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(Global TV BC)   Vancouver's new billion dollar bridge has a bonus feature: Ice Bombs (w/ chilling video)   (globaltvbc.com) divider line 98
    More: Scary, Port Mann Bridge, ice, home runs, snow  
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20495 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Dec 2012 at 11:18 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-20 12:19:21 PM

edgesrealm: It doesn't get any better. I crossed the same bridge this morning on my commute via bus, and the only change they made was adding signs on both sides warning about falling ice and snow. Way to do nothing, Mr. Transportation Minister and Mr. Bridge Engineer.

// I wish I was kidding
/// But sadly I'm not

How in the blue hell could a bunch of bridge engineers, architects, and the government officials funding the project not run simulations about what would happen to this bridge using the materials they used in something that Canada has during winter months (that being snow)? In terms of the government officials, I answered my own question, but the engineers and architects have no excuse unless they were told to purposely cut corners by the government officials.

// Boggles the mind
// Actually, it doesn't, because it's BC.


Ah yes...FallingIceCAD, a very popular software suite.
 
2012-12-20 12:20:26 PM

Nuclear Monk: Ah yes...FallingIceCAD, a very popular software suite.


Also known as Ecotech?.
 
2012-12-20 12:21:50 PM
Hey, was that the guy who blew it in the finale of Big Break, Greenbrier?

James Lepp...yup.
 
2012-12-20 12:25:35 PM
HAHAHAHAHA,,,,and did he say at the last that it was a toll road too, that adds insult to injury
 
2012-12-20 12:26:18 PM

Buck Henderson: "Woah! There goes the windshield."

That guy made me laugh. I like how there isn't anyone ranting and raving. The most anyone said was that woman saying... "it should be closed down" followed by the announcer's "and...it was."


This. I had to go back and listen for laid-back-hippie-with-damaged-windshield again. He was cooler than I would have been, I think.
 
2012-12-20 12:29:16 PM

change1211: Wow, there is some pathetic Vancouver hate going on in this thread. If it's such a terrible city then how come it keeps on getting ranked as one of the best cities to live in?


Because it has a HUGE marketing department.

In reality, Vancouver is a shiathole. Everything in Vancouver is poorly-made, overpriced, and sold by people who would sooner miturate in your ocular cavities then smile in your direction. Vancouver is a dead amusement park, staffed by accursed souls who grew up in an insane asylum.
 
2012-12-20 12:29:37 PM

Generation_D: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_sIVb-9yK4 
 
 
long range hand-held video of cars on a bridge.  Which I guess was pretty scary with the ice, eh.
 
Canadian bridge designers not accounting for bridge ice.  Thats kind of interesting.  Why was the old bridge not doing the same thing, he wondered.
 
But not enough to keep worrying about it.    Good luck with your bridge, Van.


Bridge designers were from San Diego and San Francisco. America's finest engineers.

/going to take a Mandarin class because your time is over.
 
2012-12-20 12:31:41 PM

que.guero: change1211: Wow, there is some pathetic Vancouver hate going on in this thread. If it's such a terrible city then how come it keeps on getting ranked as one of the best cities to live in?

Because it has a HUGE marketing department.

In reality, Vancouver is a shiathole. Everything in Vancouver is poorly-made, overpriced, and sold by people who would sooner miturate in your ocular cavities then smile in your direction. Vancouver is a dead amusement park, staffed by accursed souls who grew up in an insane asylum.


How about Welland?.
 
2012-12-20 12:32:32 PM
Vancouver is an embarassment to the rest of Canada

/Quebecois

How much ice do they get there, anyway?
 
2012-12-20 12:36:05 PM

Buck Henderson: "Woah! There goes the windshield."

That guy made me laugh."


Nice Cheech Marin impersonation.

/Lived in Vancouver for 18 months.
//Best time of my life.
 
2012-12-20 12:36:43 PM
Professional Golfer?
 
2012-12-20 12:38:06 PM

Porous Horace: Vancouver is an embarassment to the rest of Canada

/Quebecois

How much ice do they get there, anyway?


if you don't like it, secede already.

though I was embarrassed to see our city on the national news, from the Asian SUV drivers flipping into ditches, to the guy pushing his snowblower through the one inch of snow on his sidewalk
 
2012-12-20 12:42:21 PM
cars were stopped everywhere on the bridge

Because stopping under falling icicles is better than getting out from under them.
 
2012-12-20 12:43:10 PM

change1211: Wow, there is some pathetic Vancouver hate going on in this thread. If it's such a terrible city then how come it keeps on getting ranked as one of the best cities to live in?


Great pot, dude

Didn't you hear "Otto" on the video, when ice was crashing down

LOVE the ending with the toll of $1.50 plus deductable.
 
