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(BBC)   Bad: Your parachute doesn't open. Worse: Your reserve parachute doesn't open. Worst: Nobody notices or cares   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 103
    More: Sad, Dutch police, skydivers, Derek Boogaard, club records  
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21099 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Dec 2012 at 9:58 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-19 12:06:15 PM
ALWAYS LEAVE A NOTE SAYING WHERE YOU"RE GOING!!!!! 
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-19 12:10:33 PM
dvice.com
 
2012-12-19 12:22:40 PM

gingerjet: littlett's: I don't consider my friends obnoxious, but I'm pretty sure that if at least one of them didn't see me at the gym or we didn't meet for a drink after work, they would at least try to call.

Same.  I don't see why checking up on someone is somehow 'obnoxious'?
 
/clubs policies are completely idiotic


You both sound female. And obnoxious.

Even with my closest friends, it might take a while before anyone of them called, and me with them. I'm OK with that.

Now, my wife is a different story: We usually spend most of our time together when I'm not working and she's not doing something like shopping, or if I'm out hunting or something like that, and she'd know if I wasn't back by a certain time to start making inquiries, as would I with her.
 
2012-12-19 12:31:59 PM
Mandatory GPS for skydivers
 
2012-12-19 12:33:51 PM

littlett's: had98c: He probably had friends, they just weren't obnoxious about it and aren't the kind to check in on you every flipping day or freak out if you don't call them.

I don't consider my friends obnoxious, but I'm pretty sure that if at least one of them didn't see me at the gym or we didn't meet for a drink after work, they would at least try to call.



If I was on vacation I could easily be out of contact for a week. I have some great friends who would eventually worry about me, but they don't constantly contact me. Which is fine, I like being alone and unbothered most of the time.
 
2012-12-19 12:35:05 PM
At 32 feet per second per second I assume he was already mostly buried.
 
2012-12-19 12:40:47 PM
At the DZ where I worked, the only time we kept track of fun jumpers after a load was if we were using the alternate LZ and needed to send the bus over to pick them up, then Manifest would give you a count. It would probably be harder to go unnoticed during the summer though, too many eyes. In the winter everyone is wrapped up and freezing, there's probably few or no students or tandems for manifest to be paying attention to, the teams that are hardcore enough to be jumping are preoccupied with training,the trustafarians are somewhere warm etc. The packers (who habitually count open canopies) would be packing inside etc. Just exit last and track off. Hard to believe no one noticed his car in the lot though.
 
2012-12-19 12:45:26 PM
I'm likely to die this anonymously. If I'd croaked at the beginning of this last vacation, no one would have known for half a year.

It's an oddly liberating thought...
 
2012-12-19 12:53:04 PM

Do you know the way to Mordor: Mandatory GPS for skydivers


Mandatory psychological evaluations.
 
2012-12-19 12:55:00 PM

StoPPeRmobile: Do you know the way to Mordor: Mandatory GPS for skydivers

Mandatory psychological evaluations.


I'm OK with merely making the landings mandatory.
 
2012-12-19 12:56:30 PM

pounddawg: Skydiver here -- That DZ has terrible policies. We had a bad spot once and manifest was ever diligent to account for everyone on the plane.


I thought that would be standard. If I was running a business where it was possible for people to die as a result of the service I was providing, I would want to make sure I was checking on that. At least have someone meet the divers at the end to offer help in the event of a rough landing or even a high five. I've never sky-dived, but I would imagine you'd want to high-five SOMEONE when you landed, to have a congratulatory "wasn't that AWESOME?!" moment with someone.
 
2012-12-19 12:57:26 PM
AnonymooseFarker:
I'm pretty sure an AAD is required on ALL reserve parachutes...

Nope. In the US, they are required for student rigs and tandem rigs. [Student rig requirement is found here and the tandem rigs are required to have them by their manufacturers. The manufacturer's requirements are effectively adopted by the USPA as a requirement, so the net result is that USPA requires them for tandems.]

AADs are "encouraged" - but not required - for sport rigs, which is the type of parachute harness system a licensed skydiver [such as the deceased] uses when jumping). See here for more information.

I believe the Dutch have a stricter requirement that mandates AADs until the jumper has their equivalent of a USPA "C" license.
 
2012-12-19 12:59:25 PM

StoPPeRmobile: Do you know the way to Mordor: Mandatory GPS for skydivers

Mandatory psychological evaluations.


