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(Washington Post)   Boehner aborts Plan B, Plan C is to go home for Christmas   (washingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, Boehner, christmas, Harry M. Reid, GOP leaders, House Speaker, Eric Cantor  
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10293 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Dec 2012 at 11:19 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-21 01:14:45 AM  

Gawdzila: Wow, the TP'ers and the rest of the Republicans must be incredibly stupid.
Now Obama, the Dems, and everyone else in the country knows that they're incapable of making even the smallest overtures at compromise, even after Obama made some very reasonable offers to meet in the middle. Either the Democrats will just find a few moderate Republicans (if such a thing exists) and barter for votes to get their plan passed ASAP and in the process probably get more of what they want than with Obama's last offer, or they will go over the cliff. At that point everyone will know that the Republicans are completely responsible for it, and the Dems will be able to negotiate from the standpoint of lowering taxes. Just watch how popular Republicans become if they try and stall tax cuts on everyone in the name of arguing for tax cuts on $250k+ earners.


Makes me believe the recent overtures from Obama to reach a solution were never much more than an exercise to help shore up the position of Democrats. Kind of a "hey- we tried to compromise!". There was little chance the Repubs were ever going to compromise. And they were so set in that course of action, now we can easily blame them for any negative outcome to all this. Dumb. Dumb dumb dumb.
 
2012-12-21 01:14:58 AM  

Fecal Conservative: Gosling: In a parliamentary system, we'd be calling new elections right about now.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS


Keep in mind that we had "new" elections just six weeks ago.
 
2012-12-21 01:15:03 AM  

eraser8: I've come to the conclusion that the teabaggers WANT a total collapse of government.

They seriously want it.  I'm not joking.

Many of them have been stockpiling guns and supplies and foodstuffs (just look at the things that are for sale on right wingnut websites) since the Clinton administration.  And, I think it would give them a perverse sort of thrill to be proved right...even if they are the ones almost wholly responsible for the collapse.

The major question I have is whether the Republican party will do what's right and tell its large contingent of lunatics to get lost (thereby relegating the party to minority status for a generation) or whether they'll say, "fark it" and take us down with them.


And knowing how our system of Disaster Capitalism works these days, the rich leading this rabble probably stand to profit immensely somehow.
 
2012-12-21 01:17:19 AM  
i90.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-21 01:17:50 AM  

sonnyboy11: Smackledorfer: sonnyboy11: Resin33: Why would cuts in defense spending be a bad thing? I think too much is spent on defense already and am all in favor of cuts in that area. Where is the negative component?

Because the defense industry employs a lot of people. People who are educated and paid very handsomely. A lot of white collar people would lose their jobs, which will be a bigger impact to the economy than all the construction workers who lost their jobs in 2008.

So because we are worried some defense contractors would lose their jobs, we should just stay the course and let government ram something through to help save them? I'm sorry but that's not a good reason. I lost my job this past year and had to retrain and re-adjust my skills to get back into the job market doing something at the salary I desire. I'm sorry for all these defense contractors who are paid handsomely and might lose their jobs- but tough situation. They're educated and they'll be fine. And I'm not saying I want the economy overall to suffer or want to see a massive increase in unemployment. But defense spending needs to be cut, even if pain is felt by us all in the short term.

It isn't just that. It is that the cuts, by design to incentivise a compromise, are inefficient as all hell. So expect more jobs lost than a controlled 10% cut would have AND 'good' money turned bad as programs cost 90% of what they used to but deliver 80% of the results. Our budgets are bloated, but they aren't random, and the bloat isn't going to be what gets cut.

You won't see the overpriced backscatters get sold off by tsa, you will see them kept in a garage or left unmaintained while agents get fired. I know, fark the tsa, but double fark the massive spending on mediocre toys. The political will that bought them isn't taking the cut here. The employees likely havw less voice than the machines.

And so on throughout both the defense department AND the "entitlements".

Only a foolish libertarian would want the cuts over a compr ...

