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(The Smoking Gun)   Confidential investigation by police and child welfare workers concludes sex-abuse charges against Michael Jackson "unfounded"   (thesmokinggun.com) divider line 159
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22760 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Dec 2003 at 1:29 PM (10 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2003-12-09 02:53:25 PM
Won't someone think of the children!

/hadtobesaid
 
2003-12-09 02:53:39 PM
I don't think Jackson is a predator. I do, however, think he is doing questionable things to little kids. Is he a criminal? Heck yes. Is he dangerous? Probably not.

Let me explain before I get jumped.

He's never lived in the real world. The success he's enjoyed meant that he never had to worry about paying bills. He could always have what he wanted. But he never got to be a kid and never lived in an environment where there was somebody telling him it was time to be a man. Hell, there wasn't anybody there who could even act as a role model. So he became a stunted kid with a kid's brain.

But he's got all this money and fame, and can't think very well for himself. He's also got all these adult "urges" and can't figure out how to act on them. So this stuff happens.

So no, I don't think he's a calculating, evil, predatory child molester. I do think he's opportunistic when the situation presents itself. With his wealth, he can create those opportunities easily, and probably with increasing frequency. I don't think he's hurting these kids physically, though mentally, he's likely tearing them up.

He isn't abusing his power, but at the same time, he is abusing the kids' love. But I think it is all unknowingly done--he probably does think he's being nice and friendly and loving. Mike just doesn't know how to act and has never been forced to be responsible. Reality for him must be vastly different than it is for the rest of us. Think about it...

Or it's because he's black and The Man doesn't like to see a black man makin' it. I can't decide.
 
2003-12-09 02:55:31 PM
Over the last 5 years or so, I've hung out periodically with a friend of mine's daughter (she's 17 now). My friend is divorced and her ex had a realy sweet (to him at least) visitation schedule, but left my friend with no free time on the weekends b/c she had her daughter. Anywho, to be nice, I would have her stay over my house occasionally or she would come with me to run errands, etc. She even went on vacation with me when she was 13. It was all very innocent. Fastforward to this whole Michael Jackson mess... Tina (the daughter) and I have had several laughs over our relationship and how, to an outsider, it could have looked "funny". I can only imagine if the tables had been turned and all of us involved were male instead of female.

Is it my imagination or are most of these sexual abuse incidents perpetrated by men?
 
2003-12-09 02:56:07 PM
When the number of people who stand to make money off of the public thinking he's guilty exceeds the number of people who would make money off of finding him innocent, I stop trusting anything other than hard evidence.

Just like with Kobe.
 
2003-12-09 02:59:49 PM
So if the kid says he's molested he's molested, and if he denies having been molested he was molested. Riiiiggghhhttt.
 
2003-12-09 03:01:07 PM
Maybe MJ didn't start assaulting the boy until AFTER this investigation concluded he wasn't assaulting the boy? Talk about an airtight alibi.

(no one's posted the "1/2 off" joke yet?)
 
2003-12-09 03:01:08 PM
I don't think Jackson is a predator. I do, however, think he is doing questionable things to little kids. Is he a criminal? Heck yes. Is he dangerous? Probably not.

Let me explain before I get jumped.

He's never lived in the real world. The success he's enjoyed meant that he never had to worry about paying bills. He could always have what he wanted. But he never got to be a kid and never lived in an environment where there was somebody telling him it was time to be a man. Hell, there wasn't anybody there who could even act as a role model. So he became a stunted kid with a kid's brain.

But he's got all this money and fame, and can't think very well for himself. He's also got all these adult "urges" and can't figure out how to act on them. So this stuff happens.

So no, I don't think he's a calculating, evil, predatory child molester. I do think he's opportunistic when the situation presents itself. With his wealth, he can create those opportunities easily, and probably with increasing frequency. I don't think he's hurting these kids physically, though mentally, he's likely tearing them up.

