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(Salon)   Some of the "bravest atheists in the country" are waging a war on Christmas. And they must be stopped   (salon.com ) divider line
    More: Scary, Pottery Barn, St. Nick, American Atheists, religious denomination, Philadelphians, Baby Jesus, Easter Sunday, American Museum of Natural History  
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19854 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Dec 2012 at 1:30 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-23 01:53:24 PM  

Prey4reign: Here's an ironic fact about Christmas -- the man considered the George Washington of Pakistan, Muhammed Ali Jinnah, was born on December 25th, 1876.


Isaac Newton, one the most famous scientists ever, was also born on Xmas day.
 
2012-12-23 01:53:49 PM  

ToxicMunkee: This year the Christmas season started before most people were done eating their Thanksgiving dinner. The War on Christmas is a lie.


This is exactly right. Christmas is probably the most powerful phenomenon in Western culture. It is a social and commercial juggernaut.

Christmas drives decision-making and scheduling within a huge number of industries, touching all retail sectors, travel, movies, music, all forms of entertainment really...shipping, food, etc.

And consider the number of businesses in the Americas, Europe, and down under that simply shut-down for the week, a huge number of factories, offices, warehouses, agencies, that are just closed for a week (or more!).

Every school in Christendom, closed.

The impact of Christmas on our society - even beyond the huge amount of cultural and sentimental significance, and the huge amount of creative energy devoted to it - is probably too big to be measured. What would the transactional value of Christmas be? The absolute dollar value of all the plusses and minuses? 100's of billions? More than a trillion?

Americans were shocked that nearly $2B was spent on this year's Presidential election. Americans spend nearly $1B dollars on candy canes EVERY YEAR.

No group of atheists could ever hope to make a dent. It's so strange to us in fact, that discussing it is considered newsworthy!
 
2012-12-23 01:54:13 PM  

St_Francis_P: Dead for Tax Reasons: ToxicMunkee: This year the Christmas season started before most people were done eating their Thanksgiving dinner. The War on Christmas is a lie.

Thanksgiving?

Halloween is starting to feel threatened

Can Decemberween be far behind?


I blame the Pumpkin king.
 
2012-12-23 01:55:09 PM  

ParaHandy: Prey4reign: Here's an ironic fact about Christmas -- the man considered the George Washington of Pakistan, Muhammed Ali Jinnah, was born on December 25th, 1876.

Isaac Newton, one the most famous scientists ever, was also born on Xmas day.


So we're Jimmy Buffett and Shane McGowan.
 
2012-12-23 01:55:35 PM  

UsikFark: Man, I want Christmas sex. Stupid protestant moral crusaders.


I hear subby's mom is available.
 
2012-12-23 01:56:25 PM  

gad: Atheists are doing what they need to do to be heard and to gain some position in the society.


Why? what has "society" fixed lately? What has it enforced that it should? Where has evolved positively? What has it sone well or improved upon? I think that everybody who has picked up their chosen Certificate of Disenfranchisement™ actually thinks that there's some dandy, Über normal cocktail party going on somewhere and that as soon as they have successfully pissed and moaned and marched for "ABSOLUTE, UNQUESTIONING, UNCONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE", that they'll be patted on the back and given a comfy chair and a martini. I hate to piss in your petunias, but the nebulous construct of "the people who run things" is astoundingly inaccurate, has nothing to do with religion, sexuality or color and they still ain't going to like you and most of them don't like each other. So stop trying to get a gold star from the people you insist oppress and loathe you. It makes you look silly.
 
2012-12-23 01:58:31 PM  

letrole: Atheism is a Religion.


Religion is an Atheism.
 
2012-12-23 01:58:48 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: UsikFark: Man, I want Christmas sex. Stupid protestant moral crusaders.

I hear subby's mom is available.


I don't do charity.
 
2012-12-23 01:59:12 PM  

bunner: gad: Atheists are doing what they need to do to be heard and to gain some position in the society.

