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(Talking Points Memo)   The history of the AR-15, the gun used at Sandy Hook. Since the media doing this, I'm impressed we're not looking at a picture of the AK-47. I mean, they're both assault rifles and both have "A" in their name   (tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 50
    More: Interesting, Sandy Hook, assault rifles, Kalashnikov, Palm City, semi-automatic rifle, John Allen Muhammad, Cerberus Capital Management LP, assault weapons ban  
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13564 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Dec 2012 at 10:07 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-12-21 11:08:15 AM
4 votes:
lh3.ggpht.com
2012-12-21 10:47:22 AM
4 votes:

WinoRhino: Gosling: The fact that the Bushmaster AR-15 was legally purchased by the shooter's mom and that it was the gun used in the shooting isn't evidence enough for you?

Someone steals my car and hits a pedestrian. Ban the Honda Civic.


No, it's covered by the 2nd Amendment. Being in a militia is a Civic duty.
2012-12-21 10:30:42 AM
3 votes:

FightDirector: thurstonxhowell: Dimensio: "Assault weapon" is a poor term with no established definition that is intentionally utilized to confuse civilian sporting rifles with military weapons.

"Civilian sporting rifle", when used to describe an AR-15, is one of the most ham-fisted attempts at political correctness I've ever seen.

How about this? Is this a legitimate civilian sporting rifle?

[i1.wp.com image 850x209]

That firearm is a Mini-14, a rifle that can accept a magazine that holds 5, 10, 20, or 30 rounds (or larger). It fires a bullet approximately .223 inches wide, at a velocity of about 2800 feet per second. It can fire one - and ONLY one - round each time you pull the trigger.


The scary man's firearm is an AR-15. It can accept a magazine that holds 5, 10, 20, or 30 rounds (or larger; Betamags can hold approx 100 rounds but have horrific jam rates). It fires a bullet approximately .223 inches wide, at a velocity of about 2800 feet per second. It can fire one - and ONLY one - round each time you pull the trigger. It is covered in black plastic, which makes it lighter and theoretically more impact-resistant. These facts are scary, yes? It looks like this:

[blogs.suntimes.com image 850x250]

They are, functionally, the SAME FARKING GUN. They shoot the same bullet, from magazines of the same size, at the same velocity. But one looks dammed scary, while one looks a lot like a hunting rifle you see on the wall.

There is quite literally no way to word a gun ban - while being intellectually honest - that will make a difference (because you can get a gun that does the same thing - or more - in a different cosmetic package) or word one in such a way that will not become a *de facto* ban on ALL guns. And while the latter may be a desirable goal to some minds, there is simply no actual, practical way to make it happen, without setting the military loose on the civilian population in a house-to-house and turning our country into another Afghanistan-style military quagmire.


To be fair, the Mini-14 looks like the rifle from the A-Team and that thing never shot anyone.
2012-12-21 10:29:19 AM
3 votes:
i.imgur.com
2012-12-21 10:26:14 AM
3 votes:
I prefer the AK-47 because it's better than the AR-15 by 32.
2012-12-21 10:21:37 AM
3 votes:
25.media.tumblr.com
2012-12-21 10:12:35 AM
3 votes:
They forgot the part where Obama subsidized it's development by Hilter-corp LLC using taxpayer dollars.
2012-12-21 11:18:49 AM
2 votes:

FightDirector: They are, functionally, the SAME FARKING GUN.


Ummm...excuse me, one has the shoulder thing that goes up and the other does not!!!
2012-12-21 10:39:32 AM
2 votes:

BolshyGreatYarblocks: A lot of American servicemen died in Vietnam because the North Vietnamese soldiers' AK-47s kept jamming? Is that the difference?


I worked with a Vietnam vet, and once we got into a semi-serious discussion at the end of a staff meeting
of what weapon we'd use if we ever decided to gun down our coworkers.

I was firmly in the AK-47 camp since it is very reliable.  My coworker was a staunch defender of the M-16,
saying that the only reason it got a bad reputation was that it was given to Marines who didn't know how
to clean them properly.

In the end, we mutually decided that since really loved and respected our officemates as people we'd use
a machete.

Meanwhile, our then-new supervisor was sitting in the corner, shaking his head and saying "Guys, you
know I'm supposed to report this, right?"  Thankfully, it later turned out he was just as much a weirdo
reprobate as anyone on our team, and he was a great boss for 2 years.

