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(KFYI)   According to the CDC, in 2015 more people will die from gunshot wounds than car accidents in the US for the first time ever   (politics.kfyi.com) divider line 261
    More: Sad, gun deaths, gunshot wound  
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3038 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Dec 2012 at 12:56 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-20 10:21:13 AM
So the CDC is freaking psychic now? It's not even 2013 yet. The fear Mongers are working overtime on this one. The funny thing is the people spouting this nonsense are the same people that are pro-population control through abortions. Freaking cowardly idiots.
 
2012-12-20 10:25:43 AM

voltOhm: So the CDC is freaking psychic now? It's not even 2013 yet. The fear Mongers are working overtime on this one. The funny thing is the people spouting this nonsense are the same people that are pro-population control through abortions. Freaking cowardly idiots.

 
Know how I know you don't know how extrapolation, trend lines, math, and the CDC work?
 
2012-12-20 10:34:37 AM
Bookmarked for Jan, 1 2016.
 
2012-12-20 10:34:48 AM

Magorn: Know how I know you don't know how extrapolation, trend lines, math, and the CDC work?


Have the CDC's numbers been unskewed yet?
 
2012-12-20 10:38:03 AM
I need to hit them up for some stock tips.
 
2012-12-20 10:41:10 AM

voltOhm: So the CDC is freaking psychic now? It's not even 2013 yet. The fear Mongers are working overtime on this one. The funny thing is the people spouting this nonsense are the same people that are pro-population control through abortions. Freaking cowardly idiots.

 
Weapons.  Grade.  Stupid.

 
2012-12-20 10:56:54 AM
I do seem to recall that there was a huge pile up on the I-6 just about the same time that the Battle of Antietam was going on.
 
2012-12-20 11:11:41 AM
To be fair, this is also a reflection of the trend to safer cars as the older unsafe ones age off the roads. Cars are getting safer to the point that "insurance adjuster" is a job that is in decline.
 
2012-12-20 11:42:47 AM
The greatest nation in history!
 
2012-12-20 12:48:54 PM
Many of the people who will doubt this prediction are the same people who predicted a comfortable win for Mitt Romney last month.
 
2012-12-20 12:54:56 PM
It's not the first time ever; I'm sure this was the case before cars were invented as well.  But there is also more here than just "gun violence will destroy us all"... but I'm pretty sure we'll hear what they are.
 

Earguy: To be fair, this is also a reflection of the trend to safer cars as the older unsafe ones age off the roads. Cars are getting safer to the point that "insurance adjuster" is a job that is in decline.


Like this, less kids getting their licenses at 16, more DUI monitoring, ect ect.
 
2012-12-20 12:56:42 PM

voltOhm: So the CDC is freaking psychic now?


This
 
2012-12-20 12:57:01 PM

voltOhm: So the CDC is freaking psychic now? It's not even 2013 yet. The fear Mongers are working overtime on this one. The funny thing is the people spouting this nonsense are the same people that are pro-population control through abortions. Freaking cowardly idiots.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-20 12:57:28 PM
Zombie King George III is coming! Oooga booga! Be scared of our government elected by a majority of Americans! Beware your neighbors who are cops or soldiers! BLACK HELICOPTERS, SHEEPLE!
 
2012-12-20 12:58:16 PM
Cars becoming radically safer isn't sad subby.
 
2012-12-20 12:58:44 PM

Earguy: To be fair, this is also a reflection of the trend to safer cars as the older unsafe ones age off the roads. Cars are getting safer to the point that "insurance adjuster" is a job that is in decline.


Also, the end of insanely cheap gasoline has made people drive a little less often, and a little more passively.
 
2012-12-20 12:59:09 PM

Earguy: To be fair, this is also a reflection of the trend to safer cars as the older unsafe ones age off the roads. Cars are getting safer to the point that "insurance adjuster" is a job that is in decline.


Cars have not yet reached a point that they avoid collisions by themselves. I'm related to an adjuster and believe me, there is no shortage of work. People wreck their cars only ever so slightly less often than before, it's just that they are much more likely to live through it these days.
 
2012-12-20 12:59:20 PM

voltOhm: So the CDC is freaking psychic now? It's not even 2013 yet. The fear Mongers are working overtime on this one. The funny thing is the people spouting this nonsense are the same people that are pro-population control through abortions. Freaking cowardly idiots.



Yes, yes, Obama is coming for your surrogate penises, now settle down.
 
2012-12-20 12:59:29 PM
Rational person: good news, we've implemented safety design standards in cars such that people aren't getting killed in car accidents as much!

Person with a political agenda: Guns is killing more people than cars! Wharnargle
 
2012-12-20 12:59:51 PM
I find that last paragraph fascinating.
 
2012-12-20 01:00:23 PM
Something tells me that more people died of gunshot wounds than automobile accidents back in the 1800s.
 
2012-12-20 01:00:26 PM
Hundreds of thousands of people died in the US during the Civil War. Not a single person died in a car accident that year.

YOU LIE, OBAMA.
 
2012-12-20 01:00:26 PM
There won't be any guns by 2015.Obama wil have them all.
 
2012-12-20 01:01:02 PM
Go ahead, just try and get a word in edgewise to people that haven't already been to the future.
Asshats.
 
2012-12-20 01:01:11 PM

BunkoSquad


Many of the people who will doubt this prediction are the same people who predicted a comfortable win for Mitt Romney last month.


Can we get Nate Silver in here for a ruling, please?
 
2012-12-20 01:01:13 PM
What? This is an outrage! We must solve this by removing the CDC's funding!

Link
 
2012-12-20 01:01:18 PM

voltOhm: So the CDC is freaking psychic now? It's not even 2013 yet. The fear Mongers are working overtime on this one. The funny thing is the people spouting this nonsense are the same people that are pro-population control through abortions. Freaking cowardly idiots.


Please help me, I'm so confused.

Is the answer tax cuts for the rich or more guns?
 
GBB
2012-12-20 01:01:31 PM

Magorn: voltOhm: So the CDC is freaking psychic now? It's not even 2013 yet. The fear Mongers are working overtime on this one. The funny thing is the people spouting this nonsense are the same people that are pro-population control through abortions. Freaking cowardly idiots.

Know how I know you don't know how extrapolation, trend lines, math, and the CDC work?


t1.gstatic.com
 
2012-12-20 01:01:55 PM
Magorn:
Know how I know you don't know how extrapolation, trend lines, math, and the CDC work?

you know how I know that you don't?
 
/you can't simply take a trend line and extend it forever into the future and expect an accurate prediction
 
2012-12-20 01:02:00 PM
Still waiting for those "super-predators" we were promised.
 
2012-12-20 01:02:08 PM
FTFA: "Every day, 85 Americans are shot dead, about 53 of them in suicides."
 
So are we to assume that of the 53 people that off themselves, some would not find another means if a gun was not available?
 
2012-12-20 01:02:08 PM
Undoubtedly, the more federal authorities continue to focus on only dismantling the upper echelon of gang structures, the more post-arrest turf wars you'll have. One has to look no further than Chicago for an excellent example at one gang becoming many due to taskforce arrests, and violence increasing as all of those new gangs fight for territory.
 
2012-12-20 01:02:37 PM
Considering that the total number of individuals killed by firearms is about static (even as our population grows) and the total number of individuals killed by cars is dramatically decreasing (even as our population grows), how in the world is this sad? This is very, very good news.
 
2012-12-20 01:02:58 PM
If gun control isn't tightened up that'll be the case (the headline).
 
2012-12-20 01:03:15 PM
begun car wars have

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-20 01:03:32 PM

Insatiable Jesus: voltOhm: So the CDC is freaking psychic now? It's not even 2013 yet. The fear Mongers are working overtime on this one. The funny thing is the people spouting this nonsense are the same people that are pro-population control through abortions. Freaking cowardly idiots.


Yes, yes, Obama is coming for your surrogate penises, now settle down.


He can have my Porsche when he pries the wheel from my cold, dead hands!
 
2012-12-20 01:03:36 PM

Magorn: voltOhm: So the CDC is freaking psychic now? It's not even 2013 yet. The fear Mongers are working overtime on this one. The funny thing is the people spouting this nonsense are the same people that are pro-population control through abortions. Freaking cowardly idiots.

Know how I know you don't know how extrapolation, trend lines, math, and the CDC work?


Have they figure out how many of those are suicides by car?
 
2012-12-20 01:03:39 PM
According to the CDC, in 2015 more 32,000 people will die from gunshot wounds than car accidents in the US for the first time ever  
 
FTFY
 
According to Bloomberg, this is less than gun fatalities.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-19/american-gun-deaths-to-exce ed -traffic-fatalities-by-2015.html 
 
www.bloomberg.com
 
2012-12-20 01:03:50 PM

Voiceofreason01: you can't simply take a trend line and extend it forever into the future and expect an accurate prediction


Especially if you're stupid.
 
2012-12-20 01:04:21 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Earguy: To be fair, this is also a reflection of the trend to safer cars as the older unsafe ones age off the roads. Cars are getting safer to the point that "insurance adjuster" is a job that is in decline.

Also, the end of insanely cheap gasoline has made people drive a little less often, and a little more passively.


This and this ^
 
2012-12-20 01:04:39 PM

Colin O'Scopy: If gun control isn't tightened up that'll be the case (the headline).


Automobile fatalities are falling, gun fatalities are more or less static.
 
/you're an idiot
 
2012-12-20 01:04:52 PM
CDC Spokesman:

virtualbill.files.wordpress.com
 
db2
2012-12-20 01:05:12 PM
Cars are becoming safer? This is an outrage. We have to do something about this.
 
2012-12-20 01:05:36 PM

impaler: According to the CDC, in 2015 more 32,000 people will die from gunshot wounds than car accidents in the US for the first time ever

FTFY

According to Bloomberg, this is less than gun fatalities.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-19/american-gun-deaths-to-exce ed -traffic-fatalities-by-2015.html

[www.bloomberg.com image 620x413]


Given falling rates of homicide and unintended fatal firearm injuries, the obvious solution is attempting to prevent suicide.

Alternatively, the nation could ban assault weapons and not avert the problem at all.
 
2012-12-20 01:06:23 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: and a little more passively.



You know how I know you do not live in NoVa/DC metro area?
 
2012-12-20 01:06:37 PM
Filter the "gun deaths" for suicides, and you lose more than half of them.

Filter the remainder for gangs and drug dealers, and you lose 75% more.

Then compare that number to the number of collisions, including both those that result in deaths AND those that result in hospitalizations, amputations and disabilities, which is what you get when you have safer cars being driven on the same sh*tty road system.

The comparison starts to fall apart.
 
2012-12-20 01:07:20 PM

EngineerAU: What? This is an outrage! We must solve this by removing the CDC's funding!

Link


Never knew that. Yet one more thing Republicans hate about reality.
 
2012-12-20 01:07:21 PM

darwinpolice: Hundreds of thousands of people died in the US during the Civil War. Not a single person died in a car accident that year.

YOU LIE, OBAMA.


wrong! Wrong! WRONG!

Obama has a time machine. He used it to take Van Diesel's son back to the Civil War and ended up killing a bunch of slaves while drifting though Antietam. What did you think all that 'Fast & Furious' talk on Fox was all about? It also proves that Obama is black hating racist for killing those slaves.
 
2012-12-20 01:07:28 PM
Show me the relevant stats.

Exclude the people who are involved in the drug trade.
Exclude suicides.
Exclude domestic violence incidents where one of the participants has either a violent criminal record or the police have been previously called to the residence more than once.

This statistic is as bullshiat as the "drunk" driving statistic where they count the incident as "alcohol related" if a sober driver hits a drunk pedestrian or if the diver is sober but the passenger is intoxicated.
 
2012-12-20 01:07:38 PM

Voiceofreason01: /you can't simply take a trend line and extend it forever into the future and expect an accurate prediction


Unless you're a climatologist.
 
2012-12-20 01:07:55 PM
A third of the 156 mass killings did not involve firearms, but rather fire, knife or other weapon

People don't think enough about the children....I thought 1 death was too many?

.
 
2012-12-20 01:08:27 PM

Earguy: To be fair, this is also a reflection of the trend to safer cars as the older unsafe ones age off the roads. Cars are getting safer to the point that "insurance adjuster" is a job that is in decline.


To be fair, this is about 99% safer car and 1% guns.
 
2012-12-20 01:08:29 PM
At the risk of sounding pedantic, I'd like to point out that more people died of gunshot wounds than car accidents in every year between the invention of the gun and the invention of the automobile. And probably for a number of years after the invention of the automobile.
 
2012-12-20 01:08:59 PM
I don't listen to projections anymore, they're wrong far too often. Ever since I got screwed by Disco Stu and his fancy chart. I'm not sure I'll ever be able to trust again.
 
2012-12-20 01:09:07 PM

Phinn:  being driven on the same sh*tty road system.

 
As someone who just drove to work after the first snow of the year, I blame the quality of drivers and driver training more than the roads
 
/the rest of your point it pretty much spot on
 
2012-12-20 01:09:21 PM

EngineerAU: Obama has a time machine. He used it to take Van Diesel's son back to the Civil War

 
Who's Van Diesel?
 
2012-12-20 01:09:30 PM
Until we legalize eutanasia just let the people in pain have access to guns because when they try to kill themselves other ways...they only maim or cripple themselves.

Have some compassion.
 
2012-12-20 01:09:51 PM
And to think, we've never proposed banning cars before this year!!
 
2012-12-20 01:10:45 PM
I wonder how many of those deaths will occur in places like Chicago--which has over 500 murders in 2012 along with some of the harshest gun-control laws in the country.
 
