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(Salon)   Some of the "bravest atheists in the country" are waging a war on Christmas. And they must be stopped   (salon.com) divider line 592
    More: Scary, Pottery Barn, St. Nick, American Atheists, religious denomination, Philadelphians, Baby Jesus, Easter Sunday, American Museum of Natural History  
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19833 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Dec 2012 at 1:30 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-23 02:19:20 PM  

bunner: Get it?


Yea, I get it:

"Waaaaaaaaahhhhh people get annoyed with me for trying to constantly throw my personal magical beliefs in their face and IT'S SO UNFAIR I CAN'T FORCE THEM TO LISTEN OR USE THEIR MONEY TO DO IT!"

I'll be sure to remember your idiotic post the next time some religious loon is on my front step bothering me about their stupid beliefs or standing on the curb outside my office littering the place with their stupid little pamphlets. Or some nut is marching up and down the street with a sign telling me god is going to make me burn if I don't go to church.

Which will be some time this week since it's farking constant.
 
2012-12-23 02:19:34 PM  

ParaHandy: It's actually a war on the Christina religion piggybacking the various winter solstice traditions. It was Saturnalia and Yule and all that long before the god botherers came around.

My personal war is against dis-information and its negative effects. All religions are disinformation, and their adherents to believe untrue myths. This is their absolute right in their private spaces and churches, but it impacts us all when they try to insert it into public life.

The billboard in Times Square is a bit unfortunate .... there is some evidence (and no, writings 400 years after the fact are not evidence) that there was a real, historical philosopher called Jesus / Issa, who was in fact crucified by the Romans. Admittedly less than there is for the existence of Paul and some others, and the Jesus in the bible may in fact be a fictional idealized amalgam of Paul and others.

Why can't they all just move into compounds?


Well put.

Here is liberal Massachusetts I have not seen any signs of a war on Christmas but I do see, from time to time, a war on science. I haven't seen any advertising by atheist but I have seen billboards by young earth creationists claiming their myths trump scientific facts. A few years back I took the kids to the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History and found that some fool was dropping creationist pamphlets on the floor all over the museum. Every one I saw I picked up and threw in the trash (boy scout training ftw!). Drive through the midwest and scan through AM radio and you are sure to find some creationist spewing psuedoscience bs. I can only imagine what it is like in the south.
 
2012-12-23 02:19:44 PM  

mediablitz: If I can't see the nativity scene at the public park while I'm driving to Walmart to support CHRISTmas, my religion will collapse!


More accurately, if my religion is no longer afforded the unjustified special privileges from the state that it had been receiving up until now, my world will collapse.
 
2012-12-23 02:19:44 PM  

Khellendros: My self worth is not determined by your stamp almanac.


Well that's encouraging.
 
2012-12-23 02:20:11 PM  

Deep Contact: Shazam999: I wonder if atheists know that many churches contain a great amount of really nice, easy pussy. Nice young pussy too.

That's why priests work there.


Link
 
2012-12-23 02:20:14 PM  
Give me a call the next time an angry mob of atheists burns someone to death because of their religion.

Anyone claiming atheism is a religion is a farking retard. Period. End of story.
 
2012-12-23 02:20:38 PM  

Repo Man: mediablitz: If I can't see the nativity scene at the public park while I'm driving to Walmart to support CHRISTmas, my religion will collapse!

More accurately, if my religion is no longer afforded the unjustified special privileges from the state that it had been receiving up until now, my world will collapse.


yes, those unjustified special privileges should be handed out equally. *snort*
 
2012-12-23 02:20:52 PM  

Rufus Lee King: If you want to be an atheist, be an atheist.

However, the "HEY, EVERYBODY!!! LOOKIT ME!!! I'M AN ATHEIST!!!" thing is best left out.

No one cares about your personal problems.


The same should go for your religious convictions as well.  Nobody gives a shiat about your relationship with Jesus/Buddha/The Almighty Cheesewhiz.  And keep that stuff out of my laws, kthnx.
 
2012-12-23 02:21:13 PM  

rko281: I'd actually be an atheist if I could somehow muster that kind of deep, unquestioning faith that I was absolutely, infallibly right and there were no other possibilities.


Great strawman.
 
2012-12-23 02:21:43 PM  

Iron Felix: Atheists who try to get all up in peoples' faces about it are just as bad as religious nuts who try to get all up in peoples' faces abut it.


I don't think that there are many atheists that get up in peoples' faces. Most simply want the religious sorts to stop getting up in their faces.

That seemed to be the focus of the first half of the article, that atheists seem to be more aggressive when they have religion forced onto them, such as prayers before government meetings, city sponsored nativity scenes, new installations of the ten commandments, the newly placing "In God we Trust" on courthouses all over Tennessee (they are trying this shiat all over Tennessee, just google it), etc...

