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(Arkansas Matters)   Arkansas Republicans want to allow the Bible to be taught in public schools for "academic" purposes. Remain silent on the "academic" value of the Quran and the Epic of Gilgamesh   (arkansasmatters.com) divider line 198
    More: Asinine, Epic of Gilgamesh, Koran, Fort Smith, Charlton Heston, higher educations, Bibles  
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2562 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Dec 2012 at 1:22 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-22 01:06:50 AM
Make sure all the fun parts about rape and incest are taught too.

You know. For the kids' education.
 
2012-12-22 01:19:48 AM

SilentStrider: Make sure all the fun parts about rape and incest are taught too.

You know. For the kids' education.


Don't forget the murder and slavery.

Though if this truly is being taught in a historical perspective I don't have much problem with it.  Though somehow I doubt that will end up being the case.
 
2012-12-22 01:25:14 AM
This is the only Good Book:

www.evolvefish.com
 
2012-12-22 01:28:02 AM
And verily, we shall read from Chapter 1, Verse 1, of the book of FSM

1. First shalt thou bring 6-8 cups of water and 2tbs salt to a boil
2. Only then shalt thou add 1/2 package of Blessed Sacrament unto thy boiling Host
3. Praise it for 9-11 minutes, or unto taste
4. Receive thy bounty
 
2012-12-22 01:28:46 AM
They should teach them about the part of the bible the USA is mentioned.
 
2012-12-22 01:29:17 AM
Cool. Do we get a home cooking class for that abortive that a husband could feed his wife if he was a bit jelly?
 
2012-12-22 01:31:21 AM
"It is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies. "
 
2012-12-22 01:34:10 AM
Well, since it's for ACADEMIC purposes, i guess they'll also teach satanism alongside the bible, no? Teach the controversy and all that?
 
2012-12-22 01:34:26 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: And verily, we shall read from Chapter 1, Verse 1, of the book of FSM

1. First shalt thou bring 6-8 cups of water and 2tbs salt to a boil
2. Only then shalt thou add 1/2 package of Blessed Sacrament unto thy boiling Host
3. Praise it for 9-11 minutes, or unto taste
4. Receive thy bounty


I see you left out pasta 43:11 "...and though shalt season with parmeeson". Typical pseudo-pasta.
/heretic
 
2012-12-22 01:34:40 AM
What was it Barry Goldwater said about fundies again?
 
2012-12-22 01:37:59 AM

Goetz: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And verily, we shall read from Chapter 1, Verse 1, of the book of FSM

1. First shalt thou bring 6-8 cups of water and 2tbs salt to a boil
2. Only then shalt thou add 1/2 package of Blessed Sacrament unto thy boiling Host
3. Praise it for 9-11 minutes, or unto taste
4. Receive thy bounty

I see you left out pasta 43:11 "...and though shalt season with parmeeson". Typical pseudo-pasta.
/heretic


Go easy on him he wasn't using the King Barilla version.
 
2012-12-22 01:38:39 AM
CORRECTION: "and thou shalt"
Forgive me oh Noodly Master.
 
2012-12-22 01:39:08 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: 3. Praise it for 9-11 minutes, or unto taste


www.fullissue.com
 
2012-12-22 01:39:09 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: And verily, we shall read from Chapter 1, Verse 1, of the book of FSM

1. First shalt thou bring 6-8 cups of water and 2tbs salt to a boil
2. Only then shalt thou add 1/2 package of Blessed Sacrament unto thy boiling Host
3. Praise it for 9-11 minutes, or unto taste
4. Receive thy bounty


I must be from a reform congregation. We have been taught to never add more than 1/2tsp of salt. PASPHEMER!
 
2012-12-22 01:39:35 AM

cmb53208: What was it Barry Goldwater said about fundies again?


Barack Obama is as close to Goldwater as we'll get and I'm happy with that.

Goldwater was right. Scarily so. It's always darkest before the storm. This is all coming to a head. Hopefully, there is sunlight at the end of this dark tunnel.
 
