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(Washington Post)   Boehner aborts Plan B, Plan C is to go home for Christmas   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 111
    More: Fail, Boehner, christmas, Harry M. Reid, GOP leaders, House Speaker, Eric Cantor  
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10277 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Dec 2012 at 11:19 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-12-20 11:26:17 PM  
10 votes:
So all of you on the left who were raging at Obama for compromising, this is why I told you to relax.  The GOP is farking clown shoes.  The Democrats are united and have made several good faith compromises that they can show the people (including a tax cut bill that's passed the Senate), but the Tea Baggers are prepared to sink the ship out of spite.  Boehner has no control over them and now the knives are truly coming out.  All Obama has to do is sit back and wait.  If he can peel off enough GOP support to prevent a filibuster and push through a deal in the House, he doesn't need Boehner anymore.  If he can't, then he can sit back while we go over the cliff, let the GOP take the blame and then reset the terms after the first of the year.
2012-12-20 11:48:03 PM  
5 votes:
Cantor promised Boehner that he could deliver the votes .... just like Littlefinger promised Ned Stark he would deliver the Gold Cloaks.
2012-12-20 11:33:46 PM  
5 votes:

Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin: Darth_Lukecash: Worse. Speaker. Of. The. House. Ever.

This man is bad at his job.

How quickly they forget......











/The Adulterer laughs in your general direction.


Naah. He's a disgusting human being but he was able to get bills passed.

Boehner is a disgusting human being that can't get bills passed.

For all the misguided hate on Pelosi, she really got stuff done.
2012-12-20 11:52:08 PM  
4 votes:
Speaker of the house
Doling out the charm
Ready with a handshake
And an open palm
Tells a saucy tale
Makes a little stir
Customers appreciate a bon-viveur

Glad to do a friend a favor
Doesn't cost me to be nice
But nothing gets you nothing
Everything has got a little price!

Speaker of the house
Keeper of the zoo
Ready to relieve 'em
Of a sou or two
Watering the wine
Making up the weight
Pickin' up their knick-knacks
When they can't see straight
Everybody loves a landlord
Everybody's bosom friend
I do whatever pleases
Jesus! Won't I bleed 'em in the end!
2012-12-20 11:21:18 PM  
4 votes:
Now... just stay with me here... now why can't we just let tax rates rise back to Clinton levels?
2012-12-20 10:58:13 PM  
4 votes:
Worse. Speaker. Of. The. House. Ever.

This man is bad at his job.
2012-12-21 09:28:55 AM  
3 votes:
Speaker Boehner and Eric Cantor,

The failed policies that your party continues to support are what has brought our country to the plutocracy that it has become. A tax structure that favors the so called "job creators" and punishes the middle class, stripping workers of protections, and failure to monitor and regulate financial giants as they have driven the economy into the toilet are policies that you continue to support and even praise.

The giant corporations are sitting on untold hundreds of millions of dollars that they move to offshore protections and refuse to use to employ or help American workers. Just as your party methodically dismantles all social safety nets, programs and protections for American workers.

You refuse to acknowledge that the American taxpayers are your constituents and you refuse to do anything to help the majority, your only concern are the wealthy and your corporate masters as this serves your purposes and personal gain is the driving force behind the majority of the political parties in this country now.

The backbone of this country has been crushed, the taxpayers have been robbed and lied to about YOUR wars and your policies of protecting the wealthy robber barons. The disparity of wealth that hasn't been seen since the last Depression was avoidable and it's unconscionable and I believe it was by design of the last administration and your party.

We've been robbed by the war machine, by the Wall Street companies and the friends of the Republicans that stole our money and continue to in overseas conflicts that profit the dishonest.

As you continue to protect and represent the disproportionately wealthy and privileged at the expense of the vast majority of Americans I think you will start to see more of these unruly crowds of the Americans that you can't stand to see prosper.

Enjoy your revolution, you were directly involved in creating it. My regards.
2012-12-21 03:53:01 AM  
3 votes:

slimkibbles: Keep taxes low and stop spending so damn much.


As business owners know, you have to spend money to make money.
The U.S. is not a household trying to pay off its credit cards; we don't have a fixed salary like a working family does. It is a business trying to expand: our income depends on our economic growth. We need to stimulate growth with spending, and we need to pay for that stimulus in part with spending cuts, yes, but also with taxes. Obama's plan contains both. While it's true that taxes can sometimes drive people to hide money, reciting that mantra like it is some kind of inevitable law of the universe is silly. It is NOT always true under every possible circumstance. Clinton raised taxes and the economy boomed, despite all the doomsday speeches and hand-wringing from the conservatives. Plus, the austerity route is exactly the way that Europe has gone, and it hasn't helped their financial situation. This sort of blanket argument for lowering taxes and spending is just too simplistic to be correct. Taken to extremes, it hurts the middle class and decreases their discretionary spending power which ends up hurting big businesses.
2012-12-20 11:57:23 PM  
3 votes:

Mentat: From the perspective of the economy, it doesn't matter where the money is being spent so long as it's being spent.


From the perspective of jobs, defense spending is the least effective way to create jobs relative to several other forms of domestic spending. It's capital intensive, not labor intensive.
2012-12-20 11:56:48 PM  
3 votes:
In a parliamentary system, we'd be calling new elections right about now.
2012-12-20 11:45:52 PM  
3 votes:
Dear Mr. President,

Either invoke Article II Section 3 and make those martherfarkers celebrate in the Capitol or APPOINT EVERYBODY!

Sincerely,
A. Voter
2012-12-20 11:42:05 PM  
3 votes:
If "Plan B" had passed the House and gotten vetoed, Boehner could've at least pretended they tried and then attempted to pin the blame on Obama and the Senate. But failing to pass it at all exposes them as a bunch of incompetents. I don't see any other option but for a few Republicans (in very safe seats) to side with the Democrats on the Senate bill in order to avoid political suicide.
2012-12-20 11:36:09 PM  
3 votes:
and the Obvious question:

How in the hell do you ever suggest a plan like this unless you are 100% sure you have the votes. Because if you don't it makes your position much much weaker. Your position now is "I need Democrat support even in the house to pass it".
2012-12-20 11:35:51 PM  
3 votes:
This is the guy who today accused Obama of being unwilling to stand up to his own party.

www.soul-amen.com
2012-12-20 11:34:31 PM  
3 votes:

foreman3: DarkSkyForever: Now... just stay with me here... now why can't we just let tax rates rise back to Clinton levels?

Or, why not just go back to Clinton Spending Levels?


HOW ABOUT BOTH?! For fark's sake....
2012-12-20 11:03:34 PM  
3 votes:

Darth_Lukecash: Worse. Speaker. Of. The. House. Ever.

This man is bad at his job.


No one could be both Speaker and rooted in reality these days.  So basically Boener's timing for ascending to the speakership just sucked.

But that doesn't change the fact that he speaks really douchey in his press conferences.
2012-12-21 04:30:11 AM  
2 votes:

MmmmBacon: It's time to make the GOP squirm, and make it clear to all what the Tea Party really is: A bunch of toadies only looking out for millionaires.


The Tea Party is the GOP's Frankenstein, the millionaires who built it no longer control it. Fox News created the first artificial lifeform in the form of the Tea Party Patriot. It is completely impervious to logic, reason and exists only for confrontation with Liberals. They made it to see only in black and white, any shade of gray only enrages it.

Even the US Chamber of Commerce has, although begrudgingly, endorsed Obama's plan. Stocks are already falling overseas tonight on the uncertainty, big business has been urging the GOP leadership to get something done. And they can't. Any member of the Tea Bag contingent in the House seems to be far more afraid of being burned as a RINO than of even a global economic collapse.

