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(Washington Post)   Gather 'round boys and girls, it's time to choose your fiscal cliff adventure [interactive]   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 47
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2151 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Dec 2012 at 5:37 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-20 05:25:19 PM
I clicked the selections then it told me I was eaten by a Grue.  How the hell did that happen?!
 
2012-12-20 05:39:52 PM
Webpage got eaten by a grue Safari. Chrome is OK, though. Thanks sub by!
 
2012-12-20 05:40:09 PM
Can i choose an option where Boehner and Cantor get chased out of the Capitol by really big wolves?
 
2012-12-20 05:40:44 PM
I want the submarine
 
2012-12-20 05:42:01 PM
FF scrolls funbit under graph
 
2012-12-20 05:42:37 PM
IE is a hot mess
 
2012-12-20 05:43:23 PM
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2012-12-20 05:44:54 PM
Surplus starting in 2017. Easy, and it included the American Jobs Act and public health care option into the bargain.
 
2012-12-20 05:53:21 PM
Just flip directly to page 101.
 
2012-12-20 05:56:23 PM
I got to a large surplus in 16, included all the good stuff for regular folks, took a vat to do it though.
 
2012-12-20 05:57:47 PM

Ivo Shandor: Just flip directly to page 101.

 
24.media.tumblr.com
 
/Obscure?
 
2012-12-20 05:58:24 PM

Mrtraveler01: Ivo Shandor: Just flip directly to page 101.

[24.media.tumblr.com image 385x369]

/Obscure?


Rocko is never obscure
 
2012-12-20 05:58:55 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: Surplus starting in 2017. Easy, and it included the American Jobs Act and public health care option into the bargain.


Hell, the best I could do was $510B in the red by 2021.

I GUESS I JUST CARE TOO MUCH.
 
2012-12-20 06:01:18 PM

SuperT: I got to a large surplus in 16, included all the good stuff for regular folks, took a vat to do it though.


A Dark Evil Omen: Surplus starting in 2017. Easy, and it included the American Jobs Act and public health care option into the bargain.


What was your GDP estimate?
 
2012-12-20 06:01:38 PM
$474 Billion Surplus in 2021 with a surplus starting in 2015. I GUESS I DON"T CARE ENOUGH
 
2012-12-20 06:02:14 PM

ArtosRC: A Dark Evil Omen: Surplus starting in 2017. Easy, and it included the American Jobs Act and public health care option into the bargain.

Hell, the best I could do was $510B in the red by 2021.

I GUESS I JUST CARE TOO MUCH.


The options I chose:

- Repeal non-defense sequestration
- Extend payroll/UI stimulus
- Public Option
- Speed up health care excise tax
- Carbon cap-and-trade
- American Jobs Act

Ditch most tax cuts (but don't add any regressive taxes either), get people back to work. Done and dusted.
 
2012-12-20 06:02:32 PM
Off-topic, but I seriously did a "WTF?!?" when I saw this ad at the top of Fark while reading this thread.

img268.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-20 06:03:12 PM

bartink: SuperT: I got to a large surplus in 16, included all the good stuff for regular folks, took a vat to do it though.

A Dark Evil Omen: Surplus starting in 2017. Easy, and it included the American Jobs Act and public health care option into the bargain.

What was your GDP estimate?


+2.35% in 2013
 
2012-12-20 06:03:35 PM
5% GDP growth, leading to fuller employment and a happier populace. No surplus, because we don't need one.
 
2012-12-20 06:05:50 PM

bartink: 5% GDP growth, leading to fuller employment and a happier populace. No surplus, because we don't need one.


I assume any surplus could be used to pay down the national debt?
 
2012-12-20 06:06:59 PM

dracos31: Off-topic, but I seriously did a "WTF?!?" when I saw this ad at the top of Fark while reading this thread.

[img268.imageshack.us image 735x96]


Nothing says merry Christmas like bachmann coulter overdrive.
 
2012-12-20 06:07:00 PM

Sandusky Knows Best: bartink: 5% GDP growth, leading to fuller employment and a happier populace. No surplus, because we don't need one.

I assume any surplus could be used to pay down the national debt?


Yeah, fark the debt. That's the non-government sectors savings.
 
2012-12-20 06:11:57 PM

dracos31: Off-topic, but I seriously did a "WTF?!?" when I saw this ad at the top of Fark while reading this thread.

[img268.imageshack.us image 735x96]


Yeah, I've gotten Impeach Obama ads.
 
2012-12-20 06:12:36 PM
That was cool. I got to play a rich guy chasing poors through the streets with my Bentley. Every time I ran over one I got a big power boost.
 
2012-12-20 06:13:46 PM
Delayed the Defence Cuts to 2016, put in the public option, increased the gas tax, limited charitable deduction, and tossed in the carbon price option, and extended the Payroll/UI gets...

756 billion defficeit in 2013, but a 140 billion surplus in 2021.
 
2012-12-20 06:17:51 PM

Summercat: Delayed the Defence Cuts to 2016, put in the public option, increased the gas tax, limited charitable deduction, and tossed in the carbon price option, and extended the Payroll/UI gets...

756 billion defficeit in 2013, but a 140 billion surplus in 2021.


Your profile says you're from California. Why are you speaking Canadian?
 
2012-12-20 06:19:50 PM
So if I let the fiscal cliff happen, select every single one of the "deficit reducers," and do all of the stimulus measures I get the following:

An average of 3.8% GDP growth over the next 3 years.
A $1 trillion surplus starting in 2016 with it peaking at $1.5 trillion in 2021

That's awesome...but somehow I doubt that will happen...
 