Why? what has "society" fixed lately? What has it enforced that it should? Where has evolved positively? What has it sone well or improved upon? I think that everybody who has picked up their chosen Certificate of Disenfranchisement™ actually thinks that there's some dandy, Über normal cocktail party going on somewhere and that as soon as they have successfully pissed and moaned and marched for "ABSOLUTE, UNQUESTIONING, UNCONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE", that they'll be patted on the back and given a comfy chair and a martini. I hate to piss in your petunias, but the nebulous construct of "the people who run things" is astoundingly inaccurate, has nothing to do with religion, sexuality or color and they still ain't going to like you and most of them don't like each other. So stop trying to get a gold star from the people you insist oppress and loathe you. It makes you look silly.


You forgot 'how is babby formed'!
 
2012-12-23 01:59:15 PM  
I would bet that the most militant and reactionary atheists are generally those who were brought up with religion. This is of course based on my own anecdotal experience. Everyone that I know who has been brought up agnostic/atheist/secular celebrates Christmas with their families and lets religion alone. The real reactionaries I know were those who were brought up religious and later rejected it.

Does anyone know if this correlation has been shown to exist?
 
2012-12-23 01:59:46 PM  
gad: Atheists are doing what they need to do to be heard and to gain some position in the society.

bunner: So stop trying to get a gold star from the people you insist oppress and loathe you. It makes you look silly.

Atheists demand respect and expect acceptance of their beliefs. Atheists feel dirty inside. All the anger, the forced arrogance, the belligerence -- it's simply shame turned inside out.
 
2012-12-23 02:00:13 PM  
Whats wrong with celebrating the winter solstice with gifts decorated trees and music?

People have been doing this sort of thing long before Jesus was born
 
2012-12-23 02:00:23 PM  

ccundiff: I would bet that the most militant and reactionary atheists are generally those who were brought up with religion. This is of course based on my own anecdotal experience. Everyone that I know who has been brought up agnostic/atheist/secular celebrates Christmas with their families and lets religion alone. The real reactionaries I know were those who were brought up religious and later rejected it.

Does anyone know if this correlation has been shown to exist?


It seems it has, as has been mentioned in this thread. Equal and opposite reaction.
 
2012-12-23 02:00:27 PM  

Rufus Lee King: If you want to be an atheist, be an atheist.

However, the "HEY, EVERYBODY!!! LOOKIT ME!!! I'M AN ATHEIST!!!" thing is best left out.

No one cares about your personal problems.


You mean like all those fine folks who can't speak a sentence without a "praise the lord" or somesuch included?
 
2012-12-23 02:01:42 PM  

Allen. The end.: You forgot 'how is babby formed'!


No, you're just oppressing me for my alternative typing style. Ever notice how memes allow you to dismiss somebody out of hand by just being a schoolyard smartass? At least they're supposed to. : )
 
2012-12-23 02:02:20 PM  
Who cares about atheist county yokels?
 
2012-12-23 02:02:38 PM  
St_Francis_P:

And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?


Speaking as a religion-hating atheist, I really don't care what people believe. What bothers me being beaten up by commercialism: I'd rather those few "Christians" who really care about the alleged birthday of their man-god do all they can to make the yearly shopping frenzy unfashionable.

Have your candlelit services, pass out Advent calendars, pray in public (as long as its voluntary: you don't want us to force you NOT to pray, do you?), wish each other (and even me) any goddamn thing you want, but for chrissake stop shopping if you truly love Jesus! You're welcome to picket against "Xmas shopping" in the public areas of shopping malls: I'll defend to the death your right to do so, I might even join you with a sign reading "An atheist against Xmas SHOPPING." And hey, if anarchists can break windows at Starbuck's then y'all can trash a Macy's for all I care. As long as you don't make celebrating the birth of your savior mandatory, please please please contrast religious observance with all that worship of Mammon.

And don't get me started on the goyification of Hanukkah. If there is no Jewish holiday where gift-giving is holy then there are always a few hundred secular days to do it on: every Jew has a birthday, for example, even if s/he's not the messiah.

SHOP LESS, PRAY MORE!
 
2012-12-23 02:03:47 PM  

The One True TheDavid: St_Francis_P:

And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Speaking as a religion-hating atheist, I really don't care what people believe. What bothers me being beaten up by commercialism: I'd rather those few "Christians" who really care about the alleged birthday of their man-god do all they can to make the yearly shopping frenzy unfashionable.