2012-12-22 01:40:59 AM

shinji3i: Goetz: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And verily, we shall read from Chapter 1, Verse 1, of the book of FSM

1. First shalt thou bring 6-8 cups of water and 2tbs salt to a boil
2. Only then shalt thou add 1/2 package of Blessed Sacrament unto thy boiling Host
3. Praise it for 9-11 minutes, or unto taste
4. Receive thy bounty

I see you left out pasta 43:11 "...and though shalt season with parmeeson". Typical pseudo-pasta.
/heretic

Go easy on him he wasn't using the King Barilla version.


I pharaseephrased
 
2012-12-22 01:41:21 AM

shinji3i: Goetz: MaudlinMutantMollusk: And verily, we shall read from Chapter 1, Verse 1, of the book of FSM

1. First shalt thou bring 6-8 cups of water and 2tbs salt to a boil
2. Only then shalt thou add 1/2 package of Blessed Sacrament unto thy boiling Host
3. Praise it for 9-11 minutes, or unto taste
4. Receive thy bounty

I see you left out pasta 43:11 "...and though shalt season with parmeeson". Typical pseudo-pasta.
/heretic

Go easy on him he wasn't using the King Barilla version.


Splitter.
 
2012-12-22 01:43:45 AM
I'm a huge farking atheist and I'd like to say a couple things about that:
1. There's some gorgeous poetry in there. I mean, really. The Beatitudes, man. "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth." That is language at its finest right there.

2. Nothing and I mean nothing turns the faithful into atheists faster than legitimate academic study of the Bible. Comparative religion class, Bible as Literature, Biblical History, grounding study in the differing translations, whatever. If you actually read the farking thing in any sort of Academic fashion, it will kill faith. There are contradictions on every page and it's even worse if your faith holds that everything in the bible is literally true. If they're seriously going to teach the bible and do so in a manner that is beyond the level that is apparently used in Sunday School services, they're going to create a generation of agnostics, atheists and Buddhists.
 
2012-12-22 01:44:10 AM

NewportBarGuy: cmb53208: What was it Barry Goldwater said about fundies again?

Barack Obama is as close to Goldwater as we'll get and I'm happy with that.

Goldwater was right. Scarily so. It's always darkest before the storm. This is all coming to a head. Hopefully, there is sunlight at the end of this dark tunnel.


That's a train.
 
2012-12-22 01:46:48 AM
Gilgamesh was pretty legit in English class. Not sure about the other two books. Actually, the grammar in the other two are pretty bad.
 
2012-12-22 01:47:59 AM
Had a student utterly flabbergasted when I wrote "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabacthani" on the board and asked, "Does anybody know what this means?" When I said, "These were the last words of Jesus Christ: 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?'" he exclaimed, "How did you KNOW that?"

When I teach The Epic of Gilgamesh, we barely even discuss the flood myth and Utanapishtim's clear precursory nature to Noah, but that has more to do with the fact that it's the end of the semester and everyone is tired than it does my desire to shake the ignorant Christians out of their collective slumbers.

Still, I may get to one or two of them enough to make them ask a question or two, and that's enough for me. A lowly literature instructor can hope for little else...
 
2012-12-22 01:49:17 AM

likefunbutnot: I'm a huge farking atheist and I'd like to say a couple things about that:
1. There's some gorgeous poetry in there. I mean, really. The Beatitudes, man. "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth." That is language at its finest right there.

2. Nothing and I mean nothing turns the faithful into atheists faster than legitimate academic study of the Bible. Comparative religion class, Bible as Literature, Biblical History, grounding study in the differing translations, whatever. If you actually read the farking thing in any sort of Academic fashion, it will kill faith. There are contradictions on every page and it's even worse if your faith holds that everything in the bible is literally true. If they're seriously going to teach the bible and do so in a manner that is beyond the level that is apparently used in Sunday School services, they're going to create a generation of agnostics, atheists and Buddhists.


If you don't stop with this reason and rational thought thing I will have to call the police.
There's a lot of hungry mouths being fed by DERP and you're not helping. I won't stand for it.
Good day "sir".
 
2012-12-22 01:49:26 AM
Meh... It's one of the most-referenced works in western literature, and you really won't get 90% of western lit if you are ignorant of it.

My libby-mc-libberson school district had a month or so's worth of bible study as part of it's AP English class. The really fun part about that? I was the only agnostic in a classroom full of literal interpretationists. Otherwise smart, straight-A students who were able to do well in biology and STILL were convinced of a 6-day creation.