Would you be able to better define the term "cuts" as it is used in your statement here and give some specifics? The last part of your statement doesn't really explain it. And why they are inefficient? It sounds a compelling argument. And if this comes off as lazy, I can certainly go find more details on my own. But it seems like you may have info immediately at hand.


Afaik it is ten percent across the board, each dept, etc. This means immediate instead of winding down (firing instead of reducing staff by attrition - which means training new hires sooner too, and programs stopped midway instead of finishing and replanned for the future, etc).

Everyone I know in the gov (im federal fyi), even the folks who support cuts steeper than the cliff and vote dem, say the abruptness and inability to control how they go down will be a mess.

Bear in mind many gov agencies have already been operating on budgets not guaranteed for the past year as it is.

Personally I am not high enough up to know exactly how things will be, and gov employees gossip as bad as restaurant employees, but I know enough about budgeting to know you don't haphazardly slash budgets. You do not pick ten percent of every leaf on a tree to cut, you prune the branches in an intelligent manner.
 
2012-12-21 01:19:08 AM  
There should be a sitcom titled 'Oh Boehner !'
 
2012-12-21 01:19:58 AM  

Modguy: Arcturus72: Why can't we herd all of the House and Senate back in there (yes, I know, herding cats) and chain lock the doors until they figure something workable out, while they're dropped down to minimum wages for a year?

Oh yeah, that's right... Because it's all Obama's fault...

We're completely farked, either way...

Welllll...Obama can. He has the right to call the Congress into a special session. It doesn't happen often, and it seems the last time it was done was in 1948 by Harry S. Truman. I imagine it isn't done is because it would likely piss off a lot of congress critters, at a time where every drop of political capital needs to be nurtured and spent wisely.


Better yet, Truman did it to the "Do-Nothing Congress."

/Which would make it a vicious backhand.
//Quit messing with the background, Drew. It takes forever to load.
 
2012-12-21 01:20:49 AM  

sonnyboy11: Gawdzila: Wow, the TP'ers and the rest of the Republicans must be incredibly stupid.
Now Obama, the Dems, and everyone else in the country knows that they're incapable of making even the smallest overtures at compromise, even after Obama made some very reasonable offers to meet in the middle. Either the Democrats will just find a few moderate Republicans (if such a thing exists) and barter for votes to get their plan passed ASAP and in the process probably get more of what they want than with Obama's last offer, or they will go over the cliff. At that point everyone will know that the Republicans are completely responsible for it, and the Dems will be able to negotiate from the standpoint of lowering taxes. Just watch how popular Republicans become if they try and stall tax cuts on everyone in the name of arguing for tax cuts on $250k+ earners.

Makes me believe the recent overtures from Obama to reach a solution were never much more than an exercise to help shore up the position of Democrats. Kind of a "hey- we tried to compromise!". There was little chance the Repubs were ever going to compromise. And they were so set in that course of action, now we can easily blame them for any negative outcome to all this. Dumb. Dumb dumb dumb.


Well since republicans are too stupid to call the bluff we will never know.

Or we could look at the last four years and see tha Obama isn't a socialist devil and has been willing to compromise in the past moreso than republicans....
 
2012-12-21 01:24:50 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: //Quit messing with the background, Drew. It takes forever to load.


I thought Fark had shiat itself.
 
2012-12-21 01:26:32 AM  

robodog: I'm starting to think that my coworkers decision to move his 401k into bonds and cash on December 1st wasn't so crazy. What does anyone figure, a 5% drop in the NYSE tomorrow?

/still think their monied overlords will put a gun to their political heads and tell them to make it happen


It's going to be bad. Check out the pre-market/futures on CNBC's website.Those are PRIOR to the start of the trading day.

/on phone, no linky
 
2012-12-21 01:28:03 AM  
So far, the only thing they Mayans have impacted is the load time of this page. Big image is a bad idea, Drew.
 
2012-12-21 01:28:46 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Modguy: Arcturus72: Why can't we herd all of the House and Senate back in there (yes, I know, herding cats) and chain lock the doors until they figure something workable out, while they're dropped down to minimum wages for a year?

Oh yeah, that's right... Because it's all Obama's fault...