/Nowadays, though, there probably would have been a SWAT team waiting in our cubicles.
2012-12-21 10:26:32 AM
2 votes:
It's funny when gun nuts act like knowing things about guns suffices for intelligence.
2012-12-21 10:17:12 AM
2 votes:
Waaaah, get the name of my toys right. Don't want me to snap and start using them. Waaaah
2012-12-21 10:10:20 AM
2 votes:
talkingpointsmemo.com

As opposed to, you know.... the other type of gun.
2012-12-21 10:08:33 AM
2 votes:

I mean, they're both assault rifles


*groinpunch*
*groinpunch*
*groinpunch*
*groinpunch*
*groinpunch*
*groinpunch*
*groinpunch*
*groinpunch*

yourenothelping.jpg
2012-12-21 04:31:50 PM
1 votes:

Southern100: LeMat was a 9-shot wasn't it?


Nine shots in the cylinder, one in the central barrel.
2012-12-21 02:44:43 PM
1 votes:

Artisan Sandwich: mizchief: hobnail: Question for the gun enthusiasts here. TFA mentions that the AR-15 is popular for home defense. Why is this?

Personally I'd rather have a lightweight 20 gauge-- more chance of hitting the target, and less likely to penetrate my neighbors' houses.

Just wondering.


/not a nut, either pro- or anti- guns

Would depend on your house. My parents have a really long hall way (about 20 yards) the leads from the front and back doors to where the bed rooms are. Best way to defend against an intruder would be to post up behind a door frame where you have a stack of 2'x4's that could help stop bullets the intruder fires back, and then take him out at range, vs. getting up close and personal where the bad guy is most likely carrying a pistol and has a better chance of hitting you.

You are the reason that people think of gun owners as nutty. Your masturbation fantasy is pretty specific. What color socks is the bad guy wearing? What does he look like when you shoot him? Please tell.


Someone asked for an example of how an AR-15 would be good for home defense so I gave one. Simple as that. It's not my fault if it gave you a chubby.
2012-12-21 02:20:06 PM
1 votes:

Southern100: chuckufarlie: What happened that turned you into a whimpering coward? Why do you live in constant fear for your life while at the same time, you do not give a rat's ass about the lives of school children? It takes a real man to hide behind a bunch of children because you think somebody is out to kill you.

As I said earlier in this thread, hundreds of school children are killed every year by drunk drivers. Are you going equally fight for a nationwide ban on all alcohol products?

If not, why not? IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN!


Yes. I want to ban Gin and red cars. It's not a catch all, but if it saves JUST ONE LIFE its worth it. After all, A CHILD IS DEAD . What are you going to do about it? Ban Red cars and Gin! Ban them!
2012-12-21 12:48:24 PM
1 votes:
I'm against automobile deaths

Therefore I am sending a bill to the state legislature to ban all red cars.

You can argue all you want but there statistics that red cars get more speeding tickets than any other color and if this law prevents just 1, - JUST 1 - death then it's worth it.

right?

/ask me about my plan to ban Gin to prevent alcholism.
2012-12-21 12:10:02 PM
1 votes:

lordjupiter: [i.imgur.com image 633x728]


or photoshopped jpegs.
2012-12-21 11:46:32 AM
1 votes:

Duelist: Even if I have a 100 guns. How many can I carry/use at a time anyway? If you want to mow down a lot of people you want 1 gun with a lot of reloads. Then a spare in case of fouling. It is better if it takes the same ammo, but that may be impractical.


Well, with a bit of work, effort, welding, machining, and some assembly, you probably could fire them all at once. It wouldn't be particularly practical, but it's doable.
2012-12-21 11:42:57 AM
1 votes:

please: Thunderpipes: Why is a flash suppressor so bad? Always been curious about that. My M1A is not legal in CA because of that. Has there ever, even once, in this country, been a shooting that not having a flash suppressor would have been better?

Nope. Perfect example of people who have no idea what they are talking about making regs about guns.


My favorite was using the 'bayonet lug' as one of the criteria for designating a weapon as an 'assault weapon'.

Because of all the drive by bayonetings we were getting
2012-12-21 11:34:24 AM
1 votes:

Magorn: Dimensio: T.M.S.: "Assault Rifle" is up there with "politically correct". Two terms that were stupid to coin in the first place and today are only used by those that feel oppressed by them.

"Assault rifle" is a technical term with an established definition.

"Assault weapon" is a poor term with no established definition that is intentionally utilized to confuse civilian sporting rifles with military weapons.