The icing on the cake was that the class was taught by a lapsed Jesuit. The more I think about it, the weirder my high-school days become.
 
2012-12-22 01:53:06 AM

axeeugene: Had a student utterly flabbergasted when I wrote "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabacthani" on the board and asked, "Does anybody know what this means?" When I said, "These were the last words of Jesus Christ: 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?'" he exclaimed, "How did you KNOW that?"

When I teach The Epic of Gilgamesh, we barely even discuss the flood myth and Utanapishtim's clear precursory nature to Noah, but that has more to do with the fact that it's the end of the semester and everyone is tired than it does my desire to shake the ignorant Christians out of their collective slumbers.

Still, I may get to one or two of them enough to make them ask a question or two, and that's enough for me. A lowly literature instructor can hope for little else...


coconutheadsets.com
 
2012-12-22 01:55:26 AM
I went to a Jesuit High School with a theology requirement for all 4 years. We absolutely read the Bible, the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Communist Manifesto, and Mein Kampf.

Didn't you?
 
2012-12-22 01:56:21 AM

likefunbutnot: I'm a huge farking atheist and I'd like to say a couple things about that:
1. There's some gorgeous poetry in there. I mean, really. The Beatitudes, man. "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth." That is language at its finest right there.

2. Nothing and I mean nothing turns the faithful into atheists faster than legitimate academic study of the Bible. Comparative religion class, Bible as Literature, Biblical History, grounding study in the differing translations, whatever. If you actually read the farking thing in any sort of Academic fashion, it will kill faith. There are contradictions on every page and it's even worse if your faith holds that everything in the bible is literally true. If they're seriously going to teach the bible and do so in a manner that is beyond the level that is apparently used in Sunday School services, they're going to create a generation of agnostics, atheists and Buddhists.


That's why they're not seriously going to do it.

One of the best books I know of that would DESTROY the faithful if they really read it is Bart Ehrman's "Jesus, Interrupted" where he describes his method of reading the Gospels "horizontally", that is, instead of reading Mark top to bottom, and then going on to Matthew, etc., you lay out the stories side by side and compare the birth narratives (if any), the Sermon narratives (if any) etc. You discover that the Passion narratives, while telling essentially the same "story" in all four Gospels actually tell radically different versions of the same event--differences which have tremendous impact on the focus of the story. As if the crucifixion got a gritty reboot between each Gospel. It's totally not the same story at all.

And it matters because in one version, Jesus is agonized, deserted, confused and alone at the end; while in another he is strong, confident and surrounded by his friends and in the presence of God. Either he was a beaten man or he wasn't--so which was it? In one (Mark), the centurion says he was the son of God; in John, the most blatantly anti-Jewish of the Gospels, the centurion says "this man was innocent." The takeaway is that Mark was written to carry the message to pagans, and John was written to heap blame on the Jews. This kind of needs to be taught to people, and it isn't being taught.
 
2012-12-22 01:57:13 AM

Tymast:
[coconutheadsets.com image 302x339]


That is what the job feels like most days. Sisyphusian, for sure. But a week from today, I'll be free of it for 2 weeks, so I can drink the pain away in the meantime.
 
2012-12-22 01:57:21 AM
Arkansas. Yep, sounds about right.
 
2012-12-22 01:58:06 AM

likefunbutnot: I'm a huge farking atheist and I'd like to say a couple things about that:
1. There's some gorgeous poetry in there. I mean, really. The Beatitudes, man. "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the Earth." That is language at its finest right there.

2. Nothing and I mean nothing turns the faithful into atheists faster than legitimate academic study of the Bible. Comparative religion class, Bible as Literature, Biblical History, grounding study in the differing translations, whatever. If you actually read the farking thing in any sort of Academic fashion, it will kill faith. There are contradictions on every page and it's even worse if your faith holds that everything in the bible is literally true. If they're seriously going to teach the bible and do so in a manner that is beyond the level that is apparently used in Sunday School services, they're going to create a generation of agnostics, atheists and Buddhists.


images.sodahead.com
 
2012-12-22 02:00:38 AM
My mother was a militant atheist, but she insisted that we study the Bible and learn it well, because it's integral to our entire culture. She also took us on a trip to the Holy Land so that we understood the historic and geographic significance.

