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(LA Times)   Boehner is gathering support for Plan B, Obama vows to abort it if passed   (latimes.com) divider line 45
    More: Obvious, Boehner, President Obama, Ohio Republican, vows  
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1121 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Dec 2012 at 10:33 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-19 08:22:29 PM
 
2012-12-19 09:38:53 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: It would raise taxes on the middle class.



I looked at your link, and it links to this page of the tax policy center, which has four tables which confuse the hell out of me. One set says that it reviews the law based on "current law" and the other on "current policy." The numbers are wildly different. For instance, "current policy" says that 48.3% of the top 1% get an average tax cut of $240, while "current law" says 99.9%  of the top 1% would get a tax cut of $59,780. So I have no idea how to interpret any of that.
 
Can someone help me out here?
 
2012-12-19 09:48:48 PM

nmrsnr: Can someone help me out here?

 
 
Another explanation. Link
 
It looks like the it's the devils in the tax credits.
 
www.washingtonpost.com
 
2012-12-19 09:51:15 PM
Woah. That's enough typing for one day.
 
2012-12-19 10:13:56 PM

nmrsnr: Can someone help me out here?



Ah, figured it out. "Current Law" is exactly what it says, if the law is unchanged, so next year all the tax breaks go away and everyone feels a big tax hike, so the tax cuts compared to that is huge. "Current Policy" is how it compares to taxes as they currently are, so really that's the only one we care about.
 
Thanks me.
 
2012-12-19 10:40:49 PM
CBO scored it and said it would raise the deficit.
 
2012-12-19 10:43:28 PM
Boehner's only doing this to remain Speaker. He knows if he moves toward Obama at all before January 3rd- as in, after we've already gone off the cliff- he runs the risk of not being Speaker anymore.
 
2012-12-19 10:44:39 PM
Does Boehner feel that Obama is worried about not being inaugurated in January or something?

Given the situation, Obama is going to be more willing to say "fark it, lets go with the jan 1 deal." And, there is four years for the economy to take a hit and start to recover before worrying about the democratic presidential hopefuls.
 
2012-12-19 10:46:47 PM

bulldg4life: Does Boehner feel that Obama is worried about not being inaugurated in January or something?


Boehner feels that Eric Cantor would really like to be Speaker and that vote hasn't been held yet. If Boehner deals before the 3rd, Cantor will be Speaker.
 
2012-12-19 10:47:45 PM
Well it's nice to finally see Rublicans coming around to Plan B. All we need now is support in general of women's reproductive rights, support in general of women's rights, support of gay rights, the rights of minorities in general, sensible health care, sensible defense spending, sensible foreign policy, sensible healthcare spending, and sensible gun-control and maybe they'll have entered the 20th century.

/God I love how all this cotton candy makes the universe look
 
2012-12-19 10:47:58 PM
As a mostly party-line Republican, I can't help thinking that Boehner would get far more support if he didn't look so goddamn creepy in every photo ever taken.
 
2012-12-19 10:51:20 PM

gunsmack: As a mostly party-line Republican, I can't help thinking that Boehner would get far more support if he didn't look so goddamn creepy in every photo ever taken.


What? Half leering, half crying, all orange doesn't do it for you?
 
2012-12-19 10:52:49 PM
It's not going to pass anyway. Boner doesn't have enough support in the House, and it sure won't pass the Senate.
Anyone else get a laugh at his temper tantrum today?
 
2012-12-19 10:54:05 PM
cinepad.com
 
2012-12-19 11:02:26 PM
I'm still holding out for the RU-486 fiscal plan.

I know they won't let me down!
 
2012-12-19 11:06:29 PM
I hope the house dems vote 'Present' for the PLan B plan. Make the republicans see just how much they actually support it...
 
2012-12-19 11:21:23 PM

NewportBarGuy: I'm still holding out for the RU-486 fiscal plan.

I know they won't let me down!


Im hoping for plan BR549.
 
