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(KATU)   A "concealed weapons" permit doesn't mean you can hide it under the seat in a movie theater   (katu.com) divider line 153
    More: Dumbass, concealed weapons  
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5338 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Dec 2012 at 5:24 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-21 12:23:09 AM
www.oceleb.comwww.oceleb.comwww.oceleb.com
 
2012-12-21 12:32:46 AM
Is that a .380? Seriously? Guy deserves to have his permit pulled. Talk about being irresponsible.
 
2012-12-21 12:35:18 AM
img.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-21 01:14:51 AM
www.celebritiesheight.com

Knows a little about shooting in a movie theater
 
2012-12-21 01:15:22 AM
yafh.com
 
2012-12-21 01:15:48 AM
This exploit of G. Quackenbush
Was due to a potent social push
Any disruption in his fun
Could be met with a gun-
It's amazing he hasn't shot off his tush!
 
2012-12-21 01:43:25 AM
A 7th-grade student found the weapon on Wednesday with a round in the chamber and the safety off.

Glad they pulled his CC license.  The guy is an idiot.
 
2012-12-21 01:47:47 AM
Is he a teacher?
 
2012-12-21 02:45:06 AM
i.dailymail.co.uk

i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2012-12-21 02:49:20 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Is he a teacher?


Armed elementary school teachers are the true wave of our future safety. With their lengthy amount of firearms training and invariably innate steely-nerved and stoic actions, our problems here will soon be over.
 
2012-12-21 02:56:54 AM
 
2012-12-21 05:34:45 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: And he's a licensed gun dealer. But this won't affect THAT license.
And he never called law enforcement but he showed up at the theater the next morning...

Tillamook Sheriff Andy Long told the local paper that the man acted like the weapon 'would be in the lost and found with lost eyeglasses and other things.'


Well of course it would be in the lost and found. With a round in the chamber and the safety off.

This IS Merica, right? I mean, I thought this was Merica? Apparently one lib finds a gun and suddenly this isn't Merica anymore. I want my country back.

cryingeaglewithsparklesandtobykeith.jpg
 
2012-12-21 05:35:30 AM
I forgive him just for panning The Hobbit.
 
2012-12-21 05:45:27 AM
They found the gun under a Quacken bush
or was it under a Crab tree?
 
2012-12-21 05:50:53 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: And he's a licensed gun dealer. But this won't affect THAT license.
And he never called law enforcement but he showed up at the theater the next morning...

Tillamook Sheriff Andy Long told the local paper that the man acted like the weapon 'would be in the lost and found with lost eyeglasses and other things.'


From your first link: "You have people shooting up malls, building bombs," he said. "And I'm the bad guy."

Awww, poor widdle persecuted Quackenbush, I feel so bad for him. It's so unfair that anyone criticize him just for not knowing where his loaded gun was.

*headdesk*
 
2012-12-21 05:50:56 AM

fusillade762: A 7th-grade student found the weapon on Wednesday with a round in the chamber and the safety off.

Glad they pulled his CC license.  The guy is an idiot.


True that.
 
2012-12-21 05:54:21 AM
Jesus that guy got lucky. Two kids finding a weapon with a round in the chamber and the safety off could have gone soooooo much worse. What a moron.
 
2012-12-21 05:55:17 AM
Just in case this turns into a gun rights/2nd Amendment thread...

Can any Fark lawyers explain to me the differnece between 'individual rights' versus 'the people's rights'? I've heard people make arguments based on the interpretation that the 2nd is a 'people's right' and NOT and individual right (i.e. it does not protect an individual's right to bear arms). What I don't get is : how a right can apply to the 'people' but not apply to the individuals that make up the 'people'?

Yeah, that's a serious question and not a troll, so please give a legit answer and not some snarktastic counter-troll. I'd appreciate it.
 
2012-12-21 06:07:39 AM

frankenSTEEN: Just in case this turns into a gun rights/2nd Amendment thread...

Can any Fark lawyers explain to me the differnece between 'individual rights' versus 'the people's rights'? I've heard people make arguments based on the interpretation that the 2nd is a 'people's right' and NOT and individual right (i.e. it does not protect an individual's right to bear arms). What I don't get is : how a right can apply to the 'people' but not apply to the individuals that make up the 'people'?

Yeah, that's a serious question and not a troll, so please give a legit answer and not some snarktastic counter-troll. I'd appreciate it.


Supreme court settled this specifically regarding the Second Amendment. They concluded it is an individual's right.
 
2012-12-21 06:36:50 AM

Mitch Mitchell: fusillade762: A 7th-grade student found the weapon on Wednesday with a round in the chamber and the safety off.

Glad they pulled his CC license.  The guy is an idiot.

True that.


Other than having his CCW where he shouldn't have, and the safety off, I don't see what was wrong about having a round in the chamber. That is standard practice. The hammer (which is internal on most CCW pieces) can only be cocked by pulling the trigger.

The fact that he "forgot" his gun in a theater is reason enough, though. I guess you're right....
 
2012-12-21 06:37:19 AM
I'm guessing he's never actually "had to" fire his weapon to scare off animals. Someone this eager to shoot something (the safety off? Really?) probably wanders around taking potshots at squirrels because "It was coming right at me!"
 
2012-12-21 06:42:47 AM
FTFA:"In a time of crisis like somebody barging into a mall or a theater, you don't have time to do a two-handed cocking of the weapon," Quackenbush said. "It is my mindset everywhere I go."

If you're that freaking paranoid you are exactly the kind of person who should not be carrying a firearm... nor leaving your house.
 
2012-12-21 06:49:09 AM
As an owner of many weapons myself, including firearms, and that has lived in questionable neighborhoods throughout California for years, I can honestly say I've never felt the need to actually carry a weapon deadlier than a pocket knife (deadly only to whole apples! RAWR!) with me anywhere. If someone does feel that need, they need to woman up or move.

I can't stand irresponsible gun owners anyway. They make all of us look bad, and that's a shame. We don't deserve the bad rep the dipshiats give us by simple association of owning guns.
 
2012-12-21 06:51:19 AM

Whole Wheat: Mitch Mitchell: fusillade762: A 7th-grade student found the weapon on Wednesday with a round in the chamber and the safety off.

Glad they pulled his CC license.  The guy is an idiot.

True that.

Other than having his CCW where he shouldn't have, and the safety off, I don't see what was wrong about having a round in the chamber. That is standard practice. The hammer (which is internal on most CCW pieces) can only be cocked by pulling the trigger.

The fact that he "forgot" his gun in a theater is reason enough, though. I guess you're right....


It might be standard practice for law enforcement, but grandpa has no business keeping a round in the chamber. It only takes a split second to chamber a round if it's needed. Keeping a round in the chamber increases exponentially the possibility of an accidental discharge.

And without the safety on, this was an accident waiting to happen.
 
2012-12-21 07:03:32 AM
America, it's idiots like this are why you can't have nice things

/I like guns and swords, but that doesn't mean it's a bright idea to bring them wherever I go
 
2012-12-21 07:07:43 AM
Don't tell me where I can and can't conceal my gun, mkay King George?
 
2012-12-21 07:18:33 AM

dickfreckle: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Is he a teacher?

Armed elementary school teachers are the true wave of our future safety. With their lengthy amount of firearms training and invariably innate steely-nerved and stoic actions, our problems here will soon be over.


Fark you, you piece of shiat.

I mean really. I get this is fark.com, the home of the truly demented. But I think you just pole vaulted over whatever line in the sand they draw here for maintaining some type of decency.

Anne Marie Murphy-"Church bells tolled Thursday for a brave Sandy Hook Elementary School teacher who died while trying to protect the student in her arms."

Victoria Soto- who was buried on Wednesday also died trying to protect her students. Seven kids she hid in a classroom closet survived the slaughter.
 
2012-12-21 07:22:24 AM

Real Women Drink Akvavit: I can't stand irresponsible gun owners anyway. They make all of us look bad, and that's a shame. We don't deserve the bad rep the dipshiats give us by simple association of owning guns.


This guy [in the article] is the type of moron I immediately think of when people talk about arming teachers and college students and everyone else in the country.

Would most people be responsible? Sure. But all it takes is one moron to kill another kid, or shoot a bystander on accident.
 
2012-12-21 07:23:17 AM
Of the movie "The Hobbit," his review in a letter to news media organizations explaining the incident was brief: "Overly long," he said, "and fairly boring."

Well, I'm glad he included that important bit of info, because if there's one movie critic whose opinion you can trust, it's a senile old gun-nut who has abandoned his loaded safety-off weapon in a theater full of children!

By any chance, did he review the theater's overpriced food and drinks, as well??
 
2012-12-21 07:26:34 AM
i49.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-21 07:32:09 AM
I don't care about the round chambered and safety off, the gun isn't going to just fire on it's own, it's the complete lack of positive control of the weapon at all times. How in the f*ck do you leave it in a theater and not realize it till the next day? Not only that but why the f*ck did he unholster it???

Throw this f*cking idiot in jail and let the inmates teach him positive control.
 
