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(Reason Magazine)   Teachers' union leaders do weep for the dead of Newtown - but what about all the kids killed by charter schools each year?   (reason.com) divider line 59
    More: Asinine, Newtown, charter schools, merit pays, David Rosenberg, Chicago Teachers Union, Sandy Hook, Diane Ravitch, school reform  
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2791 clicks; posted to Politics » on 19 Dec 2012 at 6:41 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-19 04:19:48 PM  
There's nothing to say about this stupid article except, "Why was it greenlit?"
 
2012-12-19 04:32:46 PM  
So just because they are part of a union they care more for their kids?  How many people did they have to interview before they found this half wit?!
 
2012-12-19 04:34:24 PM  
Seems like a strange time to worry about charter schools.
 
2012-12-19 04:37:04 PM  
Wow. Since Reason started their right-ward and kinda crazy drift awhile back I agree with them about once or twice a year. This is one of those times. 
 
I work at a charter school. I have no doubt the majority - no, all - of the teachers here would respond the same way in a similar situation. Our first priority would be our students, as always. 
 
2012-12-19 04:37:39 PM  

James!: Seems like a strange time to worry about charter schools.



Weingarten can't help it. It's like she's programmed that she MUST bring them up whenever something happens. She hates them that much. 
 
2012-12-19 04:39:48 PM  

Kimothy: James!: Seems like a strange time to worry about charter schools.


Weingarten can't help it. It's like she's programmed that she MUST bring them up whenever something happens. She hates them that much.



Well, we all know you charter school employees will use the children as human shields if a gunman ever came through the door.  
 
2012-12-19 04:45:58 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: There's nothing to say about this stupid article except, "Why was it greenlit?"



 
 
2012-12-19 04:59:07 PM  

James!: Kimothy: James!: Seems like a strange time to worry about charter schools.


Weingarten can't help it. It's like she's programmed that she MUST bring them up whenever something happens. She hates them that much.


Well, we all know you charter school employees will use the children as human shields if a gunman ever came through the door.



Yeah, I've got my eye on the 6'8" kid in the corner. He'd block two of me. 
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-19 05:33:56 PM  

Since I have journeyed into inner derpistan, here is what she said:

Every one of the teachers was a career educator. Every one was doing exactly what she wanted to do. They've worked in a school that was not obsessed with testing but with the needs of children. This we know: the staff at Sandy Hook loved their students. They put their students first, even before their own lives.
Oh, and one other thing, all these dedicated teachers belonged to a union. The senior teachers had tenure, despite the fact that "reformers" (led by ConnCAN, StudentsFirst, and hedge fund managers) did their best last spring to diminish their tenure and to tie their evaluations to test scores....
Newtown does not need a charter school. What it needs now is healing. Not competition, not division, but a community coming together to help one another. Together. Not competing.
 Basically defending the teachers who were killed against people who were trashing them for political reasons.
 
Oh and there is her blog, so you can read the whole thing:
 
http://dianeravitch.net/2012/12/17/the-hero-teachers-of-newtown/ 
 
2012-12-19 05:39:01 PM  
The GOP: never willing to let a national tragedy stop them from bashing unions.
 
2012-12-19 05:40:05 PM  
What the foaming ultranationalist hipster fark?
 
2012-12-19 06:48:10 PM  
Wow, Reason, way to twist what was said into a goddamn pretzel to advance your rightwing bullshiat. Fark you all.
 
2012-12-19 06:49:07 PM  
Goddamn it.
 
2012-12-19 06:51:27 PM  
Reason doesnt.
 
2012-12-19 06:54:20 PM  
FTA: The deaths in Newtown were a tragedy.

See?! Reason can be accurate!!!
 
2012-12-19 06:54:54 PM  

Kimothy: Wow. Since Reason started their right-ward and kinda crazy drift awhile back I agree with them about once or twice a year. This is one of those times.


I disagree. I don't think Weingarten's words were meant to imply that charter school teachers don't care about their kids, but to rebut the oft-leveled accusations that public school teachers (read: unionized teachers) don't. They obviously do care very deeply about their kids, and the sacrifices we saw at Sandy Hook are proof enough of that.
 
