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(Salon)   Some of the "bravest atheists in the country" are waging a war on Christmas. And they must be stopped   (salon.com) divider line 592
    More: Scary, Pottery Barn, St. Nick, American Atheists, religious denomination, Philadelphians, Baby Jesus, Easter Sunday, American Museum of Natural History  
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19827 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Dec 2012 at 1:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-23 08:23:56 AM
And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?
 
2012-12-23 08:39:38 AM

St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?


Because JESUS!!!
 
2012-12-23 08:50:55 AM
Hey, Christians. Rampant commercialism destroyed Christmas long before atheists even bothered to care.
 
2012-12-23 08:51:24 AM

Vodka Zombie: St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Because JESUS!!!


You're right, of course. Atheists never stop to consider Jesus.
 
2012-12-23 09:01:06 AM
I really hope they come through. Christmas farking blows. An entire perfectly good week, destroyed.
 
2012-12-23 09:05:12 AM
We atheists get the blame for everything bad that happens. The talking head fungelicals were on TV mere hours after some nut bag shoots up a school, to say it was our fault. F*ck them, they are what is wrong with this world, not the people who value reason over superstition. I have no respect for magical thinking, it is wrong and dangerous.
 
2012-12-23 09:09:53 AM
That argument makes a lot of sense. When you live down here, you really do feel threatened just for being nonreligious and are treated as a threat by supposedly good Christians who hate you.
 
2012-12-23 09:27:38 AM

GAT_00: That argument makes a lot of sense. When you live down here, you really do feel threatened just for being nonreligious and are treated as a threat by supposedly good Christians who hate you.


There's several passages in the King James bible about killing heathens.

You should be lucky they suck at Christianity because of the first amendment.
 
2012-12-23 09:28:33 AM

swaniefrmreddeer: fungelicals


Fun evangelicals? Do they have cake, play games, have great picnics with clowns and stuff?

I may have to take another look at this Christianity thing...
 
2012-12-23 09:41:23 AM

phaseolus: swaniefrmreddeer: fungelicals

Fun evangelicals? Do they have cake, play games, have great picnics with clowns and stuff?

I may have to take another look at this Christianity thing...


Cakes and picnics, yes, clowns are agents of Satan, so they're out. Is booze stuff? If it is, it's out too. It's just not Christmas without getting a good drunk on.
 
2012-12-23 10:03:25 AM
swaniefrmreddeerDoesn't sound like they're much fun after all. I don't think I will take another look. Thanks!
 
2012-12-23 10:06:30 AM

phaseolus: swaniefrmreddeerDoesn't sound like they're much fun after all. I don't think I will take another look. Thanks!


What you want is the neopagans. Preferably Druids.

They're know for sittin' naked in the woods drinkin' strange fermented fluids.
 
2012-12-23 10:48:42 AM
This year the Christmas season started before most people were done eating their Thanksgiving dinner. The War on Christmas is a lie.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-23 12:32:44 PM
"Here's the bottom line: Where religion is weak, atheism is weak" in its intensity, says Pitzer sociologist Phil Zuckerman. "Where religion is strong, atheism is strong."

This organized Atheism thing is just a reaction to obnoxious bible thumpers.
 
2012-12-23 12:42:47 PM
I think the real takeaway from this article is that, once again, the heavily-populated areas of this country are the best places to live.
 
2012-12-23 01:02:07 PM

Vodka Zombie: St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Because JESUS!!!


You've got to remember the reason for the season.

feyboy.com

Drunken debauched violence-filled sex for everyone.
 
2012-12-23 01:11:52 PM

ToxicMunkee: This year the Christmas season started before most people were done eating their Thanksgiving dinner. The War on Christmas is a lie.


Thanksgiving?

Halloween is starting to feel threatened
 
2012-12-23 01:15:56 PM

Dead for Tax Reasons: ToxicMunkee: This year the Christmas season started before most people were done eating their Thanksgiving dinner. The War on Christmas is a lie.

Thanksgiving?

Halloween is starting to feel threatened


Can Decemberween be far behind?
 
2012-12-23 01:34:55 PM
FTA: What's more, most American nonbelievers are not even atheists

Um, no. Most non-religious Americans might not be atheists, but if you are nonbeliever, you are, by definition, an atheist.
 
2012-12-23 01:36:59 PM
I'm an atheist, and I have no problem with Christmas.
 
2012-12-23 01:37:42 PM
They don't really seem pro-atheist as they mostly anti-religion.
 
2012-12-23 01:39:12 PM
I think Christians will find that there's a war against their superstitious nonsense, and against psychic hooey, flim-flam of all sorts, and fraud.

However, their brand of nonsense is In Charge of Things, and that's what must be stopped. Any time your leaders make decisions hedged by "but there's this sky wizard and he'll make sure everything turns out okay", you have problems when said sky wizard fails to show.
 
2012-12-23 01:40:34 PM

Bhruic: FTA: What's more, most American nonbelievers are not even atheists

Um, no. Most non-religious Americans might not be atheists, but if you are nonbeliever, you are, by definition, an atheist.


Or agnostic, or non-theist, or Laveyan Satanists even. There are many types of non-believers.
 
2012-12-23 01:40:41 PM
Enjoy your stay in hades...
 
2012-12-23 01:41:17 PM
Ahhh, another hate speech thread.
 
2012-12-23 01:41:56 PM
Can't we all just get along shut the fark up about it already?
 
2012-12-23 01:42:20 PM

RexTalionis: Hey, Christians. Rampant commercialism destroyed Christmas long before atheists even bothered to care.


Oh, that sounds a terrible bother. Do go on at length at the travails and tribulations of trying to EDUCATE the poor Jesus idiots. *snort* Take away the smirk and the down the nose harrumph and the atheist "movement" looks a lot like a bunch of kids playing "Oh, nuh UH!, *I* am smarter!" As if staunch non-belief in something had some air of inherent intellectual credibility about it. It doesn't. Would that not be be interesting if it did?
 
2012-12-23 01:42:39 PM

Shazam999: They don't really seem pro-atheist as they mostly anti-religion.


That'd be me. Faith is cool but keep your religion over there.
 
2012-12-23 01:43:01 PM
All the bible thumpers need to do is to have a miracle occur during prime time viewing hours.
 
2012-12-23 01:43:10 PM

Theonceovertwice: I'm an atheist, and I have no problem with Christmas.


Agnostic, but this.

The 90% of atheists who act like expressions of other peoples belief is a supernatural force that will harm them make the reasonable 10% look bad.
 
2012-12-23 01:44:12 PM
Christmas is pretty much a secular holiday anyway.

It celebrates when Santa died on the cross to give you eternal low low doorbuster prices.
 
2012-12-23 01:44:32 PM

ToxicMunkee: This year the Christmas season started before most people were done eating their Thanksgiving dinner. The War on Christmas is a lie.


That's been every year since I can remember. (See: commercials during sad Detroit Lions football game.) As mentioned above, it started before Halloween this year, at least in central Florida.
 
2012-12-23 01:45:57 PM
Atheists who try to get all up in peoples' faces about it are just as bad as religious nuts who try to get all up in peoples' faces abut it.
 
2012-12-23 01:47:14 PM

GAT_00: That argument makes a lot of sense. When you live down here, you really do feel threatened just for being nonreligious and are treated as a threat by supposedly good Christians who hate you.


Nonreligious is all well and good, but what i think a lot of atheists don't realize is that even though they don't have a religion of their own, they exhibit so many of the mannerisms of religion- telling all who will listen of the benefits of atheism, trying to convert people to atheism- that they are effectively treated as a religion. It's the same basic idea as Jon Stewart saying he's not a journalist. Yeah, Jon, you kind of are.

I put up a blog post with further thoughts on the topic a few days ago, using Penn Jillette as my foil.
 
2012-12-23 01:47:27 PM

Bhruic: FTA: What's more, most American nonbelievers are not even atheists

Um, no. Most non-religious Americans might not be atheists, but if you are nonbeliever, you are, by definition, an atheist.


What if they are agnostic?
 
2012-12-23 01:47:41 PM

Iron Felix: Atheists who try to get all up in peoples' faces about it are just as bad as religious nuts who try to get all up in peoples' faces abut it.


Weird how people are people, no matter the particular clique they associate with.
 
2012-12-23 01:48:17 PM
Man, I want Christmas sex. Stupid protestant moral crusaders.
 
gad
2012-12-23 01:49:39 PM
The only people who 'must be stopped' are people who don't like the beliefs of others and who think they 'must be stopped' - Atheists are doing what they need to do to be heard and to gain some position in the society. Rather than continuing to let the religious folks define atheists and telling their children that atheists are bad and evil, we're out there befuddling fundamentalists by our existence and by our being normal folks - putting the lie to the hate mongering of religious folks. Like gay marriage and democrats - you all need to just learn to deal with us all not being like you and not hiding in the corner or the closet where you can slander us all with impunity.
 
2012-12-23 01:50:39 PM
It's actually a war on the Christina religion piggybacking the various winter solstice traditions. It was Saturnalia and Yule and all that long before the god botherers came around.

My personal war is against dis-information and its negative effects. All religions are disinformation, and their adherents to believe untrue myths. This is their absolute right in their private spaces and churches, but it impacts us all when they try to insert it into public life.

The billboard in Times Square is a bit unfortunate .... there is some evidence (and no, writings 400 years after the fact are not evidence) that there was a real, historical philosopher called Jesus / Issa, who was in fact crucified by the Romans. Admittedly less than there is for the existence of Paul and some others, and the Jesus in the bible may in fact be a fictional idealized amalgam of Paul and others.

Why can't they all just move into compounds?
 
2012-12-23 01:50:54 PM
*rtfa*

That phenomena is known as "overcompensation," and I can't say I necessarily disagree with it. You have to push as hard against the wind as the wind pushes against you.
 
2012-12-23 01:51:10 PM

Gosling: telling all who will listen of the benefits of atheism, trying to convert people to atheism


If that's your criteria for a religion, just about everything is a religion. Every product advertised on your TV is a religion, here's the benefits of the Ford Focus and why you should convert from your stupid Toyota.
 
2012-12-23 01:51:30 PM
Here's an ironic fact about Christmas -- the man considered the George Washington of Pakistan, Muhammed Ali Jinnah, was born on December 25th, 1876.
 
2012-12-23 01:51:40 PM

Iron Felix: Atheists who try to get all up in peoples' faces about it are just as bad as religious nuts who try to get all up in peoples' faces abut it.


<img src="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/

Oh. Wait. I see. You see. I see you see what you did there.
 
2012-12-23 01:51:56 PM

RexTalionis: Hey, Christians. Rampant commercialism destroyed Christmas long before atheists even bothered to care.


Done in three.
 
2012-12-23 01:52:01 PM
Atheism is a Religion.
 
2012-12-23 01:52:20 PM

BronyMedic: Vodka Zombie: St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Because JESUS!!!

You've got to remember the reason for the season.
[feyboy.com image 467x256]
Drunken debauched violence-filled sex for everyone.


Actually.... the real reason for the season...
scienceblogs.com
 
2012-12-23 01:52:24 PM

vpb: "Here's the bottom line: Where religion is weak, atheism is weak" in its intensity, says Pitzer sociologist Phil Zuckerman. "Where religion is strong, atheism is strong."

This organized Atheism thing is just a reaction to obnoxious bible thumpers.


Or, the desire and/or need for an organized religion is independent of actual beliefs and in areas where the culture instils such a social need people will participate in these organizations.
 
2012-12-23 01:52:30 PM
I just want to point out that some of the most obnoxious christians are the passive aggressive ones who say things like "I'm asking God to give me the heart to forgive someone here who did me wrong..." at social gatherings while looking in one particular person's direction.
 
2012-12-23 01:52:39 PM

david_gaithersburg: Ahhh, another hate speech thread.


Poor Christianity!
 
2012-12-23 01:53:22 PM

ParaHandy: My personal war is against dis-information and its negative effects. All religions are disinformation, and their adherents to believe untrue myths. This is their absolute right in their private spaces and churches, but it impacts us all when they try to insert it into public life.


So yeah, see, it's okay for you act the way you do, but heaven forbid someone acts they way you don't want them to. And forget letting people make judgements on their own - you need to protect them from what is obviously false, to you - because there's no way they're as smart as you, and therefore can't make the same judgement.
 
2012-12-23 01:53:24 PM

Prey4reign: Here's an ironic fact about Christmas -- the man considered the George Washington of Pakistan, Muhammed Ali Jinnah, was born on December 25th, 1876.


Isaac Newton, one the most famous scientists ever, was also born on Xmas day.
 
2012-12-23 01:53:49 PM

ToxicMunkee: This year the Christmas season started before most people were done eating their Thanksgiving dinner. The War on Christmas is a lie.


This is exactly right. Christmas is probably the most powerful phenomenon in Western culture. It is a social and commercial juggernaut.

Christmas drives decision-making and scheduling within a huge number of industries, touching all retail sectors, travel, movies, music, all forms of entertainment really...shipping, food, etc.

And consider the number of businesses in the Americas, Europe, and down under that simply shut-down for the week, a huge number of factories, offices, warehouses, agencies, that are just closed for a week (or more!).

Every school in Christendom, closed.

The impact of Christmas on our society - even beyond the huge amount of cultural and sentimental significance, and the huge amount of creative energy devoted to it - is probably too big to be measured. What would the transactional value of Christmas be? The absolute dollar value of all the plusses and minuses? 100's of billions? More than a trillion?

Americans were shocked that nearly $2B was spent on this year's Presidential election. Americans spend nearly $1B dollars on candy canes EVERY YEAR.

No group of atheists could ever hope to make a dent. It's so strange to us in fact, that discussing it is considered newsworthy!
 
2012-12-23 01:54:13 PM

St_Francis_P: Dead for Tax Reasons: ToxicMunkee: This year the Christmas season started before most people were done eating their Thanksgiving dinner. The War on Christmas is a lie.

Thanksgiving?

Halloween is starting to feel threatened

Can Decemberween be far behind?


I blame the Pumpkin king.
 
2012-12-23 01:55:09 PM

ParaHandy: Prey4reign: Here's an ironic fact about Christmas -- the man considered the George Washington of Pakistan, Muhammed Ali Jinnah, was born on December 25th, 1876.

Isaac Newton, one the most famous scientists ever, was also born on Xmas day.


So we're Jimmy Buffett and Shane McGowan.
 
2012-12-23 01:55:35 PM

UsikFark: Man, I want Christmas sex. Stupid protestant moral crusaders.


I hear subby's mom is available.
 
2012-12-23 01:56:25 PM

gad: Atheists are doing what they need to do to be heard and to gain some position in the society.


Why? what has "society" fixed lately? What has it enforced that it should? Where has evolved positively? What has it sone well or improved upon? I think that everybody who has picked up their chosen Certificate of Disenfranchisement™ actually thinks that there's some dandy, Über normal cocktail party going on somewhere and that as soon as they have successfully pissed and moaned and marched for "ABSOLUTE, UNQUESTIONING, UNCONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE", that they'll be patted on the back and given a comfy chair and a martini. I hate to piss in your petunias, but the nebulous construct of "the people who run things" is astoundingly inaccurate, has nothing to do with religion, sexuality or color and they still ain't going to like you and most of them don't like each other. So stop trying to get a gold star from the people you insist oppress and loathe you. It makes you look silly.
 
2012-12-23 01:58:31 PM

letrole: Atheism is a Religion.


Religion is an Atheism.
 
2012-12-23 01:58:48 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: UsikFark: Man, I want Christmas sex. Stupid protestant moral crusaders.

I hear subby's mom is available.


I don't do charity.
 
2012-12-23 01:59:12 PM

bunner: gad: Atheists are doing what they need to do to be heard and to gain some position in the society.

Why? what has "society" fixed lately? What has it enforced that it should? Where has evolved positively? What has it sone well or improved upon? I think that everybody who has picked up their chosen Certificate of Disenfranchisement™ actually thinks that there's some dandy, Über normal cocktail party going on somewhere and that as soon as they have successfully pissed and moaned and marched for "ABSOLUTE, UNQUESTIONING, UNCONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE", that they'll be patted on the back and given a comfy chair and a martini. I hate to piss in your petunias, but the nebulous construct of "the people who run things" is astoundingly inaccurate, has nothing to do with religion, sexuality or color and they still ain't going to like you and most of them don't like each other. So stop trying to get a gold star from the people you insist oppress and loathe you. It makes you look silly.


You forgot 'how is babby formed'!
 
2012-12-23 01:59:15 PM
I would bet that the most militant and reactionary atheists are generally those who were brought up with religion. This is of course based on my own anecdotal experience. Everyone that I know who has been brought up agnostic/atheist/secular celebrates Christmas with their families and lets religion alone. The real reactionaries I know were those who were brought up religious and later rejected it.

Does anyone know if this correlation has been shown to exist?
 
2012-12-23 01:59:46 PM
gad: Atheists are doing what they need to do to be heard and to gain some position in the society.

bunner: So stop trying to get a gold star from the people you insist oppress and loathe you. It makes you look silly.

Atheists demand respect and expect acceptance of their beliefs. Atheists feel dirty inside. All the anger, the forced arrogance, the belligerence -- it's simply shame turned inside out.
 
2012-12-23 02:00:13 PM
Whats wrong with celebrating the winter solstice with gifts decorated trees and music?

People have been doing this sort of thing long before Jesus was born
 
2012-12-23 02:00:23 PM

ccundiff: I would bet that the most militant and reactionary atheists are generally those who were brought up with religion. This is of course based on my own anecdotal experience. Everyone that I know who has been brought up agnostic/atheist/secular celebrates Christmas with their families and lets religion alone. The real reactionaries I know were those who were brought up religious and later rejected it.

Does anyone know if this correlation has been shown to exist?


It seems it has, as has been mentioned in this thread. Equal and opposite reaction.
 
2012-12-23 02:00:27 PM

Rufus Lee King: If you want to be an atheist, be an atheist.

However, the "HEY, EVERYBODY!!! LOOKIT ME!!! I'M AN ATHEIST!!!" thing is best left out.

No one cares about your personal problems.


You mean like all those fine folks who can't speak a sentence without a "praise the lord" or somesuch included?
 
2012-12-23 02:01:42 PM

Allen. The end.: You forgot 'how is babby formed'!


No, you're just oppressing me for my alternative typing style. Ever notice how memes allow you to dismiss somebody out of hand by just being a schoolyard smartass? At least they're supposed to. : )
 
2012-12-23 02:02:20 PM
Who cares about atheist county yokels?
 
2012-12-23 02:02:38 PM
St_Francis_P:

And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?


Speaking as a religion-hating atheist, I really don't care what people believe. What bothers me being beaten up by commercialism: I'd rather those few "Christians" who really care about the alleged birthday of their man-god do all they can to make the yearly shopping frenzy unfashionable.

Have your candlelit services, pass out Advent calendars, pray in public (as long as its voluntary: you don't want us to force you NOT to pray, do you?), wish each other (and even me) any goddamn thing you want, but for chrissake stop shopping if you truly love Jesus! You're welcome to picket against "Xmas shopping" in the public areas of shopping malls: I'll defend to the death your right to do so, I might even join you with a sign reading "An atheist against Xmas SHOPPING." And hey, if anarchists can break windows at Starbuck's then y'all can trash a Macy's for all I care. As long as you don't make celebrating the birth of your savior mandatory, please please please contrast religious observance with all that worship of Mammon.

And don't get me started on the goyification of Hanukkah. If there is no Jewish holiday where gift-giving is holy then there are always a few hundred secular days to do it on: every Jew has a birthday, for example, even if s/he's not the messiah.

SHOP LESS, PRAY MORE!
 
2012-12-23 02:03:47 PM

The One True TheDavid: St_Francis_P:

And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Speaking as a religion-hating atheist, I really don't care what people believe. What bothers me being beaten up by commercialism: I'd rather those few "Christians" who really care about the alleged birthday of their man-god do all they can to make the yearly shopping frenzy unfashionable.

Have your candlelit services, pass out Advent calendars, pray in public (as long as its voluntary: you don't want us to force you NOT to pray, do you?), wish each other (and even me) any goddamn thing you want, but for chrissake stop shopping if you truly love Jesus! You're welcome to picket against "Xmas shopping" in the public areas of shopping malls: I'll defend to the death your right to do so, I might even join you with a sign reading "An atheist against Xmas SHOPPING." And hey, if anarchists can break windows at Starbuck's then y'all can trash a Macy's for all I care. As long as you don't make celebrating the birth of your savior mandatory, please please please contrast religious observance with all that worship of Mammon.

And don't get me started on the goyification of Hanukkah. If there is no Jewish holiday where gift-giving is holy then there are always a few hundred secular days to do it on: every Jew has a birthday, for example, even if s/he's not the messiah.

SHOP LESS, PRAY MORE!


Wow, the wargarbble is strong in this one. You really need a hobby.
 
2012-12-23 02:04:02 PM

letrole: Atheism is a Religion.


Le Troll, eh? I'll bite anyway, I"m bored.

Christianity is a religion. Theism is a belief in a deity, a trait many religions have.

Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity. Some religions are atheistic, but atheism itself is not a religion. It's like saying stamp collecting is a hobby, therefore not collecting stamps is also a hobby.
 
2012-12-23 02:04:13 PM
Medic Zero: You mean like all those fine folks who can't speak a sentence without a "praise the lord" or somesuch included?

I'm going to make a guess here and say that they don't let you go out very much, but you do get to watch a lot of old simpsons and family guy reruns.
 
2012-12-23 02:04:59 PM
We used to make stuff.

We used to establish things.

Now, we just want our chance to shave a little off of what's already in place, before there's nothing left to shave.

Now, we just want to body check all the people who engage in that which we do not believe or care for out of the way so the trappings can be about US! Get that baby out of that bathwater! It's OUR turn! *snort* We're a nation of sociocultural cowbirds.
 
2012-12-23 02:05:18 PM
people who can't find anything to live for always invent something to die for
then they want the rest of us to die for it too
 
2012-12-23 02:05:38 PM

Gato Blanco: Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity. Some religions are atheistic, but atheism itself is not a religion. It's like saying stamp collecting is a hobby, therefore not collecting stamps is also a hobby.


Not stamp collecting is not a hobby.

But going around and telling everyone all about how you don't collect stamps is a hobby.
 
2012-12-23 02:06:08 PM

bunner: Allen. The end.: You forgot 'how is babby formed'!

No, you're just oppressing me for my alternative typing style. Ever notice how memes allow you to dismiss somebody out of hand by just being a schoolyard smartass? At least they're supposed to. : )


Hey, there was no schoolyard for me! I was off at home school, learning about the REAL deal! Or, er, something...
 
2012-12-23 02:06:14 PM

Rufus Lee King: Seriously, though, you "atheist" types: what's the deal with trying to rain on people's parades? It's infantile, and speaks volumes about you. Shut the f__k up.



Ahh, Christians. Demonstrating why there have to be "militant atheists."

Seriously, shut the fark up. Because you are a bad example for whatever it is you believe. As in, "If Rufus is an example of a Christian, I'll be something else, because those people are dicks."
 
2012-12-23 02:06:33 PM

St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?


Because they're douchebags trying to stop a reason to party. They want to destroy other people's fun, for no better reason than 'the character is fictional'.

Imagine a world where people everywhere celebrated 'Harry Potter's Birthday', and parents decorated their houses in Hogwarts dioramas and lit-up Whomping Willows, and the kids got gifts from a guy dressed as Dumbledore. Now imagine how big of an a-hole you'd need to be to complain that the parties should stop because 'Harry Potter' doesn't exist, and to erect billboards mocking Harry Potter's Birthday parties. Well, that's how these 'atheist' (more accurately, 'anti-theists') look.
 
2012-12-23 02:07:46 PM

Gato Blanco: It's like saying stamp collecting is a hobby, therefore not collecting stamps is also a hobby.


us.123rf.com

I AM NOT GOING TO STAND FOR ALL OF THIS STAMP COLLECTING! STAMP COLLECTORS ARE IDIOTS AND YOU CAN'T COLLECT STAMPS WITHIN 500 FEET OF ME!


Get it?
 
2012-12-23 02:11:14 PM

St_Francis_P: Vodka Zombie: St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Because JESUS!!!

You're right, of course. Atheists never stop to consider Jesus.


I think atheists stop to consider Jesus more than most Christians. They're constantly considering how stupid they think everyone is for believing in him and how smart they are for not buying into it.

It's great that hardcore theists and atheists are constantly at each other's throats, because they're essentially the same. They're both so terrified of the incomprehensible nature of our reality that they just decide they know things that they really don't (and can't at least while they're still alive). Then they have to constantly tell everyone about how they "get it" to keep all of the doubt at arm's length.

/Can't we all just get along?
 
2012-12-23 02:11:18 PM

vpb:

"Here's the bottom line: Where religion is weak, atheism is weak" in its intensity, says Pitzer sociologist Phil Zuckerman. "Where religion is strong, atheism is strong."

This organized Atheism thing is just a reaction to obnoxious bible thumpers.


True enough.

But there are areas where atheist commies and bible-thumpers can cooperate: crusading against Xmas shopping is one. Nobody who truly loves Jesus would be caught dead shopping on Black Friday, let alone Thanksgiving. Do you worship Jesus or Geoffrey the Giraffe?

Please please please make Christmas a religious holiday again.
 
2012-12-23 02:11:22 PM
I wonder if atheists know that many churches contain a great amount of really nice, easy pussy. Nice young pussy too.
 
2012-12-23 02:11:59 PM

kingoomieiii: I really hope they come through. Christmas farking blows. An entire perfectly good week, destroyed.


Maybe they'll win next year and then I won't have to go visit family. Holiday obligations can suck.
 
2012-12-23 02:12:22 PM

gerrymander: St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Because they're douchebags trying to stop a reason to party. They want to destroy other people's fun, for no better reason than 'the character is fictional'.

Imagine a world where people everywhere celebrated 'Harry Potter's Birthday', and parents decorated their houses in Hogwarts dioramas and lit-up Whomping Willows, and the kids got gifts from a guy dressed as Dumbledore. Now imagine how big of an a-hole you'd need to be to complain that the parties should stop because 'Harry Potter' doesn't exist, and to erect billboards mocking Harry Potter's Birthday parties. Well, that's how these 'atheist' (more accurately, 'anti-theists') look.


In this alternate world do people worship Harry Potter as a god and base their views on same sex marriage on lines from The Goblet of Fire?
 
2012-12-23 02:12:24 PM
If I can't see the nativity scene at the public park while I'm driving to Walmart to support CHRISTmas, my religion will collapse!
 
2012-12-23 02:12:27 PM
guitarsandaudio.com
 
2012-12-23 02:13:00 PM

letrole: gad: Atheists are doing what they need to do to be heard and to gain some position in the society.

bunner: So stop trying to get a gold star from the people you insist oppress and loathe you. It makes you look silly.

Atheists demand respect and expect acceptance of their beliefs. Atheists feel dirty inside. All the anger, the forced arrogance, the belligerence -- it's simply shame turned inside out.


NIce
 
2012-12-23 02:13:12 PM

had98c: In this alternate world do people worship Harry Potter as a god and base their views on same sex marriage on lines from The Goblet of Fire?


People have listed 'Jedi' as a religion, so...
 
2012-12-23 02:13:48 PM

Shazam999: I wonder if atheists know that many churches contain a great amount of really nice, easy pussy. Nice young pussy too.


That's why priests work there.
 
2012-12-23 02:13:49 PM
I'd actually be an atheist if I could somehow muster that kind of deep, unquestioning faith that I was absolutely, infallibly right and there were no other possibilities.
 
2012-12-23 02:14:34 PM

letrole: Atheism is a Religion.



I don't believe in anything unfalsifiable. Is that a religion?
 
2012-12-23 02:14:44 PM

had98c: In this alternate world do people worship Harry Potter as a god and base their views on same sex marriage on lines from The Goblet of Fire?


Honestly, so what?

When you get older in life, you will find that a great deal of people will disagree with you on a great deal of subjects.

You live in a country where free speech is sacrosanct. So you can either live your life and enjoy it or keep griping about what other people think.

Are you sure you're not the lunatic?
 
2012-12-23 02:14:46 PM

Fark Dupp: [guitarsandaudio.com image 500x375]


Here, let me shut your TeeVee off and demonstrate how stupid you are to watch it when it's on. "Cheetos are cheese like margarine is butter." Wait, no.. um, "dresses are pants like.." Wait, hang on..
 
2012-12-23 02:15:02 PM
"In small-town USA, people are much more likely to be anti-religious because they have religion thrown in their face all the time - prayers at little league, prayers at city council meetings, Nativity scenes and Ten Commandments billboards, preachers on the radio and TV, etc. - and their lack of religion is often associated with being immoral."

So much THIS. I lived in a smaller community, roughly 40K, for about 7 years. I am a Pagan, my best friend (who recently passed, sadly) was a die hard atheist. Let's just say that she and I compared notes time and time again about the discrimination and bigotry of our community over the years. Narrow minded, and sometimes very nasty people would give each of us a hard time, and don't get me started on the teasing and questioning I got from me being a person of faith and my best friend being godless. Ridiculous. I'm not one bit anti Christmas (Christians however should be aware by now that they basically co-opted beliefs of many older systems and be accepting about it) and neither was my atheist friend-she and her husband celebrated it as a secular holiday that was all about food and seeing family and friends together and rejoicing that spring would be on the way. She just got her back up, as did I, when dealing with bigoted arseholes in small town America who were utterly convinced we would be the downfall of their fair community.

/my departed godless friend was one of only a handful of people I could discuss ethics, religion and politics sensibly with
//ashes to ashes and all that
 
2012-12-23 02:15:21 PM

Deep Contact: Shazam999: I wonder if atheists know that many churches contain a great amount of really nice, easy pussy. Nice young pussy too.

That's why priests work there.


Pfft, they ain't after the pussy.
 
2012-12-23 02:15:47 PM

gerrymander: St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Because they're douchebags trying to stop a reason to party. They want to destroy other people's fun, for no better reason than 'the character is fictional'.

Imagine a world where people everywhere celebrated 'Harry Potter's Birthday', and parents decorated their houses in Hogwarts dioramas and lit-up Whomping Willows, and the kids got gifts from a guy dressed as Dumbledore. Now imagine how big of an a-hole you'd need to be to complain that the parties should stop because 'Harry Potter' doesn't exist, and to erect billboards mocking Harry Potter's Birthday parties. Well, that's how these 'atheist' (more accurately, 'anti-theists') look.


Good ^
 
2012-12-23 02:16:07 PM

Shazam999: You live in a country where free speech is sacrosanct


Hell, we even have zones for it. Step back from the tree bark, y'all. There's a forest fire.
 
2012-12-23 02:17:02 PM
cdn.chud.com

I want to believe!
 
2012-12-23 02:17:20 PM

Rufus Lee King: If you want to be an atheist, be an atheist.

However, the "HEY, EVERYBODY!!! LOOKIT ME!!! I'M AN ATHEIST!!!" thing is best left out.

No one cares about your personal problems.


Who said it was a problem?

Use your "screaming out your beliefs" observations towards religious people too.
 
2012-12-23 02:18:02 PM
/r/atheism must be at it again.

/you will believe the one true religion of having no religion.
 
2012-12-23 02:18:21 PM
letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

Abox: I don't believe in anything unfalsifiable. Is that a religion?

Another Karl Popper weenie.
 
2012-12-23 02:18:31 PM

bunner: I AM NOT GOING TO STAND FOR ALL OF THIS STAMP COLLECTING! STAMP COLLECTORS ARE IDIOTS AND YOU CAN'T COLLECT STAMPS WITHIN 500 FEET OF ME!


Get it?


Good straw man. It's more like "stop using public lands and resources to advocate and subsidize stamp collecting. Stop giving stamp collector shops tax exempt status when they use that money to lobby for stamp collecting regulation repeal. Also, I'm tired of getting shiat from stamp collectors for not collecting stamps. My self worth is not determined by your stamp almanac."
 
2012-12-23 02:19:20 PM

bunner: Get it?


Yea, I get it:

"Waaaaaaaaahhhhh people get annoyed with me for trying to constantly throw my personal magical beliefs in their face and IT'S SO UNFAIR I CAN'T FORCE THEM TO LISTEN OR USE THEIR MONEY TO DO IT!"

I'll be sure to remember your idiotic post the next time some religious loon is on my front step bothering me about their stupid beliefs or standing on the curb outside my office littering the place with their stupid little pamphlets. Or some nut is marching up and down the street with a sign telling me god is going to make me burn if I don't go to church.

Which will be some time this week since it's farking constant.
 
2012-12-23 02:19:34 PM

ParaHandy: It's actually a war on the Christina religion piggybacking the various winter solstice traditions. It was Saturnalia and Yule and all that long before the god botherers came around.

My personal war is against dis-information and its negative effects. All religions are disinformation, and their adherents to believe untrue myths. This is their absolute right in their private spaces and churches, but it impacts us all when they try to insert it into public life.