2012-12-21 07:47:20 AM

born_yesterday: This guy [in the article] is the type of moron I immediately think of when people talk about arming teachers and college students and everyone else in the country.


He's the type I think of when I hear about "legal gun-owners who've never committed a crime."

Nancy Lanza is another.

/ok, not only them...
 
2012-12-21 07:49:58 AM
That's why it's better to carry assault weapons. Just sling it in front of you so you won't forget it.
 
2012-12-21 07:51:38 AM
not all teachers, but senior teachers and staff should be given concealed firearms and be trained like police officers. After all, they are guarding your kids.
 
2012-12-21 07:53:32 AM
.380? That better have been a PPK or he's up for losing man points as well...
 
2012-12-21 07:56:48 AM

Ghastly: FTFA:"In a time of crisis like somebody barging into a mall or a theater, you don't have time to do a two-handed cocking of the weapon," Quackenbush said. "It is my mindset everywhere I go."

If you're that freaking paranoid you are exactly the kind of person who should not be carrying a firearm... nor leaving your house.


Good point. What kind of paranoid whacko thinks someone might come into a theater looking to shoot people. That hasn't happened since, uh, Sunday?
 
2012-12-21 08:00:38 AM

Subtle_Canary: .380? That better have been a PPK or he's up for losing man points as well...


Beretta.
 
2012-12-21 08:03:04 AM
"Well regulated militia" my ass. This guy shouldn't have a license to drive much less a CHP.
 
2012-12-21 08:04:39 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Subtle_Canary: .380? That better have been a PPK or he's up for losing man points as well...

Beretta.


So a Beretta Cheetah most likely. He needs to be thrown in jail for the rest of his life.
 
2012-12-21 08:04:55 AM

born_yesterday: Real Women Drink Akvavit: I can't stand irresponsible gun owners anyway. They make all of us look bad, and that's a shame. We don't deserve the bad rep the dipshiats give us by simple association of owning guns.

This guy [in the article] is the type of moron I immediately think of when people talk about arming teachers and college students and everyone else in the country.

Would most people be responsible? Sure. But all it takes is one moron to kill another kid, or shoot a bystander on accident.


Most gun owners are responsible, we're supposed to be, but there are plenty of morons with guns as well. A friend, who also shoots, went up to an open gun range the next county up and saw a man bringing a child of maybe 6 or 7 (her estimation, I thankfully was not there) and said she thought "good, the child needs to learn firearm safety if they've got firearms" to herself in her head. She said they were only a bit down from her and she was kind of watching them out of the corner of her eye. The kid finally got to shoot the gun, got off one shot, and promptly burst into tears. Poor kid was just scared. The man, which she assumed was his dad, flipped out, took the gun away, and started wildly waving his hands in the air while yelling at the kid,  all with a farking loaded gun in one of his hands. She said she's never seen so many people kiss dirt so fast, they were all so freaked out by it.

This is why even though I support gun rights, I think there should be a class and/or some tests before you're allowed to even touch any firearms. That dude was obviously a hazard to himself or others or quite possibly both, he was such a moron.

/yeah, the range master threw him out
GOOD.
 
2012-12-21 08:20:08 AM

Aces and Eights: Whole Wheat: Mitch Mitchell: fusillade762: A 7th-grade student found the weapon on Wednesday with a round in the chamber and the safety off.

Glad they pulled his CC license.  The guy is an idiot.

True that.

Other than having his CCW where he shouldn't have, and the safety off, I don't see what was wrong about having a round in the chamber. That is standard practice. The hammer (which is internal on most CCW pieces) can only be cocked by pulling the trigger.

The fact that he "forgot" his gun in a theater is reason enough, though. I guess you're right....

It might be standard practice for law enforcement, but grandpa has no business keeping a round in the chamber. It only takes a split second to chamber a round if it's needed. Keeping a round in the chamber increases exponentially the possibility of an accidental discharge.

And without the safety on, this was an accident waiting to happen.


No, really, carrying a double action only with a round in the chamber is safe for a responsible CCW holder. Gramps doesn't fall in that category.
 
2012-12-21 08:20:45 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Subtle_Canary: .380? That better have been a PPK or he's up for losing man points as well...

Beretta.


Mod. 84, very nice.
 
2012-12-21 08:27:14 AM
Gun owners, you have a problem. If you believe in any increased restrictions on gun ownership or use you need to speak up, often and loudly.

Otherwise your voice will be represented by this guy:

static01.mediaite.com

...and Mr. Quackenbush.
 
2012-12-21 08:31:29 AM
www.imaginaryyear.coml
is not amused
 
2012-12-21 08:36:35 AM
FTFA: Of the movie "The Hobbit," his review in a letter to news media organizations explaining the incident was brief: "Overly long," he said, "and fairly boring."

The lame print journalist equivalent of contrived humour at the end of a cartoon.

www.turnermediainnovations.com
 
2012-12-21 08:41:11 AM
Had a conversation with a man at work yesterday who said that even though he already has guns, after what happened last week he's buying more.

I was thinking of telling him he should just buy more magazines for the guns he already has and keep them filled but I didn't want to give him any more ideas...
 
2012-12-21 08:41:47 AM
The real problem here is obvious, he wasn't armed as he went home that night. What if some punk, had held a gun on him and he was there defenseless. If you conceal carry it is your duty to carry two weapons in case just this scenario happens to you.

/think of the children!
 
2012-12-21 08:42:39 AM
Everyone agrees that someone like this should have his weapons taken away from him. What's interesting is that not everyone agrees that we should try to keep someone like this from getting weapons in the first place.
 
2012-12-21 08:43:03 AM
"Of the movie "The Hobbit," his review in a letter to news media organizations explaining the incident was brief: "Overly long," he said, "and fairly boring.""

Jeebus, he sounds like my ex-wife because she said the same thing about my penis.
 
2012-12-21 08:43:25 AM

RickN99: Ghastly: FTFA:"In a time of crisis like somebody barging into a mall or a theater, you don't have time to do a two-handed cocking of the weapon," Quackenbush said. "It is my mindset everywhere I go."

If you're that freaking paranoid you are exactly the kind of person who should not be carrying a firearm... nor leaving your house.

Good point. What kind of paranoid whacko thinks someone might come into a theater looking to shoot people. That hasn't happened since, uh, Sunday?


Paranoid enough to carry a chambered round with the safety off? Sorry but that's all kinds of farking stupid. He's lucky he hasn't shot himself or someone else already.
 
2012-12-21 08:46:43 AM
"In a time of crisis like somebody barging into a mall or a theater, you don't have time to do a two-handed cocking of the weapon," Quackenbush said. "It is my mindset everywhere I go."

This man is a hero and a responsible gun owner.


/get ready for more and more of this
 
2012-12-21 08:49:15 AM
Quackenbush can reapply for a concealed-weapons permit as long as criminal charges aren't pending, Long said.

"He shouldn't apply for it soon," Long said.


Well then, he needs to tell Sheriff Long to go pound salt, and just legally open carry instead. Problem solved.
 
2012-12-21 08:51:05 AM

Aces and Eights: Whole Wheat: Mitch Mitchell: fusillade762: A 7th-grade student found the weapon on Wednesday with a round in the chamber and the safety off.

Glad they pulled his CC license.  The guy is an idiot.

True that.

Other than having his CCW where he shouldn't have, and the safety off, I don't see what was wrong about having a round in the chamber. That is standard practice. The hammer (which is internal on most CCW pieces) can only be cocked by pulling the trigger.

The fact that he "forgot" his gun in a theater is reason enough, though. I guess you're right....

It might be standard practice for law enforcement, but grandpa has no business keeping a round in the chamber. It only takes a split second to chamber a round if it's needed. Keeping a round in the chamber increases exponentially the possibility of an accidental discharge.

And without the safety on, this was an accident waiting to happen.


An unchambered firearm is a glorified paper weight, useless.

If the purpose of the firearm is for my protection or protecting the life of another, I'm going to need that weapon to function properly immediately, not after I load the magazine and pull the slide back to make it ready (while in an obvious critical situation if I'm needing to use deadly force)

Think a little more about why an officer keeps that weapon ready.

Accidental discharge, is more accurately negligent discharge. The weapon does not fire by accident.
 
2012-12-21 08:51:26 AM

Ghastly: RickN99: Ghastly: FTFA:"In a time of crisis like somebody barging into a mall or a theater, you don't have time to do a two-handed cocking of the weapon," Quackenbush said. "It is my mindset everywhere I go."

If you're that freaking paranoid you are exactly the kind of person who should not be carrying a firearm... nor leaving your house.

Good point. What kind of paranoid whacko thinks someone might come into a theater looking to shoot people. That hasn't happened since, uh, Sunday?

Paranoid enough to carry a chambered round with the safety off? Sorry but that's all kinds of farking stupid. He's lucky he hasn't shot himself or someone else already.


He sounds like just the kind of "hero" we should have firing rounds from a .380 in a dark room full of innocent bystanders.
 
