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(KATU)   When Darth Vader tells you to step back, he means it. Woman gets $260 fine for getting a mouthful of pepper spray during Occupy protest. With throat-on-fire inducing picture   (katu.com) divider line 251
    More: Dumbass, Occupy protests, pepper sprays  
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21173 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Dec 2012 at 10:35 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



251 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-12-22 07:47:50 AM  
I got something that'll soothe that throat
 
2012-12-22 08:38:04 AM  
Holy hell that looked brutal.
 
2012-12-22 08:40:56 AM  
media.katu.com 

Also, look at the jackass behind her.  It looks like he is holding her arm.  Almost like he pulled her in front of him.  Nothing like a human shield with a mild resemblance to Hermione Granger.
 
2012-12-22 08:46:22 AM  

Shadowknight: [media.katu.com image 660x454] 

Also, look at the jackass behind her.  It looks like he is holding her arm.  Almost like he pulled her in front of him.  Nothing like a human shield with a mild resemblance to Hermione Granger.


...or he's trying to pull her back.
 
2012-12-22 09:05:56 AM  

BunkyBrewman: ...or he's trying to pull her back.


You believe your reality, I'll believe mine.  

In truth, I know he wasn't holding her there as a shield.  A camera catches a moment in time, and he could have been pulling her back, holding her, giving her a back rub, or any number of things at the time.  It's just funny to think of some guy going "oh shiat!" and ducking behind the nearest tiny woman.
 
2012-12-22 09:14:37 AM  

Shadowknight: BunkyBrewman: ...or he's trying to pull her back.

You believe your reality, I'll believe mine.  

In truth, I know he wasn't holding her there as a shield.  A camera catches a moment in time, and he could have been pulling her back, holding her, giving her a back rub, or any number of things at the time.  It's just funny to think of some guy going "oh shiat!" and ducking behind the nearest tiny woman.


As someone familiar with protester and police behavior in that city I'm not getting a kick out of this.

/he was trying to pull her away
//PDX women are mouthy b*tches
///native
 
2012-12-22 09:17:49 AM  
i2.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-22 09:19:33 AM  
Was she ok?  I know from personal experience how painful that stuff is, and I never swallowed a lungful of it.  I'd rather be tased a couple more times because once that is done, the pain STOPS.  Not so much with the CS.

And as a medic, I know people can have severe reactions to it and difficulty breathing under even optimal usages.  Can't imagine catching it in the throat like that.
 
2012-12-22 09:38:12 AM  
That's a hot facial.
 
2012-12-22 09:42:31 AM  
media.katu.com

And they call the ones on the left "occupiers".
 
2012-12-22 09:42:53 AM  

Shadowknight: BunkyBrewman: ...or he's trying to pull her back.

You believe your reality, I'll believe mine.

In truth, I know he wasn't holding her there as a shield.  A camera catches a moment in time, and he could have been pulling her back, holding her, giving her a back rub, or any number of things at the time.  It's just funny to think of some guy going "oh shiat!" and ducking behind the nearest tiny woman.


I'm rethinking my answer.  Since he's a hipster, I'll go with your first impression.

It is quite the picture.  Yes, I LOL'd.  I know, it's not really funny but the whole scenario must have played out by "MOVE BACK"  "NO!  WE'RE NOT MOVING ANYWHERE"  "MOVE BACK"  "NO!"  "OK THEN"  "WARRGGGBLBLLL... ACK!"

Pepper spray.  It freshens the breath, reduces plaque AND is fun at protests.
 
2012-12-22 09:47:24 AM  
The First Amendment.

Now with Peppery Goodness.
 
2012-12-22 09:49:04 AM  
media.katu.com

This pictures needs a couple changes.

1. Woman holding up victory (or peace, whatever) sign should be holding up an 'L' for loser sign
2. At least one helmet ought to be marked with 'CSB'

Bonus kudos if the faux-houndstooth blouse can be turned into a video game t-shirt.
 
2012-12-22 09:51:15 AM  
i1121.photobucket.com
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-12-22 10:01:37 AM  
An Occupy Portland protester who was blasted in the face with pepper spray was found guilty this week of ignoring police orders and will now have to pay a fine.

The judge had to find her guilty to protect police from her lawsuit.
 
2012-12-22 10:03:59 AM  
Great. And she can send the cop her hospital bill.
 
2012-12-22 10:22:27 AM  
This is what opening a can of STFU might look like.
 
2012-12-22 10:23:03 AM  

Shadowknight: In truth, I know he wasn't holding her there as a shield.


how do you "know" this?

look at his expression and where he is looking
 
2012-12-22 10:36:55 AM  

SilentStrider: Great. And she can send the cop her hospital bill.


You're missing a big point though. Judge found her guilty of not obeying a lawful order from police. Thus, police are not liable for what happened.

It sucks, but you ARE trained to aim for the face. As it blinds you, and makes it rather uncomfortable to breathe, it tends to take the fight out of a person rather quickly. But wide open like that... damn, that had to suck.
 
2012-12-22 10:40:36 AM  

ZAZ: An Occupy Portland protester who was blasted in the face with pepper spray was found guilty this week of ignoring police orders and will now have to pay a fine.

The judge had to find her guilty to protect police from her lawsuit.


Probably.  Even if that wasn't the intent, it is the effect.  Since the state has a higher burden of proof in a criminal matter than a civil, a finding that the police acted reasonably in some fashion would mean her suit is now dead in the water.
 
2012-12-22 10:41:37 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-22 10:41:55 AM  
blog.etq.com
 
2012-12-22 10:42:15 AM  
A court of law has a predetermined bias in favor of the law and therefore someone who disagrees with the fundamental premise that the law should be followed is not going to get a fair hearing.
 
2012-12-22 10:42:17 AM  
Bahahahaha . Inhale. Bahahahaha !
 
2012-12-22 10:44:10 AM  
i.imgur.com

/it pays to recycle
 
Esn
2012-12-22 10:44:11 AM  
For some reason, things like this never happened at the Tea Party rallies. I wonder why.

The Tea Partiers acted all hurt and oppressed, but they were never actually hurt or oppressed.
 
2012-12-22 10:44:50 AM  
Wow, she must have absolutely no gag reflex whatsoever.
 
2012-12-22 10:45:35 AM  
Not very smart. Remember the name Liz Nichols. Coming soon to a theater near you.
 
2012-12-22 10:47:30 AM  
I bet that officer felt very Threatened by her.
 
2012-12-22 10:47:32 AM  
Of course the judge backed the cop, got to protect the land of the free police state.
 
2012-12-22 10:47:38 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-22 10:48:32 AM  
You wanted more government.
You got a mouthful of it.

/only police can be trusted to properly use weapons so we can assume that pepper spray was being properly used.
 
2012-12-22 10:49:32 AM  

Shadowknight: SilentStrider: Great. And she can send the cop her hospital bill.

You're missing a big point though. Judge found her guilty of not obeying a lawful order from police. Thus, police are not liable for what happened.

It sucks, but you ARE trained to aim for the face. As it blinds you, and makes it rather uncomfortable to breathe, it tends to take the fight out of a person rather quickly. But wide open like that... damn, that had to suck.



Ruless 2 and 3 of the "Quick Silver" method: If a man cannot see, he cannot fight. If a man cannot breathe, he cannot fight.
 
2012-12-22 10:49:37 AM  
Not the best way to get that taste out of your mouth.
 
2012-12-22 10:49:40 AM  
If that woman had been armed, this would never have happened.

Remington 870: for all your 1st Amendment needs.
 
2012-12-22 10:50:41 AM  

Nem Wan: A court of law has a predetermined bias in favor of the law and therefore someone who disagrees with the fundamental premise that the law should be followed is not going to get a fair hearing.


Or: you don't get a mouthful of pepper spray when you follow the directives of law enforcement.
 
2012-12-22 10:51:50 AM  
Guilty of not following police orders?
What if he ordered her to ... ... ...?
 
2012-12-22 10:53:03 AM  

Esn: For some reason, things like this never happened at the Tea Party rallies. I wonder why.

The Tea Partiers acted all hurt and oppressed, but they were never actually hurt or oppressed.


That's because they didn't fight with the police, get a mouthful of pepper spray, and a fine.

/I have no sympathy with angry rioters because you can hold peaceful demonstrations in the U.S. and we have free elections. If ppl really were oppressed here, it would be different.
 
2012-12-22 10:53:05 AM  

Raharu: I bet that officer felt very Threatened by her.


Good point. He should have just stood there and argued with her.
 
2012-12-22 10:53:40 AM  

gilgigamesh: ZAZ: An Occupy Portland protester who was blasted in the face with pepper spray was found guilty this week of ignoring police orders and will now have to pay a fine.

The judge had to find her guilty to protect police from her lawsuit.

Probably.  Even if that wasn't the intent, it is the effect.  Since the state has a higher burden of proof in a criminal matter than a civil, a finding that the police acted reasonably in some fashion would mean her suit is now dead in the water.


No and no.
 
2012-12-22 10:53:41 AM  

TexasPeace: Guilty of not following police orders?
What if he ordered her to ... ... ...?


Comply or you will be assimilated.
 
2012-12-22 10:55:26 AM  
I guess that peace sign isn't doing much good now, is it, hippie?

Why didn't she just hold up her Macbook Pro to deflect the pepper spray?
 
2012-12-22 10:58:42 AM  

gilgigamesh: ZAZ: An Occupy Portland protester who was blasted in the face with pepper spray was found guilty this week of ignoring police orders and will now have to pay a fine.

The judge had to find her guilty to protect police from her lawsuit.

Probably.  Even if that wasn't the intent, it is the effect.  Since the state has a higher burden of proof in a criminal matter than a civil, a finding that the police acted reasonably in some fashion would mean her suit is now dead in the water.


The civil grievance of "excessive force" is not disproved by her conviction for failing to obey a lawful order. However, I don't think the force used will be found excessive.
 
2012-12-22 10:59:13 AM  

buntz:


You sir, are a winner.
 
2012-12-22 10:59:38 AM  
She sued for excessive force? I think for an officer in riot gear, pepper spray is the least lethal weapon he had, because words have clearly failed.

Not trying to support the police or any corruption therein, just an opinion. She's lucky she got cheeto'd over beat with a baton or shot. Now if he'd knocked her down and sprayed her from a few inches away, I'd agree that's too far, as the stream from those canisters can pierce the skin or eye at that close.
 
2012-12-22 10:59:46 AM  

buntz: [i.imgur.com image 660x454]


I guffawed quite loudly.

Nice jerb.
 
2012-12-22 11:00:35 AM  

Esn: For some reason, things like this never happened at the Tea Party rallies. I wonder why.

The Tea Partiers acted all hurt and oppressed, but they were never actually hurt or oppressed.


The Tea Party knows not to antagonize the cops? That's the one class of citizens(cops are citizens) that if you antagonize you will be assaulted and it will most of the times be legal.
 
Esn
2012-12-22 11:04:31 AM  

Animatronik: Esn: For some reason, things like this never happened at the Tea Party rallies. I wonder why.

The Tea Partiers acted all hurt and oppressed, but they were never actually hurt or oppressed.

That's because they didn't fight with the police, get a mouthful of pepper spray, and a fine.

/I have no sympathy with angry rioters because you can hold peaceful demonstrations in the U.S. and we have free elections. If ppl really were oppressed here, it would be different.


What do you call this, then:
"when Americans with different income levels differ in their policy preferences, actual policy outcomes strongly reflect the preferences of the most affluent but bear virtually no relationship to the preferences of poor or middle-income Americans."
-Inequality and Democratic Responsiveness (2005 study by Martin Gilens from Oxford University)

If I remember correctly, the Occupy people made a point of being peaceful. It didn't help. They were harassed, infiltrated, and ultimately discredited.

The Tea Partiers were left alone because their interests coincided with those of the elite. They had the largest domestic news network promoting and helping them. OWS had... well, they had RT, I guess. Which counts for a little, but not that much.
 
2012-12-22 11:07:13 AM  
Don't you guys get it, man?

The Occupy Movement makes the Powers-That-Be scared and when they get scared they send in their jackbooted thugs. Attack a bank? That's a beating. Exercise your right to protest? That's a beating. March peacefully in solidarity? That's a beating.

You know why the TEA PARTY didn't get the cops sicced on them because they <b>are</b> the Establishment. They are a front for the Koch Brothers, and are used to consolidate power for the right wing Capitalists.

Occupy is about Freedom. The Tea Party is about racism and crushing the working man.

That's why the unarmed woman in this picture is getting brutalized by the police in riot gear.
 
2012-12-22 11:07:24 AM  
Ok, so let me get it straight...there's NOTHING wrong with the system or the government and these smelly hippies need to shut up (to hell with their rights under the 1st Amendment) and just DO WHAT THE GOVERNMENT/COPS SAY ... but the government is also oppressive and can't be trusted because they'll send the police and military after us any day now, so Tea Partiers need unlimited guns (2nd Amendment) to protect themselves from that same government....that they also protested against....but that they support when macing hippies....but don't trust.....but that doesn't mean the hippies are right....or something.
 
2012-12-22 11:07:29 AM  
Zuccotti Park showed us all exactly what happens when the freeloading liberals are left to their own devices:

*) Went straight to an unelected oligarchy, completely bypassing democratically elected leaders. The people who had control of the (Wells Fargo, heh) bank account were the leaders.

*) Third world sanitation and the predictable spread of preventable disease.

*) Violence, rape, antisemitism, and racism.

*) 'some are more equal than others' nomenklatura with at least 3 separate classes of people: the oligarchy, the commoners, and the takers, with more on the way.

*) Zero self-sustainability, just waiting around for food handouts, etc.

Yes, the Liberal Utopia, all held together by a common hatred for the people who actually pay taxes and and contribute to society.
 
2012-12-22 11:11:32 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Don't you guys get it, man?

The Occupy Movement makes the Powers-That-Be scared and when they get scared they send in their jackbooted thugs. Attack a bank? That's a beating. Exercise your right to protest? That's a beating. March peacefully in solidarity? That's a beating.