The billboard in Times Square is a bit unfortunate .... there is some evidence (and no, writings 400 years after the fact are not evidence) that there was a real, historical philosopher called Jesus / Issa, who was in fact crucified by the Romans. Admittedly less than there is for the existence of Paul and some others, and the Jesus in the bible may in fact be a fictional idealized amalgam of Paul and others.

Why can't they all just move into compounds?


Well put.

Here is liberal Massachusetts I have not seen any signs of a war on Christmas but I do see, from time to time, a war on science. I haven't seen any advertising by atheist but I have seen billboards by young earth creationists claiming their myths trump scientific facts. A few years back I took the kids to the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History and found that some fool was dropping creationist pamphlets on the floor all over the museum. Every one I saw I picked up and threw in the trash (boy scout training ftw!). Drive through the midwest and scan through AM radio and you are sure to find some creationist spewing psuedoscience bs. I can only imagine what it is like in the south.
 
2012-12-23 02:19:44 PM

mediablitz: If I can't see the nativity scene at the public park while I'm driving to Walmart to support CHRISTmas, my religion will collapse!


More accurately, if my religion is no longer afforded the unjustified special privileges from the state that it had been receiving up until now, my world will collapse.
 
2012-12-23 02:19:44 PM

Khellendros: My self worth is not determined by your stamp almanac.


Well that's encouraging.
 
2012-12-23 02:20:11 PM

Deep Contact: Shazam999: I wonder if atheists know that many churches contain a great amount of really nice, easy pussy. Nice young pussy too.

That's why priests work there.


Link
 
2012-12-23 02:20:14 PM
Give me a call the next time an angry mob of atheists burns someone to death because of their religion.

Anyone claiming atheism is a religion is a farking retard. Period. End of story.
 
2012-12-23 02:20:38 PM

Repo Man: mediablitz: If I can't see the nativity scene at the public park while I'm driving to Walmart to support CHRISTmas, my religion will collapse!

More accurately, if my religion is no longer afforded the unjustified special privileges from the state that it had been receiving up until now, my world will collapse.


yes, those unjustified special privileges should be handed out equally. *snort*
 
2012-12-23 02:20:52 PM

Rufus Lee King: If you want to be an atheist, be an atheist.

However, the "HEY, EVERYBODY!!! LOOKIT ME!!! I'M AN ATHEIST!!!" thing is best left out.

No one cares about your personal problems.


The same should go for your religious convictions as well.  Nobody gives a shiat about your relationship with Jesus/Buddha/The Almighty Cheesewhiz.  And keep that stuff out of my laws, kthnx.
 
2012-12-23 02:21:13 PM

rko281: I'd actually be an atheist if I could somehow muster that kind of deep, unquestioning faith that I was absolutely, infallibly right and there were no other possibilities.


Great strawman.
 
2012-12-23 02:21:43 PM

Iron Felix: Atheists who try to get all up in peoples' faces about it are just as bad as religious nuts who try to get all up in peoples' faces abut it.


I don't think that there are many atheists that get up in peoples' faces. Most simply want the religious sorts to stop getting up in their faces.

That seemed to be the focus of the first half of the article, that atheists seem to be more aggressive when they have religion forced onto them, such as prayers before government meetings, city sponsored nativity scenes, new installations of the ten commandments, the newly placing "In God we Trust" on courthouses all over Tennessee (they are trying this shiat all over Tennessee, just google it), etc...

If the religious people would simply mellow out and leave things at the status quo, the atheists would be more mellow too. But not a day goes by in the bible belt where some paster or religious zealot isn't trying to force their religious view point on others, and so atheists react.
 
2012-12-23 02:21:55 PM

Iron Felix: Atheists who try to get all up in peoples' faces about it are just as bad as religious nuts who try to get all up in peoples' faces abut it.


Don't touch my fruit cake!
 
2012-12-23 02:22:05 PM

letrole: letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

Abox: I don't believe in anything unfalsifiable. Is that a religion?

Another Karl Popper weenie.



You didn't answer the question.
 
2012-12-23 02:22:22 PM

specialkae: "In small-town USA, people are much more likely to be anti-religious because they have religion thrown in their face all the time - prayers at little league, prayers at city council meetings, Nativity scenes and Ten Commandments billboards, preachers on the radio and TV, etc. - and their lack of religion is often associated with being immoral."

So much THIS. I lived in a smaller community, roughly 40K, for about 7 years. I am a Pagan, my best friend (who recently passed, sadly) was a die hard atheist. Let's just say that she and I compared notes time and time again about the discrimination and bigotry of our community over the years. Narrow minded, and sometimes very nasty people would give each of us a hard time, and don't get me started on the teasing and questioning I got from me being a person of faith and my best friend being godless. Ridiculous. I'm not one bit anti Christmas (Christians however should be aware by now that they basically co-opted beliefs of many older systems and be accepting about it) and neither was my atheist friend-she and her husband celebrated it as a secular holiday that was all about food and seeing family and friends together and rejoicing that spring would be on the way. She just got her back up, as did I, when dealing with bigoted arseholes in small town America who were utterly convinced we would be the downfall of their fair community.

/my departed godless friend was one of only a handful of people I could discuss ethics, religion and politics sensibly with
//ashes to ashes and all that


You will find the same thing everywhere. People are mean regardless of belief or political bent. It is not limited to small towns or big cities. People are simply assholes and will be judgmental and biased no matter where you live.
 
2012-12-23 02:23:01 PM

mediablitz: Give me a call the next time an angry mob of atheists burns someone to death because of their religion.


Yeah, just last week, or was it 1630, non-believers were burned at the stake. I could be a little off on the date. then again, I'm pretty sure they repealed the laws allowing slavery, so, don't take my word for it.
 
2012-12-23 02:23:40 PM

Repo Man: rko281: I'd actually be an atheist if I could somehow muster that kind of deep, unquestioning faith that I was absolutely, infallibly right and there were no other possibilities.

Great strawman.


No, that's sarcasm.
 
2012-12-23 02:24:58 PM

Shazam999: So yeah, see, it's okay for you act the way you do, but heaven forbid someone acts they way you don't want them to. And forget letting people make judgements on their own - you need to protect them from what is obviously false, to you - because there's no way they're as smart as you, and therefore can't make the same judgement.


Everyone has their own belief system, so there is no practical way to have state-approved religious displays without discriminating against someone. Hence the only way to keep it clean is to keep the religious stuff where it belongs, in religious places.

Most people aren't as smart as me, that is a simple fact, and I won't apologise for it.

It is possible for a really smart person to be religious, and many draw comfort from it, but they have to be sure not to apply critical thinking to the myths of their chosen religion. My mother was a Unitarian at heart, but dragged me to the Church of Scotland as a kid. At 10 years old, I did a bit of back of the envelope on Santa's business and decided it just didn't make sense; religion ran afoul of the same problem about a year later. From the outside looking in, religions are simply ridiculous, and once you've stepped outside the bubble there really is no way back in. I am literally as incapable of believing in supernatural myths as you are in the Korean Fan Death myth.

Which of the 5,500 active major religions you follow (or none) is purely an accident of birth; humans are credulous by nature, and if you get told something often enough by adults as a child, you'll believe literally anything[1]

Religions were created by humans for a variety of purposes: the wise shaman telling the middle east tribe not to eat shellfish, which are hard to keep in a desert with no fridge, and not to mix raw and cooked food (basic food hygeine); as tools of social control for the oligarchy (Napoleon Bonaparte, the Vatican); but most often they were an attempt to understand and exert control of the world around us, much as a belief in the afterlife is a way to cheat death.

However, we have better tools for understanding and controlling the world - science and engineering. These are reliable and consistent (in the way that e.g. praying for an outcome is not) because they have a real impact in the physical world and are based on facts.

One way to view religions is a false step in the endeavour of scientific inquiry, much like phlogiston. Religion claims its authority from myths, and as these myths are disproven, then religion has to fight a rear gaurd action to protect its power (c.f. Vatican vs Galileo).


[1] here's one that stayed with me until I was 18, and comes from the world of science ... in UK schools, kids are commonly taught that water swirls down a drain from a sink or bath due to the earth's rotation. It's total BS, but even though I had the scientific background to figure that out (as of course did the teacher :) I never questioned it until encouraged to do so by a Mech Eng professor at college. I've had people with scientific degrees argue apopleptically over this point. If they can cling to a mistaken belief about science that the knowledge in their own head can easily disprove, how easy is it to adhere to a myth which is carefully periodically re-framed to avoid evidentiary tests?
 
2012-12-23 02:25:11 PM
Almost forgot. We were at WalMart yesterday, in a big city, mind you, and there was a mob of 6-10 year olds standing outside and offering to shake people's hands. Couldn't get past the little mites although I tried to do so politely and unobtrusively. So, this one little boy offers his hand to me and after hesitating for a moment I shook it. He said, "Merry Christmas, Jesus loves you!", I turned to my old man and kind of pointed him out to the kid and said thanks, but he's the Christian, not me. I know it wasn't nice, I hope I didn't mess with the kid too much, but please don't mob me on my way out of WalMart. I know my way to a very nice Christian church should I ever choose to convert, thankyouverymuch (old man is an officer of his church and still lives in sin with me). I know the kid didn't know that, and I should've watched my tongue, but after 2 hours in WalMart, I was a little short on patience.
 
2012-12-23 02:25:20 PM
If you're all f*cked up about people knocking up some blowmold figurines and some straw and a balsa wood hut once a year, I mean if this DEEPLY AFFECTS YOU, I'd ease up on the intellectual superiority fandango a bit.
 
2012-12-23 02:25:26 PM

mediablitz: Anyone claiming atheism is a religion is a farking retard. Period. End of story.


I think the funniest part is that their argument is basically "you guys are so awful you're just as bad as us" and they're too dumb to even realize it.
 
2012-12-23 02:25:41 PM

mediablitz: Give me a call the next time an angry mob of atheists burns someone to death because of their religion.


That's just sidestepping the issue. It's a way for you to cop out on all of the evil things Atheists have done and not take responsibility for it.

"It wasn't done in the name of this thing I claim I don't have therefore the evil I do commit doesn't matter"
 
2012-12-23 02:26:20 PM

bunner: I'd ease up on the intellectual superiority fandango a bit.


Except in your case you'd need to actually develop an intellect first.
 
2012-12-23 02:26:29 PM

Prey4reign: ParaHandy: Prey4reign: Here's an ironic fact about Christmas -- the man considered the George Washington of Pakistan, Muhammed Ali Jinnah, was born on December 25th, 1876.

Isaac Newton, one the most famous scientists ever, was also born on Xmas day.

So we're Jimmy Buffett and Shane McGowan.


We're both, because Newton's b-day? Little crowded in here. ;)
 
2012-12-23 02:27:24 PM

ParaHandy: Most people aren't as smart as me, that is a simple fact, and I won't apologise for it.


It's hard to be this retarded, so I don't doubt that most people aren't at the same level as you. It's hard to stoop so low.
 
2012-12-23 02:27:27 PM

fluffy2097: "It wasn't done in the name of this thing I claim I don't have therefore the evil I do commit doesn't matter"


If you have a point, why do you have to lie?
 
2012-12-23 02:27:44 PM
Noncombatants killed and injured when atheists attack agnostic stronghold...said no headline ever.
 
2012-12-23 02:28:12 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: If you have a point, why do you have to lie?


If you have a lie, why do you have to point?

/pointing is rude.
 
2012-12-23 02:29:14 PM

Shazam999: had98c: In this alternate world do people worship Harry Potter as a god and base their views on same sex marriage on lines from The Goblet of Fire?

Honestly, so what?

When you get older in life, you will find that a great deal of people will disagree with you on a great deal of subjects.

You live in a country where free speech is sacrosanct. So you can either live your life and enjoy it or keep griping about what other people think.

Are you sure you're not the lunatic?


People's beliefs inform their actions. When those actions have an impact on others, especially with regards to things like legal rights, I think it's perfectly reasonable to be critical of other people's beliefs.
 
2012-12-23 02:29:51 PM
Its really all boils down to Christians feeling butthurt because we won't let them put giant statues of Jesus in front of courthouses and city halls.
 
2012-12-23 02:30:28 PM
bunner: I AM NOT GOING TO STAND FOR ALL OF THIS STAMP COLLECTING! STAMP COLLECTORS ARE IDIOTS AND YOU CAN'T COLLECT STAMPS WITHIN 500 FEET OF ME!


Khellendros: Good straw man. It's more like "stop using public lands and resources to advocate and subsidize stamp collecting.


No dear, this isn't a strawman. It's a tidy rebuttal of an in-farking-credibly trite and sophmoronic simile that has a logical hole in it so big that you could drive a farking truck through it.

It's been thrown up by loons with a little learning like it's something new for around 80 years at least. Probably longer.
 
2012-12-23 02:30:45 PM
Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.
 
2012-12-23 02:32:00 PM

bunner: We used to make stuff.

We used to establish things.

Now, we just want our chance to shave a little off of what's already in place, before there's nothing left to shave.

Now, we just want to body check all the people who engage in that which we do not believe or care for out of the way so the trappings can be about US! Get that baby out of that bathwater! It's OUR turn! *snort* We're a nation of sociocultural cowbirds.


But enough about the greed on Wall Street...
 
2012-12-23 02:32:48 PM

Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.


Hey, Hey HEY! Let's not get all out of hand here!
 
2012-12-23 02:33:45 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: But enough about the greed on Wall Street...


Perfect example. Not the one I meant, but...
 
2012-12-23 02:35:05 PM
www.picturesandwords.co.uk
 
2012-12-23 02:35:32 PM

Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.


Oh believe me, once Obama turns this into a Muslim nation like he wants, I will start doing that.
 
2012-12-23 02:36:52 PM

bunner: Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.

Hey, Hey HEY! Let's not get all out of hand here!


I'm sure the atheist community will get right on that, as soon as they handle the schism over whether it's okay to ask a lady in an elevator to have coffee in your room or not.
 
2012-12-23 02:37:29 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: I think the funniest part is that their argument is basically "you guys are so awful you're just as bad as us" and they're too dumb to even realize it.


No, the argument is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't go criticizing everyone else and then declare that you yourself cannot be criticized.
 
2012-12-23 02:38:05 PM
letrole: Atheism is a Religion.
Abox: I don't believe in anything unfalsifiable. Is that a religion?
letrole: Another Karl Popper weenie.
Abox: You didn't answer the question.

Are you Yoda? Are you The Riddler? Are you YAKPW - Yet Another Karl Popper Weenie?
 
2012-12-23 02:38:06 PM
On the bright side, we can take some enjoyment in the fact that a number of these evangelical atheist will off themselves at some point between now and Valentine's Day.
 
2012-12-23 02:38:22 PM

bunner: If you're all f*cked up about people knocking up some blowmold figurines and some straw and a balsa wood hut once a year, I mean if this DEEPLY AFFECTS YOU, I'd ease up on the intellectual superiority fandango a bit.


Says somebody who would never, ever complain about billboards with Atheist sayings.

Give it a rest; we've heard this song and dance many, many times before.
 
2012-12-23 02:39:00 PM
www.faithmouse.com
 
2012-12-23 02:39:16 PM

Gosling: No, the argument is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't go criticizing everyone else and then declare that you yourself cannot be criticized.


Excuse me, I was going to add something here but the elephant in the room is taking up all the air.
 
2012-12-23 02:39:19 PM
Maybe everyone should join the church of Stop being Dicks.
 
2012-12-23 02:39:24 PM

david_gaithersburg: On the bright side, we can take some enjoyment in the fact that a number of these evangelical atheist will off themselves at some point between now and Valentine's Day.


WTF?
 
2012-12-23 02:39:42 PM

Rufus Lee King: Seriously, though, you "atheist" types: what's the deal with trying to rain on people's parades? It's infantile, and speaks volumes about you. Shut the f__k up.


Why? Should I also tell you that 2+2 is not 5, or that lower taxes for the rich won't help the economy?

The First Amendment gives you the right to spout religious nonsense, and me to call you on it. Welcome to the land of the semi-free.
 
2012-12-23 02:40:04 PM

bunner: The My Little Pony Killer: But enough about the greed on Wall Street...

Perfect example. Not the one I meant, but...


Perhaps you should say a little more of what you mean then.

Oh wait, this entire thread is filled up with that.
 
2012-12-23 02:40:15 PM

Fark Dupp: [guitarsandaudio.com image 500x375]


I disagree. No one can really know whether or not there's a god, so acting like you're absolutely sure about it one way or the other is a belief. To use your analogy, having the TV off would be someone who doesn't think about and/or care whether or not there's a god.
 
2012-12-23 02:40:26 PM

rko281: I'd actually be an atheist if I could somehow muster that kind of deep, unquestioning faith that I was absolutely, infallibly right and there were no other possibilities.


It's not faith, it's knowlege. It's what you can prove. There never has been proof of any higher power.

It's has never been on the Atheist to prove a negative, it's alway up to those who believe something exist, to show evidence.

" the other possibility" leads to Allah, Zeus, Satan, Great Father, Harry Potter and Superman.
 
2012-12-23 02:40:44 PM

Rufus Lee King: First, no one is trying to "oppress" you, or anything of that nature.


Then let's talk about fetuses, shall we?
 
2012-12-23 02:41:39 PM
When the Christians attacked gays, they stopped being Christian.
 
2012-12-23 02:42:02 PM

letrole: letrole: Atheism is a Religion.
Abox: I don't believe in anything unfalsifiable. Is that a religion?
letrole: Another Karl Popper weenie.
Abox: You didn't answer the question.

Are you Yoda? Are you The Riddler? Are you YAKPW - Yet Another Karl Popper Weenie?



Just a Farker asking a question. One you can't answer apparently.
 
2012-12-23 02:42:06 PM

Gato Blanco: letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

Le Troll, eh? I'll bite anyway, I"m bored.

Christianity is a religion. Theism is a belief in a deity, a trait many religions have.

Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity. Some religions are atheistic, but atheism itself is not a religion. It's like saying stamp collecting is a hobby, therefore not collecting stamps is also a hobby.


Thank you Penn Gillette.

If you're going to be a douche, don't be a plagiarizing douche.
 
2012-12-23 02:42:23 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Says somebody who would never, ever complain about billboards with Atheist sayings.


Would not give a polly wolly doo dah f*ck, actually. Can't be anymore offensive than 1-800 insurance ads. Broad stroke assumptions, how do they work?

Give it a rest; we've heard this song and dance many, many times before.

Who's "we". motherf*cker? : ) I think that one's called an appeal to the masses. AND with a bonus posture of authority. You sound like somebody's cranky maiden aunt. Did you know?
 
2012-12-23 02:42:56 PM

JerseyTim: I think the real takeaway from this article is that, once again, the heavily-populated areas of this country are the best places to live.


somebody doesn't drive a stick, or like nature
 
2012-12-23 02:43:51 PM
As an Agnostic with Neo-Pagan sympathies, I've grown tired of how the various crimes against common sense committed by certain Abrahamic fundamentalists are presumed to be, by some Atheists, the fundamental traits of anyone who purports to be religious. The moral code of a Druid, for example, is quite staunchly against any form of bigotry, misogyny, or dogmatic disbelief in the fundamental principles of nature.
 
2012-12-23 02:44:41 PM

Darth_Lukecash: It's not faith, it's knowlege. It's what you can prove.


I'm pretty sure you have to take a ton of shiat that other people prove on faith, since you can't possibly understand how to prove it on your own.
 
2012-12-23 02:45:00 PM

Now I Is!: As an Agnostic with Neo-Pagan sympathies


I only listen to post muse hip hop grungebilly rap polkas.
 
2012-12-23 02:45:11 PM

fluffy2097: ParaHandy: Most people aren't as smart as me, that is a simple fact, and I won't apologise for it.

It's hard to be this retarded, so I don't doubt that most people aren't at the same level as you. It's hard to stoop so low.


In your world view, since I don't respect sky fairies I am not smart. OK, that's your world view. It doesn't make it real.

I'm not stooping low ... I am challenging your mistaken beliefs. They are very ridiculous, and I am very blunt. If that makes you feel insulted or uncomfortable, stop believing ridiculous nonsense. Politely turning a blind eye to your delusion only works when it doesn't affect others.

Imagine you live somewhere hot like Florida, and have an elderly Korean visiting you. At what point do you stop him from running around turning off the ceiling fans?
 
2012-12-23 02:46:01 PM
Abox: Just a Farker asking a question. One you can't answer apparently.

True Wisdom is revealed not by a man's answers, but rather by his questions. Your questioning reveals an unfocused frustration that is expressed a bit better than "oh yeah? sez you", but not by much.

Would it be questionable for me to question your line of questioning? That Sir, is the question.
 
2012-12-23 02:46:15 PM
How did Atheists manage to go about their daily lives for the past hundreds of years before these Wars on Christmas started? THE HUGE MANATEE!!!

Or you could be some seculiar sect of the douchebag liberal "i'm a victim" by proxy. Either way even Penn Jillette thinks most Atheists act like retards.
 
2012-12-23 02:46:24 PM

ten foiled hats: Prey4reign: ParaHandy: Prey4reign: Here's an ironic fact about Christmas -- the man considered the George Washington of Pakistan, Muhammed Ali Jinnah, was born on December 25th, 1876.

Isaac Newton, one the most famous scientists ever, was also born on Xmas day.

So we're Jimmy Buffett and Shane McGowan.

We're both, because Newton's b-day? Little crowded in here. ;)


Word should have been were. Farking fumble fingers.
 
2012-12-23 02:46:44 PM

Quaker: Fark Dupp: [guitarsandaudio.com image 500x375]

I disagree. No one can really know whether or not there's a god, so acting like you're absolutely sure about it one way or the other is a belief. To use your analogy, having the TV off would be someone who doesn't think about and/or care whether or not there's a god.


You can't prove a negative, ever. There is an invisible monster under your bed that only I can see.
 
2012-12-23 02:47:14 PM

ParaHandy: In your world view, since I don't respect sky fairies I am not smart. OK, that's your world view. It doesn't make it real.

I'm not stooping low ... I am challenging your mistaken beliefs. They are very ridiculous, and I am very blunt. If that makes you feel insulted or uncomfortable, stop believing ridiculous nonsense. Politely turning a blind eye to your delusion only works when it doesn't affect others.

Imagine you live somewhere hot like Florida, and have an elderly Korean visiting you. At what point do you stop him from running around turning off the ceiling fans?


t2.gstatic.com
 
2012-12-23 02:47:54 PM
i.qkme.me
 
2012-12-23 02:49:13 PM
'Tis the season!

NSFW Link

/Merry XXXmas!
 
2012-12-23 02:51:18 PM
Now I Is! The moral code of a Druid, for example, is quite staunchly against any form of bigotry, misogyny, or dogmatic disbelief in the fundamental principles of nature.


Off to good and inclusive start, but then they lose points with the bit concerning human sacrifices and playing football with the skulls of the enemy killed in battle.
 
2012-12-23 02:51:38 PM
Anti-Xmas shopping sign suggestions:


Shop if you hate Jesus

A graphic: a cross with that "No" circle-&-slash next to a big dollar sign with rays

Xmas shopping helps atheists win

Tempted to pray? Shop instead!

Shop if you worship Santa

Another graphic: Jesus with that "No" circle-&-slash next to a Santa

Why go to church when you can go SHOPPING

Keep on serving Mammon

(And so on.)

And I should have made tshirthell.com pay me for "Ask me about explosive diarrhea!" but I hereby release the above anti-Xmas slogans into the public domain.
 
2012-12-23 02:52:09 PM

Prey4reign: ParaHandy: Prey4reign: Here's an ironic fact about Christmas -- the man considered the George Washington of Pakistan, Muhammed Ali Jinnah, was born on December 25th, 1876.

Isaac Newton, one the most famous scientists ever, was also born on Xmas day.

So we're Jimmy Buffett and Shane McGowan.


True. However, science is the true enemy of religion, because it's science that demystifies and debunks religious myths.

Pakistan is a religious state itself, and their official state religion worships the same monotheistic sky fairy that the Christians do. But "the details of my myth are better than the details of your myth" is a reason for terrorism (I'd include the Crusades) and wars. This kind of stuff is why many atheists no longer see religions as harmless affectations (unlike fan death) and see them as causing more harm than good.
 
2012-12-23 02:54:44 PM

whatshisname: david_gaithersburg: On the bright side, we can take some enjoyment in the fact that a number of these evangelical atheist will off themselves at some point between now and Valentine's Day.

WTF?


He seems to be under the impression that we're having a Who Can Be The Biggest Asshole contest on Fark, and he's going for gold.
 
2012-12-23 02:55:32 PM

Prey4reign: ten foiled hats: Prey4reign: ParaHandy: Prey4reign: Here's an ironic fact about Christmas -- the man considered the George Washington of Pakistan, Muhammed Ali Jinnah, was born on December 25th, 1876.

Isaac Newton, one the most famous scientists ever, was also born on Xmas day.

So we're Jimmy Buffett and Shane McGowan.

We're both, because Newton's b-day? Little crowded in here. ;)

Word should have been were. Farking fumble fingers.


No worries. Just here enjoying some popcorn, anyway.
 
2012-12-23 02:56:40 PM
Unlikely. The atheists I know are the most loyal, benevolent, and apathetic toward Christmas people I know.
 
2012-12-23 02:56:44 PM

Repo Man: whatshisname: david_gaithersburg: On the bright side, we can take some enjoyment in the fact that a number of these evangelical atheist will off themselves at some point between now and Valentine's Day.

WTF?

He seems to be under the impression that we're having a Who Can Be The Biggest Asshole contest on Fark, and he's going for gold.


Any Atheist troll in this thread already took that medal home about 10 minutes ago.
 
2012-12-23 03:00:05 PM

bunner: ParaHandy: In your world view, since I don't respect sky fairies I am not smart. OK, that's your world view. It doesn't make it real.

I'm not stooping low ... I am challenging your mistaken beliefs. They are very ridiculous, and I am very blunt. If that makes you feel insulted or uncomfortable, stop believing ridiculous nonsense. Politely turning a blind eye to your delusion only works when it doesn't affect others.

Imagine you live somewhere hot like Florida, and have an elderly Korean visiting you. At what point do you stop him from running around turning off the ceiling fans?

[t2.gstatic.com image 224x192]


I like to use the Korean Fan Death Myth as an example of ridiculous belief because it is very accessible. It's just as widely believed by the elderly in Korea as Christianity is believed by the elderly in the USA.

Moral of the story: reality is not a popularity contest. Just because 100m Americans believe in some kind of deity does not make it so.

Something I didn't note earlier ... religious faith is strongly correlated with being older, less intelligent and less educated. I leave you to draw your own conclusions.
 
2012-12-23 03:00:16 PM
i46.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-23 03:00:18 PM
Sorry atheists, but I really don't understand the POUTRAGE!

WTF do you care?

i1121.photobucket.com

^ What "activist atheists" might look like ^
 
2012-12-23 03:01:41 PM

12349876: Gosling: telling all who will listen of the benefits of atheism, trying to convert people to atheism

If that's your criteria for a religion, just about everything is a religion. Every product advertised on your TV is a religion, here's the benefits of the Ford Focus and why you should convert from your stupid Toyota.


Because consumerism is the only REAL religion.

/we worship the almighty dollar

//all of us
 
2012-12-23 03:01:48 PM
farm3.staticflickr.com
 
2012-12-23 03:01:48 PM

letrole: Abox: Just a Farker asking a question. One you can't answer apparently.

True Wisdom is revealed not by a man's answers



No but true idiocy sometimes is.
 
2012-12-23 03:02:56 PM

The One True TheDavid: vpb:

"Here's the bottom line: Where religion is weak, atheism is weak" in its intensity, says Pitzer sociologist Phil Zuckerman. "Where religion is strong, atheism is strong."

This organized Atheism thing is just a reaction to obnoxious bible thumpers.

True enough.

But there are areas where atheist commies and bible-thumpers can cooperate: crusading against Xmas shopping is one. Nobody who truly loves Jesus would be caught dead shopping on Black Friday, let alone Thanksgiving. Do you worship Jesus or Geoffrey the Giraffe?

Please please please make Christmas a religious holiday again.


How about no? Fact is, it never really was. The rampant commercialism of the season very likely predates ole JHC himself. The ancient Romans, Greeks and Persians were busy buying one another expensive trinkets around this time of year, in addition to feasting and drinking copious amounts of wine, mead, beer, and what-have-you. All you god-bothering or -shunning killjoys, keep your hands off my winter celebrations!

/atheist
//don't care what you believe or don't believe
///just as long as you aren't a dick about it
 
2012-12-23 03:03:39 PM

Fade2black: Any Atheist already took that medal home.



Lets look at some real bravery at work.

www.csmonitor.com

/This, you pansy assed Atheists, is what being brave is. Go walk yourself into the lions den like the WBC, and then maybe I'll think you're brave.
 
2012-12-23 03:03:46 PM

Vodka Zombie: St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Because JESUS!!!


Jesus may be the only thing keeping those people from going on a shooting rampage.
 
2012-12-23 03:03:50 PM

Amos Quito: Sorry atheists, but I really don't understand the POUTRAGE!

WTF do you care?

[i1121.photobucket.com image 496x484]

^ What "activist atheists" might look like ^


People's beliefs have an effect on what they do and how they stand on issues. Beliefs don't exist in a vacuum, they aren't cordoned off in some corner somewhere where it's all happy fun time and anyone can believe anything they want without it having any impact on others. That's why we care.
 
2012-12-23 03:04:20 PM

Fade2black: How did Atheists manage to go about their daily lives for the past hundreds of years before these Wars on Christmas started? THE HUGE MANATEE!!!

Or you could be some seculiar sect of the douchebag liberal "i'm a victim" by proxy. Either way even Penn Jillette thinks most Atheists act like retards.


They managed because they kept it to themselves and pretended to be good little Christians or whatever the dominant religion of the area was. If they didn't, they would've been ran out of town or killed.

There are assholes in every crowd, and I'm sure there are athiests out there that despise Christmas and want it completely destroyed. Most of us just want the constitution upheld. Religion is for church. Nativity scenes and other religious displays do not belong on public property. Outside of that, Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, and whatever else is going on in December/January.
 
2012-12-23 03:04:30 PM

GranoblasticMan: letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

Religion is an Atheism.


Cheeses is Lard.

/Put that one in your pipe and smoke it.
 
2012-12-23 03:05:02 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: bunner: Get it?

Yea, I get it:

"Waaaaaaaaahhhhh people get annoyed with me for trying to constantly throw my personal magical beliefs in their face and IT'S SO UNFAIR I CAN'T FORCE THEM TO LISTEN OR USE THEIR MONEY TO DO IT!"

I'll be sure to remember your idiotic post the next time some religious loon is on my front step bothering me about their stupid beliefs or standing on the curb outside my office littering the place with their stupid little pamphlets. Or some nut is marching up and down the street with a sign telling me god is going to make me burn if I don't go to church.

Which will be some time this week since it's farking constant.



You sound martyr-ish.
 
2012-12-23 03:05:26 PM

bunner: Now I Is!: As an Agnostic with Neo-Pagan sympathies

I only listen to post muse hip hop grungebilly rap polkas.


Actually, I have no real prejudices music subgenres. I find most any style has at least one composer worth listing to.
 
2012-12-23 03:06:15 PM
Just to clarify, I do see positive aspects to some organized religion - the Church of Scotland in the village has been a great community for my dad since my mother passed away. Many people do very positive and generous things due to values espoused by their religions.

My pragmatic objection to religion is that with all the wars and political headaches religious differences cause; it does more harm than good; my philosophical one is that it's false, and we shouldn't lie to our kids - I hope to be a parent one day, and things like Santa are going to give me a real headache. You can't tell a bright 7 year old that Santa isn't real and have them spoil the fun for their classmates, nor is it fair exclude them from participating in such a universal childhood ritual.
 
2012-12-23 03:06:57 PM

Molavian: Darth_Lukecash: It's not faith, it's knowlege. It's what you can prove.

I'm pretty sure you have to take a ton of shiat that other people prove on faith, since you can't possibly understand how to prove it on your own.


I have no understanding of computer programming and electronics. Yet here I am typing to you from my phone.

I have hard evidence that science works. I also know from evidence that science can be wrong due to lack of information or misinterpretation.

Why? Because of all of mans intellectual tools, science always demands proof- not faith.
 
2012-12-23 03:07:05 PM

Now I Is!: bunner: Now I Is!: As an Agnostic with Neo-Pagan sympathies

I only listen to post muse hip hop grungebilly rap polkas.

Actually, I have no real prejudices toward music subgenres. I find most any style has at least one composer worth listening to.


FTFM
 
2012-12-23 03:07:07 PM
So does being a Christian mean that one enjoys being barraged by Christmas ads starting in late November and constant shiatty muzak-style Christmas music in all public spaces? Cause I like Christmas a lot but that shiat is intolerable. No one is saying to cancel Christmas, but if I was a Muslim or Jewish or something, I would feel pretty left out for the a month and a half of the calender year.
 
