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(Oxford University)   From the 'research that would've been good before people voted on it' file, THC levels in marijuana do nothing to actually reduce pain. So put that in your pipe   (ox.ac.uk) divider line 217
    More: Interesting, THC, pain relief, medical imaging, marijuana  
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6095 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Dec 2012 at 9:07 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-23 10:51:48 AM

ParaHandy: maelstrom0370: doglover: Jake Havechek: Ibupofrin will stop or blunt most pain,

Well, somebody's never felt real pain in his life. You might be lucky and just have deadened nerves or high tolerance. Or, and I hope you're sitting, you just haven't felt pain yet. I really hope either way you die old and happy without ever feeling something ibuprofen couldn't help.

Broke my leg in two places a few years ago (tib/fib fracture). After getting a metal rod put in, I went through 3 different prescription pain meds (Vicodin, Demoral and Tylenol 3) trying to find something that actually worked. Even tried a little Oxy but that just made me not care that it hurt. Found that plain ol' Motrin (OTC dosage) did more for my pain than any of those.

Vicodin, demerol and Tylenol-3 are all basically the same thing - a large amount of paracetamol and a small amount of opiates. Motrin is a different NSAID (ibuprofen) and clearly that worked better for you than the paracetamol.

In the UK Tylenol-3 equivalents are OTC .... however, you can't bulk buy NSAIDs as they are lethal in large doses (kills hundreds of people a year). The US medical laws are about keeping people sober, not healthy. Fark Anslinger, god botherers and everyone else who jacks the system around with their false moralising.


Thanks for the info. Good to know should I need painkillers again. I don't like taking them if I don't have to (have friends who are closet prescription junkies) and prefer to use something OTC when possible.

/themoreyouknow.jpg
 
2012-12-23 10:51:49 AM

ParaHandy: In the UK Tylenol-3 equivalents are OTC .... however, you can't bulk buy NSAIDs as they are lethal in large doses (kills hundreds of people a year). The US medical laws are about keeping people sober, not healthy. Fark Anslinger, god botherers and everyone else who jacks the system around with their false moralising.


Yeah, but (correct me if I'm wrong) in the UK, your pharmacist can also prescribe drugs/compounds without you having to see a full-blown doctor first, too... much easier all around to get something for what ails you
 
2012-12-23 10:53:08 AM

ParaHandy: When was the last time a stoner killed 20-odd children with weed?


Um, wtf are you getting pissy at me for? I think weed should be legalized. I think you should be able to grow your own in your backyard.

/But since you asked - Driving while intoxicated kills more people than guns in the U.S.
 
2012-12-23 10:54:12 AM
Not sure if Subby is trolling or just stupid but either way he go fark himself for such a shiatty article/title...
 
2012-12-23 10:54:51 AM

ParaHandy: maelstrom0370: doglover: Jake Havechek: Ibupofrin will stop or blunt most pain,

Well, somebody's never felt real pain in his life. You might be lucky and just have deadened nerves or high tolerance. Or, and I hope you're sitting, you just haven't felt pain yet. I really hope either way you die old and happy without ever feeling something ibuprofen couldn't help.

Broke my leg in two places a few years ago (tib/fib fracture). After getting a metal rod put in, I went through 3 different prescription pain meds (Vicodin, Demoral and Tylenol 3) trying to find something that actually worked. Even tried a little Oxy but that just made me not care that it hurt. Found that plain ol' Motrin (OTC dosage) did more for my pain than any of those.

Vicodin, demerol and Tylenol-3 are all basically the same thing - a large amount of paracetamol and a small amount of opiates. Motrin is a different NSAID (ibuprofen) and clearly that worked better for you than the paracetamol.

In the UK Tylenol-3 equivalents are OTC .... however, you can't bulk buy NSAIDs as they are lethal in large doses (kills hundreds of people a year). The US medical laws are about keeping people sober, not healthy. Fark Anslinger, god botherers and everyone else who jacks the system around with their false moralising.