2012-12-19 06:56:06 PM  
Next up: Anthony Bourdain uses the mutilated corpses of the Newtown school massacre to make a statement about school lunches.
 
2012-12-19 06:59:05 PM  
When are people going to stop trying to make Sandy Hook a major talking point in favor of their personal pet issue?

Don't these assholes know it's really all about *my* pet issue? The farkin' nerve, I swear.
 
2012-12-19 06:59:42 PM  
WTF was the that article even about???
 
2012-12-19 07:01:39 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Next up: Anthony Bourdain uses the mutilated corpses of the Newtown school massacre to make a statement about school lunches.


While Andrew Zimmern and Adam Richman eat them.
 
2012-12-19 07:04:49 PM  
They seem to take issue with this excerpt from her follow-up after the criticism:

Rosenberg's "false outrage" needs to be checked. That same false outrage should show itself when policies his colleagues support kill and disenfranchise children from schools across this nation.

And I guess Rosenburg is VP of a charter school group.

So even in context, it does seem to be that she's suggesting charter schools kill children. Maybe they even do, indirectly, but she invites this by not elaborating.
 
2012-12-19 07:11:25 PM  

Kimothy: I work at a charter school.


Why do you hate children?
 
2012-12-19 07:12:39 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Kimothy: Wow. Since Reason started their right-ward and kinda crazy drift awhile back I agree with them about once or twice a year. This is one of those times.

I disagree. I don't think Weingarten's words were meant to imply that charter school teachers don't care about their kids, but to rebut the oft-leveled accusations that public school teachers (read: unionized teachers) don't. They obviously do care very deeply about their kids, and the sacrifices we saw at Sandy Hook are proof enough of that.


That's what I got out of it.

I don't know what the hell Karen Lewis was talking about, though.
 
2012-12-19 07:17:38 PM  

vpb: Oh and there is her blog, so you can read the whole thing:
 
http://dianeravitch.net/2012/12/17/the-hero-teachers-of-newtown/


"Everyone of them is a hero, those who died and those who survived."

Yes. That's true. They were.

"Oh, and one other thing, all these dedicated teachers belonged to a union."

Um, ok. I fail to see the relevance.

"Governor Dannell Malloy has led the effort in his state to expand charter schools and high-stakes testing."

I think you may be straying off topic here.

"Let us hope Governor Malloy learned something these past few days about the role of public schools in their communities."

That children die in them? What's your point?
 
2012-12-19 07:20:38 PM  
Karen lewis cares so much that she wouldnt protect your children for an extra 16% over 4 years.
 
2012-12-19 07:29:05 PM  

jigger: "Oh, and one other thing, all these dedicated teachers belonged to a union."


They deserve someone willing to fight for them, given that everyone expects them to be willing to do die to protect their charges.
 
2012-12-19 07:29:43 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Kimothy: Wow. Since Reason started their right-ward and kinda crazy drift awhile back I agree with them about once or twice a year. This is one of those times.

I disagree. I don't think Weingarten's words were meant to imply that charter school teachers don't care about their kids, but to rebut the oft-leveled accusations that public school teachers (read: unionized teachers) don't. They obviously do care very deeply about their kids, and the sacrifices we saw at Sandy Hook are proof enough of that.


Both the article and the email are (to put it charitably) way off base. The idea that ANYONE in that situation, whether they are "unionized public school teachers", charter school private teachers, or the freaking janitor, wouldn't be doing his or her level best to save the kids, is asinine. And the idea that somehow a charter teacher (because she's not in a union?) would not where a public teacher (because she is?) would is just disgusting and the thinker should be ashamed for having it.
 
If anyone needs an example of politicizing a tragedy, this is it. In spades.
 
2012-12-19 07:37:41 PM  
Have you ever been in a school? The idea that afults who don't care about children would ever willingly walk into one is absolutely absurd.