2012-12-23 03:08:27 PM
I'm an athiest who loves Christmas. In my family, it involves family time, seeing people I haven't seen for a while (because they live far away, not because I don't like them!), gifts, eating, and playing games. Plus my beloved days off of work. The only one who prays or even THINKS of Jesus is my semi-fundy MIL. And her 30 seconds of prayer before Christmas dinner does not bother me...

Until someone starts forcing me to pray or go to church or decides to stop and beat me on the street for not believing I am not going to care.
 
2012-12-23 03:08:28 PM

had98c: Amos Quito: Sorry atheists, but I really don't understand the POUTRAGE!

WTF do you care?

[i1121.photobucket.com image 496x484]

^ What "activist atheists" might look like ^

People's beliefs have an effect on what they do and how they stand on issues. Beliefs don't exist in a vacuum, they aren't cordoned off in some corner somewhere where it's all happy fun time and anyone can believe anything they want without it having any impact on others. That's why we care.


So you're saying that you are trying to stamp out belief systems that might be in conflict with your political agenda?
 
2012-12-23 03:13:06 PM

gerrymander: St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Because they're douchebags trying to stop a reason to party. They want to destroy other people's fun, for no better reason than 'the character is fictional'.

Imagine a world where people everywhere celebrated 'Harry Potter's Birthday', and parents decorated their houses in Hogwarts dioramas and lit-up Whomping Willows, and the kids got gifts from a guy dressed as Dumbledore. Now imagine how big of an a-hole you'd need to be to complain that the parties should stop because 'Harry Potter' doesn't exist, and to erect billboards mocking Harry Potter's Birthday parties. Well, that's how these 'atheist' (more accurately, 'anti-theists') look.



Do your hypothetical HPB celebrants publicly proclaim that all HPB noncelebrants are agents of Voldemort, or kill each other over whether Richard Harris or Michael Gambon was the true Dumbledore?

Your example is just Christmas without the Christ-y stuff.
 
2012-12-23 03:13:12 PM

spidermilk: I'm an athiest who loves Christmas. In my family, it involves family time, seeing people I haven't seen for a while (because they live far away, not because I don't like them!), gifts, eating, and playing games. Plus my beloved days off of work. The only one who prays or even THINKS of Jesus is my semi-fundy MIL. And her 30 seconds of prayer before Christmas dinner does not bother me...

Until someone starts forcing me to pray or go to church or decides to stop and beat me on the street for not believing I am not going to care.


This
 
2012-12-23 03:13:26 PM

Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.


Done

Next?
 
2012-12-23 03:13:49 PM

2 Replies: BronyMedic: Vodka Zombie: St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Because JESUS!!!

You've got to remember the reason for the season.
[feyboy.com image 467x256]
Drunken debauched violence-filled sex for everyone.

Actually.... the real reason for the season...
[scienceblogs.com image 500x399]


goooolie you goin to burn in hell for that one!
 
2012-12-23 03:14:09 PM
Abox: Just a Farker asking a question. One you can't answer apparently.
letrole:True Wisdom is revealed not by a man's answers
Abox: No but true idiocy sometimes is.


Then you must be a communist then.
 
2012-12-23 03:16:01 PM

Cheesus: I'm sure there are athiests out there that despise Christmas and want it completely destroyed. Most of us just want the constitution upheld.


That's a good laugh.

/r/atheism regularly talks about how much better the world will be when the final solution of getting rid of all religion is implemented.
 
2012-12-23 03:16:48 PM

gerrymander: St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Because they're douchebags trying to stop a reason to party. They want to destroy other people's fun, for no better reason than 'the character is fictional'.

Imagine a world where people everywhere celebrated 'Harry Potter's Birthday', and parents decorated their houses in Hogwarts dioramas and lit-up Whomping Willows, and the kids got gifts from a guy dressed as Dumbledore. Now imagine how big of an a-hole you'd need to be to complain that the parties should stop because 'Harry Potter' doesn't exist, and to erect billboards mocking Harry Potter's Birthday parties. Well, that's how these 'atheist' (more accurately, 'anti-theists') look.


Your analogy is lacking ... imagine if they told the kids that Harry Potter was real, and controlled the whole universe. That Harry Potter and Dumbledore and the floating guy played by John Cleese are the same person. What if they insisted that the local school have a dark arts and magic class, and your kid was graded on it? What if they came and took your cat and ritually killed it, because cats are familiars of dark witches?
 
2012-12-23 03:17:14 PM

RexTalionis: Hey, Christians. Rampant commercialism destroyed Christmas long before atheists even bothered to care.


Bears repeating. And repeating and repeating and repeating.
 
2012-12-23 03:17:28 PM

Pitabred: Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.

Done

Next?



Okay, now troll Jews!

Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?
 
2012-12-23 03:18:03 PM

Gosling: You can't go criticizing everyone else and then declare that you yourself cannot be criticized.


When the religious stop lying and start making legitimate critiques that will mean something.
 
2012-12-23 03:18:40 PM

Pitabred: Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.

Done

Next?


So the internet is a mosque now?

Do something beyond the confines of your keyboard.
 
2012-12-23 03:19:11 PM

ParaHandy: Just to clarify, I do see positive aspects to some organized religion - the Church of Scotland in the village has been a great community for my dad since my mother passed away. Many people do very positive and generous things due to values espoused by their religions.

My pragmatic objection to religion is that with all the wars and political headaches religious differences cause; it does more harm than good; my philosophical one is that it's false, and we shouldn't lie to our kids - I hope to be a parent one day, and things like Santa are going to give me a real headache. You can't tell a bright 7 year old that Santa isn't real and have them spoil the fun for their classmates, nor is it fair exclude them from participating in such a universal childhood ritual.


Um, as far as I can tell Santa is the least of a parent's problems or concerns. Just saying, might sound like a big deal to some people to lie to your kids, but I don't think that kids care as much as we think they do. It isn't like 'OMG YOU LIED PARENT!' it is like 'Well, that was a fun game of pretend/fantasy/imagination.' because most kids I know have a pretty easy time transitioning from 'pretend that a magical fairy world exists' to 'real world'. I mean do the Santa thing and if they ask you tell them the truth- it is made up like snowmen coming to life, flying reindeer, fairies, leprechauns, etc. Santa represents generosity and everyone likes pretending- be nice and don't ruin it for your classmates.
 
2012-12-23 03:20:19 PM

ParaHandy: Prey4reign: ParaHandy: Prey4reign: Here's an ironic fact about Christmas -- the man considered the George Washington of Pakistan, Muhammed Ali Jinnah, was born on December 25th, 1876.

Isaac Newton, one the most famous scientists ever, was also born on Xmas day.

So we're Jimmy Buffett and Shane McGowan.

True. However, science is the true enemy of religion, because it's science that demystifies and debunks religious myths.

Pakistan is a religious state itself, and their official state religion worships the same monotheistic sky fairy that the Christians do. But "the details of my myth are better than the details of your myth" is a reason for terrorism (I'd include the Crusades) and wars. This kind of stuff is why many atheists no longer see religions as harmless affectations (unlike fan death) and see them as causing more harm than good.


I offer a tiny bit of irony and you combine a near complete ignorance of religion with a hole where a sense of humor belongs. Lighten up Francis.
 
2012-12-23 03:20:49 PM

fluffy2097: Cheesus: I'm sure there are athiests out there that despise Christmas and want it completely destroyed. Most of us just want the constitution upheld.

That's a good laugh.

/r/atheism regularly talks about how much better the world will be when the final solution of getting rid of all religion is implemented.


And Freepers are representative of all Republicans.
 
2012-12-23 03:21:08 PM

spidermilk: ParaHandy: Just to clarify, I do see positive aspects to some organized religion - the Church of Scotland in the village has been a great community for my dad since my mother passed away. Many people do very positive and generous things due to values espoused by their religions.

My pragmatic objection to religion is that with all the wars and political headaches religious differences cause; it does more harm than good; my philosophical one is that it's false, and we shouldn't lie to our kids - I hope to be a parent one day, and things like Santa are going to give me a real headache. You can't tell a bright 7 year old that Santa isn't real and have them spoil the fun for their classmates, nor is it fair exclude them from participating in such a universal childhood ritual.

Um, as far as I can tell Santa is the least of a parent's problems or concerns. Just saying, might sound like a big deal to some people to lie to your kids, but I don't think that kids care as much as we think they do. It isn't like 'OMG YOU LIED PARENT!' it is like 'Well, that was a fun game of pretend/fantasy/imagination.' because most kids I know have a pretty easy time transitioning from 'pretend that a magical fairy world exists' to 'real world'. I mean do the Santa thing and if they ask you tell them the truth- it is made up like snowmen coming to life, flying reindeer, fairies, leprechauns, etc. Santa represents generosity and everyone likes pretending- be nice and don't ruin it for your classmates.


I mean do parents concern themselves with taking the kids to Disney world and then explaining that Cinderella isn't technically a real princess like Princess Diana or something- she is a made up character. I don't get why people are so worried about "lying" about Santa... kids understand make believe characters.
 
2012-12-23 03:22:39 PM

letrole: Now I Is! The moral code of a Druid, for example, is quite staunchly against any form of bigotry, misogyny, or dogmatic disbelief in the fundamental principles of nature.


Off to good and inclusive start, but then they lose points with the bit concerning human sacrifices and playing football with the skulls of the enemy killed in battle.


But that's the advantage of having no strict dogma, admitting that your ancestors were wrong is actually quite easy.
 
2012-12-23 03:22:51 PM

Amos Quito: Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?


Probably not because Jews generally don't push public policy based on their religion. I mean, when was the last time you heard someone who was Jewish complain about the lack of school prayer or teaching evolution?
 
2012-12-23 03:23:15 PM

Amos Quito: had98c: Amos Quito: Sorry atheists, but I really don't understand the POUTRAGE!

WTF do you care?

[i1121.photobucket.com image 496x484]

^ What "activist atheists" might look like ^

People's beliefs have an effect on what they do and how they stand on issues. Beliefs don't exist in a vacuum, they aren't cordoned off in some corner somewhere where it's all happy fun time and anyone can believe anything they want without it having any impact on others. That's why we care.

So you're saying that you are trying to stamp out belief systems that might be in conflict with your political agenda?


No that's not what I'm saying. Thanks though for completely misreading and misrepresenting what I said. My response above can be applied to believers as well on how they should care about what non-believers believe. It works both ways. No political agenda needed.
 
2012-12-23 03:23:39 PM

Amos Quito: Pitabred: Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.

Done

Next?


Okay, now troll Jews!

Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?


Not really. Jews don't tend to be douchebags about their religion, though, and try to get it inserted into politics.

fluffy2097: Pitabred: Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.

Done

Next?

So the internet is a mosque now?

Do something beyond the confines of your keyboard.


Wait... you expect me to actually go vandalize someone else's property because I disagree with them, rather than simply contest their ideas in public? How Christian of you.
 
2012-12-23 03:24:17 PM

ParaHandy: Just to clarify, I do see positive aspects to some organized religion - the Church of Scotland in the village has been a great community for my dad since my mother passed away. Many people do very positive and generous things due to values espoused by their religions.

My pragmatic objection to religion is that with all the wars and political headaches religious differences cause; it does more harm than good; my philosophical one is that it's false, and we shouldn't lie to our kids - I hope to be a parent one day, and things like Santa are going to give me a real headache. You can't tell a bright 7 year old that Santa isn't real and have them spoil the fun for their classmates, nor is it fair exclude them from participating in such a universal childhood ritual.


Religion is a construct of man: it envelopes the good and bad of humanity. For every crusades, there were hospitals. For every persecution there was charity.

It's your choice about Telling Kids about Santa. I think if you sat them down, told them that Santa is a concept of giving, and that it's a game. It would be better. Otherwise you lie to you kid,-and encourage the lie because its going against the flow.
 
2012-12-23 03:26:07 PM

Now I Is!: letrole: Now I Is! The moral code of a Druid, for example, is quite staunchly against any form of bigotry, misogyny, or dogmatic disbelief in the fundamental principles of nature.


Off to good and inclusive start, but then they lose points with the bit concerning human sacrifices and playing football with the skulls of the enemy killed in battle.

But that's the advantage of having no strict dogma, admitting that your ancestors were wrong is actually quite easy.


P.S. It was Hurling not football.
 
2012-12-23 03:26:18 PM

Cheesus: fluffy2097: Cheesus: I'm sure there are athiests out there that despise Christmas and want it completely destroyed. Most of us just want the constitution upheld.

That's a good laugh.

/r/atheism regularly talks about how much better the world will be when the final solution of getting rid of all religion is implemented.

And Freepers are representative of all Republicans.


Unlike free republic, Reddit actually has a sizable user base and the people who post regularly number in the tens to hundreds of thousands (since it's a default sub you can't tell who's just stuck reading their garbage).

so yes, /r/atheism is in fact a representative sample.
 
2012-12-23 03:26:50 PM

nucular bum: The One True TheDavid: vpb:

"Here's the bottom line: Where religion is weak, atheism is weak" in its intensity, says Pitzer sociologist Phil Zuckerman. "Where religion is strong, atheism is strong."

This organized Atheism thing is just a reaction to obnoxious bible thumpers.

True enough.

But there are areas where atheist commies and bible-thumpers can cooperate: crusading against Xmas shopping is one. Nobody who truly loves Jesus would be caught dead shopping on Black Friday, let alone Thanksgiving. Do you worship Jesus or Geoffrey the Giraffe?

Please please please make Christmas a religious holiday again.

How about no? Fact is, it never really was. The rampant commercialism of the season very likely predates ole JHC himself. The ancient Romans, Greeks and Persians were busy buying one another expensive trinkets around this time of year, in addition to feasting and drinking copious amounts of wine, mead, beer, and what-have-you. All you god-bothering or -shunning killjoys, keep your hands off my winter celebrations!

/atheist
//don't care what you believe or don't believe
///just as long as you aren't a dick about it


Agreed -- I wrote an article about this some years ago and found some fascinating stuff (including the fact that by the 5th century, priests were already complaining that the faithful were spending too much time at Christmas partying and eating and not enough time thinking about God). Midwinter festivals have been around forever, and the church basically took an "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" approach and decided that this would be as good a time of year as any to celebrate the birth of Jesus. I'm fine with calling it Christmas or Yule or Solstice or what-have-you, as long as we still get some time off.

/Catholic
//We can have trouble in small towns too, depending on where it is.
 
2012-12-23 03:27:12 PM

thornhill: Amos Quito: Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?

Probably not because Jews generally don't push public policy based on their religion. I mean, when was the last time you heard someone who was Jewish complain about the lack of school prayer or teaching evolution?


Um...you familiar with U.S. foreign policy?
 
2012-12-23 03:29:29 PM
The only possible way to try to stop the erosion of Christianity's hegemony over other religions would be to enforce harsh rules and laws that would violate the principles of freedom and drive people away from organized religion even more quickly.

Ya'll's farked. If you want to maintain your dominance for as long as possible, I'd suggest you stop struggling and let nature take its course.
 
2012-12-23 03:29:40 PM

fluffy2097: Cheesus: I'm sure there are athiests out there that despise Christmas and want it completely destroyed. Most of us just want the constitution upheld.

That's a good laugh.

/r/atheism regularly talks about how much better the world will be when the final solution of getting rid of all religion is implemented.


Some atheist... Not all.

Eventually mankind will leave religion behind. When we look at the world as it is... Not how we wish it,
 
2012-12-23 03:29:48 PM
 
2012-12-23 03:33:10 PM
Now I Is! The moral code of a Druid, for example, is quite staunchly against any form of bigotry, misogyny, or dogmatic disbelief in the fundamental principles of nature.

letrole: Off to good and inclusive start, but then they lose points with the bit concerning human sacrifices and playing football with the skulls of the enemy killed in battle.

Now I Is! But that's the advantage of having no strict dogma, admitting that your ancestors were wrong is actually quite easy.

But what about that policeman they burnt in a bonfire or something on that scottish island?
 
2012-12-23 03:35:35 PM

fluffy2097: Cheesus: fluffy2097: Cheesus: I'm sure there are athiests out there that despise Christmas and want it completely destroyed. Most of us just want the constitution upheld.

That's a good laugh.

/r/atheism regularly talks about how much better the world will be when the final solution of getting rid of all religion is implemented.

And Freepers are representative of all Republicans.

Unlike free republic, Reddit actually has a sizable user base and the people who post regularly number in the tens to hundreds of thousands (since it's a default sub you can't tell who's just stuck reading their garbage).

so yes, /r/atheism is in fact a representative sample.


Reddit is mostly teenagers.
/r/atheism is mostly angry teenagers that can't express their thoughts at home.

Shut up.
 
2012-12-23 03:35:46 PM

GAT_00: When you live down here, you really do feel threatened just for being nonreligious and are treated as a threat by supposedly good Christians who hate you.


I've been agnostic, and indifferent to religion, and religious holidays for 35 years. I don't go to people's christmas gatherings, don't participate in the office shindig, etc. I've never, ever, ever, even once, felt threatened or treated wrongly because of my lack of belief.

If people hate you, it may just be because of your personality. It is at least an explanation you should strongly consider.
 
2012-12-23 03:36:13 PM
It's not so much that the majority of people in the US are actual Christians, rather they are more Christian culturalists - distinct in that they are "Christians" in a way they percieve Christianity to be, not how it actually is. As Bill Maher pointed out, they aren't really followers of Christ, merely fans.
 
2012-12-23 03:36:50 PM

rko281: I'd actually be an atheist if I could somehow muster that kind of deep, unquestioning faith that I was absolutely, infallibly right and there were no other possibilities.


To be fair, it took me a considerable amount of soul searching and observation to come by my lack of faith in an invisible sky wizard. What sealed the deal for me was hearing the many accounts of people -- and I'm not talking about schizophrenics necessarily -- who claimed to hear "God's voice." They were so inconsistent, contradictory, often ridiculously petty, self-serving, and sometimes weapons-grade crazy. What sort of singular entity would behave so capriciously? Surely the One True God would proffer a consistent message. My conclusion: it ain't God, it's your brain chemistry.
 
2012-12-23 03:37:13 PM
Stop making religious based laws and stop putting religion in public schools and you will never hear from 90% of atheists again.

Stop harassing us in our homes and on the streets and you'll never hear from another 9% of atheists again.

The remaining 1% will always be around because we enjoy mocking your ridiculous beliefs.
 
2012-12-23 03:38:04 PM

fluffy2097: Cheesus: fluffy2097: Cheesus: I'm sure there are athiests out there that despise Christmas and want it completely destroyed. Most of us just want the constitution upheld.

That's a good laugh.

/r/atheism regularly talks about how much better the world will be when the final solution of getting rid of all religion is implemented.

And Freepers are representative of all Republicans.

Unlike free republic, Reddit actually has a sizable user base and the people who post regularly number in the tens to hundreds of thousands (since it's a default sub you can't tell who's just stuck reading their garbage).

so yes, /r/atheism is in fact a representative sample.


Eh, if you say so. Anonymity tends to bring out the worst in people. That, combined with the fact that atheists tend to be blamed for everything bad that's ever happened, ever makes them angry and want to lash out. Been there, grown up.
 
2012-12-23 03:38:23 PM

thornhill: Amos Quito: Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?


Probably not because Jews generally don't push public policy based on their religion.

momentmagazine.files.wordpress.com

ericpalmer.files.wordpress.com

 www.bollyn.com


atljewishtimes55.1upprelaunch.com

www.globalpost.com

They don't?
 
2012-12-23 03:38:48 PM

thornhill: Amos Quito: Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?

Probably not because Jews generally don't push public policy based on their religion. I mean, when was the last time you heard someone who was Jewish complain about the lack of school prayer or teaching evolution?


Actually, there is an issue of Hasidic Jews forcing their hard core views on their more modern/secularist Jewish counterparts.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/stanley-weiss/israels-future- w hen-its-j_b_1600841.html
 
2012-12-23 03:39:13 PM

Darth_Lukecash: ParaHandy: Just to clarify, I do see positive aspects to some organized religion - the Church of Scotland in the village has been a great community for my dad since my mother passed away. Many people do very positive and generous things due to values espoused by their religions.

My pragmatic objection to religion is that with all the wars and political headaches religious differences cause; it does more harm than good; my philosophical one is that it's false, and we shouldn't lie to our kids - I hope to be a parent one day, and things like Santa are going to give me a real headache. You can't tell a bright 7 year old that Santa isn't real and have them spoil the fun for their classmates, nor is it fair exclude them from participating in such a universal childhood ritual.

Religion is a construct of man: it envelopes the good and bad of humanity. For every crusades, there were hospitals. For every persecution there was charity.

It's your choice about Telling Kids about Santa. I think if you sat them down, told them that Santa is a concept of giving, and that it's a game. It would be better. Otherwise you lie to you kid,-and encourage the lie because its going against the flow.


WHERE did we get this idea that Santa Claus is a "lie"? Someone said up above--is EVERYTHING that is a story a "lie"? Is it necessary to explain, when you go see "The Hobbit" that there's really no such place as Middle-Earth and hobbits and dwarves and dragons are just pretend and none of that is real so don't get any ideas, kid? Or that Cinderella and Ariel aren't actually princesses? Because that's all Santa is--a story.

Kids figure it out, about age 5 or so, when they start to realize that all the wrapping paper is the same and there are "Santas" in every mall and at every parade. Then they pretend another year or two because it's fun and it makes them feel superior to any little brothers or sisters they've got. (And to any silly adults who keep asking them if they've been good so Santa will bring them presents) Then they drop it. There's no need to kill the joy earlier.

People would figure the same thing out about God, except that we keep the pretense going into our adulthood, with churches and synagogues and mosques and everyone keeps up the pretense. And the ones who feel superior about knowing there is no god tend to be irritatingly smug and preachy about it. But equating god and Santa is just asinine. Let your kids believe in an annual story for a couple years. They won't die or join a Crusade. And by age 8, they won't even care.
 
2012-12-23 03:39:27 PM

rko281: I'd actually be an atheist if I could somehow muster that kind of deep, unquestioning faith that I was absolutely, infallibly right and there were no other possibilities.


This is a 100% incorrect strawman of the atheist position. Do you need to justify your faith by creating lies about people who don't agree with you??
 
2012-12-23 03:41:14 PM

Pitabred: Amos Quito: Pitabred: Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.

Done

Next?


Okay, now troll Jews!

Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?

Not really. Jews don't tend to be douchebags about their religion, though, and try to get it inserted into politics.

fluffy2097: Pitabred: Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.

Done

Next?

So the internet is a mosque now?

Do something beyond the confines of your keyboard.

Wait... you expect me to actually go vandalize someone else's property because I disagree with them, rather than simply contest their ideas in public? How Christian of you.


WHY U ADDRESS THIS TO ME???
 
TWX
2012-12-23 03:42:17 PM

ToxicMunkee: This year the Christmas season started before most people were done eating their Thanksgiving dinner. The War on Christmas is a lie.


No, there is a real war on Christmas, and your first sentence summarized it in a nutshell.

Conspicuous consumption is the real war on a religious Christmas.
 
2012-12-23 03:46:04 PM

Darth_Lukecash: fluffy2097: Cheesus: I'm sure there are athiests out there that despise Christmas and want it completely destroyed. Most of us just want the constitution upheld.

That's a good laugh.

/r/atheism regularly talks about how much better the world will be when the final solution of getting rid of all religion is implemented.

Some atheist... Not all.

Eventually mankind will leave religion behind. When we look at the world as it is... Not how we wish it,


This is where I think militant atheists are ridiculous with just as fantastic a teleology as any Christian Bible thumper: this notion that the world will be better without any religion. Human nature is human nature, and there will be something else just as irrational, but probably more unkind to take Christianity's place if they are successful.

Hearing their preaching on this always reminds me of early, naive Communist tracks about how the world will be better of with the creation of the New Soviet Man.
 
2012-12-23 03:47:17 PM

Amos Quito: thornhill: Amos Quito: Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?

Probably not because Jews generally don't push public policy based on their religion.





 






They don't?


I don't recall any Jewish person demanding a menorah be placed a court house lawn.

Nor have they demanded shrimp be outlawed.

But they do hsve a great interest not in being executed in genocide. Nor do they wish to see the country that was founded to protect their people, wiped out.
 
2012-12-23 03:49:04 PM

Amos Quito:
Not really. Jews don't tend to be douchebags about their religion, though, and try to get it inserted into politics.

WHY U ADDRESS THIS TO ME???


I only addressed the bolded part of it to you. If you look back at my post, it's got multiple quotes in it.
 
2012-12-23 03:49:57 PM

Amos Quito: thornhill: Amos Quito: Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?

Probably not because Jews generally don't push public policy based on their religion.

[momentmagazine.files.wordpress.com image 248x185]

[ericpalmer.files.wordpress.com image 483x316]

 [www.bollyn.com image 400x456]


[atljewishtimes55.1upprelaunch.com image 350x280]

[www.globalpost.com image 360x240]

They don't?


AIPAC is a pro-Israel lobby. It's about foreign policy and has nothing to do with religion.
 
2012-12-23 03:51:43 PM
I noticed a lot of these goobers have started bleating about strawman this and strawman that.

The bad part is that there aren't any strawman arguments being exposed. Please learn a new farking word.

Strawman is the new Troll.
 
2012-12-23 03:52:56 PM

LindyJohn: Darth_Lukecash: fluffy2097: Cheesus: I'm sure there are athiests out there that despise Christmas and want it completely destroyed. Most of us just want the constitution upheld.

That's a good laugh.

/r/atheism regularly talks about how much better the world will be when the final solution of getting rid of all religion is implemented.

Some atheist... Not all.

Eventually mankind will leave religion behind. When we look at the world as it is... Not how we wish it,

This is where I think militant atheists are ridiculous with just as fantastic a teleology as any Christian Bible thumper: this notion that the world will be better without any religion. Human nature is human nature, and there will be something else just as irrational, but probably more unkind to take Christianity's place if they are successful.

Hearing their preaching on this always reminds me of early, naive Communist tracks about how the world will be better of with the creation of the New Soviet Man.


Who said it would be better?

I'm sure we'll find some philosophical/political theory to fight about.

I'm just saying that certain things will be abandoned.
 
2012-12-23 03:53:55 PM

thornhill: Amos Quito: Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?

Probably not because Jews generally don't push public policy based on their religion. I mean, when was the last time you heard someone who was Jewish complain about the lack of school prayer or teaching evolution?


And when did they try to make it law that you have to cut the end of your baby son's dick off?

I will pick on them for beliefs just like anyone else - the rules about milk, meat and shellfish aren't really useful when you live in NYC and have a refrigerator, for example. Also the blind loyalty to Israel regardless of its bad behaviour.

Jews are not much of an issue because most of them are more cultural than religious; however, Jewish fundies can be just as obnoxious about projecting their religion into public sphere as fundie Christians or Muslims - there was a fundie Jewish neighborhood in Brooklyn last year that tried to block the installation of cycle lanes, because they didn't want women in tight shorts riding past and corrupting their youth.
 
2012-12-23 03:54:57 PM

letrole: I noticed a lot of these goobers have started bleating about strawman this and strawman that.

The bad part is that there aren't any strawman arguments being exposed. Please learn a new farking word.

Strawman is the new Troll.


0.5/10
 
2012-12-23 03:54:59 PM

ParaHandy: Moral of the story: reality is not a popularity contest. Just because 100m Americans believe in some kind of deity does not make it so.


Or not so. Thefact of the matter is, you don't know, they don't know, I don't know and to deny that is to piss from a great height on science. But, then so does this while zeitgeist of "YOU HAVE TO ABSITIVELY COMMIT TO A SIDE!" that permeates our entire culture, as of late.

Something I didn't note earlier ... religious faith is strongly correlated with being older, less intelligent and less educated. I leave you to draw your own conclusions.

Oh, I did. I got some blanket and ostensibly unimpeachable statistics can let you have for a pair of super bowl tickets. First thirty rows, please. They're really good statistics.
 
2012-12-23 03:56:30 PM

Gyrfalcon: Darth_Lukecash: ParaHandy: Just to clarify, I do see positive aspects to some organized religion - the Church of Scotland in the village has been a great community for my dad since my mother passed away. Many people do very positive and generous things due to values espoused by their religions.

My pragmatic objection to religion is that with all the wars and political headaches religious differences cause; it does more harm than good; my philosophical one is that it's false, and we shouldn't lie to our kids - I hope to be a parent one day, and things like Santa are going to give me a real headache. You can't tell a bright 7 year old that Santa isn't real and have them spoil the fun for their classmates, nor is it fair exclude them from participating in such a universal childhood ritual.

Religion is a construct of man: it envelopes the good and bad of humanity. For every crusades, there were hospitals. For every persecution there was charity.

It's your choice about Telling Kids about Santa. I think if you sat them down, told them that Santa is a concept of giving, and that it's a game. It would be better. Otherwise you lie to you kid,-and encourage the lie because its going against the flow.

WHERE did we get this idea that Santa Claus is a "lie"? Someone said up above--is EVERYTHING that is a story a "lie"? Is it necessary to explain, when you go see "The Hobbit" that there's really no such place as Middle-Earth and hobbits and dwarves and dragons are just pretend and none of that is real so don't get any ideas, kid? Or that Cinderella and Ariel aren't actually princesses? Because that's all Santa is--a story.

Kids figure it out, about age 5 or so, when they start to realize that all the wrapping paper is the same and there are "Santas" in every mall and at every parade. Then they pretend another year or two because it's fun and it makes them feel superior to any little brothers or sisters they've got. (And to any silly adults who keep asking them if they've been good so Santa will bring them presents) Then they drop it. There's no need to kill the joy earlier.

People would figure the same thing out about God, except that we keep the pretense going into our adulthood, with churches and synagogues and mosques and everyone keeps up the pretense. And the ones who feel superior about knowing there is no god tend to be irritatingly smug and preachy about it. But equating god and Santa is just asinine. Let your kids believe in an annual story for a couple years. They won't die or join a Crusade. And by age 8, they won't even care.


So you can scientifically prove that Santa lives at the North Pole?

Being a story does not exclude it from being a lie.
 
2012-12-23 03:59:16 PM

bunner: Fark Dupp: [guitarsandaudio.com image 500x375]

Here, let me shut your TeeVee off and demonstrate how stupid you are to watch it when it's on. "Cheetos are cheese like margarine is butter." Wait, no.. um, "dresses are pants like.." Wait, hang on..


Well, whatever your supernatural belief of choice is, it's super dumb, but if I respond honestly to a direct question about what religion I practice, I will be considered untrustworthy by the religious (85% of people).

In a world where you will be harassed by the majority and barred from public office for not collecting stamps, expect to see some pushback and criticism of stamp collecting.
 
2012-12-23 04:01:09 PM

Darth_Lukecash:
Who said it would be better? I'm sure we'll find some philosophical/political theory to fight about. I'm just saying that certain things will be abandoned.


Have you seen the episode of South Park where Cartman travels to 3000 AD and finds out that they have turned science into a religion and worship video games? :)

It's true that most humans will eventually eschew religion, just like we put behind us any other false belief ... the earth is flat, blood ebbs and flows, phlogiston, banging sticks together to make it rain, ...

Religion has left us some cool shiat. Scotland is covered in stone circles, and the beautiful disused churches in Edinburgh make great pubs, restaurants and theatres.
 
2012-12-23 04:02:27 PM

Darth_Lukecash: Amos Quito: thornhill: Amos Quito: Do atheists ever troll Jews? Not in Israel (Jews trolling Jews), but here in the US?

Probably not because Jews generally don't push public policy based on their religion.

They don't?

I don't recall any Jewish person demanding a menorah be placed a court house lawn.


www.themoralliberal.com


What about the White House lawn?

Darth_Lukecash: Nor have they demanded shrimp be outlawed.


Have you seen anyone trying to force anyone to eat shellfish?

Darth_Lukecash: But they do hsve a great interest not in being executed in genocide. Nor do they wish to see the country that was founded to protect their people, wiped out.


So atheists will fight like hell to keep religion out of the sphere of public influence in most countries, but they're okay with a State that was founded on and exists to serve the interests of racism and religious / ethnic centrism?

That's an interesting thought.
 
2012-12-23 04:03:45 PM

kingoomieiii: Well, whatever your supernatural belief of choice is, it's super dumb,


Surely you cribbed this from Kant or Hegel.

kingoomieiii: if I respond honestly to a direct question about what religion I practice, I will be considered untrustworthy by the religious (85% of people).


I have a few statistics and baseless assertions left over from the ones I traded for Superbowl tickets, in case you run out.
 
2012-12-23 04:07:22 PM

bunner: Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.

Hey, Hey HEY! Let's not get all out of hand here!


Atheists in Islamic countries take on Islam.
 
2012-12-23 04:09:32 PM

bunner: kingoomieiii: Well, whatever your supernatural belief of choice is, it's super dumb,

Surely you cribbed this from Kant or Hegel.

kingoomieiii: if I respond honestly to a direct question about what religion I practice, I will be considered untrustworthy by the religious (85% of people).