2012-12-21 08:52:06 AM

Carn: Everyone agrees that someone like this should have his weapons taken away from him. What's interesting is that not everyone agrees that we should try to keep someone like this from getting weapons in the first place.


Judging by the number of gun fans on Fark, if that was the case, you'd be trying to keep guns away from the majority of the American population.
 
2012-12-21 08:52:58 AM

Ghastly: Paranoid enough to carry a chambered round with the safety off? Sorry but that's all kinds of farking stupid. He's lucky he hasn't shot himself or someone else already.


Some guns don't even have a safety that can be turned on or off. If it's a CCW you always have around in the chamber. You know all those cops you see, if they own a glock the have the safety "off" and a round in the chamber too.

/you don't know what you are talking about.
 
2012-12-21 08:59:15 AM

Basily Gourt: dickfreckle: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Is he a teacher?

Armed elementary school teachers are the true wave of our future safety. With their lengthy amount of firearms training and invariably innate steely-nerved and stoic actions, our problems here will soon be over.

Fark you, you piece of shiat.

I mean really. I get this is fark.com, the home of the truly demented. But I think you just pole vaulted over whatever line in the sand they draw here for maintaining some type of decency.

Anne Marie Murphy-"Church bells tolled Thursday for a brave Sandy Hook Elementary School teacher who died while trying to protect the student in her arms."

Victoria Soto- who was buried on Wednesday also died trying to protect her students. Seven kids she hid in a classroom closet survived the slaughter.


Holy crap, man, did you not the blatant sarcasm of my post? Not a single word was intended to be taken seriously. You may have over-reacted.
 
2012-12-21 09:01:31 AM

MagicMissile: not all teachers, but senior teachers and staff should be given concealed firearms and be trained like police officers. After all, they are guarding your kids.


We had cops in my high school. It was a big school, and they were there just in case. They were all generally pretty cool guys. One of them used to act in the school musical every year. Perhaps putting an actual cop in a school would be safer?
 
2012-12-21 09:03:53 AM

Aces and Eights: Whole Wheat: Mitch Mitchell: fusillade762: A 7th-grade student found the weapon on Wednesday with a round in the chamber and the safety off.

Glad they pulled his CC license.  The guy is an idiot.

True that.

Other than having his CCW where he shouldn't have, and the safety off, I don't see what was wrong about having a round in the chamber. That is standard practice. The hammer (which is internal on most CCW pieces) can only be cocked by pulling the trigger.

The fact that he "forgot" his gun in a theater is reason enough, though. I guess you're right....

It might be standard practice for law enforcement, but grandpa has no business keeping a round in the chamber. It only takes a split second to chamber a round if it's needed. Keeping a round in the chamber increases exponentially the possibility of an accidental discharge.

And without the safety on, this was an accident waiting to happen.


Also,

A situation that becomes critical and would require the use of deadly force to protect myself or another does not escalate gradually over time, it's instant.

Example

How much time did he have to load and make that weapon ready?
 
2012-12-21 09:04:40 AM
TFA: "In a time of crisis like somebody barging into a mall or a theater, you don't have time to do a two-handed cocking of the weapon," Quackenbush said. "It is my mindset everywhere I go."

This man represents everything that is wrong with America.

The very idea (which is unfortunately widespread) that we need to be packing a concealed weapon at all times, as we go about our day-to-day lives, represents a rejection of the very idea of civil society. It is a philosophy in which other people are viewed not as fellow citizens, but as potential enemies.

If we need to be going around armed at all times for self-defense, then we have failed as a society, as a country, and as a civilization. If that is true, then we are a failed state.
 
2012-12-21 09:05:39 AM
Just like all the cops that leave their guns in the shiatter, right?
 
2012-12-21 09:06:47 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Gun owners, you have a are the problem.


FTFY
 
2012-12-21 09:07:01 AM

Solaris: An unchambered firearm is a glorified paper weight, useless.

If the purpose of the firearm is for my protection or protecting the life of another, I'm going to need that weapon to function properly immediately, not after I load the magazine and pull the slide back to make it ready (while in an obvious critical situation if I'm needing to use deadly force)

Think a little more about why an officer keeps that weapon ready.

Accidental discharge, is more accurately negligent discharge. The weapon does not fire by accident.


Doc Daneeka: This man represents everything that is wrong with America.

The very idea (which is unfortunately widespread) that we need to be packing a concealed weapon at all times, as we go about our day-to-day lives, represents a rejection of the very idea of civil society. It is a philosophy in which other people are viewed not as fellow citizens, but as potential enemies.

If we need to be going around armed at all times for self-defense, then we have failed as a society, as a country, and as a civilization. If that is true, then we are a failed state.

 
2012-12-21 09:09:12 AM

frankenSTEEN: Just in case this turns into a gun rights/2nd Amendment thread...

Can any Fark lawyers explain to me the differnece between 'individual rights' versus 'the people's rights'? I've heard people make arguments based on the interpretation that the 2nd is a 'people's right' and NOT and individual right (i.e. it does not protect an individual's right to bear arms). What I don't get is : how a right can apply to the 'people' but not apply to the individuals that make up the 'people'?

Yeah, that's a serious question and not a troll, so please give a legit answer and not some snarktastic counter-troll. I'd appreciate it.


The problem with the second amendment is that it is an extremely vague, one sentence statement. Try to read this without a "progun" or "antigun" hat on, and tell me it isn't confusing:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

It's one relatively short sentence with four commas. The question is whether the amendment's purpose is to protect collective rights - the "well regulated militia" that is necessary to the security of a free "State" -- or whether the purpose of the amendment was to protect each individual citizen's right to own a firearm. It's important to remember that the bill of rights contains provisions to protect the states against federal power, as well as provisions protecting individuals. And at the time, the country was a collection of thirteen sovereign nations, each of which had its own standing militia. So some of the amendments seem silly when viewed by modern society - for example, the third amendment prohibits the quartering of soldiers in homes, which simply isn't a problem in modern society. Today, nobody really cares about the militia part. But plenty of people want to read the second amendment in a way that (arguably) ignores the first half of the sentence.

But at the end of the day, the problem with the second amendment is that it's extremely vague. If you were writing an amendment regarding gun ownership today, what would it look like? Would you say "The right of individual citizens to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed?" Well, in that case, what does "arms" mean? Does an individual have the right to own a tank? a nuclear weapon? Or is it just limited to firearms? If it is limited to firearms, do citizens have the right to own .50 caliber machine guns? artillery? The problem is that (1) the second amendment is very short, and very vague, and (2) it doesn't make much sense in the context of modern society.

I am of the view that the Second Amendment was intended to preserve the rights of the states to have well-regulated militias, to ease the concerns of anti-federalists who were worried that the federal government may get too powerful by disbanding the militias and raising a standing army. Why do I think that? Because it is one sentence that immediately announces its purpose - preserving the right of the people to operate "well-regulated militias." A militia is "regulated" by the state, which expresses the will of its citizens. So in that sense, the word "people" as used in the amendment has the same as "we the people" in the preamble of the constitution - it refers to the "people" in the collective sense. The right of the "people" in the second amendment is referring to the citizens of the states (through their state governments).

But like I said, this is all up for debate. And the reason the second amendment can be interpreted in so many different ways


Throughout our nation's history, the second amendment has never been interpreted by the supreme court as granting an individual right - that is, until the Heller opinion. Before Heller, the Courts have Up to that point, the courts have always understood it as reserving rights to the states to operate well-regulated militias. The Bill of Rights has to be read in context.
 
2012-12-21 09:09:35 AM
Stricter gun control and stricter breeding control.

/u-farking-topia
 
2012-12-21 09:10:33 AM
So this happens all the time right? I'm sure it was only reported on this time because of the current 'guns guns guns!' fever.
 
2012-12-21 09:11:35 AM
"In a time of crisis like somebody barging into a mall or a theater, you don't have time to do a two-handed cocking of the weapon," Quackenbush said. "It is my mindset everywhere I go."

That's the spirit! If only more people followed this example, the US would much safer. Safeties off, everyone!

:-(
 
2012-12-21 09:12:29 AM

Doc Daneeka: TFA: "In a time of crisis like somebody barging into a mall or a theater, you don't have time to do a two-handed cocking of the weapon," Quackenbush said. "It is my mindset everywhere I go."

This man represents everything that is wrong with America.

The very idea (which is unfortunately widespread) that we need to be packing a concealed weapon at all times, as we go about our day-to-day lives, represents a rejection of the very idea of civil society. It is a philosophy in which other people are viewed not as fellow citizens, but as potential enemies.

If we need to be going around armed at all times for self-defense, then we have failed as a society, as a country, and as a civilization. If that is true, then we are a failed state.


You are correct. In civilized, sane, societies, citizens submit to the whims of violent attackers.
 
2012-12-21 09:13:32 AM

Doc Daneeka: TFA: "In a time of crisis like somebody barging into a mall or a theater, you don't have time to do a two-handed cocking of the weapon," Quackenbush said. "It is my mindset everywhere I go."

This man represents everything that is wrong with America.