Now I don't doubt many teachers are burnt out and in some situations may just want to snag a paycheck and go home but seriously, who goes to college and says 'fark I hate kids, but I will become a teacher because the pay is awesome.'

/works for a charter school
 
2012-12-19 07:47:14 PM  
Somebody else has climbed on board the "using tragic events for my issue" bandwagon I see.

Saying it again... Exploiting a tragic event for personal or political reasons is repugnant and shameful unless they're your reasons, then they're valid and must be talked about right now because there is no better time and...

Whether you're promoting gun control, promoting armed guards/teachers, denouncing the NRA, promoting religious ideas, pro-unions, anti-union, pro-tenure, anti-tenure... whatever the hell it is you are promoting you are exploiting the tragedy. You either accept that you're doing that and make yourself okay with it or you will take a step back to respond to everyone else doing it, picking out what works for you.

As for the gist of the article. Most adults will go out of their way to protect children. It doesn't matter what their political or personal beliefs are most of the time.
 
2012-12-19 07:48:49 PM  
Sounds like the president of the union was using the tragedy to make a counter-attack against ConnCAN, StudentsFirst, etc. But then, maybe ConnCAN, etc drew first blood.

Charter schools are great things. But, the genie is out of the bottle and for-profit corporations are running charter school chains. That shift in balance of power and money is going to have a major impact on the future of American education. The first major salvos are already being fired.
 
2012-12-19 07:51:58 PM  

PonceAlyosha: jigger: "Oh, and one other thing, all these dedicated teachers belonged to a union."

They deserve someone willing to fight for them, given that everyone expects them to be willing to do die to protect their charges.


So you don't think that she was trying to steer the anguish and anger about the shooting toward her political enemies? It was just stream of consciousness?
 
2012-12-19 07:52:55 PM  

INeedAName: works for a charter school


Why do you support policies that kill and disenfranchise our children?
 
2012-12-19 07:53:07 PM  

INeedAName: Have you ever been in a school? The idea that afults who don't care about children would ever willingly walk into one is absolutely absurd.

Now I don't doubt many teachers are burnt out and in some situations may just want to snag a paycheck and go home but seriously, who goes to college and says 'fark I hate kids, but I will become a teacher because the pay is awesome.'

/works for a charter school


Reason apparently thinks so since they crafted this bogus argument over something that was never said.
 
2012-12-19 07:56:34 PM  

randomjsa: Somebody else has climbed on board the "using tragic events for my issue" bandwagon I see.

Saying it again... Exploiting a tragic event for personal or political reasons is repugnant and shameful unless they're your reasons, then they're valid and must be talked about right now because there is no better time and...

Whether you're promoting gun control, promoting armed guards/teachers, denouncing the NRA, promoting religious ideas, pro-unions, anti-union, pro-tenure, anti-tenure... whatever the hell it is you are promoting you are exploiting the tragedy. You either accept that you're doing that and make yourself okay with it or you will take a step back to respond to everyone else doing it, picking out what works for you.

As for the gist of the article. Most adults will go out of their way to protect children. It doesn't matter what their political or personal beliefs are most of the time.


This. randomjsa points out the exact truth here, As unpleasant as it is to admit it, events like the Sandy Hook shootings trigger social action by many people. We can't not respond to events like this, it's visceral. So accept that you are going to see people capitalizing on this issue for many causes. Some you will agree with, some you will not. All of it feels dirty because it seems to be exploiting tragedy, all of it is the normal consequence of the enormous disruption this massacre was of how we all individually and collectively think things should be.
 
2012-12-19 08:04:07 PM  

INeedAName: Have you ever been in a school? The idea that afults who don't care about children would ever willingly walk into one is absolutely absurd.

Now I don't doubt many teachers are burnt out and in some situations may just want to snag a paycheck and go home but seriously, who goes to college and says 'fark I hate kids, but I will become a teacher because the pay is awesome.'

/works for a charter school



Ha! Your massive generalization that you understand the minds of every teacher ever is absurd. As one of the few people who regularly observes every classroom in my district, I can damn well tell you that I can name a handful of teachers here that do not like children.
 