He isn't abusing his power, but at the same time, he is abusing the kids' love. But I think it is all unknowingly done--he probably does think he's being nice and friendly and loving. Mike just doesn't know how to act and has never been forced to be responsible. Reality for him must be vastly different than it is for the rest of us. Think about it...

Or it's because he's black and The Man doesn't like to see a black man makin' it. I can't decide.
 
2003-12-09 03:01:56 PM
AuntofDogface

I bet you drew the line at her sleeping in your bed with you.
 
2003-12-09 03:03:53 PM


I say give him a break!
 
2003-12-09 03:05:13 PM
JamesBong

Because we all know that a fully grown man spending the night in bed with kids is you know.. normal.

I have no way of saying whether or not MJ might be a good father figure for children, but even if he isn't, it would be hard for him to be worse than a father so abusive that the mother had a restraining order placed against him.

Now, a young child who has endured abuse from his father and who has gone through the living hell of cancer treatment would probably be dying for affection of some sort, no matter the source, and if he already liked MJ (there is no accounting for taste) then it seems natural that he might become emotionally attached to him.

Meanwhile MJ is eager for people who are willing to spend time with him like a normal human and is being kind and caring enough to provide a father-like figure for the child. Which could easily involve all of the things he's known to have done with the children.

Now, I have had female friends with whom there has been a very deep mutual friendship with no sexual connotations, to the degree that we didn't mind changing in front of one another, or sharing the same bed and cuddling up next to one another. There was never any sexual tension, it was just friendship. Now, what I've had to deal with with people refusing to believe that I'm 'just friends' with someone like that is a completely different story.
 
2003-12-09 03:06:49 PM
What's the difference between Neil Armstrong and Michael Jackson? Neil Armstrong "Walked on the Moon". Michael Jackson "Farks little boys up the ass"
 
2003-12-09 03:06:49 PM
Rich people should be able to do whatever they want, it's the American way.
 
2003-12-09 03:09:16 PM
2003-12-09 03:01:56 PM missmez
AuntofDogface

I bet you drew the line at her sleeping in your bed with you.
*******************
Hell, no!!! She was in a sleeping bag on the floor next to my bed, and has since "graduated" to the couch. When we were on vacation, it was separate beds!! (in retrospect, I still can't believe I was "allowed" to take her out of the country...)
 
2003-12-09 03:10:51 PM
Actually, that "hell, no" probably should have been a "hell, yeah". Either way, I WOULD NEVER DREAM OF SHARING A BED WITH A CHILD!!!
 
2003-12-09 03:11:02 PM
I said in a thread way back that this was a shakedown.
 
2003-12-09 03:11:47 PM
Is MJ about to release a new album or something?

Because that seems to be the marketing gimmick Du Jour...advertising through scandal. It's free, and it gets your face all over the globe.
 
2003-12-09 03:15:38 PM
I had suspected this case was trumped up since I learned about the family's history. What i find shocking is that ANY parent would let their kid sleep with him, especially after the last scandal. If you're a parent letting your kid sleep with MJ, you're either a) very stupid or b) you're hoping for a big payout. Or maybe you just hate your kids.
 
2003-12-09 03:16:30 PM
Rik01

The preschool scandal you are referring to was the Mcmartin abuse trials. That was quite sad what happened. I didn't understand why the investigators tried so hard to hang them. But looking at this thread gives some insight

When it comes to child abuse most people are very sensitive and unforgiving. Even hardened criminals in prison who have rejected our society still have extremely harsh views towards child abusers. And as we saw in the Mcmartin trials and this thread, people can go too far.

It's a good thing to be protective of our children. It's another to allow yourself to be blinded with rage so the only thing you want to do is hang and kill. Try to relax and let our justice system do its job. Most of the time it works.

And thanks for the long post. Helps to lengthen my already fragile attention span.
 
2003-12-09 03:17:07 PM
I thought public lynchings were passe' - I guess not...
 