I have a few statistics and baseless assertions left over from the ones I traded for Superbowl tickets, in case you run out.


Did they give you the first thirty rows? (Also, no way he got that from Hegel. Wouldn't surprise me if it was Kant.)

/Not a fan of Kant
//Slashies
///I heard they come in threes. True?
 
2012-12-23 04:10:00 PM

kingoomieiii: bunner: Buffalo77: Yeah brave atheists, go go go. Brave atheists keep up the work.

Next up, start the war on muslim holiday, go to a mosque and draw pictures of mocking Mohammed.

yeah, brave atheists go do that.

Hey, Hey HEY! Let's not get all out of hand here!

Atheists in Islamic countries take on Islam.



Now THOSE would be brave atheists indeed.
 
2012-12-23 04:10:27 PM
I'm an athiest and really dont care if people want to celebrate thier holiday. Most athiests are more annoying than christains. STFU and let people enjoy themselves the way they see fit. Merry Xmas, happy holidays, and that jewish thing that I cant spell or care to learn. Peace on earth and good will toward men...and women. Now go make me a sandwich.
 
2012-12-23 04:11:41 PM
Okay, so it isn't about Islam because, they, you know, they might just fark us up if we start shouting at them about THEIR sky wizard and it's not about teh joos because, he, you can't pick on the Jews, because they had a really hard way to go in WWII and it's not about Buddha or Confucius, cause, hey, they're like, totally eastern and sh*t. You just essentially have a bug up your ass about Jeeyuhzuss. Now THAT'S a hobby. : )
 
2012-12-23 04:13:57 PM

letrole: I noticed a lot of these goobers have started bleating about strawman this and strawman that.

The bad part is that there aren't any strawman arguments being exposed. Please learn a new farking word.

Strawman is the new Troll.


While you are still nothing more than an old one.  Also, asking people to "please learn a new farking word" is rich coming from the child who trots out "atheism is a religion" every goddamn time one of these threads hit the main page.

You bore me.  *Plonk*
 
2012-12-23 04:13:58 PM

bunner: ParaHandy: In your world view, since I don't respect sky fairies I am not smart. OK, that's your world view. It doesn't make it real.

I'm not stooping low ... I am challenging your mistaken beliefs. They are very ridiculous, and I am very blunt. If that makes you feel insulted or uncomfortable, stop believing ridiculous nonsense. Politely turning a blind eye to your delusion only works when it doesn't affect others.

Imagine you live somewhere hot like Florida, and have an elderly Korean visiting you. At what point do you stop him from running around turning off the ceiling fans?

[t2.gstatic.com image 224x192]


there's a cultural fear of fans in eastern Asia, an odd belief that running them in sealed rooms will make you suffocate. Most fans in Asia have timers on them for that reason. Look up "fan death".
 
2012-12-23 04:14:31 PM

Coiled Hot 1: I'm an athiest and really dont care if people want to celebrate thier holiday. Most athiests are more annoying than christains. STFU and let people enjoy themselves the way they see fit. Merry Xmas, happy holidays, and that jewish thing that I cant spell or care to learn. Peace on earth and good will toward men...and women. Now go make me a sandwich.


Well said.

I'm an Itheist, myself.

I am God, and all other "things" are just figments that I created to alleviate the boredom that inevitably comes from being the only thing in existence.
 
2012-12-23 04:14:47 PM

bunner: RexTalionis: Hey, Christians. Rampant commercialism destroyed Christmas long before atheists even bothered to care.

Oh, that sounds a terrible bother. Do go on at length at the travails and tribulations of trying to EDUCATE the poor Jesus idiots. *snort* Take away the smirk and the down the nose harrumph and the atheist "movement" looks a lot like a bunch of kids playing "Oh, nuh UH!, *I* am smarter!" As if staunch non-belief in something had some air of inherent intellectual credibility about it. It doesn't. Would that not be be interesting if it did?


7/10. -3 for butchering the language.
 
2012-12-23 04:15:42 PM

Rufus Lee King: If you want to be an atheist, be an atheist.

However, the "HEY, EVERYBODY!!! LOOKIT ME!!! I'M AN ATHEIST!!!" thing is best left out.

No one cares about your personal problems.


Because religious people NEVER promote their beliefs/problems?
 
2012-12-23 04:15:51 PM

kingoomieiii: Look up "fan death".


I'm just gonna take your word for it. Mostly because it's germane to nothing and I can't be arsed.
 
2012-12-23 04:16:30 PM

The One True TheDavid: St_Francis_P:

And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Speaking as a religion-hating atheist, I really don't care what people believe. What bothers me being beaten up by commercialism: I'd rather those few "Christians" who really care about the alleged birthday of their man-god do all they can to make the yearly shopping frenzy unfashionable.

Have your candlelit services, pass out Advent calendars, pray in public (as long as its voluntary: you don't want us to force you NOT to pray, do you?), wish each other (and even me) any goddamn thing you want, but for chrissake stop shopping if you truly love Jesus! You're welcome to picket against "Xmas shopping" in the public areas of shopping malls: I'll defend to the death your right to do so, I might even join you with a sign reading "An atheist against Xmas SHOPPING." And hey, if anarchists can break windows at Starbuck's then y'all can trash a Macy's for all I care. As long as you don't make celebrating the birth of your savior mandatory, please please please contrast religious observance with all that worship of Mammon.

And don't get me started on the goyification of Hanukkah. If there is no Jewish holiday where gift-giving is holy then there are always a few hundred secular days to do it on: every Jew has a birthday, for example, even if s/he's not the messiah.

SHOP LESS, PRAY MORE!


Your blog sucks.

/Secular Christmas is awesome
//Christmas dinner is awesome
///Shopping for presents and getting presents is fun
////Caroling is fun
//Christmas parties are fun
//Atheist
 
2012-12-23 04:18:25 PM

cygnusx13: 7/10. -3 for butchering the language.


I'm not trolling, I'm not in a popularity contest, I didn't butcher sh*t, your priggish assertions notwithstanding and I don't give a fat, monkey's ass what you think about anything. Now what, Socrates? : )
 
2012-12-23 04:20:10 PM

Coiled Hot 1: I'm an athiest and really dont care if people want to celebrate thier holiday. Most athiests are more annoying than christains. STFU and let people enjoy themselves the way they see fit. Merry Xmas, happy holidays, and that jewish thing that I cant spell or care to learn. Peace on earth and good will toward men...and women. Now go make me a sandwich


Pretty much my attitude. There are some beautiful light displays to look at. A week off from work. People spending, which is good for the economy. And a lot of people in a happy good mood. Happy kids faces. I stay home for my week off. Don't put up any decorations or do anything special, and eat all the wonderful food that people send me because I am a "poor" bachelor. Then sleep in while the faithful are at church. It's awesome.

All in all I just truly don't get the bitterness and hate from fellow non-believers.
 
2012-12-23 04:22:55 PM
Christians demand that America be turned into a Christian nation and have the nerve to act surprised when people say no. The Founding Fathers didn't want ANY religion to be the singular one of America. Freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion. I've yet to have Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, or atheists knock at my door and tell me that I'm going to burn in everlasting torture unless I join their club. And it's really ironic how much Christianity whines about being persecuted, then turns around and persecutes other religions, homosexuals, and women. The entire history of Christianity has been one of persecuting others, assimilating other religions into itself, and trying to spread itself across the world.
 
2012-12-23 04:23:48 PM

bunner: kingoomieiii: Well, whatever your supernatural belief of choice is, it's super dumb,

Surely you cribbed this from Kant or Hegel.

kingoomieiii: if I respond honestly to a direct question about what religion I practice, I will be considered untrustworthy by the religious (85% of people).

I have a few statistics and baseless assertions left over from the ones I traded for Superbowl tickets, in case you run out.


If you're done mocking word choice and nitpicking numbers, perhaps you can actually respond to the message?
 
2012-12-23 04:24:10 PM

Rufus Lee King: Seriously, though, you "atheist" types: what's the deal with trying to rain on people's parades? It's infantile, and speaks volumes about you. Shut the f__k up.


Lol. Waaaah!
 
2012-12-23 04:24:26 PM

bunner: ParaHandy: Moral of the story: reality is not a popularity contest. Just because 100m Americans believe in some kind of deity does not make it so.

Or not so. Thefact of the matter is, you don't know, they don't know, I don't know and to deny that is to piss from a great height on science. But, then so does this while zeitgeist of "YOU HAVE TO ABSITIVELY COMMIT TO A SIDE!" that permeates our entire culture, as of late.

Something I didn't note earlier ... religious faith is strongly correlated with being older, less intelligent and less educated. I leave you to draw your own conclusions.

Oh, I did. I got some blanket and ostensibly unimpeachable statistics can let you have for a pair of super bowl tickets. First thirty rows, please. They're really good statistics.


Again, the logical fallacy of "I can claim anything, and as long as enough people have believed it for long enough, you have to DISprove it". There are infinite possibilities for things we don't know about, and trying to disprove them does not lead anywhere. This is why science works bottom up - use the evidence to inductively form a hypothesis, and then design experiements to prove it (or not). This is why we have Occam's Razor (invented by Duns Scotus btw, not Occam :)

The distribution of air molecules in the room you are in is a result of random motion and collisions. There is no law of physics that says they definitively can't all end up at the other end of the room and thus leave you breathless and exploding; however, the chance of it happening is so infinitesimal that you don't worry about it. I assign a lower probability to any one religion being true. The odds of a semi-literate camel herder in the middle east having got it right by chance, and millenia of rigorous scientific inquiry yeilding zip? Rather low.

There is an invisible monster under your bed which only I can detect. I call it the FSM. As an intellectual exercise, try to prove that it does not exist. When you start getting into the difference between the FSM and your deity of choice, you will quickly realise that the ONLY differences between the FSM and your god are (a) popularity, (b) the FSM isn't the god you were told to believe in by adults, and (c) the creator of the FSM doesn't actually believe what he wrote. When you understand why you are certain the FSM is not real, despite there being no evidence either way, you'll understand why your god is not real either.

American Football is a perversion of rugby, and Superbowl tickets are crazily overpriced. However, I will happily buy you a pair on the 50 yard line and a VIP hospitality package if you can provide any verifiable evidence i can test for the existence of any supernatural deity or event from any religion whatsoever. Both in the sense that I am certain the bet is not collectable, and in the sense that (suspending disbelief for a moment) if you could, we'd be splitting a Nobel Prize at minimum.
 
2012-12-23 04:24:35 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: The entire history of Christianity organized religion has been one of persecuting others, assimilating other religions into itself, and trying to spread itself across the world.


F
 
2012-12-23 04:26:23 PM

ParaHandy: Again, the logical fallacy of "I can claim anything, and as long as enough people have believed it for long enough, you have to DISprove it".


That's sort of how opinions work. sit tight. In another century or so, maybe atheism will be the dominant opinion and YOU can dismiss whose who disagree, too. Sort of like now, only somebody will give a sh*t. Cause it's all opinions, daddy-o.
 
2012-12-23 04:27:53 PM

kingoomieiii: perhaps you can actually respond to the message?


With all due respect, nothing about "whatever you think is super dumb" begs much of a response that I can actually say with a straight face.
 
2012-12-23 04:28:54 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: . I've yet to have Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, or atheists knock at my door and tell me that I'm going to burn in everlasting torture unless I join their club.



Don't like proselytizers? No problem.

Tell them you'll be happy to listen their spiel - for $50.00 per minute - paid in advance.
 
2012-12-23 04:30:24 PM
i49.tinypic.com.
 
2012-12-23 04:30:57 PM
Quick history lesson...

There was a War on Christmas, it was in 2005-2006. Religious symbols have no place on public property but there was this drive to purge the word "Christmas" out of everything and even demands to remove Christmas trees from various schools/public places.

Yes, that did happen, and it was stupid, and the people who were behind it were arseholes.

I remember repeatedly making the statement "I'm an atheist, the name of the holiday is Christmas, and there is nothing wrong with trees. Get over yourselves"

The effort to completely destroy the word "Christmas" from being used by anyone created a justified backlash but unfortunately the religious cannot let it go so they have to act like the efforts to remove teh baby jesus from the public square where he does not belong are the same as the people who tried to yank Christmas trees out of schools 5-6 years ago.
 
2012-12-23 04:33:04 PM
...

ParaHandy: and (c) the creator of the FSM doesn't actually believe what he wrote.


...I have the truck full of dodo birds and am at the top of the cliff. Are you telling me I should stop now?
 
2012-12-23 04:33:04 PM

bunner: Keizer_Ghidorah: The entire history of Christianity organized religion has been one of persecuting others, assimilating other religions into itself, and trying to spread itself across the world.

F


Don't recall Buddhism doing it, or Hinduism. Christianity, though, took pagan celebrations and stuck the birth and death of Jesus (both of which were movable feasts before then) into them to create Christmas and Easter, as a way to absorb and twist the pagan ways into something "acceptable" to Christianity. Not to forget the missionaries who went to other countries and used threat of death, genocide, starvation, and other means to force the natives to convert to Christianity.
 
2012-12-23 04:34:22 PM
Christmas will happen anyway.
 
2012-12-23 04:36:15 PM

randomjsa: Quick history lesson...

There was a War on Christmas, it was in 2005-2006. Religious symbols have no place on public property but there was this drive to purge the word "Christmas" out of everything and even demands to remove Christmas trees from various schools/public places.

Yes, that did happen, and it was stupid, and the people who were behind it were arseholes.

I remember repeatedly making the statement "I'm an atheist, the name of the holiday is Christmas, and there is nothing wrong with trees. Get over yourselves"

The effort to completely destroy the word "Christmas" from being used by anyone created a justified backlash but unfortunately the religious cannot let it go so they have to act like the efforts to remove teh baby jesus from the public square where he does not belong are the same as the people who tried to yank Christmas trees out of schools 5-6 years ago.


Funny thing? Christians themselves once declared war on Christmas because of its pagan roots (ironically because Christians put the birth of Jesus onto the pagan midwinter celebrations in order to assimilate and convert the pagan celebrations into something "acceptable". And the Puritans did it again in early America, and they rode around destroying all Christmas decorations they could find).
 
2012-12-23 04:37:13 PM

randomjsa: Quick history lesson...

There was a War on Christmas, it was in 2005-2006. Religious symbols have no place on public property but there was this drive to purge the word "Christmas" out of everything and even demands to remove Christmas trees from various schools/public places.

Yes, that did happen, and it was stupid, and the people who were behind it were arseholes.

I remember repeatedly making the statement "I'm an atheist, the name of the holiday is Christmas, and there is nothing wrong with trees. Get over yourselves"

The effort to completely destroy the word "Christmas" from being used by anyone created a justified backlash but unfortunately the religious cannot let it go so they have to act like the efforts to remove teh baby jesus from the public square where he does not belong are the same as the people who tried to yank Christmas trees out of schools 5-6 years ago.



Some people REALLY don't like the first part of that word. Some won't even write it, let alone utter it.
 
2012-12-23 04:37:41 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: bunner: Keizer_Ghidorah: The entire history of Christianity organized religion has been one of persecuting others, assimilating other religions into itself, and trying to spread itself across the world.

F

Don't recall Buddhism doing it, or Hinduism. Christianity, though, took pagan celebrations and stuck the birth and death of Jesus (both of which were movable feasts before then) into them to create Christmas and Easter, as a way to absorb and twist the pagan ways into something "acceptable" to Christianity. Not to forget the missionaries who went to other countries and used threat of death, genocide, starvation, and other means to force the natives to convert to Christianity.


I think we have a different idea about what "organized" means, although I can see your point. As soon as somebody starts passing a plate and demanding you don't ask too many questions, you might be in an organized religion or some corporate behemoth. Regardless of which, it's probably a good idea to run like hell.
 
2012-12-23 04:39:10 PM

bunner: kingoomieiii: perhaps you can actually respond to the message?

With all due respect, nothing about "whatever you think is super dumb" begs much of a response that I can actually say with a straight face.


Then respond without one. It's the internet, I won't even be able to tell.

Unless that's just a cop-out and you don't have an answer.
 
2012-12-23 04:40:43 PM

kingoomieiii: Unless that's just a cop-out and you don't have an answer.


Oh, ffs. Are you still pestering me? OK. An answer to WHAT? Specifically.
 
2012-12-23 04:40:48 PM

Coiled Hot 1: STFU and let people enjoy themselves the way they see fit.


No. We don't allow such a stupid idea in any other context, why should we allow it in this one?
 
2012-12-23 04:40:56 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: bunner: Keizer_Ghidorah: The entire history of Christianity organized religion has been one of persecuting others, assimilating other religions into itself, and trying to spread itself across the world.

F

Don't recall Buddhism doing it, or Hinduism. Christianity, though, took pagan celebrations and stuck the birth and death of Jesus (both of which were movable feasts before then) into them to create Christmas and Easter, as a way to absorb and twist the pagan ways into something "acceptable" to Christianity. Not to forget the missionaries who went to other countries and used threat of death, genocide, starvation, and other means to force the natives to convert to Christianity.



Judaism is the "mother religion" of both Christianity and Islam, and has a proud history of enslaving / genociding outsiders.

See the Torah / Old Testament
 
2012-12-23 04:43:37 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Coiled Hot 1: STFU and let people enjoy themselves the way they see fit.

No. We don't allow such a stupid idea in any other context, why should we allow it in this one?



WAT?
 
2012-12-23 04:44:02 PM

letrole: Atheism is a Religion.


Don't you ever get tired of it? The same troll, every farking atheism thread.

Well, you and your occupational surname have finally done it, something no other farker has accomplished before. I'm done with your trolling, I'm putting you on ignore. My first ignore ever.

I'd suggest everyone else here do the same.
 
2012-12-23 04:45:30 PM

DarkVader: Don't you ever get tired of it? The same troll, every farking atheism thread.

Well, you and your occupational surname have finally done it, something no other farker has accomplished before. I'm done with your trolling, I'm putting you on ignore. My first ignore ever.

I'd suggest everyone else here do the same.



I think that's exactly the sort of attention he craves.
 
2012-12-23 04:46:19 PM

bunner: With all due respect, nothing about "whatever you think is super dumb" begs much of a response that I can actually say with a straight face.


And, with all due respect, I completely stand by it. Whatever superstitious belief you hold, or anyone holds, is laughable when viewed from a rational perspective. History is not kind to any superstition.

"Fire, a natural chemical reaction, was originally stolen from heaven."
"Yeah, there was probably a guy born of a virgin, who cured illnesses, and rose from the dead."
"Yeah, there was probably a god who had a bunch of hybrid children with farm animals out of boredom."
"Oh, the land masses of the Earth were originally giants that fell from the sky into the ocean. Obviously."
 
2012-12-23 04:46:42 PM

RexTalionis: Hey, Christians. Rampant commercialism destroyed Christmas long before atheists even bothered to care.


Didn't the Christians corrupt and hijack the Pagan Winter Solstice Festivals long before commercialism may have corrupted Christmas?
 
2012-12-23 04:47:48 PM

Amos Quito: Keizer_Ghidorah: bunner: Keizer_Ghidorah: The entire history of Christianity organized religion has been one of persecuting others, assimilating other religions into itself, and trying to spread itself across the world.

F

Don't recall Buddhism doing it, or Hinduism. Christianity, though, took pagan celebrations and stuck the birth and death of Jesus (both of which were movable feasts before then) into them to create Christmas and Easter, as a way to absorb and twist the pagan ways into something "acceptable" to Christianity. Not to forget the missionaries who went to other countries and used threat of death, genocide, starvation, and other means to force the natives to convert to Christianity.


Judaism is the "mother religion" of both Christianity and Islam, and has a proud history of enslaving / genociding outsiders.

See the Torah / Old Testament


Exactly. God himself tells his followers to convert others and destroy them if they refuse. But somehow the New Testament/later documents make the OT/older documents obsolete and unapplicable, except for the one sentence that Christians latch onto in order to persecute homosexuals. So the old stuff doesn't apply except when it does, usually as a means to persecute others.

Confused yet?

/blended fabrics, menstruating women, shellfish, disrespectful children, working on the Sabbath: okie-dokie. Homosexuals: BAAAAAAD!
 
2012-12-23 04:48:55 PM

Vodka Zombie: St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Because JESUS!!!


Yeah, usually.

/BTW, don't mention he's Jewish and was probably pretty Arab-looking and possibly gay. Heads exploding isn't very festive. For most, anyway.
 
2012-12-23 04:49:07 PM

DarkVader: letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

Don't you ever get tired of it? The same troll, every farking atheism thread.


Well, aside from the commonly held set of values, gathering together with like minded people, books, pamphlets, endless jockeying for position in the media for people who represent those views, and wholesale pissing and moaning about anything theist, yeah, it's nothing like a religion. It's more like Fair and Balanced™
 
2012-12-23 04:49:14 PM

bunner: kingoomieiii: Unless that's just a cop-out and you don't have an answer.

Oh, ffs. Are you still pestering me? OK. An answer to WHAT? Specifically.


Well, my original post to you (the one you responded to by dancing around with two different fallacious arguments) was intended to run down why exactly your response to the 'non-stamp-collector' argument was a load of shiat. I was wondering if you had an actual response to it, or if you were just going to completely ignore it and make your argument to someone else at a later time, hoping that they wouldn't be able to shoot it down.
 
2012-12-23 04:49:20 PM

whatshisname: DarkVader: Don't you ever get tired of it? The same troll, every farking atheism thread.

Well, you and your occupational surname have finally done it, something no other farker has accomplished before. I'm done with your trolling, I'm putting you on ignore. My first ignore ever.

I'd suggest everyone else here do the same.


I think that's exactly the sort of attention he craves.


He craves to be ignored? I doubt it, since the easiest way to be ignored is to post nothing.
 
2012-12-23 04:50:13 PM

bunner: DarkVader: letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

Don't you ever get tired of it? The same troll, every farking atheism thread.

Well, aside from the commonly held set of values, gathering together with like minded people, books, pamphlets, endless jockeying for position in the media for people who represent those views, and wholesale pissing and moaning about anything theist, yeah, it's nothing like a religion. It's more like Fair and Balanced™


letrole enters every atheism thread with that EXACT post, is the point. And his name is LETROLE. For some reason people respond every time.
 
2012-12-23 04:50:57 PM

doglover: phaseolus: swaniefrmreddeerDoesn't sound like they're much fun after all. I don't think I will take another look. Thanks!

What you want is the neopagans. Preferably Druids.

They're know for sittin' naked in the woods drinkin' strange fermented fluids.


They don't stay sitting.

/likes me some tattoo'd naked pagan girls over the solstice.
 
2012-12-23 04:52:13 PM
thoughtcatalogcom.files.wordpress.com

See the 2nd point
 
2012-12-23 04:52:14 PM

Harry_Seldon: RexTalionis: Hey, Christians. Rampant commercialism destroyed Christmas long before atheists even bothered to care.

Didn't the Christians corrupt and hijack the Pagan Winter Solstice Festivals long before commercialism may have corrupted Christmas?


Yes, but that was before, you know, Christmas. We're talking about Christmas, here. (In a long-way-'roundabout way.)

/Putting down popcorn, going outside for beer'n'smoke. See you farkers later!
//Happy holidays, or just days.
///Nights, too.
 
2012-12-23 04:53:09 PM

Savage Belief: Shazam999: They don't really seem pro-atheist as they mostly anti-religion.

That'd be me. Faith is cool but keep your religion over there.


Seconded. The Jainists and the Quakers don't hammer on my door or want me to buy a subscription, which is probably best as I tend to let my robe fall open on such occasions.

Made a convert once.
 
2012-12-23 04:54:58 PM
Didn't read the article, skipped 3 pages of the comments so I could simply say:

Thank you, Christians, for wanting to include me (an atheist) in your joy & celebrating. Same for the Jewish & Islamic & the pagans & the folks who celebrate Kwanzaa. Thank you for not telling me I am wrong, as I would never tell you that you are wrong (though we may both be thinking it!). But most importantly, thank you for allowing me a paid day off from work that allows me to either spend time with family & friends or to completely ignore them :)
 
2012-12-23 04:56:22 PM

kingoomieiii: bunner: With all due respect, nothing about "whatever you think is super dumb" begs much of a response that I can actually say with a straight face.

And, with all due respect, I completely stand by it. Whatever superstitious belief you hold, or anyone holds, is laughable when viewed from a rational perspective. History is not kind to any superstition.

"Fire, a natural chemical reaction, was originally stolen from heaven."
"Yeah, there was probably a guy born of a virgin, who cured illnesses, and rose from the dead."
"Yeah, there was probably a god who had a bunch of hybrid children with farm animals out of boredom."
"Oh, the land masses of the Earth were originally giants that fell from the sky into the ocean. Obviously."


That's nice.

I mean, it's not a question that begfs a response, just anoehr dime store manifesto but, that's nice. you don't really NEED me around to make it true, do you?

Here's a few.

"First there was absolutely nothing which, despite all laws that we understand govern the states of physical matter, became everything." "What about before that?" "Um, well, it certainly wasn't any sort of mystical being. We can prove that." "How?" "Oh, you are super dumb." "All this shiat evolved from some carbon and water that suddenly got a huge bug up it's ass and decided to mutate into about 290457892783498579028375689724958 different things from single cells." "Uh, otay, Pokey."

And see, if that's what happened, I'm sort of fine with that. But it is no more credible if you step back far enough, that we're some really huge sky person's science project. And I'm fine with that, too. The fact that you desperately need to fly one half of the false dichotomy from your car antenna just doesn't impress me.

Nor should it.

It sounds like, what's the word, evangelicalism.
 
2012-12-23 04:56:25 PM

bunner: DarkVader: letrole: Atheism is a Religion.

Don't you ever get tired of it? The same troll, every farking atheism thread.

Well, aside from the commonly held set of values, gathering together with like minded people, books, pamphlets, endless jockeying for position in the media for people who represent those views, and wholesale pissing and moaning about anything theist, yeah, it's nothing like a religion. It's more like Fair and Balanced™


If you want to go there, dungeons and dragons is a religion. Stamp collecting is a religion. Flying airplanes is a religion. Sex is a religion. Football, basketball, baseball, swimming, soccer are all religions.

Or you could accept reality, and understand that none of those characteristics make something a religion, none of the things I listed are religions, and atheism is, by definition, the lack of any religion.
 
2012-12-23 04:56:58 PM

Iron Felix: Atheists who try to get all up in peoples' faces about it are just as bad as religious nuts who try to get all up in peoples' faces abut it.


I don't think I've ever heard that point made before. Certainly not here.
 
2012-12-23 04:58:20 PM

kingoomieiii: your response to the 'non-stamp-collector' argument was a load of shiat.


You know what kid? You're about to go on vacation because K Mart bargain shelf insults are not intellectual acuity, discourse or interesting. Seriously. Sell it to the kids in English class after Christmas vacation.
 
2012-12-23 04:58:39 PM
With millions, if not thousands, of devout worshippers, the Church of the FSM is widely considered a legitimate religion, even by its opponents-mostly fundamentalist Christians, who have accepted that our God has larger balls than theirs.

-Bobby Henderson
 
2012-12-23 04:59:01 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Amos Quito: Keizer_Ghidorah: bunner: Keizer_Ghidorah: The entire history of Christianity organized religion has been one of persecuting others, assimilating other religions into itself, and trying to spread itself across the world.

F

Don't recall Buddhism doing it, or Hinduism. Christianity, though, took pagan celebrations and stuck the birth and death of Jesus (both of which were movable feasts before then) into them to create Christmas and Easter, as a way to absorb and twist the pagan ways into something "acceptable" to Christianity. Not to forget the missionaries who went to other countries and used threat of death, genocide, starvation, and other means to force the natives to convert to Christianity.


Judaism is the "mother religion" of both Christianity and Islam, and has a proud history of enslaving / genociding outsiders.

See the Torah / Old Testament

Exactly. God himself tells his followers to convert others and destroy them if they refuse. But somehow the New Testament/later documents make the OT/older documents obsolete and unapplicable, except for the one sentence that Christians latch onto in order to persecute homosexuals. So the old stuff doesn't apply except when it does, usually as a means to persecute others.

Confused yet?

/blended fabrics, menstruating women, shellfish, disrespectful children, working on the Sabbath: okie-dokie. Homosexuals: BAAAAAAD!



Personally, I view the religion (or non) of others pretty much the same way that I view their sexuality:  I don't give a rat's ass.
 
2012-12-23 04:59:15 PM
If atheism is a religion, could someone point me in the direction of laws, traditions, celebrations, ethics & lore that I obviously should be following...? Apart from living my life day to day, I mean...
 
2012-12-23 04:59:32 PM

DarkVader: atheism is, by definition, the lack of any religion.


And governance is, by definition, public service to the greater good. *snort* And that's nice.
 
2012-12-23 05:00:38 PM

Rufus Lee King: Medic Zero: You mean like all those fine folks who can't speak a sentence without a "praise the lord" or somesuch included?

I don't know any of these folks you mention. I'm fifty-five years old, and have never met one.


Oh. Well, they must not exist then. Because your 55 years of life experience equals the sum total of all human existence.
 
2012-12-23 05:01:42 PM
Things that have happened on December 25th:
1837 - 37 people killed in the Battle of Lake Okeechobee between American forces and the Seminole Indians
1932 - An earthquake in China killed 275 people
1968 - 42 people are burned alive in a village in India
1996 - JonBenet Ramsey was murdered

WC Fields, Charles Chaplin, Billy Martin, Dean Martin, James Brown and Eartha Kitt all died on December 25th as well

Merry X-MAS
 
2012-12-23 05:03:35 PM

rko281: I'd actually be an atheist if I could somehow muster that kind of deep, unquestioning faith that I was absolutely, infallibly right and there were no other possibilities.


You'd be a terrible atheist, as you think it involves "deep, unquestioning faith". Most of us have chosen atheism because we are reasonable, and reason precludes deep unquestioning faith.
 
2012-12-23 05:03:49 PM

Mambo Bananapatch: Rufus Lee King: Medic Zero: You mean like all those fine folks who can't speak a sentence without a "praise the lord" or somesuch included?

I don't know any of these folks you mention. I'm fifty-five years old, and have never met one.

Oh. Well, they must not exist then. Because your 55 years of life experience equals the sum total of all human existence.


It may not be the sum of all human existence, but it is the sum of HIS/HER experience & as such, should not be completely discounted in keeping up with the speaker's context/perception. Y'know, kind of like how religious/non-religious folks should treat each other....

/atheist here
 
2012-12-23 05:04:31 PM

bunner: kingoomieiii: your response to the 'non-stamp-collector' argument was a load of shiat.

You know what kid? You're about to go on vacation because K Mart bargain shelf insults are not intellectual acuity, discourse or interesting. Seriously. Sell it to the kids in English class after Christmas vacation.


I don't have to reach into 19th century lit when you've done me the solid of already being completely wrong.
 
2012-12-23 05:04:36 PM
everything about Christmas is awesome I'm sorry your families suck and you don't want to be around them but don't ruin it for the rest of us.
 
2012-12-23 05:05:54 PM

bunner: You know what kid


Oh, and insulting word choice (again) while tossing out the classic "Alright, kiddo" is actually pretty funny, if you did it on purpose.
 
2012-12-23 05:06:28 PM

kingoomieiii: I don't have to reach into 19th century lit when you've done me the solid of already being completely wrong.


Well, as long as you're not just trolling and looking for a place to fling poo and say " 1 AM s0 teh W1nz0r!" : )
 
2012-12-23 05:07:09 PM

LisaNeedsBraces: Mambo Bananapatch: Rufus Lee King: Medic Zero: You mean like all those fine folks who can't speak a sentence without a "praise the lord" or somesuch included?

I don't know any of these folks you mention. I'm fifty-five years old, and have never met one.

Oh. Well, they must not exist then. Because your 55 years of life experience equals the sum total of all human existence.

It may not be the sum of all human existence, but it is the sum of HIS/HER experience & as such, should not be completely discounted in keeping up with the speaker's context/perception. Y'know, kind of like how religious/non-religious folks should treat each other....

/atheist here


I've never met a Masai warrior. What does that prove, and what would that fact contribute to a discussion about the Masai?
 
2012-12-23 05:08:15 PM

Mambo Bananapatch: LisaNeedsBraces: Mambo Bananapatch: Rufus Lee King: Medic Zero: You mean like all those fine folks who can't speak a sentence without a "praise the lord" or somesuch included?

I don't know any of these folks you mention. I'm fifty-five years old, and have never met one.

Oh. Well, they must not exist then. Because your 55 years of life experience equals the sum total of all human existence.

It may not be the sum of all human existence, but it is the sum of HIS/HER experience & as such, should not be completely discounted in keeping up with the speaker's context/perception. Y'know, kind of like how religious/non-religious folks should treat each other....

/atheist here

I've never met a Masai warrior. What does that prove, and what would that fact contribute to a discussion about the Masai?