We're completely farked, either way...

Welllll...Obama can. He has the right to call the Congress into a special session. It doesn't happen often, and it seems the last time it was done was in 1948 by Harry S. Truman. I imagine it isn't done is because it would likely piss off a lot of congress critters, at a time where every drop of political capital needs to be nurtured and spent wisely.

Better yet, Truman did it to the "Do-Nothing Congress."

/Which would make it a vicious backhand.
//Quit messing with the background, Drew. It takes forever to load.



From Wikipedia:
"The 80th Congress was nicknamed the "Do Nothing Congress" by President Harry Truman. The Congress opposed many of the bills passed during the Franklin Roosevelt administration. They also opposed most of Truman's Fair Deal bills. Yet they passed many pro-business bills. During the 1948 election Truman campaigned as much against the "Do Nothing Congress" as against his formal opponent, Thomas Dewey."

LOL, where have I heard that one before?
 
2012-12-21 01:32:23 AM  

sonnyboy11: Makes me believe the recent overtures from Obama to reach a solution were never much more than an exercise to help shore up the position of Democrats.


Maybe or maybe not. Obama is a couple steps ahead of the game, no doubt, but it also seems like he genuinely values bipartisanship to the point where he took flak for the number of compromises he made in his first term. I don't think he would have made an offer he wouldn't have signed. That said, the fact that Obama was willing to change his offer so much more than Boehner does give the Dems a lot more credibility when it comes to making efforts at compromise to avoid the cliff.
 
2012-12-21 01:32:32 AM  

Mentat: demaL-demaL-yeH: //Quit messing with the background, Drew. It takes forever to load.

I thought Fark had shiat itself.


Goddamned Mayans
 
2012-12-21 01:32:46 AM  

Mentat: I thought Fark had shiat itself.


Its all so brown....
 
2012-12-21 01:33:10 AM  
By the way, I continue to be frustrated at all of the people who WANT to go over the cliff. As was mentioned upthread, budgets are bloated, but they aren't random. These cuts will ripple out and you will feel the effects soon.

/asshats in the House GOP ruining my investments...
//farking asshats
 
2012-12-21 01:40:26 AM  

fatassbastard: COMALite J: No, he really is the worst.
Not just in incompetence, but also in sheer evil and willingness to corrupt the process without a hint of shame nor conscience.

Wow... is that video completely legit? Because if it is, man... what a load of bollocks.


Yes, it's legit. This is also why the Republican Party would do very well to never, ever, mention the word "Teleprompter" ever again.

Keep in mind what it shows that even Ben Swann didn't notice (or at least didn't comment on): Bœhner didn't show a hint of shame at what he did. He did it without a moment's hesitation.

Contrast this with the unfortunately much more well known similar situation with the DNC and their party platform vote on symbolic language referencing God and recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Same basic scenario (though without having to resort to kidnapping and false imprisonment of two whole States' worth of delegates as well as the leader of the opposition, and having earlier prevented the seating of a third State's delegates, all to stack the vote in the Party bosses' favor): they needed a two-thirds supermajority (note: that means that for each and every "Nay" vote, there must be a bare minimum of two "Aye" votes! More than that if it's a voice vote to get past the "absolutely no question" threshold), but the actual vote couldn't even be said to result in a clear simple majority by voice vote. Also, in both cases, the "results" were pre-scripted on the teleprompter.

If it was close to twice as loud for the "Ayes" but the chair couldn't tell if it was truly at least twice as numerous, the proper parliamentary procedure is to call for a show of hands or some other more accurate means of tabulating the vote (e.g. roll call). Neither Speaker Bœhner at the RNC nor Mayor Villiarosa at the DNC did this, yet the Mayor did at least show hesitation and unwillingness to falsify the vote. He called for a repeat of the voice vote three times, and was clearly torn because he knew that it couldn't even be said to be a clear simple majority, let alone a two-for-one (two-thirds) supermajority. Unfortunately, he finally knuckled under to the party bosses and read the script like a good boy. I'd've had a lot more respect for him had he stood his ground and done a role call or some such, or simply declared the obvious, that they did not have a two-thirds supermajority, and the motion to amend the platform did not carry. I still respect that he at least showed that he had a conscience, even if he squelched it in the end when it really counted.