Have your candlelit services, pass out Advent calendars, pray in public (as long as its voluntary: you don't want us to force you NOT to pray, do you?), wish each other (and even me) any goddamn thing you want, but for chrissake stop shopping if you truly love Jesus! You're welcome to picket against "Xmas shopping" in the public areas of shopping malls: I'll defend to the death your right to do so, I might even join you with a sign reading "An atheist against Xmas SHOPPING." And hey, if anarchists can break windows at Starbuck's then y'all can trash a Macy's for all I care. As long as you don't make celebrating the birth of your savior mandatory, please please please contrast religious observance with all that worship of Mammon.

And don't get me started on the goyification of Hanukkah. If there is no Jewish holiday where gift-giving is holy then there are always a few hundred secular days to do it on: every Jew has a birthday, for example, even if s/he's not the messiah.

SHOP LESS, PRAY MORE!


Wow, the wargarbble is strong in this one. You really need a hobby.
 
2012-12-23 02:04:02 PM  

letrole: Atheism is a Religion.


Le Troll, eh? I'll bite anyway, I"m bored.

Christianity is a religion. Theism is a belief in a deity, a trait many religions have.

Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity. Some religions are atheistic, but atheism itself is not a religion. It's like saying stamp collecting is a hobby, therefore not collecting stamps is also a hobby.
 
2012-12-23 02:04:13 PM  
Medic Zero: You mean like all those fine folks who can't speak a sentence without a "praise the lord" or somesuch included?

I'm going to make a guess here and say that they don't let you go out very much, but you do get to watch a lot of old simpsons and family guy reruns.
 
2012-12-23 02:04:59 PM  
We used to make stuff.

We used to establish things.

Now, we just want our chance to shave a little off of what's already in place, before there's nothing left to shave.

Now, we just want to body check all the people who engage in that which we do not believe or care for out of the way so the trappings can be about US! Get that baby out of that bathwater! It's OUR turn! *snort* We're a nation of sociocultural cowbirds.
 
2012-12-23 02:05:18 PM  
people who can't find anything to live for always invent something to die for
then they want the rest of us to die for it too
 
2012-12-23 02:05:38 PM  

Gato Blanco: Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity. Some religions are atheistic, but atheism itself is not a religion. It's like saying stamp collecting is a hobby, therefore not collecting stamps is also a hobby.


Not stamp collecting is not a hobby.

But going around and telling everyone all about how you don't collect stamps is a hobby.
 
2012-12-23 02:06:08 PM  

bunner: Allen. The end.: You forgot 'how is babby formed'!

No, you're just oppressing me for my alternative typing style. Ever notice how memes allow you to dismiss somebody out of hand by just being a schoolyard smartass? At least they're supposed to. : )


Hey, there was no schoolyard for me! I was off at home school, learning about the REAL deal! Or, er, something...
 
2012-12-23 02:06:14 PM  

Rufus Lee King: Seriously, though, you "atheist" types: what's the deal with trying to rain on people's parades? It's infantile, and speaks volumes about you. Shut the f__k up.



Ahh, Christians. Demonstrating why there have to be "militant atheists."

Seriously, shut the fark up. Because you are a bad example for whatever it is you believe. As in, "If Rufus is an example of a Christian, I'll be something else, because those people are dicks."
 
2012-12-23 02:06:33 PM  

St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?


Because they're douchebags trying to stop a reason to party. They want to destroy other people's fun, for no better reason than 'the character is fictional'.

Imagine a world where people everywhere celebrated 'Harry Potter's Birthday', and parents decorated their houses in Hogwarts dioramas and lit-up Whomping Willows, and the kids got gifts from a guy dressed as Dumbledore. Now imagine how big of an a-hole you'd need to be to complain that the parties should stop because 'Harry Potter' doesn't exist, and to erect billboards mocking Harry Potter's Birthday parties. Well, that's how these 'atheist' (more accurately, 'anti-theists') look.
 
2012-12-23 02:07:46 PM  

Gato Blanco: It's like saying stamp collecting is a hobby, therefore not collecting stamps is also a hobby.


us.123rf.com

I AM NOT GOING TO STAND FOR ALL OF THIS STAMP COLLECTING! STAMP COLLECTORS ARE IDIOTS AND YOU CAN'T COLLECT STAMPS WITHIN 500 FEET OF ME!



