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(KATU)   When Darth Vader tells you to step back, he means it. Woman gets $260 fine for getting a mouthful of pepper spray during Occupy protest. With throat-on-fire inducing picture   (katu.com) divider line 251
    More: Dumbass, Occupy protests, pepper sprays  
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21170 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Dec 2012 at 10:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-22 11:35:36 PM

Abox: Esn: Abox: Amos Quito: [media.katu.com image 660x454]

And they call the ones on the left "occupiers".


I think they call themselves that.  The rest of us call them bums.

They're democracy protesters, like the ones Fark was supporting in Iran and Egypt. Except they were weaker (so weak they couldn't even allow themselves to use weapons), and the regime was stronger.

When you understand why you hate Occupy, you will understand why you would also not support protests in other regimes. They're all dirty, chaotic, unreasonable, and law-breaking.  They're all done by people who seem to have nothing better to do all day, "so why don't they get a job?"

It's not exactly coincidence that Occupy happened soon after the Arab Spring.  The kids at home saw the parallels, saw the crooks who run the country siphoning money into their personal bank accounts and not being held to account, and tried to see if they could do what those others did. But they couldn't, not even close.


Any kid in this country that thinks their situation compares to living under an actual dictator needs a punch in the nads.


When you speak in absolutes like "any kid" it makes it REALLY easy to disprove. I've worked with kids in Appalachia that would like to have a word with you. Also, I'm guessing you didn't hear about the child just recently murdered for not reading the their Bible... See when you take extreme examples it makes it really easy to disprove a universal claim like "any kid in this country..."
 
2012-12-22 11:38:00 PM

Man On Pink Corner: Esn: You're the one who doesn't see the reality. There are 400 people in the US who are richer than the bottom half of the country (150 million people) combined, who don't go to jail no matter what crimes they commit because the politicians can't get elected without their money, who get bailed out if they run into financial problems while the millions of people with foreclosed homes get nothing, but you think the problem is that some young people are mad about it.

And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?


It doesn't
 
2012-12-22 11:39:22 PM

Hiro-ACiD: [i.imgur.com image 640x499]

/it pays to recycle


Thank you for reminding me that Half-Life 3 will come out in, well, never.

/Loved farking with that cop and throwing the can at him (then running like hell)
 
2012-12-22 11:47:49 PM

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Man On Pink Corner: Esn: You're the one who doesn't see the reality. There are 400 people in the US who are richer than the bottom half of the country (150 million people) combined, who don't go to jail no matter what crimes they commit because the politicians can't get elected without their money, who get bailed out if they run into financial problems while the millions of people with foreclosed homes get nothing, but you think the problem is that some young people are mad about it.

And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?

It doesn't


It makes people sit up and take notice of a problem that they are too blissfully ignorant to view. Most people are content to let the world burn around them let the lives of millions of people be ruined as long as they get theirs. When "theirs" is threatened or when you directly involve them, they might be more likely to participate or at least passively endorse legislative change if for no other reason than it makes their lives easier, if not for the larger moral reason that they are now aware of the problem and how dire it is.

There are a lot of psychological experiments that show that if you individually involve someone in a moral choice they will often make the correct one, but as long as they are an anonymous third party they will let a child die a foot away from them without doing anything about it, or even caring.
 
2012-12-22 11:51:07 PM

Man On Pink Corner: And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?


By making you give them money, so when they get enough they will magically be more powerful than the evil 1% and be able to break all the laws they want. But they'll do it FOR !!JUSTICE!! so it will be okay.

/too bad money doesn't equal power in the real world
//power is what brings money, it really doesn't work the other way around
///that's why dumping a million dollars in lottery winnings on a homeless bum only enriches the con artists who bleed him dry
 
2012-12-22 11:52:07 PM

Mr. Carpenter: It makes people sit up and take notice of a problem that they are too blissfully ignorant to view. Most people are content to let the world burn around them let the lives of millions of people be ruined as long as they get theirs. When "theirs" is threatened or when you directly involve them, they might be more likely to participate or at least passively endorse legislative change if for no other reason than it makes their lives easier, if not for the larger moral reason that they are now aware of the problem and how dire it is.


Yeeaaahhhh... no.
 
2012-12-22 11:52:17 PM
Man On Pink Corner
And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?