How about we call it "Diet assault rifle" and call it a day?  Would you be happy then.   For one of of three positions on its selector switch the M-16 is functionally identical to the AR-15


Actually, for two of the three: Safe, and semi-auto.
2012-12-21 11:30:03 AM
1 votes:
So I've been "assaulting" coyotes all these years? Huh.
2012-12-21 11:25:02 AM
1 votes:

Green Scorpio: dittybopper: I like to point out to people that guns are like golf clubs: You wouldn't play golf with just a 9 iron in your bag, would you? Of course not, you'd have clubs for all sorts of situations, woods, irons, at least one putter, a sand wedge, etc. Guns are the same way: They are all optimized for different situations. You wouldn't try to hunt pronghorns out west with an SKS, just like you wouldn't hunt swamp deer with a bolt action with a 10-power scope on it. You wouldn't use a .22 LR to hunt Elk or Moose, and you wouldn't use a .338 to hunt squirrels.

You can kill someone with a golf club too. Maybe we should look into banning them


If you saw me attempt to play golf, you would.
2012-12-21 10:59:44 AM
1 votes:

Evil Twin Skippy: Dimensio: Additional perspective is helpful:

2011 murder statistics, weapon used:

Rifle (any rifle, not just "assault weapons): 323
Knife or other cutting tool: 1,694
Unarmed attacks (hands, fists, feet, etc): 728

And handguns?


6,220
2012-12-21 10:58:36 AM
1 votes:

Evil Twin Skippy: As a fan of guns, I still can't understand why any civilian needs a 30 round clip.

We were at the range the other day with some friends, shooting some old .22 and a pistol. At the end of the range were two guys firing off an AR-15. (One of them was an instructor, methinks.) I have to admit, I gave it more than a good look. It was a nice firearm, and in the hands of an idiot he was making groupings that embarrassed we who were shooting Boy scout grade rifles with iron sights.

Still, in a range setting, that puppy was WAY out of place. Somebody buying that thing is not in the same league with recreational shooters, hunters, and the like. That gun is really only good for mowing down human beings at a lot of them. It doesn't have the stopping power for big game. It is overkill for small game. There are even rules for bird hunting that limit shotguns to a 3 round magazine. 30 rounds is military load out, and has no place outside of war.


You are what is known as a "Fudd".
2012-12-21 10:51:00 AM
1 votes:
Loader device?

We have gotten so bad people are too lazy to manually load a magazine?
2012-12-21 10:49:33 AM
1 votes:

Gosling: Dimensio: Are you saying that she would not have purchased a functionally equivalent firearm had "Bushmaster" brand rifles been prohibited?

She was a doomsday prepper. She would probably have bought ALL the guns if she had the chance, and all the other weapons up to and including Kung Lao's razor hat.

Personally, part of the legislation I'd push for would include a limit on how many guns a specific person can own. There's no reason I can see why someone needs to have dozens and dozens of guns in the house. And a lot of these shootings involve the shooter amassing half an arsenal.


What limit would you recommend, and what demonstrable benefit would result?
2012-12-21 10:38:31 AM
1 votes:
Fark it, I'll make my own guns.

englishrussia.com

englishrussia.com

englishrussia.com

englishrussia.com

englishrussia.com

/From link
2012-12-21 10:36:15 AM
1 votes:

Endive Wombat: [i51.tinypic.com image 640x533]
I still shake my head that during the height of the coverage of Sandy Hook, Megyn Kelly at Fox reported that the shooter is suspected to have a 9mm handgun and a Glock.


Well, to be fair, her statement was accurate. He indeed had a 9mm Sig and a 10mm Glock. Since the Glock wasn't also a 9mm, nor was it a Sig Sauer, it does belong to a different set than "9mm handgun", and the Sig does not belong to the discrete set "Glock", thus her statement was factually correct.
2012-12-21 10:35:10 AM
1 votes:
Once owned a Bushmaster CAR-15, never fired a shot in anger, never owned a PitBull either.

Do we get a description of the history of the car used to run over people at a farmers market?
2012-12-21 10:34:33 AM
1 votes:
As a fan of guns, I still can't understand why any civilian needs a 30 round clip.

We were at the range the other day with some friends, shooting some old .22 and a pistol. At the end of the range were two guys firing off an AR-15. (One of them was an instructor, methinks.) I have to admit, I gave it more than a good look. It was a nice firearm, and in the hands of an idiot he was making groupings that embarrassed we who were shooting Boy scout grade rifles with iron sights.