Get it?
 
2012-12-23 02:11:14 PM  

St_Francis_P: Vodka Zombie: St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Because JESUS!!!

You're right, of course. Atheists never stop to consider Jesus.


I think atheists stop to consider Jesus more than most Christians. They're constantly considering how stupid they think everyone is for believing in him and how smart they are for not buying into it.

It's great that hardcore theists and atheists are constantly at each other's throats, because they're essentially the same. They're both so terrified of the incomprehensible nature of our reality that they just decide they know things that they really don't (and can't at least while they're still alive). Then they have to constantly tell everyone about how they "get it" to keep all of the doubt at arm's length.

/Can't we all just get along?
 
2012-12-23 02:11:18 PM  

vpb:

"Here's the bottom line: Where religion is weak, atheism is weak" in its intensity, says Pitzer sociologist Phil Zuckerman. "Where religion is strong, atheism is strong."

This organized Atheism thing is just a reaction to obnoxious bible thumpers.


True enough.

But there are areas where atheist commies and bible-thumpers can cooperate: crusading against Xmas shopping is one. Nobody who truly loves Jesus would be caught dead shopping on Black Friday, let alone Thanksgiving. Do you worship Jesus or Geoffrey the Giraffe?

Please please please make Christmas a religious holiday again.
 
2012-12-23 02:11:22 PM  
I wonder if atheists know that many churches contain a great amount of really nice, easy pussy. Nice young pussy too.
 
2012-12-23 02:11:59 PM  

kingoomieiii: I really hope they come through. Christmas farking blows. An entire perfectly good week, destroyed.


Maybe they'll win next year and then I won't have to go visit family. Holiday obligations can suck.
 
2012-12-23 02:12:22 PM  

gerrymander: St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Because they're douchebags trying to stop a reason to party. They want to destroy other people's fun, for no better reason than 'the character is fictional'.

Imagine a world where people everywhere celebrated 'Harry Potter's Birthday', and parents decorated their houses in Hogwarts dioramas and lit-up Whomping Willows, and the kids got gifts from a guy dressed as Dumbledore. Now imagine how big of an a-hole you'd need to be to complain that the parties should stop because 'Harry Potter' doesn't exist, and to erect billboards mocking Harry Potter's Birthday parties. Well, that's how these 'atheist' (more accurately, 'anti-theists') look.


In this alternate world do people worship Harry Potter as a god and base their views on same sex marriage on lines from The Goblet of Fire?
 
2012-12-23 02:12:24 PM  
If I can't see the nativity scene at the public park while I'm driving to Walmart to support CHRISTmas, my religion will collapse!
 
2012-12-23 02:12:27 PM  
guitarsandaudio.com
 
2012-12-23 02:13:00 PM  

letrole: gad: Atheists are doing what they need to do to be heard and to gain some position in the society.

bunner: So stop trying to get a gold star from the people you insist oppress and loathe you. It makes you look silly.

Atheists demand respect and expect acceptance of their beliefs. Atheists feel dirty inside. All the anger, the forced arrogance, the belligerence -- it's simply shame turned inside out.


NIce
 
2012-12-23 02:13:12 PM  

had98c: In this alternate world do people worship Harry Potter as a god and base their views on same sex marriage on lines from The Goblet of Fire?


People have listed 'Jedi' as a religion, so...
 
2012-12-23 02:13:48 PM  

Shazam999: I wonder if atheists know that many churches contain a great amount of really nice, easy pussy. Nice young pussy too.


That's why priests work there.
 
2012-12-23 02:13:49 PM  
I'd actually be an atheist if I could somehow muster that kind of deep, unquestioning faith that I was absolutely, infallibly right and there were no other possibilities.
 
2012-12-23 02:14:34 PM  

letrole: Atheism is a Religion.



I don't believe in anything unfalsifiable. Is that a religion?
 
2012-12-23 02:14:44 PM  

had98c: In this alternate world do people worship Harry Potter as a god and base their views on same sex marriage on lines from The Goblet of Fire?


Honestly, so what?

When you get older in life, you will find that a great deal of people will disagree with you on a great deal of subjects.