2012-12-20 01:10:48 PM

Insatiable Jesus: voltOhm: So the CDC is freaking psychic now? It's not even 2013 yet. The fear Mongers are working overtime on this one. The funny thing is the people spouting this nonsense are the same people that are pro-population control through abortions. Freaking cowardly idiots.


Yes, yes, Obama is coming for your surrogate penises, now settle down.


Markley's law violation.
 
2012-12-20 01:10:50 PM
I wrote all of my congress members this morning, and for the first time, joined the NRA.

Obama must not be permitted to exploit the deaths of these children for his own self-serving, anti-rights agenda.

And unfortunately liberals, it looks like after they try their hatchet job on the 2nd Amendment, the 1st Amendment is next in line, at least in terms of "violent" video games. Your fellow democrats are already beating that drum:

Video Games Targeted By Senate In Wake Of Sandy Hook Shooting - HuffPo
 
2012-12-20 01:11:23 PM

Voiceofreason01: Magorn:
Know how I know you don't know how extrapolation, trend lines, math, and the CDC work?

you know how I know that you don't?

/you can't simply take a trend line and extend it forever into the future and expect an accurate prediction


Two years is forever? I guess if you believe the rapture is nigh...
 
2012-12-20 01:11:42 PM
If you go back 50 and 100 years and look at what the leading causes of death were you will admit that things have improved. I am also willing to bet that the percentage of people that die in auto accidents and from gunshot wounds is a pretty small percentage of deaths as a whole.You can play all kinds of games with the numbers when they represent a small portion of the population.
 
2012-12-20 01:12:38 PM

Dimensio: impaler: According to the CDC, in 2015 more 32,000 people will die from gunshot wounds than car accidents in the US for the first time ever

FTFY

According to Bloomberg, this is less than gun fatalities.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-19/american-gun-deaths-to-exce ed -traffic-fatalities-by-2015.html

[www.bloomberg.com image 620x413]

Given falling rates of homicide and unintended fatal firearm injuries, the obvious solution is attempting to prevent suicide.

Alternatively, the nation could ban assault weapons and not avert the problem at all.


Is it our right to prevent suicide? Is being alive a prison now?
 
2012-12-20 01:12:54 PM
Cars+safer=politicals
 
2012-12-20 01:13:08 PM

Lev_Astov: Insatiable Jesus: voltOhm: So the CDC is freaking psychic now? It's not even 2013 yet. The fear Mongers are working overtime on this one. The funny thing is the people spouting this nonsense are the same people that are pro-population control through abortions. Freaking cowardly idiots.


Yes, yes, Obama is coming for your surrogate penises, now settle down.

He can have my Porsche when he pries the wheel from my cold, dead hands!


img353.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-20 01:13:11 PM
Why doesn't the link go to the original article in Bloomberg? Why some AM talk radio website?
Why? Why?
 
2012-12-20 01:13:15 PM

impaler: According to the CDC, in 2015 more 32,000 people will die from gunshot wounds than car accidents in the US for the first time ever

FTFY

According to Bloomberg, this is less than gun fatalities.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-19/american-gun-deaths-to-exce ed -traffic-fatalities-by-2015.html

[www.bloomberg.com image 620x413]


What happened in the early 90s vs the late 90s in terms of firearm deaths? Seems like a big drop relatively speaking. Did Clinton have something to do with it?
 
2012-12-20 01:13:46 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: EngineerAU: Obama has a time machine. He used it to take Van Diesel's son back to the Civil War

Who's Van Diesel?


Count Von Diesel's grandson.

/He invented the grocery store. It's true. Study it out.
 
2012-12-20 01:13:49 PM
according to my fb friends who post the same picture, all we need to is Israel something something.
 
2012-12-20 01:13:59 PM
Bllomberg + Obama Administration = Pure Bullshiat
 
2012-12-20 01:14:02 PM

RembrandtQEinstein: Show me the relevant stats.

Exclude the people who are involved in the drug trade.
Exclude suicides.
Exclude domestic violence incidents where one of the participants has either a violent criminal record or the police have been previously called to the residence more than once.


And on the other side.
Exclude pedestrians who are fatally hit by cars but not in cars themselves
Exclude car accidents where weather is a factor
Exclude buses and trucks

And whatever else you have to exclude to make it look like I'm right.
 
2012-12-20 01:14:58 PM

bacongood: Earguy: To be fair, this is also a reflection of the trend to safer cars as the older unsafe ones age off the roads. Cars are getting safer to the point that "insurance adjuster" is a job that is in decline.

To be fair, this is about 99% safer car and 1% guns.


Somebody could probably make an argument that the "99% safer cars" thing is related to governmental intrusion, with things like safety requirements, mandatory licensing based on driver training, and so forth. They might even suggest that some of the same sort of actions could be taken regarding guns and it might produce an analogous result.
 
2012-12-20 01:15:01 PM

A Shambling Mound: Earguy: To be fair, this is also a reflection of the trend to safer cars as the older unsafe ones age off the roads. Cars are getting safer to the point that "insurance adjuster" is a job that is in decline.

Cars have not yet reached a point that they avoid collisions by themselves. I'm related to an adjuster and believe me, there is no shortage of work. People wreck their cars only ever so slightly less often than before, it's just that they are much more likely to live through it these days.


I said that because I read an article about certain jobs in decline, and insurance adjuster was on the list. It was on Yahoo news, so it must be true.
 
2012-12-20 01:15:51 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: So are we to assume that of the 53 people that off themselves, some would not find another means if a gun was not available?


Other methods are less effective and less portable. Firearm use is a big reason why men have a much greater "success" rate at suicide than women do. That being said, we had a student at my command in the military that decided a 12-gauge blast to the chest was the way to go. He didn't die. That was a surprise to all involved, no doubt.

When it comes down to it, cars are becoming (as they have since the 60s especially) measurably safer. We've mastered crash survivability and now have moved into avoidance. ESC, traction control, and some advanced cruise controls actively work to prevent accidents. Cars are even far safer now for pedestrians that are struck; that is the reason that all new cars have that more blob-like front end and higher belt-lines.

Guns on the other hand are becoming more lethal. Better optics, better ergonomics, though I can't speak to mechanical reliability. There are a ton of garbage-quality firearms available. Auto deaths are decreasing deliberately, mostly because the users and makers of automobiles don't want the recipients of their product to die. It is kind of an unfair comparison, really.
 
2012-12-20 01:16:16 PM
OK, but if somebody accidentally drives into oncoming bullet fire, which one gets the kill added to their stats?
 
2012-12-20 01:16:18 PM

homarjr: What happened in the early 90s vs the late 90s in terms of firearm deaths? Seems like a big drop relatively speaking. Did Clinton have something to do with it?


Aborted children entered their late teens and 20s.
 
2012-12-20 01:16:24 PM

RembrandtQEinstein: Show me the relevant stats.

Exclude the people who are involved in the drug trade.
Exclude suicides.
Exclude domestic violence incidents where one of the participants has either a violent criminal record or the police have been previously called to the residence more than once.

This statistic is as bullshiat as the "drunk" driving statistic where they count the incident as "alcohol related" if a sober driver hits a drunk pedestrian or if the diver is sober but the passenger is intoxicated.


Ok, so drug related violence and sucide are no longer crimes in this country? We aren't trying to reduce them anymore and we just get to ignore them? Awesome. Now that we all live in a crime free utopia, I guess you don't need that gun for self-defense anymore.
 
2012-12-20 01:16:43 PM

justGreg: Somebody could probably make an argument that the "99% safer cars" thing is related to governmental intrusion, with things like safety requirements, mandatory licensing based on driver training, and so forth. They might even suggest that some of the same sort of actions could be taken regarding guns and it might produce an analogous result.


Well, that and the United States having a robust (although far from perfect) emergency medical system.
 
I'm glad I'm not having to cut people out of non-tempered safety glass after they slide up the steering column and impale themselves on the shards like my counterparts in the 70s had to, personally.
 
2012-12-20 01:16:54 PM
We can prevent this by banning guns. There. Problem solved. You're welcome.
 
2012-12-20 01:16:56 PM

EngineerAU: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: EngineerAU: Obama has a time machine. He used it to take Van Diesel's son back to the Civil War

Who's Van Diesel?

Count Von Diesel's grandson.

/He invented the grocery store. It's true. Study it out.


I thought they invented overpriced blue jeans.
 
2012-12-20 01:16:59 PM

wheresourfish: OK, but if somebody accidentally drives into oncoming bullet fire, which one gets the kill added to their stats?


You can get credit for half a sack in football.

/or baseball if you're John Kruk
//ba dum chhhh
 
2012-12-20 01:17:11 PM
How many were road rage that should have been carried in both columns?
 
2012-12-20 01:17:53 PM
There are too many people - this helps.
 
2012-12-20 01:17:58 PM

WhoopAssWayne: I wrote all of my congress members this morning, and for the first time, joined the NRA.

Obama must not be permitted to exploit the deaths of these children for his own self-serving, anti-rights agenda.



bradycenter.org

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....
 
2012-12-20 01:18:41 PM
Rather than babbling about how evil guns are, I think we should be pleased that automobile-related accidents are becoming less lethal.
 
2012-12-20 01:19:01 PM
I'd rather we just go back to the wild wild west ways, cause then I would have a lot less morons to deal with.
 
2012-12-20 01:19:05 PM

impaler: According to the CDC, in 2015 more 32,000 people will die from gunshot wounds than car accidents in the US for the first time ever

FTFY

According to Bloomberg, this is less than gun fatalities.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-19/american-gun-deaths-to-exce ed -traffic-fatalities-by-2015.html

[www.bloomberg.com image 620x413]


I love how no other lines on the graph are straight except for the imaginary parts...

Lets see....population increasing = number of deaths increasing, automobiles getting safer, automotive deaths decreasing.. GUNS ARE EVIL!!!

Awesome.
 
2012-12-20 01:19:07 PM

Charlie Chingas: We can prevent this by banning guns. There. Problem solved. You're welcome.


And fertilizer.
And accelerants.
And projectiles.
And blunt objects.
Any piercing objects.

There are always weapons.

At least with a gun you have a chance to stop/overwhelm the shooter, can't say the same for someone with a bomb.
 
2012-12-20 01:19:46 PM
Actually, a more *HONEST* metric would be to compare accidental vehicle deaths with accidental firearms deaths.

Also, it's not the CDC saying it: It's Bloomberg Government, using CDC data. Bloomberg Government is at least partly controlled by Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who is one of the biggest anti-gun personalities out there.

I'd trust their manipulation of the data about as far as I'd trust Mayor Mike with my gun collection.

For those on the other side, this is about as credible as you would trust the NRA with CDC data.
 
2012-12-20 01:19:54 PM

Earguy: A Shambling Mound: Earguy: To be fair, this is also a reflection of the trend to safer cars as the older unsafe ones age off the roads. Cars are getting safer to the point that "insurance adjuster" is a job that is in decline.

Cars have not yet reached a point that they avoid collisions by themselves. I'm related to an adjuster and believe me, there is no shortage of work. People wreck their cars only ever so slightly less often than before, it's just that they are much more likely to live through it these days.

I said that because I read an article about certain jobs in decline, and insurance adjuster was on the list. It was on Yahoo news, so it must be true.


I wouldn't actually argue the point, for all I know he's as busy as he is because all of the other adjusters have been laid off. I just wanted to point out that actual fatalities are down because the cars take impact better and less so because they don't get impacted in the first place.
 
2012-12-20 01:19:57 PM

homarjr: /Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....


That we need to keep a better watch on unsupervised guns?
 
2012-12-20 01:20:02 PM

homarjr: WhoopAssWayne: I wrote all of my congress members this morning, and for the first time, joined the NRA.

Obama must not be permitted to exploit the deaths of these children for his own self-serving, anti-rights agenda.

[bradycenter.org image 740x343]

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....

 
 
200 IN CANADA?? They must all be hunting accidents right?
 
2012-12-20 01:20:08 PM

homarjr: WhoopAssWayne: I wrote all of my congress members this morning, and for the first time, joined the NRA.

Obama must not be permitted to exploit the deaths of these children for his own self-serving, anti-rights agenda.

[bradycenter.org image 740x343]

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....


So you just like posting BS. Got ya.
 
2012-12-20 01:20:33 PM

DeathByGeekSquad: Charlie Chingas: We can prevent this by banning guns. There. Problem solved. You're welcome.

And fertilizer.
And accelerants.
And projectiles.
And blunt objects.
Any piercing objects.

There are always weapons.

At least with a gun you have a chance to stop/overwhelm the shooter, can't say the same for someone with a bomb.


Works for me. What ever it takes to make the world safe.
 
2012-12-20 01:21:09 PM

impaler: According to the CDC, in 2015 more 32,000 people will die from gunshot wounds than car accidents in the US for the first time ever  
 
FTFY
 
According to Bloomberg, this is less than gun fatalities.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-19/american-gun-deaths-to-exce ed -traffic-fatalities-by-2015.html 
 
[www.bloomberg.com image 620x413]


Based on that chart, it looks like it already happened -- in 1992. 
 
Assuming that trends are facts, of course...
 
2012-12-20 01:21:13 PM

RembrandtQEinstein: Exclude domestic violence incidents where one of the participants has either a violent criminal record or the police have been previously called to the residence more than once.


Why? That is the type of murder that often the victim cannot even avoid being in the "wrong place" for.

BunkoSquad: And whatever else you have to exclude to make it look like I'm right.


Ah.
 
2012-12-20 01:21:23 PM

homarjr: WhoopAssWayne: I wrote all of my congress members this morning, and for the first time, joined the NRA.

Obama must not be permitted to exploit the deaths of these children for his own self-serving, anti-rights agenda.

[bradycenter.org image 740x343]

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....