Contrast Bœhner and the RNC. First off, while this was a Party rule and not a Platform change, in the grand scheme of things, this was a far more important vote. The DNC one was merely symbolic. This one has actual far-reaching ramifications from now on, as Swann pointed out.

But more importantly, the RNC bosses resorted to subtrefuge to prevent much of the opposition from participating in the vote, and even then they couldn't even muster a clear simple majority, let alone 2:1 (two-thirds) supermajority! Yet Bœhner didn't even hesitate. No calls for recounts from him! No, he just barreled on ahead, reading the pre-scripted results and pre-scripted (and false) claims of lack of objections, and passed the rule change that forever disenfranchises all grassroots movements from power in the GOP!

About the objections: when the vote is called, you can clearly hear shouts of "Objection!" and "Point of Order!" Yet, simultaneous with this, there erupted a seemingly spontaneous cry of "U.S.A.!! U.S.A.!!" that drowned out those shouts. Coincidence? No! We have actual testimony from delegates that they were previously instructed to shout "U.S.A.!!" right after the voice vote results were announced! It was not spontaneous!

Why would they be instructed to do that? Because under parliamentary procedure, if the Chair hears either of those things shouted from the floor by even one delegate, he must immediately suspend everything until the objection has been heard and resolved! The shouts of "U.S.A.!!"gave Bœhner probable cause to claim that he heard those objections!

In short, what we see here is the Speaker of the U.S. Congress House of Representatives, arguably the most powerful directly elected person in the entire nation, pervert the parliamentary procedure process for a major rule change vote. He did that to his own Party's delegates!

This brings up a vital question: if he's willing to do that at his own Party's convention without a moment's hesitation nor even a twinge of shame, how can we be sure that he would never do, or even has never done, likewise in Congress!? Have bills been passed to the Senate or even to the President for signature that the majority voted against? Have bills been prevented from passage that the majority voted for!? Only he knows for sure, but now we have powerful reason to suspect that this may well be the case.
 
2012-12-21 01:48:57 AM  

Mentat: Corvus: Mentat: Watching Eric Cantor run away from the press tonight would be hilarious if the consequences weren't so great. You never want to say never in politics, but it sure feels like the GOP screwed themselves tonight. If I were Obama, I would make another offer to Boehner (by choice, not because he's forced to) and see if they can get enough votes to push something through. Otherwise, cut Boehner out and see if Obama can get the votes himself.

I think it will help a deal to be reached actually. It will force Boehner to compromise because he MUST have Dem votes to pass any bill in the house.

Democrats believe they can pass a bill in the house ALREADY, but Boehner won't let it come up for a vote. They think they could get it passed now already so you point doesn't make sense.

I'm not sure where we're in disagreement.


A) h doesn't have to make a new offer. They are pretty sure the current offer can pass.
B) Bohner is not letting it come up for a vote. He controls what can be voted on, and even if something can pass he can make it so it doesn't get a vote. There is no " cut Boehner out " because he controls the votes.

In past times Speakers of the house would let votes on bills they didn't like but thought they could pass but not this congress.
 
2012-12-21 01:49:12 AM  
Technically the House has passed a plan.  Any chance of Reid combining it with the Senate bill that has passed, and using reconciliation to essentially force the House to accept the Senate plan?
 
2012-12-21 01:52:29 AM  

sonnyboy11: Why would cuts in defense spending be a bad thing? I think too much is spent on defense already and am all in favor of cuts in that area. Where is the negative component?


Well if you pull 50 billion out of spending it comes out of the economy, it comes out of someone's pockets. You don't get that?

Not saying I am against it but that's the way it goes.
 
2012-12-21 01:53:07 AM  

quickdraw: Mentat: I thought Fark had shiat itself.

Its all so brown....