The very idea (which is unfortunately widespread) that we need to be packing a concealed weapon at all times, as we go about our day-to-day lives, represents a rejection of the very idea of civil society. It is a philosophy in which other people are viewed not as fellow citizens, but as potential enemies.

If we need to be going around armed at all times for self-defense, then we have failed as a society, as a country, and as a civilization. If that is true, then we are a failed state.



Exactly. I think the problem is that too many people nowadays live and breathe our entertainment culture, and have convinced themselves in their own minds that real life resembles an action movie or video game. So they sit there and daydream about what sort of bold action they'd take if a shooter or group of terrorists walked in. They fantasize that they'd take down the terrorist and be the big hero, just like in the movies. It's absurd, and completely divorced from reality.
 
2012-12-21 09:14:05 AM

born_yesterday: Solaris: An unchambered firearm is a glorified paper weight, useless.

If the purpose of the firearm is for my protection or protecting the life of another, I'm going to need that weapon to function properly immediately, not after I load the magazine and pull the slide back to make it ready (while in an obvious critical situation if I'm needing to use deadly force)

Think a little more about why an officer keeps that weapon ready.

Accidental discharge, is more accurately negligent discharge. The weapon does not fire by accident.

Doc Daneeka: This man represents everything that is wrong with America.

The very idea (which is unfortunately widespread) that we need to be packing a concealed weapon at all times, as we go about our day-to-day lives, represents a rejection of the very idea of civil society. It is a philosophy in which other people are viewed not as fellow citizens, but as potential enemies.

If we need to be going around armed at all times for self-defense, then we have failed as a society, as a country, and as a civilization. If that is true, then we are a failed state.


I hope all those happy thoughts help maintain civility when someone threatens your life.

It's not a rejection of the idea of a civil society, but a recognition that in this society there are people who may try to disrupt my very existence.

My firearm rejects their attempt to disrupt my civility
 
2012-12-21 09:15:41 AM

opiumpoopy: "In a time of crisis like somebody barging into a mall or a theater, you don't have time to do a two-handed cocking of the weapon," Quackenbush said. "It is my mindset everywhere I go."

That's the spirit! If only more people followed this example, the US would much safer. Safeties off, everyone!

:-(


shiat, why holster it at all. You're just cutting into your reaction time! And wouldn't seeing a mall full of people with weapons ready, safety off, and fingers on the trigger discourage you from doing anything crazy?

It's the only way to protect our society from insanity.
 
2012-12-21 09:16:46 AM

Dimensio: Doc Daneeka: TFA: "In a time of crisis like somebody barging into a mall or a theater, you don't have time to do a two-handed cocking of the weapon," Quackenbush said. "It is my mindset everywhere I go."

This man represents everything that is wrong with America.

The very idea (which is unfortunately widespread) that we need to be packing a concealed weapon at all times, as we go about our day-to-day lives, represents a rejection of the very idea of civil society. It is a philosophy in which other people are viewed not as fellow citizens, but as potential enemies.

If we need to be going around armed at all times for self-defense, then we have failed as a society, as a country, and as a civilization. If that is true, then we are a failed state.

You are correct. In civilized, sane, societies, citizens submit to the whims of violent attackers.


This has got to be rough for you. Your pedantry doesn't play so well when running defense.
 
2012-12-21 09:16:51 AM

lewismarktwo: So this happens all the time right? I'm sure it was only reported on this time because of the current 'guns guns guns!' fever.


It does. Or at least, it happens a hell of a lot more often than gun being used for any legitimate self-defense purpose.

For every single time a gun is used in self defense, there are:
-four accidental shootings
-seven criminal assaults or homicides
-eleven attempted or completed suicides
(source)

A gun kept in a household is twelve times more likely to result in the death of a household member or a visitor than an intruder.
(source)
 
2012-12-21 09:17:21 AM

Chummer45: Throughout our nation's history, the second amendment has never been interpreted by the supreme court as granting an individual right - that is, until the Heller opinion. Before Heller, the Courts have Up to that point, the courts have always understood it as reserving rights to the states to operate well-regulated militias. The Bill of Rights has to be read in context.


Which other Amendments of the Bill of Rights "grant" rights to states, rather than recognize and protect rights of individuals?
 
2012-12-21 09:18:12 AM

Doc Daneeka: lewismarktwo: So this happens all the time right? I'm sure it was only reported on this time because of the current 'guns guns guns!' fever.

It does. Or at least, it happens a hell of a lot more often than gun being used for any legitimate self-defense purpose.

For every single time a gun is used in self defense, there are:
-four accidental shootings
-seven criminal assaults or homicides
-eleven attempted or completed suicides
(source)

A gun kept in a household is twelve times more likely to result in the death of a household member or a visitor than an intruder.
(source)


Overzealous firearms. Non-story.
 
2012-12-21 09:18:16 AM
FTFA: Police revoked the concealed-weapons permit of a 61-year-old Tillamook man after he wriggled in his theater seat during a showing of "The Hobbit" and shook loose a loaded handgun.

Oh, that's not so bad. Bad in that he didn't have it secure in its concealed location, but sometimes these things happen.

FTFA: Quackenbush said no one answered the phone when he called the theater late Tuesday after he realized the gun had fallen out of his holster.

That is BAD! You shouldn't pat the location of your pistol constantly, because it gives away its location, but it's a good idea to know that your concealed weapon is where you put it, especially when you get up after sitting for a while. :P Lucky dummy.
 
2012-12-21 09:18:28 AM

Solaris: born_yesterday: Solaris: An unchambered firearm is a glorified paper weight, useless.

If the purpose of the firearm is for my protection or protecting the life of another, I'm going to need that weapon to function properly immediately, not after I load the magazine and pull the slide back to make it ready (while in an obvious critical situation if I'm needing to use deadly force)

Think a little more about why an officer keeps that weapon ready.

Accidental discharge, is more accurately negligent discharge. The weapon does not fire by accident.

Doc Daneeka: This man represents everything that is wrong with America.

The very idea (which is unfortunately widespread) that we need to be packing a concealed weapon at all times, as we go about our day-to-day lives, represents a rejection of the very idea of civil society. It is a philosophy in which other people are viewed not as fellow citizens, but as potential enemies.

If we need to be going around armed at all times for self-defense, then we have failed as a society, as a country, and as a civilization. If that is true, then we are a failed state.

I hope all those happy thoughts help maintain civility when someone threatens your life.

It's not a rejection of the idea of a civil society, but a recognition that in this society there are people who may try to disrupt my very existence.

My firearm rejects their attempt to disrupt my civility


Solaris: born_yesterday: Solaris: An unchambered firearm is a glorified paper weight, useless.

If the purpose of the firearm is for my protection or protecting the life of another, I'm going to need that weapon to function properly immediately, not after I load the magazine and pull the slide back to make it ready (while in an obvious critical situation if I'm needing to use deadly force)

Think a little more about why an officer keeps that weapon ready.

Accidental discharge, is more accurately negligent discharge. The weapon does not fire by accident.

Doc Daneeka: This man represents everything that is wrong with America.

The very idea (which is unfortunately widespread) that we need to be packing a concealed weapon at all times, as we go about our day-to-day lives, represents a rejection of the very idea of civil society. It is a philosophy in which other people are viewed not as fellow citizens, but as potential enemies.

If we need to be going around armed at all times for self-defense, then we have failed as a society, as a country, and as a civilization. If that is true, then we are a failed state.

I hope all those happy thoughts help maintain civility when someone threatens your life.

It's not a rejection of the idea of a civil society, but a recognition that in this society there are people who may try to disrupt my very existence.

My firearm rejects their attempt to disrupt my civility


This seems appropriate:

i.qkme.me
 
2012-12-21 09:19:20 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Dimensio: Doc Daneeka: TFA: "In a time of crisis like somebody barging into a mall or a theater, you don't have time to do a two-handed cocking of the weapon," Quackenbush said. "It is my mindset everywhere I go."

This man represents everything that is wrong with America.

The very idea (which is unfortunately widespread) that we need to be packing a concealed weapon at all times, as we go about our day-to-day lives, represents a rejection of the very idea of civil society. It is a philosophy in which other people are viewed not as fellow citizens, but as potential enemies.

If we need to be going around armed at all times for self-defense, then we have failed as a society, as a country, and as a civilization. If that is true, then we are a failed state.

You are correct. In civilized, sane, societies, citizens submit to the whims of violent attackers.

This has got to be rough for you. Your pedantry doesn't play so well when running defense.


I was expressing agreement, not "running defense".
 
2012-12-21 09:21:36 AM

Dimensio: HotWingConspiracy: Dimensio: Doc Daneeka: TFA: "In a time of crisis like somebody barging into a mall or a theater, you don't have time to do a two-handed cocking of the weapon," Quackenbush said. "It is my mindset everywhere I go."

This man represents everything that is wrong with America.

The very idea (which is unfortunately widespread) that we need to be packing a concealed weapon at all times, as we go about our day-to-day lives, represents a rejection of the very idea of civil society. It is a philosophy in which other people are viewed not as fellow citizens, but as potential enemies.