Well now, that depends on how much education you are willing to expose yourself to to learn about something completely new to you :)
 
2012-12-23 05:08:18 PM

ParaHandy: With millions, if not thousands, of devout worshippers, the Church of the FSM is widely considered a legitimate religion, even by its opponents-mostly fundamentalist Christians, who have accepted that our God has larger balls than theirs.

-Bobby Henderson


Alright, but I'm asking you about the damned dodo birds! Do I dump 'em, or what?

/Seriously leaving now. Be back later.
//Son of a...they Don't always come in threes!
 
2012-12-23 05:09:26 PM
Look, kingoomieiii, I realize that this whole "I CAN SAY WHATEVER I WANT ON THE INTERNET" thing is probably a big deal to some of you, still, but garage sale table assertions and cheap insults do not an argument make. At all. And your ass is hanging out. Now stop trolling me.
 
2012-12-23 05:09:51 PM

Darth_Lukecash: So you can scientifically prove that Santa lives at the North Pole?

Being a story does not exclude it from being a lie.


No.

I can't scientifically prove hobbits live in Middle Earth. So "The Hobbit" is a lie. I can't scientifically prove there are vampires. So "Dracula" is a lie. I can't scientifically prove there are fairies. So "Midsummer Night's Dream" is a lie. I can't prove there are trolls, so "Beowulf" is a lie, and since Circe obviously never existed, the "Odyssey" must be a lie as well.

Merely because something is untrue in the scientific sense does not mean it is a "lie" in the moral, ethical or legal sense. This weird idea that telling kids stories about Santa Claus is identical to telling them stories about baby Jesus which is ALSO identical to telling them God hates homosexuals really gives both Santa and religion way too much power, imo. A story is not a lie in the same way Nixon saying "I am not a crook" is a lie, or in the same way Pat Robertson saying a hurricane is God's punishment for homosexuality is a lie. Letting kids believe a fat old man lives at the North Pole and hands out gifts--and then letting them learn that some stories are not true on their own--is probably better for them in the long run than telling them "That's a lie and everything grown ups tell you is a lie." It's an early lesson in critical thinking.

Or it could be, if overanxious adults weren't so eager to conflate fairy tales with lies.
 
2012-12-23 05:10:02 PM
Everyone take a deep breath. Hold it...count to ten...okay let it out. Repeat as necessary. Thanks.
 
2012-12-23 05:11:16 PM

Amos Quito: Personally, I view the religion (or non) of others pretty much the same way that I view their sexuality: I don't give a rat's ass.


Same here, but it's hard to not care when people are trying to force it to become the law of the land and for everyone to become part of it. It's like everything else, don't get in my face with it unless I want to have it in my face.

bunner: That's nice.

I mean, it's not a question that begfs a response, just anoehr dime store manifesto but, that's nice. you don't really NEED me around to make it true, do you?

Here's a few.

"First there was absolutely nothing which, despite all laws that we understand govern the states of physical matter, became everything." "What about before that?" "Um, well, it certainly wasn't any sort of mystical being. We can prove that." "How?" "Oh, you are super dumb." "All this shiat evolved from some carbon and water that suddenly got a huge bug up it's ass and decided to mutate into about 290457892783498579028375689724958 different things from single cells." "Uh, otay, Pokey."

And see, if that's what happened, I'm sort of fine with that. But it is no more credible if you step back far enough, that we're some really huge sky person's science project. And I'm fine with that, too. The fact that you desperately need to fly one half of the false dichotomy from your car antenna just doesn't impress me.

Nor should it.

It sounds like, what's the word, evangelicalism.


No, it's intelligence and common sense. There is no evidence of any kind of divine, all-powerful being except in thousand-of-years-old texts. And what's in those texts is often contradictory and paints a less-than-flattering portrait of said beings. Also, those beings only started to appear after humans became intelligent enough to start imagining and dreaming.
 
2012-12-23 05:11:35 PM

LisaNeedsBraces: Mambo Bananapatch: LisaNeedsBraces: Mambo Bananapatch: Rufus Lee King: Medic Zero: You mean like all those fine folks who can't speak a sentence without a "praise the lord" or somesuch included?

I don't know any of these folks you mention. I'm fifty-five years old, and have never met one.

Oh. Well, they must not exist then. Because your 55 years of life experience equals the sum total of all human existence.

It may not be the sum of all human existence, but it is the sum of HIS/HER experience & as such, should not be completely discounted in keeping up with the speaker's context/perception. Y'know, kind of like how religious/non-religious folks should treat each other....

/atheist here

I've never met a Masai warrior. What does that prove, and what would that fact contribute to a discussion about the Masai?

Well now, that depends on how much education you are willing to expose yourself to to learn about something completely new to you :)


Exactly. Thank you.
 
2012-12-23 05:11:45 PM

Moderator: Everyone take a deep breath. Hold it...count to ten...okay let it out. Repeat as necessary. Thanks.


You know? That sort of works.
 
2012-12-23 05:12:56 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: No, it's intelligence and common sense. There is no evidence of any kind of divine, all-powerful being except in thousand-of-years-old texts. And what's in those texts is often contradictory and paints a less-than-flattering portrait of said beings. Also, those beings only started to appear after humans became intelligent enough to start imagining and dreaming.


Well I'm glad SOMEBODY was there. You got any snaps?
 
2012-12-23 05:14:58 PM

Valiente: Vodka Zombie: St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Because JESUS!!!

Yeah, usually.

/BTW, don't mention he's Jewish and was probably pretty Arab-looking and possibly gay. Heads exploding isn't very festive. For most, anyway.


Nah, he dated Mary Magdalene.

Paul was gay though, and ironically so was the commissioner of the Christian bible, James VI. He ordered it to stop two local religious factions (Catholic / CoE and Protestant) from starting a civil war, and the "Word of God(tm)" oft quoted verbatim is actually a very loose translation into 16th century English of various carefully picked ancient texts, manipulated to suit the politics of the day.
 
2012-12-23 05:16:15 PM
I really couldn't care less about what people believe runs this universe, or how obstinately ignorant people can be about obvious, proven, scientific fact (evolution). Everybody has a right to be as crazy/retarded as they want to be as long as nobody gets hurt. I politely decline flyers from various nuts all year and never feel the need to correct anyone's assumptions about what Jesus' favorite dinosaur was to ride to work.

Its when I hear someone with authority start preaching while operating in their authoritarian capacity that angers me. Like when I hear a small town judge at night court tell some teenager "That's not Gods plan." as I did last week. I want to peel the flesh off his back, nail him to the top of a picnic table and set it on end at the top of a hill then proceed to poke him with a sharp stick and ask "WHERE IS YOUR FARKING GOD NOW YOU DISGUSTING PIECE OF SHIAT?"
 
2012-12-23 05:16:38 PM

Mambo Bananapatch: LisaNeedsBraces: Mambo Bananapatch: LisaNeedsBraces: Mambo Bananapatch: Rufus Lee King: Medic Zero: You mean like all those fine folks who can't speak a sentence without a "praise the lord" or somesuch included?

I don't know any of these folks you mention. I'm fifty-five years old, and have never met one.

Oh. Well, they must not exist then. Because your 55 years of life experience equals the sum total of all human existence.

It may not be the sum of all human existence, but it is the sum of HIS/HER experience & as such, should not be completely discounted in keeping up with the speaker's context/perception. Y'know, kind of like how religious/non-religious folks should treat each other....

/atheist here

I've never met a Masai warrior. What does that prove, and what would that fact contribute to a discussion about the Masai?

Well now, that depends on how much education you are willing to expose yourself to to learn about something completely new to you :)

Exactly. Thank you.


I should clarify: the want of educating one's self should come from BOTH sides of an argument/debate. One's person's experience, or lack thereof, doesn't make their opinion obsolete - it just makes them less informed as to other worldly goings-ons that others have experienced. I'm honestly glad the 55 year old hasn't experienced that kind of BS - so long as they are a better person from it :)
 
2012-12-23 05:17:10 PM

bunner: Look, kingoomieiii, I realize that this whole "I CAN SAY WHATEVER I WANT ON THE INTERNET" thing is probably a big deal to some of you, still, but garage sale table assertions and cheap insults do not an argument make. At all. And your ass is hanging out. Now stop trolling me.


We just enjoy making fun of the afflicted. Welcome to Fark.

"Religion is an excellent tool for keeping the commoners quiet" -- Napoleon Bonaparte
 
2012-12-23 05:17:52 PM

bunner: Keizer_Ghidorah: No, it's intelligence and common sense. There is no evidence of any kind of divine, all-powerful being except in thousand-of-years-old texts. And what's in those texts is often contradictory and paints a less-than-flattering portrait of said beings. Also, those beings only started to appear after humans became intelligent enough to start imagining and dreaming.

Well I'm glad SOMEBODY was there. You got any snaps?


What does being there have to do with it? Science and logic, along with the history of Earth, shows that there's no evidence of super-duper beings. Earth is 4.5 billion years old, not 6,000 years. That alone throws the Christian side out the window.
 
2012-12-23 05:17:52 PM

letrole: gad: Atheists are doing what they need to do to be heard and to gain some position in the society.

bunner: So stop trying to get a gold star from the people you insist oppress and loathe you. It makes you look silly.

Atheists demand respect and expect acceptance of their beliefs. Atheists feel dirty inside. All the anger, the forced arrogance, the belligerence -- it's simply shame turned inside out.


You're cute
 
2012-12-23 05:18:19 PM

thisisarepeat: Its when I hear someone with authority start preaching while operating in their authoritarian capacity that angers me. Like when I hear a small town judge at night court tell some teenager "That's not Gods plan." as I did last week. I want to peel the flesh off his back, nail him to the top of a picnic table and set it on end at the top of a hill then proceed to poke him with a sharp stick and ask "WHERE IS YOUR FARKING GOD NOW YOU DISGUSTING PIECE OF SHIAT?"


Worked for the Romans. : )
 
2012-12-23 05:20:03 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: What does being there have to do with it? Science and logic, along with the history of Earth, shows that there's no evidence of super-duper beings. Earth is 4.5 billion years old, not 6,000 years. That alone throws the Christian side out the window.


But.. teh AL1ENS! See, the thing is, the only one provable thing in this whole maelstrom of "huh UH!" is we don't really know. We do, it seems NEED to know, though. I think we should focus on that.
 
2012-12-23 05:20:52 PM

bunner: "All this shiat evolved from some carbon and water that suddenly got a huge bug up it's ass and decided to mutate into about 290457892783498579028375689724958 different things from single cells." "Uh, otay, Pokey."


Carbon is everything. Most fats are composed almost entirely of carbon and hydrogen. Most proteins are carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen in different arrangements. Hell, METH is just  C10H15N. The chemicals of life are built from what's floating around in the atmosphere and mixing with the water.

Do yourself a take an introductory biochem course. Or some light reading. Evolution isn't hard at all. Take some naturally-occurring minerals in some water and hit them with lightning. BOOM, amino acids. Notable in chemistry for their ability to self-arrange into polypeptide chains of arbitrary length. Leave an entire lake's worth, or ocean's worth, of them chaotically bouncing off of each other and rearranging for, say, 50,000 years and it becomes a bad bet that a self-replicating chain DIDN'T form at some point.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_evolution

And, listen. I don't know if there's a god. I just think it's complete lunacy for someone to tell me, based on their access to the same evidence that I have, that THEY not only KNOW that god exists, but they have an extremely specific list of that god's likes and dislikes, and there's some kind of reward for me at the end if I follow the rules. And punishment if I don't.

Based on my complete lack of any evidence that this life isn't it, I tend to live my life under the assumption that it is, that there's nothing after.
 
2012-12-23 05:22:47 PM
The Christians started it, with their War on Thursday. As soon as we put Thor back in Thursday, we can put Christ back in Christmas.
 
2012-12-23 05:22:55 PM

kingoomieiii: Do yourself a take an introductory biochem course.


You know what? You can pretend I'm ill read and clueless about science until your guns bleed, but false assertions are the lead ankle weights of debate. Didn't you know?
 
2012-12-23 05:24:26 PM

kingoomieiii: Based on my complete lack of any evidence that this life isn't it, I tend to live my life under the assumption that it is, that there's nothing after.


Yes, fine but, NOTHING IMPORTANT HAPPENED THERE. Get it?
 
2012-12-23 05:26:13 PM

bunner: kingoomieiii: Do yourself a take an introductory biochem course.

You know what? You can pretend I'm ill read and clueless about science until your guns bleed, but false assertions are the lead ankle weights of debate. Didn't you know?


If you took a biochem course and then came to Fark to talk about how cuh-ray-zee the notion of natural evolution is, I hope they didn't let you pass that class.
 
2012-12-23 05:27:12 PM

bunner: kingoomieiii: Based on my complete lack of any evidence that this life isn't it, I tend to live my life under the assumption that it is, that there's nothing after.

Yes, fine but, NOTHING IMPORTANT HAPPENED THERE. Get it?


Be more specific.
 
2012-12-23 05:28:32 PM

bunner: but false assertions are the lead ankle weights of debate.


You've been calling me a kid the last two pages.
 
2012-12-23 05:28:45 PM

kingoomieiii: Iyou took a biochem course and then came to Fark to talk about how cuh-ray-zee the notion of natural evolution is


transitionculture.org

OH YES YOU DID! THAT'S WHAT YOU DID! SEE?


Could you leave a post-it note next to my bed when you're through?
 
2012-12-23 05:29:40 PM

Bonobo62: The Christians started it, with their War on Thursday. As soon as we put Thor back in Thursday, we can put Christ back in Christmas.


Can we put the satyr back in Satyrday?
 
2012-12-23 05:30:31 PM

kingoomieiii: bunner: but false assertions are the lead ankle weights of debate.

You've been calling me a kid the last two pages.


You've been trolling me like some mouthy kid who thinks they solved the universe from a semester of community college science classes. What did you expect? Can you rehearse your obvious intellectual superiority pose on somebody else's dime?
 
2012-12-23 05:31:22 PM

The One True TheDavid: Please please please make Christmas a religious holiday again.


Whose religious holiday? ...Of the romans? Kelts? Vikings?

Why not just celebrate an annual astronomical event and leave it at that? That's what it's for, anyway.
 
2012-12-23 05:31:48 PM
www.venganza.org
 
2012-12-23 05:31:49 PM

bunner: kingoomieiii: Iyou took a biochem course and then came to Fark to talk about how cuh-ray-zee the notion of natural evolution is

OH YES YOU DID! THAT'S WHAT YOU DID! SEE?


That's not even close to a strawman. You lumped the notion of abiogenesis in with the big bang theory in the same sentence, and framed them both as positions as ludicrous as any religious dogma.
 
2012-12-23 05:33:07 PM

bunner: Keizer_Ghidorah: What does being there have to do with it? Science and logic, along with the history of Earth, shows that there's no evidence of super-duper beings. Earth is 4.5 billion years old, not 6,000 years. That alone throws the Christian side out the window.

But.. teh AL1ENS! See, the thing is, the only one provable thing in this whole maelstrom of "huh UH!" is we don't really know. We do, it seems NEED to know, though. I think we should focus on that.


Some things make more sense than others. Especially when there's far more evidence and actual observational material for some things than others. But of course, you could say "God makes us see things the way HE wants us to see them", so he's deliberately tricking us for whatever reason. If he really wanted humanity to worship him without question, he could just appear to the world or snap his fingers and make us. "Free will!", you speak? It's hardly free when we're threatened with eternal indescribable torture for doing anything that's not groveling to God for our entire lives.

And if God does exist, then so do Odin, Zeus, Quetzacoatl, Ra, and all the others. God himself said that the other deities are real, and he doesn't like us worshiping them instead of him.
 
2012-12-23 05:34:04 PM

bunner: kingoomieiii: bunner: but false assertions are the lead ankle weights of debate.

You've been calling me a kid the last two pages.

You've been trolling me like some mouthy kid who thinks they solved the universe from a semester of community college science classes. What did you expect?


A little self-awareness from you?
 
2012-12-23 05:36:08 PM
I'm a WASP athiest, so therefore I have no problem with religion, Christmas, Santa Clause, etc. As a madder of fact, I love Christmas. These 'athiest' who have a problem with traditional wester culture, I.e 'white' culture are mainly jews.
 
2012-12-23 05:37:23 PM

Tyranicle: I'm a WASP athiest, so therefore I have no problem with religion, Christmas, Santa Clause, etc. As a madder of fact, I love Christmas. These 'athiest' who have a problem with traditional wester culture, I.e 'white' culture are mainly jews.


That started weird and went downhill fast.
 
2012-12-23 05:38:00 PM

Tyranicle: I'm a WASP athiest, so therefore I have no problem with religion, Christmas, Santa Clause, etc. As a madder of fact, I love Christmas. These 'athiest' who have a problem with traditional wester culture, I.e 'white' culture are mainly jews.


Trolling troll goes a-trollin'?
 
2012-12-23 05:38:59 PM

swaniefrmreddeer: We atheists get the blame for everything bad that happens. The talking head fungelicals were on TV mere hours after some nut bag shoots up a school, to say it was our fault. F*ck them, they are what is wrong with this world, not the people who value reason over superstition. I have no respect for magical thinking, it is wrong and dangerous.


Who are you going to complain to about it? God?
 
2012-12-23 05:39:13 PM

kingoomieiii: bunner: kingoomieiii: Iyou took a biochem course and then came to Fark to talk about how cuh-ray-zee the notion of natural evolution is

OH YES YOU DID! THAT'S WHAT YOU DID! SEE?

That's not even close to a strawman. You lumped the notion of abiogenesis in with the big bang theory in the same sentence, and framed them both as positions as ludicrous as any religious dogma.


They are. Nothing turning into everything is just as ludicrous as some big guy with a beard knocking together a petri dish with us in it. It really, really is. The fact that you need to rabidly attack me with false assertions, strawmen ("Oh so you're saying that...") IS a strawman, kid) and to equate being annoying and insulting with some sort of intellectual acuity got boring about 20 posts ago. Kid. And frankly, nothing says "Um, this guy is a little too worked up about this" like being a rabid, pushy dolt. It's an absolute plastic bag over the head of anything like a self evidently valid argument, Ask anybody who has chased Mormons away from his door. So... here is where I shut your silly ass off and the universe continues to do whatever it's doing and you say "z0mG!11 I am s0 teh W1N cause he had to like IGNOR3 ME!" You get the feeling I've sat through this movie before? : )
 
2012-12-23 05:39:21 PM

Tyranicle: I'm a WASP athiest, so therefore I have no problem with religion, Christmas, Santa Clause, etc. As a madder of fact, I love Christmas. These 'athiest' who have a problem with traditional wester culture, I.e 'white' culture are mainly jews.


Oh, also, most countries in Asia do christmas even harder than we do. It's easily celebrated by more people in China than all of the white people on earth who celebrate it.
 
2012-12-23 05:40:12 PM

kingoomieiii: A little self-awareness from you?


I was 19 once. This, too shall pass. Bye, kid. : )
 
2012-12-23 05:40:21 PM

bunner: gad: Atheists are doing what they need to do to be heard and to gain some position in the society.

Why? what has "society" fixed lately? What has it enforced that it should? Where has evolved positively? What has it sone well or improved upon? I think that everybody who has picked up their chosen Certificate of Disenfranchisement™ actually thinks that there's some dandy, Über normal cocktail party going on somewhere and that as soon as they have successfully pissed and moaned and marched for "ABSOLUTE, UNQUESTIONING, UNCONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE", that they'll be patted on the back and given a comfy chair and a martini. I hate to piss in your petunias, but the nebulous construct of "the people who run things" is astoundingly inaccurate, has nothing to do with religion, sexuality or color and they still ain't going to like you and most of them don't like each other. So stop trying to get a gold star from the people you insist oppress and loathe you. It makes you look silly.


Actually, there is such a cocktail party. I attended it once, due to the fact that I have a close relative who's worth over $20 million dollars. Those people really do own the world, and they can get, or do, anything they want. They also have loathing and contempt for poor people, and enjoy the idea that their share of the pie is becoming huger and huger.
 
2012-12-23 05:40:57 PM
Um, thank you, Warchild!
 
2012-12-23 05:41:21 PM

bunner: They are. Nothing turning into everything is just as ludicrous as some big guy with a beard knocking together a petri dish with us in it. It really, really is. The fact that you need to rabidly attack me with false assertions, strawmen ("Oh so you're saying that...") IS a strawman, kid) and to equate being annoying and insulting with some sort of intellectual acuity got boring about 20 posts ago. Kid. And frankly, nothing says "Um, this guy is a little too worked up about this" like being a rabid, pushy dolt. It's an absolute plastic bag over the head of anything like a self evidently valid argument, Ask anybody who has chased Mormons away from his door. So... here is where I shut your silly ass off and the universe continues to do whatever it's doing and you say "z0mG!11 I am s0 teh W1N cause he had to like IGNOR3 ME!" You get the feeling I've sat through this movie before? : )


It's so much goddamned fun playing chess with someone who only knows the rules for checkers.
 
2012-12-23 05:41:26 PM

bunner: Keizer_Ghidorah: What does being there have to do with it? Science and logic, along with the history of Earth, shows that there's no evidence of super-duper beings. Earth is 4.5 billion years old, not 6,000 years. That alone throws the Christian side out the window.

But.. teh AL1ENS! See, the thing is, the only one provable thing in this whole maelstrom of "huh UH!" is we don't really know. We do, it seems NEED to know, though. I think we should focus on that.


What we do know is already enough to reduce the scope of possibility of deities to the minimum possible: ones that exist outside our universe (or multiverse) and basically pressed the PLAY button and set it going like a little clockwork. Whether such a deity exists or not is a completely moot question of metaphysics, since they have no impact on what goes on in our world.

What religions do to try to maintain their credibility and reconcile their myths with reality is to back pedal .... "the writer of Genesis didn't really mean the earth is only 6,000 years old, it's an allegory" or "it's ok to wear polyester now, and you can no longer keep slaves, but gays are still bad" and "we changed our minds, yes the bible says the earth is round" once they could no longer contain the truth.

There is nothing super special about earth, and so it seems likely that life exists on other planets given their vast numbers (astronomers estimates just went up another order of magnitude or so recently). However, until I see evidence of it, I remain skeptical.

Similarly, any true scientist like me is definitionally agnostic (if evidence is found, then we'll believe) and an atheist based on current evidence (people have been trying to prove the existence of tens of thousands of deities for thousands of years, and not a single shred of evidence for any of them has turned up). The odds are not looking good for the sky fairies.

The value of hypothesis about how the universe works is in its ability to enable us to predict and control it. For example, Christian prayer has been scientifically tested hundreds of times in the last few decades and has never beaten the null hypothesis in outcomes. Thus, the hypothesis that there is a Christian god who can be coerced or persuaded by prayer can be roundly rejected.

Quantum mechanics sounds just as fanciful as religion - even Einstein famously said "God does not play dice". However, it became established science, and so he changed his position. In later life, he also became an atheist.
 
2012-12-23 05:43:08 PM

Huggermugger: Actually, there is such a cocktail party. I attended it once, due to the fact that I have a close relative who's worth over $20 million dollars. Those people really do own the world, and they can get, or do, anything they want. They also have loathing and contempt for poor people, and enjoy the idea that their share of the pie is becoming huger and huger.


Yes, but that religion is money and if anybody wants to wage war on greedy, self important c*nts, I'll pop for gas money and printing ink.
 
2012-12-23 05:44:43 PM
Atheism is a Religion. A piss-poor Religion, but a Religion regardless.

The amusing part is where an almost endless supply of Schoolboy Atheists will launch into ever-decreasing circles of denial, and exercises of semantics worthy of any medieval theologian.
 
2012-12-23 05:46:12 PM

verbaltoxin: [www.venganza.org image 600x828]


Ok, that one is farking funny, I hadn't seen it before.

Huggermugger: bunner: gad: Atheists are doing what they need to do to be heard and to gain some position in the society.

Why? what has "society" fixed lately? What has it enforced that it should? Where has evolved positively? What has it sone well or improved upon? I think that everybody who has picked up their chosen Certificate of Disenfranchisement™ actually thinks that there's some dandy, Über normal cocktail party going on somewhere and that as soon as they have successfully pissed and moaned and marched for "ABSOLUTE, UNQUESTIONING, UNCONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE", that they'll be patted on the back and given a comfy chair and a martini. I hate to piss in your petunias, but the nebulous construct of "the people who run things" is astoundingly inaccurate, has nothing to do with religion, sexuality or color and they still ain't going to like you and most of them don't like each other. So stop trying to get a gold star from the people you insist oppress and loathe you. It makes you look silly.

Actually, there is such a cocktail party. I attended it once, due to the fact that I have a close relative who's worth over $20 million dollars. Those people really do own the world, and they can get, or do, anything they want. They also have loathing and contempt for poor people, and enjoy the idea that their share of the pie is becoming huger and huger.


Not all of them ....

www.biography.com   www.buzzreactor.com
 
2012-12-23 05:46:14 PM

ParaHandy: There is nothing super special about earth,


Huh. From what I've been informed of by every single science organization you can name, Earth, at least from our limited perspective, since we live here, is ASTOUNDINGLY special.
 
2012-12-23 05:48:23 PM

letrole: Atheism is a Religion. A piss-poor Religion, but a Religion regardless.

The amusing part is where an almost endless supply of Schoolboy Atheists will launch into ever-decreasing circles of denial, and exercises of semantics worthy of any medieval theologian.


Bullshiat. There is no evidence whatsoever for any of the supernatural deities or events claimed by any religion ever. No semantic twisting needed. Just the facts ma'am.
 
2012-12-23 05:48:53 PM

letrole: Atheism is a Religion. A piss-poor Religion, but a Religion regardless.


You know what's sad? It's not nearly as piss poor, brought about so much hatred, abuse and wretchedness as this religion.

www.thenader.com

Money is truly the mother of all piss poor gods.
 
2012-12-23 05:51:38 PM

bunner: letrole: Atheism is a Religion. A piss-poor Religion, but a Religion regardless.

You know what's sad? It's not nearly as piss poor, brought about so much hatred, abuse and wretchedness as this religion.

[www.thenader.com image 700x302]

Money is truly the mother of all piss poor gods.


If you don't like that particular religious overlord to dictate your life, feel free to unload all of that dirty money - preferably into my bank account. ;)

/not arguing with you, just making a (probably bad) funny.
 
2012-12-23 05:52:19 PM
ParaHandy: Quantum mechanics sounds just as fanciful as religion - even Einstein famously said "God does not play dice". However, it became established science, and so he changed his position. In later life, he also became an atheist.


"Anybody else feel like they shouldn't have worn a jumper today?"
-- Albert Einstein, burning in Hell

"It's not the humidity, it's the infernal heat that makes it so hot".
-- Albert Einstein, adjusting a broken thermostat whilst burning in Hell

"How's it going, Hitler?"
-- Albert Einstein, making friends whilst burning in Hell.

"What I wouldn't give for a single drop of cool water right now. Or maybe an Eskimo Pie."
-- Albert Einstein, peckish whilst burning in Hell.

"At least that self-important coont Oppenheimer's not here. Not yet".
-- Albert Einstein, contemplating ways it could be worse whilst burning in Hell

"Could God make a rock so big that He couldn't lift it? Ha, answer that!"
-- Albert Einstein, losing his classic understated wit and then just revelling in smug atheist circle-jerkery whilst burning in Hell.
 
2012-12-23 05:54:24 PM

LisaNeedsBraces: /not arguing with you, just making a (probably bad) funny.


Nah, just reinforcing precisely what I said. : )

God money I'll do anything for you. God money just tell me what you want me to.
 
2012-12-23 05:55:55 PM
Here's an interesting metric for whatever your belief or non belief system is. Unplug the money. Is it gasping for air? The it's probably crap.
 
2012-12-23 05:56:36 PM

bunner: ParaHandy: There is nothing super special about earth,

Huh. From what I've been informed of by every single science organization you can name, Earth, at least from our limited perspective, since we live here, is ASTOUNDINGLY special.


It's more suited to life than a gas giant or a moon. Liquid water and some kind of tidal motion are necessary, plus an appropriate temperature range for the biochemistry. However, there are uncounted quadrillions of planets, and it seems likely that there is at least one more somewhere with the right conditions for life.

Clearly life is rare, but to use the argument favoured by the believers in religion, it is quite literally impossible to ever prove there isn't another planet with life ... the universe is not only expanding, but so is space-time itself, so nearly all of it is moving away from us faster than the speed of light and thus will be permanently outside our observable universe anyway. Maybe that's how the FSM keeps intelligent life forms apart.

But alas, little grey men have not been kidnapping hicks or crashing tiny interstellar space craft in New Mexico or Tunguska :)
 
2012-12-23 05:58:27 PM

ParaHandy: It's more suited to life than a gas giant or a moon. Liquid water and some kind of tidal motion are necessary, plus an appropriate temperature range for the biochemistry. However, there are uncounted quadrillions of planets, and it seems likely that there is at least one more somewhere with the right conditions for life.


But doesn't that assume that all life forms work just like ours? And doesn't that make us, and earth, by definition, special?
 
2012-12-23 05:58:30 PM
ParaHandy so nearly all of it is moving away from us faster than the speed of light

wat
 
2012-12-23 05:58:31 PM

bunner: LisaNeedsBraces: /not arguing with you, just making a (probably bad) funny.

Nah, just reinforcing precisely what I said. : )

God money I'll do anything for you. God money just tell me what you want me to.


NIN reference = win :)
 
2012-12-23 05:59:49 PM

bunner: Here's an interesting metric for whatever your belief or non belief system is. Unplug the money. Is it gasping for air? The it's probably crap.


The FSM has no need of earthly trappings like money, he is all sustaining and derives his energy from 26 dimensional quantum vacuum fluctuations.

www.evolvefish.com
 
2012-12-23 06:01:00 PM

letrole: Now I Is! The moral code of a Druid, for example, is quite staunchly against any form of bigotry, misogyny, or dogmatic disbelief in the fundamental principles of nature.

letrole: Off to good and inclusive start, but then they lose points with the bit concerning human sacrifices and playing football with the skulls of the enemy killed in battle.

Now I Is! But that's the advantage of having no strict dogma, admitting that your ancestors were wrong is actually quite easy.

But what about that policeman they burnt in a bonfire or something on that scottish island?


It is well known fact that Christopher Lee is a Supervillain and, therefore, his actions were congruent with the policies of The Guild of Calamitous Intent, and were not sanctioned by the OBOD or any equivalent organisation.
 
2012-12-23 06:01:50 PM

letrole: ParaHandy so nearly all of it is moving away from us faster than the speed of light

wat


No, really it's true. Would I troll a trole?
 
2012-12-23 06:02:41 PM

ParaHandy: bunner: Here's an interesting metric for whatever your belief or non belief system is. Unplug the money. Is it gasping for air? The it's probably crap.

The FSM has no need of earthly trappings like money, he is all sustaining and derives his energy from 26 dimensional quantum vacuum fluctuations.

[www.evolvefish.com image 240x78]


Well, that's handy. I mean, it sounds like some oppressive construct designed to disenfranchise the unenlightened, but so far, that seems to be the point of religion, half of academia and most of politics. Does it ever cause concern that, so far, it's the best we can do?
 
2012-12-23 06:02:43 PM

ParaHandy: bunner: Keizer_Ghidorah: What does being there have to do with it? Science and logic, along with the history of Earth, shows that there's no evidence of super-duper beings. Earth is 4.5 billion years old, not 6,000 years. That alone throws the Christian side out the window.

But.. teh AL1ENS! See, the thing is, the only one provable thing in this whole maelstrom of "huh UH!" is we don't really know. We do, it seems NEED to know, though. I think we should focus on that.

What we do know is already enough to reduce the scope of possibility of deities to the minimum possible: ones that exist outside our universe (or multiverse) and basically pressed the PLAY button and set it going like a little clockwork. Whether such a deity exists or not is a completely moot question of metaphysics, since they have no impact on what goes on in our world.

What religions do to try to maintain their credibility and reconcile their myths with reality is to back pedal .... "the writer of Genesis didn't really mean the earth is only 6,000 years old, it's an allegory" or "it's ok to wear polyester now, and you can no longer keep slaves, but gays are still bad" and "we changed our minds, yes the bible says the earth is round" once they could no longer contain the truth.

There is nothing super special about earth, and so it seems likely that life exists on other planets given their vast numbers (astronomers estimates just went up another order of magnitude or so recently). However, until I see evidence of it, I remain skeptical.

Similarly, any true scientist like me is definitionally agnostic (if evidence is found, then we'll believe) and an atheist based on current evidence (people have been trying to prove the existence of tens of thousands of deities for thousands of years, and not a single shred of evidence for any of them has turned up). The odds are not looking good for the sky fairies.

The value of hypothesis about how the universe works is in its ability to enable us to predic ...


Who was it who told Einstein to "Stop telling God what to do"? (Don't feel like looking it up. Good quip, though.)
 
2012-12-23 06:05:01 PM
Now I Is!: It is well known fact that Christopher Lee is a Supervillain and, therefore, his actions were congruent with the policies of The Guild of Calamitous Intent, and were not sanctioned by the OBOD or any equivalent organisation.