All the Fark is brown
on the Earth's last day
I just tried to post
And the lag said nay
 
2012-12-21 01:57:25 AM  

Corvus: A) h doesn't have to make a new offer. They are pretty sure the current offer can pass.
B) Bohner is not letting it come up for a vote. He controls what can be voted on, and even if something can pass he can make it so it doesn't get a vote. There is no " cut Boehner out " because he controls the votes.


I didn't say Obama has to work with Boehner, I said that he can if he wants to continue promoting an imagine of bipartisanship.  The point is that he has the choice now.  And Pelosi still has the option of a discharge petition if they could get enough GOP defectors.  Granted, it's not likely to happen, but what do the Democrats have to lose at this point?  If nothing else, it's one more "we tried to compromise" event.
 
2012-12-21 01:58:15 AM  

Mentat: quickdraw: Mentat: I thought Fark had shiat itself.

Its all so brown....

All the Fark is brown
on the Earth's last day
I just tried to post
And the lag said nay


lol
 
2012-12-21 01:59:50 AM  

FishyFred: robodog: I'm starting to think that my coworkers decision to move his 401k into bonds and cash on December 1st wasn't so crazy. What does anyone figure, a 5% drop in the NYSE tomorrow?

/still think their monied overlords will put a gun to their political heads and tell them to make it happen

It's going to be bad. Check out the pre-market/futures on CNBC's website.Those are PRIOR to the start of the trading day.

/on phone, no linky


Linky.

S&P's at -20, and DJIA only -170 instead of the -200 it was earlier tonight, so it looks like we open roughly where we opened this Monday.

Unless the Speaker discreetly told everyone to get short ahead of a thinly-traded holiday week, he has some explaining to do. Judging from the surge in the last few minutes of trading today, it doesn't look like he told anyone. He needs to gain control of his caucus or he needs to be replaced by someone who can. He may not be answerable to the taxpayers or the RNC, but he should be answerable to the Street.
 
2012-12-21 02:01:57 AM  

quizzical: So far, the only thing they Mayans have impacted is the load time of this page. Big image is a bad idea, Drew.


and somebody has to be 'that guy', (i think it's just my turn) but isn't the thingee taking forever to load aztec, not mayan?
 
2012-12-21 02:02:25 AM  
Where, I wonder, are all the fark independents (real and trademarked) who spent the last year pointing out that Obama is bad not because of bad ideas, but because he couldn't force the republicans to work with him through the magic of the bully pulpit?

Will they show up in any of these threads to explain how Obama is supposed to compromise with republicans who can't even pass their own bill?
 
2012-12-21 02:08:57 AM  
Amazing. I really am enjoying watching Fartbongo push the repubs off the cliff.
 
2012-12-21 02:11:54 AM  

heap: quizzical: So far, the only thing they Mayans have impacted is the load time of this page. Big image is a bad idea, Drew.

and somebody has to be 'that guy', (i think it's just my turn) but isn't the thingee taking forever to load aztec, not mayan?


My Central American contacts say it is Aztec.
 
2012-12-21 02:12:03 AM  

Mentat: Corvus: A) h doesn't have to make a new offer. They are pretty sure the current offer can pass.
B) Bohner is not letting it come up for a vote. He controls what can be voted on, and even if something can pass he can make it so it doesn't get a vote. There is no " cut Boehner out " because he controls the votes.

I didn't say Obama has to work with Boehner, I said that he can if he wants to continue promoting an imagine of bipartisanship.  The point is that he has the choice now.  And Pelosi still has the option of a discharge petition if they could get enough GOP defectors.  Granted, it's not likely to happen, but what do the Democrats have to lose at this point?  If nothing else, it's one more "we tried to compromise" event.


The Senate has already passed a bill. They are not letting a vote on it in the house because they are afraid it is going to pass. So I don't see why there needs to be some new bill because it would be the same thing.

Bohener is saying "Obama and the Senate has done nothing" but the reality is if the House approved the Bill that the senate already passed it would be over. Making a new bill has nothing to do with it, and cutting Boehner is impracticable because basically they have already tried and can't get a vote.
 