If we need to be going around armed at all times for self-defense, then we have failed as a society, as a country, and as a civilization. If that is true, then we are a failed state.

You are correct. In civilized, sane, societies, citizens submit to the whims of violent attackers.

This has got to be rough for you. Your pedantry doesn't play so well when running defense.

I was expressing agreement, not "running defense".


Mmhmm.
 
2012-12-21 09:23:39 AM

Chummer45: Solaris: born_yesterday: Solaris: An unchambered firearm is a glorified paper weight, useless.

If the purpose of the firearm is for my protection or protecting the life of another, I'm going to need that weapon to function properly immediately, not after I load the magazine and pull the slide back to make it ready (while in an obvious critical situation if I'm needing to use deadly force)

Think a little more about why an officer keeps that weapon ready.

Accidental discharge, is more accurately negligent discharge. The weapon does not fire by accident.

Doc Daneeka: This man represents everything that is wrong with America.

The very idea (which is unfortunately widespread) that we need to be packing a concealed weapon at all times, as we go about our day-to-day lives, represents a rejection of the very idea of civil society. It is a philosophy in which other people are viewed not as fellow citizens, but as potential enemies.

If we need to be going around armed at all times for self-defense, then we have failed as a society, as a country, and as a civilization. If that is true, then we are a failed state.

I hope all those happy thoughts help maintain civility when someone threatens your life.

It's not a rejection of the idea of a civil society, but a recognition that in this society there are people who may try to disrupt my very existence.

My firearm rejects their attempt to disrupt my civility

Solaris: born_yesterday: Solaris: An unchambered firearm is a glorified paper weight, useless.

If the purpose of the firearm is for my protection or protecting the life of another, I'm going to need that weapon to function properly immediately, not after I load the magazine and pull the slide back to make it ready (while in an obvious critical situation if I'm needing to use deadly force)

Think a little more about why an officer keeps that weapon ready.

Accidental discharge, is more accurately negligent discharge. The weapon does not fire by accident.

Doc Daneeka: This man represents everything that is wrong with America.

The very idea (which is unfortunately widespread) that we need to be packing a concealed weapon at all times, as we go about our day-to-day lives, represents a rejection of the very idea of civil society. It is a philosophy in which other people are viewed not as fellow citizens, but as potential enemies.

If we need to be going around armed at all times for self-defense, then we have failed as a society, as a country, and as a civilization. If that is true, then we are a failed state.

I hope all those happy thoughts help maintain civility when someone threatens your life.

It's not a rejection of the idea of a civil society, but a recognition that in this society there are people who may try to disrupt my very existence.

My firearm rejects their attempt to disrupt my civility

This seems appropriate:


Nope, I don't have to conceal mine
 
2012-12-21 09:24:13 AM

Solaris: It's not a rejection of the idea of a civil society, but a recognition that in this society there are people who may try to disrupt my very existence.


I'm told that happens so rarely there is no need to alter our current gun laws. Or so often we should all be armed, I forget which.

I'm not worried, though. If I'm in a theater and need a gun I'll just pick up the one under my seat.
 
2012-12-21 09:28:55 AM

Chummer45: This seems appropriate:


It would be, yes, if the Aurora theater murders had been done by someone wearing body armor at all.
 
2012-12-21 09:29:07 AM
Two words:

Shoulder Holster

Another two words:

Sport Jacket

If he'd been wearing them, this dumb shiat wouldn't have happened.
I don't dig people with guns hanging out of their pants. I don't care what any expert thinks...having a loaded gun close to your junk isn't a smart idea, especially if you're getting up and sitting down alot.
shiat wriggles loose!

Button your jacket, no one can see your gun and holster...and it won't fall out when you're sitting and standing.

Problem solved!!!
 
2012-12-21 09:29:54 AM

duffblue: Is that a .380? Seriously? Guy deserves to have his permit pulled. Talk about being irresponsible.


.45
 
2012-12-21 09:31:04 AM

Doc Daneeka: lewismarktwo: So this happens all the time right? I'm sure it was only reported on this time because of the current 'guns guns guns!' fever.

It does. Or at least, it happens a hell of a lot more often than gun being used for any legitimate self-defense purpose.


Fun fact: those are stats on the firing of guns. Might seem like a quibble, but stats are not generally kept on how many people are chased off just by brandishing a firearm rather than shooting someone.
 
2012-12-21 09:35:00 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Solaris: It's not a rejection of the idea of a civil society, but a recognition that in this society there are people who may try to disrupt my very existence.

I'm told that happens so rarely there is no need to alter our current gun laws. Or so often we should all be armed, I forget which.

I'm not worried, though. If I'm in a theater and need a gun I'll just pick up the one under my seat.


i307.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-21 09:40:25 AM

Doc Daneeka: A gun kept in a household is twelve times more likely to result in the death of a household member or a visitor than an intruder.
(source)

"Firearm-related violence vastly increases expenditures for health care, services for the disabled, insurance, and our criminal justice system," writes Dr. Steven Lippmann of University of Louisville School of Medicine, and colleagues. "The bills are paid by taxpayers and those who buy insurance."


Teabagger head asplode?
 
2012-12-21 09:40:27 AM

RobSeace: Of the movie "The Hobbit," his review in a letter to news media organizations explaining the incident was brief: "Overly long," he said, "and fairly boring."

Well, I'm glad he included that important bit of info, because if there's one movie critic whose opinion you can trust, it's a senile old gun-nut who has abandoned his loaded safety-off weapon in a theater full of children!


I'm curious why TFA mentions that all. Maybe the reporter felt the same about the movie and saw a way to slip in stealth mini-drubbing.
 
2012-12-21 09:40:57 AM

stevarooni: Chummer45: This seems appropriate:

It would be, yes, if the Aurora theater murders had been done by someone wearing body armor at all.


And if there had been an actual "machine gun" used...

Other than those two little details, Wonka's right.
 
2012-12-21 09:45:20 AM

GanjSmokr: stevarooni: Chummer45: This seems appropriate:

It would be, yes, if the Aurora theater murders had been done by someone wearing body armor at all.

And if there had been an actual "machine gun" used...

Other than those two little details, Wonka's right.


Wonka doesn't know that I'm am trained in active shooter response, so yes, yes I could have done something. And I would have used a firearm to do it (gasp)
 
2012-12-21 09:48:43 AM

manimal2878: Ghastly: Paranoid enough to carry a chambered round with the safety off? Sorry but that's all kinds of farking stupid. He's lucky he hasn't shot himself or someone else already.

Some guns don't even have a safety that can be turned on or off. If it's a CCW you always have around in the chamber. You know all those cops you see, if they own a glock the have the safety "off" and a round in the chamber too.

/you don't know what you are talking about.


This gun, VERY likely a Beretta Cheetah model 84, DOES have a safety however.
 
2012-12-21 09:49:39 AM

Solaris: GanjSmokr: stevarooni: Chummer45: This seems appropriate:

It would be, yes, if the Aurora theater murders had been done by someone wearing body armor at all.

And if there had been an actual "machine gun" used...

Other than those two little details, Wonka's right.

Wonka doesn't know that I'm am trained in active shooter response, so yes, yes I could have done something. And I would have used a firearm to do it (gasp)


Clearly you are representative of the majority of the nation, the majority of CCW permit holders, and the majority of the American population as a whole.

Just to be clear, you know you're in a thread defending the decisions of a man that left a loaded, ready-to-fire weapon in a movie theater, correct?

I feel so much safer, knowing your ever-vigilant ass is out there just waiting to protect the shiat out of someone.
 
2012-12-21 09:49:47 AM

gunga galunga: RobSeace: Of the movie "The Hobbit," his review in a letter to news media organizations explaining the incident was brief: "Overly long," he said, "and fairly boring."

Well, I'm glad he included that important bit of info, because if there's one movie critic whose opinion you can trust, it's a senile old gun-nut who has abandoned his loaded safety-off weapon in a theater full of children!

I'm curious why TFA mentions that all. Maybe the reporter felt the same about the movie and saw a way to slip in stealth mini-drubbing.


I think he included that to explain why he was squirming so much he lost his weapon, not as a separate review of the movie. I linked two more stories on this above. There are others as well.
 
2012-12-21 09:52:27 AM

born_yesterday: Just to be clear, you know you're in a thread defending the decisions of a man that left a loaded, ready-to-fire weapon in a movie theater, correct?


Sorry, who is defending the decisions of a CCW-holder who left his gun in a theater? The guy in the story's an idiot; he didn't keep track of his gun, which even from his own perspective kind of defeats the purpose of carrying.
 
2012-12-21 09:55:50 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: And he's a licensed gun dealer. But this won't affect THAT license.


I did not see that in the article. Did I misread?
 
2012-12-21 09:55:52 AM
Is it a surprise that anyone named "Quackenbush" is a buffoon? He sounds like a cartoon character.
 
2012-12-21 09:56:49 AM

stevarooni: born_yesterday: Just to be clear, you know you're in a thread defending the decisions of a man that left a loaded, ready-to-fire weapon in a movie theater, correct?