Not that I agree with the tactic, but there are generally two reasons given: Apparently nothing else will force you to confront the situation, and your going to work enriches the corporate masters.
 
2012-12-23 12:11:16 AM

Maybe you should drive: fredklein: Then they get arrested for assaulting an officer. Duh.

And the arrest is made how?


Not by spraying a cloud of pepper spray into their faces, I can tell you that.
 
2012-12-23 12:14:22 AM

Tatterdemalian: Man On Pink Corner: And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?

By making you give them money, so when they get enough they will magically be more powerful than the evil 1% and be able to break all the laws they want. But they'll do it FOR !!JUSTICE!! so it will be okay.



I always wondered- if the 99% was really 'the 99%', then wouldn't they control the elections? I mean, it doesn't matter how rich/greedy/evil a politician is, if 99% of the voters vote against him, he's out of office. Then the 99%'ers could vote in one of their own, a loyal, trustworthy person.

/unless 'the 99%' isn't really 99%....
//or there are no loyal, trustworthy people amongst them....
 
2012-12-23 12:17:46 AM

RanDomino: Man On Pink Corner
And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?

Not that I agree with the tactic, but there are generally two reasons given: Apparently nothing else will force you to confront the situation, and your going to work enriches the corporate masters.


And that shows how badly these people think-

1) If someone stops me from getting to work, I don't care about their issues- I WANT THEM OUT OF MY WAY!!!

2) If I don't go to work, the 'corporate masters' still get paid. Their salaries and bonuses are not dependent on me getting to work on time on any particular day. However. *I* will lose my pay for the time I was not working.
 
2012-12-23 12:20:34 AM

fredklein: Not by spraying a cloud of pepper spray into their faces, I can tell you that.


OK. I can think of a whole bunch of things I wouldn't do. The question was what would you do?
 
2012-12-23 12:21:44 AM

fredklein: Tatterdemalian: Man On Pink Corner: And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?

By making you give them money, so when they get enough they will magically be more powerful than the evil 1% and be able to break all the laws they want. But they'll do it FOR !!JUSTICE!! so it will be okay.


I always wondered- if the 99% was really 'the 99%', then wouldn't they control the elections? I mean, it doesn't matter how rich/greedy/evil a politician is, if 99% of the voters vote against him, he's out of office. Then the 99%'ers could vote in one of their own, a loyal, trustworthy person.

/unless 'the 99%' isn't really 99%....
//or there are no loyal, trustworthy people amongst them....


That would be working within the system, which is itself broken.
 
2012-12-23 12:47:13 AM

Mr. Carpenter: Abox:

Any kid in this country that thinks their situation compares to living under an actual dictator needs a punch in the nads.

When you speak in absolutes like "any kid" it makes it REALLY easy to disprove. I've worked with kids in Appalachia that would like to have a word with you. Also, I'm guessing you didn't hear about the child just recently murdered for not reading the their Bible... See when you take extreme examples it makes it really easy to disprove a universal claim like "any kid in this country..."


farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2012-12-23 12:54:03 AM

Man On Pink Corner: Mr. Carpenter: It makes people sit up and take notice of a problem that they are too blissfully ignorant to view. Most people are content to let the world burn around them let the lives of millions of people be ruined as long as they get theirs. When "theirs" is threatened or when you directly involve them, they might be more likely to participate or at least passively endorse legislative change if for no other reason than it makes their lives easier, if not for the larger moral reason that they are now aware of the problem and how dire it is.

Yeeaaahhhh... no.


With such an amazingly logical post filled with so much research, insight, and profound wisdom I obviously have NOTHING more to add to this conversation...
 
Esn
2012-12-23 01:41:06 AM

fredklein: Tatterdemalian: Man On Pink Corner: And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?

By making you give them money, so when they get enough they will magically be more powerful than the evil 1% and be able to break all the laws they want. But they'll do it FOR !!JUSTICE!! so it will be okay.


I always wondered- if the 99% was really 'the 99%', then wouldn't they control the elections? I mean, it doesn't matter how rich/greedy/evil a politician is, if 99% of the voters vote against him, he's out of office. Then the 99%'ers could vote in one of their own, a loyal, trustworthy person.

/unless 'the 99%' isn't really 99%....
//or there are no loyal, trustworthy people amongst them....