That image was out of date as of 2009. All homicides, including homicides committed with use of firearms, are in decline both in rate and in absolute number.
 
2012-12-20 01:21:43 PM

Giltric: Until we legalize eutanasia just let the people in pain have access to guns because when they try to kill themselves other ways...they only maim or cripple themselves.

Have some compassion.


What's a eut?
 
2012-12-20 01:22:15 PM

Endive Wombat: Don't Troll Me Bro!: and a little more passively.


You know how I know you do not live in NoVa/DC metro area?


No kidding. The new HOT lanes have loosened up congestion but it just gives everyone more room to work and at higher speed. I got to work 10 minutes quicker today but it was more stressful than usual as there were extra "gap closers" and tailgaters.
 
2012-12-20 01:22:19 PM

DeathByGeekSquad: Charlie Chingas: We can prevent this by banning guns. There. Problem solved. You're welcome.

And fertilizer.
And accelerants.
And projectiles.
And blunt objects.
Any piercing objects.

There are always weapons.

At least with a gun you have a chance to stop/overwhelm the shooter, can't say the same for someone with a bomb.


And for the 99.5% of the American population who will NOT have a gun, they should be taught that they should consider themselves already dead and that when confronted they should seek to do as much harm to that person as possible. Mass shootings end when the shooter is confronted by people who realize there are more of them than the shooter, and use anything they can to do very bad things to the guy with the gun.
 
2012-12-20 01:22:26 PM

justGreg: bacongood: Earguy: To be fair, this is also a reflection of the trend to safer cars as the older unsafe ones age off the roads. Cars are getting safer to the point that "insurance adjuster" is a job that is in decline.

To be fair, this is about 99% safer car and 1% guns.

Somebody could probably make an argument that the "99% safer cars" thing is related to governmental intrusion, with things like safety requirements, mandatory licensing based on driver training, and so forth. They might even suggest that some of the same sort of actions could be taken regarding guns and it might produce an analogous result.


Historically restrictions on gun ownership in the US have done little to curb violence. In no small part because the vast majority of gun deaths are either with illegally owned guns or suicides
 
2012-12-20 01:23:07 PM

homarjr: /Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....


That guns murder?
 
2012-12-20 01:23:41 PM

BEER_ME_in_CT: 200 IN CANADA?? They must all be hunting accidents right?


Mostly Nova Scotian separatists. Those boys are hard-core.
 
2012-12-20 01:23:57 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: FTFA: "Every day, 85 Americans are shot dead, about 53 of them in suicides."
 
So are we to assume that of the 53 people that off themselves, some would not find another means if a gun was not available?


No, we are to assume that 32 people are lousy shots at close range...
 
2012-12-20 01:24:10 PM

homarjr: WhoopAssWayne: I wrote all of my congress members this morning, and for the first time, joined the NRA.

Obama must not be permitted to exploit the deaths of these children for his own self-serving, anti-rights agenda.

[bradycenter.org image 740x343]

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....


Notice how the South American countries aren't listed? Central American countries aren't listed? We're in the cartel drug corridor.
 
2012-12-20 01:25:02 PM

homarjr: WhoopAssWayne: I wrote all of my congress members this morning, and for the first time, joined the NRA.

Obama must not be permitted to exploit the deaths of these children for his own self-serving, anti-rights agenda.

[bradycenter.org image 740x343]

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....


Guns don't kill people. People kill guns. From outlaws.
 
2012-12-20 01:25:02 PM

dittybopper: Actually, a more *HONEST* metric would be to compare accidental vehicle deaths with accidental firearms deaths.

Also, it's not the CDC saying it: It's Bloomberg Government, using CDC data. Bloomberg Government is at least partly controlled by Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who is one of the biggest anti-gun personalities out there.

I'd trust their manipulation of the data about as far as I'd trust Mayor Mike with my gun collection.

For those on the other side, this is about as credible as you would trust the NRA with CDC data.


It even says in the chart that the chart is based on CDC data that was completed by Bloomberg.,

Was the CDCs data not complete? How could that be?

Is that the same Bolomberg who said noone is complaining about the soft drink restrictions?....Baghdad Bob Bloomberg.
 
2012-12-20 01:25:03 PM

homarjr: WhoopAssWayne: I wrote all of my congress members this morning, and for the first time, joined the NRA.

 
Obama must not be permitted to exploit the deaths of these children for his own self-serving, anti-rights agenda.

[bradycenter.org image 740x343]

 
/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....
 
That this is a useless chart that does not take into account population size?
 
2012-12-20 01:25:14 PM
Death by firearms isn't even in the top 15 causes of death in this country. The data that backs this up is in this document from the CDC.

Deaths: Preliminary Data for 2011

The 15 leading causes of death in 2011 (Table B) were as follows:
1 Diseases of heart
2 Malignant neoplasms
3 Chronic lower respiratory diseases
4 Cerebrovascular diseases
5 Accidents (unintentional injuries)
6 Alzheimer's disease
7 Diabetes mellitus
8 Influenza and pneumonia
9Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis
10 Intentional self-harm (suicide)
11 Septicemia
12 Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis
13 Essential hypertension and hypertensive renal disease
14 Parkinson's disease
15 Pneumonitis due to solids and liquids

From another site I see that, with #10 suicide, it is estimated that 50% of suicides is by gun. I'm OK with that as long as they kill themselves before moving on to innocent victims.
 
2012-12-20 01:25:26 PM
This is really hard to believe given that Asians are the fastest growing race in the nation right now. All those Asian females added to the population I would expect the car deaths to outpace the gun deaths. But that might be offset by all the dying members of the "greatest generation" who will no longer be insisting they can still drive and be independent even if they have 8 pairs of glasses and big button TV remotes. But then I guess you have to look at the fact that cars are getting safer and safer every year, so all those deaths caused by DWA are going to come down quite a bit. Perhaps this has more to do with the fact that there are no "safe" guns, so the course becomes clear: make cars less safe and increase the speed limit. Have a few beers, get behind the wheel and do your part to make that gun number seem low and protect the Constitution.
 
2012-12-20 01:25:46 PM

computerguyUT: Lets see....population increasing = number of deaths increasing


That is true. They should be using death rates.
 
Their '10 year average' for extrapolation is arbitrary as well. If they used a '4 year average, they could predict the end to all auto-related fatalities in just 14 years.
 
2012-12-20 01:26:15 PM

Snargi: Death by firearms isn't even in the top 15 causes of death in this country. The data that backs this up is in this document from the CDC.


Trauma - like GSWs that are not intentionally self-inflicted - falls under the category of Accidents (Unintentional Injuries)
 
2012-12-20 01:26:53 PM

homarjr: WhoopAssWayne: I wrote all of my congress members this morning, and for the first time, joined the NRA.

Obama must not be permitted to exploit the deaths of these children for his own self-serving, anti-rights agenda.

[bradycenter.org image 740x343]

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....

.
In the UK violent crime is through the roof, four hundred precent higher than the US. In the US we have a bunch of dead would be criminals and Obama wants to change that. Link Thanks for posting.
 
2012-12-20 01:28:32 PM

RembrandtQEinstein: Show me the relevant stats.

Exclude the people who are involved in the drug trade.
Exclude suicides.
Exclude domestic violence incidents where one of the participants has either a violent criminal record or the police have been previously called to the residence more than once.

This statistic is as bullshiat as the "drunk" driving statistic where they count the incident as "alcohol related" if a sober driver hits a drunk pedestrian or if the diver is sober but the passenger is intoxicated.


I don't have it broken down to the level you want for the nation but here are some national numbers in greater detail:

pdf: Link

xls Link

Those would be the homicides only.
 
2012-12-20 01:30:34 PM

voltOhm: So the CDC is freaking psychic now? It's not even 2013 yet. The fear Mongers are working overtime on this one. The funny thing is the people spouting this nonsense are the same people that are pro-population control through abortions. Freaking cowardly idiots.


I wanted to say something snarky like "Math Republicans do to make themselves feel better", but I can't make it fit.

Can you set me up with a better straight line next time?
 
2012-12-20 01:32:18 PM

BronyMedic: DeathByGeekSquad: Charlie Chingas: We can prevent this by banning guns. There. Problem solved. You're welcome.

And fertilizer.
And accelerants.
And projectiles.
And blunt objects.
Any piercing objects.

There are always weapons.

At least with a gun you have a chance to stop/overwhelm the shooter, can't say the same for someone with a bomb.

And for the 99.5% of the American population who will NOT have a gun, they should be taught that they should consider themselves already dead and that when confronted they should seek to do as much harm to that person as possible. Mass shootings end when the shooter is confronted by people who realize there are more of them than the shooter, and use anything they can to do very bad things to the guy with the gun.


Ever consider what it would like to be in your line of work if schools no longer become the hot target? Cause an accident, wait for the emergency crews to swarm the site, detonate. The public horror of the individuals society pushes up on hero pedestals being picked off as they do their sworn duty.

You can almost hear the media salivating at the thought of the ratings bump, as they prepare news segments providing clear timelines on how to replicate the process for future homegrown bombers.

/legal guns aren't the problem
//just as video games aren't the problem
 
2012-12-20 01:32:45 PM
I bet it would look different if you broke it down by ethnicity. I suspect the hip-hop gun culture has played a role in much of the gun violence.
 
2012-12-20 01:33:42 PM

homarjr: WhoopAssWayne: I wrote all of my congress members this morning, and for the first time, joined the NRA.

Obama must not be permitted to exploit the deaths of these children for his own self-serving, anti-rights agenda.

[bradycenter.org image 740x343]

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....


9484 guns were murdered in one year? Won't somebody think of the guns?
 
2012-12-20 01:35:06 PM
We can fix this.  We just need a national campaign to encourage text messaging on the road.
 
2012-12-20 01:35:16 PM
According to Wiki the US has on of the lowest per capita homicide rates on the planet Link

And according to Harvard gun control is counter productive Link

And the Vatican is the most dangerous country on the planet Link

If only there were an ignore button for obvious facts.
 
2012-12-20 01:36:47 PM
FTFA:

Every day, 85 Americans are shot dead, about 53 of them in suicides. This figure is still lower than 1993's peak in gun deaths (37,666), but has risen significantly since firearm deaths reached a low in 2000 (28,393). The data goes back to 1979.

Read more: http://politics.kfyi.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed =104668&article=10651348#ixzz2FcPSyGMg


So, basically, of the 85 people shot dead, 53 of them are suffering from mental issues that could be solved by seeking help from a licensed healthcare professional, maybe as some sort of program to increase the viability and availability of mental health care, cutting the number of deaths in half?
 
2012-12-20 01:37:12 PM

kieran57: RembrandtQEinstein: Show me the relevant stats.

Exclude the people who are involved in the drug trade.
Exclude suicides.
Exclude domestic violence incidents where one of the participants has either a violent criminal record or the police have been previously called to the residence more than once.

This statistic is as bullshiat as the "drunk" driving statistic where they count the incident as "alcohol related" if a sober driver hits a drunk pedestrian or if the diver is sober but the passenger is intoxicated.

Ok, so drug related violence and sucide are no longer crimes in this country? We aren't trying to reduce them anymore and we just get to ignore them? Awesome. Now that we all live in a crime free utopia, I guess you don't need that gun for self-defense anymore.


I think it's more that the drug trade people will get firearms even if you ban them; suicide folks will find another way to kill themselves; and in historic domestic violence incidents, a violent criminal history should lead to barring the person from obtaining a firearm.

Dropping the suicide stat makes sense (and is well over half of all gun deaths). The violent criminal history thing represents presumably preventable gun deaths--if these people aren't career criminals who can and will get guns if you take theirs away. Drug trade is a valid statistic, but it's not one we can affect. What's left is the unknown--the things we need to do something about or simply can't help, but we don't know which way they go.

Also some folks want to make drugs legal, thus decriminalizing the drug trade and making criminals with guns go find a new type of crime that's less visible and requires less security. Get them out of the general public so there's less murder from these people by taking away their incentive to murder.
 
2012-12-20 01:37:35 PM
www.ibiblio.org

What about car purposes?

Also, if I recall there was an article in the last few weeks here that stated less young people are getting a car or even a driver's license. So it would make sense to project less drivers and therefore less accidents. Especially since that age group tends to be higher risk for accidents.
 
2012-12-20 01:38:04 PM

BronyMedic:

Trauma - like GSWs that are not intentionally self-inflicted - falls under the category of Accidents (Unintentional Injuries)


Shouldn't that include car accidents?
 
2012-12-20 01:38:17 PM

DeathByGeekSquad: BronyMedic: DeathByGeekSquad: Charlie Chingas: We can prevent this by banning guns. There. Problem solved. You're welcome.

And fertilizer.
And accelerants.
And projectiles.
And blunt objects.
Any piercing objects.

There are always weapons.

At least with a gun you have a chance to stop/overwhelm the shooter, can't say the same for someone with a bomb.

And for the 99.5% of the American population who will NOT have a gun, they should be taught that they should consider themselves already dead and that when confronted they should seek to do as much harm to that person as possible. Mass shootings end when the shooter is confronted by people who realize there are more of them than the shooter, and use anything they can to do very bad things to the guy with the gun.

Ever consider what it would like to be in your line of work if schools no longer become the hot target? Cause an accident, wait for the emergency crews to swarm the site, detonate. The public horror of the individuals society pushes up on hero pedestals being picked off as they do their sworn duty.

You can almost hear the media salivating at the thought of the ratings bump, as they prepare news segments providing clear timelines on how to replicate the process for future homegrown bombers.

/legal guns aren't the problem
//just as video games aren't the problem


So, illegal guns are responsible for the latest gun tragedies?
 
