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(WOODTV Grand Rapids)   "Guns are not the problem...mental illness is the problem," says mom who keeps a gun because she lives in fear for her life from her mentally ill son   (woodtv.com) divider line 194
    More: Obvious, mental health professional, mom, guns  
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6468 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Dec 2012 at 7:52 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-20 11:49:01 PM

Azlefty: Rant On!

ENOUGH!  I AM TIRED OF THE SCREAMING FROM BOTH SIDES!
I am sick of the Right Screaming it is because we have taken God out of the Schools and Society, BS! If you are a true Christian you know where you faith is and resides and no it isn't having your snowflake say a prayer over the School PA system to show how "godly" they are.  Nor is it in insisting that YOUR FAITH be plastered all over the public square!  A very good friend of mine who is a Pastor told me, "If you have to tell people or make a spectacle to show them you are a Christian you are doing it wrong."
I am sick of the left blaming guns, a gun is inanimate object it is not good or evil, it does nothing until it is in the hands of a human. It is we humans that are the problem.
Now if you really give a damn about what happened then let's have a real discussion about this without the political posturing that has been going on
Let's start by looking at some facts about firearms
The Weapon types used have been around for over 100 years
The first semi auto "assault rifle" was the 1903 Mondragón Mexican battle rifle
The First magazine fed semi auto rifle was made by Winchester in 1905 , followed by  the  commercially successful Remington model 8 in 1906
The First Semi auto pistol was the c-93 Borchardt of 1893
The most popular semi auto pistol type is based on the 1911 Colt .45 ACP of -you guessed it- 1911
The first Hi Capacity magazine pistol was the Browning Hi Power of 1935
The "AR" type of Rifles such as the Bushmaster was introduced in 1963
In WW 1 the Axis powers used Machine Pistols and sub machine guns
In WW 2 Paratroopers were equipped with semi auto, collapsible stock hi capacity magazine fed M1 Carbines that also has a "pistol grip"
All of these weapons or variations of them were and are available on the Civilian Market for purchase, even the notorious "Chicago typewriter" the Thompson has been available in the semi auto version since before the 1934 gun control act that regulated the selec ...


This is one of the best posts I've ever seen.

/seriously.
//favorited.
 
2012-12-21 12:09:41 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Balchinian: Mental health is and always has been the only issue.

You and your fellow gun-fanciers can keep on chanting that while the rest of us craft and pass more restrictive legislation.


Based on what, emotion?? Sorry, but all the verifiable data indicates that stricter gun laws don't decrease crime, that prohibition only drives the otherwise legitimate use of whatever is prohibited underground where it can not be controlled or even monitored, and that (as I already stated) gun type, availability, and legislation have no causal connection to mass murder while mental illness does have it in every single case.

Laws in this country need to be based on legitimate data, not emotion, and not how righteous it makes those who propose a law look and feel. We are not running a damn daisy farm here, this is a civilization. Reason and rationality must prevail over emotion or we might as well disband now. It is hard, especially when things like this involve freaking 5 and 6 year olds, but we can not afford as a country to be ruled by emotions. If you can not set yours aside and examine the facts objectively, at least have the courtesy to step aside and let those who can take care of it. Dragging your bleeding heart all over the place is doing more harm than good.
 
2012-12-21 12:12:09 AM
I am quite sure that if we still had state-run mental hospitals, this kid would have been in one. But those cost money, and conservatives are against that, so I'm sure they'll ban guns instead of bringing those back.
 
2012-12-21 12:15:29 AM

Balchinian: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Balchinian: Mental health is and always has been the only issue.

You and your fellow gun-fanciers can keep on chanting that while the rest of us craft and pass more restrictive legislation.

Based on what, emotion?? Sorry, but all the verifiable data indicates that stricter gun laws don't decrease crime, that prohibition only drives the otherwise legitimate use of whatever is prohibited underground where it can not be controlled or even monitored, and that (as I already stated) gun type, availability, and legislation have no causal connection to mass murder while mental illness does have it in every single case.