You know why the TEA PARTY didn't get the cops sicced on them because they <b>are</b> the Establishment. They are a front for the Koch Brothers, and are used to consolidate power for the right wing Capitalists.

Occupy is about Freedom. The Tea Party is about racism and crushing the working man.

That's why the unarmed woman in this picture is getting brutalized by the police in riot gear.


You're trying too hard.
 
2012-12-22 11:12:29 AM  
Shot in the mouth / now she's to blame / They give freedom / a bad name.
 
2012-12-22 11:13:02 AM  

kwame: AverageAmericanGuy: Don't you guys get it, man?

The Occupy Movement makes the Powers-That-Be scared and when they get scared they send in their jackbooted thugs. Attack a bank? That's a beating. Exercise your right to protest? That's a beating. March peacefully in solidarity? That's a beating.

You know why the TEA PARTY didn't get the cops sicced on them because they <b>are</b> the Establishment. They are a front for the Koch Brothers, and are used to consolidate power for the right wing Capitalists.

Occupy is about Freedom. The Tea Party is about racism and crushing the working man.

That's why the unarmed woman in this picture is getting brutalized by the police in riot gear.

You're trying too hard.


And HTML doesn't seem to work right either.
 
2012-12-22 11:13:50 AM  

kwame: Raharu: I bet that officer felt very Threatened by her.

Good point. He should have just stood there and argued with her.


It's not the officers job to argue or debate with her. He is there to respond with appropriate force to ensure public safety.

He's also head to toe in body armor, and carrying a riot shield, and like has more physical strength due to his much higher body mass.

He must have a very small dick to be so threatened by her as to pepper spray he in the face let alone directly in the mouth. The appropriate response would have been to push back harder on his shield.
 
2012-12-22 11:14:17 AM  

BarkingUnicorn: gilgigamesh: ZAZ: An Occupy Portland protester who was blasted in the face with pepper spray was found guilty this week of ignoring police orders and will now have to pay a fine.

The judge had to find her guilty to protect police from her lawsuit.

Probably.  Even if that wasn't the intent, it is the effect.  Since the state has a higher burden of proof in a criminal matter than a civil, a finding that the police acted reasonably in some fashion would mean her suit is now dead in the water.

The civil grievance of "excessive force" is not disproved by her conviction for failing to obey a lawful order. However, I don't think the force used will be found excessive.


It's not even close to excessive force.  That is, unless he shot her in the back of the head after after pepperspraying and handcuffing her.

The only claim she may have had would have been false arrest, which is, as I said, dead in the water if she was convicted.

chewielouie: No and no.


Thank you for your insightful rebuttal.  Tell me, how many civil rights actions against police have you litigated in your long and illustrious legal career?
 
2012-12-22 11:14:23 AM  
Shadowknight

BunkyBrewman: ...or he's trying to pull her back.

You believe your reality, I'll believe mine.

In truth, I know he wasn't holding her there as a shield. A camera catches a moment in time, and he could have been pulling her back, holding her, giving her a back rub, or any number of things at the time. It's just funny to think of some guy going "oh shiat!" and ducking behind the nearest tiny woman.


Wow you have your own reality. Thats impressive, I can even have a dog.

If you read anything about this, you would know that the guy stated he was trying to pull her back at the ordering of the officer and that she kepting pulling forward hence the appearance of her leading with her face.

Do you see that in your reality.
 
2012-12-22 11:14:34 AM  
That picture warmed my heart and brightened my day. Rule #1 in life is when someone with pepper spray, a gun, and they rule of law says to do something, do it or this will happen.
 
2012-12-22 11:16:18 AM  
When they interviewed her, she said all her food tasted like Cajun food for over 5 weeks after the event.
 
2012-12-22 11:16:21 AM  

way south: You wanted more government.
You got a mouthful of it.


Yes, because in the conservative vision of small-government America, there's not much law enforcement. They hate police.
 
2012-12-22 11:17:06 AM  

TOWG: That picture warmed my heart and brightened my day. Rule #1 in life is when someone with pepper spray, a gun, and they rule of law says to do something, do it or this will happen.



It's good to know that you bow and humble yourself to the nearest armed authority figure.

Pick up that can citizen.
 
2012-12-22 11:17:43 AM  
More to the point, if her arrest was lawful, then everything the officer did to effect that arrest is lawful.  

From what we know. I am assuming, of course, he didn't handcuff her and then rape her or something.
 
2012-12-22 11:18:34 AM  
Cop tells you to do something reasonable and in compliance
You refuse
Cop tells you again
You refuse again and ratchet up the disregard and you'll get a face full of pepper spray

I realize most of you are young and duty bound to hate police for ruining you're buzz but this is a common sense life lesson. The cop is there doing the job they're paid to. It's the mouthy biatch who is the person doing wrong in the picture
 
2012-12-22 11:19:52 AM  

Raharu: kwame: Raharu: I bet that officer felt very Threatened by her.

Good point. He should have just stood there and argued with her.

It's not the officers job to argue or debate with her. He is there to respond with appropriate force to ensure public safety.

He's also head to toe in body armor, and carrying a riot shield, and like has more physical strength due to his much higher body mass.

He must have a very small dick to be so threatened by her as to pepper spray he in the face let alone directly in the mouth. The appropriate response would have been to push back harder on his shield.


"Watch out, men! She's got a  voice!"
 
2012-12-22 11:19:56 AM  
Liz Nichols does Portland?
 
2012-12-22 11:20:22 AM  

Raharu: kwame: Raharu: I bet that officer felt very Threatened by her.

Good point. He should have just stood there and argued with her.

It's not the officers job to argue or debate with her. He is there to respond with appropriate force to ensure public safety.

He's also head to toe in body armor, and carrying a riot shield, and like has more physical strength due to his much higher body mass.

He must have a very small dick to be so threatened by her as to pepper spray he in the face let alone directly in the mouth. The appropriate response would have been to push back harder on his shield.


You're missing the point. He tells her to do something. She refuses. At that point, in a crowd outnumbering law enforcement, she absolutely is a threat.
 
2012-12-22 11:20:33 AM  

Raharu: It's good to know that you bow and humble yourself to the nearest armed authority figure.

Pick up that can citizen.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/15/indiana-high-court-rules- pe ople-resist-illegal-entry-police-homes/

It doesn't matter whether or not you feel you are being wronged. You can take that up with them in court. In the meantime, comply.
 
2012-12-22 11:21:18 AM  
Raharu [

kwame: Raharu: I bet that officer felt very Threatened by her.

Good point. He should have just stood there and argued with her.

It's not the officers job to argue or debate with her. He is there to respond with appropriate force to ensure public safety.

He's also head to toe in body armor, and carrying a riot shield, and like has more physical strength due to his much higher body mass.

He must have a very small dick to be so threatened by her as to pepper spray he in the face let alone directly in the mouth. The appropriate response would have been to push back harder on his shield.


You don't pay cops to put themselves in harms way, you pay them to maintain public safety. Use of pepper spray or taser would have the smallest risk to him. Don't want some stupid coont getting in a lucky shot and putting this guy on disability for rest of his career.
 
2012-12-22 11:21:51 AM  

SuperDuper28: Cop tells you to do something reasonable and in compliance
You refuse
Cop tells you again
You refuse again and ratchet up the disregard and you'll get a face full of pepper spray


What does that even mean? 

I realize most of you are young and duty bound to hate police for ruining you're buzz but this is a common sense life lesson. The cop is there doing the job they're paid to. It's the mouthy biatch who is the person doing wrong in the picture

Annnnd we see the real justification in your eyes. Violence is okay, if someone is female and speaking.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-12-22 11:22:15 AM  
When they interviewed her, she said all her food tasted like Cajun food for over 5 weeks after the event.

Or Mexican food. Several years ago a memo was sent out to Cambridge, Mass. police officers warning that Hispanic people had a lot of hot pepper in their diet and may have built up resistance to pepper spray. Eventually somebody noticed that the memo was telling police to spray brown skinned people harder. The advice was withdrawn.
 
2012-12-22 11:22:35 AM  

Raharu: kwame: Raharu: I bet that officer felt very Threatened by her.

Good point. He should have just stood there and argued with her.

It's not the officers job to argue or debate with her. He is there to respond with appropriate force to ensure public safety.

He's also head to toe in body armor, and carrying a riot shield, and like has more physical strength due to his much higher body mass.

He must have a very small dick to be so threatened by her as to pepper spray he in the face let alone directly in the mouth. The appropriate response would have been to push back harder on his shield.


Clearly the problem wasn't what she was saying or how she was saying it, it was her immediate threat to destroy the entire city due to a lack of near-death incapacitation.

Don't blame the cops...how would you feel if you sat around all day writing tickets for speeding and broken parking lights, and no chance to unleash any of your weaponry on anyone?  I mean, everywhere they go people are putting away bongs and acting nervous.  The only people they can trust to relax around them are other cops!

Please, think of the bored, trigger-happy cops.  If you care about dead kids in CT and starving kids in Africa, you have to care about these heavily armed and armored policemen and their emotional needs, too.
 
2012-12-22 11:22:53 AM  
Oh, I get it now.

It's Christmas and we need to start doing what the police say.

My bad.
 
2012-12-22 11:23:09 AM  
Came for the photoshops, leaving disappointed.
 
2012-12-22 11:25:10 AM  
If I would have had a can of that stuff when living with the ex........

Peace bliss,,,so on.
 
2012-12-22 11:28:24 AM  

kwame: Raharu: kwame: Raharu: I bet that officer felt very Threatened by her.

Good point. He should have just stood there and argued with her.

It's not the officers job to argue or debate with her. He is there to respond with appropriate force to ensure public safety.

He's also head to toe in body armor, and carrying a riot shield, and like has more physical strength due to his much higher body mass.

He must have a very small dick to be so threatened by her as to pepper spray he in the face let alone directly in the mouth. The appropriate response would have been to push back harder on his shield.

You're missing the point. He tells her to do something. She refuses. At that point, in a crowd outnumbering law enforcement, she absolutely is a threat.





Was she throwing rocks, punches, molotovs? Was anyone else in the crowd, had there been any signs of rioting?


Was the situation generally calm until the officers escalated by showing up armed and in body armor?
 
2012-12-22 11:29:42 AM  
Wish I wasn't posting from my phone. I want to post a picture of Homer saying "mmmm incapacitating."
 
2012-12-22 11:31:27 AM  

lordjupiter: Ok, so let me get it straight...there's NOTHING wrong with the system or the government and these smelly hippies need to shut up (to hell with their rights under the 1st Amendment) and just DO WHAT THE GOVERNMENT/COPS SAY ... but the government is also oppressive and can't be trusted because they'll send the police and military after us any day now, so Tea Partiers need unlimited guns (2nd Amendment) to protect themselves from that same government....that they also protested against....but that they support when macing hippies....but don't trust.....but that doesn't mean the hippies are right....or something.


The only good hippy is a maced hippy.
 
2012-12-22 11:32:02 AM  

Animatronik: That's because they didn't fight with the police, get a mouthful of pepper spray, and a fine./I have no sympathy with angry rioters because you can hold peaceful demonstrations in the U.S. and we have free elections. If ppl really were oppressed here, it would be different.


The fact is that the teabaggers protests are more like parades, complete with colonialist cosplay, while the occutards prefer the "booze up and riot" style of protesting.

Also, the teabaggers have guns, while the occutards get foaming-at-the-mouth offended at the mere mention of guns. So if the police did descend on the teabagger parade, one of them might get shot, and the frontline officers would rather not risk it as long as the teabaggers don't mess with them (which they don't, because the police also have guns).

/the occutards would probably be a lot more respected if they would just clean up after themselves
//but their whole point is to prove the US is filthy and corrupt, and the universal progressive debate strategy is to prove it true by spreading filth and corruption themselves
 
2012-12-22 11:32:34 AM  

Esn: For some reason, things like this never happened at the Tea Party rallies. I wonder why.

The Tea Partiers acted all hurt and oppressed, but they were never actually hurt or oppressed.


I can't stand the tea party groups, but their rallies had the proper permits and dispersed if ordered. Thus, the police never had to get involved. The Occupy movement was pretty much the exact opposite. Pepper spray is not a surprising outcome.
 
2012-12-22 11:34:17 AM  
That just became my favorite image of the "occupy" childishness.
 
2012-12-22 11:34:54 AM  
I lol'd at the Brazers shoop. Adding a Brazzers logo to anything instantly makes it 8.5x funnier, it's science
 
2012-12-22 11:39:21 AM  
judge: "I will dismiss this case if you are able to tell me what you were actually protesting or what the Occupy movement was actually about"

coont: "HERPDERP 99 PERCENT"

judge: *gavel*
 
2012-12-22 11:39:31 AM  

SuperDuper28: Cop tells you to do something reasonable and in compliance
You refuse
Cop tells you again
You refuse again and ratchet up the disregard and you'll get a face full of pepper spray

I realize most of you are young and duty bound to hate police for ruining you're buzz but this is a common sense life lesson. The cop is there doing the job they're paid to. It's the mouthy biatch who is the person doing wrong in the picture


I'm not young, I'm boring, don't use drugs, don't speed, enjoy my beer safely at home when I'm in for the night, and in general just not at all any sort of trouble maker. Cops have never ruined my buzz, yet I can see plain as day that there is a lot of corruption in our police forces. If I were on a jury and it was the defendant's word against a cop's, I would probably believe the defendant.
 
2012-12-22 11:41:49 AM  
redalexandriava.files.wordpress.com
 
ows
2012-12-22 11:42:07 AM  
the goggles, they do nothing!!!!
 
2012-12-22 11:43:45 AM  
This is why "gun nuts" are so "crazy" over not having their guns taken away, just so you know. On the odd chance that they might have to use them to stop the government from doing this more and more. Keep demanding we ban them though, I hear pepper spray is an acquired taste.
 
2012-12-22 11:46:33 AM  
First thread i read this morning with me cup of coffee and I must say, it made it a good one.
 