They endanger the whole world, and America's security, by playing games with the economy over ideas that the sensible on both sides of the aisle have already dismissed. They're un-American assholes and petty little tyrants.
2012-12-21 04:13:38 AM  
2 votes:
Let the Bush Tax Cuts expire. Let the Sequestration begin. I'm good with that.

When the next House and Senate are seated, Obama should offer up a new bill that cuts taxes for everyone making less than $250,000/year, still has some responsible cuts to Defense (even the Pentagon is for some cuts to their budget) but protects social programs. It should be carefully crafted to specifically mention raises for military personnel, protecting Social Security and Medicare for the poor, disabled and elderly, etc. This bill would also include scaling tax increases on those making more than $1,000,000/year, up to a top tax rate of 70% (up from ~39%, where they will be after the Bush cuts sunset).

The GOP will of course balk at this, despite it being popular with most Americans. Obama can then offer up a compromise, once the media has gone out of their way to paint the economy as ready to tank due to Republicans refusal to work with the President, and the GOP is on the ropes. The compromise? Same bill, but the top tax rate is lowered to 60% on those making more than $1,000,000/year.

I love political theater, and the next couple of months should prove to be very entertaining, indeed. It's time to make the GOP squirm, and make it clear to all what the Tea Party really is: A bunch of toadies only looking out for millionaires.
2012-12-21 04:10:33 AM  
2 votes:

hdhale: No, everyone in both parties owns this charles foxtrot. The Dems are being just as inflexible and stupid. Now everybody gets to eat a shiat sandwich and like it.


Put down the crack pipe.

The President just won an electoral landslide running on the platform of tax increases for those making over $250K. You don't have to like it, but that's the fact jack.

Even after winning another four years, along with netting more seats in both the House and Senate, the President has been negotiating with the Republicans in good faith. Why? I don't know, I'd tell them to get farked, but Obama actually went well past 1/2 way towards their position. He moved from $250K to $400k, he also accepted cuts to social programs, he didn't have to do any of that. The Bush tax cuts will automatically expire on January 1. Obama has an automatic win on January 1, yet Obama is still negotiating, still giving ground.

Exactly what ground have the Republican given?

Now, the Republican House can't even pass their own farking bill? A bill purely designed to provide political cover, a bill the President would never sign? They couldn't pass THAT?

The problem is not in both parties. The President is not being inflexible. The voters have made their intent clear, even with the voters mandate the President is negotiating, the Republicans are not. Even if they were, the Republican House wouldn't pass any reasonable middle ground legislation.

The dysfunction is overwhelmingly in the Republican party, over-Farking-whelmingly.  Any other interpretation is a drug-addled hallucination.
2012-12-21 03:30:56 AM  
2 votes:

ShawnDoc: Technically the House has passed a plan. Any chance of Reid combining it with the Senate bill that has passed, and using reconciliation to essentially force the House to accept the Senate plan?


The House would have to re-pass any changed bill. There's no way the existing House bill is getting through the Senate with a lot of revisions, let alone getting signed by the President. IIRC, the main advantage of budge reconciliation is that it only requires a simple majority of the Senate.

The real answer is that we're almost certainly going over the cliff. I've believed that since the election. I never for a minute though Boehner had the votes to pass anything. Tonight's vote just proved the truth of this.

The reason we're going over the cliff is because there aren't anywhere near enough Republicans in the House who will vote for a tax increase - even an increase of just a few points - even if it's only on the wealthiest 1%. They'd rather have the taxes rise automatically in order to give them political cover, even though their refusal may result in a TREMENDOUS cost to the nation's economy. It's a rather small bit of political cover versus the cliff, they've clearly chosen the cliff.

A large majority of House Republicans have just proven themselves to be the opposite of patriots. For the sake of some political cover, they've purposefully decided to severely damage the financial health of the nation. Cowards to a man.
2012-12-21 01:11:36 AM  
2 votes:
I've come to the conclusion that the teabaggers WANT a total collapse of government.

They seriously want it.  I'm not joking.

Many of them have been stockpiling guns and supplies and foodstuffs (just look at the things that are for sale on right wingnut websites) since the Clinton administration.  And, I think it would give them a perverse sort of thrill to be proved right...even if they are the ones almost wholly responsible for the collapse.

The major question I have is whether the Republican party will do what's right and tell its large contingent of lunatics to get lost (thereby relegating the party to minority status for a generation) or whether they'll say, "fark it" and take us down with them.
2012-12-21 01:05:49 AM  
2 votes:
I think I'm actually okay with the fiscal cliff and taxes going up now. I sort of see it like the movies where the hero takes the villain over the edge of the building with him. If I go down, you're going down...and I don't really have that far to go, so....enjoy!
2012-12-21 12:36:55 AM  
2 votes:

Mentat: So all of you on the left who were raging at Obama for compromising, this is why I told you to relax.  The GOP is farking clown shoes.


The Teabaggers are the ones who are the ball-lickers. The Democrats are gonna maintain our social safety net while they watch and cry like little whiny biatches. Once we get to Washington and find those Tea Party farks who is holding up progress... we're gonna make them eat our bills, then shiat out our bills, and then eat their shiat that's made up of our bills that we made 'em eat. Then you're all you Senate GOP motherfarks are next.

Love,

Jay and Silent Bob.
2012-12-21 12:21:23 AM  
2 votes:
Say what you want about Tom Delay... but he would not have put up with this sh*t. Republican rank and file would be waking up to horse heads.
2012-12-21 12:18:14 AM  
2 votes:
Obama's offering this guy a lifeline by trying to give him cover with an increase to $400k and chained CPI on social security...

All Obama has to do is wait for the "cliff" to happen and then come back and say "OK, how about tax cuts for everyone making under $250k, huh? Maybe I'll give back half the automatic Pentagon cuts, too.. You gonna go on record voting against tax cuts and military spending, Republican House members? Hmmm...

I think Boehner wants to take the deal today, but his constituency, and many House republicans, are cray-cray and he knows it.
2012-12-21 12:13:17 AM  
2 votes:

Carn: Why?


I think he was kidding. But you're absolutely right. The Senate passed an extension of the <$250K tax cuts back in July. They can pass those again and force the GOP to make a decision. Cut taxes for 98% of Americans or vote against tax cuts - and at the same time vote against their entire political philosophy for the last 30 years.
2012-12-21 12:12:56 AM  
2 votes:

gideon: Maybe it's my naiveitae, but can someone, in a logical fashion, explain to me why the economic practices of 1992 to 2000 were bad?


Because EVERYONE benefitted economically. You know, Socialism.
2012-12-21 12:10:57 AM  
2 votes:
Thank God for the Tea Party. Who else is going to stand up for the multi-billionaires?
2012-12-21 12:02:57 AM  
2 votes:

thornhill: BionicCrab: This is pretty amazing. JB's proposal only raised taxes on millionaires, literally, and the baggers told him to stuff it. Incredible.

This is really it -- the GOP provided clear proof that they rather see everyone pay more in taxes than just millionaires. House members in safe districts are going to be ok come 2014, but it could end up being a very awkward cycle for Republicans running statewide.


The operating theory in the GOP right now may be:

1) Presidents own the economy.

2) Parties in opposition to the President typically do well in off-year elections, especially in a second term.

That would seem to indicate continuing a strategy of deliberately tanking the economy, even though that failed in this year's election.

And it might actually work, depending on how desperate the electorate is in 2014.

Add to that the fact that every GOP member has a group of lunatics back in his or her home district looking for an excuse to primary them and run with someone slightly to the right of Franco, and you've pretty much got the recipe for the situation we're in right now.
2012-12-21 12:01:22 AM  
2 votes:

Mentat: From the perspective of the economy, it doesn't matter where the money is being spent so long as it's being spent.  Long term, obviously, it would be better to reallocate to domestic spending, but that's not the issue with the fiscal cliff.


