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(Fox News)   In most places, people don't randomly shoot each other while waiting for pizza, and then claim self-defense. And then there is Florida   (foxnews.com) divider line 33
    More: Florida  
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5699 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Dec 2012 at 10:54 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-12-20 11:47:03 AM
3 votes:

here to help: gun violence.


here to help: being a dick.


here to help: violent asshat.


here to help: Responsible gun owner. Nothing to see here.


here to help: 2nd amendment douchensteins...

Dinks.


here to help: asshole


here to help: freaking the hell out


here to help: idiot


here to help: you f*ck around you get knocked the f*ck out. .


here to help: idiots


f.kulfoto.com
2012-12-20 11:30:34 AM
2 votes:

here to help: Ah, here they come. A NORMAL and RATIONAL person does not let some guy complaining about poor service at a restaurant escalate into a fight and then shoot the poor bastard.

The sane people in this world are getting fed up with your relentless excuses. I don't have a problem with RESPONSIBLE gun ownership but there have to be some far more stringent screening and training processes in place. Not let any tiny dicked buttf*cker yokel with a bad attitude fulfill his fantasy of Tombstone.

Get it together. How many more kids are you willing to let get massacred before admitting that you are WRONG!


Do we really know all that much about what happened here, other than a) someone was complaining b) someone got shot?

Is it really that much of a stretch to consider that maybe the guy who was complaining was belligerent and threatening? I'm not saying the shooting was justified and the charges against the shooter bear that out but do you seriously think the whole story is that one guy heard another guy complaining and shot him because of it?

Belligerent dickheads getting shot for being belligerent dickheads is not something I feel like legislating against. Seems to me like this played out okay. Asshole gets shot, irresponsible shooter gets charged. It's pretty unlikely (unless someone backs this guy up) that "stand your ground" is going to help him when it comes time to talk to a judge.

But hey, whatever. We could all just keep drooling into our keyboards. That's fun, too.
2012-12-20 11:16:48 AM
2 votes:
It's almost like walking around with a gun is prematurely escalating any confrontation.
2012-12-20 11:00:32 AM
2 votes:
what some people in Florida must think:

Stand Your Ground = if you're standing on the ground, just go ahead and shoot
2012-12-20 01:47:30 PM
1 votes:

stevarooni: here to help: They want every citizen to be armed but don't want proper background checks. This means the mentally unstable would be able to have access to firearms even more easily than they do now.

Define "proper background checks". Not adjudicated to be mentally incompetent? Already part of the NICS check. Not a felon? Check. What more would you prefer? That anyone who attends therapy be unable to obtain firearms?


Yep. They should add anyone in a relationship to the list if they want a real witchhunt.
2012-12-20 01:34:46 PM
1 votes:

GanjSmokr: I have seen exactly ZERO people say that they want to "arm every citizen despite mental and emotional defects"... maybe you can cite someone who has actually said that?


That's what the NRA derpers want. They just have very different standards for what constitutes a potentially dangerous mental health issue. Probably because they'd lose all those sweet membership fees.
2012-12-20 01:34:19 PM
1 votes:

A Shambling Mound: I will state for the record that I think assaulting someone [carrying] a gun is a perfectly good reason to get shot, however. Receiving injury (however disproportionate) is a risk you choose to take when you decide attempting to dispense injury is a good idea.


As long as you never have to put those words into practice, fine, but disproportionate use of force will get you charged with manslaughter or worse if you shoot someone for simple assault. If you think they're going to kill you (6 1/2 foot pro wrestler vs. 4 1/2 foot granny with a CCW, or if the guy's cracked the back of your favorite head against a barroom wall and asks, "Have you paid your dues, Jack?"), you're justified. But meeting non-deadly force with deadly force is a quick trip to jail en route to prison.
2012-12-20 01:28:35 PM
1 votes:

here to help: manimal2878: Nobody endorses shooting children either.

No, the drunk driving equivalent of that to what I was saying would be endorsing people get drunk then actively try to run people over. The whole trying to arm every citizen despite mental and emotional defects would be the equivalent to trying to get everyone to drive drunk.