2012-12-20 01:40:06 PM

david_gaithersburg: homarjr: WhoopAssWayne: I wrote all of my congress members this morning, and for the first time, joined the NRA.

Obama must not be permitted to exploit the deaths of these children for his own self-serving, anti-rights agenda.

[bradycenter.org image 740x343]

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....
.
In the UK violent crime is through the roof, four hundred precent higher than the US. In the US we have a bunch of dead would be criminals and Obama wants to change that. Link Thanks for posting.


Well at least our murder rate is 4 times higher.
 
2012-12-20 01:41:34 PM

david_gaithersburg: According to Wiki the US has on of the lowest per capita homicide rates on the planet Link


That's not what it says at all.  Are you illiterate or just Fark's least competent troll?
 
2012-12-20 01:44:16 PM

impaler: According to the CDC, in 2015 more 32,000 people will die from gunshot wounds than car accidents in the US for the first time ever

FTFY

According to Bloomberg, this is less than gun fatalities.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-19/american-gun-deaths-to-exce ed -traffic-fatalities-by-2015.html

[www.bloomberg.com image 620x413]


based on FBI data (http://www.ucrdatatool.gov/Search/Crime/State/TrendsInOneVar.cfm) the murder rate has been steadily decreasing since 1994, and kept decreasing even after the "assault" weapons ban expired, so if the increase in the CDC table is correct I would assume the difference is increased suicides (which seems to be the case, see http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?page_id=04ea1254-bd31-1fa3-c549d77e6ca6a a37)

the highest suicide rates are among older people, and as the population ages i would assume that the gunshot suicide deaths would increase as well, more than offsetting the long term decrease in murder rates

note that switzerland, for example, has similar gun ownership levels as the US but a much lower murder rate, so there are other factors in play

what i find surprising, and maybe a little odd, is the sudden decrease in car deaths: it looks like something got changed in the definition perhaps
 
2012-12-20 01:45:49 PM

Charlie Chingas: DeathByGeekSquad: BronyMedic: DeathByGeekSquad: Charlie Chingas: We can prevent this by banning guns. There. Problem solved. You're welcome.

And fertilizer.
And accelerants.
And projectiles.
And blunt objects.
Any piercing objects.

There are always weapons.

At least with a gun you have a chance to stop/overwhelm the shooter, can't say the same for someone with a bomb.

And for the 99.5% of the American population who will NOT have a gun, they should be taught that they should consider themselves already dead and that when confronted they should seek to do as much harm to that person as possible. Mass shootings end when the shooter is confronted by people who realize there are more of them than the shooter, and use anything they can to do very bad things to the guy with the gun.

Ever consider what it would like to be in your line of work if schools no longer become the hot target? Cause an accident, wait for the emergency crews to swarm the site, detonate. The public horror of the individuals society pushes up on hero pedestals being picked off as they do their sworn duty.

You can almost hear the media salivating at the thought of the ratings bump, as they prepare news segments providing clear timelines on how to replicate the process for future homegrown bombers.

/legal guns aren't the problem
//just as video games aren't the problem

So, illegal guns are responsible for the latest gun tragedies?


Guns obtained illegally by the shooter, yeah.
 
2012-12-20 01:45:51 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: homarjr: WhoopAssWayne: I wrote all of my congress members this morning, and for the first time, joined the NRA.

Obama must not be permitted to exploit the deaths of these children for his own self-serving, anti-rights agenda.

[bradycenter.org image 740x343]

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....

That this is a useless chart that does not take into account population size?


Even if you take care of population size, there is a drop:

YEAR GUND GUNR CARD CARR
2000 28663 10.19 43604 15.49
2001 29537 10.38 43987 15.44
2002 30242 10.51 45579 15.85
2003 30136 10.29 44929 15.49
2004 29568 10.10 45113 15.41
2005 30694 10.39 45520 15.4
2006 30896 10.35 45509 15.25
2007 31224 10.37 44128 14.65
2008 31593 10.39 39973 13.14
2009 31347 10.22 36399 11.87
2010 31672 10.26 35498 11.5

GUND = Gun Deaths
GUNR = Gun Death Rate per 100,000
CARD = Car Deaths
CARR = Car Death Rate per 100,000.

See how the car death rate drops like a rock right around 2007? Fewer people were driving because they lost their cars:
U.S. Car Fleet Shrinks by Four Million in 2009

The only way that trend of car deaths going below gun deaths is possible is if the economy continues to tank. If we have the recovery we all hope for, more people will be on the roads in more cars, and they will bounce back up.
 
2012-12-20 01:45:57 PM
In 1863, more people died from car accidents than gunshot wounds?
 
2012-12-20 01:46:15 PM
Ever is a long time there subs.
How about the years before automobiles?
 
2012-12-20 01:46:30 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: homarjr: WhoopAssWayne: I wrote all of my congress members this morning, and for the first time, joined the NRA.

Obama must not be permitted to exploit the deaths of these children for his own self-serving, anti-rights agenda.

[bradycenter.org image 740x343]

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....

That this is a useless chart that does not take into account population size?


Even per capita the numbers are astoundingly not in our favor.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate
 
2012-12-20 01:47:07 PM

halfof33: I do seem to recall that there was a huge pile up on the I-6 just about the same time that the Battle of Antietam was going on.


Thread is over!
 
2012-12-20 01:48:26 PM

you have pee hands: david_gaithersburg: According to Wiki the US has on of the lowest per capita homicide rates on the planet Link

That's not what it says at all.  Are you illiterate or just Fark's least competent troll?


Did you read it? 4.1 per 100,000 is pretty farking low, lower than many place in your glorious EU.
 
2012-12-20 01:49:16 PM

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Earguy: To be fair, this is also a reflection of the trend to safer cars as the older unsafe ones age off the roads. Cars are getting safer to the point that "insurance adjuster" is a job that is in decline.

Also, the end of insanely cheap gasoline has made people drive a little less often, and a little more passively.


Your comment in conjunction with your name lends itself to irony.
 
2012-12-20 01:50:18 PM

bim1154: Don't Troll Me Bro!: Earguy: To be fair, this is also a reflection of the trend to safer cars as the older unsafe ones age off the roads. Cars are getting safer to the point that "insurance adjuster" is a job that is in decline.

Also, the end of insanely cheap gasoline has made people drive a little less often, and a little more passively.

This and this ^


Only rich and powerful people should be able to drive whenever they want. Us plebs should know and accept our lowly position in life.

Ban car bullying!
 
2012-12-20 01:51:41 PM

Voiceofreason01: Magorn:
Know how I know you don't know how extrapolation, trend lines, math, and the CDC work?

you know how I know that you don't?

/you can't simply take a trend line and extend it forever into the future and expect an accurate prediction


imgs.xkcd.com

Oblig.
 
2012-12-20 01:52:11 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Rational person: good news, we've implemented safety design standards in cars such that people aren't getting killed in car accidents as much!

Person with a political agenda: Guns is killing more people than cars! Wharnargle


Thread over.
 
2012-12-20 01:52:13 PM

david_gaithersburg: you have pee hands: david_gaithersburg: According to Wiki the US has on of the lowest per capita homicide rates on the planet Link

That's not what it says at all.  Are you illiterate or just Fark's least competent troll?

Did you read it? 4.1 per 100,000 is pretty farking low, lower than many place in your glorious EU.


Europe as a whole has a homicide rate of 3.5 per 100,000. We're not that far off that number, despite having more civilian guns per capita than any other nation in the World.
 
2012-12-20 01:52:52 PM

david_gaithersburg: According to Wiki the US has on of the lowest per capita homicide rates on the planet Link
.


LOL wut? Compared to some starving sub-Saharan African countries maybe. Not compared to the countries that we should be compared to:

Japan 0.3
Germany 0.8
Italy 0.9
UK 1.2
Canada 1.6
USA 4.2

There are 97 countries on that list with a lower homicide rate, including Iraq, Israel, and Afghanistan. We have a homicide problem, and your link verifies it.

/USA - We're number 98!
 
2012-12-20 01:54:56 PM

dittybopper: See how the car death rate drops like a rock right around 2007? Fewer people were driving because they lost their cars:

U.S. Car Fleet Shrinks by Four Million in 2009

The only way that trend of car deaths going below gun deaths is possible is if the economy continues to tank. If we have the recovery we all hope for, more people will be on the roads in more cars, and they will bounce back up.



The auto death rate has dropped a lot faster than the number of miles driven.  Cars and roads keep getting safer; the effect of a bullet on a person is pretty much static.
 
2012-12-20 01:55:12 PM

Charlie Chingas: We can prevent this by banning guns. There. Problem solved. You're welcome.

 
Fortunately the criminal types are such law abidding citizens who will happily turn in their illegal weapons when the ban takes affect.  You're a farking genius!
 
2012-12-20 01:55:25 PM

justGreg: david_gaithersburg: According to Wiki the US has on of the lowest per capita homicide rates on the planet Link
.

LOL wut? Compared to some starving sub-Saharan African countries maybe. Not compared to the countries that we should be compared to:

Japan 0.3
Germany 0.8
Italy 0.9
UK 1.2
Canada 1.6
USA 4.2

There are 97 countries on that list with a lower homicide rate, including Iraq, Israel, and Afghanistan. We have a homicide problem, and your link verifies it.

/USA - We're number 98!


The deadliest place on earth is actually on our border.
 
2012-12-20 01:58:58 PM

justGreg: david_gaithersburg: According to Wiki the US has on of the lowest per capita homicide rates on the planet Link
.

LOL wut? Compared to some starving sub-Saharan African countries maybe. Not compared to the countries that we should be compared to:

Japan 0.3
Germany 0.8
Italy 0.9
UK 1.2
Canada 1.6
USA 4.2

There are 97 countries on that list with a lower homicide rate, including Iraq, Israel, and Afghanistan. We have a homicide problem, and your link verifies it.

/USA - We're number 98!


There are 106 on that list with a higher rate than the US. But they don't count much because they don't fit your criteria, right? It seems to me that the world has a homicide problem, not just the US.
 
2012-12-20 02:00:28 PM

you have pee hands: Cars and roads keep getting safer; the effect of a bullet on a person is pretty much static.


The effect of a specific kind of bullet on a person is static. Our bullets have changed a lot, though - from powdered musket balls to 7.62 FMJ and beyond - and each type has a slightly different effect. To say nothing of hollow points, composition of the round(/jacket), the type of powder used and how much, the weight/shape of the round...
 
// I'm sure you knew all that, just pointing it out
// just as a Model T, driven today on a dirt road, is just as safe as it was in the 1920s
 
2012-12-20 02:00:45 PM

My BRAND!: Don't Troll Me Bro!: Earguy: To be fair, this is also a reflection of the trend to safer cars as the older unsafe ones age off the roads. Cars are getting safer to the point that "insurance adjuster" is a job that is in decline.

Also, the end of insanely cheap gasoline has made people drive a little less often, and a little more passively.

Your comment in conjunction with your name lends itself to irony.


He's actually correct: The gun death *RATE* in the US has stayed pretty stable over the last decade, at around 10.3 per 100,000. The raw numbers crept higher, because we've added millions of people in population. That's why we use rates instead of raw numbers.

The car death rate stayed pretty even also at an average of about 15.5, until the economy started tanking in 2007. Fewer cars on the road, because fewer people were driving to work, and fewer people *OWNED* cars, resulted in a major drop in the rate.

I posted the raw numbers and rates in a previous post, and I got them directly from the CDC WISQARS page.
 
2012-12-20 02:00:51 PM

david_gaithersburg: Did you read it? 4.1 per 100,000 is pretty farking low, lower than many place in your glorious EU.


In Europe, it's lower than a bunch of former Soviet Bloc countries and ... Greenland.
 
I'm not sure why you'd bother to lie about the contents of a wiki article.  We're hooked up to the same internet.  I'm looking at the same numbers you're looking at.
 
2012-12-20 02:02:21 PM

voltOhm: So the CDC is freaking psychic now? It's not even 2013 yet. The fear Mongers are working overtime on this one. The funny thing is the people spouting this nonsense are the same people that are pro-population control through abortions. Freaking cowardly idiots.


Now that's how you troll.

We've got it all here folks. Random capitalization, ad hominem attacks, pants on the head stupidity, and the turd is deposited right out of the gate.
 
2012-12-20 02:04:08 PM

homarjr: ]

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....


bradycenter.org

Those numbers are misleading. Give me the percentage of gun murders BY population of each of those countries.
 
2012-12-20 02:05:07 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: I need to hit them up for some stock tips.

 
I'd invest heavily in the feral boar meat sector.
 
2012-12-20 02:05:20 PM
Let's bring back the ban on bayonet lugs and pistol grips, that will address the problem!
 
2012-12-20 02:06:43 PM

OgreMagi: Charlie Chingas: We can prevent this by banning guns. There. Problem solved. You're welcome.

Fortunately the criminal types are such law abidding citizens who will happily turn in their illegal weapons when the ban takes affect.  You're a farking genius!


Solving the world's problems one at a time.
 
2012-12-20 02:06:50 PM

Dr Dreidel: The effect of a specific kind of bullet on a person is static. Our bullets have changed a lot, though - from powdered musket balls to 7.62 FMJ and beyond - and each type has a slightly different effect. To say nothing of hollow points, composition of the round(/jacket), the type of powder used and how much, the weight/shape of the round...


Yeah.  I guess I should be more specific, since what I'm really referring to is the kinds of bullets that civilians have used to kill other unarmored civilians with over the last 20-40 years, rather than a long term historical comparison or any comment on military advancements.
 
2012-12-20 02:11:52 PM

Snargi: Death by firearms isn't even in the top 15 causes of death in this country. The data that backs this up is in this document from the CDC.


