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(Washington Post)   In the sea of ridiculous articles on the school shooting, this one flips the lifeboat: "What if gunmakers paid for mental health care?"   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 230
    More: Asinine, mental health professional, school shootings, congressman  
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3563 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Dec 2012 at 5:20 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-19 04:41:56 PM  
Why would they want to reduce their market?
 
2012-12-19 04:47:25 PM  
This is the closest I've ever seen the WaPo come to admitting that we have a mental health crisis, not a gun crisis. It also seems like they maybe see that the solution is not to hide all the scary inanimate objects, it's helping people to not be so broken they feel violence is acceptable.
 
I'm all for this as long as there is a fair and consistent application of the concept. For example:
 
Car manufacturers, booze makers, and bars would be required to pay for alcoholism treatment
 
Knife makers would be required to pay for emergency room visits of those who get stabbed
 
Musicians who make very sexy music would be required to pay for condoms and abortions
 
John Stewart would be required to pay for a new TV every time he makes me laugh while I'm eating dinner
 
Drew would be required to pay our unemployment insurance when we get fired for Farking instead of working
 
2012-12-19 04:53:36 PM  
Makes as much sense as taxing strip clubs to pay for rape counseling.
 
Let's see... what else don't people approve of?  We can tax that, too.
 
2012-12-19 05:01:35 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: Makes as much sense as taxing strip clubs to pay for rape counseling.
 
Let's see... what else don't people approve of?  We can tax that, too.

 
 
Why we'll never have a flat/consumption tax.
 
But we can tax the bejesus out of bullets.
 
 
/off to buy my $5, heavily taxed pack of smokes, which will kill me just as well 
 
2012-12-19 05:24:03 PM  
America recently had a national discussion about guns and the gun lovers won
Washington DC, Chicago ring any bells?
 
2012-12-19 05:25:16 PM  
The media's gonna have story fuel for months if they keep this up.
 
2012-12-19 05:27:18 PM  
What if McDonald's paid for gym memberships? There, now that makes sense.
 
2012-12-19 05:27:29 PM  
parents need to parent
/problem solved
 
2012-12-19 05:29:01 PM  
What if the Warriors paid for Gold Spraypaint?
 
2012-12-19 05:30:13 PM  

green4mice: parents need to parent
/problem solved


You shut your god-damned whore mouth with that kind of talk....that's just so outrageous as to even think like that should be grounds for your incarceration in Gitmo...
 
2012-12-19 05:31:17 PM  

Treygreen13: What if the Warriors paid for Gold Spraypaint?


they would be too tired after tagging to come out and plaaaaayyyyy-aaaahhhh.
 
2012-12-19 05:33:04 PM  

PreMortem: /off to buy my $5, heavily taxed pack of smokes, which will kill me just as well


Not before you cost society millions to keep you alive through your 20 years of COPD or Cardiovascular Disease Care on Medicare. Damn that Socialized Medicine Obama, DONT TOUCH MAH MEDI *COUGH HACK WHEEZE COUGH* CARE!"
 
2012-12-19 05:38:03 PM  

farbekrieg: Treygreen13: What if the Warriors paid for Gold Spraypaint?

they would be too tired after tagging to come out and plaaaaayyyyy-aaaahhhh.



Sure, support the Big Furies industry.
 
2012-12-19 05:41:57 PM  

brewswane: America recently had a national discussion about guns and the gun lovers constitution won
Washington DC, Chicago ring any bells?


FTFY.
 
2012-12-19 05:42:12 PM  

brewswane: America recently had a national discussion about guns and the gun lovers won
Washington DC, Chicago ring any bells?


Just like our forefathers wanted. They wanted us to be able to defend ourselves against tyrannical governments. The kind that demand you turn your weapons in.
 
2012-12-19 05:43:28 PM  
anything, anything, Anything, ANYthing, ANYTHING but talking about practical limits on assault weapons.
 