Not to mention even when they're not lethal, long term usage causes many, many problems. I still occasionally have to deal with the after-effects of being on a long term prescription of meloxicam. :/
 
2012-12-23 10:56:36 AM

Mouser: Fluid: The researchers found that an oral tablet of THC, the psychoactive ingredient in cannabis, tended to make the experience of pain more bearable, rather than actually reduce the intensity of the pain.

That DOESN'T count as pain relief?

That depends on your definition of "relief". It apparently doesn't stop the pain; it just makes you too stoned to notice it. You can get the same relief from a fifth of Jack Daniels.


So Would you then recommend alcohol over weed to treat pain? Let's ignore the legalities for a second, and look strictly at their individual merits.
 
2012-12-23 10:56:37 AM

Bathia_Mapes: Some of those who use medical marijuana don't use it for pain relief. They use it because it helps with things like the side effects of chemo, such as nausea.

For those with glaucoma marijuana decreases the pressure inside the eye. That may slow the progression of the disease, preventing blindness.

For some people it helps controls epileptic seizures.

It's been shown to relieve certain symptoms from multiple sclerosis


certain symptoms like neuropathic pain (crazy bad burning) and muscle spasticity.

Mostly though, I voted to legalize it because it's mind bogglingly retarded to spend billions of dollars a year on jailing people for smoking pot.
 
2012-12-23 10:56:48 AM

radiumsoup: ParaHandy: In the UK Tylenol-3 equivalents are OTC .... however, you can't bulk buy NSAIDs as they are lethal in large doses (kills hundreds of people a year). The US medical laws are about keeping people sober, not healthy. Fark Anslinger, god botherers and everyone else who jacks the system around with their false moralising.

Yeah, but (correct me if I'm wrong) in the UK, your pharmacist can also prescribe drugs/compounds without you having to see a full-blown doctor first, too... much easier all around to get something for what ails you


I think that could solve a lot of the problems in the US. I don't know how it is in other countries, but in the US, pharmacists tend to know infinitely more about the medicines being prescribed than the doctors do. It is frightening how bad a good deal of doctors are when it comes to not keeping up with things, and not understanding interactions (or not bothering to check their easy-to-use program that will show the interactions for them).

Given how many doctors now seem to dispense with the whole examination and just prescribe drugs immediately, would make a lot more sense to just send them to the pharmacist instead.
 
2012-12-23 10:57:50 AM

jjwars1: Mouser: Fluid: The researchers found that an oral tablet of THC, the psychoactive ingredient in cannabis, tended to make the experience of pain more bearable, rather than actually reduce the intensity of the pain.

That DOESN'T count as pain relief?

That depends on your definition of "relief". It apparently doesn't stop the pain; it just makes you too stoned to notice it. You can get the same relief from a fifth of Jack Daniels.

So Would you then recommend alcohol over weed to treat pain? Let's ignore the legalities for a second, and look strictly at their individual merits.


Only if you want to get really fat, have liver problems, and make incredibly poor decisions. :D
 
2012-12-23 10:58:12 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: This is old news from the last century

Voting for legalizing pot or medicinal pot never really was about the :"medicinal" aspect, nor was it ever about raising tax money.


Did you even READ that article?

I also like this part...

Susan Bro, an agency spokeswoman, said Thursday's statement resulted from a past combined review by federal drug enforcement, regulatory and research agencies that concluded "smoked marijuana has no currently accepted or proven medical use in the United States and is not an approved medical treatment."

So cops, bureaucratic fascists and quite likely big pharma researchers.

Cool story, (Suzie) Bro.
 
2012-12-23 10:59:07 AM
DNRTA
 
2012-12-23 11:00:22 AM

SockMonkeyHolocaust: Bathia_Mapes: It's been shown to relieve certain symptoms from multiple sclerosis

People claim the same thing about the Procarin patch and there's even a study.


Hi, as an MS patient, I feel better qualified to speak to this subject... ask whatever questions you have about the relationship between mj and MS...
 
2012-12-23 11:02:39 AM
Uh, subby. I live in WA. You'll notice we didn't care much about the pain killing part when we passed our legislation. We made it legal to consume because it's fun. Nothing more.
 
