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(CNN)   What Obama can learn from Lincoln, beyond vampire hunting techniques   (cnn.com) divider line 64
    More: Interesting, President Obama, school violence, human beings, Team of Rivals, Tony Kushner, Goes to Washington, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Miami Herald  
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1250 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Dec 2012 at 1:37 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-22 11:09:51 AM
Subjecting the states to the will of an overreaching centralized federal government?


/i keed i keed
 
2012-12-22 11:29:05 AM
How to effectively split rails? That would help dealing with Congress.
 
2012-12-22 11:55:53 AM
Avoid theaters?
 
2012-12-22 12:38:11 PM
That was a terrible article.
 
2012-12-22 01:03:27 PM
How to not be blahh...?
 
2012-12-22 01:41:12 PM
How to be a raging racist and still somehow remembered as the angelic savior of black people?
 
2012-12-22 01:44:51 PM
How to be used as an example of an inclusive party while ignoring the actual people be helped?
 
2012-12-22 01:45:25 PM
A short speech can still be a good speech.
 
2012-12-22 01:48:33 PM
Turn loose the Sherman?
 
2012-12-22 01:49:49 PM
I think he should grow out a Lincoln beard. It would be quite the sight to see. It's the second term farkit right?
 
2012-12-22 01:50:27 PM
That the South sucks.
 
2012-12-22 01:53:44 PM
Lincoln did things that if any modern president did they would be universally decried as a dictator and a monster by the left, right and center. They might have been perfectly acceptable then or even required but in the modern era almost nobody would accept them.

Do not compare the modern world to the mid 1800s... Things have changed.
 
2012-12-22 01:58:58 PM

Hueg_Redd: I think he should grow out a Lincoln beard. It would be quite the sight to see. It's the second term farkit right?


should wear the hat too!
 
2012-12-22 02:10:14 PM

Hueg_Redd: I think he should grow out a Lincoln beard. It would be quite the sight to see. It's the second term farkit right?


How about grow in a goatee and shave his head. That's how you become a popular leader.
 
2012-12-22 02:13:08 PM

NeoCortex42: How about grow in a goatee and shave his head. That's how you become a popular leader.


And a pencil-thin mustache, so he can twirl it.
 
2012-12-22 02:16:17 PM

Jarhead_h: How to be a raging racist and still somehow remembered as the angelic savior of black people?


You sound neoconfederate.
 
2012-12-22 02:21:56 PM

Jarhead_h: How to be a raging racist and still somehow remembered as the angelic savior of black people?


The fark is wrong with you?

Mommy and daddy not give you enough hugs?
 
2012-12-22 02:26:25 PM

Jarhead_h: How to be a raging racist and still somehow remembered as the angelic savior of black people?


That was incredibly dumb.
 
2012-12-22 02:30:48 PM
Which gay bar to go to?
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTN6Du3MCgI

/NSFW
/kidding
 
2012-12-22 02:40:53 PM
The South needs to be invaded?
 
2012-12-22 03:10:00 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Subjecting the states to the will of an overreaching centralized federal government?


/i keed i keed


Yeah, I feel bad for those poor states that were so persecuted by the policies put in place before Lincoln was even inaugurated that they had to leave the Union.

/Actually, if you read the secession documents, the failure of the centralized federal government to subject free states to its will was one of the big concerns of the Confederate states (at least in regard to the Fugitive Slave Law).
 
2012-12-22 03:29:03 PM

DamnYankees: That was a terrible article.


It was a terrible book too.
 
2012-12-22 03:36:09 PM

randomjsa: Lincoln did things that if any modern president did they would be universally decried as a dictator and a monster by the left, right and center. They might have been perfectly acceptable then or even required but in the modern era almost nobody would accept them.

Do not compare the modern world to the mid 1800s... Things have changed.


Many on the far right consider him a dictator. They just trot him out as decoy whenever they get accused of saying something racy.

/What's wrong with being racy?
 
2012-12-22 03:38:02 PM

Jarhead_h: How to be a raging racist and still somehow remembered as the angelic savior of black people?


Let's see how Frederick Douglass, well-known racism apologist, eulogized Lincoln.
 
2012-12-22 04:00:08 PM
The thing we have to remember about Lincoln is that apparently no one could get an accurate picture of his face.