2003-12-09 03:18:14 PM
I think Michael Jackson still thinks of himself as a little boy. Emotionally, he's probably about 10 years old, looking for playmates. I don't think he's even discovered girls yet.

*clink clink*
 
2003-12-09 03:19:02 PM
I don't think Jackson is a predator. I do, however, think he is doing questionable things to little kids. Is he a criminal? Heck yes. Is he dangerous? Probably not.

Let me explain before I get jumped.

He's never lived in the real world. The success he's enjoyed meant that he never had to worry about paying bills. He could always have what he wanted. But he never got to be a kid and never lived in an environment where there was somebody telling him it was time to be a man. Hell, there wasn't anybody there who could even act as a role model. So he became a stunted kid with a kid's brain.

But he's got all this money and fame, and can't think very well for himself. He's also got all these adult "urges" and can't figure out how to act on them. So this stuff happens.

So no, I don't think he's a calculating, evil, predatory child molester. I do think he's opportunistic when the situation presents itself. With his wealth, he can create those opportunities easily, and probably with increasing frequency. I don't think he's hurting these kids physically, though mentally, he's likely tearing them up.

He isn't abusing his power, but at the same time, he is abusing the kids' love. But I think it is all unknowingly done--he probably does think he's being nice and friendly and loving. Mike just doesn't know how to act and has never been forced to be responsible. Reality for him must be vastly different than it is for the rest of us. Think about it...

Or it's because he's black and The Man doesn't like to see a black man makin' it. I can't decide.
 
2003-12-09 03:21:35 PM
wondering if all of the media outlets that made a big deal out of the charges will make such a fuss if he is cleared and put it on the front page for a week....
wouldn't be hard to believe the lady is just trying to make a quick buck with false allegations, especially since he paid off an accuser before...
also wouldn't be hard to believe he has molested children in the past...
the name wacko jacko didn't come about because he only wears one glove and grabs his crotch a lot...
one thing i've noticed from msnbc, fox, cnn, and fark....the majority of people who say he is completely normal and the media is giving him a bad rap because of the color of his skin (or lack thereof) are black people, many probably also are convinced OJ is innocent....seems like people of the same race are much more likely to defend someone who is accused and/or convicted of a crime simply because they share the same ethnicity, regardless of other circumstances......
i could believe jackson is not guilty of what this lady is accusing him of, but he isn't doing himself any favors by putting himself in compromising positions with little boys...least he could do is have other adult supervision around and not be left alone with little boys, even boy scout leaders aren't supposed to be alone with kids on camping trips....peter pan needs to grow up a little and live in the real world or expect more lawsuits
jackson should be given the benefit of the doubt considering this lady's past, he wasn't convicted from previous allegations, so it may have been a similar situation where the family just took advantage of his freakiness and he paid them off to avoid bad publicity, and he chose to handle it differently this time
 
2003-12-09 03:25:09 PM
What's up with the duplicate posts? Sorry.

Yo, mods, you know what to do...
 
2003-12-09 03:26:30 PM
Sid_6.7

Now, I have had female friends with whom there has been a very deep mutual friendship with no sexual connotations, to the degree that we didn't mind changing in front of one another, or sharing the same bed and cuddling up next to one another. There was never any sexual tension, it was just friendship. Now, what I've had to deal with with people refusing to believe that I'm 'just friends' with someone like that is a completely different story.

Hey, I have no problem believing it. I also know this guy you might like. You too would make a cute couple. ;)
 
2003-12-09 03:32:19 PM
So let me understand this. Parents teach their kids it's OK to accept candy and gifts, (to sit on the lap of an old guy in a red suit, who breaks into their house at night),but everyone freaks when weird Mikey has a sleepover. Talk about confusing the "little tykes".
 
2003-12-09 03:37:47 PM
Say what you will about Michael Jackson, but just the thought of that sequined white glove on my flesh makes me hot.

Michael doesn't need little boys. What Michael Jackson needs is a real man. You hear me Michael? Call me.
 