If the religious people would simply mellow out and leave things at the status quo, the atheists would be more mellow too. But not a day goes by in the bible belt where some paster or religious zealot isn't trying to force their religious view point on others, and so atheists react.
 
2012-12-23 02:21:55 PM  

Iron Felix: Atheists who try to get all up in peoples' faces about it are just as bad as religious nuts who try to get all up in peoples' faces abut it.


Don't touch my fruit cake!
 
2012-12-23 02:22:05 PM  

letrole: letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

Abox: I don't believe in anything unfalsifiable. Is that a religion?

Another Karl Popper weenie.



You didn't answer the question.
 
2012-12-23 02:22:22 PM  

specialkae: "In small-town USA, people are much more likely to be anti-religious because they have religion thrown in their face all the time - prayers at little league, prayers at city council meetings, Nativity scenes and Ten Commandments billboards, preachers on the radio and TV, etc. - and their lack of religion is often associated with being immoral."

So much THIS. I lived in a smaller community, roughly 40K, for about 7 years. I am a Pagan, my best friend (who recently passed, sadly) was a die hard atheist. Let's just say that she and I compared notes time and time again about the discrimination and bigotry of our community over the years. Narrow minded, and sometimes very nasty people would give each of us a hard time, and don't get me started on the teasing and questioning I got from me being a person of faith and my best friend being godless. Ridiculous. I'm not one bit anti Christmas (Christians however should be aware by now that they basically co-opted beliefs of many older systems and be accepting about it) and neither was my atheist friend-she and her husband celebrated it as a secular holiday that was all about food and seeing family and friends together and rejoicing that spring would be on the way. She just got her back up, as did I, when dealing with bigoted arseholes in small town America who were utterly convinced we would be the downfall of their fair community.

/my departed godless friend was one of only a handful of people I could discuss ethics, religion and politics sensibly with
//ashes to ashes and all that


You will find the same thing everywhere. People are mean regardless of belief or political bent. It is not limited to small towns or big cities. People are simply assholes and will be judgmental and biased no matter where you live.
 
2012-12-23 02:23:01 PM  

mediablitz: Give me a call the next time an angry mob of atheists burns someone to death because of their religion.


Yeah, just last week, or was it 1630, non-believers were burned at the stake. I could be a little off on the date. then again, I'm pretty sure they repealed the laws allowing slavery, so, don't take my word for it.
 
2012-12-23 02:23:40 PM  

Repo Man: rko281: I'd actually be an atheist if I could somehow muster that kind of deep, unquestioning faith that I was absolutely, infallibly right and there were no other possibilities.

Great strawman.


No, that's sarcasm.
 
2012-12-23 02:24:58 PM  

Shazam999: So yeah, see, it's okay for you act the way you do, but heaven forbid someone acts they way you don't want them to. And forget letting people make judgements on their own - you need to protect them from what is obviously false, to you - because there's no way they're as smart as you, and therefore can't make the same judgement.


Everyone has their own belief system, so there is no practical way to have state-approved religious displays without discriminating against someone. Hence the only way to keep it clean is to keep the religious stuff where it belongs, in religious places.

Most people aren't as smart as me, that is a simple fact, and I won't apologise for it.

It is possible for a really smart person to be religious, and many draw comfort from it, but they have to be sure not to apply critical thinking to the myths of their chosen religion. My mother was a Unitarian at heart, but dragged me to the Church of Scotland as a kid. At 10 years old, I did a bit of back of the envelope on Santa's business and decided it just didn't make sense; religion ran afoul of the same problem about a year later. From the outside looking in, religions are simply ridiculous, and once you've stepped outside the bubble there really is no way back in. I am literally as incapable of believing in supernatural myths as you are in the Korean Fan Death myth.

Which of the 5,500 active major religions you follow (or none) is purely an accident of birth; humans are credulous by nature, and if you get told something often enough by adults as a child, you'll believe literally anything[1]

Religions were created by humans for a variety of purposes: the wise shaman telling the middle east tribe not to eat shellfish, which are hard to keep in a desert with no fridge, and not to mix raw and cooked food (basic food hygeine); as tools of social control for the oligarchy (Napoleon Bonaparte, the Vatican); but most often they were an attempt to understand and exert control of the world around us, much as a belief in the afterlife is a way to cheat death.

However, we have better tools for understanding and controlling the world - science and engineering. These are reliable and consistent (in the way that e.g. praying for an outcome is not) because they have a real impact in the physical world and are based on facts.

One way to view religions is a false step in the endeavour of scientific inquiry, much like phlogiston. Religion claims its authority from myths, and as these myths are disproven, then religion has to fight a rear gaurd action to protect its power (c.f. Vatican vs Galileo).