Among the 1% are gatekeepers who choose who the 99% get to vote for. Looking at it that way, it doesn't matter if 99% of voters don't like what they're doing, because they'll never get an option to vote for the candidate they want (it happens, but not that often). Check the study I linked to earlier, it covers a few decades of this.
 
2012-12-23 01:52:00 AM

Maybe you should drive: fredklein: Not by spraying a cloud of pepper spray into their faces, I can tell you that.

OK. I can think of a whole bunch of things I wouldn't do. The question was what would you do?


Depends on circumstances. Maybe: they grab at me, I grab their arms and cuff them. Or, I step away, and on of the other 50 cops there grabs them and cuffs them.

Again, no pepper-spraying in the face needed.
 
2012-12-23 01:52:51 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: fredklein: Tatterdemalian: Man On Pink Corner: And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?

By making you give them money, so when they get enough they will magically be more powerful than the evil 1% and be able to break all the laws they want. But they'll do it FOR !!JUSTICE!! so it will be okay.


I always wondered- if the 99% was really 'the 99%', then wouldn't they control the elections? I mean, it doesn't matter how rich/greedy/evil a politician is, if 99% of the voters vote against him, he's out of office. Then the 99%'ers could vote in one of their own, a loyal, trustworthy person.

/unless 'the 99%' isn't really 99%....
//or there are no loyal, trustworthy people amongst them....

That would be working within the system, which is itself broken.


The majority (99%) wins. Upon winning, they get the chance to change the system. How is that "broken"??
 
2012-12-23 01:55:31 AM

Esn: Among the 1% are gatekeepers who choose who the 99% get to vote for. Looking at it that way, it doesn't matter if 99% of voters don't like what they're doing, because they'll never get an option to vote for the candidate they want (it happens, but not that often). Check the study I linked to earlier, it covers a few decades of this.


If there was a candidate that 99% of the population wanted, then there is no way they could be left off the ballot. And, even if (due to some technicality) they were, are write-ins not allowed?
 
Esn
2012-12-23 01:55:31 AM

Tatterdemalian: Man On Pink Corner: And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?

By making you give them money, so when they get enough they will magically be more powerful than the evil 1% and be able to break all the laws they want. But they'll do it FOR !!JUSTICE!! so it will be okay.

/too bad money doesn't equal power in the real world
//power is what brings money, it really doesn't work the other way around
///that's why dumping a million dollars in lottery winnings on a homeless bum only enriches the con artists who bleed him dry


I think you have some misunderstandings. One of the major OWS goals was to get money out of politics, to get back to mandatory public campaign finance so that the concerns of people with fewer resources can also get heard.

As for money and power, they are very intimately connected. Money is the ability to get other people to do things that they otherwise wouldn't want to do.

The reason bums who win lotteries often fail to do well for themselves (though not always) is the same reason that children with access to guns are liable to hurt something. They don't have the training.
 
2012-12-23 02:01:38 AM

fredklein: Depends on circumstances. Maybe: they grab at me, I grab their arms and cuff them. Or, I step away, and on of the other 50 cops there grabs them and cuffs them.


That sounds easy. I wonder if the reason this technique isn't utilized more is solely because cops are sadists, or if maybe there is more to it.

I mean, when I watch baseball games I wonder why the hitters don't just hit home runs on every pitch. I've never had the opportunity to hit against major league pitching, but it just looks so easy on tv. It makes me wonder why they don't try it. That's all
 
Esn
2012-12-23 02:12:31 AM

fredklein: Esn: Among the 1% are gatekeepers who choose who the 99% get to vote for. Looking at it that way, it doesn't matter if 99% of voters don't like what they're doing, because they'll never get an option to vote for the candidate they want (it happens, but not that often). Check the study I linked to earlier, it covers a few decades of this.

If there was a candidate that 99% of the population wanted, then there is no way they could be left off the ballot. And, even if (due to some technicality) they were, are write-ins not allowed?


How would 99% of the population know they wanted that candidate if they didn't even know the candidate existed? 6 huge corporations control 90% of the media in America (source). It used to be 50 companies as late as 1983.

How much attention did any of the third-party candidates get in 2012? Almost none at all, although a number were on the ballot in most states. You have to be a candidate from one of the two major parties. And to actually win the primaries in either one, you need to raise a lot of money, and pass all sorts of litmus tests that will weed out the candidates that not acceptable to the gatekeepers.

