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(Salon)   Only the fine patriots at the National Review have the cojones to ID the real culprit in the Sandy Hook shooting: women   (salon.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, National Review, Sandy Hook, cojones, school psychologist, NRO  
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15770 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Dec 2012 at 3:53 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-20 06:05:07 AM  
Yes, because what this country needs is more testosterone and misogyny... *rolls eyes*
 
2012-12-20 06:09:58 AM  

kxs401: I like that "reading specialist" is in quotes. Probably because it's not a "real job."


I went to the "reading specialist" in elementary school and read on an undergraduate level (I had problems with handwriting). It's not a real job, it's story time.
 
2012-12-20 06:10:56 AM  
It's a shame people can make a living writing garbage like this.

Even more of a shame there's enough of an audience to make a market for the ideas.

/Why couldn't the shooter go nuts in NRO headquarters, instead?
 
2012-12-20 06:12:39 AM  
In case no one's mentioned it:

Sandy Hook was K-4, not K-6.

Men have not been "forced out" of primary education. As a man who has taught primary I can attest that we're quite welcome generally, and they want more of us because it's widely believed among educators that the present rarity of male teachers is not a good thing.

There were male teachers at Columbine. The coach, presumably a relatively fit and bold man, was shot dead by scrawny teens. (He accomplished some good in evacuating students, but female teachers did that too.)

This idea FTFA: "Think of what Sandy Hook might have been like if [...] even some of the huskier 12-year-old boys, had converged on Lanza." appears out of touch with reality. Setting aside the fact that the oldest boys present were about 10, even the most devoted partisans of masculinity would not wish to see 12-year-old boys charging into gunfire, nor would any sensible person expect them to change the outcome if they had done so.
 
2012-12-20 06:13:43 AM  
culprit:
: one accused of or charged with a crime  
 
The article comes no where close to saying that women should be accused of this crime.  What a troll headline.
 
2012-12-20 06:16:59 AM  

Rambino: What helpless passivity in a feminized setting may look like:

[www.nypost.com image 524x500]


That looks like the "before" picture in a Rhinoplasty ad to me.
 
2012-12-20 06:17:58 AM  

Gato Blanco: And conservatives wonder why women don't want anything to do with them.

Yeah, no, crawl back under the 11th century rock you Neanderthals came from.


The author of TFA is a woman. Or, at least, named after one.
 
2012-12-20 06:18:50 AM  

log_jammin: Sparky14439: And?

and I can find nothing that backs up your claim and would like some sort of citation.

thanks.


There were a lot of things NOT reported about O'Rourke in the mainstream press.

He planned the attack for over a year. He bought a .357 Ruger GP100 revolver from Duncan's Gun Works in San Marcos. He said the voices directing him told him to buy the revolver and load it with hollow points.

He emailed his brother stating he wanted to kill rich white kids.

He spray painted the walls of his apartment with several words including "Kill" and "Christian" - at the time of the shooting he had actually been evicted from that apartment.

His plan was to blow up a school bus using a 15 GALLON propane tank. He was going to block the bus lane with his car, drag the propane tank under the bus, and shoot the tank from a respectful distance until it exploded. And then effect a getaway. All the schools he scouted he had made notes on escape routes and traffic patterns. The gun was just to be used to intimidate the kids to stay in the bus, and to blow up the propane tank.

The day before he went on the playground shooting at Kelly Elementary he was spotted loitering in his car, a Crown Vic, outside of Poinsettia School. A vigilant resident in the neighborhood spotted him and called the police. That person was unable to supply a license plate number but the Carlsbad PD did have a BOLO on him at the time of the shooting.

The next day O'Rourke showed up at Kelly Elementary - He had a 15 Gallon Propane Tank, a Jerry can of gas - with about 5 quarts of gasoline in it, his revolver, and a pumpkin carved like a jack-o-lantern (It was October). He had a hooded sweatshirt and his pockets were full of extra ammo in half-moon speed clips and a box of fireplace matches.

O'Rourke waited for the kids to exit the school. The Crossing Guards came out, but the buses did not show up when he thought they should. O'Rourke panicked, he thought the buses weren't showing up because somehow his plan had been discovered. He tried to throw the propane tank over the fence, but was unable to lift it high enough (15 gallons of propane in a tank weighs like 100 pounds). So he threw the gas can over the fence, and he climbed over too - with the pumpkin. He left the propane tank next to his car.

