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(KATU)   When Darth Vader tells you to step back, he means it. Woman gets $260 fine for getting a mouthful of pepper spray during Occupy protest. With throat-on-fire inducing picture   (katu.com) divider line 251
    More: Dumbass, Occupy protests, pepper sprays  
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21172 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Dec 2012 at 10:35 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-22 03:34:53 PM  

kwame: Nem Wan: A court of law has a predetermined bias in favor of the law and therefore someone who disagrees with the fundamental premise that the law should be followed is not going to get a fair hearing.

Or: you don't get a mouthful of pepper spray when you follow the directives of law enforcement.


Ta da! It's magic!
 
2012-12-22 03:36:22 PM  
The Occupy movement is basically a bunch of lazy, stupid, demotivated 20-somethings who are fighting adulthood with every fibre of their bodies.

I know they're lazy, because most are unemployed - if not all.

I know they're stupid because their main concern is having to pay back on a loan. Apparently these uneducated and lazy "kids" - who probably spent more of their college years on binge drinking and homoerotic "experimentation" - do not understand what a basic contract entails.

Congrats, 40-somethings. These are your precious snowflakes, you're helicopter-parented self-entitled lazy dumbf*cks. who YOU raised, not me.

No wonder "men" in their 30's are still living with their parents. No wonder we have these lazy f*cks who refuse to work and refuse to pay back money that THEY borrowed.

There have been a host of organized movements in our history. Never have I read or encountered any "movement" with such a self-serving, self-entitled, useless function as this "occupy" crap, whose main tenant is "Boo-hoo, I don't want to pay back money that was loaned to me in good faith."
 
2012-12-22 03:44:03 PM  

Lizsavage: Those of us with feet on the ground feel as if we have been through battle and if what has been happening for the past year is a sign of exactly how dangerous the police state has become, and makes us all wonder what will be next. Simple protests getting attacked by swarms of heavily armed "soldiers" is terrifying real.


Uh huh. Hardened vets, charging bravely but hopelessly into the clouds of capsaicin. I can see how this past year would seem analogous to the Battle of Verdun. Or, you know, not really.

When the Brute Squad leaves their batons at the station and defaults to live ammunition - like they do in ACTUAL police states - then you can start awarding each other Purple Hearts and Silver Stars. Until then, it's Yellow Moons and Green Clovers.

Generation_D: Occupy started out with high minded morals and descended into mindless violence and smash-the-state crap. It forces people to take sides, and guess what -- most people took the side of "please stop breaking sh*t near my home, if that means police mix it up with you, I guess thats better." You completely lost the actual middle class you claim you're fighting for.


QFT.
 
2012-12-22 03:45:13 PM  
What a wonderful precedent this sets. Women can now be fined because they didn't do what they were told and didn't farking listen. Awesome.
 
2012-12-22 03:48:03 PM  

Noah_Tall: I'm undecided. Give me unedited video of what led up to the incident and what followed and then I'll make a decision. Remember this?

[www.trbimg.com image 580x326]

Everything in the news was claiming that they were peaceful protesters and were only blocking the sidewalk. What actually happened and you can see it on the full length video is that the police were removing their tents and some protesters tried to stop them. Those protesters were arrested. When the cops tried to escort them away a group of protesters surrounded them completely blocking them in. They then started to chant "If you let them go we will let you leave."

So I'm a bit skeptical when I hear that protesters were being completely peaceful and doing nothing that deserved pepper spraying.

Short UC Davis highlights

Full 30 minute UC Davis link


I never knew that. You can actually see the ring of people blocking them in, didn't pay attention to that before
 
2012-12-22 03:48:04 PM  

Noah_Tall: When the cops tried to escort them away a group of protesters surrounded them completely blocking them in.


... blocking their ankles in, you mean.

static5.depositphotos.com
What a "completely blocked in" person may look like.
 
2012-12-22 03:50:57 PM  
Generation_D
// no fan of the cops, but black bloc bullsh*t is worse.

Breaking windows is worse than actively injuring, kidnapping, and robbing human beings.
 