Laws in this country need to be based on legitimate data, not emotion, and not how righteous it makes those who propose a law look and feel. We are not running a damn daisy farm here, this is a civilization. Reason and rationality must prevail over emotion or we might as well disband now. It is hard, especially when things like this involve freaking 5 and 6 year olds, but we can not afford as a country to be ruled by emotions. If you can not set yours aside and examine the facts objectively, at least have the courtesy to step aside and let those who can take care of it. Dragging your bleeding heart all over the place is doing more harm than good.


pysih.com
 
2012-12-21 12:19:06 AM

JWideman: I am quite sure that if we still had state-run mental hospitals, this kid would have been in one. But those cost money, and conservatives are against that, so I'm sure they'll ban guns instead of bringing those back.


Who gives the politician more money? Gun lobbying groups or generic rich people who want tax cuts?
 
2012-12-21 12:49:58 AM

Belias: Left out the part where they're in a safe. If the 13 year old is intent upon killing them, I expect cracking the safe would not be the path of least resistance.


Which is absolutely ironic and totally defeats her entire argument of having a gun for 'protection' against her 13 yr old psychopath son.
Someone like her is a 1000% better off NOT having a gun at all period.
 
2012-12-21 12:59:24 AM

LDM90: Jesus, can we stop acting like it's one or the other? Can't the problem be guns AND crazy people?


It absolutely is but since it's more practical/effective to ban guns than it is to kill or lock up 'crazies' (assuming we can identify them to begin with) we have to choose the former despite the political firestorm and potential constitutional constraints.

Or we can do nothing and corporately accept that incidents like Newtown be a part of our modern society. It really is as simple as that if you really think about it.
 
2012-12-21 01:03:19 AM
Somaticasual:And, that assault weapon in the newtown shooting? It was locked in his car, un-used. He shot people with something no reasonable gun law would have prevented.

He shot the kids with the AR15, one as many as 11 times, It was not locked in the trunk of his car.
 
2012-12-21 01:24:16 AM

syrynxx: What do you do with a child like that?  Do nothing until he snaps and kills someone?


Maybe he needs to release all that pent up aggression. Get him laid!
 
2012-12-21 01:56:43 AM
He said he has guns but keeps them locked in a safe where his son cannot get them.

He's signed his own death warrant.  They are stuck in some delusion if they believe that their kids won't ever go rifling through their things and find the key to that safe.
 
2012-12-21 01:58:54 AM
Somaticasual:
The worst school "shooting" happened in the 1920s, and it was a maniac who blew up a school using a bomb. And, that assault weapon in the newtown shooting? It was locked in his car, un-used. He shot people with something no reasonable gun law would have prevented.

Don't write when you've given up all your freedoms in the name of temporary safety.

hmm last time I check bombs are banned in this country so not sure what your point is....
also you might want to get your news other than from FOX.

That mofo killed all the children WITH the AR-15!!! It was definitiely not locked and unused!
 
2012-12-21 02:07:26 AM
It's amazing how fast threads devolve into arguments over gunz and which was the first school shooting and who is ultimately liable for the deaths...

when the discussion was mental illness and how we can treat it.

It's been like this since, well, forever. The minute we try to discuss in any kind of rational way how we can PREVENT mass shootings from happening in the first place, and why they happen, the argument almost immediately veers onto tangents about how we've always had gunz and how gunz should always be locked up and how gun lawz won't help and etc. etc. etc.

So here's a different question: Is it that talking about mental illness is just too scary for people and you'd rather pretend it doesn't exist; or is it that you don't want to correct the problem because it might come a little too close to home?
 
2012-12-21 02:12:06 AM

Gyrfalcon: Is it that talking about mental illness is just too scary for people and you'd rather pretend it doesn't exist; or is it that you don't want to correct the problem because it might come a little too close to home?


I suspect it's more the fact that ANOTHER mother with a troubled son thinks it's just fine to keep guns in her house.
 
2012-12-21 02:21:14 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Gyrfalcon: Is it that talking about mental illness is just too scary for people and you'd rather pretend it doesn't exist; or is it that you don't want to correct the problem because it might come a little too close to home?