O'Rourke opened fire on the kids, shooting one handed, and holding the pumpkin up in the other hand. Several people in the neighborhood heard the shots and ran towards the gunfire, including a very large female crossing guard. O'Rourke got flustered by the adults in the area screaming at him and running toward him, plus he had to move to evade capture. He was eventually tackled by two construction workers as he tried to get back to his car.

During Interrogation O'Rourke claimed no knowledge of shooting two little girls - he steadfastly claimed he was shooting the propane tank.

All of this was reported in court, and I believe in the San Diego Reader. Except the part about the pumpkin - that only was reported by the kids on the playground.
 
2012-12-20 06:24:52 AM  

Sparky14439: He was eventually tackled by two construction workers as he tried to get back to his car.


Large men to the rescue!
 
2012-12-20 06:25:07 AM  
Husky 12 year olds to 12 year old husks in two bullets.
 
2012-12-20 06:32:43 AM  

urban.derelict: what the f*ck are we feeding these kids all this violent imagery in video games, movies, and tv for if they're not going to be heroic -- didn't they hear about the aurora shooting in July? Yeah plead guilty, no case, safe in a fed pen my ass he's an assassin with no name raping hookers in south america


Medication wearing off again?
 
2012-12-20 06:33:50 AM  
So, last I checked:

1) The Principal tried to tackle she shooter.
2) One of the teachers selflessly threw herself in the path of bullets to save her class.
3) Both were women.
4) The National Review has a really bizarre definition of "helpless passivity".
5) It takes a lot of courage to write something like this, clearly.
 
2012-12-20 06:34:26 AM  

Sparky14439: All of this was reported in court, and I believe in the San Diego Reader.


cool.
 
Now do you have anything about him choosing the school because there were no men in sight? Because all I can find in the "mainstream media" is he choose the school due to easy access.
 
Thanks.
 
2012-12-20 06:35:55 AM  

Sparky14439: He was eventually tackled by two construction workers


after being hit by a truck.
 
Why do you keep omitting that part?
 
2012-12-20 06:41:35 AM  

Ed Grubermann: david_gaithersburg: One of the few well reasoned articles on the topic.

Goodbye, asshole.


cps-static.rovicorp.com
 
2012-12-20 06:41:50 AM  

Sparky14439: There were a lot of things NOT reported about O'Rourke in the mainstream press.


The mainstream press is shockingly bad about reporting on the planet Nibiru and the benefits of chelation therapy too.
 
2012-12-20 06:48:46 AM  
...looks like everyone's mentioned it.

Isn't it nice when all the diverse idealogues of Fark can sit together and agree that someone is a douchebag? Can world peace be far off?

Sill, I hope this isn't representative of National Review's present quality. There used to be all kinds of good stuff there (some of it admittedly unintentional -- it was funny to judge from their ads what kind of mutants they thought their readers were, but you could say the same of Mother Jones). Anyway, opinions are one thing, but glaring factual errors that could be averted with 5 minutes on the Internet are inexcusable for such a magazine.
 
2012-12-20 06:48:51 AM  

Alphax: Ed Grubermann: Alphax: Sparky14439: The shooter/would-be bomber at Kelly Elementary School in 2010 was unable to kill himself before being captured. He told police that the reason he chose Kelly Elementary school was specifically because after spending weeks scouting out all of the Carlsbad, CA elementary schools, Kelly School had the lowest fences and had no visible male employees or male crossing guards.

That's correct: The man who went and opened fire on a crowd of several hundred elementary school students on a playground in Carlsbad, CA on October 8, 2010 - stated he chose that school because the other schools he scouted out had visible male employees and male crossing guards.

Seems unlikely that someone would choose to shoot up a school, but not care which one, beyond visible security.

We're not talking about rational, sane people here. We're talking about people with severe mental problems. They are also often cowards who don't want to be stopped before they get to fulfill their goals of taking out as many helpless victims as they can before their guilt overwhelms them and they blow their own heads off.

I didn't say impossible.. but it just seems like if you wanted to shoot up a school, you'd have a particular one in mind before you made the decision. You know, to punish them for giving you a bad grade, or that classmate who wouldn't go out with you, something. If the particular school doesn't matter, then you're just trying to punish the World, and/or draw attention to yourself before you die a violent death.


O'Rourke chose the "softest" target he could find. He was a coward. He was a afraid that a man or men would stop him before he could complete his plan. He wanted to blow up a school bus of Kindergarteners. And exactly what he feared happened - two men ran him down and captured him.