Sorry, who is defending the decisions of a CCW-holder who left his gun in a theater? The guy in the story's an idiot; he didn't keep track of his gun, which even from his own perspective kind of defeats the purpose of carrying.


Do you see any differences between the comments made by the offender regarding the necessity of carrying a loaded, chambered firearm to protect himself and anyone else arguing the same?
 
2012-12-21 09:57:50 AM

born_yesterday: Solaris: GanjSmokr: stevarooni: Chummer45: This seems appropriate:

It would be, yes, if the Aurora theater murders had been done by someone wearing body armor at all.

And if there had been an actual "machine gun" used...

Other than those two little details, Wonka's right.

Wonka doesn't know that I'm am trained in active shooter response, so yes, yes I could have done something. And I would have used a firearm to do it (gasp)

Clearly you are representative of the majority of the nation, the majority of CCW permit holders, and the majority of the American population as a whole.

Just to be clear, you know you're in a thread defending the decisions of a man that left a loaded, ready-to-fire weapon in a movie theater, correct?

I feel so much safer, knowing your ever-vigilant ass is out there just waiting to protect the shiat out of someone.


I've never claimed to represent anyone. If you read through the thread I've only commented specifically on my belief for keeping a weapon chambered and my abilities. I have not claimed that anything I have done or will ever do, is or will be replicated by anyone who may hold a similar belief.

In regard to the man leaving the weapon in the theater, there really are no words to describe how much this infuriates me to the carelessness and neglect he demonstrated.
 
2012-12-21 09:59:57 AM

Egoy3k: Jesus that guy got lucky. Two kids finding a weapon with a round in the chamber and the safety off could have gone soooooo much worse. What a moron.


True dat. At least the kids were trained. Why yes, it is "ALWAYS" loaded.
I do not understand why he had the safety off, not that walking out of a theater without it would have been OK if it had been. The phrase is "locked and loaded" right? I have never really thought the safety took that much time to click off.
 
2012-12-21 10:00:41 AM

born_yesterday: Do you see any differences between the comments made by the offender regarding the necessity of carrying a loaded, chambered firearm to protect himself and anyone else arguing the same?


Oh, that! Yeah, if you're going to carry, carrying with a firearm ready to use makes sense. That decision wasn't wrong, in my opinion. An unloaded weapon is useless, and one without a chambered cartridge is a delay when every moment counts.
 
2012-12-21 10:02:19 AM

Whole Wheat: Mitch Mitchell: fusillade762: A 7th-grade student found the weapon on Wednesday with a round in the chamber and the safety off.

Glad they pulled his CC license.  The guy is an idiot.

True that.

Other than having his CCW where he shouldn't have, and the safety off, I don't see what was wrong about having a round in the chamber. That is standard practice. The hammer (which is internal on most CCW pieces) can only be cocked by pulling the trigger.


Agree, however, I believe I see an external hammer in this picture. Does not change anything you pointed out though, just another way to cock the hammer.
 
2012-12-21 10:07:27 AM
Just got here. Have the White Knights arrived yet?
 
2012-12-21 10:07:39 AM

Solaris: Wonka doesn't know that I'm am trained in active shooter response, so yes, yes I could have done something. And I would have used a firearm to do it (gasp)


Let's say there's 4 of you in the theater all trained in active shooter response.  It's dark.  How do you be sure you're shooting at the original shooter and not each other?
 
2012-12-21 10:09:23 AM

Solaris: I've never claimed to represent anyone. If you read through the thread I've only commented specifically on my belief for keeping a weapon chambered and my abilities. I have not claimed that anything I have done or will ever do, is or will be replicated by anyone who may hold a similar belief.

In regard to the man leaving the weapon in the theater, there really are no words to describe how much this infuriates me to the carelessness and neglect he demonstrated.



Point taken. And if anyone is carrying during an emergency situation, I would like it to be someone with the training you have obtained. I'm rereading your posts, and you've intimated you carry in a professional capacity.

However, most people are wanna-be Rambos like this asshat. I don't know about you, but having a guy like this being able to obtain and carry a weapon--and be exposed as a danger only after his act of negligence has been committed--does not make me feel safer.
 
2012-12-21 10:10:47 AM

GanjSmokr: stevarooni: Chummer45: This seems appropriate:

It would be, yes, if the Aurora theater murders had been done by someone wearing body armor at all.

And if there had been an actual "machine gun" used...

Other than those two little details, Wonka's right.


And that it was just a smoke bomb and not tear gas.

Other than those three little details, Wonka's right.
 
2012-12-21 10:11:33 AM

Chummer45: I am of the view that the Second Amendment was intended to preserve the rights of the states to have well-regulated militias, to ease the concerns of anti-federalists who were worried that the federal government may get too powerful by disbanding the militias and raising a standing army. Why do I think that? Because it is one sentence that immediately announces its purpose - preserving the right of the people to operate "well-regulated militias." A militia is "regulated" by the state, which expresses the will of its citizens. So in that sense, the word "people" as used in the amendment has the same as "we the people" in the preamble of the constitution - it refers to the "people" in the collective sense. The right of the "people" in the second amendment is referring to the citizens of the states (through their state governments).


"'A well-crafted pepperoni pizza, being necessary to the preservation of a diverse menu, the right of the people to keep and cook tomatoes, shall not be infringed.' I would ask you to try to argue that this statement says that only pepperoni pizzas can keep and cook tomatoes, and only well-crafted ones at that." -- Bruce Tiemann
 
2012-12-21 10:12:34 AM
Must have been the first level of Scavenger Mode

Stupid Assignments

/Crossbow
 
2012-12-21 10:14:50 AM

Callous: GanjSmokr: stevarooni: Chummer45: This seems appropriate:

It would be, yes, if the Aurora theater murders had been done by someone wearing body armor at all.

And if there had been an actual "machine gun" used...

Other than those two little details, Wonka's right.

And that it was just a smoke bomb and not tear gas.

Other than those three little details, Wonka's right.


Well.... it was dark and crowded... and they were in a theater.... so Wonka has that going for his argument still.
 
2012-12-21 10:16:19 AM

Subtle_Canary: .380? That better have been a PPK or he's up for losing man points as well...


Actually, this looks like a Pietro Beretta model 1935 to me. so far I have not found it listed as anything other than a .32 ACP (7.65mm). As the woman I work with just told me, she can yell more harshly than that.

/yes, it is still a firearm and can be lethal.
/will probably not stop a coked up attacker. He will die, but not before ripping your face off. But he was going to do that anyway.
 
2012-12-21 10:16:58 AM

you have pee hands: Solaris: Wonka doesn't know that I'm am trained in active shooter response, so yes, yes I could have done something. And I would have used a firearm to do it (gasp)

Let's say there's 4 of you in the theater all trained in active shooter response.  It's dark.  How do you be sure you're shooting at the original shooter and not each other?


www.episd.org

A four person response team looks something like this. This is not the only pattern to do this, but notice the officers are close and will move together. Communicate, communicate, communicate.
 
2012-12-21 10:17:26 AM

charttn: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: And he's a licensed gun dealer. But this won't affect THAT license.

I did not see that in the article. Did I misread?


It's not in subby's link, but in mine, above.

"He's also a licensed gun dealer, but said he does very little selling and mostly steers buyers to good websites."
 
2012-12-21 10:18:11 AM

Chinchillazilla: I'm guessing he's never actually "had to" fire his weapon to scare off animals. Someone this eager to shoot something (the safety off? Really?) probably wanders around taking potshots at squirrels because "It was coming right at me!"


i478.photobucket.com


Approve
 
2012-12-21 10:19:19 AM

Solaris: you have pee hands: Solaris: Wonka doesn't know that I'm am trained in active shooter response, so yes, yes I could have done something. And I would have used a firearm to do it (gasp)

Let's say there's 4 of you in the theater all trained in active shooter response.  It's dark.  How do you be sure you're shooting at the original shooter and not each other?

[www.episd.org image 275x184]

A four person response team looks something like this. This is not the only pattern to do this, but notice the officers are close and will move together. Communicate, communicate, communicate.


Funny way to watch a movie.
 
2012-12-21 10:19:54 AM
This is like a guy with a Geo saying he will race anyone, anytime, anywhere.
 
2012-12-21 10:21:54 AM

Solaris: A four person response team looks something like this. This is not the only pattern to do this, but notice the officers are close and will move together. Communicate, communicate, communicate.


That's all well and good if it's you and three of your friends who went to the movie and are sitting together so you know where each other are and who you need to be communicating with (or if you're outside, hear shooting, and decide to move in as a group).  But what if it's you and three other people who are sitting separately, ignorant of the fact that each is prepared to respond, when Johnny Nutjob throws his smokebombs and starts shooting into the crowd?
 
2012-12-21 10:23:46 AM

Chummer45: I am of the view that the Second Amendment was intended to preserve the rights of the states to have well-regulated militias, to ease the concerns of anti-federalists who were worried that the federal government may get too powerful by disbanding the militias and raising a standing army. Why do I think that? Because it is one sentence that immediately announces its purpose - preserving the right of the people to operate "well-regulated militias." A militia is "regulated" by the state, which expresses the will of its citizens.