You live in a country where free speech is sacrosanct. So you can either live your life and enjoy it or keep griping about what other people think.

Are you sure you're not the lunatic?
 
2012-12-23 02:14:46 PM  

Fark Dupp: [guitarsandaudio.com image 500x375]


Here, let me shut your TeeVee off and demonstrate how stupid you are to watch it when it's on. "Cheetos are cheese like margarine is butter." Wait, no.. um, "dresses are pants like.." Wait, hang on..
 
2012-12-23 02:15:02 PM  
"In small-town USA, people are much more likely to be anti-religious because they have religion thrown in their face all the time - prayers at little league, prayers at city council meetings, Nativity scenes and Ten Commandments billboards, preachers on the radio and TV, etc. - and their lack of religion is often associated with being immoral."

So much THIS. I lived in a smaller community, roughly 40K, for about 7 years. I am a Pagan, my best friend (who recently passed, sadly) was a die hard atheist. Let's just say that she and I compared notes time and time again about the discrimination and bigotry of our community over the years. Narrow minded, and sometimes very nasty people would give each of us a hard time, and don't get me started on the teasing and questioning I got from me being a person of faith and my best friend being godless. Ridiculous. I'm not one bit anti Christmas (Christians however should be aware by now that they basically co-opted beliefs of many older systems and be accepting about it) and neither was my atheist friend-she and her husband celebrated it as a secular holiday that was all about food and seeing family and friends together and rejoicing that spring would be on the way. She just got her back up, as did I, when dealing with bigoted arseholes in small town America who were utterly convinced we would be the downfall of their fair community.

/my departed godless friend was one of only a handful of people I could discuss ethics, religion and politics sensibly with
//ashes to ashes and all that
 
2012-12-23 02:15:21 PM  

Deep Contact: Shazam999: I wonder if atheists know that many churches contain a great amount of really nice, easy pussy. Nice young pussy too.

That's why priests work there.


Pfft, they ain't after the pussy.
 
2012-12-23 02:15:47 PM  

gerrymander: St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Because they're douchebags trying to stop a reason to party. They want to destroy other people's fun, for no better reason than 'the character is fictional'.

Imagine a world where people everywhere celebrated 'Harry Potter's Birthday', and parents decorated their houses in Hogwarts dioramas and lit-up Whomping Willows, and the kids got gifts from a guy dressed as Dumbledore. Now imagine how big of an a-hole you'd need to be to complain that the parties should stop because 'Harry Potter' doesn't exist, and to erect billboards mocking Harry Potter's Birthday parties. Well, that's how these 'atheist' (more accurately, 'anti-theists') look.


Good ^
 
2012-12-23 02:16:07 PM  

Shazam999: You live in a country where free speech is sacrosanct


Hell, we even have zones for it. Step back from the tree bark, y'all. There's a forest fire.
 
2012-12-23 02:17:02 PM  
cdn.chud.com

I want to believe!
 
2012-12-23 02:17:20 PM  

Rufus Lee King: If you want to be an atheist, be an atheist.

However, the "HEY, EVERYBODY!!! LOOKIT ME!!! I'M AN ATHEIST!!!" thing is best left out.

No one cares about your personal problems.


Who said it was a problem?

Use your "screaming out your beliefs" observations towards religious people too.
 
2012-12-23 02:18:02 PM  
/r/atheism must be at it again.

/you will believe the one true religion of having no religion.
 
2012-12-23 02:18:21 PM  
letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

Abox: I don't believe in anything unfalsifiable. Is that a religion?

Another Karl Popper weenie.
 
2012-12-23 02:18:31 PM  

bunner: I AM NOT GOING TO STAND FOR ALL OF THIS STAMP COLLECTING! STAMP COLLECTORS ARE IDIOTS AND YOU CAN'T COLLECT STAMPS WITHIN 500 FEET OF ME!


Get it?


Good straw man. It's more like "stop using public lands and resources to advocate and subsidize stamp collecting. Stop giving stamp collector shops tax exempt status when they use that money to lobby for stamp collecting regulation repeal. Also, I'm tired of getting shiat from stamp collectors for not collecting stamps. My self worth is not determined by your stamp almanac."
 
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