2012-12-22 11:48:16 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-22 11:49:25 AM  
Listen, folks... I said it once, you wrote it down..

This is the end.. because..

If someone is robbing you of $260 in the street - ur a fool, but he , he is a thief.

Sooo.. let me see..
He is a thief.
This thief isnt a judge.
This system is not good.
What isn't good is useless.
Useless stuff do not last long, not in the real world.

(or in a few words: a chain is as strong as its weakest link, get rid of him, if you can)

Q.E.D
 
2012-12-22 11:51:06 AM  
Don't immediately follow the pointless request of a militarized cop?

That's an assault with a pain spray.

It's still not clear to me why pepper spray isn't banned under the Chem Weapons Convention.
 
2012-12-22 11:51:34 AM  

WhoopAssWayne: Zuccotti Park showed us all exactly what happens when the freeloading liberals are left to their own devices:

*) Went straight to an unelected oligarchy, completely bypassing democratically elected leaders. The people who had control of the (Wells Fargo, heh) bank account were the leaders.

*) Third world sanitation and the predictable spread of preventable disease.

*) Violence, rape, antisemitism, and racism.

*) 'some are more equal than others' nomenklatura with at least 3 separate classes of people: the oligarchy, the commoners, and the takers, with more on the way.

*) Zero self-sustainability, just waiting around for food handouts, etc.

Yes, the Liberal Utopia, all held together by a common hatred for the people who actually pay taxes and and contribute to society.


Wait, liberals are the ones who hate paying taxes now?

I thought liberals were the ones who wanted more taxes to pay for universal health care and a repeal of tax cuts for the wealthy and more taxes from the top
2%?

It's almost like you're so full of shiat that it's coming out of your mouth.
 
2012-12-22 11:54:39 AM  
Gotta' love one of the comments at the website. " I wonder if her asshole burned the next day."
 
2012-12-22 11:56:02 AM  
Would that cop be brave enough to do it against an enemy ?
 
2012-12-22 11:57:37 AM  
Hey libs, that is what happens when you wish for an all-powerful nanny state and the destruction of the constitution. "but I only rally against and try to destroy the parts of the constitution I personally don't like!", you might say. Doesn't matter. You destroy some of it (like maybe the second amendment), you allow for it's wholesale destruction. Enjoy your brutality, wars, indefinite detentions, gropings, kill lists, etc - its what you wanted. Don't pretend you didn't know it, or ask forgiveness. We warned toy of the ultimate outcome.
 
2012-12-22 11:59:04 AM  

Raharu: kwame: Raharu: kwame: Raharu: I bet that officer felt very Threatened by her.

Good point. He should have just stood there and argued with her.

It's not the officers job to argue or debate with her. He is there to respond with appropriate force to ensure public safety.

He's also head to toe in body armor, and carrying a riot shield, and like has more physical strength due to his much higher body mass.

He must have a very small dick to be so threatened by her as to pepper spray he in the face let alone directly in the mouth. The appropriate response would have been to push back harder on his shield.

You're missing the point. He tells her to do something. She refuses. At that point, in a crowd outnumbering law enforcement, she absolutely is a threat.




Was she throwing rocks, punches, molotovs? Was anyone else in the crowd, had there been any signs of rioting?


Was the situation generally calm until the officers escalated by showing up armed and in body armor?


Irrelevant.

You don't get it, do you? Law enforcement officer tells you to do something. You do it. If you have a problem with what he told you do, you leave. You want to stand your ground? Enjoy the consequence.
 
2012-12-22 12:00:13 PM  

TofuTheAlmighty: Don't immediately follow the pointless request of a militarized cop?

That's an assault with a pain spray.

It's still not clear to me why pepper spray isn't banned under the Chem Weapons Convention.


Hmm, maybe you should read up on what real chemical weapons do to a person and then you might understand.
 
2012-12-22 12:03:28 PM  
This was excessive use of force by one lone nut cop and it's proven by the fact that all of his cop buddies didn't pull out their pepper spray cans and cut loose on the other protesters. The cop and the city got lucky that the judge backed him up.
 
2012-12-22 12:05:28 PM  
What you don't see in the picture is the commuter train the Occupiers were blocking in downtown. The police told them to move so the train could come through and they ignored the reasonable request.

/no sympathy
 
2012-12-22 12:07:19 PM  

Shadowknight: Nothing like a human shield with a mild resemblance to Hermione Granger.


2.bp.blogspot.comthaiintelligentnews.files.wordpress.comimg.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-22 12:07:45 PM  
It looks more like she is doing some kind of banshee scream or canary cry to me
 
2012-12-22 12:08:46 PM  
OWS was a joke, the protesters were violent and this woman get exactly what was coming to her.
 
2012-12-22 12:11:59 PM  
Under the C... Nine... C-9 everyone.

Under the B... eleven... B-11 everyone.

Again under the C... thirteen... C-13...
 
2012-12-22 12:13:32 PM  

kwame: Nem Wan: A court of law has a predetermined bias in favor of the law and therefore someone who disagrees with the fundamental premise that the law should be followed is not going to get a fair hearing.

Or: you don't get a mouthful of pepper spray when you follow the directives of law enforcement.


What if you CAN'T follow their orders? Like, they tell you to disperse, and you can go anywhere because there's, like, 100 peopel behind and around you?

/guess she should have teleported away
 
2012-12-22 12:14:05 PM  

kwame: You don't get it, do you? Law enforcement officer tells you to do something. You do it. If you have a problem with what he told you do, you leave. You want to stand your ground? Enjoy the consequence.


Meh, people are starting to understand. The citizens of the U.S. only shot and killed like 50 something police officers this year........down from previous years.
Link

and only 6 were stabbed and or beaten to death.

Link

Link

The american public should be proud, we killed something like 23 less police officers this year than in 2011.
 
2012-12-22 12:18:49 PM  

Fark Rye For Many Whores: Shadowknight: Nothing like a human shield with a mild resemblance to Hermione Granger.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 320x306][thaiintelligentnews.files.wordpress.com image 370x413][img.photobucket.com image 386x409]


Does she distend her jaw in the forth picture?
 
2012-12-22 12:19:12 PM  

kwame: You're missing the point. He tells her to do something. She refuses.


What, exactly was this order? To leave the area? Kinda hard for her to do when there's a crowd around her. Thus, it was not a reasonable order.
 
2012-12-22 12:22:45 PM  

fredklein: kwame: You're missing the point. He tells her to do something. She refuses.

What, exactly was this order? To leave the area? Kinda hard for her to do when there's a crowd around her. Thus, it was not a reasonable order.


They were trying to move the protestors off the train tracks they were blocking, so the trains out of frame full of commuters could move through downtown. Pretty unreasonable.
 
2012-12-22 12:24:35 PM  
You have to love how the conservatives in this thread are now acting like they were ever for less police and more civil rights. "YOU SIAD MOAR GUBERNMNET! HA!"
 
2012-12-22 12:28:13 PM  
You know what else the tea party has? Guns. Occupy protestors tend to be fairly nonviolent. We haven't "rioted" but suffered the effects of many police riots. We have been beat with clubs, tear gassed, flash grenades, shot with less lethal weapons, and pepper spray. Not to mention being chased, run over, and run down; by police on foot, bikes, horses, motorcycles, cars, vans, and large transports with militarized men hanging off the side. Those of us with feet on the ground feel as if we have been through battle and if what has been happening for the past year is a sign of exactly how dangerous the police state has become, and makes us all wonder what will be next. Simple protests getting attacked by swarms of heavily armed "soldiers" is terrifying real. Occupy changed the conversation so much the banks were running scared and donated millions to the police forces all around the country. Over one million people pulled their money out of banks in short time lazy tear due to occupy. Fraudclosure mills across the country are being exposes. Robosigning, forged documents to screw homeowners, not to mention made to fail loans, where lenders actually lied about income to give the buyer the loan. Loans are sold bank to bank, houses are stolen through confused or corrupt courts. For a year we have been fighting these injustices while facing many ourselves. Don't let the trivial matter of his being attacked over and over story you from participating in a way that doesn't include direct action as there are plenty of ways to be involved. Its not a protest its a worldwide movement.
 
2012-12-22 12:31:05 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: fredklein: kwame: You're missing the point. He tells her to do something. She refuses.

What, exactly was this order? To leave the area? Kinda hard for her to do when there's a crowd around her. Thus, it was not a reasonable order.

They were trying to move the protestors off the train tracks they were blocking, so the trains out of frame full of commuters could move through downtown. Pretty unreasonable.


You sidestepped the question: How could she have moved, with a crowd all around her??

A: She couldn't. Thus, the order to move was unreasonable, since she physically could not obey. It'd be like a cop ordering you to flap your arms and fly away- it's impossible. Thus, she was pepper-sprayed for not obeying an order she couldn't obey.

Unreasonable force. QED

Second, what good does spraying her int he face do? If I was sprayed like that, I'd probably collapse and lie there clawing at my eyes/mouth/nose. An ambulance would need to be called, etc. All this takes time, and... blocks the trains for longer. It's like booting a car that's parked blocking traffic- no one can drive it away since it's booted, so it stays there blocking traffic even longer.
 
2012-12-22 12:36:22 PM  

AbbeySomeone: Shadowknight: BunkyBrewman: ...or he's trying to pull her back.

You believe your reality, I'll believe mine.
In truth, I know he wasn't holding her there as a shield.  A camera catches a moment in time, and he could have been pulling her back, holding her, giving her a back rub, or any number of things at the time.  It's just funny to think of some guy going "oh shiat!" and ducking behind the nearest tiny woman.

As someone familiar with protester and police behavior in that city I'm not getting a kick out of this.

/he was trying to pull her away
//PDX women are mouthy b*tches
///native


AW hipster. Were you protesting before it was cool?
 
2012-12-22 12:37:12 PM  
So, the fact that the crowd behind her wouldn't let her disperse forced her to move FORWARD and scream right at the cop brandishing pepper spray. Got it.

/cognitive dissonance at its finest.
 
2012-12-22 12:37:57 PM  

Saberus Terras: She sued for excessive force? I think for an officer in riot gear, pepper spray is the least lethal weapon he had, because words have clearly failed.

Not trying to support the police or any corruption therein, just an opinion. She's lucky she got cheeto'd over beat with a baton or shot. Now if he'd knocked her down and sprayed her from a few inches away, I'd agree that's too far, as the stream from those canisters can pierce the skin or eye at that close.


No kidding. Physically wrangling people into subdual is VERY risky. You get broken wrists, sprained ankles, scraped elbow, concussion, internal bruising. It's unpredictable to predict how it's gonna go down, and takes like 3 people to take down one wildly resistive person in the safest way.

This sort of riot control is NOT a new problem. You didn't invent the idea of acting as a crowd and defying police, and being a young female does not mean they can't touch you. Prior to pepper spray and CS, the options were baton-to-the-leg/knee/head, "rubber bullets" (baton rounds)- these things had a limited window of low-harm subdual, they'd either do nothing or break your arm/leg/rib or rupture an eyeball, or, also, the fire hose. And later shock-stun devices, but these never really did "work" well in the field on a crowd.

I've no judgement on the message of the protest one way or another. That's not the point. I've just got to cut off sympathy at some point if you form a crowd knowing you're gonna get into a confrontation with police, get in a confrontation, and get handled by-the-book in the least damaging protocol possible, sustain no lasting injury, and scream "brutality".
 
2012-12-22 12:39:20 PM  
If the cops want a crowd to disperse, they need to pepper-spray the BACK of the crowd, let them run away, then spray the next row/layer of people, etc, not spray the FRONT row, who literally cannot move.

/but remember, smart people are allowed to be cops
 
2012-12-22 12:40:01 PM  
Dammit

"smart people aren't allowed to be cops"
 
2012-12-22 12:40:30 PM  
ZAZ
The judge had to find her guilty to protect police from her lawsuit.

She could still probably sue. Police protocol usually forbids (on paper, anyway) the use of pepper spray or other less-lethal tools or techniques unless the person is being in some way forceful or violent. Merely disobeying is not supposed to justify the use of pepper spray, tear gas, tazers, billy clubs, or even necessarily "pain compliance" (i.e. torture). Of course, they do it all the time and judges are totally cool with it because law and order and therefore
 
2012-12-22 12:42:14 PM  

fredklein: You sidestepped the question: How could she have moved, with a crowd all around her??

A: She couldn't. Thus, the order to move was unreasonable, since she physically could not obey. It'd be like a cop ordering you to flap your arms and fly away- it's impossible. Thus, she was pepper-sprayed for not obeying an order she couldn't obey.

Unreasonable force. QED

Second, what good does spraying her int he face do? If I was sprayed like that, I'd probably collapse and lie there clawing at my eyes/mouth/nose. An ambulance would need to be called, etc. All this takes time, and... blocks the trains for longer. It's like booting a car that's parked blocking traffic- no one can drive it away since it's booted, so it stays there blocking traffic even longer.


Must be a miracle, because moving people that are lying on the ground gagging on pepper spray can't possibly be easier than moving people that are actively attacking the people telling them to move.

/"but you can't prove they were attacking!"
//and you can't prove they weren't, so go right ahead and believe the whole world is out to get you
///your paranoia will become a self-fulfilling prophecy soon enough
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-12-22 12:44:30 PM  
RanDomino

If the claim is excessive force or false arrest, violation of protocol is not conclusive. The judge wiped out the false arrest claim by ruling she did something wrong. The finding that she disobeyed police orders also makes an excessive force claim very difficult. At least it does in my area. The Ninth Circuit might be more liberal than the First.
 
2012-12-22 12:45:15 PM  

Amos Quito: [i1121.photobucket.com image 383x222]


i.imgur.com

ftfy

(Your text didn't make any sense at all)
 
2012-12-22 12:47:11 PM  
kwame
You don't get it, do you? Law enforcement officer tells you to do something. You do it. If you have a problem with what he told you do, you leave. You want to stand your ground? Enjoy the consequence.

static.desktopnexus.com
 
2012-12-22 12:49:46 PM  
Tatterdemalian
people that are actively attacking the people telling them to move.

uh huh, and when did this happen at the protest in question?
 