That's not right at all. Spending it on infrastructure produces more longterm economic activity than defense spending. Taking Hurricane Sandy as an example, if we spent $6 billion or so on a sea wall that could prevent flooding to Lower Manhattan, that would prevent future huge economic losses when Lower Manhattan floods. Or just think of all the economic activity that can occur thanks to a bridge or highway.
2012-12-21 12:00:11 AM  
2 votes:

Gosling: demaL-demaL-yeH: Seriously, Mr. President, fill all of the empty federal benches and hang it on the Republicant's.

This would also be a good idea, They're fighting him on the Cabinet too, so might as well hang some recess appointments on them to drive home the point of who farking won.


but then the GOP won't want to ever make a deal with Obama ever....oh, right.  well then f*ck it, he should do what you guys said.
2012-12-20 11:56:47 PM  
2 votes:

Seth'n'Spectrum: You clearly don't remember the healthcare reform wrangling. Half the fault was Obama's for not pushing forward on his own, but she should get a lot of flack for the bill being reduced to the husk it is now.


Pelosi accomplished a hell of a lot more in her two years as Speaker than Boehner has.  She would have accomplished a lot more if not for the Senate.  Where Obama was at fault was in negotiating with himself before the negotiations began.  At the time, he still believed the GOP were rational actors.  He clearly doesn't believe that anymore.
2012-12-20 11:56:38 PM  
2 votes:
www.akawilliam.com

We are so boned.
2012-12-20 11:49:13 PM  
2 votes:

InmanRoshi: Cantor promised Boehner that he could deliver the votes .... just like Littlefinger promised Ned Stark he would deliver the Gold Cloaks.


which...technically...littlefinger DID do.  He just neglected to mention which side they'd be on when they showed up.
2012-12-20 11:48:33 PM  
2 votes:

sonnyboy11: Someone please help me out here with a non-partisan assessment of the situation. As I understand it, if we go over this so called "fiscal cliff" we run the chance of going into another recession. Is this chance of recession the only real reason not to strike some kind of deal now? And how likely is it we would slip into this possible recession if tax rates are left alone?

I


First of all, it's not a fiscal cliff, more of a fiscal slope that gets steeper each month into 2013. People will get smaller paychecks starting Jan. 1 (they won't lose their jobs right away), spending cuts will be the biggest pain first. Doctors will shun Medicaid and Medicare patients beginning immediately, defense contractors probably won't lay people off wholesale at the beginning, but it could happen if programs start getting chopped pretty quick. Lots of other areas where spending will dry up will be affected too.

I am not sold on the fact that we will actually dip back into a recession even if there's no movement for an entire year. It may be a wasted year as far as GDP growth is concerned, but it's not going to even last a full year.

If a deal isn't done come Jan. 1, taxes are going up on everyone. It becomes much easier for Obama/ Democratic Senators to start throwing out bills to cut taxes and watch the GOP burn as they shoot them down out of spite. Also, both parties will probably cave fairly quickly on spending measures for health care/defense.

This will all be resolved around the time of the Super Bowl at the latest and any tax cut is likely to be retroactive to Jan. 1 if we go over the slope.
2012-12-20 11:45:38 PM  
2 votes:
To quote Jennifer Rubin (a conservative): "House R's humiliate their speaker, hand Obama a sword and discredit their ability to govern.. what's the encore?"
2012-12-20 11:41:50 PM  
2 votes:
And in case anyone thinks I'm taking joy in this, going over the cliff will probably fark me, as in "Holy shiat I'm middle aged and have to change careers".  But if that's what it takes to restore sanity to the government and the GOP and to break the power of the Tea Party, maybe that's what we have to do.
2012-12-20 11:34:29 PM  
2 votes:
If there was ever a time to dust off the ole EPIC FAIL meme.........
2012-12-20 11:34:08 PM  
2 votes:
Someone please help me out here with a non-partisan assessment of the situation. As I understand it, if we go over this so called "fiscal cliff" we run the chance of going into another recession. Is this chance of recession the only real reason not to strike some kind of deal now? And how likely is it we would slip into this possible recession if tax rates are left alone?

I
2012-12-20 11:33:50 PM  
2 votes:
Honestly, did we really think this would end any differently? Boehner has no control over his fellow House Republicans. This has happened every time they've gone to the negotiation table. Boehner offers something, his party balks at it, negotiations fall through. You may as well bet on another "kick the can down the road" vote, as that's the only thing that they might agree on.
2012-12-20 11:33:33 PM  
2 votes:
There is almost nothing that gives me more joy than watching the GOP screw themselves over.

How can he not take Obama's deal now? He can't get the votes to pass his own deal in the Republican house.

GOP you suck!!!
2012-12-20 11:32:15 PM  
2 votes:
Must admit I got a kick out of the author's use of the Speakers full name.

John A. Boehner

How did anybody ever take this guy seriously?

Are we all getting shiat on because John A. Boehner got picked on one too may times in public school?

Is that why he has a hard-on for defunding public education?

Was three questions enough?
2012-12-20 11:28:49 PM  
2 votes:

Darth_Lukecash: Worse. Speaker. Of. The. House. Ever.

This man is bad at his job.


How quickly they forget......

the-american-journal.com

t0.gstatic.com

1.bp.blogspot.com

images.sodahead.com

4.bp.blogspot.com


/The Adulterer laughs in your general direction.
2012-12-20 11:25:00 PM  
2 votes:
Eric cantor has been like a snake in the grass, waiting for boehner to fark hisself. He got his wish
2012-12-20 11:22:29 PM  
2 votes:
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
2012-12-20 11:21:54 PM  
2 votes:
I thought I'd seen it all when the Soviet Union collapsed. Now, the Republican party.
2012-12-20 11:15:54 PM  
2 votes:
Cry havoc! And let slip the cuts to war!
2012-12-20 11:04:01 PM  
2 votes:
Wow I spent all my energy and vitriol on two redlit threads. GOP is farked beyond all hope. To be honest I'm kind of scared of what is going to happen to the economy if nothing is done.
2012-12-21 11:22:15 AM  
1 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: If the GOP is "already talking about it", then why didnt they pass plan B? You seem to think its a forgone conclusion that the dems will be in the driver's seat in January and get what Obama originally wanted. If that is so obvious, why wouldn't the GOP try to make/take a better deal now? At least throw plan b out there and see what the dems come back with.


For a few reasons:

1) The GOP is currently very dysfunctional. There's a flatout civil war happening between the old guard and the Teahadists.
2) The Plan B had a number of poison pills in it that would have further screwed the middle class and poor, and many in the party realized it.
3) Plan B had zero chance of passing the Senate or being signed even if it did.
4) Maybe there are reasonable people currently in the GOP who are simply sick of all these games and want to get this resolved. "Plan B" was a waste of time. There are plenty of Republicans who were FOR the latest Obama offer that Boehner scoffed at.

The democrats don't have to come back with ANYTHING. There's already a bill that passed through the Senate making all the Bush tax cuts for people making under $250k permanent that's been sitting on Boehner's desk for months. Also, Obama and the democrats realize they have all the leverage in the world right now.

Look, I've been a Republican for 25 years now. I have never seen a GOP Congressional class so full of derp that they can't work to get a deal done. They've gone way too far to the right and a lot of people just don't seem to see it.
2012-12-21 11:17:18 AM  
1 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: If they were going to cave to Obama's demands, then why didn't they pass plan B?


The plan B vote was a vote of no confidence in Boehner. After January 3, when the cliff has been passed, the markets are tanking, and the Republicans are taking enormous heat from all sides for the mess, the new Speaker, whoever he/she may be, will be under enormous pressure to get a compromise deal through. They already played chicken and lost. Playing it yet again isn't going to work
2012-12-21 11:15:52 AM  
1 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: Dog Welder: Debeo Summa Credo: So you think the house will pass Obama's offer in January, even though they couldn't pass boehner's plan B now? What makes you think that will happen? The dems gains in the new congress?