2012-12-19 05:43:33 PM  

green4mice: parents need to parent
/problem solved


That's sort of hard when they need to work two jobs each just to keep the kids fed, and even then need food stamps.

/Raise the standard of living, lower the chance of shiat like this happening.
//Yes, I do realize that Adam Lanza lived in a "wealthy" community.
 
2012-12-19 05:43:40 PM  
Cataholic: brewswane: America recently had a national discussion about guns and the gun lovers constitution gun nuts won
Washington DC, Chicago ring any bells?


FTFY.
 
2012-12-19 05:43:45 PM  
Don't get me wrong, I want to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and I want to help people who are mentally ill get the treatment they need, but am I the only one here who thinks mental illness is quickly becoming the scapegoat for all of our problems with guns and violence in this country?
 
2012-12-19 05:45:05 PM  

green4mice: parents need to parent
/problem solved


Exactly. Take an interest in your child's education. Find a hobby you both enjoy. And teach them firearm safety..
 
2012-12-19 05:46:59 PM  

The Short Bald Guy from Benny Hill: Don't get me wrong, I want to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and I want to help people who are mentally ill get the treatment they need, but am I the only one here who thinks mental illness is quickly becoming the scapegoat for all of our problems with guns and violence in this country?


That's crazy talk.
 
2012-12-19 05:47:09 PM  

The Short Bald Guy from Benny Hill: Don't get me wrong, I want to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and I want to help people who are mentally ill get the treatment they need, but am I the only one here who thinks mental illness is quickly becoming the scapegoat for all of our problems with guns and violence in this country?


What else causes someone to decide to take aout a classroom full of kids for no reason at all? Being in good mental health? What causes people in China to attack grade school children with knives? Mental illness isn't "becoming a scapegoat". Obviously people who do these types of things have mental problems, they aren't doing this for money, God, or to protect their family's honor.
 
2012-12-19 05:47:36 PM  

BronyMedic: PreMortem: /off to buy my $5, heavily taxed pack of smokes, which will kill me just as well

Not before you cost society millions to keep you alive through your 20 years of COPD or Cardiovascular Disease Care on Medicare. Damn that Socialized Medicine Obama, DONT TOUCH MAH MEDI *COUGH HACK WHEEZE COUGH* CARE!"



No worries there bro, I wolf down at least 4 double whoppers a week to ensure a massive coronary takes me out. I've got it all planned out.
 
2012-12-19 05:48:00 PM  

green4mice: parents need to parent
/problem solved



Parents will resume parenting as soon as their wage slave jobs provide an opening.
 
The overlap between those who advocate the continued weakening of the middle and working class
and those who advocate unrestrictive gun sale policies is not insignificant.
 
It's mostly the same people who biatch about God being missing from society....
 
Well damn, hard to concern one's self with God and Parenting when the economic overlords
keep destroying the economy on you while paying themselves ever greater salaries and bonuses
 
2012-12-19 05:48:57 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: brewswane: America recently had a national discussion about guns and the gun lovers won
Washington DC, Chicago ring any bells?

Just like our forefathers wanted. They wanted us to be able to defend ourselves against tyrannical governments. The kind that demand you turn your weapons in.


So pretty much exactly like the kind of government they just got done fighting a war of independence with. Imagine that. The new country that barely managed to scrape out a win against the worlds most powerful military thought it was probably a good idea that the people keep the ability to defend themselves next time should another tyrannical government come around.

\We could learn a lot from those first Americans
\\If only they wrote out some guidelines we could follow to preserve our rights...
 
2012-12-19 05:49:32 PM  
What, like carbon offsets?
 
2012-12-19 05:49:34 PM  

Mikey1969: What causes people in China to attack grade school children with knives?


It's all those First Person Stabber video games that are so popular over there.
 
2012-12-19 05:50:59 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: green4mice: parents need to parent
/problem solved

Exactly. Take an interest in your child's education. Find a hobby you both enjoy. And teach them firearm safety..