Tenure is a biatch though. If the gov and it's citizens really cared about teachers they'd jack the pay up $20k a pop and get rid of tenure and the concept of seniority all together.
 
2012-12-19 08:07:44 PM  

PapaChester: INeedAName: Have you ever been in a school? The idea that afults who don't care about children would ever willingly walk into one is absolutely absurd.

Now I don't doubt many teachers are burnt out and in some situations may just want to snag a paycheck and go home but seriously, who goes to college and says 'fark I hate kids, but I will become a teacher because the pay is awesome.'

/works for a charter school


Ha! Your massive generalization that you understand the minds of every teacher ever is absurd. As one of the few people who regularly observes every classroom in my district, I can damn well tell you that I can name a handful of teachers here that do not like children.

Tenure is a biatch though. If the gov and it's citizens really cared about teachers they'd jack the pay up $20k a pop and get rid of tenure and the concept of seniority all together.


See: second paragraph.
Reading Comprehension: C-
 
2012-12-19 08:17:16 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Both the article and the email are (to put it charitably) way off base. The idea that ANYONE in that situation, whether they are "unionized public school teachers", charter school private teachers, or the freaking janitor, wouldn't be doing his or her level best to save the kids, is asinine. And the idea that somehow a charter teacher (because she's not in a union?) would not where a public teacher (because she is?) would is just disgusting and the thinker should be ashamed for having it.


I'd ask you to point out where anyone said that charter teachers care less than public school teachers, but you'll just go on bashing those that defend unions.
 
2012-12-19 08:24:44 PM  
Question for conservatives who want to force teachers to carry:

Why do you want people you call "thugs" to be armed?
 
2012-12-19 08:25:27 PM  
Wow. Ravitch and Lewis are awful, awful people.

But what did randi weingarten say? I didn't see her name in TFA.
 
2012-12-19 08:25:50 PM  

Kimothy: Wow. Since Reason started their right-ward and kinda crazy carzy drift awhile back I agree with them about once or twice a year. This is one of those times.

I work at a charter school. I have no doubt the majority - no, all - of the teachers here would respond the same way in a similar situation. Our first priority would be our students, as always.


/ftfthe article
 
2012-12-19 08:39:59 PM  
I see the dams holding back the derp have finally burst.
 
2012-12-19 08:42:16 PM  
i273.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-19 08:48:57 PM  

Gyrfalcon: HeartBurnKid: Kimothy: Wow. Since Reason started their right-ward and kinda crazy drift awhile back I agree with them about once or twice a year. This is one of those times.

I disagree. I don't think Weingarten's words were meant to imply that charter school teachers don't care about their kids, but to rebut the oft-leveled accusations that public school teachers (read: unionized teachers) don't. They obviously do care very deeply about their kids, and the sacrifices we saw at Sandy Hook are proof enough of that.

Both the article and the email are (to put it charitably) way off base. The idea that ANYONE in that situation, whether they are "unionized public school teachers", charter school private teachers, or the freaking janitor, wouldn't be doing his or her level best to save the kids, is asinine. And the idea that somehow a charter teacher (because she's not in a union?) would not where a public teacher (because she is?) would is just disgusting and the thinker should be ashamed for having it.
 
If anyone needs an example of politicizing a tragedy, this is it. In spades.



That was my take on it, too. But I also follow Weingarten on the Twitter and am a regular reader of her blog. She takes every possible opportunity to crap on charter schools, so there's no surprise she'd bring them up in this instance too. 
 
She regularly vilifies teachers who work at charter schools. We're traitors to her cause.
 