The politicians also have a strong incentive to not piss off the 1%, because if they do well for them, they can expect a job at a large financial firm after they're done their political career. They also often hold stocks in the companies that they make legislation for.
 
2012-12-23 03:03:07 AM

Mr. Carpenter: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Man On Pink Corner: Esn: You're the one who doesn't see the reality. There are 400 people in the US who are richer than the bottom half of the country (150 million people) combined, who don't go to jail no matter what crimes they commit because the politicians can't get elected without their money, who get bailed out if they run into financial problems while the millions of people with foreclosed homes get nothing, but you think the problem is that some young people are mad about it.

And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?

It doesn't

It makes people sit up and take notice of a problem that they are too blissfully ignorant to view. Most people are content to let the world burn around them let the lives of millions of people be ruined as long as they get theirs. When "theirs" is threatened or when you directly involve them, they might be more likely to participate or at least passively endorse legislative change if for no other reason than it makes their lives easier, if not for the larger moral reason that they are now aware of the problem and how dire it is.

There are a lot of psychological experiments that show that if you individually involve someone in a moral choice they will often make the correct one, but as long as they are an anonymous third party they will let a child die a foot away from them without doing anything about it, or even caring.


Yeah, those people sitting on the blocked train waiting to go home sure took notice.
 
2012-12-23 03:20:48 AM
Did she have trouble when the oil hit her anus?
 
2012-12-23 03:29:13 AM

WhoopAssWayne: Zuccotti Park showed us all exactly what happens when the freeloading liberals are left to their own devices:

*) Went straight to an unelected oligarchy, completely bypassing democratically elected leaders. The people who had control of the (Wells Fargo, heh) bank account were the leaders.

*) Third world sanitation and the predictable spread of preventable disease.

*) Violence, rape, antisemitism, and racism.

*) 'some are more equal than others' nomenklatura with at least 3 separate classes of people: the oligarchy, the commoners, and the takers, with more on the way.

*) Zero self-sustainability, just waiting around for food handouts, etc.

Yes, the Liberal Utopia, all held together by a common hatred for the people who actually pay taxes and and contribute to society.


What color is the sky in where ever it is that you live? It's blue here.
 
2012-12-23 05:01:44 AM
The failures were: (1) Partisanship, and (2) Disorganization.
 
2012-12-23 05:28:11 AM
Ah the joys of a country where police are allowed to use weapons, which they swore 20 years ago would only ever be used to defend themselves and others against dangerous criminals, to enforce compliance at will.

Well done guys.
 
2012-12-23 06:21:45 AM

gaspode: Ah the joys of a country where police are allowed to use weapons, which they swore 20 years ago would only ever be used to defend themselves and others against dangerous criminals, to enforce compliance at will.

Well done guys.


Comedy is its own justification, in this case.
 
2012-12-23 06:30:25 AM
farm3.staticflickr.com
 
2012-12-23 10:14:17 AM

Esn: How would 99% of the population know they wanted that candidate if they didn't even know the candidate existed? 6 huge corporations control 90% of the media in America (source). It used to be 50 companies as late as 1983.


Internet.

Or is that controlled, too? How much do you spend on tinfoil per annum?

How much attention did any of the third-party candidates get in 2012? Almost none at all, although a number were on the ballot in most states.

None were backed by 99% of the population.
 
2012-12-23 10:40:31 AM

ZAZ: An Occupy Portland protester who was blasted in the face with pepper spray was found guilty this week of ignoring police orders and will now have to pay a fine.

The judge had to find her guilty to protect police from her lawsuit.


Not really. It's called "excessive force" for a reason, and there are people currently in jail whose families are getting money from the state because they won an excessive force lawsuit related to the crime they committed to get in jail in the first place.
 
2012-12-23 12:14:07 PM
Trying to keep score here:

TEA Party protesters who get permits, don't block public access or disrupt business, behave like adults and clean up after themselves = the police are afraid to beat them up because they're all armed.

Occupy protesters who block traffic, public transportation and public access; who create public heath hazards; who take over private property and/or public property without permission; who refuse repeated requests to disperse or move and who instead scream in riot cops' faces and get pepper-sprayed = cops are all tiny-dicked thugs who hate and fear the First Amendment.