"...before a face that moved through a thousand delicate gradations of line and contour, light and shade, sparkle of the eye and curve of the lip in the long gamut of expression from grave to gay, and back again from the rollicking jollity of laughter to that far-away look..."

"Though hundreds of portraits have been made, by painters and photographers, I have never seen one yet that in my opinion deserved to be called a perfectly good likeness: nor do I believe there is really such a one in existence."
 
2012-12-22 04:59:17 PM

TheOther: Turn loose the Sherman?


That actually made me laugh out load. Thank you
 
2012-12-22 05:03:22 PM

the_vegetarian_cannibal: Jarhead_h: How to be a raging racist and still somehow remembered as the angelic savior of black people?

You sound neoconfederate.


Jake Havechek: Jarhead_h: How to be a raging racist and still somehow remembered as the angelic savior of black people?

The fark is wrong with you?

Mommy and daddy not give you enough hugs?


Coco LaFemme: Jarhead_h: How to be a raging racist and still somehow remembered as the angelic savior of black people?

That was incredibly dumb.


You people need to read some books.
 
2012-12-22 05:09:15 PM

Dokushin: the_vegetarian_cannibal: Jarhead_h: How to be a raging racist and still somehow remembered as the angelic savior of black people?

You sound neoconfederate.

Jake Havechek: Jarhead_h: How to be a raging racist and still somehow remembered as the angelic savior of black people?

The fark is wrong with you?

Mommy and daddy not give you enough hugs?

Coco LaFemme: Jarhead_h: How to be a raging racist and still somehow remembered as the angelic savior of black people?

That was incredibly dumb.

You people need to read some books.


Oh really? And what "books" would that be, mister?

Difficulty: no Thomas DiLorenzo
 
2012-12-22 05:09:57 PM

Pauly Math: Which gay bar to go to?
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTN6Du3MCgI

/NSFW
/kidding


I was going to make a cockfighting joke but that was much funnier. Cracked pepper is a new one on me.
 
2012-12-22 05:20:33 PM

randomjsa: Lincoln did things that if any modern president did they would be universally decried as a dictator and a monster by the left, right and center. They might have been perfectly acceptable then or even required but in the modern era almost nobody would accept them.

Do not compare the modern world to the mid 1800s... Things have changed.


Clearly they were not 'perfectly acceptable' then. It wasn't like Booth woke one day and said 'Eh...I feel like shooting a President.'
 
2012-12-22 05:27:40 PM

The Lone Gunman: Clearly they were not 'perfectly acceptable' then. It wasn't like Booth woke one day and said 'Eh...I feel like shooting a President.'


Not really connected, Booth and the things I was talking about. Booth would have done that even if Lincoln had conducted the whole thing in a perfectly stand up way.
 
2012-12-22 05:30:15 PM
I heard Lincoln was rather tall. Does anyone know if he was in sport?
 
2012-12-22 05:32:55 PM

the_vegetarian_cannibal: Oh really? And what "books" would that be, mister?

Difficulty: no Thomas DiLorenzo


How's a public speech?

"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races-that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this, that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

-- Abraham Lincoln, 1858
 
2012-12-22 05:46:14 PM

Dokushin: the_vegetarian_cannibal: Oh really? And what "books" would that be, mister?

Difficulty: no Thomas DiLorenzo

How's a public speech?

"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races-that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this, that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

-- Abraham Lincoln, 1858


That's not raging racism, that's regular run-of-the-mill racism.
 
2012-12-22 05:46:23 PM
ireporters.files.wordpress.com

Obama = giant quivering vagina.

Obama is so easy to take advantage of.

He's such a terrible negotiator, if went to buy a car from him off of craigslist, you'd walk away not only spending about half of what he first told you he'd sell it to youfor, but you also walk away with his watch and a night with his wife.
 
2012-12-22 05:55:47 PM

Dokushin: the_vegetarian_cannibal: Jarhead_h: How to be a raging racist and still somehow remembered as the angelic savior of black people?

You sound neoconfederate.

Jake Havechek: Jarhead_h: How to be a raging racist and still somehow remembered as the angelic savior of black people?

The fark is wrong with you?

Mommy and daddy not give you enough hugs?

Coco LaFemme: Jarhead_h: How to be a raging racist and still somehow remembered as the angelic savior of black people?