2012-12-22 12:53:49 PM  

Tatterdemalian: fredklein: You sidestepped the question: How could she have moved, with a crowd all around her??

A: She couldn't. Thus, the order to move was unreasonable, since she physically could not obey. It'd be like a cop ordering you to flap your arms and fly away- it's impossible. Thus, she was pepper-sprayed for not obeying an order she couldn't obey.

Unreasonable force. QED

Second, what good does spraying her int he face do? If I was sprayed like that, I'd probably collapse and lie there clawing at my eyes/mouth/nose. An ambulance would need to be called, etc. All this takes time, and... blocks the trains for longer. It's like booting a car that's parked blocking traffic- no one can drive it away since it's booted, so it stays there blocking traffic even longer.

Must be a miracle, because moving people that are lying on the ground gagging on pepper spray can't possibly be easier than moving people that are actively attacking the people telling them to move.


You need to pick up and carry each and every person lying on the ground, using 3-4 cops each. And hope they aren't seriously hurt. A person who hits his head while falling (after getting pepper sprayed) could have serious head/neck injuries, and in that case, being yanked around by some ham-fisted cops could conceivably kill them.
 
2012-12-22 12:55:11 PM  
Good.

She got what she deserved PLUS it's gonna cost her a few bucks.

And this FTFA: 'he photo became an iconic image that many will remember '

'Iconic'? According to who/m? Some dipshiate reporter working the police bear?

Idiot.
 
2012-12-22 12:57:16 PM  
I don't see what the big deal is. It's basically just a food additive.
 
2012-12-22 01:00:27 PM  
Came for shoop of woman with her face in sprinkler.

Leaving mildly disappoint

/there was still some funny stuff in this thread
 
2012-12-22 01:01:01 PM  

Lizsavage: You know what else the tea party has? Guns. Occupy protestors tend to be fairly nonviolent. We haven't "rioted" but suffered the effects of many police riots. We have been beat with clubs, tear gassed, flash grenades, shot with less lethal weapons, and pepper spray. Not to mention being chased, run over, and run down; by police on foot, bikes, horses, motorcycles, cars, vans, and large transports with militarized men hanging off the side..


Just because a protest is "nonviolent" does not entitle it to do anything. Without regard to the righteousness of any specific cause, a sit-in proceeding into obstruction and trespassing will get a response. I do respect when people are willing to sacrifice for a cause and a message.

I'm just not impressed when protesters insist they can't be touched and are all outraged when any degree of force is used and any force is illegal assault and brutality and assume there's no legal way a crowd can be checked. Or that because it's a political message rather than a soccer riot, anything and everything done is automatically entitled to Free Speech protection- it's not.

That's not to say that "orders to disperse" have never been given without lawful basis, or unreasonable force has never been used, and sometimes brutality is employed proudly by frustrated law enforcement, and it IS wrong when it goes down that way. But pepper spray into a protest after being given a lawful order to disperse is expected and the least harmful thing they could do to assert themselves. Perhaps the message is something that NEEDS to happen, like ending segregation, perhaps it's a stupid Free Hat thing, that's up to individuals to interpret.
 
2012-12-22 01:11:38 PM  
There's a big difference between spraying/tasing/whatever because there's a danger vs. to get "compliance." It's the compliance one that upsets people. However, don't hate the player, hate the game: what's that department's policy?

She's lucky she wasn't in P.G. County, MD. Department policy is to beat you with batons if you look at them crosswise. Or just because they feel like it.

/been tased before, as a demo
//not that bad
///for one second, anyway
 
2012-12-22 01:14:44 PM  
images2.wikia.nocookie.net

I need to ask you to stop. That..."protesting"...is making people nervous.
 
2012-12-22 01:15:24 PM  
Hat 's

douchebag/hater: Good.

She got what she deserved PLUS it's gonna cost her a few bucks.

And this FTFA: 'he photo became an iconic image that many will remember '

'Iconic'? According to who/m? Some dipshiate reporter working the police bear?

Idiot.


What's a "police bear"? Is that like the cop from the Village People? Or is it an actual bear, like a super-scary police dog? Neither sounds very good.
 
2012-12-22 01:30:21 PM  

flami: Amos Quito: [i1121.photobucket.com image 383x222]

[i.imgur.com image 383x222]

ftfy

(Your text didn't make any sense at all)



Dankeschön!
 
2012-12-22 01:34:22 PM  

Shadowknight: It's just funny to think of some guy going "oh shiat!" and ducking behind the nearest tiny woman.


That seems to be Obama's modus operandi.
 
2012-12-22 01:35:36 PM  

QuickDirtyOS: Would that cop be brave enough to do it against an enemy ?


He's pepper-spraying one, isn't he?
 
2012-12-22 01:35:45 PM  

danwinkler: Hey libs, that is what happens when you wish for an all-powerful nanny state and the destruction of the constitution. "but I only rally against and try to destroy the parts of the constitution I personally don't like!", you might say. Doesn't matter. You destroy some of it (like maybe the second amendment), you allow for it's wholesale destruction. Enjoy your brutality, wars, indefinite detentions, gropings, kill lists, etc - its what you wanted. Don't pretend you didn't know it, or ask forgiveness. We warned toy of the ultimate outcome.


As long as they start doing it to the right wingers for a change, all in.  Far more deserving than this dumb college kid.
 
2012-12-22 01:41:52 PM  

Esn: For some reason, things like this never happened at the Tea Party rallies. I wonder why.

The Tea Partiers acted all hurt and oppressed, but they were never actually hurt or oppressed.


The Tea Partiers largely behaved like adults who had jobs and businesses to go back to at the end of the day.

The Occupy people largely behaved like trust fund kids and social rejects who faced no consequence other than having to go back to Mom's basement.
 
2012-12-22 01:42:39 PM  

Lizsavage: You know what else the tea party has? Guns. Occupy protestors tend to be fairly nonviolent. We haven't "rioted" but suffered the effects of many police riots. We have been beat with clubs, tear gassed, flash grenades, shot with less lethal weapons, and pepper spray. Not to mention being chased, run over, and run down; by police on foot, bikes, horses, motorcycles, cars, vans, and large transports with militarized men hanging off the side. Those of us with feet on the ground feel as if we have been through battle and if what has been happening for the past year is a sign of exactly how dangerous the police state has become, and makes us all wonder what will be next. Simple protests getting attacked by swarms of heavily armed "soldiers" is terrifying real. Occupy changed the conversation so much the banks were running scared and donated millions to the police forces all around the country. Over one million people pulled their money out of banks in short time lazy tear due to occupy. Fraudclosure mills across the country are being exposes. Robosigning, forged documents to screw homeowners, not to mention made to fail loans, where lenders actually lied about income to give the buyer the loan. Loans are sold bank to bank, houses are stolen through confused or corrupt courts. For a year we have been fighting these injustices while facing many ourselves. Don't let the trivial matter of his being attacked over and over story you from participating in a way that doesn't include direct action as there are plenty of ways to be involved. Its not a protest its a worldwide movement.


I live in a neighborhood that got a full winter's worth of Occupy camping out last year, and has had about a protest a month since.  All identification with #Occupy (I am not a 1 percenter after all) flew out the window at about the first smashy smashy on buildings just blocks from my home.  They were breaking car windows too -- people who just happened to park unwittingly near a protest point that day.

There were also assaults by Occupy overnight campers against people passing by.  Nothing fatal but some fist fights.  At least one rape attempt too.

Occupy started out with high minded morals and descended into mindless violence and smash-the-state crap.  It forces people to take sides, and guess what -- most people took the side of "please stop breaking sh*t near my home, if that means police mix it up with you, I guess thats better."  You completely lost the actual middle class you claim you're fighting for.

Cops are asshats, no disputing.  But you guys are often worse.  Go home and complain to your parents, we're just people going about our daily lives, going to and from work.

Anarchy seems to mean if you are angry you get to break other peoples stuff, on some convoluted logic that everyone is to blame.  Looks like petulant children throwing a fit more than anything.

And the police are your parents, I guess.

Go home, grow up, live some years and get back to me.  Smashing sh*t that other people worked hard to build or repair or buy doesn't win you any friends.  It just makes people pushed away from your cause.  And will probably hate you forever, some of us.
 
2012-12-22 01:45:59 PM  

Generation_D: I live in a neighborhood that got a full winter's worth of Occupy camping out last year, and has had about a protest a month since. All identification with #Occupy (I am not a 1 percenter after all) flew out the window at about the first smashy smashy on buildings just blocks from my home. They were breaking car windows too -- people who just happened to park unwittingly near a protest point that day.


And, of course, the ENTIRE movement is responsible for the actions of a few individuals.
 
2012-12-22 01:46:10 PM  

Theaetetus:

Annnnd we see the real justification in your eyes. Violence is okay, if someone is female and speaking.


It is if your name is Patrick Moran.
 
wee
2012-12-22 01:48:56 PM  

QuickDirtyOS: ur a fool


Eat a bag of dicks.
 
2012-12-22 01:50:44 PM  

Esn: Animatronik: Esn: For some reason, things like this never happened at the Tea Party rallies. I wonder why.

The Tea Partiers acted all hurt and oppressed, but they were never actually hurt or oppressed.

That's because they didn't fight with the police, get a mouthful of pepper spray, and a fine.

/I have no sympathy with angry rioters because you can hold peaceful demonstrations in the U.S. and we have free elections. If ppl really were oppressed here, it would be different.

The Tea Partiers were left alone because their interests coincided with those of the elite.


Mega Elites: Democratic Party. Regular Elites: Republican Party. Quit pretending Democrats don't consider themselves elites.. it's disingenuous


STRYPERSWINE:
[redalexandriava.files.wordpress.com image 720x468]

poignant


jehovahs witness protection:
This is what opening a can of STFU might look like.

COMPLETELY lol'd irl...
 
2012-12-22 02:04:46 PM  
Oznog
I'm just not impressed when protesters insist they can't be touched and are all outraged when any degree of force is used and any force is illegal assault and brutality and assume there's no legal way a crowd can be checked.

No one's saying that. If the police hadn't used violence to respond to nonviolence then hardly anyone would be complaining. Instead, they initiated force and inflicted pain just to compel compliance of people who were no threat.

Or that because it's a political message rather than a soccer riot, anything and everything done is automatically entitled to Free Speech protection- it's not.

The "free speech" defense of Occupy was half-hearted at best. I don't think people really know why they occupied.


Generation_D
I live in a neighborhood that got a full winter's worth of Occupy camping out last year

Let me guess: You live in a new apartment building in a cheap neighborhood.
 
2012-12-22 02:07:59 PM  
I'm all for seeing both sides of an argument, but it's pretty clear by now that the #Occupy movement failed, and that failure was mostly its own fault. What you guys meant to be a noble, world-changing (or at least america-changing) movement became a huge self-entitled temper tantrum that lost you the support of anyone who was even a little bit on the fence, because you didn't want to do anything that the Evul Empyre had done. You know, like organize, or plan ahead, or have leaders, or structure, or sustainability. Or hygiene, apparently. You'd rather look cool and lose than be practical and win.

You guys failed. I wish you'd learn from your mistakes, in case there's another opportunity in the future.
 
2012-12-22 02:10:28 PM  
All of you in the Politics tab that are Statists/Authoritarians (95% of you I'd say) are getting the government you demanded, so STFU and GBTW or you'll eat pepper spray too.

We can all one day chant along with you!

The government can do no wrong.
The government takes care of us.
It is the ultimate patriotic act to pay taxes, the higher the better.
I love Big Brother.
 
2012-12-22 02:11:04 PM  

Amos Quito: The First Amendment.

Now with Peppery Goodness.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


That part in bold there would be why the Occupy people keep running afoul of the police since what they are doing is quite often not "peaceably". There would be a reason that the Tea Party rallies don't have these problems and the Occupy rallies do... and no its not because of some evil fascist empire keeping the Occupy people down.
 
2012-12-22 02:40:32 PM  

Saberus Terras: She sued for excessive force? I think for an officer in riot gear, pepper spray is the least lethal weapon he had, because words have clearly failed.

Not trying to support the police or any corruption therein, just an opinion. She's lucky she got cheeto'd over beat with a baton or shot. Now if he'd knocked her down and sprayed her from a few inches away, I'd agree that's too far, as the stream from those canisters can pierce the skin or eye at that close.


I think her premise is that a guy in full riot gear  maybe doesn't have a lot to fear from a dinky unarmed woman and should have just ignored her for the few minutes it took for the other protester to drag her off. That riot gear is maybe half of what my self-defence teacher used during our class, with women about twice that girl's size, and he felt nothing, so she has a point.

/A good half of stopping a fight is planting your ass in front of one person, saying 'no you may not do X' and ignoring any attempt to do anything else. Only move or react if they're doing something that clearly leads to engagement.
//The police are too quick to forget that. Understandable, given their training, but we should maybe try and train them a little better.
 
2012-12-22 02:45:23 PM  

fredklein: Generation_D: I live in a neighborhood that got a full winter's worth of Occupy camping out last year, and has had about a protest a month since. All identification with #Occupy (I am not a 1 percenter after all) flew out the window at about the first smashy smashy on buildings just blocks from my home. They were breaking car windows too -- people who just happened to park unwittingly near a protest point that day.

And, of course, the ENTIRE movement is responsible for the actions of a few individuals.


Of the ones that show up and protest, no, not everyone is responsible directly.  But by showing up and providing human shield for black bloc, you really kind of are directly responsible, yeah.
 
2012-12-22 02:48:21 PM  

RanDomino: Oznog
I'm just not impressed when protesters insist they can't be touched and are all outraged when any degree of force is used and any force is illegal assault and brutality and assume there's no legal way a crowd can be checked.

No one's saying that. If the police hadn't used violence to respond to nonviolence then hardly anyone would be complaining. Instead, they initiated force and inflicted pain just to compel compliance of people who were no threat.