2012-12-20 12:44:13 PM
We got caught by this in Atlanta a few years ago when they built Freedom Parkway (a guy wire over the road was the culprit). No one thought of this in Vancouver?

The solution down here was to just build a cover over the road.
 
2012-12-20 12:46:26 PM

Generation_D: Clicking the link for me gets:

= 0) document.write(unescape('%3C') + '\!-' + '-') //-->

Even after "allowing all on this page" in noscript.


Stop using Internet Explorer 4.
 
2012-12-20 12:46:51 PM

WelldeadLink: cars were stopped everywhere on the bridge

Because stopping under falling icicles is better than getting out from under them.


there's a steep curve at the north end of the bridge that was iced over,, which caused traffic to slow down to a stop
 
2012-12-20 12:49:49 PM

change1211: Wow, there is some pathetic Vancouver hate going on in this thread. If it's such a terrible city then how come it keeps on getting ranked as one of the best cities to live in?


In the Kingdom of the Blind, the one-eyed man is King.
 
2012-12-20 12:51:56 PM

Porous Horace: Vancouver is an embarassment to the rest of Canada

/Quebecois

How much ice do they get there, anyway?


Yes, we should take our queues on how to build things from Quebec, where you guys build things so shoddily that they don't last the century. Roads, Stadiums, etc...

// Lorne Elliott
/// Said because it is true
//// Vancouver Rules


CygnusDarius: ha-ha-guy: Generation_D: Neat. So designed-to-fail on delivery, with no real short-term solution possible, other than close and wait til spring.

About the only quick fix seems to a net capable of catching or breaking up and slowing down the chunks. The long term is going to be coating the cables so nothing can freeze onto them and large ice chunks can't build up.

I thought about the net, but, wouldn't that mean that it would accumulate ice, and get additional weight? Besides, you'd need to get a material strong enough to resist the weight, and light enough so that it doesn't give any more added weight.

The coating seems like a good idea. What brands out there are good? I work in warmer climates, so I have little experience with it.

edgesrealm: the engineers and architects have no excuse unless they were told to purposely cut corners by the government officials.

This. I've lost one or two projects because I've been asked the same, and maybe it's because I'm new to the construction business, but I have work ethics, and despite my disadvantages, I'm not desperate enough to look the other way. Architects and engineers have the obligations to do things right because we have lives on at stake when we finish the construction.


I raise a glass to you sir, that's the way to be. Very impressed.
 
2012-12-20 01:04:44 PM
put shakers on each of the cables, close bridge, turn them on, let it fall, turn them off, open bridge to traffic.

seems simple fix. happens what? 2-5 times a year to affect commute traffic?
 
2012-12-20 01:05:40 PM
Daaaaaayyyuuuummmm!!!
 
2012-12-20 01:06:24 PM
Ice Bombs??? So are people who jump off the Golden Gate Bridge considered Suicide Bombs?
 
2012-12-20 01:09:18 PM

Brick-House: Ice Bombs??? So are people who jump off the Golden Gate Bridge considered Suicide Bombs?


i1.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-12-20 01:11:39 PM
Tolls are a $1.50??? Fu(k, here in California they are $5 and $6 bucks -- American!!!
 
2012-12-20 01:14:35 PM

scubamage: Can we steel inspiration from what they do with
[www.reprehensible.net image 792x361]

Other possible ideas:
Run a series of hoses down the cables (on the outside) with a buffer to prevent heating of the supports, and pump hot water through them when temperatures fall below 33 degrees.

Metal cladding that goes around the cables with radiating coils running through it that can be turned on, again when below 33 degrees.


I'm sure there is a solution. And given the scale of the lawsuit that's bound to happen, there is a huge financial incentive to figure it out.

/runs to patent office


I have dodged snow/ice bombs off of interstate highway signs in St. Louis, so I don't know if they have this figured out yet.
 
2012-12-20 01:14:41 PM

Brick-House: Tolls are a $1.50??? Fu(k, here in California they are $5 and $6 bucks -- American!!!


so about the same then?

/snerk
 
2012-12-20 01:18:57 PM

CygnusDarius: The coating seems like a good idea. What brands out there are good? I work in warmer climates, so I have little experience with it.

imageshack.us
 
2012-12-20 01:26:03 PM

Porous Horace: Vancouver is an embarassment to the rest of Canada

/Quebecois

How much ice do they get there, anyway?


Maybe to Canadians east of Toronto.
 
2012-12-20 01:30:10 PM
Heh. I knew I'd get some good snarky replies. Thanks, maudites Anglaises.
 