[1] here's one that stayed with me until I was 18, and comes from the world of science ... in UK schools, kids are commonly taught that water swirls down a drain from a sink or bath due to the earth's rotation. It's total BS, but even though I had the scientific background to figure that out (as of course did the teacher :) I never questioned it until encouraged to do so by a Mech Eng professor at college. I've had people with scientific degrees argue apopleptically over this point. If they can cling to a mistaken belief about science that the knowledge in their own head can easily disprove, how easy is it to adhere to a myth which is carefully periodically re-framed to avoid evidentiary tests?
 
2012-12-23 02:25:11 PM  
Almost forgot. We were at WalMart yesterday, in a big city, mind you, and there was a mob of 6-10 year olds standing outside and offering to shake people's hands. Couldn't get past the little mites although I tried to do so politely and unobtrusively. So, this one little boy offers his hand to me and after hesitating for a moment I shook it. He said, "Merry Christmas, Jesus loves you!", I turned to my old man and kind of pointed him out to the kid and said thanks, but he's the Christian, not me. I know it wasn't nice, I hope I didn't mess with the kid too much, but please don't mob me on my way out of WalMart. I know my way to a very nice Christian church should I ever choose to convert, thankyouverymuch (old man is an officer of his church and still lives in sin with me). I know the kid didn't know that, and I should've watched my tongue, but after 2 hours in WalMart, I was a little short on patience.
 
2012-12-23 02:25:20 PM  
If you're all f*cked up about people knocking up some blowmold figurines and some straw and a balsa wood hut once a year, I mean if this DEEPLY AFFECTS YOU, I'd ease up on the intellectual superiority fandango a bit.
 
2012-12-23 02:25:26 PM  

mediablitz: Anyone claiming atheism is a religion is a farking retard. Period. End of story.


I think the funniest part is that their argument is basically "you guys are so awful you're just as bad as us" and they're too dumb to even realize it.
 
2012-12-23 02:25:41 PM  

mediablitz: Give me a call the next time an angry mob of atheists burns someone to death because of their religion.


That's just sidestepping the issue. It's a way for you to cop out on all of the evil things Atheists have done and not take responsibility for it.

"It wasn't done in the name of this thing I claim I don't have therefore the evil I do commit doesn't matter"
 
2012-12-23 02:26:20 PM  

bunner: I'd ease up on the intellectual superiority fandango a bit.


Except in your case you'd need to actually develop an intellect first.
 
2012-12-23 02:26:29 PM  

Prey4reign: ParaHandy: Prey4reign: Here's an ironic fact about Christmas -- the man considered the George Washington of Pakistan, Muhammed Ali Jinnah, was born on December 25th, 1876.

Isaac Newton, one the most famous scientists ever, was also born on Xmas day.

So we're Jimmy Buffett and Shane McGowan.


We're both, because Newton's b-day? Little crowded in here. ;)
 
2012-12-23 02:27:24 PM  

ParaHandy: Most people aren't as smart as me, that is a simple fact, and I won't apologise for it.


It's hard to be this retarded, so I don't doubt that most people aren't at the same level as you. It's hard to stoop so low.
 
2012-12-23 02:27:27 PM  

fluffy2097: "It wasn't done in the name of this thing I claim I don't have therefore the evil I do commit doesn't matter"


If you have a point, why do you have to lie?
 
2012-12-23 02:27:44 PM  
Noncombatants killed and injured when atheists attack agnostic stronghold...said no headline ever.
 
2012-12-23 02:28:12 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: If you have a point, why do you have to lie?


If you have a lie, why do you have to point?

/pointing is rude.
 
2012-12-23 02:29:14 PM  

Shazam999: had98c: In this alternate world do people worship Harry Potter as a god and base their views on same sex marriage on lines from The Goblet of Fire?

Honestly, so what?

When you get older in life, you will find that a great deal of people will disagree with you on a great deal of subjects.

You live in a country where free speech is sacrosanct. So you can either live your life and enjoy it or keep griping about what other people think.

Are you sure you're not the lunatic?


People's beliefs inform their actions. When those actions have an impact on others, especially with regards to things like legal rights, I think it's perfectly reasonable to be critical of other people's beliefs.
 
2012-12-23 02:29:51 PM  
Its really all boils down to Christians feeling butthurt because we won't let them put giant statues of Jesus in front of courthouses and city halls.
 
2012-12-23 02:30:28 PM  
bunner: I AM NOT GOING TO STAND FOR ALL OF THIS STAMP COLLECTING! STAMP COLLECTORS ARE IDIOTS AND YOU CAN'T COLLECT STAMPS WITHIN 500 FEET OF ME!


Khellendros: Good straw man. It's more like "stop using public lands and resources to advocate and subsidize stamp collecting.


No dear, this isn't a strawman. It's a tidy rebuttal of an in-farking-credibly trite and sophmoronic simile that has a logical hole in it so big that you could drive a farking truck through it.