Or that because it's a political message rather than a soccer riot, anything and everything done is automatically entitled to Free Speech protection- it's not.

The "free speech" defense of Occupy was half-hearted at best. I don't think people really know why they occupied.


Generation_D
I live in a neighborhood that got a full winter's worth of Occupy camping out last year

Let me guess: You live in a new apartment building in a cheap neighborhood.


Holy crap you're smart.

Lets turn it around.  Tell me where you live, and I'll get some friends and show up and break the nearest business windows to your home, frighten your pets, maybe take out some car windows along your street.

Will I then get to accuse you of not living in an appropriate enough dwelling to have a political say?

For some reason you think because something is downtown, you have a right to smash it because it is where traditionally, the protests have been held.

I say we've had enough.  Move that sh*t out to suburbia, its where most/all of the kids doing it grew up, its where it would be nearer your families homes.
 
2012-12-22 02:50:39 PM  
This is what usually happens when I attempt to reason with people supporting protesters.

I *live* in the area you are breaking things in and protesting in.  And have since you were probably born.

I think I know what the hell is going on when you guys show up from out of town, break crap, get on the news, and then play the victim.  And force cops to have to work overtime, which we all have to pay extra taxes to support.

Seriously, protesting is weak sauce.  Its lame.  It just drives people away from the cause you say you are in favor of, because it is polarizing.

// no fan of the cops, but black bloc bullsh*t is worse.  No pity.
 
2012-12-22 02:55:30 PM  
Hm.  Looks like this issue has already been to the SCOTUS and back.  Lundberg v. County of Humboldt.  The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals (which has jurisdiction over the present case) found that cops are not automatically entitled to pepper-spray non-violent citizens to obtain compliance with a lawful order.  The facts of each case must be weighed by a jury.  Lundberg was tried three times at the district level; hung juries the first two trials.  Citizens finally won.  The last jury awarded damages of $1 per plaintiff.

This woman has a pretty good chance of prevailing based on precedent.  She may have trouble getting a jury that will go along with her damages claim.
 
2012-12-22 03:01:17 PM  
I'm undecided. Give me unedited video of what led up to the incident and what followed and then I'll make a decision. Remember this?

www.trbimg.com

Everything in the news was claiming that they were peaceful protesters and were only blocking the sidewalk. What actually happened and you can see it on the full length video is that the police were removing their tents and some protesters tried to stop them. Those protesters were arrested. When the cops tried to escort them away a group of protesters surrounded them completely blocking them in. They then started to chant "If you let them go we will let you leave."

So I'm a bit skeptical when I hear that protesters were being completely peaceful and doing nothing that deserved pepper spraying.

Short UC Davis highlights

Full 30 minute UC Davis link
 
2012-12-22 03:04:09 PM  
Whoops, forgot to add. NSFW language at a couple points in the recordings.
 
2012-12-22 03:34:53 PM  

kwame: Nem Wan: A court of law has a predetermined bias in favor of the law and therefore someone who disagrees with the fundamental premise that the law should be followed is not going to get a fair hearing.

Or: you don't get a mouthful of pepper spray when you follow the directives of law enforcement.


Ta da! It's magic!
 
2012-12-22 03:36:22 PM  
The Occupy movement is basically a bunch of lazy, stupid, demotivated 20-somethings who are fighting adulthood with every fibre of their bodies.

I know they're lazy, because most are unemployed - if not all.

I know they're stupid because their main concern is having to pay back on a loan. Apparently these uneducated and lazy "kids" - who probably spent more of their college years on binge drinking and homoerotic "experimentation" - do not understand what a basic contract entails.

Congrats, 40-somethings. These are your precious snowflakes, you're helicopter-parented self-entitled lazy dumbf*cks. who YOU raised, not me.

No wonder "men" in their 30's are still living with their parents. No wonder we have these lazy f*cks who refuse to work and refuse to pay back money that THEY borrowed.

There have been a host of organized movements in our history. Never have I read or encountered any "movement" with such a self-serving, self-entitled, useless function as this "occupy" crap, whose main tenant is "Boo-hoo, I don't want to pay back money that was loaned to me in good faith."
 
2012-12-22 03:44:03 PM  

Lizsavage: Those of us with feet on the ground feel as if we have been through battle and if what has been happening for the past year is a sign of exactly how dangerous the police state has become, and makes us all wonder what will be next. Simple protests getting attacked by swarms of heavily armed "soldiers" is terrifying real.


Uh huh. Hardened vets, charging bravely but hopelessly into the clouds of capsaicin. I can see how this past year would seem analogous to the Battle of Verdun. Or, you know, not really.

When the Brute Squad leaves their batons at the station and defaults to live ammunition - like they do in ACTUAL police states - then you can start awarding each other Purple Hearts and Silver Stars. Until then, it's Yellow Moons and Green Clovers.

Generation_D: Occupy started out with high minded morals and descended into mindless violence and smash-the-state crap. It forces people to take sides, and guess what -- most people took the side of "please stop breaking sh*t near my home, if that means police mix it up with you, I guess thats better." You completely lost the actual middle class you claim you're fighting for.


QFT.
 
2012-12-22 03:45:13 PM  
What a wonderful precedent this sets. Women can now be fined because they didn't do what they were told and didn't farking listen. Awesome.
 
2012-12-22 03:48:03 PM  

Noah_Tall: I'm undecided. Give me unedited video of what led up to the incident and what followed and then I'll make a decision. Remember this?

[www.trbimg.com image 580x326]

Everything in the news was claiming that they were peaceful protesters and were only blocking the sidewalk. What actually happened and you can see it on the full length video is that the police were removing their tents and some protesters tried to stop them. Those protesters were arrested. When the cops tried to escort them away a group of protesters surrounded them completely blocking them in. They then started to chant "If you let them go we will let you leave."

So I'm a bit skeptical when I hear that protesters were being completely peaceful and doing nothing that deserved pepper spraying.

Short UC Davis highlights

Full 30 minute UC Davis link


I never knew that. You can actually see the ring of people blocking them in, didn't pay attention to that before
 
2012-12-22 03:48:04 PM  

Noah_Tall: When the cops tried to escort them away a group of protesters surrounded them completely blocking them in.


... blocking their ankles in, you mean.

static5.depositphotos.com
What a "completely blocked in" person may look like.
 
2012-12-22 03:50:57 PM  
Generation_D
// no fan of the cops, but black bloc bullsh*t is worse.

Breaking windows is worse than actively injuring, kidnapping, and robbing human beings.
 
2012-12-22 03:52:16 PM  
Isn't it odd that the same conservative retards who fear a government takeover are the first to cheer when protestors get pepper sprayed, beaten, or otherwise injured for having the audacity to exercise their right to free speech?

/No, wait, it's not odd; it's just indicative of their farking retarded doublethink.
 
2012-12-22 03:56:16 PM  

Pazuzu_the_gargoyle: Esn: For some reason, things like this never happened at the Tea Party rallies. I wonder why.

The Tea Partiers acted all hurt and oppressed, but they were never actually hurt or oppressed.

I can't stand the tea party groups, but their rallies had the proper permits and dispersed if ordered. Thus, the police never had to get involved. The Occupy movement was pretty much the exact opposite. Pepper spray is not a surprising outcome.


Nothing is a surprise in a country where you have to pay a fee to exercise your first amendment rights
 
2012-12-22 04:02:33 PM  

WhoopAssWayne: Zuccotti Park showed us all exactly what happens when the freeloading liberals are left to their own devices:

*) Went straight to an unelected oligarchy, completely bypassing democratically elected leaders. The people who had control of the (Wells Fargo, heh) bank account were the leaders.

*) Third world sanitation and the predictable spread of preventable disease.

*) Violence, rape, antisemitism, and racism.

*) 'some are more equal than others' nomenklatura with at least 3 separate classes of people: the oligarchy, the commoners, and the takers, with more on the way.

*) Zero self-sustainability, just waiting around for food handouts, etc.

Yes, the Liberal Utopia, all held together by a common hatred for the people who actually pay taxes and and contribute to society.


Wow.  That's quite a rich fantasy life you have there.  Have you considered writing a book?
 
2012-12-22 04:09:04 PM  

Tatterdemalian: fredklein: You sidestepped the question: How could she have moved, with a crowd all around her??

A: She couldn't. Thus, the order to move was unreasonable, since she physically could not obey. It'd be like a cop ordering you to flap your arms and fly away- it's impossible. Thus, she was pepper-sprayed for not obeying an order she couldn't obey.

Unreasonable force. QED

Second, what good does spraying her int he face do? If I was sprayed like that, I'd probably collapse and lie there clawing at my eyes/mouth/nose. An ambulance would need to be called, etc. All this takes time, and... blocks the trains for longer. It's like booting a car that's parked blocking traffic- no one can drive it away since it's booted, so it stays there blocking traffic even longer.

Must be a miracle, because moving people that are lying on the ground gagging on pepper spray can't possibly be easier than moving people that are actively attacking the people telling them to move.

/"but you can't prove they were attacking!"
//and you can't prove they weren't, so go right ahead and believe the whole world is out to get you
///your paranoia will become a self-fulfilling prophecy soon enough


she was using Psionic powers wasn't she...  it was those Telekinetic powers she attacked with right?
 
2012-12-22 04:13:26 PM  

One Bad Apple: I don't see what the big deal is. It's basically just a food additive.


Thank you,  Megyn Kelly.
 
2012-12-22 04:22:32 PM  

Noah_Tall: I'm undecided. Give me unedited video of what led up to the incident and what followed and then I'll make a decision. Remember this?

[www.trbimg.com image 580x326]

Everything in the news was claiming that they were peaceful protesters and were only blocking the sidewalk. What actually happened and you can see it on the full length video is that the police were removing their tents and some protesters tried to stop them. Those protesters were arrested. When the cops tried to escort them away a group of protesters surrounded them completely blocking them in. They then started to chant "If you let them go we will let you leave."

So I'm a bit skeptical when I hear that protesters were being completely peaceful and doing nothing that deserved pepper spraying.

Short UC Davis highlights

Full 30 minute UC Davis link


www.internetzculture.com
 
2012-12-22 04:24:34 PM  

Prussian_Roulette: Lizsavage: Those of us with feet on the ground feel as if we have been through battle and if what has been happening for the past year is a sign of exactly how dangerous the police state has become, and makes us all wonder what will be next. Simple protests getting attacked by swarms of heavily armed "soldiers" is terrifying real.

Uh huh. Hardened vets, charging bravely but hopelessly into the clouds of capsaicin. I can see how this past year would seem analogous to the Battle of Verdun. Or, you know, not really.

When the Brute Squad leaves their batons at the station and defaults to live ammunition - like they do in ACTUAL police states - then you can start awarding each other Purple Hearts and Silver Stars. Until then, it's Yellow Moons and Green Clovers

, Purple Horseshoes

Generation_D: Occupy started out with high minded morals and descended into mindless violence and smash-the-state crap. It forces people to take sides, and guess what -- most people took the side of "please stop breaking sh*t near my home, if that means police mix it up with you, I guess thats better." You completely lost the actual middle class you claim you're fighting for.

QFT.


/FTFY
 
2012-12-22 04:33:37 PM  
heh heh heh Facial
 
2012-12-22 04:52:32 PM  

HindiDiscoMonster: Pazuzu_the_gargoyle: Esn: For some reason, things like this never happened at the Tea Party rallies. I wonder why.

The Tea Partiers acted all hurt and oppressed, but they were never actually hurt or oppressed.

I can't stand the tea party groups, but their rallies had the proper permits and dispersed if ordered. Thus, the police never had to get involved. The Occupy movement was pretty much the exact opposite. Pepper spray is not a surprising outcome.

Nothing is a surprise in a country where you have to pay a fee to exercise your first amendment rights


You don't need to pay a fee if you do it from the comfort of your own home, but once you take it onto public or other's private property you need to get approval. If Occupy had simply occupied their parents front yards we wouldn't be hearing any of this.
 
2012-12-22 04:59:47 PM  
It's the facial money shot... $260, to be precise.
 
2012-12-22 05:32:37 PM  

Tat'dGreaser: ou can actually see the ring of people blocking them in


"Blocking them in"? All the cops needed to do was step over them. Sheesh.
 
2012-12-22 05:48:00 PM  

fredklein: "Blocking them in"? All the cops needed to do was step over them. Sheesh.


Would you put your testicles directly over people who have time and time again said they hated you?
 
2012-12-22 05:55:16 PM  
FarkerinMN
If Occupy had simply occupied their parents front yards we wouldn't be hearing any of this.

Exactly.
 
2012-12-22 06:07:44 PM  
cdn.theatlanticwire.com
 
2012-12-22 06:09:43 PM  

Amos Quito: [media.katu.com image 660x454]

And they call the ones on the left "occupiers".



I think they call themselves that.  The rest of us call them bums.
 
2012-12-22 06:27:40 PM  

Tat'dGreaser: fredklein: "Blocking them in"? All the cops needed to do was step over them. Sheesh.

Would you put your testicles directly over people who have time and time again said they hated you?


If I had a taser, pepper spray, a gun, a nightstick, and a huge bunch of my friends watching out for me and was wearing riot armor?? I wouldn't worry about it too much.

If it bothers, step over the line of people BETWEEN the people. Testicles are over no one.
 
2012-12-22 06:38:10 PM  

fredklein: If I had a taser, pepper spray, a gun, a nightstick, and a huge bunch of my friends watching out for me and was wearing riot armor?? I wouldn't worry about it too much.

If it bothers, step over the line of people BETWEEN the people. Testicles are over no one.


You'd rather they beat them with batons in order to get through?
 
2012-12-22 06:52:31 PM  

fredklein: If the cops want a crowd to disperse, they need to pepper-spray the BACK of the crowd, let them run away, then spray the next row/layer of people, etc, not spray the FRONT row, who literally cannot move.

/but remember, smart people are allowed to be cops


Except if you spray the back row, which direction will they run? Hint: most people will reflexively back away from the threat, not charge through it--but if you spray the back of the crowd, their backing up would just run them into the main body of the crowd. And how will you apply the spray? If you have a "front" and a "back" to the crowd, then you do not have them surrounded...launch tear gas grenades in an arc above the crowd, so they land in the back?
 