He had NO (ZERO) ties to anyone in Carlsbad or Southern California. He had grown up in the midwest - and had moved to California to get away from the "conspiracy" that was after him in Illinois. He was a loner and worked in a Call Center for a company that provides arcade games to taverns.
 
2012-12-20 06:49:18 AM  
Why are conservatives so god damn stupid? Seriously, how did this happen?
 
2012-12-20 06:50:05 AM  

orbister: Sparky14439: There were a lot of things NOT reported about O'Rourke in the mainstream press.

The mainstream press is shockingly bad about reporting on the planet Nibiru and the benefits of chelation therapy too.


Lol,either back that shiat up with links or gtfo.
 
2012-12-20 06:51:28 AM  

ShannonKW: ...looks like everyone's mentioned it.

Isn't it nice when all the diverse idealogues of Fark can sit together and agree that someone is a douchebag? Can world peace be far off?

Sill, I hope this isn't representative of National Review's present quality. There used to be all kinds of good stuff there (some of it admittedly unintentional -- it was funny to judge from their ads what kind of mutants they thought their readers were, but you could say the same of Mother Jones). Anyway, opinions are one thing, but glaring factual errors that could be averted with 5 minutes on the Internet are inexcusable for such a magazine.


This is higher quality than their average.
 
2012-12-20 06:52:42 AM  

A Terrible Human: orbister: Sparky14439: There were a lot of things NOT reported about O'Rourke in the mainstream press.

The mainstream press is shockingly bad about reporting on the planet Nibiru and the benefits of chelation therapy too.

Lol,either back that shiat up with links or gtfo.


You want links to a lack of coverage of crack pot ideas? Sure. Here's an initial list:

Let me know if you want more.
 
2012-12-20 06:55:09 AM  

mittromneysdog: Why are conservatives so god damn stupid? Seriously, how did this happen?


Stupid people are, more or less by definition, less well equipped to deal with change. Change in the world or change in their own ideas. They therefore have a tendency to cling desperately to simplistic ideas, and since modern conservatism is full of simplistic ideas, the stupid are naturally attracted to it.

It's not exclusive, though. There are plenty of stupid people on the far left, or in nationalist parties, for precisely the same reason.
 
2012-12-20 06:55:23 AM  

mittromneysdog: Why are conservatives so god damn stupid? Seriously, how did this happen?


Something something Kenyan Muslim.
 
2012-12-20 06:59:53 AM  
God dammit, what is it with the conservative obsession with victim-blaming? It's like criminals are just this force of nature who we neither can nor should do anything about and who are in no way culpable for their actions. Everything bad happens because the victims (especially if they're women) did something wrong. "If only they'd been armed". "If only they hadn't been girls". "If only they'd been smart enough to do this or that".

Fark that, it's "If only a nutcase hadn't decided to steal his mother's guns and take his frustrations out on a class of 6 year-olds." It's the criminal's fault. It's always the criminal's fault. It does not matter who the victim was, because the criminal is fully responsible for taking the impetus to act. We're obsessed with putting forward policies to prevent the creation of victims, but we're relatively silent concerning policies to prevent the creation of criminals.

(and if this person is trying to blame the feminization of society, try pointing out the gender of the vast majority of the shooters in these incidents. Although, their response would probably be along the lines, "That's because women don't have the guts to do something like this," like it's a bad thing)
 
2012-12-20 07:00:11 AM  

A Terrible Human: orbister: Sparky14439: There were a lot of things NOT reported about O'Rourke in the mainstream press.

The mainstream press is shockingly bad about reporting on the planet Nibiru and the benefits of chelation therapy too.

Lol,either back that shiat up with links or gtfo.



Like I said. I am the source. I live and work in the community. I work for the PD. I know kids in the school. I know the ADA. I even know the guy who sold him the pistol!

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2012/apr/18/citylights2-brendan-or o urke/

"O'Rourke rejected Jefferson Elementary. The fences were too high and the adjoining streets too traffic-clogged for a fast getaway, and he noted the adult male crossing guard. O'Rourke also considered Poinsettia Elementary. His car, a light-colored Crown Victoria, was seen there one day before the shooting."
 
2012-12-20 07:01:44 AM  
Conservatism: Where women are only good for washing dishes and men are only good for catching bullets. Thank fark there's a large enough portion of the country with a less depressing worldview.
 
2012-12-20 07:04:55 AM  

mittromneysdog: Why are conservatives so god damn stupid? Seriously, how did this happen?


I thought I already linked to this.
 