I suspect it's more the fact that ANOTHER mother with a troubled son thinks it's just fine to keep guns in her house.


So why do we need to talk about how the first school massacre was done in 1920 with a bomb? What's that got to do with anything going on today? I've seen that twice on this thread, and it just proves my point that what nobody wants to talk about is how prevalent mental illness is and how we need to start doing something about it.

No. Let's talk about gunz. We can argue about gunz! But talking about mental illness might get too real, and that would be bad, and worse, might even be ME.
 
2012-12-21 02:24:42 AM
<b>(Sigh!!)</b>

Many of you know me for my rants, especially those concerning the Mental health System, which President Reagan slashed brutally under the excuse that the big State hospitals were no longer needed. We all knew he and congress did it to save billions during the economic crisis.

Without regard to the repercussions.

<i>See my last post on the subject:http://www.fark.com/comments/7488394/I-live-with-a-son-who-is -mentally -ill-I-love-my-son-But-he-terrifies-me</i>;

I worked in the mental health system and prior to that, in the medical field. I took college courses in both nursing and psychiatry.

Just as we were making <b>HUGE</b> strides in Mental Health, developing new treatments, dumping barbaric old ones, cutting the Patient's Bill Of Rights, educating the public to get past the 'Horror Hill' stigma Hollywood had created over mental illness and were getting folks to come in for treatment BEFORE their illnesses got too bad -- Congress slashed the budget
.
It has never recovered though other budgets for various program slashed then also have been fully re-funded. Since at least 1997, the mental health system has repeatedly had it's budget slashed, partially restored, then slashed again.

It's set us back nearly 100 years. Now, you get the best care only if you have the bucks. Before, we did it on a sliding scale. A lot of the homeless dumped from the state institutions never got better and actually got sicker causing much more problems
.
In the long run, the decision to close the state institutions and slash the cost us billions more than it saved. It still does and the amount is increasing as the mentally ill, especially among the homeless, get thrown in jail, given little to no treatment and then thrown out, with no backup plan, to go crazy again and wreck havoc among you, the citizens through theft, property damage, crimes and medical costs.

Now, Society has changed in the short time I've been alive. We've made huge technological strides comparable only to the other period of explosive advances: the Victorian Age. Actually, we've gone even faster and further.
Since I was born, our global population has tripled. With new technology comes new abuses -- such as the 'disposable years' which nearly covered our planet with trash. Companies pushed cars on the public until the highways snaked all over our country and became packed with traffic. That caused massive pollution. That also drained the finite fossil fuel reserves as we gobbled them down as if they would never run dry.

The internet opened the borders of nations many of us would only read about and now we can communicate nearly directly with people all over the globe or use street view Google Maps to seem like we're standing right there.

It also opened the door for abuse: from far too much information -- like how to build bombs, to hackers and pervs, the Lunatic Fringe, spammers and runaway advertising, information stealing and scams by the ton. The media seeks sensationalism for ratings, exaggerating stories and slanting them in various angles and we're hammered steadily with often conflicting and confusing information.

Our leaders slap together equally confusing and poorly thought out laws, lawyers find new ways to twist the truth and sue the krap out of everyone for everything, what was good is now bad and what was bad has an excuse. Loyalty is no longer treasured and a person is no longer treated like a valued being.

Everything seems to cause cancer. Leaving your house can get you killed, molested, poisoned, arrested or injured. Previously honorable businesses now find a hundred ways to skin you out of your cash while they invest in crude oil for profit, which in turn keeps gas prices high, which screws you over as expenses soar and the rich get massively richer.

TV shows how the history books lied, challenge and investigate religion, destroy our heroes, destroy our traditions and the difference between good and bad begins to blur.

Everyone has rights -- even if those rights infringe on your rights. Kids acting like kids can be expelled, tossed in jail and branded a sexual offender for life
.
Now is when we need a fully functional, actively developing Mental Health Care System. We need to once again make it easy for people to get help without going bankrupt. Hammered by confusing and conflicting social morals, laws and actions with every nutcase pointing out how deadly everything is and the economy stressing the public -- people are going to crack.