2012-12-22 07:00:11 PM  

ZAZ: The judge had to find her guilty to protect police from her lawsuit


www.plasticjungle.com
 
2012-12-22 07:00:51 PM  
Something to entertain the bloodthirsty in this thread.
/and that was, I understand...a soccer riot?
 
2012-12-22 07:05:14 PM  

Tat'dGreaser: fredklein: If I had a taser, pepper spray, a gun, a nightstick, and a huge bunch of my friends watching out for me and was wearing riot armor?? I wouldn't worry about it too much.

If it bothers, step over the line of people BETWEEN the people. Testicles are over no one.

You'd rather they beat them with batons in order to get through?


What? I never said that. I said it wouldn't be troubled stepping over them (as you put it "put your testicles directly over people who have time and time again said they hated you") if I was so armed and armored.
 
Esn
2012-12-22 07:11:14 PM  

Abox: Amos Quito: [media.katu.com image 660x454]

And they call the ones on the left "occupiers".


I think they call themselves that.  The rest of us call them bums.


They're democracy protesters, like the ones Fark was supporting in Iran and Egypt. Except they were weaker (so weak they couldn't even allow themselves to use weapons), and the regime was stronger.

When you understand why you hate Occupy, you will understand why you would also not support protests in other regimes. They're all dirty, chaotic, unreasonable, and law-breaking.  They're all done by people who seem to have nothing better to do all day, "so why don't they get a job?"

It's not exactly coincidence that Occupy happened soon after the Arab Spring.  The kids at home saw the parallels, saw the crooks who run the country siphoning money into their personal bank accounts and not being held to account, and tried to see if they could do what those others did. But they couldn't, not even close.
 
2012-12-22 07:13:13 PM  

Ishidan: fredklein: If the cops want a crowd to disperse, they need to pepper-spray the BACK of the crowd, let them run away, then spray the next row/layer of people, etc, not spray the FRONT row, who literally cannot move.

/but remember, smart people are allowed to be cops

Except if you spray the back row, which direction will they run? Hint: most people will reflexively back away from the threat, not charge through it--but if you spray the back of the crowd, their backing up would just run them into the main body of the crowd.


It is trivial from an elevated position to aim over the heads of the front row and hit people behind them. In fact, simply raising an arm in the air can accomplish this. (Of course, there are other ways to do this, such as standing on a ladder, etc.) Thus, the back row runs away, and now you can spray the front row, and the front row actually has the ability to leave, since there is no one behind them.

There is also this thing called a ballistic arc- spray up at an angle, and gravity will arc the stream.
 
2012-12-22 07:38:54 PM  

fredklein: It is trivial from an elevated position to aim over the heads of the front row and hit people behind them. In fact, simply raising an arm in the air can accomplish this. (Of course, there are other ways to do this, such as standing on a ladder, etc.) Thus, the back row runs away, and now you can spray the front row, and the front row actually has the ability to leave, since there is no one behind them.

There is also this thing called a ballistic arc- spray up at an angle, and gravity will arc the stream.


Well, the small range of handheld aerosol projectors (http://www.sabrered.com/servlet/the-template/LawEnforcement-dsh-Crowd Management/Page">30 feet on the horizontal, or thereabouts...so what, maybe 50 feet of arc?) means this doesn't work near as well as one might think: you just don't have the range to hit the 'back' of a crowd while keeping yourself at a safe distance, you'll hit the middle-which will then panic and trample the actual 'rear'. There's also police brutality concerns: You can't see what you're actually hitting, and the ones you're hitting are not the ones presenting a direct threat, because the front row keeps them out of striking range. Fine for military applications, but lawyer-bait in a police situation.
 
2012-12-22 07:39:04 PM  
Ishidan
if you spray the back of the crowd, their backing up would just run them into the main body of the crowd.

This is dumb and you should feel bad.
 
2012-12-22 07:41:24 PM  
oops forgot to close my tag linking to a pepper spray manufacturer's police grade specs page...you get the idea.
 
2012-12-22 07:42:15 PM  

fredklein: What? I never said that. I said it wouldn't be troubled stepping over them (as you put it "put your testicles directly over people who have time and time again said they hated you") if I was so armed and armored.


Ok that's cool, they have all this armor and they are armed. What happens if they step over these students and they decide they want to mess with them? Do they react in force or do they just let their testicles get punched?

It's so easy for us to decide what people should do when we're not there
 
2012-12-22 07:44:34 PM  

RanDomino: Ishidan
if you spray the back of the crowd, their backing up would just run them into the main body of the crowd.

This is dumb and you should feel bad.


I know. I was cutting down FredKlein's idea to disperse a crowd from the rear. Maybe I've just seen bigger crowds than he has...
 
2012-12-22 07:47:23 PM  

fredklein: If it bothers, step over the line of people BETWEEN the people. Testicles are over no one.


Between? They sit shoulder to shoulder, that's the entire point. There is no "between" that does not have two arms in it.
 
2012-12-22 07:54:57 PM  

DaCaptain19:
Congrats, 40-somethings. These are your precious snowflakes, your helicopter-parented self-entitled lazy dumbf*cks. who YOU raised, not me.


I rarely see somebody put the blame where it belongs. You can add to that the 40somethings that approved the loans they can't pay, and taught the worthless classes that the loans paid for.
 
2012-12-22 08:06:51 PM  

Esn: For some reason, things like this never happened at the Tea Party rallies. I wonder why.



Because they don't assault others, break store windows or set cars on fire?
 
2012-12-22 08:09:15 PM  

Abox: Amos Quito: [media.katu.com image 660x454]

And they call the ones on the left "occupiers".


I think they call themselves that.  The rest of us call them bums.


Ha ha. Nice.
 
2012-12-22 08:12:09 PM  

fragMasterFlash: Wow, she must have absolutely no gag reflex whatsoever.


Well...not now.
 
2012-12-22 08:19:34 PM  

Tat'dGreaser: What happens if they step over these students and they decide they want to mess with them? Do they react in force or do they just let their testicles get punched?


Then they get arrested for assaulting an officer. Duh.
 
2012-12-22 08:28:20 PM  

Esn: "when Americans with different income levels differ in their policy preferences, actual policy outcomes strongly reflect the preferences of the most affluent but bear virtually no relationship to the preferences of poor or middle-income Americans."


(Shrug) You go live in a country run by bums, I'll stay here.
 
2012-12-22 08:31:12 PM  

Esn: It's not exactly coincidence that Occupy happened soon after the Arab Spring.  The kids at home saw the parallels, saw the crooks who run the country siphoning money into their personal bank accounts and not being held to account, and tried to see if they could do what those others did. But they couldn't, not even close.


In short, the kids saw something that isn't there, and when attacking the imaginary things didn't make them go away, they started attacking the people that couldn't see their hallucinations, on the assumption that they were collaborating with them somehow to make them look crazy.

/before pepper spray was available, it would have been like Kent State
//actually if the media wasn't covering for the President like Baghdad Bob for the Baaths, it would have been a horrifying abuse worse than Kent State, The Holocaust, and "Gigli" combined
///so, thank you, Obama
 
2012-12-22 08:45:46 PM  

Lizsavage: We have been beat with clubs, tear gassed, flash grenades, shot with less lethal weapons, and pepper spray. Not to mention being chased, run over, and run down; by police on foot, bikes, horses, motorcycles, cars, vans, and large transports with militarized men hanging off the side


It's hard to reach any conclusion other than one of the following two possibilities:
1) You people are insane, because that's what it implies when you do the same thing over and over, expecting a different outcome; or

2) OWS is actually an underground cult of masochists who enjoy being "beat with clubs, tear gassed, flash grenades, shot with less lethal weapons, and pepper spray. Not to mention being chased, run over, and run down; by police on foot, bikes, horses, motorcycles, cars, vans, and large transports with militarized men hanging off the side."

So: either start your goddamned revolution, already, or get off the pot train tracks.
 
2012-12-22 09:15:17 PM  

Esn: Abox: Amos Quito: [media.katu.com image 660x454]

And they call the ones on the left "occupiers".


I think they call themselves that.  The rest of us call them bums.

They're democracy protesters, like the ones Fark was supporting in Iran and Egypt. Except they were weaker (so weak they couldn't even allow themselves to use weapons), and the regime was stronger.

When you understand why you hate Occupy, you will understand why you would also not support protests in other regimes. They're all dirty, chaotic, unreasonable, and law-breaking.  They're all done by people who seem to have nothing better to do all day, "so why don't they get a job?"

It's not exactly coincidence that Occupy happened soon after the Arab Spring.  The kids at home saw the parallels, saw the crooks who run the country siphoning money into their personal bank accounts and not being held to account, and tried to see if they could do what those others did. But they couldn't, not even close.



Any kid in this country that thinks their situation compares to living under an actual dictator needs a punch in the nads.
 
2012-12-22 09:31:13 PM  

Lizsavage: You know what else the tea party has? Guns. Occupy protestors tend to be fairly nonviolent. We haven't "rioted" but suffered the effects of many police riots. We have been beat with clubs, tear gassed, flash grenades, shot with less lethal weapons, and pepper spray. Not to mention being chased, run over, and run down; by police on foot, bikes, horses, motorcycles, cars, vans, and large transports with militarized men hanging off the side. Those of us with feet on the ground feel as if we have been through battle and if what has been happening for the past year is a sign of exactly how dangerous the police state has become, and makes us all wonder what will be next. Simple protests getting attacked by swarms of heavily armed "soldiers" is terrifying real. Occupy changed the conversation so much the banks were running scared and donated millions to the police forces all around the country. Over one million people pulled their money out of banks in short time lazy tear due to occupy. Fraudclosure mills across the country are being exposes. Robosigning, forged documents to screw homeowners, not to mention made to fail loans, where lenders actually lied about income to give the buyer the loan. Loans are sold bank to bank, houses are stolen through confused or corrupt courts. For a year we have been fighting these injustices while facing many ourselves. Don't let the trivial matter of his being attacked over and over story you from participating in a way that doesn't include direct action as there are plenty of ways to be involved. Its not a protest its a worldwide movement.

Yet you shiat on cop cars while the tea party men clean up even though they have guns. Appears some are adults and good citizens ,protecting their rights by peaceful gatherings and organized protest and the other is, well, you dirty hippies.
 
2012-12-22 09:45:29 PM  

swangoatman: Yet you shiat on cop cars while the tea party men clean up even though they have guns. Appears some are adults and good citizens ,protecting their rights by peaceful gatherings and organized protest and the other is, well, you dirty hippies.


To be fair, we can't judge them all by the over-the-top actions of a few OWS members who are obviously either psychopaths or police plants.  There have been instances where both varieties of protesters have succeeded in making a whole crowd look bad.

There is plenty to criticize and/or laugh at in the behavior and expectations of the "mainstream" OWS crowd.  Like the events depicted in this very photo, for example.
 
Esn
2012-12-22 10:15:06 PM  

Tatterdemalian: Esn: It's not exactly coincidence that Occupy happened soon after the Arab Spring.  The kids at home saw the parallels, saw the crooks who run the country siphoning money into their personal bank accounts and not being held to account, and tried to see if they could do what those others did. But they couldn't, not even close.

In short, the kids saw something that isn't there, and when attacking the imaginary things didn't make them go away, they started attacking the people that couldn't see their hallucinations, on the assumption that they were collaborating with them somehow to make them look crazy.


You're the one who doesn't see the reality. There are 400 people in the US who are richer than the bottom half of the country (150 million people) combined, who don't go to jail no matter what crimes they commit because the politicians can't get elected without their money, who get bailed out if they run into financial problems while the millions of people with foreclosed homes get nothing, but you think the problem is that some young people are mad about it.

By the way, the BBC just finished showing a fantastic documentary about all of this. It's called "Park Avenue: Money, Power and the American Dream" (trailer)
 
2012-12-22 10:31:00 PM  

fredklein: Then they get arrested for assaulting an officer. Duh.


And the arrest is made how?

You are kind of bringing us back to square one.
 
2012-12-22 10:48:54 PM  

Esn: You're the one who doesn't see the reality. There are 400 people in the US who are richer than the bottom half of the country (150 million people) combined, who don't go to jail no matter what crimes they commit because the politicians can't get elected without their money, who get bailed out if they run into financial problems while the millions of people with foreclosed homes get nothing, but you think the problem is that some young people are mad about it.


And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?
 
2012-12-22 11:35:36 PM  

Abox: Esn: Abox: Amos Quito: [media.katu.com image 660x454]

And they call the ones on the left "occupiers".


I think they call themselves that.  The rest of us call them bums.

They're democracy protesters, like the ones Fark was supporting in Iran and Egypt. Except they were weaker (so weak they couldn't even allow themselves to use weapons), and the regime was stronger.

When you understand why you hate Occupy, you will understand why you would also not support protests in other regimes. They're all dirty, chaotic, unreasonable, and law-breaking.  They're all done by people who seem to have nothing better to do all day, "so why don't they get a job?"

It's not exactly coincidence that Occupy happened soon after the Arab Spring.  The kids at home saw the parallels, saw the crooks who run the country siphoning money into their personal bank accounts and not being held to account, and tried to see if they could do what those others did. But they couldn't, not even close.


Any kid in this country that thinks their situation compares to living under an actual dictator needs a punch in the nads.


When you speak in absolutes like "any kid" it makes it REALLY easy to disprove. I've worked with kids in Appalachia that would like to have a word with you. Also, I'm guessing you didn't hear about the child just recently murdered for not reading the their Bible... See when you take extreme examples it makes it really easy to disprove a universal claim like "any kid in this country..."
 
2012-12-22 11:38:00 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: Esn: You're the one who doesn't see the reality. There are 400 people in the US who are richer than the bottom half of the country (150 million people) combined, who don't go to jail no matter what crimes they commit because the politicians can't get elected without their money, who get bailed out if they run into financial problems while the millions of people with foreclosed homes get nothing, but you think the problem is that some young people are mad about it.