2012-12-20 07:05:19 AM  
There's been a veritable  tsunamiof conservative derptitude this year.

I hope 2013 is just as memorable.
 
2012-12-20 07:05:31 AM  
The essential problem was a lack of door control.

So let's ban some form of weapon.

/Root failure analysis
 
2012-12-20 07:11:10 AM  
Sounds Michael Moore been writing for National Review

."Moore went into a rant about how the passengers on the Sept. 11 planes were scaredy cats because they were mostly white," Alibhai-Brown writes. "If the passengers had included black men, he claimed, those killers, with their puny bodies and unimpressive small knives, would have been crushed by the dudes, who as we all know take no disrespect from anybody."
 
2012-12-20 07:11:35 AM  
Well damn....Here I was all set to blame sight words.
 
2012-12-20 07:12:05 AM  

Gulper Eel: There's a shiatload of great reasons for there to be more male teachers, especially in elementary schools. ((csb) My dad was an elementary school teacher - the only one whose students never used construction paper for anything unless it was battleship gray.(/csb))

As far as the positives of male teachers go, massacre prevention comes in somewhere behind "can get the folding wall in the gym unstuck".


As a former male elementary school teacher, there are a shiatload of great reasons. There's also the fact that about 70% of the teachers and admins automatically challenge your authority or assume you're a child molester.
 
2012-12-20 07:16:48 AM  

mittromneysdog: Why are conservatives so god damn stupid? Seriously, how did this happen?


Seriously? I think it's mainly a problem of not being able to slap down your own, so when they run riot there's no one to rein them in. And, of course your opponents aren't going to stop them making a mockery of your cause.

The same thing happens to liberals. Remember Afrocentrism, just to take one example. You had these nut-jobs rewriting history and generally being schizophrenic in public, and the liberals just had to grin a bear it because they needed them for the votes. Well, now it looks like conservatives are getting their chance to facepalm over drunk relatives.

There's nothing wrong with people who favor restraint and traditionalism in matters of policy any more than there is with those who favor new approaches with a view to improve things. The sincere moderates on both sides of the divide are sane and well-meaning. It's too bad that they find it so hard to compromise and work together because we let raving freaks polarize us.
 
2012-12-20 07:17:15 AM  

Sparky14439: O'Rourke chose the "softest" target he could find. He was a coward. He was a afraid that a man or men would stop him before he could complete his plan. He wanted to blow up a school bus of Kindergarteners. And exactly what he feared happened - two men ran him down and captured him.

He had NO (ZERO) ties to anyone in Carlsbad or Southern California. He had grown up in the midwest - and had moved to California to get away from the "conspiracy" that was after him in Illinois. He was a loner and worked in a Call Center for a company that provides arcade games to taverns.


I have to admit that a lot of what you've posted about this guy (presuming it's true) would have sent up all kinds of red flags to me. The fact that nobody seems to have known that he suffers from paranoid schizophrenia or reported the creepy things about him to the police is astonishing. I don't know anyone who spray paints their apartment walls, and even if I did, the words "Kill" and "Christian" would be HUGE giveaways. I don't know anyone who is such a loner that they literally have zero contact with their coworkers. And what about his family? If they didn't hear from him in weeks, let alone months or years, that would be incredibly strange to me. I'm baffled as to how nobody ever reported these kinds of things to somebody...whether its the police or just their boss. The breakdown that let him live for what I presume is at least a year without someone talking to him, suggesting he get help, trying to be a friend, etc., is just unbelievable. Not that anyone is responsible for the attack other than him, but still, someone should have said something.

Beyond that, he is exactly the kind of person who an affirmative mental health certification requirement would have caught and prevented from buying a gun. And it probably would have saved him a trip to jail and get him the help he obviously needs to live a balanced life.
 
2012-12-20 07:18:13 AM  

giftedmadness: Wow, yet another misleading and trollish headline on fark. The person who submitted this headline makes the leap from "more males on campus might have prevented the tragedy" to "the women on campus are responsible for the tragedy". What a leap of logic! What a worthless troll. Of course men are more likely to stop someone than women. Protip: Men are stronger and more likely to stop someone via their strength than women are. Is that such a shocker? That does not mean that the women on site should be held responsible for the gunmen's actions. Nobody is saying that. Trollish, straw manish, dumbfarks.


Except that the women are to blame for failing to stop it. They ARE responsible for it.
 
2012-12-20 07:19:51 AM  
Male aggression can be a good thing, as in protecting the weak - but it has been forced out of the culture of elementary schools and the education schools that train their personnel.