That about right?
 
2012-12-23 12:39:21 PM

fredklein: None were backed by 99% of the population.


Which, to the "progressives," is proof that the system is broken, because a cult leader worshiped by a fraction of a percent of the population (including the progressive himself) and hated by the rest can't win an election where everyone is allowed to vote. That's NOT FAIR and the whole system needs to be overthrown, by force if necessary.

In the days when only might made right, this was actually how the "divine right of kings" was determined... whoever could rally the biggest, best trained and equipped army and massacre all his challengers with it, became king. Problem was, this was very hard on the population, and had to be repeated whenever the king eventually died, even if he made it very clear who was to be his successor, because there would always be other would-be kings who would try to carve out their own little kingdoms as soon as there was even the tiniest dissent in the army that the king's power truly came from. As a result, no true "superpowers" could emerge until another, less deadly, method of choosing a successor was developed by the Greeks: the use of a popular vote to determine the peoples' will, with the battlefield being in the debate halls and the weapons being mathematics.

/the joke of the "progressives" is that they want us to "progress" back to living in caves
//the punch line is they are in charge of the US now, and are already implementing policies to guide us backwards to the days when military strength decided leaders rather than popular vote
 
2012-12-23 12:57:30 PM

Ishidan: DaCaptain19:
Congrats, 40-somethings. These are your precious snowflakes, your helicopter-parented self-entitled lazy dumbf*cks. who YOU raised, not me.

I rarely see somebody put the blame where it belongs. You can add to that the 40somethings that approved the loans they can't pay, and taught the worthless classes that the loans paid for.


THIS.
 
2012-12-23 01:15:19 PM

Sensei Can You See: Trying to keep score here:

TEA Party protesters who get permits, don't block public access or disrupt business, behave like adults and clean up after themselves = the police are afraid to beat them up because they're all armed.

Occupy protesters who block traffic, public transportation and public access; who create public heath hazards; who take over private property and/or public property without permission; who refuse repeated requests to disperse or move and who instead scream in riot cops' faces and get pepper-sprayed = cops are all tiny-dicked thugs who hate and fear the First Amendment.

That about right?


Yes, and congratulations! You are no longer a FARK newbie, now that you understand how we project our own cowardice onto anyone that actually matters.

/wish I had a diploma to offer, but the best one I could find was on a DeviantArt page
//you think FARK drama is bad, wait till wannabee copyright lawyers get involved
 
2012-12-23 01:17:32 PM
fredklein
2) If I don't go to work, the 'corporate masters' still get paid. Their salaries and bonuses are not dependent on me getting to work on time on any particular day.

Unless they're idiots, they make money off your surplus labor.

If there was a candidate that 99% of the population wanted, then there is no way they could be left off the ballot.

Who's going to put them there?

And, even if (due to some technicality) they were, are write-ins not allowed?

Who's going to organize the write-in campaign?

Internet.

The vast majority of people get their "news" from TV and newspapers and probably always will.


Tatterdemalian

whaarrrgarbl.jpg
 
2012-12-23 01:20:46 PM

TofuTheAlmighty: Don't immediately follow the pointless request of a militarized cop?

That's an assault with a pain spray.

It's still not clear to me why pepper spray isn't banned under the Chem Weapons Convention.


Also if using chemical weapons against your own people is an excuse to invade a country. . . .
 
2012-12-23 01:56:55 PM

Generation_D: RanDomino: Oznog

Holy crap you're smart.

Lets turn it around.  Tell me where you live, and I'll get some friends and show up and break the nearest business windows to your home, frighten your pets, maybe take out some car windows along your street.

Will I then get to accuse you of not living in an appropriate enough dwelling to have a political say?

For some reason you think because something is downtown, you have a right to smash it because it is where traditionally, the protests have been held.

I say we've had enough.  Move that sh*t out to suburbia, its where most/all of the kids doing it grew up, its where it would be nearer your families homes.


First off let me say I definitely don't support Black Block or any kind of destruction of property during a protest. I see your point from your earlier post about how such activities alienate people. I myself stopped going to occupy protests after getting into a fight with the Black Block when they were trying to intimidate a reporter.