Meh. I'm assuming you say that because of the perceived risk? Did you know that per NTSB statistics, driving 10,000 miles in a "standard sedan" (whatever the heck that is) on US highways is as risky as 17 skydives? (I'm digging up the article that did that statistical analysis.) Do you drive on US highways, you crazy person? :)
 
2012-12-19 01:02:15 PM
To the tune of The Battle Hymn of the Republic:

♫He was just a cherry trooper and he surely shook with fright
as he checked all his equipment and made sure his pack was tight
He had to sit and listen to the awful engines roar,
And he ain't gonna jump no more.

CHORUS:
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
He ain't gonna jump no more.

"Is everybody happy?"cried the Sergeant, looking up.
Our hero feebly answered "yes," and then they stood him up.
He leaped right out into the blast, his static line unhooked.
He ain't gonna jump no more.

CHORUS:
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
He ain't gonna jump no more.

He counted long, he counted loud, he waited for the shock;
He felt the wind, he felt the clouds, he felt the awful drop;
He jerked his cord, the silk spilled out and wrapped around his legs.
He ain't gonna jump no more.

CHORUS:
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
He ain't gonna jump no more.

The risers wrapped around his neck, connectors cracked his dome;
The lines were snarled and tied in knots, around his skinny bones;
The canopy became his shroud, he hurtled to the ground.
He ain't gonna jump no more.

CHORUS:
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
He ain't gonna jump no more.

The days he'd lived and loved and laughed kept running through his mind;
He thought about the girl back home, the one he'd left behind;
He thought about the medics and wondered what they'ed find.
He ain't gonna jump no more.

CHORUS:
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
He ain't gonna jump no more.

The ambulance was on the spot, the jeeps were running wild;
The medics jumped and screamed with glee, they rolled their sleeves and smiled;
For it had been a week or more since last a chute had failed.
He ain't gonna jump no more.

CHORUS:
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
He ain't gonna jump no more.

He hit the ground, the sound was splat, his blood went spurting high;
His comrades were then heard to say, "A helluve way to die";
He lay there rolling around in the welter of his gore.
He ain't gonna jump no more.

CHORUS:
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
He ain't gonna jump no more.

There was blood upon the risers, there were brains upon the chute;
Intestines were a-dangling from this paratrooper's boots;
They picked him up, still in his chute and poured him from his boots.
He ain't gonna jump no more.

CHORUS:
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
Gory, Gory, What a helluva way to die
He ain't gonna jump no more ♪
 
2012-12-19 01:02:30 PM

Skwrl: StoPPeRmobile: Do you know the way to Mordor: Mandatory GPS for skydivers

Mandatory psychological evaluations.

Meh. I'm assuming you say that because of the perceived risk? Did you know that per NTSB statistics, driving 10,000 miles in a "standard sedan" (whatever the heck that is) on US highways is as risky as 17 skydives? (I'm digging up the article that did that statistical analysis.) Do you drive on US highways, you crazy person? :)

I have already called for a ban on CARS.
 
2012-12-19 01:07:17 PM
Ironically, he wasn't missed because he failed to make much of an impression.
 
2012-12-19 01:08:05 PM

StoPPeRmobile: Skwrl: StoPPeRmobile: Do you know the way to Mordor: Mandatory GPS for skydivers

Mandatory psychological evaluations.

Meh. I'm assuming you say that because of the perceived risk? Did you know that per NTSB statistics, driving 10,000 miles in a "standard sedan" (whatever the heck that is) on US highways is as risky as 17 skydives? (I'm digging up the article that did that statistical analysis.) Do you drive on US highways, you crazy person? :)
I have already called for a ban on CARS.


You want to ban cars for safety reasons?
 
2012-12-19 01:08:21 PM

Do you know the way to Mordor: Mandatory GPS for skydivers


GPS doesn't customarily transmit. You mean PLB or perhaps EPIRB.
 
2012-12-19 01:11:11 PM
ih2.redbubble.net
/Street pizza
 
2012-12-19 01:12:58 PM

Mikeyworld: Jaws_Victim: drjekel_mrhyde: They could have at least tried to call him or a contact of his

He was a loner and he died alone, without friends. I wonder when we can expect him to shoot up a school.


Not all loners shoot up schools or become serial killers. And not all mass murderers or serial killers are loners. I'm pretty much a loner, but I have no urge to kill or maim. I do my thing and if someone wants to join in, that's cool. I do make a point to call my Mama on occasion to check in (she's well supported, at 87yo,  by my two sisters and a very large circle of friends), but don't go hunting down friends for companionship, I just don't need it. If they want to go have a beer, or need a wingman, I'm good to go. Lonership suits me fine, I wear my 'lone wolf' colors proudly, but will ride with just about anyone.
 
/He died doing his thing, what's wrong with that?
//Where his body ended up didn't seem to matter to him.