Don't be fatuous. Everyone is supposed to die eventually. Most deaths occur to old people. We aren't talking about "death control," we're talking about "murder control." The gun is the #1-by-a-long-shot weapon of choice for murder and suicide in this country.

There are, it may surprise you to know, also people working quite diligently on dropping the rate of cancer, heart disease, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and other disease-related deaths as well.
 
2012-12-20 02:11:58 PM

Shrugging Atlas: voltOhm: So the CDC is freaking psychic now? It's not even 2013 yet. The fear Mongers are working overtime on this one. The funny thing is the people spouting this nonsense are the same people that are pro-population control through abortions. Freaking cowardly idiots.

Now that's how you troll.

We've got it all here folks. Random capitalization, ad hominem attacks, pants on the head stupidity, and the turd is deposited right out of the gate.


The CDC is trolling us?
 
2012-12-20 02:12:10 PM

you have pee hands: dittybopper: See how the car death rate drops like a rock right around 2007? Fewer people were driving because they lost their cars:

U.S. Car Fleet Shrinks by Four Million in 2009

The only way that trend of car deaths going below gun deaths is possible is if the economy continues to tank. If we have the recovery we all hope for, more people will be on the roads in more cars, and they will bounce back up.


The auto death rate has dropped a lot faster than the number of miles driven.  Cars and roads keep getting safer; the effect of a bullet on a person is pretty much static.


There haven't been any major noticeable improvements in either vehicle safety or road safety that you can point to that account for the sudden drop.

On the other hand, easing congestion by removing millions of vehicles off the road can have benefits out of proportion to the raw numbers, if the roads were at or above safe handling capacity and are now significantly below it.
 
2012-12-20 02:13:52 PM

Dr Dreidel:
// I'm sure you knew all that, just pointing it out
// just as a Model T, driven today on a dirt road, is just as safe as it was in the 1920s


Your argument is invalid.

That Model T is not at risk of only running into other vehicles capable of a top speed of 40mph. It would now be sharing the road with other much heavier vehicles capable of much greater speeds. Including aggressive, angry drivers in 4x4s that get stuck behind it. Or oncoming traffic who can't see the Model T because of it's woefully poor lighting. Or the Model T's inability to stop in a short enough distance when traveling behind a vehicle with modern brakes.

// I'm sure you knew all that, just pointing it out
 
2012-12-20 02:14:12 PM

Snargi: homarjr: ]

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....

[bradycenter.org image 740x343]

Those numbers are misleading. Give me the percentage of gun murders BY population of each of those countries.


FTFY. Murdered is murdered. If you just count gun homicides, than a country that where the preferred method of homicide is the gun is going to look worse than a country that has an overall higher homicide rate, but a very low *GUN* homicide rate.
 
2012-12-20 02:16:15 PM

Olfin Bedwere: justGreg: david_gaithersburg: According to Wiki the US has on of the lowest per capita homicide rates on the planet Link
.

LOL wut? Compared to some starving sub-Saharan African countries maybe. Not compared to the countries that we should be compared to:

Japan 0.3
Germany 0.8
Italy 0.9
UK 1.2
Canada 1.6
USA 4.2

There are 97 countries on that list with a lower homicide rate, including Iraq, Israel, and Afghanistan. We have a homicide problem, and your link verifies it.

/USA - We're number 98!


There are 106 on that list with a higher rate than the US. But they don't count much because they don't fit your criteria, right? It seems to me that the world has a homicide problem, not just the US.


Hey, if you draw great solace and internal peace from having a lower murder rate than El Salvador and Uganda then good on you. I would have thought most Americans aspired to a higher standing in the global community, but whatever.
 
2012-12-20 02:16:16 PM
unless gunshots are now spec'd as "lead poisoning" how is the CDC a credible source?

\Canadian eh?
\\Walking Dead showed me why not to go to Atlanta
 
2012-12-20 02:21:08 PM

Snargi: homarjr: ]

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....

[bradycenter.org image 740x343]

Those numbers are misleading. Give me the percentage of gun murders BY population of each of those countries.


Finland 0.45
Australia 0.14
England and Wales 0.07
Spain 0.2
Germany 0.19
Canada 0.51
USA 2.97

Does that help?
 
2012-12-20 02:23:06 PM
My comment was really dicky.

//I'm sure I know that. Just pointing it out to myself

:-P
 
2012-12-20 02:23:57 PM
How do those numbers work when you remove suicides?
 
2012-12-20 02:24:39 PM

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: It's not the first time ever; I'm sure this was the case before cars were invented as well. But there is also more here than just "gun violence will destroy us all"... but I'm pretty sure we'll hear what they are.


I read an abstract by someone who looked at causes of death before the automobile. Which answered the question, why did society tolerate the carnage caused by automobiles? Turns out horses, trains, and trolleys are dangerous. Apparently significant numbers of people died in rail accidents up until the 1950's Fatalities that were mostly replaced by automobile accidents. Granted modern airplanes and passenger rail are very safe, much safer than cars.

One nice thing about guns, you can significantly reduce your risk by not owning one. And further by not associating with people that do.
 
2012-12-20 02:25:08 PM

sweetmelissa31: I'd invest heavily in the feral boar meat sector.

 
Actually, I would invest in an outfitting company like these guys did. (Check the video link. You might be surprised at what you see)
 
2012-12-20 02:26:34 PM

Pangea: That Model T is not at risk of only running into other vehicles capable of a top speed of 40mph. It would now be sharing the road with other much heavier vehicles capable of much greater speeds. Including aggressive, angry drivers in 4x4s that get stuck behind it. Or oncoming traffic who can't see the Model T because of it's woefully poor lighting. Or the Model T's inability to stop in a short enough distance when traveling behind a vehicle with modern brakes.

// I'm sure you knew all that, just pointing it out


Considering the Model T isn't "street legal" in modern times without modifications to make it so (exhaust, braking, airbags/seatbelts, etc), none of those really matters. Hell, get 9 Model Ts together on a dirt racetrack to "simulate" the driving conditions in 1920. Besides which, none of the things you mentioned have much to do with the car or the road specifically (which is what I said), or have the same risks as they did then (other drivers not being able to see the Model T, for example).
 
Or don't, as we've sufficiently picked apart the metaphor as to lose all meaning.
 
// and you have pee hands: I wasn't trying to be a pedantic dick, but succeeded anyway
 
2012-12-20 02:27:15 PM

EngineerAU: What? This is an outrage! We must solve this by removing the CDC's funding!

Link


I was not aware of this until a couple of days ago. I therefore now know the NRA (and probably a good portion of its membership) isn't just a knuckle-dragging mouth-breathing inconvenience on the American social and political scene, they're downright malicious and - on a certain level, given how reliable data would ultimately help save lives - CRUEL.
 
2012-12-20 02:27:43 PM

justGreg: Olfin Bedwere: justGreg: david_gaithersburg: According to Wiki the US has on of the lowest per capita homicide rates on the planet Link
.

LOL wut? Compared to some starving sub-Saharan African countries maybe. Not compared to the countries that we should be compared to:

Japan 0.3
Germany 0.8
Italy 0.9
UK 1.2
Canada 1.6
USA 4.2

There are 97 countries on that list with a lower homicide rate, including Iraq, Israel, and Afghanistan. We have a homicide problem, and your link verifies it.

/USA - We're number 98!

There are 106 on that list with a higher rate than the US. But they don't count much because they don't fit your criteria, right? It seems to me that the world has a homicide problem, not just the US.

Hey, if you draw great solace and internal peace from having a lower murder rate than El Salvador and Uganda then good on you. I would have thought most Americans aspired to a higher standing in the global community, but whatever.


I don't "draw great solace" from it at all. We can obviously do better as a nation. Still, cherry picking statistics by saying you can only compare the US rate to a handful of other countries doesn't seem to be very helpful to me, and that's what you're doing. Still, it's a free country, and if that's what you want to do, then good on you.
 
2012-12-20 02:27:54 PM

BronyMedic: Snargi: Death by firearms isn't even in the top 15 causes of death in this country. The data that backs this up is in this document from the CDC.

Trauma - like GSWs that are not intentionally self-inflicted - falls under the category of Accidents (Unintentional Injuries)


You have a valid point but there are innumerable ways to die by accident and we see lots of articles on Fark every year that chronicle bizarre ways to accidentally die.

To break it down further:

From the same CDC doc. pg. 42, Table 2.

In 2011: There were 122,777 deaths by accidents (unintentional injuries) of which accidental discharge of firearms caused 851.

That is only 0.6931265627927055% of the total dead by accident (unintentional injury) killed by firearms. Not even one percent.
 
2012-12-20 02:29:14 PM

dittybopper: There haven't been any major noticeable improvements in either vehicle safety or road safety that you can point to that account for the sudden drop.

 
On the other hand, easing congestion by removing millions of vehicles off the road can have benefits out of proportion to the raw numbers, if the roads were at or above safe handling capacity and are now significantly below it.
 
That's true, it's mostly just been incremental improvements.  Given that the average car is on the road for 10-15 years it's almost impossible to have any kind of drastic rate drop due to just cars in a couple years anyway, there just isn't that much turnover.  The number of miles driven only dropped 3-4% though, it'd be a little surprising to me to see a 25% drop in fatalities from a drop in congestion that small though there could be a tipping point in there.  The fatality rate per mile driven has been dropping pretty steadily for 45 years, though.  Maybe this is what we should expect and the relatively flatter rate drop in the early 00s is more of the anomaly.
 
2012-12-20 02:34:04 PM

justGreg: Snargi: homarjr: ]

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....

[bradycenter.org image 740x343]

Those numbers are misleading. Give me the percentage of gun murders BY population of each of those countries.

Finland 0.45
Australia 0.14
England and Wales 0.07
Spain 0.2
Germany 0.19
Canada 0.51
USA 2.97

Does that help?


Actually, it does. But seeing those numbers doesn't have the same shock value which is why the Brady Campaign didn't use percentages for their graphic.
 
2012-12-20 02:35:57 PM
So.. the Center For Disease Control has spoken for something that isn't a disease.

What's next. The IRS slapping handcuffs on shoplifters?
 
2012-12-20 02:36:22 PM
Not if we arm school teachers and lock up all the mentally ill people we can find!
 
2012-12-20 02:36:29 PM
 
2012-12-20 02:39:14 PM

DeathByGeekSquad: Charlie Chingas: We can prevent this by banning guns. There. Problem solved. You're welcome.

And fertilizer.
And accelerants.
And projectiles.
And blunt objects.
Any piercing objects.

There are always weapons.

At least with a gun you have a chance to stop/overwhelm the shooter, can't say the same for someone with a bomb.


The deadliest school massacre in US history occurred in 1927, killed 38 elementary-school students and six adults, and injured 58 others.

No guns were used.
 
2012-12-20 02:49:19 PM

Olfin Bedwere: justGreg: Olfin Bedwere: justGreg: david_gaithersburg: According to Wiki the US has on of the lowest per capita homicide rates on the planet Link
.

LOL wut? Compared to some starving sub-Saharan African countries maybe. Not compared to the countries that we should be compared to:

Japan 0.3
Germany 0.8
Italy 0.9
UK 1.2
Canada 1.6
USA 4.2

There are 97 countries on that list with a lower homicide rate, including Iraq, Israel, and Afghanistan. We have a homicide problem, and your link verifies it.

/USA - We're number 98!

There are 106 on that list with a higher rate than the US. But they don't count much because they don't fit your criteria, right? It seems to me that the world has a homicide problem, not just the US.

Hey, if you draw great solace and internal peace from having a lower murder rate than El Salvador and Uganda then good on you. I would have thought most Americans aspired to a higher standing in the global community, but whatever.

I don't "draw great solace" from it at all. We can obviously do better as a nation. Still, cherry picking statistics by saying you can only compare the US rate to a handful of other countries doesn't seem to be very helpful to me, and that's what you're doing. Still, it's a free country, and if that's what you want to do, then good on you.


Are you just being intentionally obtuse? I stated that we are 98th on the list, so the full context is there. And comparing us directly to other G8 nations is not cherry-picking, it is entirely normal and useful.
 
2012-12-20 02:50:41 PM

hasty ambush: Does the CDC tell us how many of those who will be shot had it coming?

For example:

A female hotel clerk confronted by a known criminal who put a knife to her throat found the courage and the ability to deny his attempted rape-she shot him


No, they don't:

5.1.1b Intent Categories
...
Homicide - injuries inflicted by another person with intent to injure or kill, by any means. Excludes injuries due to legal intervention and operations of war. Justifiable homicide is not identified in WISQARS.
 
2012-12-20 02:50:46 PM

Cybernetic: DeathByGeekSquad: Charlie Chingas: We can prevent this by banning guns. There. Problem solved. You're welcome.

And fertilizer.
And accelerants.
And projectiles.
And blunt objects.
Any piercing objects.

There are always weapons.

At least with a gun you have a chance to stop/overwhelm the shooter, can't say the same for someone with a bomb.

The deadliest school massacre in US history occurred in 1927, killed 38 elementary-school students and six adults, and injured 58 others.

No guns were used.


What the media doesn't tell you: that was no school, and those were not kids. they were midgets and they were secretly making cocaine.
 
2012-12-20 02:50:59 PM

neversubmit: begun car wars have


ADQ represent!
 
2012-12-20 02:51:02 PM

factoryconnection: Snargi: Death by firearms isn't even in the top 15 causes of death in this country. The data that backs this up is in this document from the CDC.

Don't be fatuous. Everyone is supposed to die eventually. Most deaths occur to old people. We aren't talking about "death control," we're talking about "murder control." The gun is the #1-by-a-long-shot weapon of choice for murder and suicide in this country.