They'll just pass an extension for all and try to blame the dems, no?

Anyway, thanks for your prediction. We'll see how it turns out.


Because the GOP are already talking about it. See the link a few entries up.

When we go over the cliff, Obama will rescind the offer of the $400k limit. So...we go over the cliff, and Obama comes out and says, "Here's the deal: we reduce taxes on all income under $250k." Are the GOP actually going to vote against that? They'd be cutting their own balls off. Obama will hammer the GOP in his Inaugural address AND hammer the GOP in his State of the Union address. The GOP were idiots not to take this last offer. Obama told them as much, and the GOP tried to run an end around to get their way, which failed spectacularly.

If the GOP is "already talking about it", then why didnt they pass plan B? You seem to think its a forgone conclusion that the dems will be in the driver's seat in January and get what Obama originally wanted. If that is so obvious, why wouldn't the GOP try to make/take a better deal now? At least throw plan b out there and see what the dems come back with.


Because the GOP is now being hobbled by the Tea Derpers who refuse to go along with ANY tax increases at all. They make up enough of a percentage of the current GOP House that if they don't go along, it doesn't get passed out of the House.

And they are NOT in a good mood after their members got stripped of their House positions of authority. They're angry, they feel betrayed and they're not going to play along. The Plan B debacle proved that beyond the shadow of a doubt.
2012-12-21 10:56:50 AM  
1 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: So you think the house will pass Obama's offer in January, even though they couldn't pass boehner's plan B now? What makes you think that will happen? The dems gains in the new congress?

They'll just pass an extension for all and try to blame the dems, no?

Anyway, thanks for your prediction. We'll see how it turns out.



Because the GOP are already talking about it. See the link a few entries up.

When we go over the cliff, Obama will rescind the offer of the $400k limit. So...we go over the cliff, and Obama comes out and says, "Here's the deal: we reduce taxes on all income under $250k." Are the GOP actually going to vote against that? They'd be cutting their own balls off. Obama will hammer the GOP in his Inaugural address AND hammer the GOP in his State of the Union address. The GOP were idiots not to take this last offer. Obama told them as much, and the GOP tried to run an end around to get their way, which failed spectacularly.
2012-12-21 10:50:24 AM  
1 votes:

jst3p: keylock71: Felgraf: keylock71:

Is taking arguments from Fark into the real world and trying to get someone to lose their job from it allowed? I would think that would be breaking a rule of some sort.

I sent a heads up to the Mods... All he's doing is giving everyone a good laugh over hear at the studio, though. Talk about butt hurt. Jeez.

Yeah, but you have to wonder if he has done it before and if it has actually had an impact on someone. I would be thrilled if this were the end of that full of shiat troll.


Wow. This thread was kinda boring when I went to bed, too. Good to know that Derp Pipes isn't trolling at all and really is that much of a blithering, self-absorbed shiatstain.
2012-12-21 10:42:26 AM  
1 votes:

keylock71: Felgraf: keylock71:

Is taking arguments from Fark into the real world and trying to get someone to lose their job from it allowed? I would think that would be breaking a rule of some sort.

I sent a heads up to the Mods... All he's doing is giving everyone a good laugh over hear at the studio, though. Talk about butt hurt. Jeez.


Yeah, but you have to wonder if he has done it before and if it has actually had an impact on someone. I would be thrilled if this were the end of that full of shiat troll.
2012-12-21 10:37:39 AM  
1 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: Well, now it gets even more interesting. If the GOP won't even pass plan B, then what is next?

Plan C will likely be a temporary extension of all cuts. Obama will than have to choose between rates going up for all or for none.

Predictions?

I'd like to see Obama say that We need to go back to Clinton levels for all taxpayers, and that we'll just have to suck up the adverse near term economic impact. By the end of 2013 we'll be growing again and also on the path to fiscal responsibility. Obama's legacy will be as the president that made the tough decision to start us on that path, and he can sidestep blame in the short term by blaming the GOP.

What I expect will happen is a temporary extension of all or virtually all the cuts, with a concession from the GOP to raise the debt ceiling to an amount sufficient to cover debt growth for that amount of time, with dems trying to take advantage politically for the GOP not allowing rates for the rich to go up.

Anybody else care to prognosticate? Be specific rather than "hurrdurr GOP implode" fantasies.


You're failing to grasp the simple reality that the public is currently in an anti-GOP mood and are already blaming the GOP for the failure to find a compromise.

Their inability to move a bit from their positions means that when we go over the cliff, it's the GOP that'll catch the flack and the Democrats know it. So, they don't have to negotiate at all with the GOP. They can dictate terms and they 'have' been, if you'll notice.

They're in a very powerful position of leverage and they're being ruthless about making the most of that leverage. They're going to get what they want, one way or the other, and the GOP will catch the blame, one way or the other. It's the knife or the gun. Only two choices here and the only difference is which one is more painful for the GOP to endure.

If they try and compromise, they get a revolt from the Tea Derpers and it fails. If they don't try and compromise, they get 100% of the blame for the cliff and then have to go along with bipartisan bills to lower tax rates on the Middle Class after the 1st of the year. The Democrats will refuse to have anything to do with a bill that only cuts rates for the rich and the GOP will be stuck holding the bag for that one, too.

They have no easy way out. On one side they have an angry public and a strong Democratic party, and on the other side, they have their own rabid base and the Tea Derpers in the House.
2012-12-21 10:25:33 AM  
1 votes:

Zeb Hesselgresser: Listen you farking clowns:

Link


upload.wikimedia.org
"I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you over the sound of how awesome my deficit spending was."
2012-12-21 10:04:17 AM  
1 votes:

deanis: Cuthbert Allgood: Amazing. I really am enjoying watching Fartbongo push the repubs off the cliff.

Can someone explain what "fartbongo" means? Is it just a lazy attempt at comedy or is there some meme I don't know about?


Victoria Jackson came up with "Fartbama", some other racist came up with "Obongo". Snarky Farkers combined them to make "Fartbongo".
2012-12-21 09:43:07 AM  
1 votes:

Dog Welder: Boehner made a huge boneheaded gamble and is going to pay a steep political price for this. I'll be shocked if he's still Speaker in 30 days.


On top of that, he's effectively lost any chance at negotiating anything he or his party wanted at all and now the issue for republicans has become a matter of "give Obama what he wants or dig in your heels and very publicly and loudly make it obvious that you're the party causing the pain people are feeling in their pocketbooks".

Obama can basically walk out on stage twice next month and say from his bully pulpits, with complete and absolute honesty, "Your taxes just went up, your grandma can't afford her medicine now and your town just lost 500 army base jobs because the republicans rejected a fix that the republicans proposed".

Obama's hands are completely clean in this and the republicans are completely covered in the feces they flung at each other.

What a bunch of nimrods. Although republicans and their supporters were warned repeatedly by the rest of us that this was the inevitable outcome at some point if they didn't stop acting like spoiled children.
Really though, who could have honestly known that throwing a 2 years long, foot-stomping, face-reddening, ear-splitting temper tantrum because the guy in the white house is a black democrat wouldn't result in sound policy?
2012-12-21 09:29:06 AM  
1 votes:

shastacola: I'm not sure why Boehner is taking the rap for this one. I blame the teatards and the teatards who elected them.


Like it or not, they're his teatards. He must have known that the only thing they'd vote for is a bill that they drafted themselves and even then would hem and haw as to whether the cuts go deep enough, and ultimately likely reject that.