2012-12-23 11:04:46 AM
Neither do the levels in placebo yet it's affective some 30% of the time.
 
2012-12-23 11:05:02 AM
These people in "pain" are like so-called "rape" victims.
If it's legitimate pain, the body has ways of shutting down, similar to legitimate rape.
 
2012-12-23 11:05:15 AM
Subby you disgrace fark with you shiat articles please crawl back under the bridge troll
 
2012-12-23 11:06:18 AM

rohar: Uh, subby. I live in WA. You'll notice we didn't care much about the pain killing part when we passed our legislation. We made it legal to consume because it's fun. Nothing more.


I voted for 64 here in CO because I just don't care what people want to do to get high in their own home... I'd  rather them buy from a regulated dispensary than some armed guys in shady neighborhoods, and I think we'd do better to spend billions of dollars on having better schools, roads, and health facilities than on making more jail space for people who smoke up at home.
 
2012-12-23 11:11:57 AM
I think we can put down our pitchforks about the medical benefits of marijuana. We don't need that excuse anymore.

Now we're legalizing it because it's awesome.

/May 24th, 2004 was my last puff
//Will probably smoke again one day if I don't have to worry about legal issues or driving through shady neighborhoods to get it.
///Come on Illinois.
 
2012-12-23 11:14:14 AM
i stopped reading when it said they gave out an "oral tablet." there is more to marijuana than thc, a lot more. isolating one chemical and orally ingesting it is absolutely not equivalent to taking a single smoked hit.  you can make data agree with almost anything you want it to when you cherry pick everything about your "research."
 
2012-12-23 11:14:25 AM

radiumsoup: ParaHandy: In the UK Tylenol-3 equivalents are OTC .... however, you can't bulk buy NSAIDs as they are lethal in large doses (kills hundreds of people a year). The US medical laws are about keeping people sober, not healthy. Fark Anslinger, god botherers and everyone else who jacks the system around with their false moralising.

Yeah, but (correct me if I'm wrong) in the UK, your pharmacist can also prescribe drugs/compounds without you having to see a full-blown doctor first, too... much easier all around to get something for what ails you


I don't think so, but a lot of things that are prescription-only in the USA are OTC here, and so are recommended and dispensed by a pharmacist.
 
2012-12-23 11:20:50 AM
"The researchers found that an oral tablet of THC, the psychoactive ingredient in cannabis, tended to make the experience of pain more bearable, rather than actuajarhead_lly reduce the intensity of the pain"

Oh, dear gawd, why go to the trouble to make it into a pil?!?!?!?!?!? If you don't want to smoke, bake the leaf into a desert. That's the beauty of this plant, that and the rest of it makes good textiles and paper.

/don't even even smoke the stuff and this still pisses me off.
 
2012-12-23 11:25:43 AM

Jarhead_h: Oh, dear gawd, why go to the trouble to make it into a pil?!?!?!?!?!? If you don't want to smoke, bake the leaf into a desert. That's the beauty of this plant, that and the rest of it makes good textiles and paper.


I'm pretty sure they were trying to isolate one chemical to study. Studying the pain relief of a smorgasbord of 400 chemicals simultaneously may not exactly be informative.  It's how science works. No need to get pissed off.
 
2012-12-23 11:27:29 AM
He adds: 'Our small-scale study, in a controlled setting, involved 12 healthy men and only one of many compounds that can be derived from cannabis. That's quite different from doing a study with patients.

While I know  the  prohibitionists will use this study as Gods proof,, this one line explains why it cannot be applied to marijuana for medical use, It is like declaring Chemotherapy a failure since a single drug does not eradicate cancer
 
2012-12-23 11:30:14 AM

imasig: I think we can put down our pitchforks about the medical benefits of marijuana. We don't need that excuse anymore.

Now we're legalizing it because it's awesome.

/May 24th, 2004 was my last puff
//Will probably smoke again one day if I don't have to worry about legal issues or driving through shady neighborhoods to get it.
///Come on Illinois.