There are, it may surprise you to know, also people working quite diligently on dropping the rate of cancer, heart disease, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and other disease-related deaths as well.


Why are these still legal?
scm-l3.technorati.com
 
2012-12-20 02:52:55 PM

DeathByGeekSquad: Ever consider what it would like to be in your line of work if schools no longer become the hot target? Cause an accident, wait for the emergency crews to swarm the site, detonate. The public horror of the individuals society pushes up on hero pedestals being picked off as they do their sworn duty.

You can almost hear the media salivating at the thought of the ratings bump, as they prepare news segments providing clear timelines on how to replicate the process for future homegrown bombers.


You're talking about something that we've known about, and trained people from the dispatch level to the individual provider level, for years to recognize, because those bad people in the Middle East do it all the time. It happened a few days ago in MO when someone sniped an MO State Trooper while he was helping EMS.
 
You act like because it doesn't make the news, it doesn't happen.
 
And it still doesn't make me any more likely to carry anything other than the F-S combat knife I carry already.
 
2012-12-20 02:53:49 PM

gibbon1: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: It's not the first time ever; I'm sure this was the case before cars were invented as well. But there is also more here than just "gun violence will destroy us all"... but I'm pretty sure we'll hear what they are.

I read an abstract by someone who looked at causes of death before the automobile. Which answered the question, why did society tolerate the carnage caused by automobiles? Turns out horses, trains, and trolleys are dangerous. Apparently significant numbers of people died in rail accidents up until the 1950's Fatalities that were mostly replaced by automobile accidents. Granted modern airplanes and passenger rail are very safe, much safer than cars.

One nice thing about guns, you can significantly reduce your risk by not owning one. And further by not associating with people that do.


Can you show statistics without suicide?
 
2012-12-20 02:55:21 PM

Cybernetic: The deadliest school massacre in US history occurred in 1927, killed 38 elementary-school students and six adults, and injured 58 others.

No guns were used.


It's also the reason why you can't buy demolitions-grade explosives without a license. Oddly enough, very few elementary schools have been blown up since then. Plenty of abortion clinics using black powder pipe bombs, though.
 
2012-12-20 02:55:32 PM

BronyMedic: DeathByGeekSquad: Ever consider what it would like to be in your line of work if schools no longer become the hot target? Cause an accident, wait for the emergency crews to swarm the site, detonate. The public horror of the individuals society pushes up on hero pedestals being picked off as they do their sworn duty.

You can almost hear the media salivating at the thought of the ratings bump, as they prepare news segments providing clear timelines on how to replicate the process for future homegrown bombers.

You're talking about something that we've known about, and trained people from the dispatch level to the individual provider level, for years to recognize, because those bad people in the Middle East do it all the time. It happened a few days ago in MO when someone sniped an MO State Trooper while he was helping EMS.

You act like because it doesn't make the news, it doesn't happen.

And it still doesn't make me any more likely to carry anything other than the F-S combat knife I carry already.


Do you even have a choice?
 
2012-12-20 02:58:38 PM

StoPPeRmobile: Do you even have a choice?

 

Yes and no. It depends on your service you work for. Many of the third services, like county based, will allow you to carry if you're a commissioned law enforcement officer unofficially, but you really keep it on the down-low if you do it. If you're Law Enforcement based, they will demand you are a reserve before you do so.
 
Private services generally will not only prohibit you from carrying even with a permit, but fire you if they find out you're packing a firearm because it's a massive legal liability for them.
 
To be honest, I wouldn't want to carry a pistol on me while on duty for the simple fact that there's a high chance a mental patient, or patient trying to flee from custody would take it away and use it against me and my partner while we were caring for them.
 
2012-12-20 02:59:03 PM

StoPPeRmobile: factoryconnection: Snargi: Death by firearms isn't even in the top 15 causes of death in this country. The data that backs this up is in this document from the CDC.

 
Don't be fatuous. Everyone is supposed to die eventually. Most deaths occur to old people. We aren't talking about "death control," we're talking about "murder control." The gun is the #1-by-a-long-shot weapon of choice for murder and suicide in this country.
 
There are, it may surprise you to know, also people working quite diligently on dropping the rate of cancer, heart disease, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and other disease-related deaths as well.
 
Why are these still legal?
[scm-l3.technorati.com image 360x285]

 
Because these are not available year round.
 
i45.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-20 02:59:43 PM

Pants full of macaroni!!: Still waiting for those "super-predators" we were promised.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-20 03:04:06 PM

justGreg: Snargi: homarjr: ]

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....

[bradycenter.org image 740x343]

Those numbers are misleading. Give me the percentage of gun murders BY population of each of those countries.

Finland 0.45
Australia 0.14
England and Wales 0.07
Spain 0.2
Germany 0.19
Canada 0.51
USA 2.97

Does that help?


I'm not sure...are you saying 3% of the US population dies from a firearms related homicde each year?

That would be like 10 million people a year.......
 
2012-12-20 03:04:50 PM

BronyMedic: StoPPeRmobile: Do you even have a choice?

Yes and no. It depends on your service you work for. Many of the third services, like county based, will allow you to carry if you're a commissioned law enforcement officer unofficially, but you really keep it on the down-low if you do it. If you're Law Enforcement based, they will demand you are a reserve before you do so.

Private services generally will not only prohibit you from carrying even with a permit, but fire you if they find out you're packing a firearm because it's a massive legal liability for them.

To be honest, I wouldn't want to carry a pistol on me while on duty for the simple fact that there's a high chance a mental patient, or patient trying to flee from custody would take it away and use it against me and my partner while we were caring for them.


Thanks.
 
2012-12-20 03:08:38 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: FTFA: "Every day, 85 Americans are shot dead, about 53 of them in suicides."

So are we to assume that of the 53 people that off themselves, some would not find another means if a gun was not available?


Nope...no way. If guns were unavailable people could not kill themselves. That's why in China and Japan, two large countries that strictly prohibit private gun ownership or possession, have suicide rates a fraction of that of the US.

Oh wait...they each off themselves at twice our rate even without access to guns? Unpossible!!!
 
2012-12-20 03:09:19 PM

StoPPeRmobile: Thanks.


It's not a problem. I can tell you right now of an on-duty firefighter in my hometown who keeps a full-frame 1911 strapped under his shirt when he's on duty (dude's massive in every meaning of the word).
 
They don't discourage it, but they don't encourage it either.
 
2012-12-20 03:10:10 PM
So? Then jump in yer car and go out and kill some people, it's better than sitting home griping about it.

Jeez, you people; always expect the other guy to do the dirty work.

What a bunch of wussies.
 
2012-12-20 03:12:18 PM

Giltric: justGreg: Snargi: homarjr: ]

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....

[bradycenter.org image 740x343]

Those numbers are misleading. Give me the percentage of gun murders BY population of each of those countries.

Finland 0.45
Australia 0.14
England and Wales 0.07
Spain 0.2
Germany 0.19
Canada 0.51
USA 2.97

Does that help?

I'm not sure...are you saying 3% of the US population dies from a firearms related homicde each year?

That would be like 10 million people a year.......


I believe that's out fault.
US Virgin Islands here. Between Us (60 per 100k) and Puerto Rico (50 per 100k) we're probably hammering that statistic.

/Yes, both areas have strict gun bans.
/Unless we're not counted as US citizens... which would make me feel rather insulted, you fascist statistic analyzing bastards.
 
2012-12-20 03:12:42 PM
we should ban firearms
we should ban automobiles
we should ban chairs
we should ban food
 
2012-12-20 03:15:16 PM

Giltric: justGreg: Snargi: homarjr: ]

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....

[bradycenter.org image 740x343]

Those numbers are misleading. Give me the percentage of gun murders BY population of each of those countries.

Finland 0.45
Australia 0.14
England and Wales 0.07
Spain 0.2
Germany 0.19
Canada 0.51
USA 2.97

Does that help?

I'm not sure...are you saying 3% of the US population dies from a firearms related homicde each year?

That would be like 10 million people a year.......


Sorry, ambiguously presented. That is firearms related homicide per 100,000 people. So per capita, but not percentage (unless you move the decimal a couple of places).
 
2012-12-20 03:16:03 PM

olddinosaur: So? Then jump in yer car and go out and kill some people, it's better than sitting home griping about it.

Jeez, you people; always expect the other guy to do the dirty work.

What a bunch of wussies.


lulz
 
2012-12-20 03:16:16 PM

Giltric: I'm not sure...are you saying 3% of the US population dies from a firearms related homicde each year?

That would be like 10 million people a year.......



I think those are firearms deaths per 100K people. The ratios are about right. Generally the US has about 8 - 10 times the rate of firearms deaths per capita of Japan, who is usually dead last.
 
2012-12-20 03:21:29 PM

RembrandtQEinstein: Show me the relevant stats.

 
Exclude the people who are involved in the drug trade.
Exclude suicides.
Exclude domestic violence incidents where one of the participants has either a violent criminal record or the police have been previously called to the residence more than once.

 
This statistic is as bullshiat as the "drunk" driving statistic where they count the incident as "alcohol related" if a sober driver hits a drunk pedestrian or if the diver is sober but the passenger is intoxicated.
 
So if we exclude the top three major categories of gun violence the statistic becomes bullshiat?  good to know.  Remove all the automobile fatalities where someone was speeding while you're at it
 
2012-12-20 03:32:23 PM
I will just let everyone know that the reason for that this past year the US has seen the lowest levels of automobile accidents since 1949... and have dropped 25% since 1995...   http://www.nbcnews.com/business/us-traffic-deaths-lowest-level-1949-7 6 0537
 
"And knowing is half the battle"
 
2012-12-20 03:45:08 PM
I wonder what those 15,000 annual suiciders will take care of business when they don't have access to guns. A close relative told me she planned on crossing over the center line and head on into a 18 wheeler. She decided not to do it, fortunately.
 
2012-12-20 03:45:54 PM

fireclown: Pants full of macaroni!!: Still waiting for those "super-predators" we were promised.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 350x350]


s10.postimage.org
 
2012-12-20 03:51:00 PM

kombat_unit: I wonder what those 15,000 annual suiciders will take care of business when they don't have access to guns. A close relative told me she planned on crossing over the center line and head on into a 18 wheeler. She decided not to do it, fortunately.


Ranges.

I'm sure they are getting ready to ban those though.
 
2012-12-20 03:52:28 PM
We need to get serious and tough with new gun laws. Sweeping legislation, along with increased law enforcement and tougher penalties for people with illegal firearms. It's the only way to eradicate this menace. The President needs to lead the way.
We could call it the "War on Guns"

That should work.
 
2012-12-20 03:55:30 PM
A good measure to see if safety improvements (airbags, seatbelts, etc.) have caused the down-turn in vehicle related deaths, or if it's the economy causing people to drive less, is to look at the motor vehicle related pedestrian deaths: They won't be effected by car safety improvements, but would be by fewer vehicles on the road.

Low and behold, they've dropped like a rock:
YEAR DEAD RATE
2006: 5,021 1.68
2007: 4,820 1.60
2008: 4,489 1,48
2009: 4,190 1.34
2010: 4,383 1.42

As of 2010, the rate is 15% lower than it was before the recession hit, and it was as low as 20% down off the 2006 peak in 2009.
 
2012-12-20 04:02:47 PM

kombat_unit: I wonder what those 15,000 annual suiciders will take care of business when they don't have access to guns. A close relative told me she planned on crossing over the center line and head on into a 18 wheeler. She decided not to do it, fortunately.


I hear that's all the rage on the Autobahn.

Personally I more worry what the next sick fascination will be among spree shooters when imitating COD is no longer the popular thing.

/The other half of the planet likes to settle its scores with bombs.
 
2012-12-20 04:04:22 PM
Every day, 85 Americans are shot dead, about 53 of them in suicides.

So, in other words, 53 people who would otherwise hang themselves, overdose on pills, or find some other way to kill themselves every day have been included in this study to skew the numbers the way the CDC wants them to appear.

Come back to me with numbers that don't include suicides by car or gun and we'll talk.
 
2012-12-20 04:05:33 PM

way south: kombat_unit: I wonder what those 15,000 annual suiciders will take care of business when they don't have access to guns. A close relative told me she planned on crossing over the center line and head on into a 18 wheeler. She decided not to do it, fortunately.

I hear that's all the rage on the Autobahn.

Personally I more worry what the next sick fascination will be among spree shooters when imitating COD is no longer the popular thing.

/The other half of the planet likes to settle its scores with bombs.


And remote drones. Don't forget the drones.
 
2012-12-20 04:08:29 PM

GnomePaladin: Voiceofreason01: Magorn:
Know how I know you don't know how extrapolation, trend lines, math, and the CDC work?

you know how I know that you don't?

/you can't simply take a trend line and extend it forever into the future and expect an accurate prediction

Two years is forever? I guess if you believe the rapture is nigh...


The last actual data they had was from 2011, so they were actually projecting out 4 years from the last data point.

But there are other more important faults with their methodology. They only used the last 10 years of data to establish the rates of increase or decline in death rates. They threw 22 years of data away. They assumed the rates of change were linear and just did a simple least squares fit to come up with the rates. Even Excel can do a better job with a few mouse clicks. Finally they completely disregarded the underlying economic conditions that effect the rates. In case you forgot, the economy has been bad and getting worse for the entire period they used to estimate the change in rates of death. Lack of money and increased gas prices reduce the number of miles driven. It wouldn't be very hard to show statistically that people who have lost their jobs, their homes, their savings, or all three are at a significantly higher risk of suicide. Bad economic times also increase crime rates.

I don't doubt that eventually gun deaths will eventually outpace automobile deaths, especially given the automatic collision avoidance systems that are coming, but it isn't going to be in 3 years.
 