Adam Lanza's mother found a hobby they both enjoyed.

Link

Nancy Lanza took her son, Adam, to a shooting range and taught him how to use a firearm before he turned a gun on her and shot her dead, then executed more than two dozen terrified children and teachers at an elementary school.

Fifty-two-year-old Nancy Lanza was an avid gun collector who had legally purchased five firearms, all registered in Connecticut, according to police records.

'She said she would often go target shooting with her kids,' Dan Holmes, owner of the lanscaping firm Holmes Fine Gardens, told Reuters.

He recalled that she once showed him a 'high-end rifle' that she had purchased.

'She was very proud of it,' he told the New York Daily News. 'She loved her guns.'
 
2012-12-19 05:51:44 PM  

Fluid: The media's gonna have story fuel for months if they keep this up.



This has legs. 40 little legs. It isn't going away this time.
 
2012-12-19 05:52:34 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: Adam Lanza's mother found a hobby they both enjoyed.


Didn't see what I did there?
 
2012-12-19 05:52:38 PM  
Gun violence cost the US approx $37 Billion in 2005 alone.

Frankly...I don't give a damn if it the Firearms industry or the "Gun Nuts" pay the premium to attempt to fix the problem, but if someone has to pay, it should be those at the root of the issue. Fair is Fair... I mean if the NRA can not only suppress the CDC from researching the effects of Gun violence in the US AND lobby to make it illegal for the CDC to even study the issue at all (as well as cutting $2.6 million dollars from the CDC's annual budget...the exact same amount they spent on the suppressed study)...Fair is Fair.

Some prominent and not so prominent morons are talking about "Training and Arming Teachers" as well as putting more Cops/Armed Security at every school... well... besides the arming Teachers idea being farking STUPID...who'se gonna pay for that?

I own 2 pistols, one is my home defense gun (5 shot S&W .38) and one for Conceal Carry (Makarov) , and I keep only the safety slugs needed for the revolver in the house (meaning 5 rounds). Why should I keep paying the premium so that the TeaTards can stock pile personal arsenals for a laundry list of retarded reasons the only honest of which being "I like guns"?

If we can tax Tobacco and Booze etc ...why can't we tax Ammo?

Something needs to be done...and no one answer will solve the problem... but one thing is for damn sure, people who put their gun lust before common sense and the public good/safety need to shoulder a large part of the burden to fix this mess.
 
2012-12-19 05:52:51 PM  
Actually, this makes sense, assuming that there is some kind of Chinese Wall between the two sides. I mean, the real problem with rampage killers is mental health. Mental illness is the enabler. Guns simply increase the killers efficiency.
 
2012-12-19 05:53:02 PM  
i1172.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-19 05:54:00 PM  
 
2012-12-19 05:56:01 PM  

Stratohead: Some prominent and not so prominent morons are talking about "Training and Arming Teachers



After demonizing teachers for the past 3-4 years, laying off several hundred thousand of them, stealing their self funded pensions, taking steps to break their completely legal unions, continuously calling them little more than overpaid babysitters....
 
Do they really want these people armed?
 
Didn't really think that cunning plan through, did they?
 
2012-12-19 05:56:09 PM  

brewswane: America recently had a national discussion about guns and the gun lovers won


i.imgur.com

(SNL - season 1, episode 1)
 
2012-12-19 05:56:17 PM  

The Short Bald Guy from Benny Hill: Don't get me wrong, I want to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and I want to help people who are mentally ill get the treatment they need, but am I the only one here who thinks mental illness is quickly becoming the scapegoat for all of our problems with guns and violence in this country?