2012-12-22 03:52:16 PM  
Isn't it odd that the same conservative retards who fear a government takeover are the first to cheer when protestors get pepper sprayed, beaten, or otherwise injured for having the audacity to exercise their right to free speech?

/No, wait, it's not odd; it's just indicative of their farking retarded doublethink.
 
2012-12-22 03:56:16 PM  

Pazuzu_the_gargoyle: Esn: For some reason, things like this never happened at the Tea Party rallies. I wonder why.

The Tea Partiers acted all hurt and oppressed, but they were never actually hurt or oppressed.

I can't stand the tea party groups, but their rallies had the proper permits and dispersed if ordered. Thus, the police never had to get involved. The Occupy movement was pretty much the exact opposite. Pepper spray is not a surprising outcome.


Nothing is a surprise in a country where you have to pay a fee to exercise your first amendment rights
 
2012-12-22 04:02:33 PM  

WhoopAssWayne: Zuccotti Park showed us all exactly what happens when the freeloading liberals are left to their own devices:

*) Went straight to an unelected oligarchy, completely bypassing democratically elected leaders. The people who had control of the (Wells Fargo, heh) bank account were the leaders.

*) Third world sanitation and the predictable spread of preventable disease.

*) Violence, rape, antisemitism, and racism.

*) 'some are more equal than others' nomenklatura with at least 3 separate classes of people: the oligarchy, the commoners, and the takers, with more on the way.

*) Zero self-sustainability, just waiting around for food handouts, etc.

Yes, the Liberal Utopia, all held together by a common hatred for the people who actually pay taxes and and contribute to society.


Wow.  That's quite a rich fantasy life you have there.  Have you considered writing a book?
 
2012-12-22 04:09:04 PM  

Tatterdemalian: fredklein: You sidestepped the question: How could she have moved, with a crowd all around her??

A: She couldn't. Thus, the order to move was unreasonable, since she physically could not obey. It'd be like a cop ordering you to flap your arms and fly away- it's impossible. Thus, she was pepper-sprayed for not obeying an order she couldn't obey.

Unreasonable force. QED

Second, what good does spraying her int he face do? If I was sprayed like that, I'd probably collapse and lie there clawing at my eyes/mouth/nose. An ambulance would need to be called, etc. All this takes time, and... blocks the trains for longer. It's like booting a car that's parked blocking traffic- no one can drive it away since it's booted, so it stays there blocking traffic even longer.

Must be a miracle, because moving people that are lying on the ground gagging on pepper spray can't possibly be easier than moving people that are actively attacking the people telling them to move.

/"but you can't prove they were attacking!"
//and you can't prove they weren't, so go right ahead and believe the whole world is out to get you
///your paranoia will become a self-fulfilling prophecy soon enough


she was using Psionic powers wasn't she...  it was those Telekinetic powers she attacked with right?
 
2012-12-22 04:13:26 PM  

One Bad Apple: I don't see what the big deal is. It's basically just a food additive.


Thank you,  Megyn Kelly.
 
2012-12-22 04:22:32 PM  

Noah_Tall: I'm undecided. Give me unedited video of what led up to the incident and what followed and then I'll make a decision. Remember this?

[www.trbimg.com image 580x326]

Everything in the news was claiming that they were peaceful protesters and were only blocking the sidewalk. What actually happened and you can see it on the full length video is that the police were removing their tents and some protesters tried to stop them. Those protesters were arrested. When the cops tried to escort them away a group of protesters surrounded them completely blocking them in. They then started to chant "If you let them go we will let you leave."

So I'm a bit skeptical when I hear that protesters were being completely peaceful and doing nothing that deserved pepper spraying.

Short UC Davis highlights

Full 30 minute UC Davis link


www.internetzculture.com
 
2012-12-22 04:24:34 PM  

Prussian_Roulette: Lizsavage: Those of us with feet on the ground feel as if we have been through battle and if what has been happening for the past year is a sign of exactly how dangerous the police state has become, and makes us all wonder what will be next. Simple protests getting attacked by swarms of heavily armed "soldiers" is terrifying real.

Uh huh. Hardened vets, charging bravely but hopelessly into the clouds of capsaicin. I can see how this past year would seem analogous to the Battle of Verdun. Or, you know, not really.