2012-12-20 06:22:14 PM
Effect on GDP growth
GDP Change in 2013: +0.65%

Cost of select policies vs. projected deficits
Surplus in 2021: $284 billion

Bush tax cuts expire, public option, delay the non-defense sequester to 2016, carbon tax. Who wants to come live in my world?
 
2012-12-20 06:32:27 PM
+4.06% growth in 2013

$508 billion surplus in 2021, with $310 billion surplus starting in 2015.

/could improve the numbers a bit by getting rid of the military ceiling, but I think we have enough tanks to last for a while.
//public option & VAT & raising Soc Sec tax contribution limit, biatches.
///Making USA look like Socialist Europe totally works
 
2012-12-20 06:35:50 PM

Tax Boy: +4.06% growth in 2013

$508 billion surplus in 2021, with $310 billion surplus starting in 2015.

/could improve the numbers a bit by getting rid of the military ceiling, but I think we have enough tanks to last for a while.
//public option & VAT & raising Soc Sec tax contribution limit, biatches.
///Making USA look like Socialist Europe totally works


and gas and carbon tax.
 
2012-12-20 07:07:09 PM
The problem with this analysis is that it doesn't take into account that the government deficit is the non-government sectors surplus. So, down the road, if the government drops the deficit to 2% of GDP and the trade deficit remains at 4% of GDP, that 2% difference is going to come out of the domestic sector: American households and firms. And if you think firms are going to starve for savings behind households, you haven't been paying attention.
 
2012-12-20 07:34:29 PM

Cletus C.: Summercat: Delayed the Defence Cuts to 2016, put in the public option, increased the gas tax, limited charitable deduction, and tossed in the carbon price option, and extended the Payroll/UI gets...

756 billion defficeit in 2013, but a 140 billion surplus in 2021.

Your profile says you're from California. Why are you speaking Canadian?


Ill take that as a compliment.

/Capitalistic Socialism
 
2012-12-20 07:38:27 PM
Yup, we're farked.
 
2012-12-20 08:01:28 PM
Curiously missing:

Option to treat capital gains as normal income.
Option to create a 40% tax bracket at $1M and a 45% bracket at $3M.

I could get a really good surplus by 2015 and not affect the economy much just with those and a few other tweaks.
 
2012-12-20 08:06:22 PM
That made it seem trivially easy, and there weren't even any options to actively raise income taxes. I wish it were actually that easy.
 
2012-12-20 08:18:34 PM
Repeal the defense sequester, extend the payroll/UI, limit tax expenditures to 15%, limit charitable deductions.
Add value-added tax, carbon price, Jobs Act, double the make work pay credit, income tax rebate.
 
When the smoke clears we're looking at 4% GDP growth with a surplus starting in 2016, up to $528 billion by 2021. Come to my planet! We have cake!
 
2012-12-20 08:37:07 PM
We're screwed.
 
2012-12-20 09:25:43 PM
i45.tinypic.com

Keep Bush cuts for normal people, raise retirement age 2 years, no problem.
 
2012-12-21 12:01:39 AM
The trick is just to check everything. +5.96% GDP change, and $786 billion surplus ($470 billion in 2016)! It's like magic. Just shows how easy fixing the economy is in real life.
 
2012-12-21 05:40:34 AM
Where was the option to eliminate social security, medicare, and medicaid altogether?
 
2012-12-21 08:27:58 AM

cousin-merle: raise retirement age 2 years


I don't like this idea - it affects the poorer elderly hardest.
 
2012-12-21 08:46:54 AM
Neat little fantasy.
 
2012-12-21 08:57:33 AM

SevenizGud: Where was the option to eliminate social security, medicare, and medicaid altogether?


Right next to the option to eliminate corporate welfare and the military.
 
2012-12-21 09:14:04 AM
 
2012-12-21 10:08:39 AM

cousin-merle: I don't like this idea - it affects the poorer elderly hardest.

It's gotta go up eventually. People live longer. I think it should be phased in over a longer period though.


People who reach the age of 65 are not living significantly longer actually, the average has gone up because less infants are dying. And of those who are living longer, it's almost entirely the rich ones, the ones who can afford to retire early.

graphics8.nytimes.com
 
2012-12-21 10:32:30 AM

Thats No Moose: People who reach the age of 65 are not living significantly longer actually, the average has gone up because less infants are dying. And of those who are living longer, it's almost entirely the rich ones, the ones who can afford to retire early.


Your chart is a little misleading, since it only cites men, who have a lower life expectancy. According to your chart, LE went up 1.1 years over 20 year period to 16.1. According to Social Security Administration, the number for men is now 18 years beyond 65:

A man reaching age 65 today can expect to live, on average, until age 83.


So, SSA says life expectancy for men went from 15.3 in 1990 to 18 now, and increase in over 2.5 years over 20 year period. I think having retirement age go up 2 years over 30 year period is reasonable.
 
2012-12-21 10:48:51 AM
Repeal the sequester cuts, DON'T extend any of the tax cuts, DO extend the payroll/UI
Public Option, increase payroll tax cap, index to prices not wages, delay the cuts due in 2016,
Add ALL the stimulus.

I would have liked to see some options on capital gains and the ability to raise/extend taxes on each bracket, but oh well.

4.76% GDP increase, breakeven in 2017, surplus of 35 billion in 2021.

This doesn't seem that hard.
 
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