There are medical benefits, and theyve been vetted and researched thoroughly by the AMA AAN, and numberous other medical organizations (this study was funded by the DEA(. The thing is, just like with the anti-vaxxers, the anti-evolution people and the idiots in congress who don't believe in tectonic plates... the science is in... I'm tired of coddling the idioccy of people who simply don't believe in observable and reproducable results. We already knew that Marinol did not work the same as orally or inhaled marijuana, yet here's another study trying to conflate the two. I'm just farking tired of people railing about how their ignorance should carry the same weight as actual knowledge. We're getting dragged down legislatively and socially by morons who don't believe in math, it's time we stopped pretending that there are two sides to every story, that all of us are equal, and that everyone's "point" needs to be heard.
 
2012-12-23 11:30:51 AM
I wonder how much of the "medical benefits" of smoking pot for some is really simply the placebo effect. You have enough people telling you that pot does such and such things to help relieve you of such and such symptoms, perhaps for some, the body acts accordingly even though there isn't any actual benefit from the pot.
 
2012-12-23 11:31:26 AM

The Irresponsible Captain: EVERYBODY PANIC: For pain relief, I used food grade diatomaceous earht back in early June, 2012. Awesome results. In five days, all my chronic aches went away and I to this day remain pain free.
[imageshack.us image 640x480]

I put that stuff around the house to kill bugs because it doesn't hurt pets. I'm a bit skeptical on health claims.


It's food grade. It's in some food products you buy. It also kills fleas and is non-chemical; completely natural.
 
2012-12-23 11:31:35 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: This is old news from the last century

Voting for legalizing pot or medicinal pot never really was about the :"medicinal" aspect, nor was it ever about raising tax money.


Nor was making it illegal in the first place about it being dangerous or a gateway drug. What's your point?
 
2012-12-23 11:32:59 AM
braveraconteuse.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-23 11:33:05 AM

Jake Havechek: Ibupofrin will stop or blunt most pain, vicodin and the like just turns you into a socially acceptable drug addict.


Yeah, tell that to my impacted wisdom tooth there, Seymore.
 
2012-12-23 11:33:36 AM

Bathia_Mapes: Some of those who use medical marijuana don't use it for pain relief. They use it because it helps with things like the side effects of chemo, such as nausea.

For those with glaucoma marijuana decreases the pressure inside the eye. That may slow the progression of the disease, preventing blindness.

For some people it helps controls epileptic seizures.

It's been shown to relieve certain symptoms from multiple sclerosis


I'm glad that this was done so early in the thread. Close it up.

My grandmother had crippling arthritis in her last years. My cousin would bring her weed so she could put it in rubbing alcohol, and then rub it on her hands as a topical solution. It worked.
 
2012-12-23 11:34:18 AM
The great thing about paying for a study is that you get to tell them what the results will be in advance.
 
2012-12-23 11:38:30 AM

Azlefty: He adds: 'Our small-scale study, in a controlled setting, involved 12 healthy men and only one of many compounds that can be derived from cannabis. That's quite different from doing a study with patients.

While I know  the  prohibitionists will use this study as Gods proof,, this one line explains why it cannot be applied to marijuana for medical use, It is like declaring Chemotherapy a failure since a single drug does not eradicate cancer


The entire purpose of the article is to allow the hard of thinking adults with imaginary friends to have something to outrage at and go "see!"

It's kinda like the NRA saying most gun uses in the USA are defensive ... possibly, but only because of offensive ones in the first place. The USA has 40x the gun death rate of developed countries, and more guns won't help.
 
2012-12-23 11:38:31 AM

takangar74: Subby you disgrace fark with you shiat articles please crawl back under the bridge troll


Lol y u mad tho?
 
2012-12-23 11:39:19 AM
Oh motherfarking Ham Sandwich!

It's another article in which A) The subby didn't read/understand it, and B) a gaggle of non-scientists are punting around their opinions.

Holy fark. It's like a teetotaler reviewing the top 10 beers of 2012.
 
2012-12-23 11:39:30 AM

Fluid: "The researchers found that an oral tablet of THC, the psychoactive ingredient in cannabis, tended to make the experience of pain more bearable, rather than actually reduce the intensity of the pain."