And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?


It doesn't
 
2012-12-22 11:39:22 PM  

Hiro-ACiD: [i.imgur.com image 640x499]

/it pays to recycle


Thank you for reminding me that Half-Life 3 will come out in, well, never.

/Loved farking with that cop and throwing the can at him (then running like hell)
 
2012-12-22 11:47:49 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Man On Pink Corner: Esn: You're the one who doesn't see the reality. There are 400 people in the US who are richer than the bottom half of the country (150 million people) combined, who don't go to jail no matter what crimes they commit because the politicians can't get elected without their money, who get bailed out if they run into financial problems while the millions of people with foreclosed homes get nothing, but you think the problem is that some young people are mad about it.

And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?

It doesn't


It makes people sit up and take notice of a problem that they are too blissfully ignorant to view. Most people are content to let the world burn around them let the lives of millions of people be ruined as long as they get theirs. When "theirs" is threatened or when you directly involve them, they might be more likely to participate or at least passively endorse legislative change if for no other reason than it makes their lives easier, if not for the larger moral reason that they are now aware of the problem and how dire it is.

There are a lot of psychological experiments that show that if you individually involve someone in a moral choice they will often make the correct one, but as long as they are an anonymous third party they will let a child die a foot away from them without doing anything about it, or even caring.
 
2012-12-22 11:51:07 PM  

Man On Pink Corner: And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?


By making you give them money, so when they get enough they will magically be more powerful than the evil 1% and be able to break all the laws they want. But they'll do it FOR !!JUSTICE!! so it will be okay.

/too bad money doesn't equal power in the real world
//power is what brings money, it really doesn't work the other way around
///that's why dumping a million dollars in lottery winnings on a homeless bum only enriches the con artists who bleed him dry
 
2012-12-22 11:52:07 PM  

Mr. Carpenter: It makes people sit up and take notice of a problem that they are too blissfully ignorant to view. Most people are content to let the world burn around them let the lives of millions of people be ruined as long as they get theirs. When "theirs" is threatened or when you directly involve them, they might be more likely to participate or at least passively endorse legislative change if for no other reason than it makes their lives easier, if not for the larger moral reason that they are now aware of the problem and how dire it is.


Yeeaaahhhh... no.
 
2012-12-22 11:52:17 PM  
Man On Pink Corner
And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?

Not that I agree with the tactic, but there are generally two reasons given: Apparently nothing else will force you to confront the situation, and your going to work enriches the corporate masters.
 
2012-12-23 12:11:16 AM  

Maybe you should drive: fredklein: Then they get arrested for assaulting an officer. Duh.

And the arrest is made how?


Not by spraying a cloud of pepper spray into their faces, I can tell you that.
 
2012-12-23 12:14:22 AM  

Tatterdemalian: Man On Pink Corner: And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?

By making you give them money, so when they get enough they will magically be more powerful than the evil 1% and be able to break all the laws they want. But they'll do it FOR !!JUSTICE!! so it will be okay.



I always wondered- if the 99% was really 'the 99%', then wouldn't they control the elections? I mean, it doesn't matter how rich/greedy/evil a politician is, if 99% of the voters vote against him, he's out of office. Then the 99%'ers could vote in one of their own, a loyal, trustworthy person.

/unless 'the 99%' isn't really 99%....
//or there are no loyal, trustworthy people amongst them....
 
2012-12-23 12:17:46 AM  

RanDomino: Man On Pink Corner
And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?

Not that I agree with the tactic, but there are generally two reasons given: Apparently nothing else will force you to confront the situation, and your going to work enriches the corporate masters.


And that shows how badly these people think-

1) If someone stops me from getting to work, I don't care about their issues- I WANT THEM OUT OF MY WAY!!!

2) If I don't go to work, the 'corporate masters' still get paid. Their salaries and bonuses are not dependent on me getting to work on time on any particular day. However. *I* will lose my pay for the time I was not working.
 
2012-12-23 12:20:34 AM  

fredklein: Not by spraying a cloud of pepper spray into their faces, I can tell you that.


OK. I can think of a whole bunch of things I wouldn't do. The question was what would you do?
 
2012-12-23 12:21:44 AM  

fredklein: Tatterdemalian: Man On Pink Corner: And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?

By making you give them money, so when they get enough they will magically be more powerful than the evil 1% and be able to break all the laws they want. But they'll do it FOR !!JUSTICE!! so it will be okay.


I always wondered- if the 99% was really 'the 99%', then wouldn't they control the elections? I mean, it doesn't matter how rich/greedy/evil a politician is, if 99% of the voters vote against him, he's out of office. Then the 99%'ers could vote in one of their own, a loyal, trustworthy person.

/unless 'the 99%' isn't really 99%....
//or there are no loyal, trustworthy people amongst them....


That would be working within the system, which is itself broken.
 
2012-12-23 12:47:13 AM  

Mr. Carpenter: Abox:

Any kid in this country that thinks their situation compares to living under an actual dictator needs a punch in the nads.

When you speak in absolutes like "any kid" it makes it REALLY easy to disprove. I've worked with kids in Appalachia that would like to have a word with you. Also, I'm guessing you didn't hear about the child just recently murdered for not reading the their Bible... See when you take extreme examples it makes it really easy to disprove a universal claim like "any kid in this country..."


farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2012-12-23 12:54:03 AM  

Man On Pink Corner: Mr. Carpenter: It makes people sit up and take notice of a problem that they are too blissfully ignorant to view. Most people are content to let the world burn around them let the lives of millions of people be ruined as long as they get theirs. When "theirs" is threatened or when you directly involve them, they might be more likely to participate or at least passively endorse legislative change if for no other reason than it makes their lives easier, if not for the larger moral reason that they are now aware of the problem and how dire it is.

Yeeaaahhhh... no.


With such an amazingly logical post filled with so much research, insight, and profound wisdom I obviously have NOTHING more to add to this conversation...
 
Esn
2012-12-23 01:41:06 AM  

fredklein: Tatterdemalian: Man On Pink Corner: And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?

By making you give them money, so when they get enough they will magically be more powerful than the evil 1% and be able to break all the laws they want. But they'll do it FOR !!JUSTICE!! so it will be okay.


I always wondered- if the 99% was really 'the 99%', then wouldn't they control the elections? I mean, it doesn't matter how rich/greedy/evil a politician is, if 99% of the voters vote against him, he's out of office. Then the 99%'ers could vote in one of their own, a loyal, trustworthy person.

/unless 'the 99%' isn't really 99%....
//or there are no loyal, trustworthy people amongst them....


Among the 1% are gatekeepers who choose who the 99% get to vote for. Looking at it that way, it doesn't matter if 99% of voters don't like what they're doing, because they'll never get an option to vote for the candidate they want (it happens, but not that often). Check the study I linked to earlier, it covers a few decades of this.
 
2012-12-23 01:52:00 AM  

Maybe you should drive: fredklein: Not by spraying a cloud of pepper spray into their faces, I can tell you that.

OK. I can think of a whole bunch of things I wouldn't do. The question was what would you do?


Depends on circumstances. Maybe: they grab at me, I grab their arms and cuff them. Or, I step away, and on of the other 50 cops there grabs them and cuffs them.

Again, no pepper-spraying in the face needed.
 
2012-12-23 01:52:51 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: fredklein: Tatterdemalian: Man On Pink Corner: And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?

By making you give them money, so when they get enough they will magically be more powerful than the evil 1% and be able to break all the laws they want. But they'll do it FOR !!JUSTICE!! so it will be okay.


I always wondered- if the 99% was really 'the 99%', then wouldn't they control the elections? I mean, it doesn't matter how rich/greedy/evil a politician is, if 99% of the voters vote against him, he's out of office. Then the 99%'ers could vote in one of their own, a loyal, trustworthy person.

/unless 'the 99%' isn't really 99%....
//or there are no loyal, trustworthy people amongst them....

That would be working within the system, which is itself broken.


The majority (99%) wins. Upon winning, they get the chance to change the system. How is that "broken"??
 
2012-12-23 01:55:31 AM  

Esn: Among the 1% are gatekeepers who choose who the 99% get to vote for. Looking at it that way, it doesn't matter if 99% of voters don't like what they're doing, because they'll never get an option to vote for the candidate they want (it happens, but not that often). Check the study I linked to earlier, it covers a few decades of this.


If there was a candidate that 99% of the population wanted, then there is no way they could be left off the ballot. And, even if (due to some technicality) they were, are write-ins not allowed?
 
Esn
2012-12-23 01:55:31 AM  

Tatterdemalian: Man On Pink Corner: And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?

By making you give them money, so when they get enough they will magically be more powerful than the evil 1% and be able to break all the laws they want. But they'll do it FOR !!JUSTICE!! so it will be okay.

/too bad money doesn't equal power in the real world
//power is what brings money, it really doesn't work the other way around
///that's why dumping a million dollars in lottery winnings on a homeless bum only enriches the con artists who bleed him dry


I think you have some misunderstandings. One of the major OWS goals was to get money out of politics, to get back to mandatory public campaign finance so that the concerns of people with fewer resources can also get heard.

As for money and power, they are very intimately connected. Money is the ability to get other people to do things that they otherwise wouldn't want to do.

The reason bums who win lotteries often fail to do well for themselves (though not always) is the same reason that children with access to guns are liable to hurt something. They don't have the training.
 
2012-12-23 02:01:38 AM  

fredklein: Depends on circumstances. Maybe: they grab at me, I grab their arms and cuff them. Or, I step away, and on of the other 50 cops there grabs them and cuffs them.


That sounds easy. I wonder if the reason this technique isn't utilized more is solely because cops are sadists, or if maybe there is more to it.

I mean, when I watch baseball games I wonder why the hitters don't just hit home runs on every pitch. I've never had the opportunity to hit against major league pitching, but it just looks so easy on tv. It makes me wonder why they don't try it. That's all
 
Esn
2012-12-23 02:12:31 AM  

fredklein: Esn: Among the 1% are gatekeepers who choose who the 99% get to vote for. Looking at it that way, it doesn't matter if 99% of voters don't like what they're doing, because they'll never get an option to vote for the candidate they want (it happens, but not that often). Check the study I linked to earlier, it covers a few decades of this.

If there was a candidate that 99% of the population wanted, then there is no way they could be left off the ballot. And, even if (due to some technicality) they were, are write-ins not allowed?


How would 99% of the population know they wanted that candidate if they didn't even know the candidate existed? 6 huge corporations control 90% of the media in America (source). It used to be 50 companies as late as 1983.

How much attention did any of the third-party candidates get in 2012? Almost none at all, although a number were on the ballot in most states. You have to be a candidate from one of the two major parties. And to actually win the primaries in either one, you need to raise a lot of money, and pass all sorts of litmus tests that will weed out the candidates that not acceptable to the gatekeepers.

The politicians also have a strong incentive to not piss off the 1%, because if they do well for them, they can expect a job at a large financial firm after they're done their political career. They also often hold stocks in the companies that they make legislation for.
 
2012-12-23 03:03:07 AM  

Mr. Carpenter: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Man On Pink Corner: Esn: You're the one who doesn't see the reality. There are 400 people in the US who are richer than the bottom half of the country (150 million people) combined, who don't go to jail no matter what crimes they commit because the politicians can't get elected without their money, who get bailed out if they run into financial problems while the millions of people with foreclosed homes get nothing, but you think the problem is that some young people are mad about it.

And blocking the road I take to get to work helps how?

It doesn't

It makes people sit up and take notice of a problem that they are too blissfully ignorant to view. Most people are content to let the world burn around them let the lives of millions of people be ruined as long as they get theirs. When "theirs" is threatened or when you directly involve them, they might be more likely to participate or at least passively endorse legislative change if for no other reason than it makes their lives easier, if not for the larger moral reason that they are now aware of the problem and how dire it is.

There are a lot of psychological experiments that show that if you individually involve someone in a moral choice they will often make the correct one, but as long as they are an anonymous third party they will let a child die a foot away from them without doing anything about it, or even caring.


Yeah, those people sitting on the blocked train waiting to go home sure took notice.
 
2012-12-23 03:20:48 AM  
Did she have trouble when the oil hit her anus?
 
2012-12-23 03:29:13 AM  

WhoopAssWayne: Zuccotti Park showed us all exactly what happens when the freeloading liberals are left to their own devices:

*) Went straight to an unelected oligarchy, completely bypassing democratically elected leaders. The people who had control of the (Wells Fargo, heh) bank account were the leaders.

*) Third world sanitation and the predictable spread of preventable disease.

*) Violence, rape, antisemitism, and racism.

*) 'some are more equal than others' nomenklatura with at least 3 separate classes of people: the oligarchy, the commoners, and the takers, with more on the way.

*) Zero self-sustainability, just waiting around for food handouts, etc.

Yes, the Liberal Utopia, all held together by a common hatred for the people who actually pay taxes and and contribute to society.


What color is the sky in where ever it is that you live? It's blue here.
 
2012-12-23 05:01:44 AM  
The failures were: (1) Partisanship, and (2) Disorganization.
 
2012-12-23 05:28:11 AM  
Ah the joys of a country where police are allowed to use weapons, which they swore 20 years ago would only ever be used to defend themselves and others against dangerous criminals, to enforce compliance at will.

Well done guys.
 
2012-12-23 06:21:45 AM  

gaspode: Ah the joys of a country where police are allowed to use weapons, which they swore 20 years ago would only ever be used to defend themselves and others against dangerous criminals, to enforce compliance at will.

Well done guys.


Comedy is its own justification, in this case.
 
2012-12-23 06:30:25 AM  
farm3.staticflickr.com
 
2012-12-23 10:14:17 AM  

Esn: How would 99% of the population know they wanted that candidate if they didn't even know the candidate existed? 6 huge corporations control 90% of the media in America (source). It used to be 50 companies as late as 1983.


Internet.

Or is that controlled, too? How much do you spend on tinfoil per annum?