Yes, it has become a scapegoat, and for all the current rhetoric suggesting that increased mental health care is the answer, I don't think it is a cure-all. Don't get me wrong, I think that increased attention, funding and focus for mental health is definitely warranted in general. But currently we know very little about what mental health disorder is, what causes it, how to treat it, so that even if some of these gunmen had made it to mental health care I'm not sure they would have been helped. The more immediate solution to mass shootings is more restrictive gun laws, followed by increased funding of research to understanding mental health care and improving treatment and access to treatment. A combined approach is the best solution.
 
2012-12-19 05:58:59 PM  
Still waiting for the article that challenges the authoritarian reflex that keeps insisting 'we can't accept this as routine, there must be something we can do to prevent these kinds of events.'

I'm sorry, but every possibility for meaningful change of that level leads down the path of further reigning in the great social experiment that is personal freedom in the United States. Expansive diversity and tolerance comes with stuff like this. Since we mainstream every difficult child and integrate most disenfranchised social groups and then put a big lid of zero-tolerance regulation and no-fail expectations with the sensationalism of conflict and wealth on this mixing-pot turned pressure cooker, we can be delighted we only see so few of these extreme events.

But no body wants to say that for at least a few more days. So I'll wait patiently.
 
2012-12-19 06:00:49 PM  
Stricter gun control isn't going to solve anything. Even if you ban all of them, you've still got gunpowder. Our lunatics will just start making pipe bombs and rather than targeting random individuals, they'll simply take out the whole roomful. That's not an improvement.

OK, so we ban gunpowder. Well, there's bows and arrows. You can still kill people from a distance, only not as far and not quite as fast. And I'll refrain from discussing jellied gasoline.

So we get rid of all that too. We're down to things that are sharp and/or pointy. But along with axes and swords we have to include steak knives, thumbtacks, chainsaws - hey, what about icicles, hanging off your eave, waiting to plunge into your skull?

Ever have a paper cut? Nasty, aren't they? Put books on the list.

So what's left? Well, there's always strangling. Now there's a time- and labor-intensive method of killing. You actually have to get up out of the La-Z-Boy and walk all the way across the room until you're right next to the guy. And then chances are he won't cooperate in the least little way.

But we can't outlaw hands, that's just ridiculous. However, we can limit the sale of rope, string, shoelaces, scarves, neckties, and pantyhose to those people who can pass a criminal background check.

It's the end of modern business attire. No shaving because no razors. Wear only sandals that don't lace up. It's a hippie paradise. This is NOT what Our Foundering Fathers would have wanted.

Or maybe it is, hard to say, wasn't there.
 
2012-12-19 06:01:44 PM  

Mikey1969: What else causes someone to decide to take aout a classroom full of kids for no reason at all? Being in good mental health? What causes people in China to attack grade school children with knives? Mental illness isn't "becoming a scapegoat". Obviously people who do these types of things have mental problems, they aren't doing this for money, God, or to protect their family's honor.


yeah, it's not like the rest of us are more responsible and exercise greater will power by not acting on our desire to shoot up a grade school.
 
2012-12-19 06:03:13 PM  

Mikey1969: The Short Bald Guy from Benny Hill: Don't get me wrong, I want to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill and I want to help people who are mentally ill get the treatment they need, but am I the only one here who thinks mental illness is quickly becoming the scapegoat for all of our problems with guns and violence in this country?

What else causes someone to decide to take aout a classroom full of kids for no reason at all? Being in good mental health? What causes people in China to attack grade school children with knives? Mental illness isn't "becoming a scapegoat". Obviously people who do these types of things have mental problems, they aren't doing this for money, God, or to protect their family's honor.


Well, I guess you didn't "read" what I wrote, or maybe I didn't make it clear enough? I said the "scapegoat for all of our problems with guns and violence in this country". While the shooting last week is tragic events like these are a very small percentage of all gun related violence in our country. I never said that mental health wasn't something that needed to be addressed. I said that I get the feeling people are making it the only thing that needs to be addressed and that won't reduce most of the gun violence in this country.
 