2012-12-19 11:25:20 PM
i90.photobucket.com

I'm Leonard Pinth Garnell, with another episode of Bad One-Man Politcal Theatre
 
2012-12-19 11:30:52 PM
Does anyone else think its kinda funny that his bill is called Plan B?

http://www.planbonestep.com/
 
2012-12-19 11:34:40 PM
My guess is that Obama is making some of these concessions assuming that the Tea Baggers will revolt.  With the new CBO report out on Plan B, Boehner is going to have to twist some arms.  If it doesn't work and we go off the cliff, Obama can say to the people that at least he offered compromises and then he'll be able to get more aggressive.
 
2012-12-19 11:35:13 PM
Boehner's playing chicken with the welfare of the American people. As others have noted, he has to maintain his conservative creds so he's pulling back from reaching a genuine accommodation. He will reach an agreement before the January deadline though, because there's a big difference between not being re-elected Speaker in 2013 and not being re-elected period in 2014. As it is his political career is probably over. What's stupid is that Obama has once again proven himself to be easily manipulated. He's come down $400 billion in his offers while the repubs have not gone far beyond admitting that new revenues are necessary. The result is that if when, after wasting a few more days posturing, a last minute agreement is reached, Boehner will not have achieved the maximum deal for his fat cat cronies. He's a bad negotiator, a bad Speaker, a bad legislator and a bad person.
 
2012-12-19 11:35:32 PM

pinual: Does anyone else think its kinda funny that his bill is called Plan B?

http://www.planbonestep.com/


plan bone? Now that's irony.
 
2012-12-19 11:37:18 PM
So what do you think Boehner could possibly be saying to the Tea Partiers and Norquist lovers in his caucus? He has to convince them to vote to *gasp* raise taxes! What does he tell them the upside is?
 
2012-12-19 11:44:50 PM

Dusk-You-n-Me: nmrsnr: Can someone help me out here?
 
 
Another explanation. Link
 
It looks like the it's the devils in the tax credits.
 
[www.washingtonpost.com image 606x493]


That graph doesn't help at all. We might need actual  words for this one, fellas.
 
2012-12-19 11:50:40 PM

nmrsnr: So what do you think Boehner could possibly be saying to the Tea Partiers and Norquist lovers in his caucus? He has to convince them to vote to *gasp* raise taxes! What does he tell them the upside is?


They're f*cking retarded. All he has to do is tell them they'll get a free slice of cake and they'll vote for it.
 
2012-12-19 11:51:30 PM

clambam: Boehner's playing chicken with the welfare of the American people. As others have noted, he has to maintain his conservative creds so he's pulling back from reaching a genuine accommodation. He will reach an agreement before the January deadline though, because there's a big difference between not being re-elected Speaker in 2013 and not being re-elected period in 2014. As it is his political career is probably over. What's stupid is that Obama has once again proven himself to be easily manipulated. He's come down $400 billion in his offers while the repubs have not gone far beyond admitting that new revenues are necessary. The result is that if when, after wasting a few more days posturing, a last minute agreement is reached, Boehner will not have achieved the maximum deal for his fat cat cronies. He's a bad negotiator, a bad Speaker, a bad legislator and a bad person.


Relax.  Don't get upset until we see the final deal.  Obama knows that the GOP is fractured and the Tea Baggers can still blow this whole thing up.  If he pushes too hard right now, he risks uniting them.  If they blow it up, then they basically give him all of the leverage going forward.  Let the process play out.
 
2012-12-19 11:52:52 PM

NewportBarGuy: nmrsnr: So what do you think Boehner could possibly be saying to the Tea Partiers and Norquist lovers in his caucus? He has to convince them to vote to *gasp* raise taxes! What does he tell them the upside is?

They're f*cking retarded. All he has to do is tell them they'll get a free slice of cake and they'll vote for it.


Norquist has already said that raising taxes on the over $1 million crowd doesn't count as a tax increase (probably because he knows people that rich probably aren't paying taxes anyway).
 