/sending me to Catholic school in the first grade was a bit much, though
//confusing
 
2012-12-22 02:01:41 AM
A Christian is someone who believes in the Bible.

An atheist is someone who's read it.

/My favorite passage is still from Judges 19, in which a man and his "concubine" are travelling through a town and a sex-crazed mob tries to have sex with him. He offers up his concubine as consolation and the men (who number something like 750) proceed to rape and abuse her all night long. The next day the man finds her on his doorstep, naked, beaten and bruised. So he takes her back home, cuts her into twelve pieces and mails each piece to a different tribe of Israel, to send a message. Apparently this ignites a civil war.
 
2012-12-22 02:01:55 AM
I'd be in favor of it if they taught its derivations (Gilgamesh, Prometheus, Osiris, etc).
 
2012-12-22 02:02:02 AM

Tymast: axeeugene: Had a student utterly flabbergasted when I wrote "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabacthani" on the board and asked, "Does anybody know what this means?" When I said, "These were the last words of Jesus Christ: 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?'" he exclaimed, "How did you KNOW that?"

When I teach The Epic of Gilgamesh, we barely even discuss the flood myth and Utanapishtim's clear precursory nature to Noah, but that has more to do with the fact that it's the end of the semester and everyone is tired than it does my desire to shake the ignorant Christians out of their collective slumbers.

Still, I may get to one or two of them enough to make them ask a question or two, and that's enough for me. A lowly literature instructor can hope for little else...

[coconutheadsets.com image 302x339]


Thou hast invoked the name of my patron

/thou hast been thusly  cursed rewarded
 
2012-12-22 02:02:18 AM

Smoking GNU: images.sodahead.com


I got college credit for most of my high school humanities classes, so I have no idea what goes on in the non-AP kind, but even a surface level reading of Genesis 1 involves contradictory stories of the creation myth. It's not like you need a lot of rigor to get beyond "Jesus is love and god hates shrimp."
 
2012-12-22 02:03:04 AM

Kid the Universe: I went to a Jesuit High School with a theology requirement for all 4 years. We absolutely read the Bible, the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Communist Manifesto, and Mein Kampf.

Didn't you?


Srsly. Isn't general comparitive religious studies required in high school or jr. high?
 
2012-12-22 02:03:06 AM
I read excerpts from Gilgamesh and the book of Job in high school.
 
2012-12-22 02:03:50 AM

Kid the Universe: I went to a Jesuit High School with a theology requirement for all 4 years. We absolutely read the Bible, the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Communist Manifesto, and Mein Kampf.

Didn't you?


there was a comparative religion course that got scheduled, but was promptly cut from the curriculum when a nervous parent saw a picture of shiva in the suggested text and determined that nobody was going to teach her baby satan worship - enter pentecostal zerg rush.
 
2012-12-22 02:04:33 AM
The Bible has lessons for every generation. For instance the old chestnut, "Don't make fun of old bald guys. Or God will send bears to eat you."
 
2012-12-22 02:04:54 AM
My liberal English teacher in an Arkansas high school taught the AP courses and our very first assignment in 9th grade for her was "The Bible as/in Literature" and it was actually taught academically - I'm an atheist so I was initially disdainful but she made a valid point - a LOT of literature, especially classical literature makes many many allusions to the Bible with which a well education person should be familiar. Then again she also said a lot about questioning authority beliefs and how "if you don't ever question your beliefs how can you truly say they're your own?" Also we studied Buddhism, Islam, and other religions through literature.

All that said I'm sure that's not what the people referred to in the article are getting at at all. I'm sure they want to try to indoctrinate kids into Christianity in public schools which I believe is wrong and shouldn't be permitted.
 
2012-12-22 02:08:19 AM

heap: Kid the Universe: I went to a Jesuit High School with a theology requirement for all 4 years. We absolutely read the Bible, the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Communist Manifesto, and Mein Kampf.