That DOESN'T count as pain relief?


JHGDMFC... so not only does TFA ignore many of the benefits of cannabis, they actually refute their own central point?

MillionFacepalmMarch.jpg

/DNRTFA
 
2012-12-23 11:40:34 AM

TiiiMMMaHHH: [www.reefermadnessteachingmuseum.org image 413x607]


Have you learned nothing from history!?!


I'm not sure what to say about this. I'm going to talk to the family.
 
2012-12-23 11:40:46 AM
img.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-23 11:41:19 AM

mekki: I wonder how much of the "medical benefits" of smoking pot for some is really simply the placebo effect. You have enough people telling you that pot does such and such things to help relieve you of such and such symptoms, perhaps for some, the body acts accordingly even though there isn't any actual benefit from the pot.


We know enough about chemistry to know how pain receptors actually work. We know so damn much that pharmaceutical companies are making obscene profits on simple opioid drugs, especially from addicts and the black market. There is no voodoo mystery magic here. Pot is vilified because you can't just put some poppy plants in your backyard and make a batch of heroin. Weed is easy to grow. People who make their living by selling opioids have put themselves in a position where they can't fail unless we completely legalize cannabis.
 
2012-12-23 11:41:23 AM

insano: Macular Degenerate: Before a scan, participants were given either a 15mg tablet of THC or a placebo. THC, or delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol, is the active psychotropic compound in cannabis - the ingredient that's responsible for the high that drives recreational use of the drug.

"Hey, let's run a study with neurocannabinoids and act surprised when they don't work like Tylenol!"

What these "scientists" might look like:

[www.x929.ca image 600x450]

"The researchers found that an oral tablet of THC, the psychoactive ingredient in cannabis, tended to make the experience of pain more bearable, rather than actually reduce the intensity of the pain"

Look, I can quote directly from the article too, except that my quote summarizes the main point of the article. See how that's done? You, on the other hand, wildly misinterpret the article and research and obviously have a ridiculous notion of what average pot users look like. You sound old... or high. Are you high?


And you sound young. And mildly immature. And bitter. Have another toke, and lighten up Francis

firedaily.com
 
2012-12-23 11:49:22 AM

EbolaNYC: As someone who has used it in a couple cases where I had a painful injury and couldn't get to the doctor for a day or two for something stronger than aleve, I call bullshiat.


That doesn't contradict the study. They are saying the pain is still there, you just don't feel it as much. From a medical perspective, it doesn't reduce the pain. From a users perspective it does. From what I understand, the signals are all being sent and received in the brain to tell you to feel pain, but other parts of your brain just go "who cares" and ignore it.

Of course, as with all drugs, your mileage may vary as the exact impact of drugs are not constant though all people.
 
2012-12-23 11:51:10 AM

Alonjar: Cannabinoids most definitely have analgesic properties...


In which case I am sure you can give us some peer-reviewed research from an institution as reputable as Oxford to back up the claim.
 
2012-12-23 11:54:18 AM

Mouser: That depends on your definition of "relief". It apparently doesn't stop the pain; it just makes you too stoned to notice it. You can get the same relief from a fifth of Jack Daniels.


That is also how nitrous oxide (laughing gas) works. It doesn't reduce the sensations you feel, but you stop caring about them. Still pain relief.
 
2012-12-23 11:54:55 AM
This study has several limitations that make it largely irrelevant to the medical marijuana debate: small sample size, testing only one of many active ingredients, including healthy subjects rather than subjects likely to be prescribed marijuana where allowed, etc.  Even then, it does suggest that there may be some medicinal benefit to THC (pain management is often just that - management - not evisceration), which is contrary to marijuana's schedule 1 classification.  In the authors' defense, however, this study was not designed to provide anything approaching a definitive answer, which anyone with more than a preschooler's capacity for reading comprehension would readily discern from the article.

tl;dr summary - if you would base your vote on this study, you're an imbecile
 
2012-12-23 12:01:41 PM

matovichj: M11618: This isn't new. A lot/most perscription of pain killers are less effective than aspirin and Tylenol at actually reducing pain, they just get you stoned. Getting stoned is more fun than getting rid of pain. You may as well take a bunch of shots as take a Vicodin.