2003-12-09 03:40:08 PM
He's never going to get convicted. All he needs is reasonable doubt, and there already is that because this kids mom is a wack job.

/bought Number Ones, go Mike.
 
2003-12-09 03:42:30 PM
Mikey needs a whole team of shrinks, not federal 'pound me in the ass prison'. Just like all those screwball child-celebrities and born filthy rich mental defectives- they go nuts. He's a man-child, like Tyson, only not as dangerous. Jacko would probably feel bad and cry if he stepped on a bug.

Then he's got all these clingons and parasites hanging around bleeding him for money all the time - it gets harder and harder to believe any of this nonsense. Look at all the crazed women lining up to take a swipe at Arnie now. Looks more and more to me like they just fabricate most of these "scandals" out of thin air.
 
2003-12-09 03:44:47 PM
Ditto
Sid_6.7

Now, I have had female friends with whom there has been a very deep mutual friendship with no sexual connotations, to the degree that we didn't mind changing in front of one another, or sharing the same bed and cuddling up next to one another. There was never any sexual tension, it was just friendship. Now, what I've had to deal with with people refusing to believe that I'm 'just friends' with someone like that is a completely different story.

Hey, I have no problem believing it. I also know this guy you might like. You too would make a cute couple. ;)


Hey she could have just been fat and ugly. give the poor guy a break.
 
2003-12-09 03:53:41 PM
In response to Rik01's 2003-12-09 02:16:17 PM post: I would have to agree with you regarding Michael Jackson upto the point where you say that after the allegations against you, you STOPPED doing things that could possibly raise suspicions against you. What is Michael Jackson's excuse??? He's continued with the same behaviour that got him in trouble ten years ago, and now he must face the price. I say if he's guilty then he should be punished, but if he's innocent, at the very least he is guilty of being a dumbass by putting himself in that kind of situation again.
 
2003-12-09 03:56:27 PM
Hee hee hee! (spin)

I have a lot of respect for Jackson's (older) musical work. I would like to like him and believe him. I watched the documentary and I read the news, like everyone else. Now, we don't know for certain if he is guilty or not. But where there is smoke, there is often firey passion.

There is just too much of this going on, and the mounting accusations (sorry, couldn't resist that pun) are just so believable after seeing MJ cuddle that kid like a lover in the Bashir documentary.It was majorly creepy- looked like they were dating/very intimate with that body language. Just seems like too much to be a complete coincidence. I would never feel right being so intimate with a child... they were practically tweaking each others nips!

That being said, he does deserve a fair trial of his peers. Better send a spaceship to Mars to pick up some peers! Or perhaps we'll have to manufacture them genetically.

PS Hey Brits- c'mon. We know you guys are the best, and we are cowboy hicks who hate children and don't value our own constitution. Off to dangle a baby off a balcony now...
 
2003-12-09 03:58:18 PM
People are strange when you're a stranger
Faces look ugly when you're alone
Women seem wicked when you're unwanted
Streets are uneven when you're down
When you're strange
Faces come out of the rain
When you're strange
No one remembers your name
When you're strange X3
People are strange when you're a stranger
Faces look ugly when you're alone
Women seem wicked when you're unwanted
Streets are uneven when you're down
When you're strange
Faces come out of the rain
When you're strange
No one remembers your name
When you're strange X3
When you're strange
Faces come out of the rain
When you're strange
No one remembers your name
When you're sttraanggee....
 
2003-12-09 04:01:54 PM
Thank you, Jim Morrison. Happy belated birthday, too (yesterday). Tell Elvis to suck it.
 
2003-12-09 04:02:10 PM
People are strange when you're a stranger
Faces look ugly when you're alone
Women seem wicked when you're unwanted
Streets are uneven when you're down
When you're strange
Faces come out of the rain
When you're strange
No one remembers your name
When you're strange X3
People are strange when you're a stranger
Faces look ugly when you're alone
Women seem wicked when you're unwanted
Streets are uneven when you're down
When you're strange
Faces come out of the rain
When you're strange
No one remembers your name
When you're strange X3
When you're strange
Faces come out of the rain
When you're strange
No one remembers your name
When you're sttraanggee....
 