Reaganonomics wiped out the major progress we had in helping people back from the edge. Congress throws money at special interest groups and corrupt bills, but ignores the Mental Health System.

Anyone in my fields, with half a brain and an understanding of society would have seen this coming. Especially those who are supposed to guide us towards our future, who we elect to keep us safe and to use wisdom we don't have.

You don't turn a couple of hundred thousand mentally ill people loose without a support system, especially if many have been institutionalized for decades and <b>not</b> see the potential problems there and in the near future.
We can't reclaim most of the old institutions. They were left to rot and be vandalized. (GIS abandoned mental institutions.) The cost to restore them would be huge. We can establish limited care clinics and the new programs we were building in the middle 70's.

Then, we can rebuild the major institutions.

Society has changed several times since I was a kid. From trusting and healthy to suspicious, greedy and fat. Greed is rewarded.

It's time you all took a stand.

I still recall the first mass murderer in the bell tower of a college. That shocked the nation. It also helped bring reform to the Mental Health System.

So, how many more will die as you all sit about twiddling your thumbs? Not just in school shootings, but under bridges from neglect, getting killed over a scrap of food or hearing voices telling them to do bad things.

We seem to have a Pedophile problem. To handle it we now ruin their lives forever, even if innocent, cast them onto the outskirts of society so they can barely live, treat them like dirt or the lowest form of scum and create laws which can get our kids branded as sex offenders.

Prior to this, pedophiles left their victims alive most of the time. After the tar and feather mentality spread, the majority started killing them to try and not get caught because of the consequences.

So clamping down so strictly was a good idea? Maybe trying to understand the drive that makes a pedophile do what they do, risking everything should be studied and, maybe a cure found.

Instead, we're ruining innocent lives and getting a lot of kids killed who, years back, would have survived, traumatized, but alive.

We once had about the best Mental Health System in the world. Now we're like number 20.

<b><u>Do something about it!</u></b>
 
2012-12-21 02:25:32 AM

Gyrfalcon: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Gyrfalcon: Is it that talking about mental illness is just too scary for people and you'd rather pretend it doesn't exist; or is it that you don't want to correct the problem because it might come a little too close to home?

I suspect it's more the fact that ANOTHER mother with a troubled son thinks it's just fine to keep guns in her house.

So why do we need to talk about how the first school massacre was done in 1920 with a bomb? What's that got to do with anything going on today? I've seen that twice on this thread, and it just proves my point that what nobody wants to talk about is how prevalent mental illness is and how we need to start doing something about it.

No. Let's talk about gunz. We can argue about gunz! But talking about mental illness might get too real, and that would be bad, and worse, might even be ME.


Actually, I don't think that's it. I actually think it's that most people DO recognize that mental illness very rarely leads to violent psychotic episodes and that the vast majority of people with a mental illness are more likely to be harmed themselves than to cause harm to others.
 
2012-12-21 02:33:18 AM
Oh, and for what it's worth, I totally agree with Rik01's assessments on the mental health care system. I just don't necessarily agree with how that's been forced into the narrative on the Sandy Hook shooting. We still know very little about the killer, his history, and the events leading up to the shooting. This happened with Columbine- the media forced a narrative so we could learn a lesson from it, and it turned out to be a completely and totally false narrative- the bullying stories, even the idea that the two shooters were equal partners.

I'm very, very wary of seeing that happen again- of having people decide what the lesson should be before we know the story. And I'm VERY uncomfortable with seeing this shooting used as a reason why it should be easier to involuntarily commit people.... the potential for abuse and civil rights violations is so, so high when it comes to involuntary commitment. There's a good reason why it's so difficult to do.
 
2012-12-21 03:10:31 AM
sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-12-21 03:47:27 AM
Umm we all fail to notice the mum had a stipend of $200k upwards a year from her CEO ex husband. She could afford mental health care.
 