Still, in a range setting, that puppy was WAY out of place. Somebody buying that thing is not in the same league with recreational shooters, hunters, and the like. That gun is really only good for mowing down human beings at a lot of them. It doesn't have the stopping power for big game. It is overkill for small game. There are even rules for bird hunting that limit shotguns to a 3 round magazine. 30 rounds is military load out, and has no place outside of war.
2012-12-21 10:33:06 AM
1 votes:
i51.tinypic.com
I still shake my head that during the height of the coverage of Sandy Hook, Megyn Kelly at Fox reported that the shooter is suspected to have a 9mm handgun and a Glock.
2012-12-21 10:31:02 AM
1 votes:
About that mistaken identity...
img.tapatalk.com
/hot
2012-12-21 10:30:36 AM
1 votes:

bungle_jr: LasersHurt: You and I all know that there is no term which would be found generally acceptable for semi-auto civilian versions of military weapons.

i always thought "gun" was a perfect word. succinct, correct, poignant, with undertones of oak and berries


You're right. I should only call my car a "car". If someone asks me to describe the car, I should not say "sedan". I should absolutely not mention that it has a "V6". No, "car" will do. I will vigorously object to any attempts to separate my car from other cars. Car will describe a Mack truck just as well it describes my car.

In fact, why even go that far? "Vehicle" should cover it. Why have different words to describe my car and a dune buggy? Aren't they both just vehicles?

Hell, why do we need the word "vehicle", for that matter? I drove my "object" to "place" today. That should be just fine.
2012-12-21 10:30:09 AM
1 votes:
www.enemyplanet.com
2012-12-21 10:28:31 AM
1 votes:
Guns for some, tiny American flags for others!
2012-12-21 10:26:22 AM
1 votes:

LasersHurt: You and I all know that there is no term which would be found generally acceptable for semi-auto civilian versions of military weapons.


i always thought "gun" was a perfect word. succinct, correct, poignant, with undertones of oak and berries
2012-12-21 10:24:10 AM
1 votes:

thurstonxhowell: the media can get it right and gun nuts will still whine?

Seriously, is there a whinier group of crybabies than gun owners? I certainly haven't encountered one.


Feminists, vegans, gay rights activists, PETA.

/Just because they're on your side doesn't mean it's not true
2012-12-21 10:23:43 AM
1 votes:
A lot of American servicemen died in Vietnam because the North Vietnamese soldiers' AK-47s kept jamming? Is that the difference?
2012-12-21 10:23:27 AM
1 votes:

CygnusDarius: Honest Bender: [talkingpointsmemo.com image 652x360]

As opposed to, you know.... the other type of gun.

This gun?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 192x290]


I came here to say something similar. Perhaps this kind of gun? (pnsfw)
2012-12-21 10:22:10 AM
1 votes:

Dimensio: "Assault weapon" is a poor term with no established definition that is intentionally utilized to confuse civilian sporting rifles with military weapons.


"Civilian sporting rifle", when used to describe an AR-15, is one of the most ham-fisted attempts at political correctness I've ever seen.
2012-12-21 10:20:19 AM
1 votes:

Champion of the Sun: Waaaah, get the name of my toys right. Don't want me to snap and start using them. Waaaah


But if I chide them on the proper pronunciation of "Boba Fett", I'm a nerd.
2012-12-21 10:20:07 AM
1 votes:
Wait, this guy invented a sentient gun capable of killing people on it's own?
2012-12-21 10:19:24 AM
1 votes:

Rufus Lee King: Oh, God. Not again.


And this. I'd "smart" you, but I refuse to use the farkies and other thread conditioning tools. I like my shiat raw.
2012-12-21 10:18:56 AM
1 votes:
You and I all know that there is no term which would be found generally acceptable for semi-auto civilian versions of military weapons.
2012-12-21 10:17:08 AM
1 votes:
"Assault Rifle" is up there with "politically correct". Two terms that were stupid to coin in the first place and today are only used by those that feel oppressed by them.
2012-12-21 10:13:30 AM
1 votes:

thurstonxhowell: So the media can get it right and gun nuts will still whine?

Seriously, is there a whinier group of crybabies than gun owners? I certainly haven't encountered one.


The blunderbuss was cool, but then it got all popular and stuff and then it sold out and I had to move on to the hwacha.
2012-12-21 10:12:25 AM
1 votes:

Honest Bender: [talkingpointsmemo.com image 652x360]

As opposed to, you know.... the other type of gun.


This gun?

1.bp.blogspot.com
2012-12-21 10:10:35 AM
1 votes:
So the media can get it right and gun nuts will still whine?

Seriously, is there a whinier group of crybabies than gun owners? I certainly haven't encountered one.
2012-12-21 10:09:18 AM
1 votes:
Nic Cage was unavailable to explain the difference between the two?
 
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