2012-12-19 06:03:40 PM  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalisation

Deinstitutionalisation is the policy and practice of transferring homeless, involuntarily hospitalised mental patients from state mental hospitals into many different kinds of de facto psychiatric institutions funded largely by the federal government. These federally subsidised institutions began in the United States and were quickly adopted by most Western governments. The plan was set in motion by the Community Mental Health Act as a part of John F. Kennedy's legislation[clarification needed] and passed by the U.S. Congress in 1963, mandating the appointment of a commission to make recommendations for "combating mental illness in the United States".[4]

In many cases the deinstitutionalisation of the mentally ill in the Western world from the 1960s onward has translated into policies of "community release". Individuals who previously would have been in mental institutions are no longer continuously supervised by health care workers. Some experts, such as E. Fuller Torrey, have considered deinstitutionalisation to be a failure,[5] while some consider many aspects of institutionalization to have been worse.
 
2012-12-19 06:09:51 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: brewswane: America recently had a national discussion about guns and the gun lovers won
Washington DC, Chicago ring any bells?

Just like our forefathers wanted. They wanted us to be able to defend ourselves against tyrannical governments. The kind that demand you turn your weapons in.


man... and this is directed solely at you...but I am so god damn sick and tired of the "Founding Fathers" wanted it this way bullshiat...and thats all that argument is...revisionist BULLshiat.
The 2nd Amendment was written to permit the STATES to form their own " Well Regulated Militias", and to prevent the Federal Govt. from interfering with that necessity. Nothing about INDIVIDUAL ownership of firearms, Nothing about "self defense" nothing about "stand your ground" or "castle doctrine" is ANYWHERE in the constitution.
If you would like a case study of "The Framers Intent" in actual practice? Try reading up on The Whiskey Rebellion The Whiskey Rebellion which Washington as PotUS personally lead a Militia force to crush...and tell me again about "The Framers Intent".

additionally ...we actually have "Well Regulated Militias" in each state...we refer to it as the NATIONAL GUARD, perhaps you've heard of it?

standing up to Tyranny...right... aside from the fact that your Bushmaster or AK is useless against a farking cruise missile or a hellfire... one of the main reason most LEO departments execute almost ANY standard warrant with a tactical unit (SWAT for example) is due to the sheer volume of guns and the danger they posses... and yet the Gun nuts and TeaTards point to this response as part of the "growing tyranny".

So sick of of i selfish shiat heads putting their own petty interests ahead of the advancement of mankind and this country.
 
2012-12-19 06:10:35 PM  

The Short Bald Guy from Benny Hill: am I the only one here who thinks mental illness is quickly becoming the scapegoat for all of our problems with guns and violence in this country?


Generally speaking, that kind of antisocial behavior does result from those that are mentally unhealthy. It isn't about placing blame and wiping hands of the issue so much as it is about recognizing and understanding the root cause of the issue at a societal level, which then opens the door for policy changes advocating support and treatment.
 
2012-12-19 06:10:46 PM  

Stratohead: Smeggy Smurf: brewswane: America recently had a national discussion about guns and the gun lovers won
Washington DC, Chicago ring any bells?

Just like our forefathers wanted. They wanted us to be able to defend ourselves against tyrannical governments. The kind that demand you turn your weapons in.

man... and this IS NOT directed solely at you...but I am so god damn sick and tired of the "Founding Fathers" wanted it this way bullshiat...and thats all that argument is...revisionist BULLshiat.
The 2nd Amendment was written to permit the STATES to form their own " Well Regulated Militias", and to prevent the Federal Govt. from interfering with that necessity. Nothing about INDIVIDUAL ownership of firearms, Nothing about "self defense" nothing about "stand your ground" or "castle doctrine" is ANYWHERE in the constitution.
If you would like a case study of "The Framers Intent" in actual practice? Try reading up on The Whiskey Rebellion The Whiskey Rebellion which Washington as PotUS personally lead a Militia force to crush...and tell me again about "The Framers Intent".

additionally ...we actually have "Well Regulated Militias" in each state...we refer to it as the NATIONAL GUARD, perhaps you've heard of it?

standing up to Tyranny...right... aside from the fact that your Bushmaster or AK is useless against a farking cruise missile or a hellfire... one of the main reason most LEO departments execute almost ANY standard warrant with a tactical unit (SWAT for example) is due to the sheer volume of guns and the danger they posses... and yet the Gun nuts and TeaTards point to this response as part of the "growing tyranny".