2003-12-09 04:03:03 PM
People are strange when you're a stranger
Faces look ugly when you're alone
Women seem wicked when you're unwanted
Streets are uneven when you're down
When you're strange
Faces come out of the rain
When you're strange
No one remembers your name
When you're strange X3
People are strange when you're a stranger
Faces look ugly when you're alone
Women seem wicked when you're unwanted
Streets are uneven when you're down
When you're strange
Faces come out of the rain
When you're strange
No one remembers your name
When you're strange X3
When you're strange
Faces come out of the rain
When you're strange
No one remembers your name
When you're sttraanggee....
 
2003-12-09 04:11:17 PM
Well, since the guy has blatently straight-faced lied about his plastic surgeries, I don't think I could take his word for not making the buttsex with the boys. Trouble with proving it is that kids lie, Jacko lies, I'm sure he wasn't retarded enough to tape it, yadda yadda yadda. Add to that the fact that he is a huge celebrity and farktards worship him like the god-damned messiah, and I don't think he'll ever get convicted.

Now, if it came out that Jacko was mentally retarded, then that would be a different story altogether. Then he'd be the world's most successful sped, which is good for him.
 
2003-12-09 04:15:34 PM
Well, don't use the McMartin case to say that all sexual abuse accusations are falsified, either. As for Jackson's case, we don't know what evidence may have been collected in the raid on his house and the video studio, so it's way too early to start judging. His attorneys will have plenty of time to work the public opinion angle between now and then (think the Smoking Gun may have gotten this "confidential" document through Mark Geragos?) How much the DA will fight back with their own evidence leaks we'll just have to see.

I tell you this: If it goes to trial, I don't think Jackson will take the stand in his own defense. I think even his lawyers know he's too creepy.
 
2003-12-09 04:24:50 PM
Wow, no REAL evidence of molestation, big news! no wait... there hasn't been evidence of anything since the beginning...

Why is everyone assuming he's guilty? Because he's wierd? Anyone who was forced to work so hard in showbiz at such a young age would be screwed up. Plus, look at his brother Tito... i'm sure that couldn't have been a healthy thing to grow up next to. Yikes.

"Maybe if Tito didn't eat-o so much-o he wouldn't be so fat-o" - MADTV
 
2003-12-09 04:47:12 PM
You Farkers are ALL missing the point!

Where the hell were all those parents when all this sh*t was going on?

Probably sitting on their asses, lickin' their chops like hungry dogs, waiting for the right moment to strike.
 
2003-12-09 04:58:57 PM
I still dont care. I fault the parents. Why would you even let your child go alone to some single guy's house for a sleepover? That doesnt sound right whether he's a multibillionaire or Bubba down the road.

Even if Michael did it he won't be found guilty. We all know celebraties have ways to "get around" the law.
 
2003-12-09 05:08:56 PM
Don't you feel sorry for the guy? He had a farked up childhood thanks to Daddy Dearest, went straight from child star to the King of Pop and has lived his entire adult life under a HUGE microscope. Do I think he's weird? YOU BETCHA! Do I think he molested those kids? NO FARKING WAY! If he wanted, he could go to the Phillippenes, or Argentina, or some other third world country and buy a kid or two and no one would know or care. Instead, he's going to pick Neverland and invite the local kids over to be reamed? Sorry, I don't buy it. I think no matter what he does, everyone's just waiting to destroy him. This memo is proof. The people who most wanted to nail him say he was innocent, but no one believes him.

The higher you fly, the farther you fall. We Americans see to it...

/runs for the asbestos suit
 
2003-12-09 05:11:09 PM
Lets all remember it was the therapist that started this - not the boy or his family. The therapist reported it.