2012-12-21 04:15:34 AM
Liberals already believe anyone who owns a gun, wants to own a gun or supports gun ownership is mentally ill, so it's kind of hard to have any sort of meaningful discussion about the role of mental illness on gun violence. To them possessing a firearm makes you a loon automatically.
 
2012-12-21 04:27:46 AM

CygnusDarius: pxlboy: CygnusDarius: Maybe, just maybe, if Americans stop glorifying guns, and death, and combat, and the army, and focused more on the well-being of nation (both in body and in mind), it would be great.

Movies and video games are not the cause, they are the by-product of a recent embellishment of Death, while forsaking health.

Healthcare for the masses is bad, but killing brown people is good.

Sadly, this. Also, I can understand getting a handgun to protect yourself and those around you, I can understand getting a hunting rifle and a shotgun to hunt, but why the hell do you need an m-15, or hollow-points (ok, maybe this one might work against large game, like hogs)?.

And, by the same token, why the US keeps cutting funds on mental health?.


Well how about we talk about reality for a moment. The 2nd amendment is an interesting little beast. It guarantees the right of individuals to KEEP and BEAR (own and use) arms. It does so for the purpose of allowing the state/federal government/locality to form a well regulated militia. One does not exclude the other but they are meant to go together. It mentions nothing about hunting, or home defense, but one can reasonably say that those things would be a side benefit of being able to keep and bear said arms.

The benefit of the state to having individuals keep and bear them...is that the state doesn't have the burden of providing its citizen soldiers with basic infantry (and cavalry) weapons. It is never really defined what "well regulated" entails, but one would assume a command structure, method of communication, regular training and other normal activities. The reason for this decentralized structure was due to the slow speed of communications at the time of the founding and allowed for a rapid formation of a fighting force in the local area.

So the idea is that you have the right to keep and bear these arms as an individual with the idea in mind that if war breaks out you would sign right up and participate to the best of your abilities. Not that you are REQUIRED to be in a militia. Also it would indicate that since muskets were the major infantry weapon of the ages in the west (WMD of the day if you will), that any and all rifles today would fall under those same guidelines.

So any idiot who says, "you don't need that for hunting!" is an idiot. The same or similar idiot might say "You don't need that for home defense/protecting yourself!"

They are correct but still wrong because neither of those arguments are made by the constitution itself. If they can state that "You don't need that to kill the enemies of the United States." then uhhh ok...try making that argument.

"But Mr. Boedy you don't own a TANK DO YOU?!?"

No you moron I can't afford one, nor the maintenance, nor the fuel and ammunition. Most individuals of the day couldn't afford a cannon either and so didn't own one. They didn't have the horses or carts to transport them nor the amount of gunpowder or ammunition. So logistically speaking it is simply impractical rather than illegal. I'm fine with that. It is practical however to own an assault rifle. Cheap ammunition, field stripping and cleaning is easy, and storage is obtainable by anyone who can afford that kind of weapon anyhow.

And yes you should background check the hell out of anyone trying to buy these, multiple letters of character, licensing, training and all that are fine as an owner of any weapon should be a responsible owner. Due process is a thing that most people forget about and the background check/licensing and training process should be considered part of the legal manner in which you obtain a weapon within your rights.

All rights are subject to due process by the way. The right to vote and own firearms can be taken away...via due process but not without. Just remember this kiddies.
 
2012-12-21 04:28:35 AM

Moonlightfox: Liberals already believe anyone who owns a gun, wants to own a gun or supports gun ownership is mentally ill, so it's kind of hard to have any sort of meaningful discussion about the role of mental illness on gun violence. To them possessing a firearm makes you a loon automatically.


irl i'm a liberal having a conversation with a sane gun owner right now.
 
2012-12-21 04:35:19 AM

TDBoedy: So any idiot who says, "you don't need that for hunting!" is an idiot. The same or similar idiot might say "You don't need that for home defense/protecting yourself!"


I think most of us understand that what you need those for is shooting American soldiers.
 