How much attention did any of the third-party candidates get in 2012? Almost none at all, although a number were on the ballot in most states.

None were backed by 99% of the population.
 
2012-12-23 10:40:31 AM  

ZAZ: An Occupy Portland protester who was blasted in the face with pepper spray was found guilty this week of ignoring police orders and will now have to pay a fine.

The judge had to find her guilty to protect police from her lawsuit.


Not really. It's called "excessive force" for a reason, and there are people currently in jail whose families are getting money from the state because they won an excessive force lawsuit related to the crime they committed to get in jail in the first place.
 
2012-12-23 12:14:07 PM  
Trying to keep score here:

TEA Party protesters who get permits, don't block public access or disrupt business, behave like adults and clean up after themselves = the police are afraid to beat them up because they're all armed.

Occupy protesters who block traffic, public transportation and public access; who create public heath hazards; who take over private property and/or public property without permission; who refuse repeated requests to disperse or move and who instead scream in riot cops' faces and get pepper-sprayed = cops are all tiny-dicked thugs who hate and fear the First Amendment.

That about right?
 
2012-12-23 12:39:21 PM  

fredklein: None were backed by 99% of the population.


Which, to the "progressives," is proof that the system is broken, because a cult leader worshiped by a fraction of a percent of the population (including the progressive himself) and hated by the rest can't win an election where everyone is allowed to vote. That's NOT FAIR and the whole system needs to be overthrown, by force if necessary.

In the days when only might made right, this was actually how the "divine right of kings" was determined... whoever could rally the biggest, best trained and equipped army and massacre all his challengers with it, became king. Problem was, this was very hard on the population, and had to be repeated whenever the king eventually died, even if he made it very clear who was to be his successor, because there would always be other would-be kings who would try to carve out their own little kingdoms as soon as there was even the tiniest dissent in the army that the king's power truly came from. As a result, no true "superpowers" could emerge until another, less deadly, method of choosing a successor was developed by the Greeks: the use of a popular vote to determine the peoples' will, with the battlefield being in the debate halls and the weapons being mathematics.

/the joke of the "progressives" is that they want us to "progress" back to living in caves
//the punch line is they are in charge of the US now, and are already implementing policies to guide us backwards to the days when military strength decided leaders rather than popular vote
 
2012-12-23 12:57:30 PM  

Ishidan: DaCaptain19:
Congrats, 40-somethings. These are your precious snowflakes, your helicopter-parented self-entitled lazy dumbf*cks. who YOU raised, not me.

I rarely see somebody put the blame where it belongs. You can add to that the 40somethings that approved the loans they can't pay, and taught the worthless classes that the loans paid for.


THIS.
 
2012-12-23 01:15:19 PM  

Sensei Can You See: Trying to keep score here:

TEA Party protesters who get permits, don't block public access or disrupt business, behave like adults and clean up after themselves = the police are afraid to beat them up because they're all armed.

Occupy protesters who block traffic, public transportation and public access; who create public heath hazards; who take over private property and/or public property without permission; who refuse repeated requests to disperse or move and who instead scream in riot cops' faces and get pepper-sprayed = cops are all tiny-dicked thugs who hate and fear the First Amendment.

That about right?


Yes, and congratulations! You are no longer a FARK newbie, now that you understand how we project our own cowardice onto anyone that actually matters.

/wish I had a diploma to offer, but the best one I could find was on a DeviantArt page
//you think FARK drama is bad, wait till wannabee copyright lawyers get involved
 
2012-12-23 01:17:32 PM  
fredklein
2) If I don't go to work, the 'corporate masters' still get paid. Their salaries and bonuses are not dependent on me getting to work on time on any particular day.

Unless they're idiots, they make money off your surplus labor.

If there was a candidate that 99% of the population wanted, then there is no way they could be left off the ballot.

Who's going to put them there?

And, even if (due to some technicality) they were, are write-ins not allowed?

Who's going to organize the write-in campaign?

Internet.

The vast majority of people get their "news" from TV and newspapers and probably always will.


Tatterdemalian

whaarrrgarbl.jpg
 
2012-12-23 01:20:46 PM  

TofuTheAlmighty: Don't immediately follow the pointless request of a militarized cop?

That's an assault with a pain spray.

It's still not clear to me why pepper spray isn't banned under the Chem Weapons Convention.


Also if using chemical weapons against your own people is an excuse to invade a country. . . .
 
2012-12-23 01:56:55 PM  

Generation_D: RanDomino: Oznog

Holy crap you're smart.

Lets turn it around.  Tell me where you live, and I'll get some friends and show up and break the nearest business windows to your home, frighten your pets, maybe take out some car windows along your street.

Will I then get to accuse you of not living in an appropriate enough dwelling to have a political say?

For some reason you think because something is downtown, you have a right to smash it because it is where traditionally, the protests have been held.

I say we've had enough.  Move that sh*t out to suburbia, its where most/all of the kids doing it grew up, its where it would be nearer your families homes.


First off let me say I definitely don't support Black Block or any kind of destruction of property during a protest. I see your point from your earlier post about how such activities alienate people. I myself stopped going to occupy protests after getting into a fight with the Black Block when they were trying to intimidate a reporter.

However, I think you missed the point of RanDomino's question. You live in a new building in a cheep neighborhood. That means you are paying more rent than the former residents were paying. Which means that other building owners are going to start to throw out residents to try to get more rent.

Also the often new residents often don't have a clue about the changes they are making by moving into this family called a neighborhood. They don't know the mores and often don't care to know them or the history of the place. An I'm here and you should conform to me dominates and that is devastating to an established neighborhood.

Gentrification is an ugly thing just ugly. I watched my neighborhood change from Nurses, plumbers, janitors, trades of all types into higher paid workers. The kids I watched growing up had to leave because someone with more money wanted their home. The relationships built over decades are suddenly broken apart and scattered to the wind.

Trust me that kind of upheaval creates a lot of deep seated anger. When the maintained Fords were replaced by rented beemers I thought about it too.

I wont do it do to my own code of ethics but hopefully I can show you where some of that anger comes from.

This is written assuming you are living in a city environment.

 
2012-12-23 05:25:44 PM  

RanDomino: fredklein
2) If I don't go to work, the 'corporate masters' still get paid. Their salaries and bonuses are not dependent on me getting to work on time on any particular day.

Unless they're idiots, they make money off your surplus labor.


No- they make money of of a LOT of people's surplus labor. The fraction of that that I (or any given worker) is responsible for is too small to be meaningful.

To put it another way, If I miss work, the CEO of the company makes a billionth of a cent less this year., while I lose hundreds of dollars in pay.

If there was a candidate that 99% of the population wanted, then there is no way they could be left off the ballot.

Who's going to put them there?


Where?

My point, which you don't seem to get, is that IF the '99%' was actually 'the 99%', then they would not have any trouble getting one of their own elected. I don't see how 99% of the population could fail to do so.

Now, of course, if they aren't really 'the 99%', but were rather a teensy tiny minority, then the lack of any progress in that regard is understandable.

And, even if (due to some technicality) they were, are write-ins not allowed?

Who's going to organize the write-in campaign?


The 99%.
 
2012-12-23 06:11:04 PM  

fredklein: kwame: Nem Wan: A court of law has a predetermined bias in favor of the law and therefore someone who disagrees with the fundamental premise that the law should be followed is not going to get a fair hearing.

Or: you don't get a mouthful of pepper spray when you follow the directives of law enforcement.

What if you CAN'T follow their orders? Like, they tell you to disperse, and you can go anywhere because there's, like, 100 peopel behind and around you?

/guess she should have teleported away


I suppose leaning forward and yelling at the cops was her only option. It isn't like she could have, I don't know, simply turned around or anything.
 
2012-12-23 06:32:22 PM  

Tatterdemalian: the punch line is they are in charge of the US now, and are already implementing policies to guide us backwards to the days when military strength decided leaders rather than popular vote


Very valid point, unfortunately. This is why a conservative should never miss an opportunity to punch a social conservative in the nuts.

The idiots on the right have cost the rest of us on the right dearly, and in ways that won't become apparent for some time.
 
2012-12-23 09:41:57 PM  
fredklein
No- they make money of of a LOT of people's surplus labor. The fraction of that that I (or any given worker) is responsible for is too small to be meaningful.

The fraction from each individual is infinitesimal, but taken together it's 100%.

To put it another way, If I miss work, the CEO of the company makes a billionth of a cent less this year

I'll bet you could actually do some math there.

Where?

My point, which you don't seem to get, is that IF the '99%' was actually 'the 99%', then they would not have any trouble getting one of their own elected. I don't see how 99% of the population could fail to do so.


Who's going to put them on the ballot? A giant ball of outrage is useless. Organization is everything. What organization do people have?

The 99%.

That's a concept, not an organization.


Man On Pink Corner
Very valid point, unfortunately. This is why a conservative should never miss an opportunity to punch a social conservative in the nuts.

The idiots on the right have cost the rest of us on the right dearly, and in ways that won't become apparent for some time.


Religious fundamentalists are a necessary part of the equation, to provide moral justification for why it's OK for some people to be absurdly wealthy and powerful while others are destitute: People are poor because they are in some way immoral. Therefore, no welfare programs because if people are poor they deserve it. Prisons? Build more and lock up anyone for anything, because anyone who commits a crime is morally bankrupt. "For God and country".
 
2012-12-23 10:13:52 PM  

FriarED1: I suppose leaning forward and yelling at the cops was her only option. It isn't like she could have, I don't know, simply turned around or anything.


Turned around and gone where? Or do you mean just presented the back of her head to their batons?
 
2012-12-23 10:22:07 PM  

RanDomino: I'll bet you could actually do some math there.


Why don't you do the math? Go work for a company for a year, then work a second year, but don't show up one day, and see what difference there is in the CEO's salary.

The fraction from each individual is infinitesimal, but taken together it's 100%.

And did these people block 100% of the workers in the country from getting to work?

No- they stopped a train of people. Maybe even two trains (or three, or whatever). Oh-wait- they didn't STOP them, they just slowed them down. So, the impact on the rich company owners is trivial.

The 99%.

That's a concept, not an organization.


So, instead of hanging out blocking traffic, why don't these people, you know, organize themselves? They can become the organization.

But, that would be work.
 
2012-12-23 11:09:15 PM  
fredklein
Why don't you do the math? Go work for a company for a year, then work a second year, but don't show up one day, and see what difference there is in the CEO's salary.

Wow

No- they stopped a train of people. Maybe even two trains (or three, or whatever). Oh-wait- they didn't STOP them, they just slowed them down. So, the impact on the rich company owners is trivial.

It's more of a moral justification than an actual strategy.

So, instead of hanging out blocking traffic, why don't these people, you know, organize themselves? They can become the organization.

But, that would be work.


Tell me about it.
 
2012-12-23 11:53:53 PM  

fredklein: Or do you mean just presented the back of her head to their batons?


What batons? Who got hit with batons? Now you're just making shiat up. You really think this woman found herself in this situation by happenstance and was trapped where she got sprayed?

I have been reading threads for eight years, and I can only think of one or two instances where a person presented themselves as poorly as you have in this thread. Congratulations?
 
2012-12-24 12:45:34 AM  

Maybe you should drive: fredklein: Or do you mean just presented the back of her head to their batons?

What batons? Who got hit with batons?


No one- the cops were satisfied with spraying a woman in the face and mouth with pepper spray.

You really think this woman found herself in this situation by happenstance and was trapped where she got sprayed?

I think that it is unreasonable to order someone who is surrounded by a huge crowd to leave, then punish her by spraying a chemical irritant directly in her face and mouth for not doing the impossible.
 
2012-12-24 06:33:46 AM  
When she was sprayed, was she pleading with the cops that there was nowhere to go? No, she was egging them on and deserved what she got.
 
2012-12-24 11:16:24 AM  

FriarED1: When she was sprayed, was she pleading with the cops that there was nowhere to go? No, she was egging them on and deserved what she got.


1) Were you there? Then you don't know what she was saying.

2) The cops weren't listening anyway.

3) It doesn't matter what she was saying- spraying a chemical into someones' face and mouth because she wasn't doing the impossible is wrong. If you think otherwise, come over my place- I'll order you to flap your arms and fly, then mace you when you don't. And you'll enjoy it, because you deserve it, Right?
 
2012-12-24 11:56:08 AM  

fredklein: FriarED1: When she was sprayed, was she pleading with the cops that there was nowhere to go? No, she was egging them on and deserved what she got.

1) Were you there? Then you don't know what she was saying.

2) The cops weren't listening anyway.

3) It doesn't matter what she was saying- spraying a chemical into someones' face and mouth because she wasn't doing the impossible is wrong. If you think otherwise, come over my place- I'll order you to flap your arms and fly, then mace you when you don't. And you'll enjoy it, because you deserve it, Right?


I was watching this live as it happened (5 blocks from my house). She had just lunged at an officer. A picture may be worth 1,000 words but carries no context. Also the crowd near her was 4 or 5 people deep with a large open square behind them and could easily have moved back.

Please continue to have no clue about what you're talking about.
 
2012-12-24 12:32:02 PM  

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: I was watching this live as it happened (5 blocks from my house). She had just lunged at an officer. A picture may be worth 1,000 words but carries no context. Also the crowd near her was 4 or 5 people deep with a large open square behind them and could easily have moved back.

Please continue to have no clue about what you're talking about.


Pictures only lie when conservatives (and Israelis) take them. They can never lie or be edited to produce false impressions otherwise.

/now shout your two minutes of hate at George Zimmerman like a good citizen
 
2012-12-24 01:52:02 PM  

Animatronik: Esn: For some reason, things like this never happened at the Tea Party rallies. I wonder why.

The Tea Partiers acted all hurt and oppressed, but they were never actually hurt or oppressed.

That's because they didn't fight with the police, get a mouthful of pepper spray, and a fine.

/I have no sympathy with angry rioters because you can hold peaceful demonstrations in the U.S. and we have free elections. If ppl really were oppressed here, it would be different.


Aaaaand I'll just leave this here (too big to post):

Link
 
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