So sick of of i selfish shiat heads putting their own petty interests ahead of the advancement of mankind and this country.


/FTFM...typo.
 
2012-12-19 06:14:22 PM  
Gun owners should be required to pay into a government-run liability insurance program. $5 per gun, per year, to be paid out to the families of innocents massacred in the name of freedom.
 
2012-12-19 06:14:57 PM  

Stratohead: Smeggy Smurf: brewswane: America recently had a national discussion about guns and the gun lovers won
Washington DC, Chicago ring any bells?

Just like our forefathers wanted. They wanted us to be able to defend ourselves against tyrannical governments. The kind that demand you turn your weapons in.

man... and this is directed solely at you...but I am so god damn sick and tired of the "Founding Fathers" wanted it this way bullshiat...and thats all that argument is...revisionist BULLshiat.
The 2nd Amendment was written to permit the STATES to form their own " Well Regulated Militias", and to prevent the Federal Govt. from interfering with that necessity. Nothing about INDIVIDUAL ownership of firearms, Nothing about "self defense" nothing about "stand your ground" or "castle doctrine" is ANYWHERE in the constitution.
If you would like a case study of "The Framers Intent" in actual practice? Try reading up on The Whiskey Rebellion The Whiskey Rebellion which Washington as PotUS personally lead a Militia force to crush...and tell me again about "The Framers Intent".

additionally ...we actually have "Well Regulated Militias" in each state...we refer to it as the NATIONAL GUARD, perhaps you've heard of it?

standing up to Tyranny...right... aside from the fact that your Bushmaster or AK is useless against a farking cruise missile or a hellfire... one of the main reason most LEO departments execute almost ANY standard warrant with a tactical unit (SWAT for example) is due to the sheer volume of guns and the danger they posses... and yet the Gun nuts and TeaTards point to this response as part of the "growing tyranny".

So sick of of i selfish shiat heads putting their own petty interests ahead of the advancement of mankind and this country.


*sigh*
I'm tired of repeating myself in every thread since Friday showing how people like you are wrong, on just about every point, so I'll just leave you with this.

i46.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-19 06:15:26 PM  

Trayal: The Short Bald Guy from Benny Hill: am I the only one here who thinks mental illness is quickly becoming the scapegoat for all of our problems with guns and violence in this country?

Generally speaking, that kind of antisocial behavior does result from those that are mentally unhealthy. It isn't about placing blame and wiping hands of the issue so much as it is about recognizing and understanding the root cause of the issue at a societal level, which then opens the door for policy changes advocating support and treatment.


Agreed. And killing sprees by mentally ill lunatics are a small percentage of gun violence in this country. So yes, let's help the mentally ill and keep guns out of their hands, but there are other societal issues that need to be addressed that will also help bring the level of gun violence, hell, violence in general, down. I'm just starting to get the impression that people are reflexively saying "mental illness" and leaving it at that.
 
2012-12-19 06:15:53 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Mikey1969: What causes people in China to attack grade school children with knives?

It's all those First Person Stabber video games that are so popular over there.


They're a lot more hands-on than first person shooters...
 
2012-12-19 06:18:07 PM  
Five and six year old kids.
 
Never grew up. Never had children. Never finished school. Never had a first date or a first time. Not even a first kiss. 
 
They didn't even see Santa Claus this year.
 
What are we arguing about again?
 
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