When the Brute Squad leaves their batons at the station and defaults to live ammunition - like they do in ACTUAL police states - then you can start awarding each other Purple Hearts and Silver Stars. Until then, it's Yellow Moons and Green Clovers

, Purple Horseshoes

Generation_D: Occupy started out with high minded morals and descended into mindless violence and smash-the-state crap. It forces people to take sides, and guess what -- most people took the side of "please stop breaking sh*t near my home, if that means police mix it up with you, I guess thats better." You completely lost the actual middle class you claim you're fighting for.

QFT.


/FTFY
 
2012-12-22 04:33:37 PM  
heh heh heh Facial
 
2012-12-22 04:52:32 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Pazuzu_the_gargoyle: Esn: For some reason, things like this never happened at the Tea Party rallies. I wonder why.

The Tea Partiers acted all hurt and oppressed, but they were never actually hurt or oppressed.

I can't stand the tea party groups, but their rallies had the proper permits and dispersed if ordered. Thus, the police never had to get involved. The Occupy movement was pretty much the exact opposite. Pepper spray is not a surprising outcome.

Nothing is a surprise in a country where you have to pay a fee to exercise your first amendment rights


You don't need to pay a fee if you do it from the comfort of your own home, but once you take it onto public or other's private property you need to get approval. If Occupy had simply occupied their parents front yards we wouldn't be hearing any of this.
 
2012-12-22 04:59:47 PM  
It's the facial money shot... $260, to be precise.
 
2012-12-22 05:32:37 PM  

Tat'dGreaser: ou can actually see the ring of people blocking them in


"Blocking them in"? All the cops needed to do was step over them. Sheesh.
 
2012-12-22 05:48:00 PM  

fredklein: "Blocking them in"? All the cops needed to do was step over them. Sheesh.


Would you put your testicles directly over people who have time and time again said they hated you?
 
2012-12-22 05:55:16 PM  
FarkerinMN
If Occupy had simply occupied their parents front yards we wouldn't be hearing any of this.

Exactly.
 
2012-12-22 06:07:44 PM  
cdn.theatlanticwire.com
 
2012-12-22 06:09:43 PM  

Amos Quito: [media.katu.com image 660x454]

And they call the ones on the left "occupiers".



I think they call themselves that.  The rest of us call them bums.
 
2012-12-22 06:27:40 PM  

Tat'dGreaser: fredklein: "Blocking them in"? All the cops needed to do was step over them. Sheesh.

Would you put your testicles directly over people who have time and time again said they hated you?


If I had a taser, pepper spray, a gun, a nightstick, and a huge bunch of my friends watching out for me and was wearing riot armor?? I wouldn't worry about it too much.

If it bothers, step over the line of people BETWEEN the people. Testicles are over no one.
 
2012-12-22 06:38:10 PM  

fredklein: If I had a taser, pepper spray, a gun, a nightstick, and a huge bunch of my friends watching out for me and was wearing riot armor?? I wouldn't worry about it too much.

If it bothers, step over the line of people BETWEEN the people. Testicles are over no one.


You'd rather they beat them with batons in order to get through?
 
2012-12-22 06:52:31 PM  

fredklein: If the cops want a crowd to disperse, they need to pepper-spray the BACK of the crowd, let them run away, then spray the next row/layer of people, etc, not spray the FRONT row, who literally cannot move.

/but remember, smart people are allowed to be cops


Except if you spray the back row, which direction will they run? Hint: most people will reflexively back away from the threat, not charge through it--but if you spray the back of the crowd, their backing up would just run them into the main body of the crowd. And how will you apply the spray? If you have a "front" and a "back" to the crowd, then you do not have them surrounded...launch tear gas grenades in an arc above the crowd, so they land in the back?
 
2012-12-22 07:00:11 PM  

ZAZ: The judge had to find her guilty to protect police from her lawsuit


www.plasticjungle.com
 
2012-12-22 07:00:51 PM  
Something to entertain the bloodthirsty in this thread.
/and that was, I understand...a soccer riot?
 