THIS^^^

I'm not really a loner, but as I have grown older, I don't feel the need for "friends." I'm not very social anymore. I'm happy with the company of my wife. BTW, the MO of a serial killer is quite different than a mass murderer. Serial killers are always psychopaths, who are usually outgoing, charming and manipulative. They shock people when they are caught because they always seemed like nice guys. Ted Bundy was a textbook case. Mass murders may be psychopathic, but they usually have other serious concomitant personality disorders and/or become psychotic.
 
2012-12-19 01:15:09 PM

Do you know the way to Mordor: Mandatory GPS for skydivers


I don't see why they would need a GPS. It's damn near impossible to get lost on the way down.

"Hello, yes ACME skydiving? Maybe you can help me out, I've been up here for hours. I need to know how to get to the ground.....no, I don't see any clouds, but there is a mountian to my left, and I have two birds in front of me..."
 
2012-12-19 01:19:33 PM
Well, at least he died doing what he loved: screaming and clawing desperately at the air.

If this isn't a suicide, I would sure the hell like to know how a double malfunction happened.
 
2012-12-19 01:23:45 PM

SwiftFox: gopher321: Which of course leads to the Zen question, "If a skydiver falls in the forest..."

No, it's "If Anne Frank fell over in the desert..."


If a hardcoded NL subtitler drops dead, would Anne Frank or the English speaking world care?

/Hardcoded subtitlers should DIAF!
//Is making a srt too hard for you?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-12-19 01:26:04 PM
I don't see why they would need a GPS. It's damn near impossible to get lost on the way down.

"Make a U turn now."
 
2012-12-19 01:29:12 PM

dittybopper: I'm OK with merely making the landings mandatory.


Landing, is mandatory. Landing at a preferred velocity is the tricky part.
 
2012-12-19 01:44:52 PM
So they just threw him out of an airplane and didn't bother to check if he landed ok?
 
2012-12-19 01:47:35 PM

Insatiable Jesus: Well, at least he died doing what he loved: screaming and clawing desperately at the air.

If this isn't a suicide, I would sure the hell like to know how a double malfunction happened.


It could be a wide range of possible things. If his rig lacked an automatic activation device (or didn't have it turned on properly), he could have struck the aircraft tail on exit or had a medical event (e.g., stroke or heart attack) that rendered him incapable of deploying.  Currently, there's not enough information to know.
 
2012-12-19 02:10:20 PM

Skwrl: Insatiable Jesus: Well, at least he died doing what he loved: screaming and clawing desperately at the air.

If this isn't a suicide, I would sure the hell like to know how a double malfunction happened.

It could be a wide range of possible things. If his rig lacked an automatic activation device (or didn't have it turned on properly), he could have struck the aircraft tail on exit or had a medical event (e.g., stroke or heart attack) that rendered him incapable of deploying.  Currently, there's not enough information to know.


They think it's a suicide now. They haven't found anything wrong with the chute or the reserve.
 
2012-12-19 02:12:42 PM

Insatiable Jesus: If this isn't a suicide, I would sure the hell like to know how a double malfunction happened.


It probably was a suicide. Dutch police confirmed that the parachute worked and that there was no evidence of a crime.
 
2012-12-19 02:19:01 PM

Coming on a Bicycle: y think it's a suicide now. They haven't found anything wrong with the chute or the reserve.


Did he have his doctor bag?

/it would take real committment to dying, to skydive without opening, I would assume. The regret hits some jumpers after they commit the act (according to rare survivors from bridges)
 
2012-12-19 02:24:33 PM
This happened to my sister the very first time she went sky diving. The instructor had to grab onto her to keep her from going splat. With two peoples weight using the instructors chute she landed a lot harder than she would have with one chute and she hurt her ankle pretty badly. Needless to say she has never gone sky diving since. Not the thrill she was looking for.
 
2012-12-19 02:24:59 PM

Insatiable Jesus: Well, at least he died doing what he loved: screaming and clawing desperately at the air.

If this isn't a suicide, I would sure the hell like to know how a double malfunction happened.


Let's say that a conventional parachute, for the sake of argument, only fails 0.1% of the time, so that out of every 1,000 jumps, there is a catastrophic failure. Let's also stipulate that the back-up parachutes also have a 0.1% failure rate. That would imply that there is only a 1 in 1,000,000 chance that both the main and reserve chutes would fail.

Now, the USPA estimates that its roughly 30,000 members make around 5 million jumps a year, so you'd expect around 5 fatalities. The actual number is about 20 fatalities per year, so my guesstimates on failure rates was pretty close (it would be 0.5% for both). It is certainly muddled by other issues, though, unrelated to actual failure of the parachutes themselves, like accidentally landing on power lines, or deploying both chutes and getting them tangled, and other errors and mishaps.