2012-12-20 04:12:10 PM

neversubmit: begun car wars have

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 850x585]


www.sjgames.com 
 
I just received and installed my Existential Blue Crayon Gun, so bring it on.
 
2012-12-20 04:15:13 PM

kombat_unit: I wonder what those 15,000 annual suiciders will take care of business when they don't have access to guns. A close relative told me she planned on crossing over the center line and head on into a 18 wheeler. She decided not to do it, fortunately.


Personally, If I ever need to end my suffering, my current plan is to eat rib-eye steak and lobster with drawn butter until my heart explodes.
 
2012-12-20 04:29:19 PM

kombat_unit


I wonder what those 15,000 annual suiciders will take care of business when they don't have access to guns. A close relative told me she planned on crossing over the center line and head on into a 18 wheeler. She decided not to do it, fortunately.


If she changes her mind, tell her to use a big tree in the middle of nowhere. There is no point in ruining the truck driver's life or making people sit in construction traffic 'cause she ran into a bridge.
 
2012-12-20 04:44:00 PM

Stone Meadow: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: FTFA: "Every day, 85 Americans are shot dead, about 53 of them in suicides."

So are we to assume that of the 53 people that off themselves, some would not find another means if a gun was not available?

Nope...no way. If guns were unavailable people could not kill themselves. That's why in China and Japan, two large countries that strictly prohibit private gun ownership or possession, have suicide rates a fraction of that of the US.

Oh wait...they each off themselves at twice our rate even without access to guns? Unpossible!!!


You know what the advantage of gun suicides is? Unlike the assholes who walk in front of a train, it doesn't interfere with my commute.
 
2012-12-20 04:47:06 PM

This text is now purple: You know what the advantage of gun suicides is? Unlike the assholes who walk in front of a train, it doesn't interfere with my commute.


They won't flatten your ass as you walk down the sidewalk either.
 
2012-12-20 05:01:05 PM
No, I don't care about the means of suicide. I care about suicide rates, of course, and the causes of suicide in particular.

And I certainly don't care about gang members killing other gang members. They're scum. They can die in one or more fires for all I care.

What amazes me is the tolerance Statists have for the State's contribution to traffic deaths. It owns the roads, designs them, builds them, sets the rules of their use, and creates the system for their enforcement. As if that weren't enough, it has assumed complete control over the safety features of cars.

If any other person or group had that level of control over premises, the mode of its use and other factors of its design, where 35,000 people were killed every year, people would notice.

If the self-serve drink machines at McDonald's exploded so routinely, for example, killing 100 people per day, people would not react by only and always blaming customers for user error. The group in control of the entire environment would be expected to make changes.

But not the State. Traffic deaths on its roads, in cars it helps design, kill more people in all age groups under age 45.

What gets all the attention? Guns.

A far larger number of first graders died in traffic this month alone than died in Newtown.

Statists do not care about saving lives. It's obvious. If they did, they would devote more time to traffic control instead of gun control, since it poses a far more serious problem.
 
2012-12-20 05:02:26 PM
A great day for traffic safety.
 
2012-12-20 05:23:40 PM

This text is now purple: You know what the advantage of gun suicides is? Unlike the assholes who walk in front of a train, it doesn't interfere with my commute.

After due consideration I have rejected gun suicide for myself. If I do it inside the house my braaaaiins will make a gross mess splattering on the wall/ceiling. If I do it outside the dogs will eat what's left of me...ick!
 
2012-12-20 05:32:42 PM

dittybopper: A good measure to see if safety improvements (airbags, seatbelts, etc.) have caused the down-turn in vehicle related deaths, or if it's the economy causing people to drive less, is to look at the motor vehicle related pedestrian deaths: They won't be effected by car safety improvements, but would be by fewer vehicles on the road.

Low and behold, they've dropped like a rock:
YEAR DEAD RATE
2006: 5,021 1.68
2007: 4,820 1.60
2008: 4,489 1,48
2009: 4,190 1.34
2010: 4,383 1.42

As of 2010, the rate is 15% lower than it was before the recession hit, and it was as low as 20% down off the 2006 peak in 2009.



So what you're saying is, if there is less of something around that can cause deaths, the death toll drops?
Interesting.
 
2012-12-20 05:35:54 PM
Think of it this way:

Guns are designed to kill. Alcohol is designed for fun. Yet, they rate closely in cause of death.

So, what's REALLY more dangerous? Fun. Must ban fun.
 
2012-12-20 05:38:46 PM

Phinn: No, I don't care about the means of suicide. I care about suicide rates, of course, and the causes of suicide in particular.

And I certainly don't care about gang members killing other gang members. They're scum. They can die in one or more fires for all I care.

What amazes me is the tolerance Statists have for the State's contribution to traffic deaths. It owns the roads, designs them, builds them, sets the rules of their use, and creates the system for their enforcement. As if that weren't enough, it has assumed complete control over the safety features of cars.

If any other person or group had that level of control over premises, the mode of its use and other factors of its design, where 35,000 people were killed every year, people would notice.

If the self-serve drink machines at McDonald's exploded so routinely, for example, killing 100 people per day, people would not react by only and always blaming customers for user error. The group in control of the entire environment would be expected to make changes.

But not the State. Traffic deaths on its roads, in cars it helps design, kill more people in all age groups under age 45.

What gets all the attention? Guns.

A far larger number of first graders died in traffic this month alone than died in Newtown.

Statists do not care about saving lives. It's obvious. If they did, they would devote more time to traffic control instead of gun control, since it poses a far more serious problem.


Comparing vehicular deaths to gun related deaths is disingenuous. Many people couldn't function without a vehicle. Vehicles are necessary to a large portion of society. I couldn't get to work and be a productive member of society without a car. I do just fine without a gun.
 
2012-12-20 05:42:38 PM
Is the Unlikely tag on holiday? or drunk on egg-nog?

While we're talking about deaths, how about the 250,000-300,000 deaths per year CAUSED by doctors and hospitals?
 
2012-12-20 05:44:18 PM

My BRAND!: I couldn't get to work and be a productive member of society without a car.


The fark you can't. People do it all the time. Take the bus or move closer to work. Problem solved. It's funny how people stop caring about the children as soon as they are asked to make a small sacrifice.

Newsflash: saving you a couple of minutes on your commute isn't more important than the lives of children. Deal with it.
 
2012-12-20 05:49:29 PM

A Shambling Mound: Cars have not yet reached a point that they avoid collisions by themselves


Vehicle Stability Control, Anti-lock brakes, Traction Control, Radar-based active cruise control, and modern all-weather tires  (to name a few) all beg to differ.  They all help cars avoid certain collisions on their own in a matter of speaking.  They turn major collisions into minor ones, and minor ones into near misses.  
 
Sure, many people are distracted, aggressive idiots behind the wheel and we'll have plenty of work for insurance adjusters as long as humans are allowed to retain complete control of the wheel, brake and accelerator, but modern cars do A LOT more for safety than just reduce injuries in crashes.
 
2012-12-20 05:54:36 PM

dittybopper: A good measure to see if safety improvements (airbags, seatbelts, etc.) have caused the down-turn in vehicle related deaths, or if it's the economy causing people to drive less, is to look at the motor vehicle related pedestrian deaths: They won't be effected by car safety improvements, but would be by fewer vehicles on the road.

Low and behold, they've dropped like a rock:
YEAR DEAD RATE
2006: 5,021 1.68
2007: 4,820 1.60
2008: 4,489 1,48
2009: 4,190 1.34
2010: 4,383 1.42

As of 2010, the rate is 15% lower than it was before the recession hit, and it was as low as 20% down off the 2006 peak in 2009.


The reduction in total miles driven from the peak was 3-4%, so that by itself isn't enough to explain a 20% drop in pedestrian fatalities.  Car safety could still help, though I guess it's hard to know for sure.  Better headlights make it easier to see people at night.  Better brakes and tires make it easier to avoid them.  Backup cameras might make people less likely to back over children their driveway which is probably recorded as a pedestrian death.  Still, those things have only improved incrementally in the last few years.
 
2012-12-20 05:55:24 PM

umad: My BRAND!: I couldn't get to work and be a productive member of society without a car.

The fark you can't. People do it all the time. Take the bus or move closer to work. Problem solved. It's funny how people stop caring about the children as soon as they are asked to make a small sacrifice.

Newsflash: saving you a couple of minutes on your commute isn't more important than the lives of children. Deal with it.


Are you being intentionally stupid, or are you not aware of how you sound?

Do you think it would be completely feasible for everyone to just move closer to work and/or use mass transit? The sheer volume of people shifting from rural to urban areas would cause catastrophic crowding issues. Or as you would have people use mass transit...oh wait, the vast portion of effective and accessible means of mass transit are located in already population dense areas. You know, cities.

This isn't Sim City. You don't get to build a business and plop down housing next to it. The US is a vast territory, and not everyone can live within walking or biking distance of their place of employment or even to the nearest bus stop.
 
2012-12-20 05:56:29 PM

dittybopper: hasty ambush: Does the CDC tell us how many of those who will be shot had it coming?

For example:

A female hotel clerk confronted by a known criminal who put a knife to her throat found the courage and the ability to deny his attempted rape-she shot him

No, they don't:

5.1.1b Intent Categories
...
Homicide - injuries inflicted by another person with intent to injure or kill, by any means. Excludes injuries due to legal intervention and operations of war. Justifiable homicide is not identified in WISQARS.


Then what point is the CDC trying to make? As the number of people increasee it only stands to reason that thenumber of them that need killing will also increase.
 
2012-12-20 06:16:07 PM

My BRAND!: Are you being intentionally stupid, or are you not aware of how you sound?


Sure. Call me names because you can't handle my argument.

Do you think it would be completely feasible for everyone to just move closer to work and/or use mass transit? The sheer volume of people shifting from rural to urban areas would cause catastrophic crowding issues. Or as you would have people use mass transit...oh wait, the vast portion of effective and accessible means of mass transit are located in already population dense areas. You know, cities.

So you're telling me that people are doing the exact thing you claimed they can't? Why shouldn't everybody live closer to mass transit? Is your house in the hills more important than the lives of children? NO. Like I said before, you guys only care when you aren't the ones being inconvenienced. We all need to sacrifice to make the world a better place.

This isn't Sim City. You don't get to build a business and plop down housing next to it. The US is a vast territory, and not everyone can live within walking or biking distance of their place of employment or even to the nearest bus stop.

Citation needed. We solved that problem a long time ago with a little invention you may have heard of. They're called skyscrapers. We can have thousands of people living on a single city block now. You don't need your penis extension murder machine just so you can live in a bigger house by commuting from the suburbs. Driving should be left to the trained professionals like taxi and bus drivers. Our stats make it plainly obvious that the average person can't handle the responsibility required.

But just keep telling yourself that your comfort is more important than the lives of children. People like you are monsters.
 
2012-12-20 06:25:40 PM

umad: My BRAND!: Are you being intentionally stupid, or are you not aware of how you sound?

Sure. Call me names because you can't handle my argument.

Do you think it would be completely feasible for everyone to just move closer to work and/or use mass transit? The sheer volume of people shifting from rural to urban areas would cause catastrophic crowding issues. Or as you would have people use mass transit...oh wait, the vast portion of effective and accessible means of mass transit are located in already population dense areas. You know, cities.

So you're telling me that people are doing the exact thing you claimed they can't? Why shouldn't everybody live closer to mass transit? Is your house in the hills more important than the lives of children? NO. Like I said before, you guys only care when you aren't the ones being inconvenienced. We all need to sacrifice to make the world a better place.

This isn't Sim City. You don't get to build a business and plop down housing next to it. The US is a vast territory, and not everyone can live within walking or biking distance of their place of employment or even to the nearest bus stop.

Citation needed. We solved that problem a long time ago with a little invention you may have heard of. They're called skyscrapers. We can have thousands of people living on a single city block now. You don't need your penis extension murder machine just so you can live in a bigger house by commuting from the suburbs. Driving should be left to the trained professionals like taxi and bus drivers. Our stats make it plainly obvious that the average person can't handle the responsibility required.

But just keep telling yourself that your comfort is more important than the lives of children. People like you are monsters.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-12-20 06:34:12 PM

homarjr: What happened in the early 90s vs the late 90s in terms of firearm deaths?


Crack wars petered out due to the fact that most of the particpants (spoiler: not exactly NRA types, but if Obama had a son, etc) were dead or in prison.
 
2012-12-20 06:37:34 PM

justGreg: Snargi: homarjr: ]

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....

[bradycenter.org image 740x343]

Those numbers are misleading. Give me the percentage of gun murders BY population of each of those countries.

Finland 0.45
Australia 0.14
England and Wales 0.07
Spain 0.2
Germany 0.19
Canada 0.51
USA 2.97

Does that help?


You can't have a first would nation with a third world population.
 
2012-12-20 06:47:22 PM
I wonder what effect "cash for clunkers" had on the auto-fatalities going down so drastically in '09.
 
2012-12-20 06:58:46 PM

impaler: I wonder what effect "cash for clunkers" had on the auto-fatalities going down so drastically in '09.


You mean because its effect on the used car market meant poor people (worse drivers) were less able to afford to drive? Well, maybe.
 
2012-12-20 07:14:41 PM

impaler: I wonder what effect "cash for clunkers" had on the auto-fatalities going down so drastically in '09.


Nice.
 
2012-12-20 08:03:53 PM
cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com

mission accomplished
 
2012-12-20 08:04:16 PM

homarjr: WhoopAssWayne: I wrote all of my congress members this morning, and for the first time, joined the NRA.

Obama must not be permitted to exploit the deaths of these children for his own self-serving, anti-rights agenda.