2012-12-21 02:12:36 AM  

sugardave: foreman3: DarkSkyForever: Now... just stay with me here... now why can't we just let tax rates rise back to Clinton levels?

Or, why not just go back to Clinton Spending Levels?

HOW ABOUT BOTH?! For fark's sake....


In less than 250 posts of discussion (some of them just pictures) Fark has been able to come up with a solution that has evaded politicians for years.

/Well done Farkers!
//Fark you politicians!
 
2012-12-21 02:18:00 AM  
I will not be surprised if Boehner isn't rellected speaker of the house. The man is an absolute joke. The tea party nuts have crippled congress.
 
2012-12-21 02:21:43 AM  
remember when the GOP were so cocky about setting this whole thing up, because they knew, KNEW they would retake the white house and the senate? remember when the scoffed at those silly libs who chose to believe math, while the GOP knew, KNEW that the numbers where really on their side? Then the way those teaparty candidates said what they actually meant about things like rape, and how romney laid out what they really think about "the 47%"?

and here we are. sitting and staring at the house of cards the GOP has built, and watching the dawning realization come across their faces as the reality of the situation starts to sink in. They bought their own bullshiat, and now they can't give it back.
 
2012-12-21 02:26:22 AM  

midpoint:
My Central American contacts say it is Aztec.


then it makes perfect sense by not making sense.

log_jammin: remember when the GOP were so cocky about setting this whole thing up, because they knew, KNEW they would retake the white house and the senate? remember when the scoffed at those silly libs who chose to believe math, while the GOP knew, KNEW that the numbers where really on their side? Then the way those teaparty candidates said what they actually meant about things like rape, and how romney laid out what they really think about "the 47%"?

and here we are. sitting and staring at the house of cards the GOP has built, and watching the dawning realization come across their faces as the reality of the situation starts to sink in. They bought their own bullshiat, and now they can't give it back.


i'm not sure how, but on more than one occasion i've heard people complaining about Obama having engineered the fiscal cliff situation.

don't worry, reality won't sink in - why would it, when you can just retcon it into something more convenient.
 
2012-12-21 02:40:11 AM  

heap: don't worry, reality won't sink in - why would it, when you can just retcon it into something more convenient.


I meant for the party "leadership". the rank and file will still chant and yell about whatever they are told to, and the tea bagger congressmen will throw tantrums about how the rich should not have a one cent tax increase.

But I think the leadership is starting to see their monster has turned against them and has them backed into a corner. They of course wont ever admit to that, but we know they know. and it amuses the hell out of me.
 
2012-12-21 02:40:26 AM  
Electing Republicans in 2012... not since Waterworld has so much money been invested in this magnitude of failure

i208.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-21 02:40:38 AM  
Yay, 0.5% GDP growth in 2012, here we come!

Could have been 3%, but you know, we gotta be all austere like England because that's working great for them.
 
2012-12-21 02:44:54 AM  

Mentat: And in case anyone thinks I'm taking joy in this, going over the cliff will probably fark me, as in "Holy shiat I'm middle aged and have to change careers".  But if that's what it takes to restore sanity to the government and the GOP and to break the power of the Tea Party, maybe that's what we have to do.


Meh. I've been in that mode since 2008, when my well-paying job evaporated...

I still have some assets in the bank, my car is in good running condition, and I've really cut back on buying stuff that I don't need. I'll be OK...
 
2012-12-21 02:51:30 AM  
How can boner possibly not resign at this point? I don't get why/how he hangs on.
 
2012-12-21 02:52:19 AM  
I can't wait until we go off the cliff like thelma and louise. immediately afterward, obama can give tax cuts to the middle class, and republicans will be powerless to stop him (because they can't vote against a tax cut for their constituency).

excited!
 
2012-12-21 03:09:50 AM  

log_jammin: But I think the leadership is starting to see their monster has turned against them and has them backed into a corner. They of course wont ever admit to that, but we know they know. and it amuses the hell out of me.


it's been a tiger-by-the-tail situation for awhile now, but i'm left wondering just how long leadership in the GOP will remain....leadership in the GOP.

the lack of anyone else more able to make legislative sausage with the coalition-of-the-spiteful is about his only saving grace at this point.
 