That was incredibly dumb.

You people need to read some books.


Or some speeches:

The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the "storm came and the wind blew."

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science. It has been so even amongst us. Many who hear me, perhaps, can recollect well, that this truth was not generally admitted, even within their day. The errors of the past generation still clung to many as late as twenty years ago. Those at the North, who still cling to these errors, with a zeal above knowledge, we justly denominate fanatics. All fanaticism springs from an aberration of the mind from a defect in reasoning. It is a species of insanity. One of the most striking characteristics of insanity, in many instances, is forming correct conclusions from fancied or erroneous premises; so with the anti-slavery fanatics. Their conclusions are right if their premises were. They assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just but their premise being wrong, their whole argument fails. I recollect once of having heard a gentleman from one of the northern States, of great power and ability, announce in the House of Representatives, with imposing effect, that we of the South would be compelled, ultimately, to yield upon this subject of slavery, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics, as it was in physics or mechanics. That the principle would ultimately prevail. That we, in maintaining slavery as it exists with us, were warring against a principle, a principle founded in nature, the principle of the equality of men. The reply I made to him was, that upon his own grounds, we should, ultimately, succeed, and that he and his associates, in this crusade against our institutions, would ultimately fail. The truth announced, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics as it was in physics and mechanics, I admitted; but told him that it was he, and those acting with him, who were warring against a principle. They were attempting to make things equal which the Creator had made unequal.

/Oh wait, that wasn't Lincoln.
//Maybe if we look back far enough in time, we can find some evidence of Lincoln arguing for slavery or something . . .

Link

///Or not.
 
2012-12-22 05:58:13 PM
How to keep homosexual affairs private?
 
2012-12-22 06:17:25 PM

Dokushin: the_vegetarian_cannibal: Oh really? And what "books" would that be, mister?

Difficulty: no Thomas DiLorenzo

How's a public speech?

"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races-that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this, that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

-- Abraham Lincoln, 1858


Is that from the Lincoln/Douglas debates? You do realize that Lincoln was on the anti-slavery side in those debates, right?

Maybe you should go back and read some quotes from the pro-slavery side, and see how Lincoln's views compare.
 
2012-12-22 06:45:44 PM

HighOnCraic: Is that from the Lincoln/Douglas debates? You do realize that Lincoln was on the anti-slavery side in those debates, right?

Maybe you should go back and read some quotes from the pro-slavery side, and see how Lincoln's views compare.


So you contend that the views expressed in that quote are not racist? That, insofar as someone does not support slavery, it is acceptable for someone to hold those views, and in keeping with principles of equality? Or is it just that racism is okay as long as there is someone "more racist"?
 
2012-12-22 06:52:48 PM

Dokushin: You people need to read some books.


Lincoln was a complex person living in a very volatile time. It is not possible to really appreciate him in isolated rhetorical snapshots. His views on many things, including slavery, evolved quite a bit over time. Moreover, its important to remember that the the vast majority of abolitionists were also inveterate racists by contemporary standards, preferring to attack slavery as promoting unfair production economics rather than any deep philosophical commitment about humanity.
 
2012-12-22 06:57:06 PM

Somacandra: Dokushin: You people need to read some books.

Lincoln was a complex person living in a very volatile time. It is not possible to really appreciate him in isolated rhetorical snapshots. His views on many things, including slavery, evolved quite a bit over time. Moreover, its important to remember that the the vast majority of abolitionists were also inveterate racists by contemporary standards, preferring to attack slavery as promoting unfair production economics rather than any deep philosophical commitment about humanity.


Somacandra: Dokushin: You people need to read some books.

Lincoln was a complex person living in a very volatile time. It is not possible to really appreciate him in isolated rhetorical snapshots. His views on many things, including slavery, evolved quite a bit over time. Moreover, its important to remember that the the vast majority of abolitionists were also inveterate racists by contemporary standards, preferring to attack slavery as promoting unfair production economics rather than any deep philosophical commitment about humanity.



He went from being a white supremacist who was indifferent to slavery to being a white supremacist who was against it. Either way he was always a white supremacist.
 
2012-12-22 07:04:27 PM

1derful: Somacandra: Dokushin: You people need to read some books.