2012-12-21 05:15:43 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: TDBoedy: So any idiot who says, "you don't need that for hunting!" is an idiot. The same or similar idiot might say "You don't need that for home defense/protecting yourself!"

I think most of us understand that what you need those for is shooting American soldiers.


you're a terrible troll
1/10
 
2012-12-21 06:34:24 AM

TDBoedy: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: TDBoedy: So any idiot who says, "you don't need that for hunting!" is an idiot. The same or similar idiot might say "You don't need that for home defense/protecting yourself!"

I think most of us understand that what you need those for is shooting American soldiers.

you're a terrible troll
1/10


My bad. I should've said, "for defense from tyranny."
 
2012-12-21 06:46:24 AM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: TDBoedy: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: TDBoedy: So any idiot who says, "you don't need that for hunting!" is an idiot. The same or similar idiot might say "You don't need that for home defense/protecting yourself!"

I think most of us understand that what you need those for is shooting American soldiers.

you're a terrible troll
1/10

My bad. I should've said, "for defense from tyranny."


Or home defense.
Most guns sold are for self protection.

/not that you aren't trolling.
 
2012-12-21 08:08:18 AM
Newsflash: Baseline primate behavior isn't rational.
 
2012-12-21 09:05:37 AM

pxlboy: Oh, look...another gun control thread.

/bails


we should ban gun control threads
 
2012-12-21 09:20:29 AM
Huggermugger

Perhaps too late but there are some language issues in your post, which is common. You use the words broken and function when talking about mental illness. People with mental illness are not broken, they are sick, and while functioning is noble it is not everything to life. Maybe these are merely figures of speech, but they still communicate a meaning. Sick people need care, not fixing.
 
2012-12-21 09:45:28 AM
How would they know if the mental care needs fixing? Their child is not committed to a mental hospital, ergo they have not used the mental care that is available.

The level of stupid in these people is astounding. If you have to buy a gun in case you have to shoot your kid, TAKE HIM TO THE farkING LOONY BIN MORON.
 
2012-12-21 09:46:13 AM

syrynxx: What do you do with a child like that?  Do nothing until he snaps and kills someone?


You use the mental care facilities available. Commit him to a mental hospital. Parents are too stupid to figure that out I guess.
 
2012-12-21 09:47:24 AM

Waxing_Chewbacca: Hope she's a responsible gun owner and hide's it somewhere smart like the flour bowl or in plain site.


Hopefully she knows how to spell sight correctly.

/derp
 
2012-12-21 09:49:32 AM

Genevieve Marie: This new trend of parents going on the record and exposing the confidential and highly sensitive medical information of their minor children does not sit well with me at all.


The new trend of parents going on record saying they know their kid is retarded batshiat crazy and are doing nothing about it does not sit well with me at all.

Why haven't they taken the kid to the loony bin? They obviously know nothing about current health care for wackjobs because they haven't bothered to use it.
 
2012-12-21 09:51:38 AM

shower_in_my_socks: There have always been crazy people, and there will always be crazy people. There is no simple solution to improve mental healthcare. The real problem here is "crazy got a gun."


The problem is that crazy isn't in a high security mental facility receiving routine electroshock anymore.
 
2012-12-21 09:52:39 AM

spamdog: Genevieve Marie: This new trend of parents going on the record and exposing the confidential and highly sensitive medical information of their minor children does not sit well with me at all.

Maybe people should actually talk about mental illness publicly instead of pretending it doesn't exist and treating it like a leper colony.


Huh? Do you even know what a leper colony is? If we separated all the crazy people from the population (which is what a leper colony is) then we would have zero problems with mental illness.
 
2012-12-21 10:39:03 AM

The One True TheDavid:
If I'd ever made my parents afraid for their lives, instead of just being "ungovernable" and "emotionally disturbed," they'd have had the State lock me up till I turned 18. Who needs insurance? Let the taxpayers foot the bill.

Has the world changed so much since then.


I have a cousin who was an unruly child. He was in and out of juvenile facilities as a teen and he is in prison today. His parents were strict and abusive to him and his sister. She turned out well but he did not. Seeing how things went with my extended family, I would just like to know how much of this kid's problem might have been started by his parents.
 