However, I think you missed the point of RanDomino's question. You live in a new building in a cheep neighborhood. That means you are paying more rent than the former residents were paying. Which means that other building owners are going to start to throw out residents to try to get more rent.

Also the often new residents often don't have a clue about the changes they are making by moving into this family called a neighborhood. They don't know the mores and often don't care to know them or the history of the place. An I'm here and you should conform to me dominates and that is devastating to an established neighborhood.

Gentrification is an ugly thing just ugly. I watched my neighborhood change from Nurses, plumbers, janitors, trades of all types into higher paid workers. The kids I watched growing up had to leave because someone with more money wanted their home. The relationships built over decades are suddenly broken apart and scattered to the wind.

Trust me that kind of upheaval creates a lot of deep seated anger. When the maintained Fords were replaced by rented beemers I thought about it too.

I wont do it do to my own code of ethics but hopefully I can show you where some of that anger comes from.

This is written assuming you are living in a city environment.

 
2012-12-23 05:25:44 PM

RanDomino: fredklein
2) If I don't go to work, the 'corporate masters' still get paid. Their salaries and bonuses are not dependent on me getting to work on time on any particular day.

Unless they're idiots, they make money off your surplus labor.


No- they make money of of a LOT of people's surplus labor. The fraction of that that I (or any given worker) is responsible for is too small to be meaningful.

To put it another way, If I miss work, the CEO of the company makes a billionth of a cent less this year., while I lose hundreds of dollars in pay.

If there was a candidate that 99% of the population wanted, then there is no way they could be left off the ballot.

Who's going to put them there?


Where?

My point, which you don't seem to get, is that IF the '99%' was actually 'the 99%', then they would not have any trouble getting one of their own elected. I don't see how 99% of the population could fail to do so.

Now, of course, if they aren't really 'the 99%', but were rather a teensy tiny minority, then the lack of any progress in that regard is understandable.

And, even if (due to some technicality) they were, are write-ins not allowed?

Who's going to organize the write-in campaign?


The 99%.
 
2012-12-23 06:11:04 PM

fredklein: kwame: Nem Wan: A court of law has a predetermined bias in favor of the law and therefore someone who disagrees with the fundamental premise that the law should be followed is not going to get a fair hearing.

Or: you don't get a mouthful of pepper spray when you follow the directives of law enforcement.

What if you CAN'T follow their orders? Like, they tell you to disperse, and you can go anywhere because there's, like, 100 peopel behind and around you?

/guess she should have teleported away


I suppose leaning forward and yelling at the cops was her only option. It isn't like she could have, I don't know, simply turned around or anything.
 
2012-12-23 06:32:22 PM

Tatterdemalian: the punch line is they are in charge of the US now, and are already implementing policies to guide us backwards to the days when military strength decided leaders rather than popular vote


Very valid point, unfortunately. This is why a conservative should never miss an opportunity to punch a social conservative in the nuts.

The idiots on the right have cost the rest of us on the right dearly, and in ways that won't become apparent for some time.
 
2012-12-23 09:41:57 PM
fredklein
No- they make money of of a LOT of people's surplus labor. The fraction of that that I (or any given worker) is responsible for is too small to be meaningful.

The fraction from each individual is infinitesimal, but taken together it's 100%.

To put it another way, If I miss work, the CEO of the company makes a billionth of a cent less this year

I'll bet you could actually do some math there.

Where?

My point, which you don't seem to get, is that IF the '99%' was actually 'the 99%', then they would not have any trouble getting one of their own elected. I don't see how 99% of the population could fail to do so.


Who's going to put them on the ballot? A giant ball of outrage is useless. Organization is everything. What organization do people have?

The 99%.

That's a concept, not an organization.


Man On Pink Corner
Very valid point, unfortunately. This is why a conservative should never miss an opportunity to punch a social conservative in the nuts.

The idiots on the right have cost the rest of us on the right dearly, and in ways that won't become apparent for some time.


Religious fundamentalists are a necessary part of the equation, to provide moral justification for why it's OK for some people to be absurdly wealthy and powerful while others are destitute: People are poor because they are in some way immoral. Therefore, no welfare programs because if people are poor they deserve it. Prisons? Build more and lock up anyone for anything, because anyone who commits a crime is morally bankrupt. "For God and country".
 