2012-12-19 08:50:13 PM  

vpb: Since I have journeyed into inner derpistan, here is what she said:

Every one of the teachers was a career educator. Every one was doing exactly what she wanted to do. They've worked in a school that was not obsessed with testing but with the needs of children. This we know: the staff at Sandy Hook loved their students. They put their students first, even before their own lives.
Oh, and one other thing, all these dedicated teachers belonged to a union. The senior teachers had tenure, despite the fact that "reformers" (led by ConnCAN, StudentsFirst, and hedge fund managers) did their best last spring to diminish their tenure and to tie their evaluations to test scores....
Newtown does not need a charter school. What it needs now is healing. Not competition, not division, but a community coming together to help one another. Together. Not competing.
 Basically defending the teachers who were killed against people who were trashing them for political reasons.

Oh and there is her blog, so you can read the whole thing:

http://dianeravitch.net/2012/12/17/the-hero-teachers-of-newtown/


Yes, and after she said all of that she quoted Karen Lewis, head of the Chicago teachers union, who said this:

There might have been a time where "politicizing" tragic events, especially mass shootings was thought to be in poor taste. That has changed with the 24/7 news cycle that continues to focus far too much time and energy on the perpetrator of the massacre than that of our precious victims. Rosenberg's "false outrage" needs to be checked. That same false outrage should show itself when policies his colleagues support kill and disenfranchise children from schools across this nation.

GAT_00: The GOP: never willing to let a national tragedy stop them from bashing unions.


Um, this is about a union official using a national tragedy to bash supporters of charter schools, not the GOP bashing unions. But I guess reading the article would have been too much trouble

mittromneysdog: Question for conservatives who want to force teachers to carry:

Why do you want people you call "thugs" to be armed?


I think you're misrepresenting the conservative position on this issue. I've not seen a great deal of people in favor of requiring teachers to be armed. I have seen number people propose that schools should not be 'gun free zones' and that teachers who want to be able to arm themselves should be allowed to do so. http://www.volokh.com/2012/12/14/a-thought-experiment-related-to-schoo l-shootings/
 
2012-12-19 08:56:27 PM  
a one-time school reformer who has since gotten into bed with teachers unions

this sounds unbiased I should keep reading
 
2012-12-19 08:59:40 PM  
That same false outrage should show itself when policies his colleagues support kill and disenfranchise children from schools across this nation.

I don't see how this is such a hard comparison to make.
I know in my state the venn diagram of politicians who push for shutting down public schools, sending the money to charter or private schools, and disbanding teachers' unions overlaps pretty well with the group that thinks there should be no regulation of firearms.
 
2012-12-19 09:06:57 PM  
Wow, 50-100 die annually in scholastic sports. Stats courtesy of liberal media.

Link
 
2012-12-19 09:10:38 PM  

Talondel: I think you're misrepresenting the conservative position on this issue.


I'm not. Grassroots conservatives in numerous forums, including Fark, have earnestly called for mandatory firearms possession and training by teachers. Conservatives want to force teachers to carry, though some of their politicians are smarter than their grassroots.
 
2012-12-19 09:21:30 PM  
Shut up Reason, you cocks!
 

Seriously. Just STFU with your union-bashing and school privitization bullshiat.  The charter school vs. pubic school and demonizing teachers crap has exactly nothing to do with this tragedy. But if push came to shove, I honestly wonder how many of those Cheeto-fingered keyboard warriors would have put their lives on the line protecting someone else's kids? 
 
 

 
 
 
 
2012-12-19 09:56:38 PM  
As always with the 24/7 perpetual right-wing outrage machine, I don't get what I'm supposed to be outraged about with this. The response from the Chicago leader appears to be kind of stupid based on the text included in TFA but I see no implicit suggestion from the original blog writer that a charter school teacher would have reacted any differently than the teachers in Newtown did.

And this is the ignoring the fact that I'm taking Reason.com/NRO at its word and not checking the full context of the bits they picked out which almost certainly means that I'm ignoring vastly important surrounding text that completely changes the meaning that Reason and NRO are trying to imply.

Whatever. Conservatives can EABOD at this point as far as I care. I'm tired of pretending you jackasses are anything but vile, dishonest, bottom-feeding morons who spend all your time trying to find reasons to be outraged and insulted by every little goddamn thing in the world. You idiots embody that little "look at that biatch eating crackers like she owns the place" card. You're all pathetic.
 
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