Anyway, the point is, when you have enough people doing something, the extremely rare thing is going to happen to *SOMEONE*, though the risk of it happening to any one individual, or on any single jump, is extremely small.

This is an important lesson to absorb, given the current hysterical debate about you know what.
 
2012-12-19 02:32:08 PM

Skwrl: StoPPeRmobile: Skwrl: StoPPeRmobile: Do you know the way to Mordor: Mandatory GPS for skydivers

Mandatory psychological evaluations.

Meh. I'm assuming you say that because of the perceived risk? Did you know that per NTSB statistics, driving 10,000 miles in a "standard sedan" (whatever the heck that is) on US highways is as risky as 17 skydives? (I'm digging up the article that did that statistical analysis.) Do you drive on US highways, you crazy person? :)
I have already called for a ban on CARS.

You want to ban cars for safety reasons?


Yep. 30-50 thousands of lives a year could be saved every year. Do you want them to die? Only a monster would not want to save these innocent lives.
 
2012-12-19 02:49:01 PM

djh0101010: dittybopper: I'm OK with merely making the landings mandatory.

Landing, is mandatory. Landing at a preferred velocity is the tricky part.


I'm not scared of falling from a great height, it's the sudden stop at the end that worries me.

//Para-stolen from somewhere.
 
2012-12-19 03:07:04 PM

ha-ha-guy: But the club said it had not launched a search as it was not usual for skydivers to report back after their jump.

The club has shiatty policies.



"Yes, we always jump out of planes then never bother to tell anyone successful jump, we just hop in our cars and go on home."
 
You guys have a weird concept of safety, is all I can say.
 
2012-12-19 03:38:23 PM

StoPPeRmobile: Yep. 30-50 thousands of lives a year could be saved every year. Do you want them to die? Only a monster would not want to save these innocent lives.


Will you also ban railroads? Over 3000 deaths per year there. Water transport (600 deaths there)? Swimming and bathing (3,400 deaths)? Stairs (1,300 deaths)? Clearly, only a monster would not want to save those innocents as well... References.

Obviously, my point is that life is inherently risky. Cars are certainly more dangerous than most people realize, but to say "aha, then we should ban them" is to ignore a very basic risk/benefit calculus that we all do, whether we realize it or not.
 
2012-12-19 03:47:19 PM

Skwrl: StoPPeRmobile: Yep. 30-50 thousands of lives a year could be saved every year. Do you want them to die? Only a monster would not want to save these innocent lives.

Will you also ban railroads? Over 3000 deaths per year there. Water transport (600 deaths there)? Swimming and bathing (3,400 deaths)? Stairs (1,300 deaths)? Clearly, only a monster would not want to save those innocents as well... References.

Obviously, my point is that life is inherently risky. Cars are certainly more dangerous than most people realize, but to say "aha, then we should ban them" is to ignore a very basic risk/benefit calculus that we all do, whether we realize it or not.


Ban them all!

If we can save just one life. Why don't you want to save lives.
 
2012-12-19 03:52:29 PM

StevieKo: Nor cares. NOR!


www.davidstuff.com

Of course I care, why shouldn't I?
 
2012-12-19 04:12:24 PM

StoPPeRmobile: Ban them all!

If we can save just one life. Why don't you want to save lives.


I'm 98% convinced you're a troll. Either that or you have a really fascinating (but in my opinion fairly delusional) world view. But I'll play along...

Look, you're using a computer, right? That computer was no doubt shipped to you through one of those methods you would ban. How would you get that computer? How many people die in construction accidents? Should we ban houses and all live in caves?

So as for "why don't I want to save lives?" The answer is "because preservation of life at all costs has never been the basic underpinning of any society, anywhere." I put great value on human life, but I also recognize that we can't exist as a hunter-gatherer society any more. (By the way, being a hunter-gatherer isn't, you know, the safest way to exist...)
 
2012-12-19 04:20:34 PM
So....ummmmm...... does this quote from the article make ANY sense at all???: "His parachute failed to open on his dive on 8 December. No technical problems were found with the parachute and the investigation was over."
 
2012-12-19 04:25:41 PM

dittybopper: Insatiable Jesus: Well, at least he died doing what he loved: screaming and clawing desperately at the air.

If this isn't a suicide, I would sure the hell like to know how a double malfunction happened.

Let's say that a conventional parachute, for the sake of argument, only fails 0.1% of the time, so that out of every 1,000 jumps, there is a catastrophic failure. Let's also stipulate that the back-up parachutes also have a 0.1% failure rate. That would imply that there is only a 1 in 1,000,000 chance that both the main and reserve chutes would fail.