[bradycenter.org image 740x343]

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....


To be fair the population of those countries is much smaller than America, so taking raw numbers isn't an accurate measure. It's more accurate to look at the murder rates for each country - the number killed per 100,000.

/Although if you do that you still come out as the worst for gun deaths, last I checked
//and the worst for overall murder rate too
 
2012-12-20 08:26:43 PM

homarjr: WhoopAssWayne: I wrote all of my congress members this morning, and for the first time, joined the NRA.

Obama must not be permitted to exploit the deaths of these children for his own self-serving, anti-rights agenda.





/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....


Did all those guns get life in prison or were some able to find good lawyers to defend them?
 
2012-12-20 08:44:26 PM

My BRAND!: Comparing vehicular deaths to gun related deaths is disingenuous.


The fact that dead is dead makes them comparable.

But more specifically, what I'm comparing (or contrasting, actually) is the POLITICAL REACTION to traffic deaths versus the POLITICAL REACTION to gun deaths.

Statists go to every length imaginable to skew the statistics of gun deaths to make it appear that guns are the Greatest Problem Imaginable. They seize on people's worst moment to blind the public to reason, using dead kids and political bargaining chips. They blather on and on about gun deaths, but conveniently fail to mention that the overwhelming majority of them are either suicides or drug-dealing-gang-scum killing other gang-scum. They ignore the results of every other legislated prohibition in world history, and how it instantly created a black market, and other secondary harmful social effects (like the proliferation of gang-scum murders flowing from drug prohibition). Etc.

Meanwhile, there is a daily bloodbath occurring on the property that is owned and controlled by that very same government, a death toll equivalent to 4 Newtown Massacres per day. The State has control over this area of life, having designed and built the roads, dictated the terms of their use and enforcement methods, and the safety designs of the cars that people buy. This use of the government's property is the No. 1 cause of early death (apart from diseases of aging, poor diet and lack of exercise), and it has been that way for over 50 years, with minimal improvement.

What's disingenuous is the anti-gun Statist political-media machine, which ignores the problem that could be fixed without a loss of Constitutional liberty, which would save far more lives, and instead bleats endlessly about guns, a problem that it is incompetent to solve, and the "solution" for which will make the lives of millions of people worse.
 
2012-12-20 09:30:29 PM
Libs tend to fairly level headed about most issues; but something about guns make them go absolutely full retard. I voted Dem for the first time in 2012 but if this becomes a major issue for Dems I will switch back to voting straight republican.
 
hej
2012-12-20 09:36:03 PM

voltOhm: So the CDC is freaking psychic now? It's not even 2013 yet. The fear Mongers are working overtime on this one. The funny thing is the people spouting this nonsense are the same people that are pro-population control through abortions. Freaking cowardly idiots.


Apparently it's because of all the car control laws we've passed.
 
2012-12-20 09:50:06 PM

Gdalescrboz: Libs tend to fairly level headed about most issues; but something about guns make them go absolutely full retard. I voted Dem for the first time in 2012 but if this becomes a major issue for Dems I will switch back to voting straight republican.


NRA's money is well spent.
 
A7
2012-12-20 09:58:02 PM
I call Bullshiat!
1 - Medical mistakes, including Rx drug reactions are the 3rd, 4th or 5th leading cause of death in the US, depending on the study. The CDC should stick to matters it pretends to know about
2 - Latest figures from 2009 show that Deaths and injuries caused by guns rand 16 and 19 respectively.
3 - YOU and I are 8x more likely to be killed by a cop than by a terrorist.

If you want facts rather than propaganda, check out:
http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
 
2012-12-20 10:16:43 PM

homarjr: WhoopAssWayne: I wrote all of my congress members this morning, and for the first time, joined the NRA.

Obama must not be permitted to exploit the deaths of these children for his own self-serving, anti-rights agenda.

[bradycenter.org image 740x343]

/Not sure how accurate these numbers are, but I think you get the point....


And in one year 466 people per 100k in the US were victimized by violent crime. While in the UK the number skyrockets to 2,034 per 100k. 

Statistically in the US if you are not a male, young, black, and live in a large city in a neighborhood with a poverty level average income.......you are not in any serious danger of dying from a gunshot. Now obviously there is some level of risk for everyone, but when you compare the actual death statistics to the number of American homes which own guns safely.......

I can make the statement that a firearm is one of the safest things you can own if you are not a young black man in a poor neighborhood of a large city.

If you throw in gun laws in large cities and redo the numbers you can start to make statements like a firearm is the safest tool you can legally own.

Im not trying to throw a race bomb here, but I think the emphasis on the gun as the problem is leaving our at risk populations without adequate investigation into the real causes of those deaths.

Its just too easy to blame the gun when poverty and de-socialization are the real problems that drive young men to the criminal behavior that leads to gun deaths. 

Also, FARK, PLEASE FIX THE GODDAMN RIGHT CLICK TO SPELL CHECK PROBLEM IN THIS TEXT WINDOW! I dont want to paste, I want to spell check!
 
2012-12-20 10:24:39 PM

Holocaust Agnostic: Cars becoming radically safer isn't sad subby.


This. Easier to make cars safer than to make a heavily armed population less violent, but both are happening.

upload.wikimedia.org
pslarson2.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-20 10:41:53 PM


djkutch

Smartest
Funniest
2012-12-20 09:50:06 PM
Gdalescrboz: Libs tend to fairly level headed about most issues; but something about guns make them go absolutely full retard. I voted Dem for the first time in 2012 but if this becomes a major issue for Dems I will switch back to voting straight republican.

NRA's money is well spent.


Oh i see. People can vote on personal issues like abortion to gay rights; but if vote on an issues that directly affects every American negatively, I'm the bad guy. fark you schmuck
 
2012-12-20 10:55:06 PM

Gdalescrboz: Libs tend to fairly level headed about most issues; but something about guns make them go absolutely full retard. I voted Dem for the first time in 2012 but if this becomes a major issue for Dems I will switch back to voting straight republican.


As a liberal I'm entirely fine with trading universal health insurance for a small increase in gun deaths. Seriously, 40% lifetime chance of cancer, vs less than a tenth of a percent being shot to death.

\You get behind me, I'll get behind you.
 
2012-12-20 11:01:16 PM

gibbon1: Gdalescrboz: Libs tend to fairly level headed about most issues; but something about guns make them go absolutely full retard. I voted Dem for the first time in 2012 but if this becomes a major issue for Dems I will switch back to voting straight republican.

As a liberal I'm entirely fine with trading universal health insurance for a small increase in gun deaths. Seriously, 40% lifetime chance of cancer, vs less than a tenth of a percent being shot to death.

\You get behind me, I'll get behind you.


Where's all this money coming from?
 
2012-12-20 11:05:12 PM
gibbon1

Smartest
Funniest
2012-12-20 10:55:06 PM
Gdalescrboz: Libs tend to fairly level headed about most issues; but something about guns make them go absolutely full retard. I voted Dem for the first time in 2012 but if this becomes a major issue for Dems I will switch back to voting straight republican.

As a liberal I'm entirely fine with trading universal health insurance for a small increase in gun deaths. Seriously, 40% lifetime chance of cancer, vs less than a tenth of a percent being shot to death.

\You get behind me, I'll get behind you.


I'm all about healthcare. Where is this increase in gun deaths. They have declining for over a decade now. Unless you mean universal healthcare will cause more people to die from gun injuries, which is probably accurate
 
2012-12-20 11:40:02 PM
According to the CDC???

So gunshots and car accidents are now  "diseases"?

/The more you know...
 
2012-12-21 12:30:21 AM
just gonna leave this here.

Reality Check: Are calls for stricter gun laws really about guns

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cf0MO55kMsI
 
2012-12-21 01:59:55 AM
So CDC, how's that report on new methods of containing viral outbreaks coming along?

Oh I see you've been spending your time & money on doing things that have nothing to do with disease at all...

CDC, could you come into my office for a minute?
 
2012-12-21 04:39:20 AM

BronyMedic: voltOhm: So the CDC is freaking psychic now? It's not even 2013 yet. The fear Mongers are working overtime on this one. The funny thing is the people spouting this nonsense are the same people that are pro-population control through abortions. Freaking cowardly idiots.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 406x215]

Extrapolating data based on a cluster of outliers to push an agenda isn't math. It's just lying.
 
2012-12-21 08:51:42 AM

Gdalescrboz: Libs tend to fairly level headed about most issues.


Really? Not on Fark. But the same level of derp comes from Conservatives.
People have strong opinons on various issues, and rational discussion on boards like this tend to turn into a tard-fest.
I suspect if you took all the same people and put them together in a room, the discussions would be much more civil and constructive.
 
2012-12-21 09:35:20 AM

A7: 1 - Medical mistakes, including Rx drug reactions are the 3rd, 4th or 5th leading cause of death in the US, depending on the study. The CDC should stick to matters it pretends to know about
2 - Latest figures from 2009 show that Deaths and injuries caused by guns rand 16 and 19 respectively.
3 - YOU and I are 8x more likely to be killed by a cop than by a terrorist.


imgs.xkcd.com

Or are you actually insinuating that there is a massive coverup at the highest level of government to hide thousands of murderers in white coats?
 
2012-12-21 10:38:37 AM

Phinn: My BRAND!: Comparing vehicular deaths to gun related deaths is disingenuous.

The fact that dead is dead makes them comparable.

But more specifically, what I'm comparing (or contrasting, actually) is the POLITICAL REACTION to traffic deaths versus the POLITICAL REACTION to gun deaths.

Statists go to every length imaginable to skew the statistics of gun deaths to make it appear that guns are the Greatest Problem Imaginable. They seize on people's worst moment to blind the public to reason, using dead kids and political bargaining chips. They blather on and on about gun deaths, but conveniently fail to mention that the overwhelming majority of them are either suicides or drug-dealing-gang-scum killing other gang-scum. They ignore the results of every other legislated prohibition in world history, and how it instantly created a black market, and other secondary harmful social effects (like the proliferation of gang-scum murders flowing from drug prohibition). Etc.

Meanwhile, there is a daily bloodbath occurring on the property that is owned and controlled by that very same government, a death toll equivalent to 4 Newtown Massacres per day. The State has control over this area of life, having designed and built the roads, dictated the terms of their use and enforcement methods, and the safety designs of the cars that people buy. This use of the government's property is the No. 1 cause of early death (apart from diseases of aging, poor diet and lack of exercise), and it has been that way for over 50 years, with minimal improvement.

What's disingenuous is the anti-gun Statist political-media machine, which ignores the problem that could be fixed without a loss of Constitutional liberty, which would save far more lives, and instead bleats endlessly about guns, a problem that it is incompetent to solve, and the "solution" for which will make the lives of millions of people worse.


Seeing as you completely overlooked the point that I was making regarding desire for and necessity of cars vs. firearms, I'll ask you. Which do you think would throw the US, or any country for that matter, into more chaos; the complete and instant removal of all personal vehicles or firearms?
 
2012-12-21 12:36:40 PM

BronyMedic: Cybernetic: The deadliest school massacre in US history occurred in 1927, killed 38 elementary-school students and six adults, and injured 58 others.

No guns were used.

It's also the reason why you can't buy demolitions-grade explosives without a license. Oddly enough, very few elementary schools have been blown up since then. Plenty of abortion clinics using black powder pipe bombs, though.


And NYC Police Headquarters, and the Pentagon, and a townhouse in Greenwich Village. Don't forget about those.

/The left wing has politically-motivated psychotic nutjobs too.
 
2012-12-21 01:48:16 PM
I don't think we're exactly being intellectually honest when we include justifiable homicides (self defense), cop shootings, and suicides in with the "gun death" statistic.

There are less than 15k gun murders per year. LESS THAN HALF of car deaths.


You can't talk about numbers because the anti only says, self righteously, "ONE IS TOO MANY!!!"


Same thing with assault rifle murders. Around 400 total rifle/shotgun/assault rifle murders in a year. This year chicago had a RECORD 500 murders yet they have a total gun ban.


Even if you totally banned rifles, shotguns, and assault rifles... do you really think those people couldn't accomplish those murders with a handgun? Do they even make a dent? Doubtful. We should work on places like chicago where they have around 10x the murder rate of the rest of the country.


I know, I'm a big bad idiot redneck moron of a guy because I don't think banning something and trampling the rights of LITERALLY tens of millions of people is ok.


Even if you totally ban and confiscate all guns, they will still be out there and criminals will do what they do.


You know, that whole "I would rather see 10 guilty men walk than 1 innocent man executed" thing... I guess I"m weird.
 
2012-12-21 01:50:35 PM

BronyMedic: A7: 1 - Medical mistakes, including Rx drug reactions are the 3rd, 4th or 5th leading cause of death in the US, depending on the study. The CDC should stick to matters it pretends to know about
2 - Latest figures from 2009 show that Deaths and injuries caused by guns rand 16 and 19 respectively.
3 - YOU and I are 8x more likely to be killed by a cop than by a terrorist.

[imgs.xkcd.com image 500x271]

Or are you actually insinuating that there is a massive coverup at the highest level of government to hide thousands of murderers in white coats?


http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/10/26/prescri p tion-drugs-number-one-cause-preventable-death-in-us.aspx
 
2012-12-21 01:51:17 PM
Link


/now with more linky-pop
 
2012-12-21 03:30:37 PM

Mr.BobDobalita: Link


/now with more linky-pop


>Clicks Link.
>Joe Mercola Website.

Uh. Okay.

pictures.mastermarf.com

So, now that we've established that you believe insane AltMed Conspiracy Theorists, do you have any relatively reliable sources to go on?
 
2012-12-21 08:35:05 PM
Trends can change.  Teenage pregnancy is an example of this.
 
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