2012-12-22 07:05:14 PM  

Tat'dGreaser: fredklein: If I had a taser, pepper spray, a gun, a nightstick, and a huge bunch of my friends watching out for me and was wearing riot armor?? I wouldn't worry about it too much.

If it bothers, step over the line of people BETWEEN the people. Testicles are over no one.

You'd rather they beat them with batons in order to get through?


What? I never said that. I said it wouldn't be troubled stepping over them (as you put it "put your testicles directly over people who have time and time again said they hated you") if I was so armed and armored.
 
Esn
2012-12-22 07:11:14 PM  

Abox: Amos Quito: [media.katu.com image 660x454]

And they call the ones on the left "occupiers".


I think they call themselves that.  The rest of us call them bums.


They're democracy protesters, like the ones Fark was supporting in Iran and Egypt. Except they were weaker (so weak they couldn't even allow themselves to use weapons), and the regime was stronger.

When you understand why you hate Occupy, you will understand why you would also not support protests in other regimes. They're all dirty, chaotic, unreasonable, and law-breaking.  They're all done by people who seem to have nothing better to do all day, "so why don't they get a job?"

It's not exactly coincidence that Occupy happened soon after the Arab Spring.  The kids at home saw the parallels, saw the crooks who run the country siphoning money into their personal bank accounts and not being held to account, and tried to see if they could do what those others did. But they couldn't, not even close.
 
2012-12-22 07:13:13 PM  

Ishidan: fredklein: If the cops want a crowd to disperse, they need to pepper-spray the BACK of the crowd, let them run away, then spray the next row/layer of people, etc, not spray the FRONT row, who literally cannot move.

/but remember, smart people are allowed to be cops

Except if you spray the back row, which direction will they run? Hint: most people will reflexively back away from the threat, not charge through it--but if you spray the back of the crowd, their backing up would just run them into the main body of the crowd.


It is trivial from an elevated position to aim over the heads of the front row and hit people behind them. In fact, simply raising an arm in the air can accomplish this. (Of course, there are other ways to do this, such as standing on a ladder, etc.) Thus, the back row runs away, and now you can spray the front row, and the front row actually has the ability to leave, since there is no one behind them.

There is also this thing called a ballistic arc- spray up at an angle, and gravity will arc the stream.
 
2012-12-22 07:38:54 PM  

fredklein: It is trivial from an elevated position to aim over the heads of the front row and hit people behind them. In fact, simply raising an arm in the air can accomplish this. (Of course, there are other ways to do this, such as standing on a ladder, etc.) Thus, the back row runs away, and now you can spray the front row, and the front row actually has the ability to leave, since there is no one behind them.

There is also this thing called a ballistic arc- spray up at an angle, and gravity will arc the stream.


Well, the small range of handheld aerosol projectors (http://www.sabrered.com/servlet/the-template/LawEnforcement-dsh-Crowd Management/Page">30 feet on the horizontal, or thereabouts...so what, maybe 50 feet of arc?) means this doesn't work near as well as one might think: you just don't have the range to hit the 'back' of a crowd while keeping yourself at a safe distance, you'll hit the middle-which will then panic and trample the actual 'rear'. There's also police brutality concerns: You can't see what you're actually hitting, and the ones you're hitting are not the ones presenting a direct threat, because the front row keeps them out of striking range. Fine for military applications, but lawyer-bait in a police situation.
 
2012-12-22 07:39:04 PM  
Ishidan
if you spray the back of the crowd, their backing up would just run them into the main body of the crowd.

This is dumb and you should feel bad.
 
2012-12-22 07:41:24 PM  
oops forgot to close my tag linking to a pepper spray manufacturer's police grade specs page...you get the idea.
 
2012-12-22 07:42:15 PM  

fredklein: What? I never said that. I said it wouldn't be troubled stepping over them (as you put it "put your testicles directly over people who have time and time again said they hated you") if I was so armed and armored.


Ok that's cool, they have all this armor and they are armed. What happens if they step over these students and they decide they want to mess with them? Do they react in force or do they just let their testicles get punched?