Then they shouldn't put stuff like that on the telly.
 
2012-12-23 06:06:24 PM

bunner: ParaHandy: It's more suited to life than a gas giant or a moon. Liquid water and some kind of tidal motion are necessary, plus an appropriate temperature range for the biochemistry. However, there are uncounted quadrillions of planets, and it seems likely that there is at least one more somewhere with the right conditions for life.

But doesn't that assume that all life forms work just like ours? And doesn't that make us, and earth, by definition, special?


Oh, come, now. Perhaps we work like them, and they're the ones who are, by definition, special.

/Dah, da-dah, da-da-da-da-dah.
 
2012-12-23 06:07:03 PM

ten foiled hats: Oh, come, now. Perhaps we work like them, and they're the ones who are, by definition, special.


And?
 
2012-12-23 06:08:07 PM

bunner: Huggermugger: Actually, there is such a cocktail party. I attended it once, due to the fact that I have a close relative who's worth over $20 million dollars. Those people really do own the world, and they can get, or do, anything they want. They also have loathing and contempt for poor people, and enjoy the idea that their share of the pie is becoming huger and huger.

Yes, but that religion is money and if anybody wants to wage war on greedy, self important c*nts, I'll pop for gas money and printing ink.


They use religion as their best tool to control the electorate that keeps them in power.
 
2012-12-23 06:09:28 PM
So far, all I see is a lot of dismissive snorting, arrogant authority postures, some pretty nebulous science and straight off the ready to wear rack trolling. I do have the advantage of expecting nothing else, though. Nobody knows, folks. That's the adventure.
 
2012-12-23 06:10:05 PM

Huggermugger: They use religion as their best tool to control the electorate that keeps them in power.


No, I'm pretty sure that's money, too.
 
2012-12-23 06:10:14 PM
Scrooge was driven to his humbug views by all the fanatics around him. Can you blame him? They couldn't even leave him alone in his sleep, sending goddamn GHOSTS after him. How mean is that?
 
2012-12-23 06:11:57 PM

bunner: ten foiled hats: Oh, come, now. Perhaps we work like them, and they're the ones who are, by definition, special.

And?


bunner: So far, all I see is a lot of dismissive snorting, arrogant authority postures, some pretty nebulous science and straight off the ready to wear rack trolling. I do have the advantage of expecting nothing else, though. Nobody knows, folks. That's the adventure.


Hence my little jingle, there.
 
2012-12-23 06:13:23 PM
Other atheists join in harassing the heinous atheists for trying to take away the "hey is this holy" rudolph the claymation what the hell cartoon, Nightmare Before Christmas, and 24 hour non-christian christmas music in stores.

Well, I'll give them the music one. Even employees want to go deaf.
 
2012-12-23 06:16:12 PM

cwolf20: Other atheists join in harassing the heinous atheists for trying to take away the "hey is this holy" rudolph the claymation what the hell cartoon, Nightmare Before Christmas, and 24 hour non-christian christmas music in stores.

Well, I'll give them the music one. Even employees want to go deaf.


Are they trying to take away The Nightmare Before Christmas?! THEY CAN SHUT THEIR WHORE MOUTHS!!!
 
2012-12-23 06:16:25 PM
ParaHandy: so nearly all of it is moving away from us faster than the speed of light
letrole: wat
ParaHandy: No, really it's true. Would I troll a trole?

It's a crock, like dark matter. Pure conjecture. Frankly, the numbers don't add up. So as a matter of faith, two cheats are used: the idea that space itself expands, and that the majority of the universe is missing in the form of purposely scare-quoted "dark matter".
 
2012-12-23 06:17:06 PM

letrole: ParaHandy: Quantum mechanics sounds just as fanciful as religion - even Einstein famously said "God does not play dice". However, it became established science, and so he changed his position. In later life, he also became an atheist.


"Anybody else feel like they shouldn't have worn a jumper today?"
-- Albert Einstein, burning in Hell

"It's not the humidity, it's the infernal heat that makes it so hot".
-- Albert Einstein, adjusting a broken thermostat whilst burning in Hell

"How's it going, Hitler?"
-- Albert Einstein, making friends whilst burning in Hell.

"What I wouldn't give for a single drop of cool water right now. Or maybe an Eskimo Pie."
-- Albert Einstein, peckish whilst burning in Hell.

"At least that self-important coont Oppenheimer's not here. Not yet".
-- Albert Einstein, contemplating ways it could be worse whilst burning in Hell

"Could God make a rock so big that He couldn't lift it? Ha, answer that!"
-- Albert Einstein, losing his classic understated wit and then just revelling in smug atheist circle-jerkery whilst burning in Hell.


You really need a new act.
 
2012-12-23 06:17:56 PM
We're all twitchy about all of this because all of the things we built upon, belief or non belief, are losing their meaning. What we're not bright enough to do, it seems, is take a hard, long view look at what were all replacing it with, without question.
 
2012-12-23 06:18:47 PM

ParaHandy: letrole: ParaHandy so nearly all of it is moving away from us faster than the speed of light

wat

No, really it's true. Would I troll a trole?


No wonder everyone seems fatter!
 
2012-12-23 06:21:39 PM

letrole: ParaHandy: so nearly all of it is moving away from us faster than the speed of light
letrole: wat
ParaHandy: No, really it's true. Would I troll a trole?

It's a crock, like dark matter. Pure conjecture. Frankly, the numbers don't add up. So as a matter of faith, two cheats are used: the idea that space itself expands, and that the majority of the universe is missing in the form of purposely scare-quoted "dark matter".



You sound like an unbeliever.
 
2012-12-23 06:22:25 PM
FOX Sports has 'Happy Holidays' as their graphic.

They must be stopped at all costs.
 
2012-12-23 06:22:41 PM

bunner: So far, all I see is a lot of dismissive snorting, arrogant authority postures, some pretty nebulous science and straight off the ready to wear rack trolling. I do have the advantage of expecting nothing else, though. Nobody knows, folks. That's the adventure.


Yeah, it makes it hard to discuss anything with someone who petulantly dismisses everything shown to him and insists on acting like a child when discussing things.

Sorry, actual researched, observable, existing facts have more power and relevance than impossible-to-prove gods who you can attribute anything to and say anything about to make your opinions seem true.

letrole: ParaHandy: so nearly all of it is moving away from us faster than the speed of light
letrole: wat
ParaHandy: No, really it's true. Would I troll a trole?

It's a crock, like dark matter. Pure conjecture. Frankly, the numbers don't add up. So as a matter of faith, two cheats are used: the idea that space itself expands, and that the majority of the universe is missing in the form of purposely scare-quoted "dark matter".


Yep, the only reason they called it "dark matter" was for the scariness. Not because it's, you know, DARK as in "no light or color". For someone who dismisses science so much, you sure seem to know the intimate details of it and the minds of scientists.
 
2012-12-23 06:22:57 PM

UsikFark: The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: UsikFark: Man, I want Christmas sex. Stupid protestant moral crusaders.

I hear subby's mom is available.

I don't do charity.


my name isn't charity, I'm also not subby's mom....
 
2012-12-23 06:26:22 PM

LisaNeedsBraces: Tyranicle: I'm a WASP athiest, so therefore I have no problem with religion, Christmas, Santa Clause, etc. As a madder of fact, I love Christmas. These 'athiest' who have a problem with traditional wester culture, I.e 'white' culture are mainly jews.

Trolling troll goes a-trollin'?



bestuff.com
He trolled...poorly.
 
2012-12-23 06:27:22 PM
Keizer_Ghidorah: Yep, the only reason they called it "dark matter" was for the scariness.

You don't know what a scare-quote is, but you wish to discuss cosmology.

Please, fark off and die in a fire.
 
2012-12-23 06:29:39 PM

bunner: We're all twitchy about all of this because all of the things we built upon, belief or non belief, are losing their meaning. What we're not bright enough to do, it seems, is take a hard, long view look at what were all replacing it with, without question.


When humans were more primitive and stupid, they created gods for everything. Lightning and thunder were two divine brothers fighting over a woman, Zeus tossing thunderbolts at things that annoyed him, or a gigantic bird who fired lightning with each flap of its wings. The turning of the seasons was the deity of the climate being sad when her daughter was in the underworld and happy when she was with her. Every tree, every rock, every animal was the home of some manner of god, demigod, or other divine being. People once believed that sneezing causes your soul to fly out of your body, and saying "Bless you" prevented the Devil from taking its place. As we became smarter, as we began to explore and test and observe, we no longer needed gods to explain how things work. Like a child growing up and learning that Santa Claus is really his parents buying the presents from the store, humanity is growing up and leaving behind the need for fairy tales.

And ever notice how many gods and goddesses are created in the image of man? Even the more non-human, like the Egyptian gods, were humans with animal heads. Humans are a very self-centered and arrogant species.
 
2012-12-23 06:31:26 PM

Boojum2k: Theonceovertwice: I'm an atheist, and I have no problem with Christmas.

Agnostic, but this.

The 90% of atheists who act like expressions of other peoples belief is a supernatural force that will harm them make the reasonable 10% look bad.



IMO, you make the reasonable look bad.

Government ruled by religion, or that favors religion, is a force that can harm non-religious people, and society at large.

An education system that's not allowed to teach actual science because it's against some people's creation beliefs can harm society at large. That kind of enforcement of willful ignorance is never a boon.

These are things that you are apparently grossly ignorant of, or willfully ignorant of, considering their frequent appearance even on fark.
 
2012-12-23 06:31:49 PM

letrole: Keizer_Ghidorah: Yep, the only reason they called it "dark matter" was for the scariness.

You don't know what a scare-quote is, but you wish to discuss cosmology.

Please, fark off and die in a fire.


Oooooo, did I hit a nerve? Or are you starting to lose it?

You're the one saying it's scare-quoted after putting them in scare-quotes yourself.
 
2012-12-23 06:32:48 PM
Brave? When these Atheists go to Egypt to oppose Sharia, then they can claim courage.
 
2012-12-23 06:33:04 PM
Keizer_Ghidorah: Humans are a very self-centered and arrogant species.


Well other species would be very self-centred and arrogant if they weren't dumb beasts incapable of higher intellect and emotions.
 
2012-12-23 06:34:38 PM

bunner: We're all twitchy about all of this because all of the things we built upon, belief or non belief, are losing their meaning. What we're not bright enough to do, it seems, is take a hard, long view look at what were all replacing it with, without question.


I think that's probably been going on for some time, though. My guess is, a lot of those beliefs were built upon, as you say. Slowly, over the centuries. We've been having this debate for some time. And as you say, no one knows. As to what we're replacing it with, I think we can all have a good hard look. I think it just scares the sh*t out of some people. For others, eh, good riddance to bad rubbish.

Fun debate to have, though.
 
2012-12-23 06:34:39 PM

bunner: We used to make stuff.

We used to establish things.

Now, we just want our chance to shave a little off of what's already in place, before there's nothing left to shave.

Now, we just want to body check all the people who engage in that which we do not believe or care for out of the way so the trappings can be about US! Get that baby out of that bathwater! It's OUR turn! *snort* We're a nation of sociocultural cowbirds.


and by we you mean...

pfb.blob.core.windows.net
 
2012-12-23 06:36:13 PM
Keizer_Ghidorah: You're the one saying it's scare-quoted after putting them in scare-quotes yourself.

But you're the one who thinks they mean "scary". The casual reader can go through the thread and see the exchange.

FO DIAF
 
2012-12-23 06:40:37 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Yeah, it makes it hard to discuss anything with someone who petulantly dismisses everything shown to him and insists on acting like a child when discussing things.


Can't be more difficult than trying to discuss things with dime store pedagogues with blanket authority postures and "dear me, I just SAID everything works like THIS" as a scientific absolute. And that's fine, but pull my ear and you lose a hand. : )
 
2012-12-23 06:42:34 PM

ParaHandy: Valiente: Vodka Zombie: St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Because JESUS!!!

Yeah, usually.

/BTW, don't mention he's Jewish and was probably pretty Arab-looking and possibly gay. Heads exploding isn't very festive. For most, anyway.

Nah, he dated Mary Magdalene.

Paul was gay though, and ironically so was the commissioner of the Christian bible, James VI. He ordered it to stop two local religious factions (Catholic / CoE and Protestant) from starting a civil war, and the "Word of God(tm)" oft quoted verbatim is actually a very loose translation into 16th century English of various carefully picked ancient texts, manipulated to suit the politics of the day.


There's a belief, that Mary Magdalen was Jesus wife. He appeared to her first after the ressurection. It was also noted that her being named implies a much higher role in Jewish society.

She was never a hooker, as even the Vadican had to admit. ( there was confusion of many Marys in the bible.) some scholars believed that Paul was a huge mysogimist and diminished women's role in the church.
 
2012-12-23 06:42:52 PM
I thought everyone knew better than to reply to letrole, as he's a very well known contrarian troll, his username even apes the activity.
 
2012-12-23 06:44:17 PM
letrole:

Just out of curiosity: when did you lose your html privileges, exactly?
 
2012-12-23 06:44:40 PM
I believe the Atheists of the middle America have the most against the Theists because they push their agenda where it should not be. If it was only in Churches or other known religious buildings and institutions they would not care but it

is in schools, at camps, at concerts for the public i.e not in Church.

Keep your Theism in buildings and organizations solely designed for it and the Atheists will not need to counteract the bullshiat your selling their children because they happen to be..

In public
At school etc.

If you tell the story of god in a church then it is my fault if I bring my child in.
But if your telling the story of God in a public school and having children who do not join the class sit outside and do nothing so they feel ostracized, then yes I will have something to say. And I will not be bloody nice about it.
 
2012-12-23 06:46:06 PM
omeganuepsilon: I thought everyone knew better than to reply to letrole, as he's a very well known contrarian troll, his username even apes the activity.

My surname is Le Trôle
 
2012-12-23 06:46:08 PM

ten foiled hats: I think it just scares the sh*t out of some people. For others, eh, good riddance to bad rubbish.


I think false dichotomies are the impetus of flags and flags are a bad idea, so far.
 
2012-12-23 06:49:33 PM
fusillade762: Just out of curiosity: when did you lose your html privileges, exactly?


Test Link
 
2012-12-23 06:49:43 PM

BillDozer357: Or agnostic, or non-theist, or Laveyan Satanists even. There are many types of non-believers.


Agnostics and non-theists are just atheists without the balls to admit it.
 
2012-12-23 06:50:40 PM
fusillade762: Just out of curiosity: when did you lose your html privileges, exactly?


seems to allow links


why do you ask?
 
2012-12-23 06:50:44 PM
"Do you believe in god?"

"No."

*BANG!*

"Do you believe in god?"

"Yes."

"My god?

"No."

*BANG!*

"Do you believe in god?"

"Yes."

*BANG!*

"Do you believe in a completely secular view?"

"Yes."

"My completely secular view?"

"No."

*BANG!*


Next reel, please.
 
2012-12-23 06:51:37 PM

letrole: Atheism is a Religion. A piss-poor Religion, but a Religion regardless.

The amusing part is where an almost endless supply of Schoolboy Atheists will launch into ever-decreasing circles of denial, and exercises of semantics worthy of any medieval theologian.


I think people who beleive atheism is a religion is worthy to be called a religion based on a leap of faith and lack of logical thinking.

Religion is a belief system that contains a supernatural element.
Atheism contains no such dogma.
 
2012-12-23 06:52:24 PM

letrole: Keizer_Ghidorah: Humans are a very self-centered and arrogant species.letrole: Keizer_Ghidorah: You're the one saying it's scare-quoted after putting them in scare-quotes yourself.

But you're the one who thinks they mean "scary". The casual reader can go through the thread and see the exchange.

FO DIAF

letrole: So as a matter of faith, two cheats are used: the idea that space itself expands, and that the majority of the universe is missing in the form of purposely scare-quoted "dark matter".

Mmm-hm, that's me saying it. Yes, sir. Twit.

Your tired, repetitive trolling is no longer amusing.

Well other species would be very self-centred and arrogant if they weren't dumb beasts incapable of higher intellect and emotions.


Now we're using the "Everything would be just like humans if they were as smart as humans" thing? I refer back to the arrogance of humans for this.
 
2012-12-23 06:54:13 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: letrole: Keizer_Ghidorah: Humans are a very self-centered and arrogant species.letrole: Keizer_Ghidorah: You're the one saying it's scare-quoted after putting them in scare-quotes yourself.

But you're the one who thinks they mean "scary". The casual reader can go through the thread and see the exchange.

FO DIAF


letrole: So as a matter of faith, two cheats are used: the idea that space itself expands, and that the majority of the universe is missing in the form of purposely scare-quoted "dark matter".


Yep, that's me saying it, right there. /sarcasm

Your tired, repetitive trolling is no longer amusing.
 
2012-12-23 06:54:46 PM

bunner: ten foiled hats: I think it just scares the sh*t out of some people. For others, eh, good riddance to bad rubbish.

I think false dichotomies are the impetus of flags and flags are a bad idea, so far.


Alright. I drink beer to keep the scary jewish zombie from returning and casting me into the eternal hellfire.

Working so far.
 
2012-12-23 06:54:54 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: bunner: We're all twitchy about all of this because all of the things we built upon, belief or non belief, are losing their meaning. What we're not bright enough to do, it seems, is take a hard, long view look at what were all replacing it with, without question.

When humans were more primitive and stupid, they created gods for everything. Lightning and thunder were two divine brothers fighting over a woman, Zeus tossing thunderbolts at things that annoyed him, or a gigantic bird who fired lightning with each flap of its wings. The turning of the seasons was the deity of the climate being sad when her daughter was in the underworld and happy when she was with her. Every tree, every rock, every animal was the home of some manner of god, demigod, or other divine being. People once believed that sneezing causes your soul to fly out of your body, and saying "Bless you" prevented the Devil from taking its place. As we became smarter, as we began to explore and test and observe, we no longer needed gods to explain how things work. Like a child growing up and learning that Santa Claus is really his parents buying the presents from the store, humanity is growing up and leaving behind the need for fairy tales.

And ever notice how many gods and goddesses are created in the image of man? Even the more non-human, like the Egyptian gods, were humans with animal heads. Humans are a very self-centered and arrogant species.


When I was a child, I thought, and spoke as a child. When I became a man, I put away childish things. Including religion.
 
2012-12-23 06:55:07 PM
If I were in the only species on a planet capable of critical thought, objective awareness of my own mortality, structured spoken and written languages, space travel, large scale agriculture and industry, I'd be a little arrogant, too. Oh, wait..
 
2012-12-23 06:56:22 PM

ten foiled hats: Alright. I drink beer to keep the scary jewish zombie from returning and casting me into the eternal hellfire.

Working so far.



While that has absolutely no bearing on anything I said, I am glad to know you're drinking very GOOD beer. : )
 
2012-12-23 06:57:15 PM

ten foiled hats: bunner: ten foiled hats: I think it just scares the sh*t out of some people. For others, eh, good riddance to bad rubbish.

I think false dichotomies are the impetus of flags and flags are a bad idea, so far.

Alright. I drink beer to keep the scary jewish zombie from returning and casting me into the eternal hellfire.

Working so far.


So is my elephant talisman. I had an old British sixpence blessed by a Ghanain juju master and i have yet to be trampled by an elephant, or for that matter attacked by any large African animals of any species.
 
2012-12-23 06:58:00 PM

bunner: Keizer_Ghidorah: Yeah, it makes it hard to discuss anything with someone who petulantly dismisses everything shown to him and insists on acting like a child when discussing things.

Can't be more difficult than trying to discuss things with dime store pedagogues with blanket authority postures and "dear me, I just SAID everything works like THIS" as a scientific absolute. And that's fine, but pull my ear and you lose a hand. : )


People have given you the actual scientific statements, formulas, and workings of why and how, and you dismiss them with the same petulant attitude as you dismiss what Farkers say, with the "We just don't know, therefore both sides are equal" fallacy as your justification, and then you project your attitude onto others so you can continue to be a child.
 
2012-12-23 06:58:36 PM

bunner: If I were in the only species on a planet capable of critical thought, objective awareness of my own mortality, structured spoken and written languages, space travel, large scale agriculture and industry, I'd be a little arrogant, too. Oh, wait..


Well, mankind did create its gods in its own image.
 
2012-12-23 06:59:06 PM

ParaHandy: When I was a child, I thought, and spoke as a child. When I became a man, I put away childish things. Including religion.


Is that going to be the atheist equivalent of a Bar Mitzvah rite of passage when the atheist overlords crush the neanderthal believers? And is it catered? : )
 
2012-12-23 06:59:21 PM
I have a serious question for the Christians: does Allah exist? Please explain your answer.
 
2012-12-23 07:01:10 PM

bunner: ParaHandy: When I was a child, I thought, and spoke as a child. When I became a man, I put away childish things. Including religion.

Is that going to be the atheist equivalent of a Bar Mitzvah rite of passage when the atheist overlords crush the neanderthal believers? And is it catered? : )


When I came into the light, I was lounging on a bunk bed with faded Disney sheets and flicking through a copy of the KJV. I had a couple of Granny Smiths but I wouldn't consider it catering.
 
2012-12-23 07:03:06 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: People have given you the actual scientific statements, formulas, and workings of why and how


Yeah" Where's that? When did that happen? More to the point, when did we arrive at a formula for "everything ever", cause I missed that, too. Your bullsh*t is showing and I have stuff to do, sunshine, so get to the big troll or just get some dignity.
 
2012-12-23 07:04:27 PM
Darth_Lukecash: Religion is a belief system that contains a supernatural element.

Buddhism
 
2012-12-23 07:05:27 PM

letrole: Darth_Lukecash: Religion is a belief system that contains a supernatural element.

Buddhism


It's just his surname, people.
 
2012-12-23 07:06:00 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Why would you NEED to be arrogant about it? Are you incapable of enjoying those things and abilities without being an asshole?


Wow, good thing you have a keyboard to hide behind, ain't it?
 
2012-12-23 07:07:01 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: Why would you NEED to be arrogant about it? Are you incapable of enjoying those things and abilities without being an asshole?


You're also irony proof, apparently.
 
2012-12-23 07:08:54 PM

Quaker: Fark Dupp: [guitarsandaudio.com image 500x375]

I disagree. No one can really know whether or not there's a god, so acting like you're absolutely sure about it one way or the other is a belief. To use your analogy, having the TV off would be someone who doesn't think about and/or care whether or not there's a god.



There is a Unicorn in your kitchen.
 
2012-12-23 07:09:09 PM

bunner: Keizer_Ghidorah: People have given you the actual scientific statements, formulas, and workings of why and how

Yeah" Where's that? When did that happen? More to the point, when did we arrive at a formula for "everything ever", cause I missed that, too. Your bullsh*t is showing and I have stuff to do, sunshine, so get to the big troll or just get some dignity.


bunner: Keizer_Ghidorah: Why would you NEED to be arrogant about it? Are you incapable of enjoying those things and abilities without being an asshole?

Wow, good thing you have a keyboard to hide behind, ain't it?


Nice, the "I've got to be at the gym in 26 minutes" AND the "Say it to my face and not over the internet and see what happens" memes, in two consecutive posts no less. I've wasted enough time with your idiocy.
 
2012-12-23 07:10:52 PM
Subby has a point. The majority of Christ followers will continue to celebrate this cursed pagan grabfest of a celebration as long as they perceive it to be part of an attack. Just to spite those they perceive to be attackers. If any headway is to be made a way of educating them on the many different sun worship and ferility/goddess worship traditions that got shrinkwrapped in scripture, it can't put them on the defensive.

Otherwise Christmas is here to stay.
 
2012-12-23 07:12:17 PM

bunner: ten foiled hats: Alright. I drink beer to keep the scary jewish zombie from returning and casting me into the eternal hellfire.

Working so far.


While that has absolutely no bearing on anything I said, I am glad to know you're drinking very GOOD beer. : )


Missed the false dichotomies being the impetus of flags thing. You'd mentioned belief or non, and I didn't see where you were going with your response. Still don't, but it's all good.

Alas, except for the beer. Icehouse. Holidays put a crimp in spending. Appropriate for this thread?

It is my sincere hope that YOU, however, are enjoying some of the finest of the lord's brew.

ParaHandy: ten foiled hats: bunner: ten foiled hats: I think it just scares the sh*t out of some people. For others, eh, good riddance to bad rubbish.

I think false dichotomies are the impetus of flags and flags are a bad idea, so far.

Alright. I drink beer to keep the scary jewish zombie from returning and casting me into the eternal hellfire.

Working so far.

So is my elephant talisman. I had an old British sixpence blessed by a Ghanain juju master and i have yet to be trampled by an elephant, or for that matter attacked by any large African animals of any species.


A British sixpence? Beware the Indian elephants. (Though I'm told they're a bit more docile.)
 
2012-12-23 07:12:39 PM
Keizer_Ghidorah
Yep, that's me saying it, right there. /sarcasm
Your tired, repetitive trolling is no longer amusing.


The amusing part is where you're so un-amused that you keep coming back up like bowl of bad clams.

Just don't reply.
 
2012-12-23 07:13:57 PM

Keizer_Ghidorah: I've wasted enough time with your idiocy.


Well, you could just kiss my pink ass rosy so it wouldn't be a total loss, you mouthy, cowering, posturing jerkoff. : ) Not everybody lives in memeworld, or needs to subscribe to some sense of intellectual superiority by spouting horsesh*t on a message board from behind their mother's skirt. Look into it. And yeah, I would disabuse you of your teeth if you started calling me sh*tty names to my face. Please use science to disprove this. Bye, sh* for brains. Smile for the people you are certain are hanging on every word of your pissant diatribe. : )
 
2012-12-23 07:16:11 PM
All I know is, I have seen very little in way of happy people in these past few weeks. Christmas is a commercialized sham.
 
2012-12-23 07:16:32 PM

letrole: why do you ask?


Your quoting just looks weird. Like you're copy/pasting instead. Whenever someone else quotes the names come up in blue as links. When you do it they're black non-links. The last person I saw doing something like that said that they'd had their html revoked for some reason so they couldn't use the quote button (among others).
 
2012-12-23 07:16:34 PM

letrole: Darth_Lukecash: Religion is a belief system that contains a supernatural element.

Buddhism


Buddhism can work two ways: as a philosophy or a religion with supernatural element.
 
2012-12-23 07:18:07 PM
letrole: Well other species would be very self-centred and arrogant if they weren't dumb beasts incapable of higher intellect and emotions.

Keizer_Ghidorah: Now we're using the "Everything would be just like humans if they were as smart as humans" thing? I refer back to the arrogance of humans for this.


Well, one thing is for sure. You're not likely to get all arrogant about your intellect and lord it over the farm animals.
 
2012-12-23 07:18:14 PM
I can see how middle america atheist might get a bit feistier, they've got to deal with more crap than on the left and right coasts. Case in point:


www.atheistmemebase.com
 
2012-12-23 07:20:08 PM

LargeCanine: Brave? When these Atheists go to Egypt to oppose Sharia, then they can claim courage.


Then they would most certainly die by the hands of those medieval savages. Not saying we're better, not by any means. Just that they are THAT much more screwed up than we are. People there think religious education will feed them and remain willfully uneducated and marred by false ideas. The ones that do get smart, convince others to strap on bomb-vest to blow up innocents. And as the wheels roll on.
 
2012-12-23 07:20:17 PM

itsfullofstars: I can see how middle america atheist might get a bit feistier, they've got to deal with more crap than on the left and right coasts. Case in point:


Wish you'd used a better example. That letter is a fake.
 
2012-12-23 07:21:55 PM

farked3ways2sunday: All I know is, I have seen very little in way of happy people in these past few weeks. Christmas is a commercialized sham.


The ghetto is how you live, not where live. Things respond to how they're used. If you wipe your ass with something, it's toilet paper. Happiness is infectious. To be honest, I don't see a lot of happy people much anymore, either. Not even on TeeVee. Everybody is selling the metrics of the big bug up their rear ends. Even with staged dramas that are entirely made up, the characters are all suffering from terminal minor annoyance. I wonder who they think wins.
 
2012-12-23 07:24:14 PM
letrole: why do you ask?

fusillade762: Your quoting just looks weird. Like you're copy/pasting instead.

Oh, I see now.

I'm doing this text based. I can't copy and paste. I have to manually retype anything that I want to quote.

I've been using a Commodore 64 with a telnet client called Archerman. It's pretty obscure. You've probably never heard of it.
 
2012-12-23 07:26:19 PM
Maximum le trolling.

/It's a surname.
 
2012-12-23 07:30:44 PM
I don't get "angry atheists". If I had time for horseshiat like religion, I'd join one of the more profitable ones and get paid for it. I don't. And I don't have time, energy, or inclination to go around deliberately riling up the stupidest, most ignorant, and most violent people in our culture.
F**k you, angry atheists - when you deliberately provoke killer apes, you deserve to get your face bitten off.
But I would like to thank you for making life more difficult and unpleasant for normal non-believers like me - in fact, I'd like to thank your face with an aluminum softball bat.
 
2012-12-23 07:32:43 PM

jso2897: I don't get "angry atheists". If I had time for horseshiat like religion, I'd join one of the more profitable ones and get paid for it. I don't. And I don't have time, energy, or inclination to go around deliberately riling up the stupidest, most ignorant, and most violent people in our culture.
F**k you, angry atheists - when you deliberately provoke killer apes, you deserve to get your face bitten off.
But I would like to thank you for making life more difficult and unpleasant for normal non-believers like me - in fact, I'd like to thank your face with an aluminum softball bat.


images.retecool.com
 
2012-12-23 07:34:16 PM
For what it's worth, the true essence of Christianity is "Slaves, obey your masters!" (Ephesians 6:5 and Colossians 3:22) In return, after a life of being bossed around, beaten, robbed, raped and maimed while forgiven those who sin against you and turning the other cheek, you'll get to feel special because you think you'll go to Heaven. This is why the Roman Empire turned it into the official religion. And while on the one hand the Church taught the rulers a little bit about treating their underlings as if they might be worth a penny or two, they also encouraged Christian rulers to send their underlings to become sick, maimed or dead fighting against pagans, heretics, eventually allowing the rulers to conquer and enslave the peasants of the Christian land next door in exchange for money, power and influence. It's hard to imagine worshippers of Isis doing likewise. "Old Testament" Judaism was right out because reading was widespread among the Jews of the Empire and their community had some money from long-distance trade and medicine: before the days of th Internet it was far safer to build a state religion on the faith of illiterate and superstitious slaves. (Islam, the "Conquer the world for Allah!" religion, would have done as well or better, for slightly different reasons, but it hadn't been invented yet.)

That said, to return to "the reason for the season," where would Jesus shop?
 
2012-12-23 07:34:46 PM

letrole: letrole: Well other species would be very self-centred and arrogant if they weren't dumb beasts incapable of higher intellect and emotions.

Keizer_Ghidorah: Now we're using the "Everything would be just like humans if they were as smart as humans" thing? I refer back to the arrogance of humans for this.


Well, one thing is for sure. You're not likely to get all arrogant about your intellect and lord it over the farm animals.

i18.photobucket.com
Oh, the animals, oh, the animals!
Let's talk dirty to the animals.
F**k you, Mrs. Bunny!
Eat shiat, Mr. Bear!
If they don't love it, they can shove it - we don't really care!
 
2012-12-23 07:35:02 PM

letrole: Darth_Lukecash: Religion is a belief system that contains a supernatural element.

Buddhism


Oh yes it does ....

Also, Buddha is not a surname, it's a title given to one who has reached Nirvana, or total enlightenment.

I will say that the world would be a better place if some of the Indian religions had displaced the more violent ones like Christianity and Islam a long time ago.
 
2012-12-23 07:35:57 PM
can we PLEASE let xmas just be a non denominational holiday? PLEASE?
 
2012-12-23 07:36:36 PM

verbaltoxin: jso2897: I don't get "angry atheists". If I had time for horseshiat like religion, I'd join one of the more profitable ones and get paid for it. I don't. And I don't have time, energy, or inclination to go around deliberately riling up the stupidest, most ignorant, and most violent people in our culture.
F**k you, angry atheists - when you deliberately provoke killer apes, you deserve to get your face bitten off.
But I would like to thank you for making life more difficult and unpleasant for normal non-believers like me - in fact, I'd like to thank your face with an aluminum softball bat.

[images.retecool.com image 750x600]


You need one of these!
i18.photobucket.com

It's an ITG filter!
 
2012-12-23 07:37:49 PM

TheOriginalEd: can we PLEASE let xmas just be a non denominational holiday? PLEASE?


Fine with me. I just want everybody to be happy. Or at least, miserable in silence.
 
2012-12-23 07:39:01 PM

Cheesus: Religion is for church.

You've just missed the whole point of the First Amendment.

The point of separation of Church and State is to forbid the 'establishment' of any belief system. The Supreme Court has already ruled that a wholesale ban on religious speech in public (both generally and in the specific 'government funded location' sense) amounts to a de facto establishment of state atheism.