Heh, taking shots is actually better for my constant sciatica than vicodin. I know it's going to destroy my liver, but ironically, so will the vicodin.


Screw sciatica. Mine is not constant (thankfully, and I'm truly sorry for you) but when my L5S1 gets out of whack it is just short of gun in mouth unbearable.

Regarding the thread, all of you saying pot doesn't diminish pain but does make it more bearable are correct, at least in my case you are. But "more bearable" is precisely the point. As a notable side benefit, and I say this as a person who didn't smoke until my 30's and believed in the party line about evil weed, pot is truly good for the human mind. Certainly it can be overdone as can anything else, but used in appropriate moderation I am of the firm belief that it allows keener insight and understanding into the entirety of existence.

YMMV. Don't be an embarrassing incoherent stoner. No one likes that. Especially other smokers who get painted with the broad brush of your sad indulgent idiocy.
 
2012-12-23 12:03:52 PM

radiumsoup: Yeah, but (correct me if I'm wrong) in the UK, your pharmacist can also prescribe drugs/compounds without you having to see a full-blown doctor first, too... much easier all around to get something for what ails you


Not quite. There are three categories of drugs here: over-the counter, pharmacist-only and prescription-only (there is actually small fourth, "controlled drugs" like heroin, MDMA and LSD which can be obtained for medical or research use but under even more stringent conditions.

Over the counter drugs can be bought by anyone, any time, with a few minor restrictions. There is a limit on the amount of paracetamol you can buy in one transaction, for example.

Pharmacist-only drugs can be bought without prescription, but only from or with permission from a qualified pharmacist.

Prescription-only drugs need a prescription (duh!) from someone trained and qualified to prescribe. As well as doctors, this includes dentists, some nurses and some pharmacists. I have never met a prescribing pharmacist, though, so either my experience is limited or there aren't many around yet. They only got prescribing powers three years ago, I think, and since they have to take training courses it will take a while for their numbers to be significant.
 
2012-12-23 12:06:05 PM

Jarhead_h: Oh, dear gawd, why go to the trouble to make it into a pil?!?!?!?!?!? If you don't want to smoke, bake the leaf into a desert.


Because they are doing scientific research into the effects of one chemical, not developing recipes.
 
2012-12-23 12:10:06 PM

dywed88: That doesn't contradict the study. They are saying the pain is still there, you just don't feel it as much. From a medical perspective, it doesn't reduce the pain. From a users perspective it does. From what I understand, the signals are all being sent and received in the brain to tell you to feel pain, but other parts of your brain just go "who cares" and ignore it.


Which can be a very good thing. For example, people with Parkinson's take L-Dopa to improve the connections between the nerves and the brain. Opiates reduce the effectiveness of connections between nerves and the brain, so if you give morphine to someone on L-Dopa they are liable to go back into full-blown Parkinson's, which is Not Nice. Since people with Parkinson's tend to be old, have brittle bones, fall over and break hips a lot, this is a real problem. Anything which can relieve pain without messing up the L-Dopa is a good thing.
 
2012-12-23 12:10:41 PM

ThrobblefootSpectre: ParaHandy: When was the last time a stoner killed 20-odd children with weed?

Um, wtf are you getting pissy at me for? I think weed should be legalized. I think you should be able to grow your own in your backyard.

/But since you asked - Driving while intoxicated kills more people than guns in the U.S.


A recent report suggests that gun deaths will eclipse auto fatalities of all types by 2015. I think gun deaths already easily eclipse dui deaths.
 
2012-12-23 12:11:17 PM

WhoaNelly: This study has several limitations that make it largely irrelevant to the medical marijuana debat


I suspect that it's as much a piece of research on brain imaging as on cannabis or pain relief.
 
2012-12-23 12:18:29 PM
Alcohol doesn't cure cancer. Guess we should have figured that out before we repealed Prohibition I. Was that about the bass of your logic, Subby?
 
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