2012-12-20 12:05:27 AM

clambam: What's stupid is that Obama has once again proven himself to be easily manipulated. He's come down $400 billion in his offers while the repubs have not gone far beyond admitting that new revenues are necessary. The result is that if when, after wasting a few more days posturing, a last minute agreement is reached, Boehner will not have achieved the maximum deal for his fat cat cronies. He's a bad negotiator, a bad Speaker, a bad legislator and a bad person.


You forget, Obama plays the long game. He knows by now that the GOP is pretty much locked in to not accepting anything that isn't everything they want. He knows the American people are already inclined to blame the GOP for not taking a deal. All he did is help that inclination along. He offered enough to make the American people confident that he really does want a deal (and he does), but not enough to make the GOP actually deal. He knew there was a sweet spot in there.

He also by now has to know we're probably heading off the cliff and there wasn't much he could have offered beyond complete and total surrender if he actually wanted to make a deal now. So he might as well just go ahead and set up the media to fall upon the GOP like a pack of hyenas after New Year's.
 
2012-12-20 12:07:59 AM

Mentat: Norquist has already said that raising taxes on the over $1 million crowd doesn't count as a tax increase (probably because he knows people that rich probably aren't paying taxes anyway).

 
Well, honest answer?
 
It's either Boehner's abortion bill or they have to swallow full tax increases for everyone on Jan 1st. He can sell it like that. That's basically what he tried to do with his 12 second press conference. They either vote for his piece of sh*t bill, or they get new tax rates for everyone.
 
I think this is the sign that they won't make a deal. Rates will reset on the 1st and they will negotiate from there. However... After that happens, I have a feeling that Republicans will oppose any goddamn thing at all, just like they've done since 2010.
 
I don't really give a sh*t at this point. I am angry because my economics teachings tell me that increasing rates on those from $35k-100K is going to destroy all gains we've made in consumer spending/sentiment/confidence... We are a consumer economy. If we f*ck over our consumers, we basically f*ck ourselves.  But, fine. The other side has lost that mathematical/factual debate but just refuses to concede the point. We'll be stuck with 90's tax rates. It won't be like the 90's. Were taking real money out of the economy by doing that. We're also getting massive governmental cuts which will also impact GDP.
 
I've had it with these f*cking people. They want to shield 1% of people at the expense of our entire economy. They can go f*ck themselves. I'm sick of this sh*t. We don't negotiate with terrorists or the mentally challenged.
 
I hope the president stays firm.
 
2012-12-20 12:33:57 AM
Let me just add...
 
Republicans actually blocked a bill to give tax credits to employers for hiring workers.
 
How f*cked up is that? They espouse the genius of the entrepreneurial spirit, yet vote down tax credits for just that sort of thing. Providing tax credits for actual job creation. Voted down by Republicans.
 
They are the Know Nothing Party.
 
2012-12-20 12:41:38 AM

NewportBarGuy: Let me just add...

Republicans actually blocked a bill to give tax credits to employers for hiring workers.

How f*cked up is that? They espouse the genius of the entrepreneurial spirit, yet vote down tax credits for just that sort of thing. Providing tax credits for actual job creation. Voted down by Republicans.

They are the Know Nothing Party.


That's because they merely pay lip service to supporting entrepreneurs. Who they really want to support are the ridiculously rich.
 
2012-12-20 12:45:26 AM
Oh, and I have to say, I love Bob Greenstein's take on why the negotiations are collapsing thanks to Republican intransigence: "If you follow Boehner's logic here, then the only deal that is acceptable would have to be a deal to the right of where Obama and Boehner were in the July 2011 negotiations - even though Obama won the subsequent election, and Boehner's party lost."
 
2012-12-20 12:46:15 AM

Mentat: CBO scored it and said it would raise the deficit.


You got a link to that score?
 