What he could have done instead is try to find a middle ground that most, if not all, of the house Dems would vote for and then try to find the 20 or so GOP reps he'd need to make the vote pass by the skin of it's teeth. Instead, he put together a package that might garner some support from his party but would not get either Dem or teabagger votes.
2012-12-21 09:19:54 AM  
1 votes:
The point of Plan B was to fashion a parachute for Republicans for January. As it stands, if the new year arrives with no deal in place, Obama will have the upper hand. The full expiration of the Bush tax cuts will make the budget baseline more favorable, turning any change in taxes into a tax cut. And Obama, who is highly popular, will be able to attack Republicans, who are highly unpopular, for their insistence on keeping taxes low for the rich, which is highly unpopular, at the cost of raising taxes on the middle class, which is also highly unpopular.  Link

After Jan 1st, Obama's $1.2T tax hike becomes Obama's $3.8T tax cut. Boom.
2012-12-21 08:39:33 AM  
1 votes:
I am outraged that the congresscritters are getting a paid holiday on christmas eve! They should work like the rest of the federal employees. Those welfare queens.
2012-12-21 08:31:19 AM  
1 votes:
If you tank the economy, you fark wits, we'll all want to revolt against the rich

/PS, I'm not an American
2012-12-21 08:05:34 AM  
1 votes:

Thunderpipes: Maybe if you actually, you know, worked hard instead of wanting handouts, your family would be in better shape? Always someone more poor than you. Maybe you should be punished, stripped of your iPad and have everything given to them. Not fair you have some money


Ahh .. .isn't that cute, another special little snowflake who believes he deserves a cookie because he gets up in the morning and goes to work like the rest of us.

Sorry you wanted to spend several trillion dollars needlessly blowing up brown skin people, who had nothing to do with 9/11 so you could feverishly stroke your flaccid impotent shaft to tactical pron on the Military Channel and put a meaningless trite bumper sticker on your car, but I'm afraid the check is due. Time to cough up like the rest of us.
2012-12-21 07:59:34 AM  
1 votes:

Thunderpipes: Maybe if you actually, you know, worked hard instead of wanting handouts, your family would be in better shape? Always someone more poor than you. Maybe you should be punished, stripped of your iPad and have everything given to them. Not fair you have some money.


www.troycitydesign.com

I'm self-employed, teach part-time and have another part time job. I work six days a week, putting in 40-50 hours. I receive nothing in the form of "handouts". Every dollar I make is a dollar I hustled for, sometimes employing sub-contractors when I'm lucky enough to get a big enough contract requiring them. I work within my community and all my clients are small businesses.

In short, shove your ignorant bullshiat up your ass.
2012-12-21 07:34:21 AM  
1 votes:

Alphax: I've heard more than once that the 'do-nothing Congress' of Truman's time passed 10 times as many bills as this one.


www.politicalruminations.com
2012-12-21 06:56:41 AM  
1 votes:

Serious Black: Insatiable Jesus: Serious Black: It's time to face reality. It's time to stop mincing words. The Republican Party as constitutied in Congress and many state legislatures today is an insurgency. They are trying to kill the federal government and the country.


But if we're a legitimate democracy, we have a way to shut that whole thing down, right?

Seriously? What's left? Is there some point where they break the law in their shenanigans? Have they broken them already? Can we do ABSCAM again?

I don't think there is sadly, especially not with how SCOTUS has neutered corruption rules for legislators.

I think the best-case scenario for crushing this insurgency is probably for Obama to call for a clean hike of the debt ceiling. He's already done a form of that by calling for the McConnell provision to be made permanent, but I'm almost certain he would ask for a clean hike in lieu of of that. When the GOP refuses to raise the debt ceiling and we hit it, Obama should refuse to declare the debt ceiling unconstitutional and let the GOP off the hook. He's also done that by saying he does not believe the 14th Amendment makes the debt ceiling unconstitutional. Instead, he should make interest obligations the first priority to pay from tax withholding, and he should direct other federal agencies to shut down and direct state contributions to end based on his priorities with the remaining incoming funds from tax withholding. This would almost certainly trigger a market collapse that, if left to continue for long enough, would cause a worldwide recession and push countries to start looking for a new reserve currency since they couldn't buy US bonds. As long as President Obama continually reiterated that he does not have the power to violate the debt ceiling and issue new bonds to reopen the government, the public would surely break against the GOP and force them to do what Obama wants.


Hmm, that sounds suspiciously like assuming your opponents are more compassionate than you are.. I'd call that a bad bet.
2012-12-21 06:48:04 AM  
1 votes:

jaybeezey: When Clinton balanced the budget, it was because he had a republican congress. No one ever really remembers who was in congress and writing laws after the fact, they just remember who the president was when things are either good or go to shiat.


Actually no the tax rates Clinton passed was the first year in office when there was a democrat congress. The Republicans stood up and said the budget was going to destroy America. Only at the midterms were the republicans but those tax rates were already locked in and spending went UP when those Republicans got in.


Please stop the BS revisionist BS, because it's not true. Democrats passed the tax increases which Republicans said would destroy the economy (it didn't) and when Republicans got in SPENDING WENT UP.
2012-12-21 06:47:31 AM  
1 votes:

gulogulo: relcec: taxes have to go up. can't you see that? we are in this predicament because people like you want shiat, but do not want to pay taxes in the first place.

I'm not rich. In fact, on my salary, I am not even middle class. And I don't even mind the taxes as much as I do the cuts to important things like..conserving our natural resources. How dare I want shiat, right?


you want stuff, but don't want to help pay for it. you are biatching about taxes. you are part of the problem. if people like you weren't all around me they wouldn't even be contemplating whatever it is you like that they are contemplating cutting.
chose one, cool stufff, or tax cuts.
2012-12-21 06:40:22 AM  
1 votes:

SevenizGud: Look to Greece. That's where we are headed.


Greece fails to collect over 30% of its tax burden because tax avoidance is the national sport. We are nothing like Greece.
2012-12-21 06:39:56 AM  
1 votes:

relcec: taxes have to go up. can't you see that? we are in this predicament because people like you want shiat, but do not want to pay taxes in the first place.


I'm not rich. In fact, on my salary, I am not even middle class. And I don't even mind the taxes as much as I do the cuts to important things like..conserving our natural resources. How dare I want shiat, right?
2012-12-21 06:28:16 AM  
1 votes:
Weird how Obama is holding the middle class hostage, all to punish people who create jobs.

But that is what Democrats do. Punishing successful people to no gain is worth more than doing the right thing.
2012-12-21 05:33:26 AM  
1 votes:

RandomRandom: hdhale: No, everyone in both parties owns this charles foxtrot. The Dems are being just as inflexible and stupid. Now everybody gets to eat a shiat sandwich and like it.

Put down the crack pipe.

The President just won an electoral landslide running on the platform of tax increases for those making over $250K. You don't have to like it, but that's the fact jack.

Even after winning another four years, along with netting more seats in both the House and Senate, the President has been negotiating with the Republicans in good faith. Why? I don't know, I'd tell them to get farked, but Obama actually went well past 1/2 way towards their position. He moved from $250K to $400k, he also accepted cuts to social programs, he didn't have to do any of that. The Bush tax cuts will automatically expire on January 1. Obama has an automatic win on January 1, yet Obama is still negotiating, still giving ground.

Exactly what ground have the Republican given?


They haven't given up any ground at all. For twenty years, they've pledged to never vote for a tax increase on anyone under any circumstances. With John Boehner pulling this bill, we know for sure that at least a majority of his caucus is still holding to that plege and refusing to vote for tax increases on anyone under any circumstances. And this is even though three out of four self-identified Republicans say such a pledge is a bad idea. We also have Mitch McConnell filibustering a bill that he personally took to Harry Reid for a vote because he didn't want it to be put to an up-or-down vote. And that doesn't even account for the debt ceiling shenanigans that happened last summer or the numerous insane attempts of state legislatures to nullify federal laws that have been affirmatively declared to be constitutional by the Supreme Court.