It's been thrown up by loons with a little learning like it's something new for around 80 years at least. Probably longer.
 
2012-12-23 02:30:45 PM  
Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.
 
2012-12-23 02:32:00 PM  

bunner: We used to make stuff.

We used to establish things.

Now, we just want our chance to shave a little off of what's already in place, before there's nothing left to shave.

Now, we just want to body check all the people who engage in that which we do not believe or care for out of the way so the trappings can be about US! Get that baby out of that bathwater! It's OUR turn! *snort* We're a nation of sociocultural cowbirds.


But enough about the greed on Wall Street...
 
2012-12-23 02:32:48 PM  

Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.


Hey, Hey HEY! Let's not get all out of hand here!
 
2012-12-23 02:33:45 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: But enough about the greed on Wall Street...


Perfect example. Not the one I meant, but...
 
2012-12-23 02:35:05 PM  
www.picturesandwords.co.uk
 
2012-12-23 02:35:32 PM  

Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.


Oh believe me, once Obama turns this into a Muslim nation like he wants, I will start doing that.
 
2012-12-23 02:36:52 PM  

bunner: Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.

Hey, Hey HEY! Let's not get all out of hand here!


I'm sure the atheist community will get right on that, as soon as they handle the schism over whether it's okay to ask a lady in an elevator to have coffee in your room or not.
 
2012-12-23 02:37:29 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: I think the funniest part is that their argument is basically "you guys are so awful you're just as bad as us" and they're too dumb to even realize it.


No, the argument is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't go criticizing everyone else and then declare that you yourself cannot be criticized.
 
2012-12-23 02:38:05 PM  
letrole: Atheism is a Religion.
Abox: I don't believe in anything unfalsifiable. Is that a religion?
letrole: Another Karl Popper weenie.
Abox: You didn't answer the question.

Are you Yoda? Are you The Riddler? Are you YAKPW - Yet Another Karl Popper Weenie?
 
2012-12-23 02:38:06 PM  
On the bright side, we can take some enjoyment in the fact that a number of these evangelical atheist will off themselves at some point between now and Valentine's Day.
 
2012-12-23 02:38:22 PM  

bunner: If you're all f*cked up about people knocking up some blowmold figurines and some straw and a balsa wood hut once a year, I mean if this DEEPLY AFFECTS YOU, I'd ease up on the intellectual superiority fandango a bit.


Says somebody who would never, ever complain about billboards with Atheist sayings.

Give it a rest; we've heard this song and dance many, many times before.
 
2012-12-23 02:39:00 PM  
www.faithmouse.com
 
2012-12-23 02:39:16 PM  

Gosling: No, the argument is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't go criticizing everyone else and then declare that you yourself cannot be criticized.


Excuse me, I was going to add something here but the elephant in the room is taking up all the air.
 
2012-12-23 02:39:19 PM  
Maybe everyone should join the church of Stop being Dicks.
 
2012-12-23 02:39:24 PM  

david_gaithersburg: On the bright side, we can take some enjoyment in the fact that a number of these evangelical atheist will off themselves at some point between now and Valentine's Day.


WTF?
 
2012-12-23 02:39:42 PM  

Rufus Lee King: Seriously, though, you "atheist" types: what's the deal with trying to rain on people's parades? It's infantile, and speaks volumes about you. Shut the f__k up.


Why? Should I also tell you that 2+2 is not 5, or that lower taxes for the rich won't help the economy?

The First Amendment gives you the right to spout religious nonsense, and me to call you on it. Welcome to the land of the semi-free.
 
2012-12-23 02:40:04 PM  

bunner: The My Little Pony Killer: But enough about the greed on Wall Street...

Perfect example. Not the one I meant, but...


Perhaps you should say a little more of what you mean then.

Oh wait, this entire thread is filled up with that.
 
2012-12-23 02:40:15 PM  

Fark Dupp: [guitarsandaudio.com image 500x375]


I disagree. No one can really know whether or not there's a god, so acting like you're absolutely sure about it one way or the other is a belief. To use your analogy, having the TV off would be someone who doesn't think about and/or care whether or not there's a god.
 
2012-12-23 02:40:26 PM  

rko281: I'd actually be an atheist if I could somehow muster that kind of deep, unquestioning faith that I was absolutely, infallibly right and there were no other possibilities.


It's not faith, it's knowlege. It's what you can prove. There never has been proof of any higher power.

It's has never been on the Atheist to prove a negative, it's alway up to those who believe something exist, to show evidence.

" the other possibility" leads to Allah, Zeus, Satan, Great Father, Harry Potter and Superman.
 
2012-12-23 02:40:44 PM  

Rufus Lee King: First, no one is trying to "oppress" you, or anything of that nature.


Then let's talk about fetuses, shall we?
 
2012-12-23 02:41:39 PM  
When the Christians attacked gays, they stopped being Christian.
 
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