2012-12-21 11:17:51 AM

Moonlightfox: Liberals already believe anyone who owns a gun, wants to own a gun or supports gun ownership is mentally ill, so it's kind of hard to have any sort of meaningful discussion about the role of mental illness on gun violence. To them possessing a firearm makes you a loon automatically.


I see you're open to conversation and not at all paranoid yourself...
 
2012-12-21 11:59:42 AM

Bullseyed: syrynxx: What do you do with a child like that?  Do nothing until he snaps and kills someone?

You use the mental care facilities available. Commit him to a mental hospital. Parents are too stupid to figure that out I guess.


The costs of long term institutionilization are skyhigh and no insurance pays for it. Also, you simply can't do that until they are a danger to others. Nobody believed Lanza was a danger to others, not even the psychologist he was seeing regularly.
 
2012-12-21 01:02:53 PM

LDM90: Jesus, can we stop acting like it's one or the other? Can't the problem be guns AND crazy people?


That's crazy talk; here's your gun.
 
2012-12-21 03:01:43 PM

OscarTamerz: Mental illness isn't the problem, the fact that the ACLU brought a series of suits saying that you can't lock people up for just being crazy you have to prove that they are a threat to themselves or others. If the police had dropped by the Lanzas that morning before he shot his mother there is nothing they could have done to save her or the kids at that school.


it isnt an either-or solution, you should not have to choose between locking the mentally Ill in jail and letting them run loose. That is the problem right now.
there are varying degrees of need for intervention. the legal litmus test for forcibly locking someone up (having to prove they are a danger to themselves or others) is still good in my book, but there needs to be something for that in-between, something that still protects the rights of the mentally ill while protecting themselves, the public, and hopefully improving their condition with the least amount of side effects.
are you against this? i'm tired of hearing "kill them" or "lock them up" even though i know it's probably in jest. What I fear is an over-reaction that will erode the rights of those deemed "mentally ill" by stupid incompetent psychs
 
2012-12-21 03:37:12 PM

leadmetal: nconvenient people. The soviet union sent people to Siberia to help their mental illness. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry_in_the_Sov iet_Union

There's no such thing as "mental illness". An Illness is found with objective tests. There's a problem in the blood chemistry, there's a tumor in the brain, etc and so forth. Mental illness is subjective and that's what makes it useful to get rid of inconvenient people. It's also a useful place to dump patients whom doctors can't figure out what is wrong with them. Ever notice that many a physical disease is classified as "mental illness" until someone finally



this
this
this

/this
 
2012-12-21 07:32:02 PM

Panatheist: leadmetal: nconvenient people. The soviet union sent people to Siberia to help their mental illness. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry_in_the_Sov iet_Union

There's no such thing as "mental illness". An Illness is found with objective tests. There's a problem in the blood chemistry, there's a tumor in the brain, etc and so forth. Mental illness is subjective and that's what makes it useful to get rid of inconvenient people. It's also a useful place to dump patients whom doctors can't figure out what is wrong with them. Ever notice that many a physical disease is classified as "mental illness" until someone finally


this
this
this

/this


oh. you know he just had a demon.
 
2012-12-21 09:21:38 PM

Genevieve Marie: This new trend of parents going on the record and exposing the confidential and highly sensitive medical information of their minor children does not sit well with me at all.


It is worth examining the motivation behind the trend.
 
2012-12-22 09:31:20 AM

leadmetal: There's no such thing as "mental illness". An Illness is found with objective tests. There's a problem in the blood chemistry, there's a tumor in the brain, etc and so forth. Mental illness is subjective and that's what makes it useful to get rid of inconvenient people. It's also a useful place to dump patients whom doctors can't figure out what is wrong with them. Ever notice that many a physical disease is classified as "mental illness" until someone finally finds the physical problem?


actually there is such a thing as "mental illness" though most of what you're saying is correct.

darn that free will

/politics doesn't help much either
 
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