Didn't you?

there was a comparative religion course that got scheduled, but was promptly cut from the curriculum when a nervous parent saw a picture of shiva in the suggested text and determined that nobody was going to teach her baby satan worship - enter pentecostal zerg rush.


that is absurd. comparative religion studies is as important as any other subject in the social sciences. perhaps one of the most important. what is with public schools? give a bit of everything and teach it like literature and history combined. very important stuff if we want to raise the best citizens we can
 
2012-12-22 02:10:00 AM

Kid the Universe: that is absurd


we kinda specialized in the absurd at the time. one of the congregations that was summoned to turn school board meetings into an episode of Benny Hill still handled snakes. in the 1990s.

absurdity was about our only source of entertainment.
 
2012-12-22 02:12:04 AM

heap: Kid the Universe: that is absurd

we kinda specialized in the absurd at the time. one of the congregations that was summoned to turn school board meetings into an episode of Benny Hill still handled snakes. in the 1990s.

absurdity was about our only source of entertainment.


there's a lot of trash to be entertained by. enjoy it. i do.

but education needs to be comprehensive. the number of people in this country who don't know potato should be a shame upon us all.

learn everything you possibly can. constantly
 
2012-12-22 02:14:40 AM
What does god need with a high school?
lochgarry.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-22 02:14:54 AM

Kid the Universe: that is absurd. comparative religion studies is as important as any other subject in the social sciences. perhaps one of the most important. what is with public schools? give a bit of everything and teach it like literature and history combined. very important stuff if we want to raise the best citizens we can


No doubt. Unfortunately, too many people actually believe in certain religious writings as if some super being dictated them as a manifesto of TRUTH. I don't think you can do it properly in American schools without aggravating the true believers.
 
2012-12-22 02:19:01 AM

Kid the Universe: but education needs to be comprehensive. the number of people in this country who don't know potato should be a shame upon us all.


it is, but the lack of knowledge is in many cases deliberate.

it isn't lost on me that the sin that gets you kicked out of the garden is eating from the tree of knowledge.

ok, it's lost on me personally, but the point it makes is apparently rather well received by way too many people. it's kinda the crux of the biscuit - if you know, you don't believe, and believing is somehow better by default than knowing.

if only a small percentage of the populace displayed this propensity, it could probably be labeled a psychological dysfunction - when a large enough percentage of the population displays it, you just call it 'society'.
 
2012-12-22 02:22:07 AM

Kid the Universe: I went to a Jesuit High School with a theology requirement for all 4 years. We absolutely read the Bible, the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Communist Manifesto, and Mein Kampf.

Didn't you?


I went to a well-funded public High School back in the '80's. We skimmed everything on that list except for those last two... ( Comparative Religions class, IIRC. Only one term, so we didn't have time to get really in-depth).

With all of the 'herp and 'derp in the USA since 2000, I'd be shocked if that class still exists in 2012.

/ bet the Jesuit education was better than mine (overall)
 
2012-12-22 02:23:33 AM
heap:

Kid the Universe: I went to a Jesuit High School with a theology requirement for all 4 years. We absolutely read the Bible, the Koran, the Bhagavad Gita, the Communist Manifesto, and Mein Kampf.

Didn't you?

there was a comparative religion course that got scheduled, but was promptly cut from the curriculum when a nervous parent saw a picture of shiva in the suggested text and determined that nobody was going to teach her baby satan worship - enter pentecostal zerg rush.


This is drifting a bit off topic, but something that horrified me was the fact that *rhetoric* courses can't get off the ground because they can't get people to attend them. I used to date a woman who was well into her master's degree in literature who spent years trying to get a required rhetoric course, but they kept cancelling it because they couldn't get sufficient attendance. This was at a reasonably good university, too. (Towson State)

*Rhetoric* for FSM's sake. Something that ought to be the *baseline* for an education, not something you don't encounter until late in an advanced degree.

No wonder we're so easily blown around by sound bites.

/ rant off.
 
2012-12-22 02:23:49 AM
We need to make real efforts towards getting wotan back in public schools, if the warrior spirit is revived then these berzerkers in lokis service would easily be repelled. May thor protect us, and tyr defend us, in valhalla all will feast.
 
2012-12-22 02:25:11 AM
My 10th grade literature book started with the Epic of Gilgamesh, and then had the Bible and Quran flood stories.. first three stories in the book.

/CSB
 
2012-12-22 02:25:45 AM
www.wtfeck.com
 
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