2012-12-23 10:13:52 PM

FriarED1: I suppose leaning forward and yelling at the cops was her only option. It isn't like she could have, I don't know, simply turned around or anything.


Turned around and gone where? Or do you mean just presented the back of her head to their batons?
 
2012-12-23 10:22:07 PM

RanDomino: I'll bet you could actually do some math there.


Why don't you do the math? Go work for a company for a year, then work a second year, but don't show up one day, and see what difference there is in the CEO's salary.

The fraction from each individual is infinitesimal, but taken together it's 100%.

And did these people block 100% of the workers in the country from getting to work?

No- they stopped a train of people. Maybe even two trains (or three, or whatever). Oh-wait- they didn't STOP them, they just slowed them down. So, the impact on the rich company owners is trivial.

The 99%.

That's a concept, not an organization.


So, instead of hanging out blocking traffic, why don't these people, you know, organize themselves? They can become the organization.

But, that would be work.
 
2012-12-23 11:09:15 PM
fredklein
Why don't you do the math? Go work for a company for a year, then work a second year, but don't show up one day, and see what difference there is in the CEO's salary.

Wow

No- they stopped a train of people. Maybe even two trains (or three, or whatever). Oh-wait- they didn't STOP them, they just slowed them down. So, the impact on the rich company owners is trivial.

It's more of a moral justification than an actual strategy.

So, instead of hanging out blocking traffic, why don't these people, you know, organize themselves? They can become the organization.

But, that would be work.


Tell me about it.
 
2012-12-23 11:53:53 PM

fredklein: Or do you mean just presented the back of her head to their batons?


What batons? Who got hit with batons? Now you're just making shiat up. You really think this woman found herself in this situation by happenstance and was trapped where she got sprayed?

I have been reading threads for eight years, and I can only think of one or two instances where a person presented themselves as poorly as you have in this thread. Congratulations?
 
2012-12-24 12:45:34 AM

Maybe you should drive: fredklein: Or do you mean just presented the back of her head to their batons?

What batons? Who got hit with batons?


No one- the cops were satisfied with spraying a woman in the face and mouth with pepper spray.

You really think this woman found herself in this situation by happenstance and was trapped where she got sprayed?

I think that it is unreasonable to order someone who is surrounded by a huge crowd to leave, then punish her by spraying a chemical irritant directly in her face and mouth for not doing the impossible.
 
2012-12-24 06:33:46 AM
When she was sprayed, was she pleading with the cops that there was nowhere to go? No, she was egging them on and deserved what she got.
 
2012-12-24 11:16:24 AM

FriarED1: When she was sprayed, was she pleading with the cops that there was nowhere to go? No, she was egging them on and deserved what she got.


1) Were you there? Then you don't know what she was saying.

2) The cops weren't listening anyway.

3) It doesn't matter what she was saying- spraying a chemical into someones' face and mouth because she wasn't doing the impossible is wrong. If you think otherwise, come over my place- I'll order you to flap your arms and fly, then mace you when you don't. And you'll enjoy it, because you deserve it, Right?
 
2012-12-24 11:56:08 AM

fredklein: FriarED1: When she was sprayed, was she pleading with the cops that there was nowhere to go? No, she was egging them on and deserved what she got.

1) Were you there? Then you don't know what she was saying.

2) The cops weren't listening anyway.

3) It doesn't matter what she was saying- spraying a chemical into someones' face and mouth because she wasn't doing the impossible is wrong. If you think otherwise, come over my place- I'll order you to flap your arms and fly, then mace you when you don't. And you'll enjoy it, because you deserve it, Right?


I was watching this live as it happened (5 blocks from my house). She had just lunged at an officer. A picture may be worth 1,000 words but carries no context. Also the crowd near her was 4 or 5 people deep with a large open square behind them and could easily have moved back.

Please continue to have no clue about what you're talking about.
 
2012-12-24 12:32:02 PM

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: I was watching this live as it happened (5 blocks from my house). She had just lunged at an officer. A picture may be worth 1,000 words but carries no context. Also the crowd near her was 4 or 5 people deep with a large open square behind them and could easily have moved back.

Please continue to have no clue about what you're talking about.


Pictures only lie when conservatives (and Israelis) take them. They can never lie or be edited to produce false impressions otherwise.

/now shout your two minutes of hate at George Zimmerman like a good citizen
 
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