Merriam-Wester defines insurgency as "the quality or state of being insurgent; specifically a condition of revolt against a government that is less than an organized revolution and that is not recognized as belligerency." Similarly, insurgent is defined as "a person who revolts against civil authority or an established government; especially a rebel not recognized as a belligerent."

It's time to face reality. It's time to stop mincing words. The Republican Party as constitutied in Congress and many state legislatures today is an insurgency. They are trying to kill the federal government and the country.
2012-12-21 04:42:24 AM  
1 votes:

gideon: Maybe it's my naiveitae, but can someone, in a logical fashion, explain to me why the economic practices of 1992 to 2000 were bad?


The problem is with the fiscal cliff is that it cuts the deficit too quickly and will probably damage the economy as a result.

It's actually what the Tea Party wanted, except that it cuts Defense spending as well as domestic spending. It's like Hoover all over again.

www.ecommcode2.com
2012-12-21 02:52:19 AM  
1 votes:
I can't wait until we go off the cliff like thelma and louise. immediately afterward, obama can give tax cuts to the middle class, and republicans will be powerless to stop him (because they can't vote against a tax cut for their constituency).

excited!
2012-12-21 01:40:26 AM  
1 votes:

fatassbastard: COMALite J: No, he really is the worst.
Not just in incompetence, but also in sheer evil and willingness to corrupt the process without a hint of shame nor conscience.

Wow... is that video completely legit? Because if it is, man... what a load of bollocks.


Yes, it's legit. This is also why the Republican Party would do very well to never, ever, mention the word "Teleprompter" ever again.

Keep in mind what it shows that even Ben Swann didn't notice (or at least didn't comment on): Bœhner didn't show a hint of shame at what he did. He did it without a moment's hesitation.

Contrast this with the unfortunately much more well known similar situation with the DNC and their party platform vote on symbolic language referencing God and recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Same basic scenario (though without having to resort to kidnapping and false imprisonment of two whole States' worth of delegates as well as the leader of the opposition, and having earlier prevented the seating of a third State's delegates, all to stack the vote in the Party bosses' favor): they needed a two-thirds supermajority (note: that means that for each and every "Nay" vote, there must be a bare minimum of two "Aye" votes! More than that if it's a voice vote to get past the "absolutely no question" threshold), but the actual vote couldn't even be said to result in a clear simple majority by voice vote. Also, in both cases, the "results" were pre-scripted on the teleprompter.

If it was close to twice as loud for the "Ayes" but the chair couldn't tell if it was truly at least twice as numerous, the proper parliamentary procedure is to call for a show of hands or some other more accurate means of tabulating the vote (e.g. roll call). Neither Speaker Bœhner at the RNC nor Mayor Villiarosa at the DNC did this, yet the Mayor did at least show hesitation and unwillingness to falsify the vote. He called for a repeat of the voice vote three times, and was clearly torn because he knew that it couldn't even be said to be a clear simple majority, let alone a two-for-one (two-thirds) supermajority. Unfortunately, he finally knuckled under to the party bosses and read the script like a good boy. I'd've had a lot more respect for him had he stood his ground and done a role call or some such, or simply declared the obvious, that they did not have a two-thirds supermajority, and the motion to amend the platform did not carry. I still respect that he at least showed that he had a conscience, even if he squelched it in the end when it really counted.

Contrast Bœhner and the RNC. First off, while this was a Party rule and not a Platform change, in the grand scheme of things, this was a far more important vote. The DNC one was merely symbolic. This one has actual far-reaching ramifications from now on, as Swann pointed out.

But more importantly, the RNC bosses resorted to subtrefuge to prevent much of the opposition from participating in the vote, and even then they couldn't even muster a clear simple majority, let alone 2:1 (two-thirds) supermajority! Yet Bœhner didn't even hesitate. No calls for recounts from him! No, he just barreled on ahead, reading the pre-scripted results and pre-scripted (and false) claims of lack of objections, and passed the rule change that forever disenfranchises all grassroots movements from power in the GOP!

About the objections: when the vote is called, you can clearly hear shouts of "Objection!" and "Point of Order!" Yet, simultaneous with this, there erupted a seemingly spontaneous cry of "U.S.A.!! U.S.A.!!" that drowned out those shouts. Coincidence? No! We have actual testimony from delegates that they were previously instructed to shout "U.S.A.!!" right after the voice vote results were announced! It was not spontaneous!

Why would they be instructed to do that? Because under parliamentary procedure, if the Chair hears either of those things shouted from the floor by even one delegate, he must immediately suspend everything until the objection has been heard and resolved! The shouts of "U.S.A.!!"gave Bœhner probable cause to claim that he heard those objections!

In short, what we see here is the Speaker of the U.S. Congress House of Representatives, arguably the most powerful directly elected person in the entire nation, pervert the parliamentary procedure process for a major rule change vote. He did that to his own Party's delegates!

This brings up a vital question: if he's willing to do that at his own Party's convention without a moment's hesitation nor even a twinge of shame, how can we be sure that he would never do, or even has never done, likewise in Congress!? Have bills been passed to the Senate or even to the President for signature that the majority voted against? Have bills been prevented from passage that the majority voted for!? Only he knows for sure, but now we have powerful reason to suspect that this may well be the case.
2012-12-21 01:26:32 AM  
1 votes:

robodog: I'm starting to think that my coworkers decision to move his 401k into bonds and cash on December 1st wasn't so crazy. What does anyone figure, a 5% drop in the NYSE tomorrow?

/still think their monied overlords will put a gun to their political heads and tell them to make it happen


It's going to be bad. Check out the pre-market/futures on CNBC's website.Those are PRIOR to the start of the trading day.

/on phone, no linky
2012-12-21 01:04:07 AM  
1 votes:

NukeEuropeNow: enry:
For all the misguided hate on Pelosi, she really got stuff done.

You know who else got shiat done?


Clinton?

/What'd I win
2012-12-21 12:51:02 AM  
1 votes:

This Face Left Blank: The Teabaggers are the ones who are the ball-lickers. The Democrats are gonna maintain our social safety net while they watch and cry like little whiny biatches. Once we get to Washington and find those Tea Party farks who is holding up progress... we're gonna make them eat our bills, then shiat out our bills, and then eat their shiat that's made up of our bills that we made 'em eat. Then you're all you Senate GOP motherfarks are next.

Love,

Jay and Silent Bob.


7.media.bustedtees.cvcdn.com
2012-12-21 12:47:27 AM  
1 votes:

sonnyboy11: Resin33: Why would cuts in defense spending be a bad thing? I think too much is spent on defense already and am all in favor of cuts in that area. Where is the negative component?

Because the defense industry employs a lot of people. People who are educated and paid very handsomely. A lot of white collar people would lose their jobs, which will be a bigger impact to the economy than all the construction workers who lost their jobs in 2008.

So because we are worried some defense contractors would lose their jobs, we should just stay the course and let government ram something through to help save them? I'm sorry but that's not a good reason. I lost my job this past year and had to retrain and re-adjust my skills to get back into the job market doing something at the salary I desire. I'm sorry for all these defense contractors who are paid handsomely and might lose their jobs- but tough situation. They're educated and they'll be fine. And I'm not saying I want the economy overall to suffer or want to see a massive increase in unemployment. But defense spending needs to be cut, even if pain is felt by us all in the short term.


It isn't just that. It is that the cuts, by design to incentivise a compromise, are inefficient as all hell. So expect more jobs lost than a controlled 10% cut would have AND 'good' money turned bad as programs cost 90% of what they used to but deliver 80% of the results. Our budgets are bloated, but they aren't random, and the bloat isn't going to be what gets cut.