(emphasis mine)

Know how I know you don't understand contextual meaning? :-P At the time, the militia was comprised of all able-bodied men between 18 and 45. Well-regulated wasn't what we'd say is "regulation", but rather "well-equipped". So for modern readers: "[A well-equipped body of protection comprised of all able-bodied men], being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
 
2012-12-21 10:24:14 AM
 
2012-12-21 10:26:35 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Solaris: you have pee hands: Solaris: Wonka doesn't know that I'm am trained in active shooter response, so yes, yes I could have done something. And I would have used a firearm to do it (gasp)

Let's say there's 4 of you in the theater all trained in active shooter response.  It's dark.  How do you be sure you're shooting at the original shooter and not each other?

[www.episd.org image 275x184]

A four person response team looks something like this. This is not the only pattern to do this, but notice the officers are close and will move together. Communicate, communicate, communicate.

Funny way to watch a movie.


The caffeine from the $38 coke helps
 
2012-12-21 10:26:49 AM

charttn: Subtle_Canary: .380? That better have been a PPK or he's up for losing man points as well...

Actually, this looks like a Pietro Beretta model 1935 to me. so far I have not found it listed as anything other than a .32 ACP (7.65mm). As the woman I work with just told me, she can yell more harshly than that.

Oops, found it, the model 1934 is a .380 Also found that it has these safeties:
- manual hammer-block safety
- half-cock position of hammer
which should help prevent accidental, err, negligent discharge if it fell on the floor hitting the hammer with a round in the chamber.

 
2012-12-21 10:27:26 AM
Whew, that was close. Who knows what kind of mayhem that killer gun may have committed on its own.

The guy is a freaking idiot.
The overreaction in the story is Just as stupid.

Cops leave guns laying around in public about 5 times a year...what? Crickets? Oh that's right, their guns are specially trained. That or cops are such crappy shots that it's not really a threat anyway.
 
2012-12-21 10:27:49 AM

you have pee hands: But what if it's you and three other people who are sitting separately, ignorant of the fact that each is prepared to respond, when Johnny Nutjob throws his smokebombs and starts shooting into the crowd?


In this specific situation...I'd say that a moment's glance will tell you that everyone who starts shooting is shooting at the lone figure at the base of the stairs, rather than the audience trying to flee.

Hypothetically, there's a lot of potential for crossfire accidents. Empirically, a lot of people died...so the chance to do something doesn't bother me too much. I'm sure someone has a good analysis, but I think that a lone nut with the luxury of shooting at people unchallenged is going to cause more guaranteed deaths than the possible chaos that ensues with multiple shooters in a dark theater.
 
2012-12-21 10:30:28 AM

you have pee hands: Solaris: A four person response team looks something like this. This is not the only pattern to do this, but notice the officers are close and will move together. Communicate, communicate, communicate.

That's all well and good if it's you and three of your friends who went to the movie and are sitting together so you know where each other are and who you need to be communicating with (or if you're outside, hear shooting, and decide to move in as a group).  But what if it's you and three other people who are sitting separately, ignorant of the fact that each is prepared to respond, when Johnny Nutjob throws his smokebombs and starts shooting into the crowd?


We could play the "what if" game all day on an infinite number of possibilites or scenarios you can imagine. No situation is ever the same, it is dynamic and constantly changing.
 
2012-12-21 10:31:57 AM

computerguyUT: Whew, that was close. Who knows what kind of mayhem that killer gun may have committed on its own.


He left a loaded gun, with the safety off, in a theater full of children showing a family-friendly movie all day.

If you don't see how that situation could have ended very badly, you are willfully obtuse.
 
2012-12-21 10:32:22 AM

stevarooni: you have pee hands: But what if it's you and three other people who are sitting separately, ignorant of the fact that each is prepared to respond, when Johnny Nutjob throws his smokebombs and starts shooting into the crowd?

In this specific situation...I'd say that a moment's glance will tell you that everyone who starts shooting is shooting at the lone figure at the base of the stairs, rather than the audience trying to flee.

Hypothetically, there's a lot of potential for crossfire accidents. Empirically, a lot of people died...so the chance to do something doesn't bother me too much. I'm sure someone has a good analysis, but I think that a lone nut with the luxury of shooting at people unchallenged is going to cause more guaranteed deaths than the possible chaos that ensues with multiple shooters in a dark theater.


Seems like this would be easy enough to test, though I'm not sure who would do it.
 
2012-12-21 10:34:07 AM
How do you not notice your gun missing?

It's go weight to it. You have it in a pocket, in a holster on your belt, in a coat pocket, etc. You can't fail to notice even a small gun.

If it's in an inside-the-waist holster, your pants will fit differently with the gun out vs in.

Didn't he notice something was a little odd when he got up?

I'm trying really hard to figure out how I would fail to notice that my gun was still in the seat, or how I would not notice that the gun wasn't exactly where it was supposed to be.
 
2012-12-21 10:36:11 AM
OK. I'm convinced. I'm carrying with a round in the chamber from now on. That way I don't have to take my left hand out of the popcorn to take somebody down.

Just kidding. I carry a revolver so I didn't have that problem anyway. Hope I'm never actually in that situation, though. Movie tickets are expensive. Don't distract me with your random shooting!
 
2012-12-21 10:38:46 AM

Solaris: We could play the "what if" game all day on an infinite number of possibilites or scenarios you can imagine. No situation is ever the same, it is dynamic and constantly changing.


Legitimate question in the vein of "What If?"

What if you see a patron with a gun tucked into his pants? Do you assume he has a license to carry the weapon?
Do you assume he is responsible? Do you assume he is there to protect everyone or kill everyone? Do you call the authorities?
 
2012-12-21 10:43:06 AM

Free Radical: What if you see a patron with a gun tucked into his pants? Do you assume he has a license to carry the weapon?
Do you assume he is responsible? Do you assume he is there to protect everyone or kill everyone? Do you call the authorities?



Given that 40 or so states are shall issue, why would anyone assume that a person carrying a concealed firearm must NOT be licensed? We don't do with cars and their drivers.

I act the same as I do people driving cars. I couldn't care less about whether they're licensed or not. I watch their actual behavior. If they act dangerously, I (re)act accordingly. If they don't act dangerously, I (re)act accordingly.

It's the same thing with a guy dressed up as a cop. We don't assume he must be an imposter, do we? I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he's a cop, but if tries to hold the place up, or start killing people at random, I'll (once again) react accordingly.
 
2012-12-21 10:43:36 AM
I think everyone's missing the big picture here: for 24 hours, this true American had to face the trials and tribulations of life unarmed. Imagine his terror and fear. What was he supposed to do if those black people over there decided to make him their next target? How was he supposed to get it up if his wife wanted to make love to him? What if they made him wait 3 days to get a replacement gun?

You people mocking him should be ashamed. He's one of the bravest American gun owners I've seen in a long while.
 
2012-12-21 10:44:46 AM

pedrop357: How do you not notice your gun missing?


Now hear me out! This ties in with his comments about the movie. The movie seemed boring to him, so maybe he developed a severe case of Rock Butt (you know, that phenomenon whereby one's lower extremities lose sensation after sitting for a certain amount of time). It's The Hobbit what made him lose his gun!
 
2012-12-21 10:49:17 AM

Free Radical: Solaris: We could play the "what if" game all day on an infinite number of possibilites or scenarios you can imagine. No situation is ever the same, it is dynamic and constantly changing.

Legitimate question in the vein of "What If?"

What if you see a patron with a gun tucked into his pants? Do you assume he has a license to carry the weapon?
Do you assume he is responsible? Do you assume he is there to protect everyone or kill everyone? Do you call the authorities?


If the weapon is visible, then it is not "concealed" therefore that patron is violating law/permit regulations. Having a permit doesn't matter now, they are not abiding by it. I assume that every weapon is a potential threat. And I would notify police.
 
2012-12-21 10:49:27 AM

pedrop357: How do you not notice your gun missing?


Because the majority of gun owners are 180 IQ, responsible, profitable small business owners employing and providing healthcare to Americans, citizens. It's just this case, and all the other cases we hear about in the news, that are isolated incidents and bad apples.
 
2012-12-21 10:58:21 AM

Solaris: Free Radical: Solaris: We could play the "what if" game all day on an infinite number of possibilites or scenarios you can imagine. No situation is ever the same, it is dynamic and constantly changing.

Legitimate question in the vein of "What If?"

What if you see a patron with a gun tucked into his pants? Do you assume he has a license to carry the weapon?
Do you assume he is responsible? Do you assume he is there to protect everyone or kill everyone? Do you call the authorities?

If the weapon is visible, then it is not "concealed" therefore that patron is violating law/permit regulations. Having a permit doesn't matter now, they are not abiding by it. I assume that every weapon is a potential threat. And I would notify police.


Why notify police? If you live in certain states, and feel threatened by someone you see carrying a gun, you can "stand your ground" and shoot the guy.