Lincoln was a complex person living in a very volatile time. It is not possible to really appreciate him in isolated rhetorical snapshots. His views on many things, including slavery, evolved quite a bit over time. Moreover, its important to remember that the the vast majority of abolitionists were also inveterate racists by contemporary standards, preferring to attack slavery as promoting unfair production economics rather than any deep philosophical commitment about humanity.

Somacandra: Dokushin: You people need to read some books.

Lincoln was a complex person living in a very volatile time. It is not possible to really appreciate him in isolated rhetorical snapshots. His views on many things, including slavery, evolved quite a bit over time. Moreover, its important to remember that the the vast majority of abolitionists were also inveterate racists by contemporary standards, preferring to attack slavery as promoting unfair production economics rather than any deep philosophical commitment about humanity.


He went from being a white supremacist who was indifferent to slavery to being a white supremacist who was against it. Either way he was always a white supremacist.


Looking at the past with modern values is going to make you really hate most people from the past.
 
2012-12-22 07:06:05 PM
static.thepeoplescube.com
 
2012-12-22 07:09:32 PM
Somehow I imagine Obama fighting ninjas rather than vampires.
 
2012-12-22 07:17:55 PM

randomjsa: Lincoln did things that if any modern president did they would be universally decried as a dictator and a monster by the left, right and center. They might have been perfectly acceptable then or even required but in the modern era almost nobody would accept them.

Do not compare the modern world to the mid 1800s... Things have changed.


Yep. Except the second amendment...right?
 
2012-12-22 07:30:15 PM

Dokushin: HighOnCraic: Is that from the Lincoln/Douglas debates? You do realize that Lincoln was on the anti-slavery side in those debates, right?

Maybe you should go back and read some quotes from the pro-slavery side, and see how Lincoln's views compare.

So you contend that the views expressed in that quote are not racist? That, insofar as someone does not support slavery, it is acceptable for someone to hold those views, and in keeping with principles of equality? Or is it just that racism is okay as long as there is someone "more racist"?


Meh, I'd say it was acceptable for the time and under the circumstances, seeing as how his opponent in the debate was trying to portray him as a radical abolitionist, while Lincoln was more in favor of letting slavery die slowly by letting in enough free states without corresponding slave states, and thus being gaining enough votes to support abolition in the Senate.

So, yeah, he was WAY less racist than his opponents, thus, I tend to give him a pass on the racist things he said. His opponents certainly didn't think he was racist enough, hence the whole seceding before he was even inaugurated part. But feel free to look back on that period and consider Lincoln to be the bad guy, and ignore everything else. It's a free country!
 
2012-12-22 07:57:17 PM
Lincoln's views on black people were in line with everyone else's views on black people.  Were they morally correct?  Not by today's standards no, but we're not talking about 2012.  We're talking about 1860.  Lincoln had some tough choices to make; he wanted to preserve the Union, and as he said, if he could do that without freeing a single slave, he would have done it.  However it became apparent to him that in order to win the war, he had to end slavery.  That's why he pushed so hard for the 13th amendment to be ratified, so that when the war ended, the millions of blacks freed by the Emancipation Proclamation would not be put back in bondage.  Also, he wanted it done before the new Congress met after the inauguration, as the Republicans would no longer be in the majority.

He was not though, a "raging racist."  His views were racist if you compare them to what is acceptable opinion to have now.  They were not if you compare them to what were acceptable views to have in his lifetime.
 
2012-12-22 08:01:04 PM
Send federal troops to hunt down secessionists?
 
2012-12-22 08:12:35 PM
Without a doubt, he was history's greatest monster.
 
2012-12-22 08:17:16 PM

HighOnCraic: Dokushin: the_vegetarian_cannibal: Oh really? And what "books" would that be, mister?

Difficulty: no Thomas DiLorenzo

How's a public speech?

"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races-that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this, that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

-- Abraham Lincoln, 1858

Is that from the Lincoln/Douglas debates? You do realize that Lincoln was on the anti-slavery side in those debates, right?

Maybe you should go back and read some quotes from the pro-slavery side, and see how Lincoln's views compare.


Anti-slavery, but still pro-eugenics inferior race stance, though it was the common thought among many at the time, and who knows if he said those things to appear more centrist than he was at heart. I think we'd all like to think he was as good a man as the myth, but we also shouldn't strip him of all his accomplishments for that one quote.
 
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