You won't see the overpriced backscatters get sold off by tsa, you will see them kept in a garage or left unmaintained while agents get fired. I know, fark the tsa, but double fark the massive spending on mediocre toys. The political will that bought them isn't taking the cut here. The employees likely havw less voice than the machines.

And so on throughout both the defense department AND the "entitlements".

Only a foolish libertarian would want the cuts over a compromise. The kind who just wants to watch the gov burn and doesn't give a shiat about consequences.
2012-12-21 12:29:04 AM  
1 votes:
i.imgur.com
You mean that our taxes will go up after all?  You and your stupid Tea Party idea!
2012-12-21 12:25:21 AM  
1 votes:

Resin33: Why would cuts in defense spending be a bad thing? I think too much is spent on defense already and am all in favor of cuts in that area. Where is the negative component?

Because the defense industry employs a lot of people. People who are educated and paid very handsomely. A lot of white collar people would lose their jobs, which will be a bigger impact to the economy than all the construction workers who lost their jobs in 2008.


So because we are worried some defense contractors would lose their jobs, we should just stay the course and let government ram something through to help save them? I'm sorry but that's not a good reason. I lost my job this past year and had to retrain and re-adjust my skills to get back into the job market doing something at the salary I desire. I'm sorry for all these defense contractors who are paid handsomely and might lose their jobs- but tough situation. They're educated and they'll be fine. And I'm not saying I want the economy overall to suffer or want to see a massive increase in unemployment. But defense spending needs to be cut, even if pain is felt by us all in the short term.
2012-12-21 12:22:26 AM  
1 votes:
Make light of Boehner all you like, but the fact is that he probably does want to compromise, and is in reality an OK guy, but his party is loaded with radical fundamentalists now. Nobody is going to be able to work with the mindless radicals, and, as has been said, the GOP is now doomed.
2012-12-21 12:20:46 AM  
1 votes:

Zasteva: That's not entirely true. Money that is spent on weapon systems does not have the same positive effect on the economy. Compare building an fighter to building a road, for example. In both cases, you get benefits of the pay going to workers and spending on materials. But with the fighter, the benefits stop there. The road, on the other hand, provides ongoing economic benefits to everyone who uses it long after it is built.

That's not to say that that you can't waste money on a useless road, or that you don't get some benefits from security provided by a fighter. But currently we have plenty of fighters, and an aging and often inadequate infrastructure in many other areas.


We're not in disagreement on any of this.  But again, we're talking about different time frames.  Rachel Maddow showed a graph tonight that showed projected growth figures for the next two quarters.  If we go off the cliff, growth will go from 3.1% (3Q2012) to 2% (4Q2012) to -3.9% (1Q2013).  That's the time frame we're talking about.
2012-12-21 12:18:15 AM  
1 votes:
I miss the old fark counter that said every thread was even politically.
2012-12-21 12:16:46 AM  
1 votes:

Mentat: sonnyboy11: Why would cuts in defense spending be a bad thing? I think too much is spent on defense already and am all in favor of cuts in that area. Where is the negative component?

Take away politics for a minute.  Defense cuts represent a significant amount of spending that's suddenly going to go away.  Not reallocated, gone.  That's going to have an economic effect.  One of the straw men that conservatives use regarding the Great Depression is that it was war spending that got us out of the Depression, not the New Deal.  But by every measure, New Deal spending and defense spending had the same effect on the economy.  From the perspective of the economy, it doesn't matter where the money is being spent so long as it's being spent.  Long term, obviously, it would be better to reallocate to domestic spending, but that's not the issue with the fiscal cliff.


That's not entirely true. Money that is spent on weapon systems does not have the same positive effect on the economy. Compare building an fighter to building a road, for example. In both cases, you get benefits of the pay going to workers and spending on materials. But with the fighter, the benefits stop there. The road, on the other hand, provides ongoing economic benefits to everyone who uses it long after it is built.

That's not to say that that you can't waste money on a useless road, or that you don't get some benefits from security provided by a fighter. But currently we have plenty of fighters, and an aging and often inadequate infrastructure in many other areas.
2012-12-21 12:16:12 AM  
1 votes:

gideon: Maybe it's my naivete, but can someone, in a logical fashion, explain to me why the economic practices of 1992 to 2000 were bad?


Because the president was a black Democrat.
2012-12-21 12:16:06 AM  
1 votes:

sonnyboy11: Again, appreciate the insight.


i48.tinypic.com

"I'm surrounded by crazy people! Michele Bachmann actually believes the sh*t that vomits from her mouth! How am I supposed to make these people see reason? It's like herding f*cking cats! In fact, that would probably be a whole helluva lot easier!"
2012-12-21 12:09:23 AM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: Gosling: demaL-demaL-yeH: Seriously, Mr. President, fill all of the empty federal benches and hang it on the Republicant's.

This would also be a good idea, They're fighting him on the Cabinet too, so might as well hang some recess appointments on them to drive home the point of who farking won.

but then the GOP won't want to ever make a deal with Obama ever....oh, right.  well then f*ck it, he should do what you guys said.


I thought it was the Senate that had to be in recess for the POTUS to make recess appointments.
2012-12-21 12:07:26 AM  
1 votes:

RobertBruce: Going over this "cliff" means small across the board budget cuts. when we should be talking about 40-50 percent cuts, especially to the military (the world can learn to survive without us -including Japan) but also including social security in a way that pays it to those who already paid in, while phasing it out for everyone else.


Fark that. Just get rid of the $##% cap!
2012-12-21 12:04:49 AM  
1 votes:

thornhill: Mentat: From the perspective of the economy, it doesn't matter where the money is being spent so long as it's being spent.  Long term, obviously, it would be better to reallocate to domestic spending, but that's not the issue with the fiscal cliff.

That's not right at all. Spending it on infrastructure produces more longterm economic activity than defense spending. Taking Hurricane Sandy as an example, if we spent $6 billion or so on a sea wall that could prevent flooding to Lower Manhattan, that would prevent future huge economic losses when Lower Manhattan floods. Or just think of all the economic activity that can occur thanks to a bridge or highway.


Once again, we're arguing about different time scales.  I absolutely agree that in the long term, domestic spending is better because it represents an investment that will generate greater returns than what we put in.  But in the immediate term, a sudden loss of government spending is going to have a negative economic impact.  RIGHT NOW, it doesn't matter where the money is being spent, only that it's being spent.  If that happens, it's going to have an immediate negative economic effect.
2012-12-21 12:03:45 AM  
1 votes:

RobertBruce: Going over this "cliff" means small across the board budget cuts. when we should be talking about 40-50 percent cuts, especially to the military (the world can learn to survive without us -including Japan) but also including social security in a way that pays it to those who already paid in, while phasing it out for everyone else.


Social safety nets are a good thing. They can help provide long term care for those that have eaten too many lead paint chips, like yourself.

We got ya bro.
2012-12-21 12:00:38 AM  
1 votes:

Dusk-You-n-Me: Mentat: From the perspective of the economy, it doesn't matter where the money is being spent so long as it's being spent.

From the perspective of jobs, defense spending is the least effective way to create jobs relative to several other forms of domestic spending. It's capital intensive, not labor intensive.


You're right, but again, that's too long term for what we're talking about.  We're talking about a sudden and significant spending cut and in the immediate term, it doesn't matter what it's being spent on but rather that it's not being spent.
2012-12-21 12:00:28 AM  
1 votes:

incendi: Clearly, this just shows how unwilling Obama is to compromise.


Within a year you'll hear conservatives saying that Boehner made such significant concessions in his counteroffer that the Republican party couldn't support it, so that is proof that Obama didn't compromise enough if Democrats would still vote for his offer.
2012-12-21 12:00:10 AM  
1 votes:
Going over this "cliff" means small across the board budget cuts. when we should be talking about 40-50 percent cuts, especially to the military (the world can learn to survive without us -including Japan) but also including social security in a way that pays it to those who already paid in, while phasing it out for everyone else.
2012-12-20 11:54:10 PM  
1 votes:

doyner: Darth_Lukecash: Worse. Speaker. Of. The. House. Ever.