Who says that Jackson isn't really good a covering his tracks? I dunno. This tops obvious. If everyone wants to pretend that this normal and caring humanitarian is just not capable of "harming" a child - go for it. In his mind I am sure he isn't harming anyone - and I am positive that someone worth a quarter billion dollars can cover they arse just fine thankyou.
 
2003-12-09 06:10:24 PM
The Smoking Gun is the ugliest website ever.
 
2003-12-09 06:18:23 PM
The most damning evidence I've heard is the fact that he was found to posses "art" photo books of nude children in the '93 investigation. But I've only heard about that once from Dateline.

Sleeps with children, likes images of nude children, video tapes children in his room, fits the pedo profile..

Is it any wonder he's presumed guilty? He brought this all on himself be being a colossal weirdo.
 
2003-12-09 06:35:23 PM
Why does everybody want him to be a pedophile? Even if all the evidence in the world proving he HASN'T done anything wrong, everybody would still say:

"Michael Jackson? What a sicko!"

The media has created this gigantic stigma for the guy, and that's really sad.

But come on, look at the dude. He's obviously fascinated by child-like things (a park in his backyard, a zoo, tons and tons and tons of games in his house), but does that mean he wants to hump children?

Ack, I dunno. Maybe he should just buy his own planet and start a colony of ageless, sexless love somehow.
 
2003-12-09 06:37:12 PM
If he wanted, he could go to the Phillippenes, or Argentina, or some other third world country and buy a kid or two and no one would know or care.

Yes, but that behavior would be rational. I think MJ is beyond rational thought and motivation; a rational person would stop hanging around children after the first multi-million dollar settlement, regardless of his guilt or innocence.
 
2003-12-09 06:43:53 PM
If he is found guilty and put in gaol, will he still be able to record new songs?
*please, God, no....*
 
2003-12-09 07:06:23 PM
Anyone else ever feel sorry for Jackson? I certainly don't approve of his lifestyle, but I don't think I've ever seen a more obvious and pathetic case of a man being crushed by the pressures of society (and he had lots of them). To get a sense of what I mean, just listen to these three of his songs -- you can feel his life unfold right out of them. First, listen to "Give me one more chance," which is a Jackson 5 song filled with boyish happiness: the joy that comes with being a 15 year old, right on the cusp between total blissful ignorance and the pain of adult experience. Then listen to something from his middle years (The best selling ones), say, like "bad," it highlights Jackson in his prime adult years playing the entertainer. But for those who have any memory of the 80s, the pressure kept mounting on him, with more news coverage, with a bizarre and often embarrasing family, with the struggles involved with being the most famous person in the world (and I'd have to say at some point in there, he was). Listen to "Scream," which came out on Dangerous I believe, right at the end of his (Successful) career. The three songs are like a highlight real of Jackson's life and experience.

I'm not saying his behaviour is excusable, it's not. I'm saying it's pityable: the man has been crushed and warped by the life he's lived, by both his Dad (whose biography varies from telling to telling, but is consistently reported to be, at the very least, a total asshole) and the media. So anyway, I hope somebody listens to those songs and tells me if they get a sense of "a brief synopsis of the life and times of Michael Jackson" too.
 
2003-12-09 07:26:14 PM
They should charge him with a misdemeanor and leave it at that. It's only fitting that Michael Jackson get off with something small.
 
Ivo
2003-12-09 07:30:41 PM
To follow up on Rik01's long post on the whole "kids have been known to lie, now and then" theme, here's an article on three people convicted on pretty much the same evidence I've seen for MJ:

A darkness lifted at last

I really hope that if the allegations are true, then there's some sort of physical evidence. Because you really shouldn't convict anyone in a case like this based on testimony alone. It's just too easy to influence a kid (or even an adult, to a certain degree, especially for distant memories) to really honestly believe something happened that did not actually occur.

Another reference on that: Memories questioned, but victim still certain of evil - Studies say kids can be easily led
 
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