2012-12-20 12:53:08 AM

Serious Black: Mentat: CBO scored it and said it would raise the deficit.

 
You got a link to that score?
 
Usually, I ask for such things. However... in the last 30 years. When hasn't a Republican economic plan added to the deficit?
 
Aside from George HW Bush's tax hike. He got voted out for doing the right thing, with a LOT of help from H. Ross... I'll always give that Bush credit for doing the right thing when he had to. He was a good president.
 
Also, you can't give welfare cuts solely to the Contract For America crew... Clinton was in the same mold as Obama, very moderate in fiscal concerns. I mean... he has Little Timmy Geithner over at Treasury he's been hawkish on Defense. The man is a moderate to anyone who is paying attention. I just wish they'd feel free to work with him and stop worrying about these tea-bagging idiots.
 
2012-12-20 12:59:21 AM

NewportBarGuy: Serious Black: Mentat: CBO scored it and said it would raise the deficit.

You got a link to that score?

Usually, I ask for such things. However... in the last 30 years. When hasn't a Republican economic plan added to the deficit?


Oh, I don't doubt that it does add to the deficit, especially if they're scoring it compared to current law rather than current policy. I'm just curious for my own benefit.
 
2012-12-20 01:04:36 AM

Serious Black: Mentat: CBO scored it and said it would raise the deficit.

 
You got a link to that score?
 
Nothing formal yet, but there is this and a lot of talk on Twitter.
 
2012-12-20 01:09:02 AM

Serious Black: Oh, I don't doubt that it does add to the deficit, especially if they're scoring it compared to current law rather than current policy.


The only reason I'm touchy is the current AssSpeaker's contention that using inflation-adjusted numbers is now akin to witchcraft. I mean, this is not Moody's failing to acknowledge that housing could ever possibly go down in their financial models. However, it's close. You have to index to inflation if you are using multiple years. It's a rough estimate, but you have to assume some growth, unless you are banking on static or negative growth over the time-span of the amount discussed.
 
I hope you get your numbers, but double check them, even if they are from CBO.
 
2012-12-20 01:10:49 AM
heh. Suby *rattles the knife around* in the mayonnaise jar.

/dry sandwiches are the pits
 
2012-12-20 01:15:53 AM

MacEnvy: Dusk-You-n-Me: nmrsnr: Can someone help me out here?


Another explanation. Link

It looks like the it's the devils in the tax credits.

[www.washingtonpost.com image 606x493]

That graph doesn't help at all. We might need actual  words for this one, fellas.


It almost looks like there are tax increases on incomes
 
2012-12-20 01:53:10 AM
I knew Obama knew there would be no deal. Why else give them social security cuts? It just makes them look even worse when they reject it.
 
2012-12-20 02:09:37 AM

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: I knew Obama knew there would be no deal. Why else give them social security cuts? It just makes them look even worse when they reject it.


It's not enough that senior citizens be allowed to eat dog food instead of steak. I demand they have to eat grass and squirrels they killed in their backyards!
 
2012-12-20 03:40:30 AM

Serious Black: It's not enough that senior citizens be allowed to eat dog food instead of steak. I demand they have to eat grass and squirrels they killed in their backyards!


What an outrage!

That kind of thing is usually voluntary, and mostly confined to the South
 
2012-12-20 05:35:41 AM

NewportBarGuy: nmrsnr: So what do you think Boehner could possibly be saying to the Tea Partiers and Norquist lovers in his caucus? He has to convince them to vote to *gasp* raise taxes! What does he tell them the upside is?

They're f*cking retarded. All he has to do is tell them they'll get a free slice of cake and they'll vote for it.


Better yet, he tells them the poors don't get any cake. They'll definitely vote for it.
 
2012-12-20 07:48:40 AM
Only thing I could think of when I heard about "Plan B":

http://youtu.be/LQ9p2XIOiFA
 
2012-12-20 08:24:32 AM
Why not just go Falcon Punch plan?
 
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