This man is bad at his job.

No one could be both Speaker and rooted in reality these days.  So basically Boener's timing for ascending to the speakership just sucked.

But that doesn't change the fact that he speaks really douchey in his press conferences.


SilentStrider: Worse than whats his apname before Pelosi?


Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin: How quickly they forget......
[pics of laughing Gingrich]
/The Adulterer laughs in your general direction.


enry: Naah. He's a disgusting human being but he was able to get bills passed.

Boehner is a disgusting human being that can't get bills passed.

For all the misguided hate on Pelosi, she really got stuff done.


MaudlinMutantMollusk: I. WILL. EAT. YOUR. SOUL.


No, he really is the worst.
Not just in incompetence, but also in sheer evil and willingness to corrupt the process without a hint of shame nor conscience.
2012-12-20 11:53:53 PM  
1 votes:

RandomRandom: So who's going to be the new Speaker of the House?


eric cantor?
2012-12-20 11:49:01 PM  
1 votes:

foreman3: DarkSkyForever: Now... just stay with me here... now why can't we just let tax rates rise back to Clinton levels?

Or, why not just go back to Clinton Spending Levels?


Something about the economy needing money injected into it and the private sector not being willing to do so and Europe and Japan showing us what happens when the government doesn't do it in situations like this?

I dunno, like history or something.
2012-12-20 11:47:04 PM  
1 votes:

sonnyboy11: Dusk-You-n-Me: sonnyboy11: Is this chance of recession the only real reason not to strike some kind of deal now?

We have to raise taxes and cut spending or else we'll go over the cliff which will result in us raising taxes and cutting spending.

So in short, this is all a buncha nonsense. Good. Let's go over the damn cliff already! Whatever it takes to get the wealthy back to paying their fair share.


Well, the House will either eat shiat or own the recession. Not a great prognosis.
2012-12-20 11:44:34 PM  
1 votes:

Mentat: Watching Eric Cantor run away from the press tonight would be hilarious if the consequences weren't so great. You never want to say never in politics, but it sure feels like the GOP screwed themselves tonight. If I were Obama, I would make another offer to Boehner (by choice, not because he's forced to) and see if they can get enough votes to push something through. Otherwise, cut Boehner out and see if Obama can get the votes himself.


I think it will help a deal to be reached actually. It will force Boehner to compromise because he MUST have Dem votes to pass any bill in the house.

Democrats believe they can pass a bill in the house ALREADY, but Boehner won't let it come up for a vote. They think they could get it passed now already so you point doesn't make sense.
2012-12-20 11:42:37 PM  
1 votes:

Dusk-You-n-Me: sonnyboy11: Is this chance of recession the only real reason not to strike some kind of deal now?

We have to raise taxes and cut spending or else we'll go over the cliff which will result in us raising taxes and cutting spending.


So in short, this is all a buncha nonsense. Good. Let's go over the damn cliff already! Whatever it takes to get the wealthy back to paying their fair share.
2012-12-20 11:41:19 PM  
1 votes:

Mentat: So all of you on the left who were raging at Obama for compromising, this is why I told you to relax.  The GOP is farking clown shoes.  The Democrats are united and have made several good faith compromises that they can show the people (including a tax cut bill that's passed the Senate), but the Tea Baggers are prepared to sink the ship out of spite.  Boehner has no control over them and now the knives are truly coming out.  All Obama has to do is sit back and wait.  If he can peel off enough GOP support to prevent a filibuster and push through a deal in the House, he doesn't need Boehner anymore.  If he can't, then he can sit back while we go over the cliff, let the GOP take the blame and then reset the terms after the first of the year.


I think you're right. In fact I think the 400k number he threw out there was a trap. He didn't honestly believe it would make it out of the Senate and I don't think he gives a crap if he ruffles some Dem feathers. They took it hook line and sinker. They refused the compromise on the tax rates, even refused the offer on social security and they have been drooling over that one. Plan B took it even farther to the extreme and they can't even get that out of the house.

We are going over the cliff. Everyones taxes are going to go up. Those fat cat defense contractors that support the republicans are looking at steep cuts. And on and on and on. By the time the new congress gets inaugurated they are going to have the entire planet pressuring them to get a farking deal done.

Make no mistake though. There is a civil war between establishment republicans and the tea party and it's a shooting war. The TP set Boehner up to fail just as much as the Whitehouse.

/not good for America at all
2012-12-20 11:40:31 PM  
1 votes:
Hmmm...I'm not one for conspiracy theories (well, that's not true, but it sounds better this way), but what if....WHAT IF....once Boohooner found out Super Grover supported his plan he felt the need to withdraw it, because he knows the GOP is about to eat Grover for Christmas dinner?
2012-12-20 11:39:54 PM  
1 votes:

Corvus: There is almost nothing that gives me more joy than watching the GOP screw themselves over.

How can he not take Obama's deal now? He can't get the votes to pass his own deal in the Republican house.

GOP you suck!!!


He can't even take Obama's deal, because he can't deliver votes on it.

At this point, Obama is better off going around him and working with Pelosi to reach out to whatever small sliver of sane moderates are left in the GOP to strike a deal that will get them to join the Democrats to get enough vote to pass the House. I know moderate sane Republicans are all but an extinct species, but there have to be some defense hawks from military districts who are shiatting bricks right now about now.
2012-12-20 11:39:17 PM  
1 votes:
From Politico:

"Things were so bad for Speaker John Boehner Thursday night, support for his Plan B tax bill so diminished, the limits of his power with his own party laid bare, that he stood in front of the House Republican Conference and recited the Serenity Prayer.

"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

Boehner nearly cried."
2012-12-20 11:39:08 PM  
1 votes:

Corvus: There is almost nothing that gives me more joy than watching the GOP screw themselves over.

How can he not take Obama's deal now? He can't get the votes to pass his own deal in the Republican house.

GOP you suck!!!


Watching Eric Cantor run away from the press tonight would be hilarious if the consequences weren't so great.  You never want to say never in politics, but it sure feels like the GOP screwed themselves tonight.  If I were Obama, I would make another offer to Boehner (by choice, not because he's forced to) and see if they can get enough votes to push something through.  Otherwise, cut Boehner out and see if Obama can get the votes himself.

And we've barely begun the gun control fight :)
2012-12-20 11:38:13 PM  
1 votes:
Looks like the Republicans are going to be blamed for higher taxes. How perfect is that?

We need to go thru tough times to start paying down the debt, might as well take down the Republicans at the same time.

/or, y'know, they could just compromise like big boys
//starting with extending the tax rates for 98% of Americans, if Boehner would just let it come to a vote
2012-12-20 11:38:11 PM  
1 votes:
I can only come up with two possible explanations for how the GOP is handling this:

1. They think that the next election cycle is too far away for it to matter that Obama currently has his highest approval rating since we killed bin Laden, and that a majority of Americans will blame the GOP if we go over the fiscal cliff.

2. Potato.
2012-12-20 11:36:33 PM  
1 votes:

sonnyboy11: Is this chance of recession the only real reason not to strike some kind of deal now?


We have to raise taxes and cut spending or else we'll go over the cliff which will result in us raising taxes and cutting spending.
2012-12-20 11:22:53 PM  
1 votes:
Good. Stay there.
2012-12-20 11:22:29 PM  
1 votes:
That's it. We're Boehned
2012-12-20 11:22:20 PM  
1 votes:
Does this mean we won't have another dozen headlines with this same unbelievably shiatty joke?
 
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