The First Amendment protects public religious speech just as much as it protects Gay Pride parades. If someone finds either one of those offensive or annoying, that means the First Amendment is doing its job.

No one in the US has the right to be protected from speech they disagree with or consider offensive. By the same token, no one in the US is guaranteed an audience that will hear and respect what they say. Your right to speak is precisely balanced by my right to ignore you. Even if I consider the things you say abhorrent, I will slap the living shiat out of anyone who tries to deprive me of my right to hear, disagree with, and ignore them.
 
2012-12-23 07:41:40 PM

bunner: farked3ways2sunday: All I know is, I have seen very little in way of happy people in these past few weeks. Christmas is a commercialized sham.

The ghetto is how you live, not where live. Things respond to how they're used. If you wipe your ass with something, it's toilet paper. Happiness is infectious. To be honest, I don't see a lot of happy people much anymore, either. Not even on TeeVee. Everybody is selling the metrics of the big bug up their rear ends. Even with staged dramas that are entirely made up, the characters are all suffering from terminal minor annoyance. I wonder who they think wins.


Interesting thought. Minor annoyance is terminal; minor annoyance wins! Do the characters go to the heaven? Characters win! EVERYBODY WINS!

But then, does the minor annoyance need the characters to survive? Or can it just move to another host? (It seems to be the latter.) And if it can't survive without the characters, and so dies itself, does it go to minor annoyance the heaven? Minor annoyance wins!
 
2012-12-23 07:41:55 PM

farked3ways2sunday: LargeCanine: Brave? When these Atheists go to Egypt to oppose Sharia, then they can claim courage.

Then they would most certainly die by the hands of those medieval savages. Not saying we're better, not by any means. Just that they are THAT much more screwed up than we are. People there think religious education will feed them and remain willfully uneducated and marred by false ideas. The ones that do get smart, convince others to strap on bomb-vest to blow up innocents. And as the wheels roll on.


Don't get me wrong, I don't expect them to go there. I would say they were idiots if they did. I just don't think its in any way "brave" to advocate an opinion in the USA. There is nothing to fear, therefore controlling fear - a fair definition of courage - is not an issue. They are in greater danger of Smug.
 
2012-12-23 07:47:38 PM
Darth_Lukecash: Religion is a belief system that contains a supernatural element.
letrole: Buddhism
ParaHandy: Oh yes it does ....

The Dalai Lama states:
"From one viewpoint, Buddhism is a religion, from another viewpoint Buddhism is a science of mind and not a religion. Buddhism can be a bridge between these two sides. Therefore, with this conviction I try to have closer ties with scientists, mainly in the fields of cosmology, psychology, neurobiology and physics. In these fields there are insights to share, and to a certain extent we can work together."
 
2012-12-23 08:07:09 PM

mbillips: The One True TheDavid:

[...]


SHOP LESS, PRAY MORE!

Your blog sucks.

/Secular Christmas is awesome


There is no such thing as a "secular CHRISTmas." You're worshipping Jesus, Mammon, or both.


//Christmas dinner is awesome

You need a religious excuse to have dinner with family & friends?


///Shopping for presents and getting presents is fun

What's it like being rich?


////Caroling is fun
//Christmas parties are fun
//Atheist

Some atheists go Christmas caroling? What do you sing that doesn't violate your non-beliefs? Or are you able to sing "God rest ye merry gentlemen" with an ironic smirk? Group singing is fun, but it doesn't have to be religious. Or don't you know that?

As for presents, dinners and parties, why do you need Xmas for that? Do you need advertisers' prompting to remember your family and friends? Everybody has a birthday, every married couple has an anniversary, and as far as I know everybody likes receiving presents "Just because!"

But don't let me stand in the way of your vapid weakness: if it weren't for silly people who could I feel superior to?

Hint: I'm an atheist communist. Or should I say communist atheist? People's private superstitions don't oppress me, and the hallowed tradition of Xmas shopping -- the time when retailers profit most -- is just another way to redistribute wealth to the 1%.
 
2012-12-23 08:16:05 PM

ParaHandy: We just enjoy making fun of the afflicted. Welcome to Fark.


I think you should spread this uplifting message of hope that only those unencumbered with faith could deliver! Or, you know, at least admit that your whole pose is a smirkfest of self-congratulatory hipper than thou. If nothing else, it would prevent these threads. Otherwise, it seems like your whole staunch posture of enlightenment disappears up your own ass when you close your browser. : )
 
2012-12-23 08:19:09 PM

letrole: letrole: why do you ask?

fusillade762: Your quoting just looks weird. Like you're copy/pasting instead.

Oh, I see now.

I'm doing this text based. I can't copy and paste. I have to manually retype anything that I want to quote.

I've been using a Commodore 64 with a telnet client called Archerman. It's pretty obscure. You've probably never heard of it.


Nice to see someone so dedicated to their craft.
 
2012-12-23 08:26:50 PM
Pissing from a great height for science is a lot like shouting for Jesus. And makes about as many friends. Or has that escaped everybody on both sides of this ostensibly fraught with gravitas, non-issue du jour?
 
2012-12-23 08:30:13 PM
The Hindu guy at the liquor store wished me a "Happy Christmas", so I wished him one back. When a Hindu and an Atheist are saying, "Happy Christmas" to each other, I think Santa and Fox won. I think Jesus is still losing his flock though.
 
2012-12-23 08:32:31 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Christmas is pretty much a secular holiday anyway.

It celebrates when Santa died on the cross to give you eternal low low doorbuster prices.


I love you in the Farkiest way.
 
2012-12-23 08:35:13 PM

The One True TheDavid: That said, to return to "the reason for the season," where would Jesus shop?

If the Lord were alive today, what would you give him this Christmas?
What would you give someone who has everything and more?He can heal the sick, so don't give him an aspirinHe can walk on water, so don't give him support.If the lord were alive today, what would you give him this Christmas?You'd give him a $20 certificate at Pizza Joe's!joelamoroney.files.wordpress.com/Darkest TV show ever made.
 
2012-12-23 08:48:50 PM
It's almost the end of another year.

I am still not small minded, nor mean spirited enough to be a Atheist.

To each their own, I like to say, unless your own is telling others what they can or cannot believe in.
 
2012-12-23 09:00:14 PM

Slam1263: It's almost the end of another year.

I am still not small minded, nor mean spirited enough to be a Atheist.

To each their own, I like to say, unless your own is telling others what they can or cannot believe in.


And yet, you just dismissed those who don't see the universe in your terms as "small-minded", and "Mean-spirited".
You are a full-of-shiat hypocrite.
 
2012-12-23 09:01:44 PM

BillDozer357: Bhruic: FTA: What's more, most American nonbelievers are not even atheists

Um, no. Most non-religious Americans might not be atheists, but if you are nonbeliever, you are, by definition, an atheist.

Or agnostic, or non-theist, or Laveyan Satanists even. There are many types of non-believers.


This!

People like to lump everyone into some type of philosophical container or group so they can break them down easier. Be definition I am Agnostic but I will never say I am with that group because I don't agree with that view entirely.
 
2012-12-23 09:05:16 PM

squirrelflavoredyogurt: The Hindu guy at the liquor store wished me a "Happy Christmas", so I wished him one back. When a Hindu and an Atheist are saying, "Happy Christmas" to each other, I think Santa and Fox won. I think Jesus is still losing his flock though.


No, it just means you're being hollowly polite to each other.

The girl at my liquor store wished me a Merry Christmas too. I don't think she's Hindu though. Sort of cute. Wouldn't kick her out of bed. She'd probably kick me out though.
 
2012-12-23 09:05:31 PM

The One True TheDavid: mbillips: The One True TheDavid:

[...]


SHOP LESS, PRAY MORE!

Your blog sucks.

/Secular Christmas is awesome

There is no such thing as a "secular CHRISTmas." You're worshipping Jesus, Mammon, or both.


//Christmas dinner is awesome

You need a religious excuse to have dinner with family & friends?


///Shopping for presents and getting presents is fun

What's it like being rich?


////Caroling is fun
//Christmas parties are fun
//Atheist

Some atheists go Christmas caroling? What do you sing that doesn't violate your non-beliefs? Or are you able to sing "God rest ye merry gentlemen" with an ironic smirk? Group singing is fun, but it doesn't have to be religious. Or don't you know that?

As for presents, dinners and parties, why do you need Xmas for that? Do you need advertisers' prompting to remember your family and friends? Everybody has a birthday, every married couple has an anniversary, and as far as I know everybody likes receiving presents "Just because!"

But don't let me stand in the way of your vapid weakness: if it weren't for silly people who could I feel superior to?

Hint: I'm an atheist communist. Or should I say communist atheist? People's private superstitions don't oppress me, and the hallowed tradition of Xmas shopping -- the time when retailers profit most -- is just another way to redistribute wealth to the 1%.


Jesus H. farking Christ. You, sir, are a moron.

(I get the trolling. People believe bullsh*t, want to address, etc.)
1) Secular Christmas is where we just enjoy the season as we always have. Don't give a sh*t what it's called.
2) Nope. But we're not pissed when we're handed one.
3) Don't know. In my family, we pretty much exchange envelopes with roughly the same amount of money in them, and there's our presents.
4) Sing whatever the f*ck you damned well please. Hell, I've been known to sing along with N.W.A. songs. I'm not really going to bust a cap in your ass, I just dig the song.
5) And back. No one really needs it. But it's a time when we're encouraged to do it. No, I don't need a prompt, any more than I need a Valentine's Day prompt to have dinner and a bottle of wine with my girlfriend before we have sex. (And we both find Valentine's Day disgusting, frankly...may have just killed my own point.) But do I get bent out of shape eight ways from Sunday over it? No. FFS, why would I?

Also...nah, I'll leave it. Have a nice day. Was going to bring it full circle, and tell you what I tell the "War on Christmas" nutballs who get pissed at anyone wishing them happy holidays: Fine, f*ck you, I hope your holidays suck. But it's just fark. Enjoy your day in your own way. And I didn't mean the moron thing, I just disagree. (Aaawww...)
 
2012-12-23 09:08:09 PM
Why exactly is it wrong to want "Peace on earth, good will to men"?
 
2012-12-23 09:12:00 PM

Happy Hours: squirrelflavoredyogurt: The Hindu guy at the liquor store wished me a "Happy Christmas", so I wished him one back. When a Hindu and an Atheist are saying, "Happy Christmas" to each other, I think Santa and Fox won. I think Jesus is still losing his flock though.

No, it just means you're being hollowly polite to each other.

The girl at my liquor store wished me a Merry Christmas too. I don't think she's Hindu though. Sort of cute. Wouldn't kick her out of bed. She'd probably kick me out though.


I say Merry Christmas to people to be polite, not a true fan of the holiday though due to the commercial exploitation (just a person belief). However, I happened to say Merry Christmas to a co-worker I didn't know and got an Atheist tirade in return about how organized religion is the downfall of society and how people who believe in holidays based on religion are Neanderthals. I could handle about 2-3 minutes (getting snacks out of the vending machine) and then turned around and left her while she was still spouting off. She didn't know my religious beliefs but proceeded to grill me on hers, cute.
 
2012-12-23 09:14:10 PM
JESUS STILL LOVES YOU
 
2012-12-23 09:22:28 PM

letrole: Darth_Lukecash: Religion is a belief system that contains a supernatural element.
letrole: Buddhism
ParaHandy: Oh yes it does ....

The Dalai Lama states:
"From one viewpoint, Buddhism is a religion, from another viewpoint Buddhism is a science of mind and not a religion. Buddhism can be a bridge between these two sides. Therefore, with this conviction I try to have closer ties with scientists, mainly in the fields of cosmology, psychology, neurobiology and physics. In these fields there are insights to share, and to a certain extent we can work together."


So you proved my point... Unless you believed devas exist. Or there haven't been stories about Buddha teaching gods.
 
2012-12-23 09:22:38 PM

IF you do not want me pushing my belief system on you, do not push yours on me.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-23 09:24:27 PM
I am an atheist and personally I'd love to see any person who follows a "higher power" strung up by the neck until dead.

Religion has been the most destructive force since the beginning of mankind. F*ck the religious - I'd love to have a license to kill you all.

It's not genocide, it's godocide. So f*ck god, f*ck jesus, f*ck mary, f*ck allah and f*ck whatever other "gods" are out there.

You're all fools.
 
2012-12-23 09:28:13 PM

RabidJade: Happy Hours: squirrelflavoredyogurt: The Hindu guy at the liquor store wished me a "Happy Christmas", so I wished him one back. When a Hindu and an Atheist are saying, "Happy Christmas" to each other, I think Santa and Fox won. I think Jesus is still losing his flock though.

No, it just means you're being hollowly polite to each other.

The girl at my liquor store wished me a Merry Christmas too. I don't think she's Hindu though. Sort of cute. Wouldn't kick her out of bed. She'd probably kick me out though.

I say Merry Christmas to people to be polite, not a true fan of the holiday though due to the commercial exploitation (just a person belief). However, I happened to say Merry Christmas to a co-worker I didn't know and got an Atheist tirade in return about how organized religion is the downfall of society and how people who believe in holidays based on religion are Neanderthals. I could handle about 2-3 minutes (getting snacks out of the vending machine) and then turned around and left her while she was still spouting off. She didn't know my religious beliefs but proceeded to grill me on hers, cute.


Wow - I hope you just looked at her like she had gone batshiat insane and then told her that you hoped she wouldn't be offended if you told her to have a nice day.

Merry Xmas everyone, and I mean that sincerely - even to you atheists and Jews and Muslims....and all you other pagans as well.
 
2012-12-23 09:29:03 PM

DaCaptain19: Religion has been the most destructive force since the beginning of mankind.


That is probably incorrect. Humans must have gained some survival advantage through the development of religion, or those mental functions related to a propensity towards religious cultural development.
 
2012-12-23 09:35:49 PM

bunner: So far, all I see is a lot of dismissive snorting, arrogant authority postures, some pretty nebulous science and straight off the ready to wear rack trolling. I do have the advantage of expecting nothing else, though. Nobody knows, folks. That's the adventure.


You're not very good at this. Quantity != quality.
 
2012-12-23 09:39:48 PM

Harry_Seldon: DaCaptain19: Religion has been the most destructive force since the beginning of mankind.

That is probably incorrect. Humans must have gained some survival advantage through the development of religion, or those mental functions related to a propensity towards religious cultural development.


Well, we both have different opinions and I'll respect yours. My comment was directed at the genocide of societies decreed by "God" pre Jesus time. I actually spent decades as a "christian" and I know a LOT about the Bible.

So societies existing "B.C." slaughtered entire populations based on "Gods" command.

And of course we have - in relatively modern day - the Crusades, the Inquisition, etc. That was my only point.

I'm not sure what the evolutionary advantage of religion could be. The "constructive" aspects of religion are curiously discussed by Karl Marx, who most people believe said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" - a mis-quote which - in it's entirety, below. Note that Marx shows religion to be a false - but beneficial - system of belief:

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." - Karl Marx.

So you can see that Marx actually is advocating "religion" as an effective (but false) means for humans to have solace from the world (at his time)...people were seen to be economically depressed, etc. so in his mind, religion is the "opiate" that helps people find (illusory) happiness.

It would be GOOD, according to Marx, if happiness could be found in the absence of religion, but he recognizes that - for now - religion will be that false happiness.
 
2012-12-23 09:41:21 PM

DaCaptain19: I am an atheist and personally I'd love to see any person who follows a "higher power" strung up by the neck until dead.

Religion has been the most destructive force since the beginning of mankind. F*ck the religious - I'd love to have a license to kill you all.

It's not genocide, it's godocide. So f*ck god, f*ck jesus, f*ck mary, f*ck allah and f*ck whatever other "gods" are out there.

You're all fools.


How very atheist of yoU? Just because you don't believe in god it doesn't mean you're smart. You seem to have some anger issues.
 
2012-12-23 09:49:03 PM
This is going a ways back in the thread, but the physicist who made the "stop telling god what to do" quip to Einstein was Niels Bohr. And I never dumped the dodos over the cliff. So The Honourable Prophet Bobby Henderson's theory holds, to the best of my knowledge. Dodos can indeed fly, they are just not sufficiently motivated to.

I bid you adieu, and hope you enjoy the remainder of the thread.
 
2012-12-23 09:53:15 PM

Harry_Seldon: DaCaptain19: Religion has been the most destructive force since the beginning of mankind.

That is probably incorrect. Humans must have gained some survival advantage through the development of religion, or those mental functions related to a propensity towards religious cultural development.


Probably because first of all, it appeals to our need for causation and our need for control over causation. I.e. why didn't the river rise this year? It must be because the river spirit is angry. Why is the spirit angry? It must be because we've done something wrong. Therefore, if we do something to placate the river spirit, the river will rise, and all will be well. When the river rose again the following year--proof! We did X, the river rose, ergo, doing X makes the god happy. The need for control over our environment has always been important to humans.

Also--this idea isn't original with me, btw, but I forget where I saw it--back in prehistory, curing diseases was the role of the shaman or witch doctor, who could reliably placate those spirits and was mostly placebo effect. The better you believed in the spirits and the shaman's ability to intercede with them, the more likely you were to survive. Those people who were skeptical and doubted in the "cure" didn't get to pass on their skeptical traits to their offspring quite as often.

Combine the two over the millennia, and a strong tendency to believe in gods and those who speak to the gods is going to be hard-wired into the human brain. Add in all the things that are difficult to explain and seem only to make sense if there is some kind of supernatural being out there--and you have the roots of religion.
 
2012-12-23 10:00:44 PM

ParaHandy: I have a serious question for the Christians: does Allah exist? Please explain your answer.


They are the same god. NEXT!
 
2012-12-23 10:05:38 PM

LisaNeedsBraces: ParaHandy: I have a serious question for the Christians: does Allah exist? Please explain your answer.

They are the same god. NEXT!


^ OK, so I answered for the Christians while being an atheist. Is the world going to implode...?
 
2012-12-23 10:06:28 PM

DaCaptain19: I am an atheist and personally I'd love to see any person who follows a "higher power" strung up by the neck until dead.

Religion has been the most destructive force since the beginning of mankind. F*ck the religious - I'd love to have a license to kill you all.

It's not genocide, it's godocide. So f*ck god, f*ck jesus, f*ck mary, f*ck allah and f*ck whatever other "gods" are out there.

You're all fools.


0/10
 
2012-12-23 10:10:13 PM
Can we all just try to get along? I know this is dark and I have been a part of it for a long time, so I don't need a welcome to fark post.

So, here is what I have, when my brother and I didn't get along we would sit in a corner of the same room and were forced by our parents to not fight for one hour. We didn't have to get along, we didn't have to agree and we didn't even have to talk. However, we could not fight.

I guess I am asking, everyone, if I have a belief that is different than yours can we sit in separate corners of the same room? We don't have to get along, we don't have to agree and we don't have to even talk to each other. However, I think that after an hour we would both be able to find something good in one another and realize that we all are not too different.

I hope you all have a great time suspending with the ones you love.
 
2012-12-23 10:10:28 PM

DaCaptain19: Well, we both have different opinions and I'll respect yours. My comment was directed at the genocide of societies decreed by "God" pre Jesus time. I actually spent decades as a "christian" and I know a LOT about the Bible.


When I say evolutionary advantage, I am talking about ~150,000 years ago. There was likely some survival benefit. Note that humans a not only survived, but dominated the planet. So it is possible, maybe likely, that the propensity to develop religion has been an integral factor in species success. That says absolutely nothing about the killings and persecutions done in the name of religion. Certainly not excusing it. I
 
2012-12-23 10:10:59 PM

The One True TheDavid: mbillips: The One True TheDavid:

[...]


SHOP LESS, PRAY MORE!

Your blog sucks.

/Secular Christmas is awesome

There is no such thing as a "secular CHRISTmas." You're worshipping Jesus, Mammon, or both.


//Christmas dinner is awesome

You need a religious excuse to have dinner with family & friends?


///Shopping for presents and getting presents is fun

What's it like being rich?


////Caroling is fun
//Christmas parties are fun
//Atheist

Some atheists go Christmas caroling? What do you sing that doesn't violate your non-beliefs? Or are you able to sing "God rest ye merry gentlemen" with an ironic smirk? Group singing is fun, but it doesn't have to be religious. Or don't you know that?

As for presents, dinners and parties, why do you need Xmas for that? Do you need advertisers' prompting to remember your family and friends? Everybody has a birthday, every married couple has an anniversary, and as far as I know everybody likes receiving presents "Just because!"

But don't let me stand in the way of your vapid weakness: if it weren't for silly people who could I feel superior to?

Hint: I'm an atheist communist. Or should I say communist atheist? People's private superstitions don't oppress me, and the hallowed tradition of Xmas shopping -- the time when retailers profit most -- is just another way to redistribute wealth to the 1%.


I see what you're doing here, but we've already got one. We're full up. Sorry.
 
2012-12-23 10:13:26 PM

great_tigers: Can we all just try to get along? I know this is dark and I have been a part of it for a long time, so I don't need a welcome to fark post.

So, here is what I have, when my brother and I didn't get along we would sit in a corner of the same room and were forced by our parents to not fight for one hour. We didn't have to get along, we didn't have to agree and we didn't even have to talk. However, we could not fight.

I guess I am asking, everyone, if I have a belief that is different than yours can we sit in separate corners of the same room? We don't have to get along, we don't have to agree and we don't have to even talk to each other. However, I think that after an hour we would both be able to find something good in one another and realize that we all are not too different.

I hope you all have a great time suspendingspending with the ones you love.

 
2012-12-23 10:17:10 PM

DaCaptain19: I am an atheist and personally I'd love to see any person who follows a "higher power" strung up by the neck until dead.

Religion has been the most destructive force since the beginning of mankind. F*ck the religious - I'd love to have a license to kill you all.

It's not genocide, it's godocide. So f*ck god, f*ck jesus, f*ck mary, f*ck allah and f*ck whatever other "gods" are out there.

You're all fools.


Brilliant. Will you call this maneuver the Yeehaw then? There's a Jihad on the religious side. So at least make a name for it.

Also I hope all the political farkers of all party affiliation who are Christian, Buddhist, etc make note of your name in order to see if you'll be at a fark party. The last place they want to drink and be merry with Drew is one containing a farker that's only restraining himself/herself from killing them by waiting for a license.
 
2012-12-23 10:18:42 PM

LargeCanine: farked3ways2sunday: LargeCanine: Brave? When these Atheists go to Egypt to oppose Sharia, then they can claim courage.

Then they would most certainly die by the hands of those medieval savages. Not saying we're better, not by any means. Just that they are THAT much more screwed up than we are. People there think religious education will feed them and remain willfully uneducated and marred by false ideas. The ones that do get smart, convince others to strap on bomb-vest to blow up innocents. And as the wheels roll on.

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect them to go there. I would say they were idiots if they did. I just don't think its in any way "brave" to advocate an opinion in the USA. There is nothing to fear, therefore controlling fear - a fair definition of courage - is not an issue. They are in greater danger of Smug.


By means of direct bodily harm, not much to fear. Though there have been abortion clinic bombings..

But there is plenty to be wary of. Dominionism as well as mis-education.
 
2012-12-23 10:27:46 PM
People just need to remember the reason for the season, plain and simple.

From the book of Irving: "...and on the third day zombie Santa Claus rose from the dead to walk the Earth unseen. All seeing, all knowing, he watches you while you sleep, ..., dines on human tears, ..., knows the innermost secrets of your heart."
 
2012-12-23 10:32:40 PM

kingoomieiii: [thoughtcatalogcom.files.wordpress.com image 584x813]

See the 2nd point


I'm not really sure what you hope to accomplish with that chart.
I went through it, arrived at the point where it said "Congratulations, this is how rational human beings exchange ideas", and I'd like to offer you a flow chart of my own:

When pretending to want to engage in conversation with people, can you NOT be a patronizing douche?

(1) Yes ======> Great. This is how mature people talk to one another. Let's chat.
(2) No ======> k, well then what makes you think I'm interested in talking to you?

[psst... you went with Door #2]

If you want to insult people who exit the flow up until then, go for it, but if I'm not one of those people, So if you want to be a dick to all of the ideological demagogues, I get that, but why are you being a dick to me?
 
2012-12-23 10:40:15 PM
The Lord God created cancer. Please remember the reason for the season and pray for cancer. There are so many false Christians trying to destroy Gods creation. Why do you hate God, cancer, and baby Jesus?
"like" if you want cancer and Jesus in your life
 
2012-12-23 10:41:23 PM
Christmas has nothing to do with Christ anyways, as anyone who has paid attention ever knows.
 
2012-12-23 11:06:12 PM

Huggermugger: You're not very good at this. Quantity != quality.


Piss off dickweed. How's that? Troll. : )
 
2012-12-23 11:13:55 PM
So changing the name of Christmas or whatever days you want to call the 24th/25th, which has been going on for thousands of years, is now caused by athiests?
 
2012-12-23 11:15:37 PM

Gato Blanco: Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity. Some religions are atheistic, but atheism itself is not a religion. It's like saying stamp collecting is a hobby, therefore not collecting stamps is also a hobby.


My hobby, let me tell you about it.
 
2012-12-23 11:16:41 PM

kingoomieiii: I really hope they come through. Christmas farking blows. An entire perfectly good week, destroyed.


Sure you say that now but without it would you get the week or a few days paid off??? HUMMM?? Change of tune? Liking it better?
 
2012-12-23 11:23:34 PM
PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW!

gremlindog.com
 
2012-12-23 11:24:08 PM

GAT_00: That argument makes a lot of sense. When you live down here, you really do feel threatened just for being nonreligious and are treated as a threat by supposedly good Christians who hate you.


Judging by most of your posts I have to think that your atheism isn't number one on the "Top 10 reasons people hate GAT_00"
 
2012-12-23 11:28:01 PM

Prey4reign: Here's an ironic fact about Christmas -- the man considered the George Washington of Pakistan, Muhammed Ali Jinnah, was born on December 25th, 1876.


upload.wikimedia.org

Coincidentally, I was just reading about this movie "Jinnah" last night. I haven't seen it, but it stars Christopher Lee and is supposed to be very good.
 
2012-12-23 11:56:46 PM

sudo give me more cowbell: I'm not really sure what you hope to accomplish with that chart.


I forgot to include a quote with it. It wasn't directed at you. Doesn't really matter now.

sudo give me more cowbell: k, well then what makes you think I'm interested in talking to you?


The email I received with your response to it.

/patronizing snarky comment in response to a patronizing snarky comment in response to a patronizing snarky comment
 
2012-12-23 11:57:42 PM

Wayne 985: Prey4reign: Here's an ironic fact about Christmas -- the man considered the George Washington of Pakistan, Muhammed Ali Jinnah, was born on December 25th, 1876.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 200x300]

Coincidentally, I was just reading about this movie "Jinnah" last night. I haven't seen it, but it stars Christopher Lee and is supposed to be very good.


I was digging in my ass when it suddenly occurred to me that on December 25th, 1932 there was a magnitude 7.6 earthquake in Gansu, China which killed 275 people. Then I went back to digging in my ass.
 
2012-12-24 12:35:10 AM
Whatever happened to majority rule?

Anyway ... if you have no values, there's no point in tradition ....
 
2012-12-24 12:52:25 AM

Clemkadidlefark: Anyway ... if you have no values, there's no point in tradition ....


Lacking religion =/= lacking values

Most of us still value a good education for our nation's youth(especially this one, as so many religions want to use that education system to dumb down the kids by teaching false "science" placing kids at a distinct disadvantage), being kind to those around you(ie as peaceful as any other human being can stand to be), fixing societal problems such as poverty and crime, maintaining freedom and equality

Atheism =/= Apathy in all aspects of life

You don't need belief in a diety to care about those things or to legitimize a path towards them, you only need a bit of intelligence and a base survival drive.
 
2012-12-24 01:17:08 AM

Gato Blanco: Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity. Some religions are atheistic, but atheism itself is not a religion. It's like saying stamp collecting is a hobby, therefore not collecting stamps is also a hobby.


I would say "proving the fact why collecting stamps is wrong and I will prove it to you based on my opinion" is a hobby. For a lot out there, Atheism is not a non-hobby as your comparison described.
 
2012-12-24 01:33:48 AM

RabidJade: Gato Blanco: Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity. Some religions are atheistic, but atheism itself is not a religion. It's like saying stamp collecting is a hobby, therefore not collecting stamps is also a hobby.

I would say "proving the fact why collecting stamps is wrong and I will prove it to you based on my opinion" is a hobby. For a lot out there, Atheism is not a non-hobby as your comparison described.


It's not that atheists go out of their way to take apart religion on religious grounds(sure, some few do, but not many really), it's that religion tries to insinuate itself into territories that should be non-religious(Ie government).

When people paste their stamp collection on my TV, car windows, money, pages of text books, etc....Me trying to stop that is not a hobby.

Despite what the naive would like to think of reality, religion in many such places can cause a real harm to society.

Christians tend to not get it. If it was Allah and his teachings plastered everywhere, women in burka's, stonings, what would their reaction be? I predict actual riots and violence, yet another holy war, literally.

Atheists? They just want the shiat off of the courthouse lawn and for religion to not influence law and educational standards.

Is that so much to ask?
 
2012-12-24 01:38:30 AM

BillDozer357: Bhruic: FTA: What's more, most American nonbelievers are not even atheists

Um, no. Most non-religious Americans might not be atheists, but if you are nonbeliever, you are, by definition, an atheist.

Or agnostic, or non-theist, or Laveyan Satanists even. There are many types of non-believers.


No. Agnostics can be theists or atheists, they believe that it cannot be proven either way. But that is still a belief. Non-theist means the same thing as atheist. Laveyan Satanists can be viewed either way but tend to be those who believe the opposite of the theists.
 
2012-12-24 01:47:00 AM

DaCaptain19: I am an atheist and personally I'd love to see any person who follows a "higher power" strung up by the neck until dead.

Religion has been the most destructive force since the beginning of mankind. F*ck the religious - I'd love to have a license to kill you all.

It's not genocide, it's godocide. So f*ck god, f*ck jesus, f*ck mary, f*ck allah and f*ck whatever other "gods" are out there.

You're all fools.


This is the type of person that I think of as an anti-theist. They don't believe that there is/are god(s) and you are an idiot if you believe that there might be. This is the atheistic version of the evangelicals.
 
2012-12-24 02:53:34 AM
I'm an Atheist. I'm not anti-religion. I couldn't care less what anyone else believes. I don't reject the idea of God, and I'm certainly not convinced He doesn't exist. When my mother died I wanted so badly to believe that she was in a better place, looking down on us. Two years later, and not a day goes by when I don't wish she were somewhere, smiling down on me, wishing she could tell me not to be sad.

I accept nothing on faith, including the idea that supernatural creatures don't exist. Let me repeat that: I accept nothing on faith. Faith and belief are a part of the religious experience, but are not are part of mine (i.e. Atheism is NOT a religion, but then you trolls already knew that, didn't you?). But it doesn't require faith to observe the world around you and draw conclusions from those observations, nor does it require belief in anything at all. Logic and observation were sufficient for me to conclude that the Easter Bunny was a myth. It didn't require faith or belief, just an educated, adult mind.

Given how badly I want to believe in God, it seems unlikely that I would overlook any sign of magic and miracles in my life. There's still time for me to find God, and I've got a very open mind regarding this. After all, if I had a scientific hypothesis and it proved to be incorrect, I would modify my theory to be consistent with observation. The paradox is that I know of no more insightful instrument for determining truth than the Scientific Method, which -- by definition -- favors science over religion.

I open my Bible, and on page one it says that the Earth was created before the stars existed in the heavens -- a testable hypothesis. Science tells me this is false, and paints an entirely different picture than Genesis. I have no reason to believe Genesis is true; in my world the scientific method must at least be a starting point to getting at the truthfulness of a thing. So using Occam's Razor I choose the internally consistent and flexible Science over the rigid and self-contradictory Biblical account.

Does magic exist in the Universe? Maybe. Have I been able to reliably observe magic forces at work? Alas, no. Never.

Christians: Serious question. Do you believe that the children at Sandy Hook Elementary were meant to die? Was that all part of God's plan for the little 6-year-old's that day? I understand the doctrine of "free will," but how does that apply to the children? According to Christian doctrine, as I understand it, we are given the free will to defy God's wishes. But what about the victims? Do they deserve to die (as Pat Robertson said about Katrina victims) for past sins? Will God only take those who were baptized (and are therefore washed of Original Sin), or will he take them all? If so, why be baptized in the first place???

Religion confuses me. Science enlightens me. Both views describe a Universe of almost unimaginable wonder and variety. But only science sincerely searches for the truth, and only science has the adaptability to someday actually find it.
 
2012-12-24 03:08:19 AM

St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?


Because many atheists are simply miserable people who won't stop until the rest of the planet is miserable along with them.