2012-12-20 01:32:58 PM

Porous Horace: Heh. I knew I'd get some good snarky replies. Thanks, maudites Anglaises.


Vous emmerder les Anglais, vous sentez la douleur, aussi simple que cela.
 
2012-12-20 01:34:05 PM
<Checks requirements> Nope, nothing in there about not dropping shiat from the cables on icy days.
 
2012-12-20 01:35:53 PM

Brick-House: Tolls are a $1.50??? Fu(k, here in California they are $5 and $6 bucks -- American!!!


You should have heard the biatching when they were $3. I think it's half price for a while.
 
2012-12-20 01:38:39 PM
CygnusDarius:
This. I've lost one or two projects because I've been asked the same, and maybe it's because I'm new to the construction business, but I have work ethics, and despite my disadvantages, I'm not desperate enough to look the other way. Architects and engineers have the obligations to do things right because we have lives on at stake when we finish the construction.

Canadian engineers wear an iron ring on the little finger of their working hand to remind them what happens when they screw up.
 
/Whereas politicians have to have sex in cowgirl position because they can only fark up.
//joke not valid for female politicians, despite the fact they've shown they can be equally as incompetent as their male colleagues
 
2012-12-20 01:40:16 PM

CygnusDarius: Hmm, the design seems to be prone, and perhaps not very adequate, to the climate. Designing an element that, if not stopping the ice, at least break it in smaller pieces as it fell, it's tricky, because you'd get more ice in those elements.

I like a challenge.


Electrify the cables so they get warm enough to prevent ice from forming.  Ta Da!
 
2012-12-20 01:40:17 PM

CygnusDarius: I thought about the net, but, wouldn't that mean that it would accumulate ice, and get additional weight? Besides, you'd need to get a material strong enough to resist the weight, and light enough so that it doesn't give any more added weight.

The coating seems like a good idea. What brands out there are good? I work in warmer climates, so I have little experience with it.


The net just has to break the ice chunks apart so you get a bunch of little ice flakes that fall down the rest of the way. It doesn't actually have to hold the ice. Just ensure the mass of each ice chunk that makes through the net is lower. Also bonus points for whatever energy the net can absorb in the process.

As for the coating, I know the paint on the Mackinac Bridge is designed to prevent ice formation. The high winds likely help with that.

I suppose as a third option you could try to fire some kind of vibration through the bridge to knock the ice off before it can form larger chunks. Although that seems to open the door to all kinds of other problems. I'd say put the net up until the summer when you can repaint it. Worst case you have to send out workers after the big storms to dump the net by hand.
 
2012-12-20 01:41:15 PM
Hey I know...

Canada can take all the black rifles that Obummer is going to confiscate and attach them to a guidance system and shoot the ice before it hits the cars, turning it into a gentle snowfall!!

No downside there!!
 
2012-12-20 01:42:53 PM
diamondbag.tripod.com
 
Dude that was my windshield.  I'm so wasted.
 
2012-12-20 01:48:09 PM
The design before the "fark it, lets build a ten lane wide bridge with tolls and then twice yearly ice to hook into your windshield".

i.imgur.com


/100,000 vehicles a day for the tolls(full price in one year year) at roughly $3 to $8 per vehicle(car to transport truck).
//Toll tickets are also non-contestable in a court of law, which is considered illegal under the right to a fair trial.
///tickets issued in Error on automated tolls are above 2%.
//bridge is 1 billion dollars and then 3 billion dollars for the total project.
 
2012-12-20 01:54:16 PM

sheep snorter: The design before the "fark it, lets build a ten lane wide bridge with tolls and then twice yearly ice to hook into your windshield".

[i.imgur.com image 500x476]


Some projects suddenly change between the contest, and the actual construction. It frustrates a lot of people involved.
 
2012-12-20 01:56:57 PM

ha-ha-guy: CygnusDarius: I thought about the net, but, wouldn't that mean that it would accumulate ice, and get additional weight? Besides, you'd need to get a material strong enough to resist the weight, and light enough so that it doesn't give any more added weight.

The coating seems like a good idea. What brands out there are good? I work in warmer climates, so I have little experience with it.

The net just has to break the ice chunks apart so you get a bunch of little ice flakes that fall down the rest of the way. It doesn't actually have to hold the ice. Just ensure the mass of each ice chunk that makes through the net is lower. Also bonus points for whatever energy the net can absorb in the process.

As for the coating, I know the paint on the Mackinac Bridge is designed to prevent ice formation. The high winds likely help with that.

I suppose as a third option you could try to fire some kind of vibration through the bridge to knock the ice off before it can form larger chunks. Although that seems to open the door to all kinds of other problems. I'd say put the net up until the summer when you can repaint it. Worst case you have to send out workers after the big storms to dump the net by hand.