I have seen exactly ZERO people say that they want to "arm every citizen despite mental and emotional defects"... maybe you can cite someone who has actually said that?
2012-12-20 01:27:54 PM
1 votes:
The last person I'd want wandering around the community with a gun in their possession is a person who feels so threatened by other people and so anxious day-to-day that they feel the need to arm themselves.

That's who I want carrying a gun: An anxious scared person with an over-inflated sense of their self-importance.
2012-12-20 01:10:25 PM
1 votes:

here to help: StoPPeRmobile: You're sure? Stop the farking presses. We should just consult you on matters of war and defense.

Yeah... you keep believing the backyard Rambos are gonna save your ass.

manimal2878: Does every alcohol driver have blood on their hands from the drunk driver that killed one of my friends?

I'd say anybody who aggressively endorses drunk driving to the point of trying to make it illegal to drive sober would. But nobody does that. You know why? Because it's f*cking CRAZY.


Nobody endorses shooting children either.
2012-12-20 01:04:27 PM
1 votes:
I don't think that law applies here. At least, I hope it doesn't. Most of us have been in line and someone else annoys us. I have been known to ask people to shut up (like the guy at Burger King who is OUTRAGED because he specifically said 'light mayo' on his chicken). First, I size them up and make sure I'd stand a pretty good chance of either kicking their ass or outrunning them - then if I feel all comfy I'll speak up. But let's say it's a 6' 4" giant dude that looks like he's on roid-rage. I would stare at my shoes and hope he gets a free sandwich and move on with my life. After he leaves I might make a snarky comment for a cheap giggle from my wife. BUT, now let's say I have a gun and a law that says I can stand my ground. Mr. Roid-Rager just caught me in a bad mood. I spout off, he gets pissed and shoves me - I pull my gun and stand my ground. I call bullshiat. You can't walk around and shoot everyone that pisses you off. Carrying a gun does not give you the right to talk trash and then back it up with murder if the argument doesn't go your way.
2012-12-20 12:52:49 PM
1 votes:

hiker9999: St. Petersburg police say 52-year-old Michael Jock was waiting in line at a Little Caesars on Sunday when another customer, 49-year-old Randall White, began complaining about the slow service. The men exchanged words, which turned into a shoving match.

 
Well, there you go. It's always the dumb Jock.
 
It's the fault of White, man.
2012-12-20 12:40:54 PM
1 votes:

Phinn: I have no idea about this pizza shooting, but I assume there were other people there. So, it's not a matter of "his word." There could have been 20 witnesses, for all we know, including the guy that got shot, who apparently lived.


"We determined it did not reach a level where deadly force was required," [Police spokesman] Puetz said.
2012-12-20 12:30:56 PM
1 votes:

JerkStore: And THAT is exactly the problem with the law. All we have is his word for it that he believed he was about to die before he opened fire. Shouldn't we hold the users of deadly force to a higher standard if they're going to potentially kill people?

I think this is one of those cases where the preponderance of evidence must lie with the shooter, not the guy with holes in him.


All wrong.

I have no idea about this pizza shooting, but I assume there were other people there. So, it's not a matter of "his word." There could have been 20 witnesses, for all we know, including the guy that got shot, who apparently lived.

Self-defense is wholly legal and ethical. It's more than merely justified or excusable. It's the first, most basic human right. It's pretty much the origin of "rights" altogether.
2012-12-20 12:17:05 PM
1 votes:

stevarooni: Please explain "misinterpreted". I don't understand what you mean.


I mean many folks say that it was intended for the average citizen to have arms in case of a military threat against the nation as there was no standing army. Now the US has the most powerful army on the planet so that right is no longer needed. I'm not sure I agree as I'm not a constitutional scholar but it's a valid point.

My thinking is gun ownership should be a privilege like a drivers license. You abuse that privilege and it can be revoked. It works quite well in many countries.
2012-12-20 12:07:52 PM
1 votes:
Stand Your Ground is legalized murder. Leave it to Florida to find a way to paint murder with an acceptable-sounding name. Stand Your Ground. LOL. The world would be a better place with more people getting mental help and less people "standing their ground."