/waits for the obligatory "but but but I'm an atheist and I'm not miserable!"
//yes, yes you are
 
2012-12-24 08:14:06 AM
ibsalamander: Christians: Serious question. Do you believe that the children at Sandy Hook Elementary were meant to die? Was that all part of God's plan for the little 6-year-old's that day? I understand the doctrine of "free will," but how does that apply to the children? According to Christian doctrine, as I understand it, we are given the free will to defy God's wishes. But what about the victims? Do they deserve to die (as Pat Robertson said about Katrina victims) for past sins? Will God only take those who were baptized (and are therefore washed of Original Sin), or will he take them all? If so, why be baptized in the first place???


If you want to learn, you must stop answering your own questions with disingenuous suppositions.
 
2012-12-24 08:57:54 AM

octopied: Christmas has nothing to do with Christ anyways, as anyone who has paid attention ever knows.


Religious people do as they are told. And they are told not to think outside the box.
 
2012-12-24 08:58:04 AM

ParaHandy: You can't prove a negative, ever. There is an invisible monster under your bed that only I can see.


Guest: There is a Unicorn in your kitchen.


I completely agree that either of those things could be true. I'm betting that they aren't so that is what I would base any actual decisions I make on, but I would never go as far as to say I'm absolutely sure that you're wrong about that.
 
2012-12-24 09:26:07 AM

Gyrfalcon: Why exactly is it wrong to want "Peace on earth, good will to men"?


It's not....?

Quaker: ParaHandy: You can't prove a negative, ever. There is an invisible monster under your bed that only I can see.

Guest: There is a Unicorn in your kitchen.

I completely agree that either of those things could be true. I'm betting that they aren't so that is what I would base any actual decisions I make on, but I would never go as far as to say I'm absolutely sure that you're wrong about that.


I can say, with absolute certainty, that there is not an invisible monster under anybody's bed that only they can see, or that there is a unicorn in anybody's kitchen.

If I'm proved wrong I shall, red-faced, admit it. But keeping an open mind doesn't mean you have to be stupid.
 
2012-12-24 09:27:46 AM

TerminalEchoes: St_Francis_P: And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Because many atheists are simply miserable people who won't stop until the rest of the planet is miserable along with them.

/waits for the obligatory "but but but I'm an atheist and I'm not miserable!"
//yes, yes you are


The most miserable atheist is happy when compared to the happiest Catholic.
 
2012-12-24 09:29:11 AM

Mambo Bananapatch: Gyrfalcon: Why exactly is it wrong to want "Peace on earth, good will to men"?

It's not....?Quaker: ParaHandy: You can't prove a negative, ever. There is an invisible monster under your bed that only I can see.

Guest: There is a Unicorn in your kitchen.

I completely agree that either of those things could be true. I'm betting that they aren't so that is what I would base any actual decisions I make on, but I would never go as far as to say I'm absolutely sure that you're wrong about that.

I can say, with absolute certainty, that there is not an invisible monster under anybody's bed that only they can see, or that there is not a unicorn in anybody's kitchen.

If I'm proved wrong I shall, red-faced, admit it. But keeping an open mind doesn't mean you have to be stupid.


*face reddens slightly
 
2012-12-24 09:38:43 AM

Shazam999: The One True TheDavid: St_Francis_P:

And they must be stopped

Uhm...why?

Speaking as a religion-hating atheist, I really don't care what people believe. What bothers me being beaten up by commercialism: I'd rather those few "Christians" who really care about the alleged birthday of their man-god do all they can to make the yearly shopping frenzy unfashionable.

Have your candlelit services, pass out Advent calendars, pray in public (as long as its voluntary: you don't want us to force you NOT to pray, do you?), wish each other (and even me) any goddamn thing you want, but for chrissake stop shopping if you truly love Jesus! You're welcome to picket against "Xmas shopping" in the public areas of shopping malls: I'll defend to the death your right to do so, I might even join you with a sign reading "An atheist against Xmas SHOPPING." And hey, if anarchists can break windows at Starbuck's then y'all can trash a Macy's for all I care. As long as you don't make celebrating the birth of your savior mandatory, please please please contrast religious observance with all that worship of Mammon.

And don't get me started on the goyification of Hanukkah. If there is no Jewish holiday where gift-giving is holy then there are always a few hundred secular days to do it on: every Jew has a birthday, for example, even if s/he's not the messiah.

SHOP LESS, PRAY MORE!

Wow, the wargarbble is strong in this one. You really need a hobby.


7-Eleven has their helicopters on for $29.99. Ready to fly out of the box!
 
2012-12-24 09:53:52 AM

ibsalamander: Christians: Serious question. Do you believe that the children at Sandy Hook Elementary were meant to die? Was that all part of God's plan for the little 6-year-old's that day? I understand the doctrine of "free will," but how does that apply to the children? According to Christian doctrine, as I understand it, we are given the free will to defy God's wishes. But what about the victims? Do they deserve to die (as Pat Robertson said about Katrina victims) for past sins? Will God only take those who were baptized (and are therefore washed of Original Sin), or will he take them all? If so, why be baptized in the first place???


As a Christian, I can state that no, the children were not meant to die. It is the bane of free will that one defying God's wishes can place harm on another. Of course, the worst form of defying the wishes of God is one that thinks he is doing the right thing when he is not, and ends up killing many in the process. The only way to stop it however is to do something. Talk to someone troubled, feel for them, try to offer advise, and hope they don't go down that path.

/the only way for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
 
2012-12-24 10:24:19 AM

Philbb: DaCaptain19: I am an atheist and personally I'd love to see any person who follows a "higher power" strung up by the neck until dead.

Religion has been the most destructive force since the beginning of mankind. F*ck the religious - I'd love to have a license to kill you all.

It's not genocide, it's godocide. So f*ck god, f*ck jesus, f*ck mary, f*ck allah and f*ck whatever other "gods" are out there.

You're all fools.


This is the type of person that I think of as an anti-theist. They don't believe that there is/are god(s) and you are an idiot if you believe that there might be. This is the atheistic version of the evangelicals.


You are correct ... this is an anti-theist. One of a very tiny sub-set of atheists. But all the religious people arguing here like to pretend we are all like this and they refuse to listen when we tell them otherwise.

The reason is obvious: this person's position is easily assailable. It makes claims unsupported by evidence and expresses a desire to convert anyone who does not agree. Just like religion.

So the religious paint all of us with this brush because they know they cannot argue with the simple, logical and completely reasonable position of "I cannot accept your claim without evidence". It is intellectually dishonest of them but they cannot find a way to challenge our actual position so they resort to dishonesty in their arguments.
 
2012-12-24 10:26:56 AM

Mambo Bananapatch: Gyrfalcon: Why exactly is it wrong to want "Peace on earth, good will to men"?

It's not....?Quaker: ParaHandy: You can't prove a negative, ever. There is an invisible monster under your bed that only I can see.

Guest: There is a Unicorn in your kitchen.

I completely agree that either of those things could be true. I'm betting that they aren't so that is what I would base any actual decisions I make on, but I would never go as far as to say I'm absolutely sure that you're wrong about that.

I can say, with absolute certainty, that there is not an invisible monster under anybody's bed that only they can see, or that there is a unicorn in anybody's kitchen.

If I'm proved wrong I shall, red-faced, admit it. But keeping an open mind doesn't mean you have to be stupid.


I don't think that the FSM, IPU or any deities actually exist, and I am certain enough to bet my and anyone else's life on it. It was a gedanken point for the believers, which your observation underlines nicely.

People believe in gods for the same reason I used to believe the sink swirl myth ... they were told to by an adult they trusted. If they had been told about the IPU from day one they'd worship her.
 
2012-12-24 01:54:13 PM

DaCaptain19: I am an atheist and personally I'd love to see any person who follows a "higher power" strung up by the neck until dead.

Religion has been the most destructive force since the beginning of mankind. F*ck the religious - I'd love to have a license to kill you all.

It's not genocide, it's godocide. So f*ck god, f*ck jesus, f*ck mary, f*ck allah and f*ck whatever other "gods" are out there.

You're all fools.


0/10 Way, way too over the top. More likely to spark snickering than bickering.
 
2012-12-24 02:02:43 PM

phrawgh: Wayne 985: Prey4reign: Here's an ironic fact about Christmas -- the man considered the George Washington of Pakistan, Muhammed Ali Jinnah, was born on December 25th, 1876.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 200x300]

Coincidentally, I was just reading about this movie "Jinnah" last night. I haven't seen it, but it stars Christopher Lee and is supposed to be very good.

I was digging in my ass when it suddenly occurred to me that on December 25th, 1932 there was a magnitude 7.6 earthquake in Gansu, China which killed 275 people. Then I went back to digging in my ass.


Did you find anything?
 
2012-12-24 02:42:16 PM

Mambo Bananapatch: Gyrfalcon: Why exactly is it wrong to want "Peace on earth, good will to men"?

It's not....?Quaker: ParaHandy: You can't prove a negative, ever. There is an invisible monster under your bed that only I can see.

Guest: There is a Unicorn in your kitchen.

I completely agree that either of those things could be true. I'm betting that they aren't so that is what I would base any actual decisions I make on, but I would never go as far as to say I'm absolutely sure that you're wrong about that.

I can say, with absolute certainty, that there is not an invisible monster under anybody's bed that only they can see, or that there is a unicorn in anybody's kitchen.

If I'm proved wrong I shall, red-faced, admit it. But keeping an open mind doesn't mean you have to be stupid.


The fact that you acknowledge the possibility of being proven wrong, however remote, proves my point that you're not really absolutely certain.
 
2012-12-24 03:44:31 PM

KWess: ToxicMunkee: This year the Christmas season started before most people were done eating their Thanksgiving dinner. The War on Christmas is a lie.

This is exactly right. Christmas is probably the most powerful phenomenon in Western culture. It is a social and commercial juggernaut.

Christmas drives decision-making and scheduling within a huge number of industries, touching all retail sectors, travel, movies, music, all forms of entertainment really...shipping, food, etc.

And consider the number of businesses in the Americas, Europe, and down under that simply shut-down for the week, a huge number of factories, offices, warehouses, agencies, that are just closed for a week (or more!).

Every school in Christendom, closed.

The impact of Christmas on our society - even beyond the huge amount of cultural and sentimental significance, and the huge amount of creative energy devoted to it - is probably too big to be measured. What would the transactional value of Christmas be? The absolute dollar value of all the plusses and minuses? 100's of billions? More than a trillion?

Americans were shocked that nearly $2B was spent on this year's Presidential election. Americans spend nearly $1B dollars on candy canes EVERY YEAR.

No group of atheists could ever hope to make a dent. It's so strange to us in fact, that discussing it is considered newsworthy!


Perhaps as we continue to move towards a more integrated, multicultural, secular-ish society, the holiday season will become one huge festival - gods optional.
 
2012-12-24 03:45:28 PM

Quaker: Mambo Bananapatch: Gyrfalcon: Why exactly is it wrong to want "Peace on earth, good will to men"?

It's not....?Quaker: ParaHandy: You can't prove a negative, ever. There is an invisible monster under your bed that only I can see.

Guest: There is a Unicorn in your kitchen.

I completely agree that either of those things could be true. I'm betting that they aren't so that is what I would base any actual decisions I make on, but I would never go as far as to say I'm absolutely sure that you're wrong about that.

I can say, with absolute certainty, that there is not an invisible monster under anybody's bed that only they can see, or that there is a unicorn in anybody's kitchen.

If I'm proved wrong I shall, red-faced, admit it. But keeping an open mind doesn't mean you have to be stupid.

The fact that you acknowledge the possibility of being proven wrong, however remote, proves my point that you're not really absolutely certain.


It does nothing of the sort. Let me assure you in the most unambiguous language one can use in polite society: I am absolutely certain that there are no invisible monsters or unicorns. Absolutely, 100% certain. I am equally certain that no proof exists to the contrary. I DO NOT ADMIT THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING PROVEN WRONG. (Forgive the shouting; I wish only to emphasize the point.)

If, despite my certainty, such evidence were to turn up, and if it were irrefutable, I would acknowledge that I was wrong.
 
2012-12-24 04:08:47 PM
"HEY LET'S ALL LOG ON HERE AND ACT LIKE COMPLETE C*NTS UNTIL SOMEBODY GETS FED UP AND REACTS BADLY, CAUSE THEN WE WIN AND HAVE PROVEN WE ARE SMARTER THAN EVERYBODY!" You know what? This joint is getting old and it smells funny.
 
2012-12-24 04:13:23 PM

Mambo Bananapatch: I wish only to emphasize the point.


It won't help.

He's equating "possible" with your hypothetical. He's not quite equipped, mentally, to handle a discussion as such.
 
2012-12-24 04:14:41 PM

bunner: "HEY LET'S ALL LOG ON HERE AND ACT LIKE COMPLETE C*NTS UNTIL SOMEBODY GETS FED UP AND REACTS BADLY, CAUSE THEN WE WIN AND HAVE PROVEN WE ARE SMARTER THAN EVERYBODY!" You know what? This joint is getting old and it smells funny.


Welcome to Fark! Indeed, the internet at large as well.
 
2012-12-24 04:20:05 PM

omeganuepsilon: bunner: "HEY LET'S ALL LOG ON HERE AND ACT LIKE COMPLETE C*NTS UNTIL SOMEBODY GETS FED UP AND REACTS BADLY, CAUSE THEN WE WIN AND HAVE PROVEN WE ARE SMARTER THAN EVERYBODY!" You know what? This joint is getting old and it smells funny.

Welcome to Fark! Indeed, the internet at large as well.


Not really. A ghetto is created by how people populate it choose to live. Not all that impressive, is it?

/been here for a while. I get it. do you?
 
2012-12-24 05:03:59 PM

bunner: I get it.


Apparently not.

You're complaining about Fark's(and much of the internet's) status quo. Time to STFU or GTFO, anything else is futile.
 
2012-12-24 05:08:45 PM

omeganuepsilon: You're complaining about Fark's(and much of the internet's) status quo. Time to STFU or GTFO, anything else is futile.


Or, you could, you know, blow me while you put forth the perfect example of why this place is a dump and pretend I care about your dime store authority posture. I mean, I'm bored and a little lonely, but I not enough to pretend you're interesting. : )
 
2012-12-24 05:12:38 PM

TerminalEchoes: Because many atheists are simply miserable people who won't stop until the rest of the planet is miserable along with them.


The difference between the misery of an atheist and the happiness of a theist is that the atheist's misery is real.
 
2012-12-24 05:15:27 PM

bunner: omeganuepsilon: You're complaining about Fark's(and much of the internet's) status quo. Time to STFU or GTFO, anything else is futile.

Or, you could, you know, blow me while you put forth the perfect example of why this place is a dump and pretend I care about your dime store authority posture. I mean, I'm bored and a little lonely, but I not enough to pretend you're interesting. : )


The perfect example, says the guy who also says "blow me".

Yeah, I'm the bad guy.
 
2012-12-24 05:18:24 PM

omeganuepsilon: Yeah, I'm the bad guy.


No, you're the clown blatantly trolling me to see how long I'll respond because you think everybody reading it i snickering and high fiving you, proving my point exactly. And you'll keep tossing out this drivel as long as I respond. No content, no discourse. Just snotty remarks with a fish hook attached to it. This sh*t stopped being clever about an hour and a half after IRC got old,. but carry on.
 
2012-12-24 05:37:48 PM

People_are_Idiots: ibsalamander: Christians: Serious question. Do you believe that the children at Sandy Hook Elementary were meant to die? Was that all part of God's plan for the little 6-year-old's that day? I understand the doctrine of "free will," but how does that apply to the children? According to Christian doctrine, as I understand it, we are given the free will to defy God's wishes. But what about the victims? Do they deserve to die (as Pat Robertson said about Katrina victims) for past sins? Will God only take those who were baptized (and are therefore washed of Original Sin), or will he take them all? If so, why be baptized in the first place???

As a Christian, I can state that no, the children were not meant to die. It is the bane of free will that one defying God's wishes can place harm on another. Of course, the worst form of defying the wishes of God is one that thinks he is doing the right thing when he is not, and ends up killing many in the process. The only way to stop it however is to do something. Talk to someone troubled, feel for them, try to offer advise, and hope they don't go down that path.

/the only way for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.


When you say that the children were not meant to die, you are implying that God doesn't have a plan. If it's entirely up to "good men" to recognize and oppose evil, where does God fit in?
 
2012-12-24 05:38:37 PM
Thou doth projectuth too much.
 
2012-12-24 05:41:13 PM

ibsalamander: When you say that the children were not meant to die, you are implying that God doesn't have a plan.


Or if he does, it's not a very strong plan.
 
2012-12-24 05:44:59 PM

omeganuepsilon: Thou doth projectuth too much.


Nah.
 
2012-12-24 07:12:59 PM

ibsalamander: People_are_Idiots: ibsalamander: Christians: Serious question. Do you believe that the children at Sandy Hook Elementary were meant to die? Was that all part of God's plan for the little 6-year-old's that day? I understand the doctrine of "free will," but how does that apply to the children? According to Christian doctrine, as I understand it, we are given the free will to defy God's wishes. But what about the victims? Do they deserve to die (as Pat Robertson said about Katrina victims) for past sins? Will God only take those who were baptized (and are therefore washed of Original Sin), or will he take them all? If so, why be baptized in the first place???

As a Christian, I can state that no, the children were not meant to die. It is the bane of free will that one defying God's wishes can place harm on another. Of course, the worst form of defying the wishes of God is one that thinks he is doing the right thing when he is not, and ends up killing many in the process. The only way to stop it however is to do something. Talk to someone troubled, feel for them, try to offer advise, and hope they don't go down that path.

/the only way for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

When you say that the children were not meant to die, you are implying that God doesn't have a plan. If it's entirely up to "good men" to recognize and oppose evil, where does God fit in?


"It's all part of God's plan". I love that statement. It's just like "It's God's will" and "God did it". No need to think critically, or even think at all. Just say one of these three quotes and all the questions throughout all the ages are answered. Remain ignorant and enjoy life.

/funny enough, God told us not to become smart, then cursed creation forever because we became smart. Makes you wonder why he put the one thing he didn't want us touching right where we could easily get to it
//"Free will", you say? If I choose anything that's not groveling to God 24/7/365, I'm going to be unspeakably tortured for eternity. That's not freedom
 
2012-12-24 08:07:45 PM

DaCaptain19: I am an atheist and personally I'd love to see any person who follows a "higher power" strung up by the neck until dead.

Religion has been the most destructive force since the beginning of mankind. F*ck the religious - I'd love to have a license to kill you all.

It's not genocide, it's godocide. So f*ck god, f*ck jesus, f*ck mary, f*ck allah and f*ck whatever other "gods" are out there.

You're all fools.


BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!!!

You're more religious than you think.
 
2012-12-24 08:43:23 PM

Wayne 985: phrawgh: Wayne 985: Prey4reign: Here's an ironic fact about Christmas -- the man considered the George Washington of Pakistan, Muhammed Ali Jinnah, was born on December 25th, 1876.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 200x300]

Coincidentally, I was just reading about this movie "Jinnah" last night. I haven't seen it, but it stars Christopher Lee and is supposed to be very good.

I was digging in my ass when it suddenly occurred to me that on December 25th, 1932 there was a magnitude 7.6 earthquake in Gansu, China which killed 275 people. Then I went back to digging in my ass.

Did you find anything?


Your moms car keys and half a roll of Certs.
 
2012-12-24 09:27:03 PM

Mambo Bananapatch: Quaker: Mambo Bananapatch: Gyrfalcon: Why exactly is it wrong to want "Peace on earth, good will to men"?

It's not....?Quaker: ParaHandy: You can't prove a negative, ever. There is an invisible monster under your bed that only I can see.

Guest: There is a Unicorn in your kitchen.

I completely agree that either of those things could be true. I'm betting that they aren't so that is what I would base any actual decisions I make on, but I would never go as far as to say I'm absolutely sure that you're wrong about that.

I can say, with absolute certainty, that there is not an invisible monster under anybody's bed that only they can see, or that there is a unicorn in anybody's kitchen.

If I'm proved wrong I shall, red-faced, admit it. But keeping an open mind doesn't mean you have to be stupid.

The fact that you acknowledge the possibility of being proven wrong, however remote, proves my point that you're not really absolutely certain.

It does nothing of the sort. Let me assure you in the most unambiguous language one can use in polite society: I am absolutely certain that there are no invisible monsters or unicorns. Absolutely, 100% certain. I am equally certain that no proof exists to the contrary. I DO NOT ADMIT THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING PROVEN WRONG. (Forgive the shouting; I wish only to emphasize the point.)

If, despite my certainty, such evidence were to turn up, and if it were irrefutable, I would acknowledge that I was wrong.


LOL, ok.
 
2012-12-24 09:31:35 PM

phrawgh: Wayne 985: phrawgh: Wayne 985: Prey4reign: Here's an ironic fact about Christmas -- the man considered the George Washington of Pakistan, Muhammed Ali Jinnah, was born on December 25th, 1876.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 200x300]

Coincidentally, I was just reading about this movie "Jinnah" last night. I haven't seen it, but it stars Christopher Lee and is supposed to be very good.

I was digging in my ass when it suddenly occurred to me that on December 25th, 1932 there was a magnitude 7.6 earthquake in Gansu, China which killed 275 people. Then I went back to digging in my ass.

Did you find anything?

Your moms car keys and half a roll of Certs.


Lemme know if you find my wrist watch.
 
2012-12-24 09:42:38 PM
When religion is outlawed, only outlaws will be religious.
 
2012-12-24 10:55:52 PM
Expanding on earlier remarks:

Indifference to Suffering
What does it mean when Christians speak of their God as omnipotent and omnipresent? Omnipotence implies a power of unimaginable magnitude. But what is power but the ability to act? If incapable of influencing objects in the world, how is God powerful? Of course the Christian God has the special ability to judge on the Day of Judgement (so He's got that going for Him), but that's conveniently unprovable.

But the God of the Old Testament clearly does act. He destroys Sodom and Gamorrah, turns Lot's Wife into a pillar of salt, etc. etc., which is problematical if you believe God currently no longer capable of action. Then again the God of the Old Testament doesn't seem particularly omnipresent either. He calls for Adam in the garden of Eden, and Adam is hiding from God. Adam explains to God that he hid because he was naked, at which point God rebukes and punishes him because at this point God has deduced that Adam must have eaten of the forbidden fruit. He seems pretty clueless for an omnipresent Being.

If you believe God is still capable of acting, then He seems brutally indifferent to the suffering of innocent children. It's easier for me to accept an indifferent Universe than an indifferent God.


Original Sin
I abandoned the religion of my community when I was 10 years old and learned about the concept of Original Sin. Let's see... I was born sinful and now I'm dependent on my Church for the eventual salvation of my soul (or else I'll spend eternity in a lake of fire)? No, thanks.

We are born innocent. I guess my question for Christians is: How can you not see that?


Finally: I feel I should apologize for singling out Christians and Christianity. It's the religions tradition I was raised in, and the only one I am familiar enough to talk about. I have no particular beef with you.

I wish you all happiness, health, and good fortune for the coming year. Have a very Merry Christmas.
 
2012-12-24 11:36:55 PM

Quaker: Mambo Bananapatch: Quaker: Mambo Bananapatch: Gyrfalcon: Why exactly is it wrong to want "Peace on earth, good will to men"?

It's not....?Quaker: ParaHandy: You can't prove a negative, ever. There is an invisible monster under your bed that only I can see.

Guest: There is a Unicorn in your kitchen.

I completely agree that either of those things could be true. I'm betting that they aren't so that is what I would base any actual decisions I make on, but I would never go as far as to say I'm absolutely sure that you're wrong about that.

I can say, with absolute certainty, that there is not an invisible monster under anybody's bed that only they can see, or that there is a unicorn in anybody's kitchen.

If I'm proved wrong I shall, red-faced, admit it. But keeping an open mind doesn't mean you have to be stupid.

The fact that you acknowledge the possibility of being proven wrong, however remote, proves my point that you're not really absolutely certain.

It does nothing of the sort. Let me assure you in the most unambiguous language one can use in polite society: I am absolutely certain that there are no invisible monsters or unicorns. Absolutely, 100% certain. I am equally certain that no proof exists to the contrary. I DO NOT ADMIT THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING PROVEN WRONG. (Forgive the shouting; I wish only to emphasize the point.)

If, despite my certainty, such evidence were to turn up, and if it were irrefutable, I would acknowledge that I was wrong.

LOL, ok.


Yeah, I noticed that too. The problem here is being able to express the fact that you have an open mind (i.e. you're not hide-bound by dogma, like a religious person) without being labeled "uncertain" or "agnostic," by the Christian semantics brigade. You see religious people need you to be rigid and dogmatic, so that they can appear to be less so, and so that they can then describe your Atheism as a religion.

Are you absolutely sure that God doesn't exist? "Yes." You're absolutely sure. "Yes." You can't admit of even the tiniest doubt? "No." Even if God came down to Earth and appeared to you, and performed a miracle in front of your eyes? "Well, that's different." Ah-HA!!! Then you have doubts!! Gotcha! You are AGNOSTIC!!!!! "No! I'm absolutely certain God doesn't exist!!!"

AH-HA!! Gotcha! Your absolute certainty clearly indicates the inflexibility of Atheist dogma!!!!

The resorting to rhetorical flim-flam seems to me clear evidence that one lacks a defensible, arguable position.
 
2012-12-24 11:45:18 PM

Uncle Tractor: The difference between the misery of an atheist and the happiness of a theist is that the atheist's misery is real.


I have never met a miserable atheist ... at least one that was miserable due to being an atheist.

The concept of "being miserable because you don't believe in magic" was created by religious people as one component of the massive strawman they keep adding to. You know, the one that says we are miserable, make claims that god is not real, have no morals, etc.

All complete fabrications but religion and truth have never spent much time together. Lying comes easy when you sell snake-oil for a living.
 
2012-12-24 11:54:32 PM

Farking Canuck: Uncle Tractor: The difference between the misery of an atheist and the happiness of a theist is that the atheist's misery is real.

I have never met a miserable atheist ... at least one that was miserable due to being an atheist.

The concept of "being miserable because you don't believe in magic" was created by religious people as one component of the massive strawman they keep adding to. You know, the one that says we are miserable, make claims that god is not real, have no morals, etc.

All complete fabrications but religion and truth have never spent much time together. Lying comes easy when you sell snake-oil for a living.


Oh ... I forgot one other fun component of their strawman: Apparently we atheists are afraid to criticize islam like we do christianity. Of course, when a rare islam thread comes up, I know I am happy to point out the idiotic components of islam. I also am happy to jump on their their oppressive policies against women. And I know I see many of my fellow atheists posting as well.

So either the christians are conveniently forgetting about our contributions to those threads or it is just more dishonesty from them.
 
2012-12-25 12:23:42 AM

ibsalamander: flim-flam


That's about right. They've irrationally set it up to denigrate whatever answer comes.
Doubt = Secret Ally [ie "You'll come to jesus eventually"]
Certainty = Belief...hypocrite

Twisting logic and language to extremes with those equivocations.
 
2012-12-25 07:52:10 AM

Farking Canuck: Of course, when a rare islam thread comes up, I know I am happy to point out the idiotic components of islam. I also am happy to jump on their their oppressive policies against women. And I know I see many of my fellow atheists posting as well.


From your desk. Waltz down to the Mosque and start demanding they dismantle whatever perceived monstrosity on the property that offends your delicate sensibilities. : ) As far as "government lands", they're gonna tuck us under a piece of it, one day. Lighten up Nancy. Folks be taking themselves way too seriously. And that's why people are sick of "Activist Atheists". You act like something astonishingly important happens every time you open your mouths. It doesn't.
 
2012-12-25 09:52:16 AM

bunner: From your desk. Waltz down to the Mosque and start demanding they dismantle whatever perceived monstrosity on the property that offends your delicate sensibilities. : )


Why? I don't waltz down to churches to mock christians? Why do you ask that I do something different for muslims??

Why do you feel that their vile oppression of women should only offend delicate sensibilities?? As an atheist I find it extremely offensive. You must get your morals from religion which tends to condone this type of shiat.

/you probably feel slavery was not worth getting your panties in a bunch either since the bible condones it
 
2012-12-25 10:09:12 AM

Farking Canuck: Why do you feel that their vile oppression of women should only offend delicate sensibilities?


transitionculture.org

Yup 'at there is what I said! Yup!


*sigh*

Farking Canuck: /you probably feel slavery was not worth getting your panties in a bunch either since the bible condones it


You probably have sex with gerbils. I just said so. See how that works?

Have a great "I don't really believe in this tripe, but the food is good" day.
 
2012-12-25 10:27:58 AM

Farking Canuck: I also am happy to jump on their their oppressive policies against women


bunner: offends your delicate sensibilities


bunner: Yup 'at there is what I said! Yup!


The only policy of theirs that I explicitly pointed out was their oppression of women. You then referred to my comment, see above quote, as something that "offends your delicate sensibilities". Now you deny that this is what you said and suggest I am building a strawman.

Like I said ... religious people and the truth have never been overly familiar with each other.
 
2012-12-25 10:43:53 AM

Farking Canuck: Farking Canuck: I also am happy to jump on their their oppressive policies against women

bunner: offends your delicate sensibilities

bunner: Yup 'at there is what I said! Yup!

The only policy of theirs that I explicitly pointed out was their oppression of women. You then referred to my comment, see above quote, as something that "offends your delicate sensibilities". Now you deny that this is what you said and suggest I am building a strawman.

Like I said ... religious people and the truth have never been overly familiar with each other.


No I didn't. Obviously. and you have no mission of enlightenment other than to attempt to piss from an ostensibly great height upon those you deem to be "unenlightened." I said that "whatever perceived monstrosity on the property that offends your delicate sensibilities." You know, like some shrine, or something. Obviously. Nickel for six misplaced opprobrium does not an intellectually acute person make. Obviously. Shouldn't you be eating turkey and chiding your hosts as to the folly of their hopelessly ignorant celebration while you stuff your face? : ) Or are you actually going to spend the whole day selling the piss under the tattered banner of "enlightenment", cause the only thing you're doing is handing out garage sale insults for the entertainment of a non-existent pack of fans you that are cheering you on in your over active imagination.
 
2012-12-25 10:46:07 AM
fans you think that are

I kinnae type fer toffee.

Merry Creased moose

Give a plate to a homeless person.
 
2012-12-25 11:06:23 AM

bunner: whatever perceived monstrosity on the property that offends your delicate sensibilities


You are correct ... you did talk about objects on their property. My apologies.

Of course, no atheists actually suggest that people cannot do what they want on private property ... so my brain must have filtered out your stupidity.

We only ask that, in the USA, you do not put your displays on public property because, when only one religion gets to advertise on public property, it amounts to the government endorsing that one religion. Which is against the American Constitution. Religious people only seem to respect the constitution when they like what it says.

We are all for you doing whatever you want on private property.

So why are you suggesting I go down to the private property of muslims and tell they what they can or cannot do with it??
 
2012-12-25 11:11:16 AM

Farking Canuck: so my brain must have filtered out your stupidity.


FAIL.

bunner:
Or are you actually going to spend the whole day selling the piss under the tattered banner of "enlightenment", cause the only thing you're doing is handing out garage sale insults for the entertainment of a non-existent pack of fans you think that are cheering you on in your over active imagination.

I'll take that as a yes.

But , trust me, your endless cheap behavior in the guise of discourse is TOTALLY CONVINCING ME to buy whatever you're selling

*snort*
 
2012-12-25 11:19:33 AM

bunner: Farking Canuck: so my brain must have filtered out your stupidity.

FAIL.

bunner: Or are you actually going to spend the whole day selling the piss under the tattered banner of "enlightenment", cause the only thing you're doing is handing out garage sale insults for the entertainment of a non-existent pack of fans you think that are cheering you on in your over active imagination.

I'll take that as a yes.

But , trust me, your endless cheap behavior in the guise of discourse is TOTALLY CONVINCING ME to buy whatever you're selling

*snort*


So you are refusing to explain why you would suggest I go down to a muslim's private property and tell them what they can do with it?? We can quote it again if you are unsure of which post I am referring to.

Shall we agree that it was just an incredibly stupid attempt to misrepresent atheists?? Lying for god get's you into heaven ... everyone knows that!!!

/If you must know ... I am going to pack up the car soon, pick up my mum, and head over to my sisters. There will be no magical incantations to zombie jesus ... just family and food.
//don't need magic to enjoy time off
 
2012-12-25 11:19:52 AM
I like Mississauga, btw. I did a few shows here, as well as arena tours through Montreal and Toronto and some gigs in Hamilton, or thereabouts, IIRC. Canadia is pretty. I miss Yonge St., too. Happy Absolutely Oppressive Bollocks Day™ I gotta go make food, now.
 
2012-12-25 11:23:36 AM

Farking Canuck: Shall we agree that it was just an incredibly stupid attempt to misrepresent atheists?? Lying for god get's you into heaven ... everyone knows that!!!


No. You're just trying desperately to equat