Ain't life great when everyone's armed and the NRA and ALEC write the laws?
 
2012-12-21 10:59:09 AM

WhippingBoy: I think everyone's missing the big picture here: for 24 hours, this true American had to face the trials and tribulations of life unarmed. Imagine his terror and fear. What was he supposed to do if those black people over there decided to make him their next target? How was he supposed to get it up if his wife wanted to make love to him? What if they made him wait 3 days to get a replacement gun?


Since he's a gun dealer he may have a few more lying around.
 
2012-12-21 11:00:58 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: WhippingBoy: I think everyone's missing the big picture here: for 24 hours, this true American had to face the trials and tribulations of life unarmed. Imagine his terror and fear. What was he supposed to do if those black people over there decided to make him their next target? How was he supposed to get it up if his wife wanted to make love to him? What if they made him wait 3 days to get a replacement gun?

Since he's a gun dealer he may have a few more lying around.


Thank God. At least that's some small relief.
 
2012-12-21 11:03:59 AM

Doc Daneeka: If you live in certain states, and feel threatened by someone you see carrying a gun, you can "stand your ground" and shoot the guy.


Hence the term "concealed carry". In states where open carry is permitted, it takes more to be considered to be offering deadly force. But if someone with a CCW reveals his gun and is threatening, that's a threat of deadly force. Assault, if you will.
 
2012-12-21 11:33:44 AM

Solaris: We could play the "what if" game all day on an infinite number of possibilites or scenarios you can imagine. No situation is ever the same, it is dynamic and constantly changing.


Sure, but I think mentally playing through "what ifs" is an important part of preparedness and planning. I think self defense presents a lot of them, because there's the obvious split between the safest way to store a gun (unloaded, with ammo locked separately) and the way it's most useful for self defense (quickly accessible and loaded).  There are some cases where they'd be more useful, like the Columbine shooting which was organized, methodical, and went on for quite a long time and some where they'd be less useful, like IMO the Aurora shooting which was especially chaotic.
 
2012-12-21 12:17:56 PM

poughdrew: Because the majority of gun owners are 180 IQ, responsible, profitable small business owners employing and providing healthcare to Americans, citizens. It's just this case, and all the other cases we hear about in the news, that are isolated incidents and bad apples.


blah blah blah.

I find it amazing that he didn't notice his gun missing. I also wonder how it's possible when the cops do it (which happens pretty regularly if you believe all the news articles about people finding cops' guns.)
 
2012-12-21 12:18:18 PM

Doc Daneeka: lewismarktwo: So this happens all the time right? I'm sure it was only reported on this time because of the current 'guns guns guns!' fever.

It does. Or at least, it happens a hell of a lot more often than gun being used for any legitimate self-defense purpose.

For every single time a gun is used in self defense, there are:
-four accidental shootings
-seven criminal assaults or homicides
-eleven attempted or completed suicides
(source)

A gun kept in a household is twelve times more likely to result in the death of a household member or a visitor than an intruder.
(source)


Lies, damned lies and statistics.
 
2012-12-21 12:38:25 PM
Quackenbush?
Really?
That is all.
 
2012-12-21 01:04:44 PM

Big Ramifications: [i49.tinypic.com image 416x375]


i49.tinypic.com

That is a bad post, Big Ramifications, and you should feel bad.
 
2012-12-21 01:10:04 PM

Dimensio: You are correct. In civilized, sane, societies, citizens submit to the whims of violent attackers.


Better than all of us being a potential violent attacker. Which, like the first guy said, means that we have failed as a society. We don't all want to be a part of your dystopian fantasy land.
 
2012-12-21 01:19:02 PM

stevarooni: Chummer45: I am of the view that the Second Amendment was intended to preserve the rights of the states to have well-regulated militias, to ease the concerns of anti-federalists who were worried that the federal government may get too powerful by disbanding the militias and raising a standing army. Why do I think that? Because it is one sentence that immediately announces its purpose - preserving the right of the people to operate "well-regulated militias." A militia is "regulated" by the state, which expresses the will of its citizens. (emphasis mine)

Know how I know you don't understand contextual meaning? :-P At the time, the militia was comprised of all able-bodied men between 18 and 45. Well-regulated wasn't what we'd say is "regulation", but rather "well-equipped". So for modern readers: "[A well-equipped body of protection comprised of all able-bodied men], being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


Bullshiat. Well-regulated in this context means disciplined--not mere armed rabble.
 
2012-12-21 02:09:37 PM

Chummer45: This seems appropriate:

i.qkme.me


He didn't have a machine gun. He didn't have full body armor. But don't let reality get in the way of your stupidity.

Also, the point is to be prepared. Nobody thinks that being armed will guarantee their survival. Nobody thinks that being armed will guarantee they can stop a criminal like in Aurora. What people who carry daily think is that if they are unarmed their odds of survival go down dramatically, and that if they are armed their odds of stopping a shooter like in Aurora go from 0 to something better than 0.

Honestly, people that don't carry have NO CLUE why those who do do. You can explain it to them for hours on end and all they end up hearing is either "I am afraid" or "I think I am a badass".... But neither of those is the motivation for 99% of CPL holders.
 
2012-12-21 02:17:46 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: [www.oceleb.com image 247x335][www.oceleb.com image 247x335][www.oceleb.com image 247x335]


You win the thread. Done in one.
 
2012-12-21 03:14:44 PM

sufferpuppet: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: [www.oceleb.com image 247x335][www.oceleb.com image 247x335][www.oceleb.com image 247x335]

You win the thread. Done in one.


You're the first to mention it.
 
2012-12-21 03:47:27 PM
And the number of gun owners who can truthfully be called responsible takes yet another hit.
 
2012-12-21 03:48:24 PM
How else would he have done his civic duty and dropped the crazed shooter who was gonna sneak in through the exit doors with a semi-automatic rifle, high capacity clips and smoke grenades?
 
2012-12-21 04:08:12 PM
But I guarantee you this would never happen to a teacher in the classroom.
 
2012-12-21 04:32:56 PM

arentol: Chummer45: This seems appropriate:

i.qkme.me

He didn't have a machine gun. He didn't have full body armor. But don't let reality get in the way of your stupidity.

Also, the point is to be prepared. Nobody thinks that being armed will guarantee their survival. Nobody thinks that being armed will guarantee they can stop a criminal like in Aurora. What people who carry daily think is that if they are unarmed their odds of survival go down dramatically, and that if they are armed their odds of stopping a shooter like in Aurora go from 0 to something better than 0.

Honestly, people that don't carry have NO CLUE why those who do do. You can explain it to them for hours on end and all they end up hearing is either "I am afraid" or "I think I am a badass".... But neither of those is the motivation for 99% of CPL holders.


Penis substitute? I'm just askin questions.
 
2012-12-21 04:41:53 PM

charttn: "locked and loaded"


Locked doesn't refer to having the safety engaged, it refers to the breech being in a closed or 'locked' state.
 
2012-12-21 04:54:28 PM

Waxing_Chewbacca: Penis substitute? I'm just askin questions.


DRINK!

I'll try to take gun controllers a little more seriously when they get over their obsession with penises.
 
2012-12-21 05:27:21 PM

you have pee hands: But what if it's you and three other people who are sitting separately, ignorant of the fact that each is prepared to respond, when Johnny Nutjob throws his smokebombs and starts shooting into the crowd?


In order to assess the situation, you need to know how attackers, defenders, and victims are likely to behave. Victim behavior is pretty straight-forward: cowering, shielding others, or fleeing. The difficulty comes in determining the difference between an attacker (bad guy with a gun) and a defender (good guy with a gun). There are several behaviors that will be different between the two.

The first difference will be movement. An attacker will be moving through the scene methodically. They've created the situation, they feel in control of it, and they'll have a general plan in mind of what they want to do. They will often be standing and not seeking cover (at least until confronted). A defender on the other hand will be moving more in short segments from one position of cover to another. They won't be standing up.

The second difference will be how the weapon is carried. An attacker will have their weapon up and aimed. They're looking for targets. A defender will typically have their weapon drawn, but not extended. They'll be carrying it pointed either up or down while they're looking out from cover to assess the situation.

The third difference is communication. An attacker will not try to communicate with their target. They just aim and fire. A defender will, when possible, bark orders such as "Stop!", "Freeze!", or "Drop the gun!".

Again, you have to assess the whole situation. Will there be defenders who carry their weapon aimed as the search for the attacker? Yes. Will the be attackers who yell things at their victims? Yes.

Additionally, as the defender, you have to be able to see the attacker before you take the shot. In a dark, loud, smoke-filled theater, you'll have to decide if think you have a reasonable chance to get close enough to the attacker to fire without putting yourself in too much danger. You might not be able to. Having a CCW doesn't guarantee your safety. It only improves your chances.

So, as someone in a chaotic, uncertain situation, you have to gather and process as much information as you can and make a decision based on potentially incomplete information that you and others will have to live with for the rest of their (potentially short) lives. Not something to be taken lightly.
 
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