She's not blaming women, she's blaming a "feminized" (read: "effeminate") culture that excludes masculine values of aggressive defense against threats.

So, yeah. She's blaming the queers. It's the same reason we're losing the war in Afghanistan.
 
2012-12-20 07:21:04 AM  
I just heard NPR last week complaining about lack of male teachers in schools.
 
2012-12-20 07:21:47 AM  
Oh, good freaking grief.

OK, so I actually agree that our society has taken on an attitude of helplessness and passivity that has indeed become extremely problematic. It might even have played a role in magnifying damage here. But to call this passivity "essentially feminine" is ludicrous, and to start drawing conclusions about male and female authority based on this ridiculous assumption is even worse.
 
2012-12-20 07:26:17 AM  
Oh, yay! Mr. Vasoline is here to out-troll the trolls!
 
2012-12-20 07:27:08 AM  
We should use genetics to breed human-halibut hybrids, because halibuts can change gender when needed.

We can also breed Glocks built right into the right hand.
 
2012-12-20 07:27:31 AM  

Mouser: Male aggression can be a good thing, as in protecting the weak - but it has been forced out of the culture of elementary schools and the education schools that train their personnel.

She's not blaming women, she's blaming a "feminized" (read: "effeminate") culture that excludes masculine values of aggressive defense against threats.

So, yeah. She's blaming the queers. It's the same reason we're losing the war in Afghanistan.


Gay.
 
2012-12-20 07:27:59 AM  

Sparky14439: Like I said. I am the source. I live and work in the community. I work for the PD. I know kids in the school. I know the ADA. I even know the guy who sold him the pistol!


That's very ... convincing. I'll tell the Queen when I have lunch with her tomorrow.
 
2012-12-20 07:32:07 AM  

giftedmadness: Serious Black: giftedmadness: Wow, yet another misleading and trollish headline on fark.  The person who submitted this headline makes the leap from "more males on campus might have prevented the tragedy" to "the women on campus are responsible for the tragedy".  What a leap of logic!  What a worthless troll.  Of course men are more likely to stop someone than women.  Protip:  Men are stronger and more likely to stop someone via their strength than women are.  Is that such a shocker?  That does not mean that the women on site should be held responsible for the gunmen's actions.  Nobody is saying that.  Trollish, straw manish, dumbfarks.

QFTA: "But in general, a feminized setting is a setting in which helpless passivity is the norm."

I'm really glad your posts show up in bright orange now.

Yes, that statement is true.  What about my statement was wrong?


Being bigger and stronger does nit protect tou from bullets, ass.

The principal, a woman, leapt from her chair toward the shooting and died trying to stop the shooter.

Ass.
 
2012-12-20 07:37:17 AM  

doglover: I blame (group you hate here) because they (action you don't like) so we should (your political goal here)!


doglover: I blame Mexican drug cartels because they play loud music so we should legalize lawn darts.


I like the way you think.
 
2012-12-20 07:40:42 AM  
Women are the most responsible for a shift to liberalism, so sure, why not?

Going to get worse before it gets better. Now all you liberal "men" are not even men anymore, just womanized males.
 
2012-12-20 07:42:04 AM  

Thunderpipes: Women are the most responsible for a shift to liberalism, so sure, why not?

Going to get worse before it gets better. Now all you liberal "men" are not even men anymore, just womanized males.


Adam Lanza, now there was a man.
 
2012-12-20 07:46:21 AM  

Thunderpipes: Women are the most responsible for a shift to liberalism, so sure, why not?

Going to get worse before it gets better. Now all you liberal "men" are not even men anymore, just womanized males.

You put in mind of one of those people who has crazy ass self written signs on their cars or the people who sit with signs saying Hell is Hot. You wanna stir shiat but you're also a little out there. Mental illness and misogyny isn't a good mix.
 
2012-12-20 07:48:47 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Thunderpipes: Women are the most responsible for a shift to liberalism, so sure, why not?

Going to get worse before it gets better. Now all you liberal "men" are not even men anymore, just womanized males.

Adam Lanza, now there was a man.


And James Holmes too. He was a man's man.
 
2012-12-20 07:50:37 AM  
Completely stupid. No matter how jacked you are, no matter how built you are, you don't "rush" an active shooter, unless you like dying. No achievable amount of muscle mass will stop a bullet.

Using Flight 93 is an extremely retarded analogy. The terrorists on 9-11 did not have guns!
 
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