2012-12-21 03:13:30 AM  
Sequestration will lead to the unemployment of many of my coworkers. The cuts are not targeted at inefficiencies, they are across the board, meaning they are sloppy and cause carnage.
 
2012-12-21 03:15:26 AM  
I haven't seen a Boehner this sad since my wedding night. BA-DA-BING!
 
2012-12-21 03:18:34 AM  

Rann Xerox: Darth_Lukecash: Worse. Speaker. Of. The. House. Ever.
This man is bad at his job.

Boehner is a little better as Speaker of the House than this guy was:
[upload.wikimedia.org image 520x600]
Theodore_M._Pomeroy


How do you figure? Pomeroy didn't do anything. I wish we were so lucky with Boehner.
 
2012-12-21 03:19:56 AM  

heap: it's been a tiger-by-the-tail situation for awhile now, but i'm left wondering just how long leadership in the GOP will remain....leadership in the GOP.

the lack of anyone else more able to make legislative sausage with the coalition-of-the-spiteful is about his only saving grace at this point.


I don't know man. This is uncharted waters for my little brain. I haven't the foggiest how this all plays out, for the budget or the GOP.
 
2012-12-21 03:22:39 AM  

foreman3: DarkSkyForever: Now... just stay with me here... now why can't we just let tax rates rise back to Clinton levels?

Or, why not just go back to Clinton Spending Levels?


Stop throwing logical stuff like that out there.

Raising taxes will not generate more tax revenue for the government. History has shown higher taxes have caused people to hide their money in tax shelters, invest overseas, and not invest much here. That equals low tax revenue for the government and makes that pie much smaller for the morons in DC to redistribute money. Keep taxes low and stop spending so damn much.

/mmm pie
 
2012-12-21 03:30:56 AM  

ShawnDoc: Technically the House has passed a plan. Any chance of Reid combining it with the Senate bill that has passed, and using reconciliation to essentially force the House to accept the Senate plan?


The House would have to re-pass any changed bill. There's no way the existing House bill is getting through the Senate with a lot of revisions, let alone getting signed by the President. IIRC, the main advantage of budge reconciliation is that it only requires a simple majority of the Senate.

The real answer is that we're almost certainly going over the cliff. I've believed that since the election. I never for a minute though Boehner had the votes to pass anything. Tonight's vote just proved the truth of this.

The reason we're going over the cliff is because there aren't anywhere near enough Republicans in the House who will vote for a tax increase - even an increase of just a few points - even if it's only on the wealthiest 1%. They'd rather have the taxes rise automatically in order to give them political cover, even though their refusal may result in a TREMENDOUS cost to the nation's economy. It's a rather small bit of political cover versus the cliff, they've clearly chosen the cliff.

A large majority of House Republicans have just proven themselves to be the opposite of patriots. For the sake of some political cover, they've purposefully decided to severely damage the financial health of the nation. Cowards to a man.
 
2012-12-21 03:31:10 AM  
It's a lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing, except the death of the GOP.  Which is something, I guess.
 
2012-12-21 03:36:56 AM  

Shrinkwrap: Sequestration will lead to the unemployment of many of my coworkers. The cuts are not targeted at inefficiencies, they are across the board, meaning they are sloppy and cause carnage.


Republicans don't see the difference.

Keep in mind that I am not a Democrat.
 
2012-12-21 03:41:15 AM  

MaliFinn: Electing Republicans in 2012... not since Waterworld has so much money been invested in this magnitude of failure

[i208.photobucket.com image 750x600]


No, everyone in both parties owns this charles foxtrot. The Dems are being just as inflexible and stupid. Now everybody gets to eat a shiat sandwich and like it.

/you as a people who elected this collection of grabass you see in the White House and in Congress are getting exactly the government you deserve
 
2012-12-21 03:49:26 AM  
Has anyone noticed that his name, Boehner, is almost like Boner? HAHAHAHA!!

OMG! Some comedian is gonna make a ton of money when that put that in their act. HAHAHA!
 
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