What crime are you going to legalize and give a friendly name to next, Florida? How about a law called "Enjoy Adult Beverages While Driving" to legalize drunk driving. Or "Sex Without All The Red Tape" to legalize rape?
2012-12-20 12:04:01 PM
1 votes:

A Shambling Mound: Is it really that much of a stretch to consider that maybe the guy who was complaining was belligerent and threatening?


I am hard pressed to think of any situation where you're in a pizza joint, a fight breaks out, and you need to shoot an unarmed man. I'm sure there must be one, and I'm sure this isn't it.

Any CCW permit holder who tries to defend this idiot should lose their permit.
2012-12-20 11:58:32 AM
1 votes:

Arkanaut: "An armed society is a polite society waits patiently for their pizza no matter how long it takes and shoots anyone who doesn't."

2012-12-20 11:55:48 AM
1 votes:

Incog_Neeto: Your right CCW permit holders do commit crimes, albeit at a much lower rate than the rest of the population but don't let that stop your rant.


The sampling bias is this statement is staggering.
 
Criminals can't get CCWs so every CCW holder is law-abiding until the day they actual cross over into criminal behavior, thereby relinquishing their CCW permit.
2012-12-20 11:46:01 AM
1 votes:

here to help: tricycleracer: This is why the law is bullshiat.

1. Talk shiat to someone.
2. They walk towards you.
3. Shoot them.

Exactly. Just like Zimmerman asshole. I don't care if Trayvon was selling crack to babby's. He started a fight he couldn't finish. The worst that would have happened was he took a beatdown (which he deserved). Instead the kid is dead.


This is NOT the law. As a CCW holder you are required to do everything within your power to physically retreat from the situation before using your weapon. And, you as a holder cannot instigate or escalate any disputes. THAT is why this guy is in trouble.
2012-12-20 11:42:52 AM
1 votes:

tricycleracer:
This is why the law is bullshiat.

1.  Talk shiat to someone.
2.  They walk towards you.
3.  Shoot them.


Unfortunately, that seems to be what it's become. The original intent was to shield people from prosecution when they were forced into a confrontation and had to defend themselves, but it seems to be used far more by the sort of people who provoke or escalate confrontations and then shoot in order to avoid the ass-kicking their behavior has earned them.
2012-12-20 11:34:19 AM
1 votes:

stevarooni: Domestic violence misdemeanors can get your right to keep and bear arms invalidated,


Good. You want a gun? Don't be a violent asshat. You seriously think people who beat on their OWN family have the temperament needed for responsible gun ownership?

If so, you are part of the problem.
2012-12-20 11:33:46 AM
1 votes:
That law just keeps on giving. What used to be a shoving match or minor fisticuffs resulting in a bruise or two can now escalate into a shooting/possible killing. And why not? Why risk a black eye when you can just gun the guy down? Want to kill a man, but don't want to go to jail? Move to Florida. Start a fight, then just shoot the bastard, claiming you were in fear of your life.
2012-12-20 11:30:20 AM
1 votes:

boarch: here to help: Come on 2nd amendment douchensteins... get in here and back this retard up! NO licensed gun owner would EVER use their weapon in an irresponsible fashion! RIGHT?! RIGHT?!!!

You have blood on your hands.

Dinks.

Go die in a fire.

What does him having a concealed carry permit have to do with anything?
If he didn't have that permit, this story would have turned out the same but there would be little to no possibility that the shooter would have a CHANCE of being considered innocent even if he was defending his life.


If he didn't have a CCP...he would be breaking the law by walking around in a pizza place with a gun. So, maybe he'd decide not to break the law and leave the gun at home. Then, this would be a story about to middle-aged men getting into an old guy fight about pizza and everyone would laugh. I'm not an anti-gun dude, but THIS is inevitably what will happen if people are allowed to carry guns everywhere. Folks can't control themselves. I can see it now:
 
 
Victim: Hey man, this is some bullshiat. I been waiting 20 minutes for a pizza that's supposed to be ready. My feet hurt. My ankle is bothering me. I have to use the bath...
 