It's so easy for us to decide what people should do when we're not there
 
2012-12-22 07:44:34 PM  

RanDomino: Ishidan
if you spray the back of the crowd, their backing up would just run them into the main body of the crowd.

This is dumb and you should feel bad.


I know. I was cutting down FredKlein's idea to disperse a crowd from the rear. Maybe I've just seen bigger crowds than he has...
 
2012-12-22 07:47:23 PM  

fredklein: If it bothers, step over the line of people BETWEEN the people. Testicles are over no one.


Between? They sit shoulder to shoulder, that's the entire point. There is no "between" that does not have two arms in it.
 
2012-12-22 07:54:57 PM  

DaCaptain19:
Congrats, 40-somethings. These are your precious snowflakes, your helicopter-parented self-entitled lazy dumbf*cks. who YOU raised, not me.


I rarely see somebody put the blame where it belongs. You can add to that the 40somethings that approved the loans they can't pay, and taught the worthless classes that the loans paid for.
 
2012-12-22 08:06:51 PM  

Esn: For some reason, things like this never happened at the Tea Party rallies. I wonder why.



Because they don't assault others, break store windows or set cars on fire?
 
2012-12-22 08:09:15 PM  

Abox: Amos Quito: [media.katu.com image 660x454]

And they call the ones on the left "occupiers".


I think they call themselves that.  The rest of us call them bums.


Ha ha. Nice.
 
2012-12-22 08:12:09 PM  

fragMasterFlash: Wow, she must have absolutely no gag reflex whatsoever.


Well...not now.
 
2012-12-22 08:19:34 PM  

Tat'dGreaser: What happens if they step over these students and they decide they want to mess with them? Do they react in force or do they just let their testicles get punched?


Then they get arrested for assaulting an officer. Duh.
 
2012-12-22 08:28:20 PM  

Esn: "when Americans with different income levels differ in their policy preferences, actual policy outcomes strongly reflect the preferences of the most affluent but bear virtually no relationship to the preferences of poor or middle-income Americans."


(Shrug) You go live in a country run by bums, I'll stay here.
 
2012-12-22 08:31:12 PM  

Esn: It's not exactly coincidence that Occupy happened soon after the Arab Spring.  The kids at home saw the parallels, saw the crooks who run the country siphoning money into their personal bank accounts and not being held to account, and tried to see if they could do what those others did. But they couldn't, not even close.


In short, the kids saw something that isn't there, and when attacking the imaginary things didn't make them go away, they started attacking the people that couldn't see their hallucinations, on the assumption that they were collaborating with them somehow to make them look crazy.

/before pepper spray was available, it would have been like Kent State
//actually if the media wasn't covering for the President like Baghdad Bob for the Baaths, it would have been a horrifying abuse worse than Kent State, The Holocaust, and "Gigli" combined
///so, thank you, Obama
 
2012-12-22 08:45:46 PM  

Lizsavage: We have been beat with clubs, tear gassed, flash grenades, shot with less lethal weapons, and pepper spray. Not to mention being chased, run over, and run down; by police on foot, bikes, horses, motorcycles, cars, vans, and large transports with militarized men hanging off the side


It's hard to reach any conclusion other than one of the following two possibilities:
1) You people are insane, because that's what it implies when you do the same thing over and over, expecting a different outcome; or

2) OWS is actually an underground cult of masochists who enjoy being "beat with clubs, tear gassed, flash grenades, shot with less lethal weapons, and pepper spray. Not to mention being chased, run over, and run down; by police on foot, bikes, horses, motorcycles, cars, vans, and large transports with militarized men hanging off the side."

So: either start your goddamned revolution, already, or get off the pot train tracks.
 
2012-12-22 09:15:17 PM  

Esn: Abox: Amos Quito: [media.katu.com image 660x454]

And they call the ones on the left "occupiers".


I think they call themselves that.  The rest of us call them bums.

They're democracy protesters, like the ones Fark was supporting in Iran and Egypt. Except they were weaker (so weak they couldn't even allow themselves to use weapons), and the regime was stronger.

When you understand why you hate Occupy, you will understand why you would also not support protests in other regimes. They're all dirty, chaotic, unreasonable, and law-breaking.  They're all done by people who seem to have nothing better to do all day, "so why don't they get a job?"