I thought about the idea of the ice-breaking net. Makes more sense than a net designed to actually catch ice. Hmm, I'd really would like to work in Canada, or anywhere with a colder climate, but there would be quite a lot of stuff to catch up with: Some software I'm rusty with, building codes, actually getting my TOEFL this time around, not to mention the working visa.
 
2012-12-20 01:59:25 PM
And a portfolio, which requires more working experience.
 
2012-12-20 02:03:19 PM

Leisure Suit Larry: If my tax dollars helped pay for that bridge and that happened to my car as I was crossing it. I would not be paying my insurance deductible and my insurance company would not be paying any claim so they could raise my rates for it being partly my fault for trying to cross an unsafe bridge. The city and/or engineering and design firm should pay for all damage to those cars.


The monopoly insurance corporation of british columbia(icbc) will then ban you from driving and any renewals of insurance/license.
No-Fault insurance has also been silently implemented, meaning you are at fault for being there and getting damaged, even though its the bridges fault.

ICBC is supposedly a crown corporation"(government) but have been given ownership of all things road in BC(including control of the police in what they enforce or ignore enforcing). You have to file a lawsuit in court to get justice. ICBC lawyers will discredit you in any way possible, legal or Illegal. Provincial Lawsuit Court cases are delayed by 10 months in BC to get to trial. Cost cutting in courts is so freaking awesome.
icbc advice
 
2012-12-20 02:28:30 PM

Leisure Suit Larry: I would not be paying my insurance deductible and my insurance company would not be paying any claim so they could raise my rates for it being partly my fault for trying to cross an unsafe bridge. The city and/or engineering and design firm should pay for all damage to those cars.


The bridge company has agreed to cover the deductible.

Brick-House: Tolls are a $1.50??? Fu(k, here in California they are $5 and $6 bucks -- American!!!


It's $9 -- Canadian!!! - if you're carrying a Christmas tree. And the $1.50 is only a temporary introductory rate.
 
2012-12-20 06:01:13 PM
Who was the idiot who designed this thing?!? Seriously, a Canadian firm designed this!?! I'm a Floridian and I even know better than this. Then again, I'm not an engineer either. The obvious very often passes by engineers.
 
2012-12-20 06:34:02 PM

change1211: Wow, there is some pathetic Vancouver hate going on in this thread. If it's such a terrible city then how come it keeps on getting ranked as one of the best cities to live in?


To be fair, the bridge runs between Coquitlam and Surrey, and I've never known anyone who actually has something good to say about Surrey.
 
2012-12-20 07:48:00 PM

edgesrealm: something that Canada has during winter months (that being snow)


Really not so much in Vancouver. The average daily low in December (the coldest month on average) is 37.0 °F, and the record low is 3.9 °F. So while icing conditions happen (it is very wet in the winter) it's not like Vancouver spends 9 months covered in frozen water.
 
2012-12-20 11:23:59 PM
The Zakim bridge in Boston has had the same problem: http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/12/10/i-team-falling-ice-puts-zakim-br idge-drivers-at-risk/

I suspect they can run electric tape up the cables to keep the ice melted, but that's not going to be cheap.
 
2012-12-21 12:55:26 AM

Generation_D: Clicking the link for me gets:

= 0) document.write(unescape('%3C') + '\!-' + '-') //-->

Even after "allowing all on this page" in noscript.

I just wish these idiot webdevs would code sites with the assumption people block their random insecure scripts from running.  To me its weird to demand my browser run all your sh*t just to show a damn youtube.

Did a quick look on youtube, didn't find this specific video.  Apparently they've had some trouble with this bridge before, though.

On February 10, 2012, during construction of the replacement bridge, a crane collapsed, causing a 90-tonne concrete section of bridge decking to drop into the water below. While no one was injured, the accident delayed subsequent construction.  WorkSafe BC inspectors evaluated the safety practices on the construction site.


On December 19th, 2012, cold weather caused ice to accumulate on the supporting cables, periodically dropping to the car-deck below.

ICBC, the vehicle insurance entity in British Columbia, reported 60 separate claims of ice-damage during the incident. In addition, one driver required an ambulance due to injuries. The bridge was closed for several hours while engineers investigated.


I dated a webdev for a while. I finally gave up when I finally realized that she was never going to understand this concept, or that pictures and text with basic formatting (which takes care of most of the internet) can be displayed with only a few lines of code. I also learned enough about HTML5 to know that I'm going to a non-5-capable browser in a year or two when things get bad.

/Perhaps ice bombs are a sign of the coming HTML5 apocalypse.
//I'll worry when they start coming through my screen.
////CSB
 
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