Shooter: Man, would you shut that shiat up? Its enough standing in this line. I don't want to listen to your biatching for another 20 minutes.
 
Victim: Fark you.
 
Shooter: Fark you.
 
*Both men square up*
 
Shooter: Bang.
 
Victim: Dammit! Now my stomach hurts too!
 
Shooter: Bang, again.
 
Victim: This is going to go down as a stupid way to die, if this is the way I go. I should have thought this one through.
 
Shooter: Uhhhh, I was standing my ground, officer. Yeah, that's it.
2012-12-20 11:29:32 AM
1 votes:

occamswrist: Technically, I bet after he pulled out the gun, the other man feared for his life, too.

Doubly so once he was farking shot.


No way.  Only CCW-holders are ever allowed to feel threatened.  Everyone else is a threat to their safety and it's never the other way around.
2012-12-20 11:28:30 AM
1 votes:
I got this.

ahem

1. get a concealed weapons permit
2. buy a gun
3. carry it everywhere, praying to the Norse Gods that you get a chance to use it.
4. Start a shoving match in a local eatery because no incident has come up to let you kill someone.
5. Start losing said match to your unarmed opponent.
6. Pull a gun on your unarmed opponent like a little weak biatch, and shoot him multiple times.
7. Claim self defense and "hold my ground" laws apply.
8. Get ass raped repeatedly in the local pokey.
2012-12-20 11:28:26 AM
1 votes:

factoryconnection: Phinn: Wow, you must have special access to unreported evidence.

They were in a shoving match, as reported. It used to be that shoving matches resulted in bruises, hot tempers, and maybe a broken bone. Now it is a death sentence.

Only because this hot-head is a terrible shot is the other hot-head not dead. Two round, point blank range over a f*cking pizza wait? There's plenty of evidence implicit in the story: there was only one man with a gun, and it was coincidentally the only one fearing for his life. Notice that the shooter wasn't under arrest at the hospital because of his grievous beating injuries... Surprise!


Technically, I bet after he pulled out the gun, the other man feared for his life, too.

Doubly so once he was farking shot.
2012-12-20 11:27:52 AM
1 votes:
Step 1: start a fight with someone in Florida
Step 2: claim your life is in danger and shoot them
Step 3: get out of jail free card/profit
2012-12-20 11:25:47 AM
1 votes:

here to help: How many more kids are you willing to let get massacred before admitting that you are WRONG!


How many people are you willing to be raped, robbed, beaten and killed because they were prohibited from using the tool they needed to defend themselves?

Why are you so in favor of allowing rapists, robbers and batterers to commit their crimes with impunity?
2012-12-20 11:23:03 AM
1 votes:

Phinn: Wow, you must have special access to unreported evidence.


They were in a shoving match, as reported. It used to be that shoving matches resulted in bruises, hot tempers, and maybe a broken bone. Now it is a death sentence.

Only because this hot-head is a terrible shot is the other hot-head not dead. Two round, point blank range over a f*cking pizza wait? There's plenty of evidence implicit in the story: there was only one man with a gun, and it was coincidentally the only one fearing for his life. Notice that the shooter wasn't under arrest at the hospital because of his grievous beating injuries... Surprise!
2012-12-20 11:20:56 AM
1 votes:

Phinn: factoryconnection: This guy seemed to think he was going to get shoved to death.

Wow, you must have special access to unreported evidence.

Go ahead -- prove that the shooter did not reasonably believe the other man posed an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury.

Take your time.


This is why the law is bullshiat.
 
1.  Talk shiat to someone.
2.  They walk towards you.
3.  Shoot them.
2012-12-20 11:19:16 AM
1 votes:
This guy was obviously just acting on behalf of his well regulated militia.
2012-12-20 11:17:21 AM
1 votes:
If 'shooting somebody who is behaving like an asshole in public' is the same thing as 'standing your ground' I've got a friend who just begs for a bullet on a distressingly frequent basis.
 
Think I better warn him to stay the hell out of Florida...
 
/ 56-yr old men shouldn't throw tantrums in public
// so embarrassing 
 
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