It's not exactly coincidence that Occupy happened soon after the Arab Spring.  The kids at home saw the parallels, saw the crooks who run the country siphoning money into their personal bank accounts and not being held to account, and tried to see if they could do what those others did. But they couldn't, not even close.



Any kid in this country that thinks their situation compares to living under an actual dictator needs a punch in the nads.
 
2012-12-22 09:31:13 PM  

Lizsavage: You know what else the tea party has? Guns. Occupy protestors tend to be fairly nonviolent. We haven't "rioted" but suffered the effects of many police riots. We have been beat with clubs, tear gassed, flash grenades, shot with less lethal weapons, and pepper spray. Not to mention being chased, run over, and run down; by police on foot, bikes, horses, motorcycles, cars, vans, and large transports with militarized men hanging off the side. Those of us with feet on the ground feel as if we have been through battle and if what has been happening for the past year is a sign of exactly how dangerous the police state has become, and makes us all wonder what will be next. Simple protests getting attacked by swarms of heavily armed "soldiers" is terrifying real. Occupy changed the conversation so much the banks were running scared and donated millions to the police forces all around the country. Over one million people pulled their money out of banks in short time lazy tear due to occupy. Fraudclosure mills across the country are being exposes. Robosigning, forged documents to screw homeowners, not to mention made to fail loans, where lenders actually lied about income to give the buyer the loan. Loans are sold bank to bank, houses are stolen through confused or corrupt courts. For a year we have been fighting these injustices while facing many ourselves. Don't let the trivial matter of his being attacked over and over story you from participating in a way that doesn't include direct action as there are plenty of ways to be involved. Its not a protest its a worldwide movement.

Yet you shiat on cop cars while the tea party men clean up even though they have guns. Appears some are adults and good citizens ,protecting their rights by peaceful gatherings and organized protest and the other is, well, you dirty hippies.
 
2012-12-22 09:45:29 PM  

swangoatman: Yet you shiat on cop cars while the tea party men clean up even though they have guns. Appears some are adults and good citizens ,protecting their rights by peaceful gatherings and organized protest and the other is, well, you dirty hippies.


To be fair, we can't judge them all by the over-the-top actions of a few OWS members who are obviously either psychopaths or police plants.  There have been instances where both varieties of protesters have succeeded in making a whole crowd look bad.

There is plenty to criticize and/or laugh at in the behavior and expectations of the "mainstream" OWS crowd.  Like the events depicted in this very photo, for example.
 
Esn
2012-12-22 10:15:06 PM  

Tatterdemalian: Esn: It's not exactly coincidence that Occupy happened soon after the Arab Spring.  The kids at home saw the parallels, saw the crooks who run the country siphoning money into their personal bank accounts and not being held to account, and tried to see if they could do what those others did. But they couldn't, not even close.

In short, the kids saw something that isn't there, and when attacking the imaginary things didn't make them go away, they started attacking the people that couldn't see their hallucinations, on the assumption that they were collaborating with them somehow to make them look crazy.


You're the one who doesn't see the reality. There are 400 people in the US who are richer than the bottom half of the country (150 million people) combined, who don't go to jail no matter what crimes they commit because the politicians can't get elected without their money, who get bailed out if they run into financial problems while the millions of people with foreclosed homes get nothing, but you think the problem is that some young people are mad about it.

By the way, the BBC just finished showing a fantastic documentary about all of this. It's called "Park Avenue: Money, Power and the American Dream" (trailer)
 
2012-12-22 10:31:00 PM  

fredklein: Then they get arrested for assaulting an officer. Duh.


And the arrest is made how?

You are kind of bringing us back to square one.
 
2012-12-22 10:48:54 PM  

Esn: You're the one who doesn't see the reality. There are 400 people in the US who are richer than the bottom half of the country (150 million people) combined, who don't go to jail no matter what crimes they commit because the politicians can't get elected without their money, who get bailed out if they run into financial problems while the millions of people with foreclosed homes get nothing, but you think the problem is that some young people are mad about it.


And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?
 
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