Now, the USPA estimates that its roughly 30,000 members make around 5 million jumps a year, so you'd expect around 5 fatalities. The actual number is about 20 fatalities per year, so my guesstimates on failure rates was pretty close (it would be 0.5% for both). It is certainly muddled by other issues, though, unrelated to actual failure of the parachutes themselves, like accidentally landing on power lines, or deploying both chutes and getting them tangled, and other errors and mishaps.

Anyway, the point is, when you have enough people doing something, the extremely rare thing is going to happen to *SOMEONE*, though the risk of it happening to any one individual, or on any single jump, is extremely small.

This is an important lesson to absorb, given the current hysterical debate about you know what.



One of my AFF instructors had 1200 jumps with four primary malfunctions. He said his back preferred he take the occasional reserve ride in exchange for softer openings.
 
2012-12-19 04:29:09 PM

ehahn: So....ummmmm...... does this quote from the article make ANY sense at all???: "His parachute failed to open on his dive on 8 December. No technical problems were found with the parachute and the investigation was over."


Sounds like he had nothing out and that the parachute failed to function because he failed to deploy it. But yeah, bad wording because if he didn't deploy, the parachute did not fail. The Dutch police evidently confirmed his parachute worked. Just like the Dutch, turn a death investigation into a free jump.
 
2012-12-19 04:33:50 PM

Skwrl: StoPPeRmobile: Ban them all!

If we can save just one life. Why don't you want to save lives.

I'm 98% convinced you're a troll. Either that or you have a really fascinating (but in my opinion fairly delusional) world view. But I'll play along...

Look, you're using a computer, right? That computer was no doubt shipped to you through one of those methods you would ban. How would you get that computer? How many people die in construction accidents? Should we ban houses and all live in caves?

So as for "why don't I want to save lives?" The answer is "because preservation of life at all costs has never been the basic underpinning of any society, anywhere." I put great value on human life, but I also recognize that we can't exist as a hunter-gatherer society any more. (By the way, being a hunter-gatherer isn't, you know, the safest way to exist...)


You have to jump out of airplanes to get a computer to someone? I'm not following.
 
2012-12-19 05:08:30 PM

pounddawg: Skydiver here -- That DZ has terrible policies. We had a bad spot once and manifest was ever diligent to account for everyone on the plane.


Ditto here. Every DZ I've ever been to has someone count canopies before the next load goes up.

Plus it's just common courtesy where you don't want to let someone bounce (or experience a low opening) and then not have a beer ready before they get into the ambulance.
 
2012-12-19 05:10:34 PM

KillerAttackParrot: He failed to follow one important rule. If both canopies fail, track for your rigger.


We can hope his will retroactively rescinded the case of beer for the last repack.
 
2012-12-19 05:25:12 PM
funny-pictures-blog.com
 
2012-12-19 05:29:40 PM

StoPPeRmobile: Skwrl: StoPPeRmobile: Ban them all!

If we can save just one life. Why don't you want to save lives.

I'm 98% convinced you're a troll. Either that or you have a really fascinating (but in my opinion fairly delusional) world view. But I'll play along...

Look, you're using a computer, right? That computer was no doubt shipped to you through one of those methods you would ban. How would you get that computer? How many people die in construction accidents? Should we ban houses and all live in caves?

So as for "why don't I want to save lives?" The answer is "because preservation of life at all costs has never been the basic underpinning of any society, anywhere." I put great value on human life, but I also recognize that we can't exist as a hunter-gatherer society any more. (By the way, being a hunter-gatherer isn't, you know, the safest way to exist...)

You have to jump out of airplanes to get a computer to someone? I'm not following.


Clearly not - but is it intentional or unintentional? You wanted to ban cars and trains, per your prior post. I can almost guarantee that your computer came to you using at least one of those methods of transport.
 
2012-12-19 07:17:52 PM

Skwrl: StoPPeRmobile: Skwrl: StoPPeRmobile: Ban them all!

If we can save just one life. Why don't you want to save lives.

I'm 98% convinced you're a troll. Either that or you have a really fascinating (but in my opinion fairly delusional) world view. But I'll play along...

Look, you're using a computer, right? That computer was no doubt shipped to you through one of those methods you would ban. How would you get that computer? How many people die in construction accidents? Should we ban houses and all live in caves?

So as for "why don't I want to save lives?" The answer is "because preservation of life at all costs has never been the basic underpinning of any society, anywhere." I put great value on human life, but I also recognize that we can't exist as a hunter-gatherer society any more. (By the way, being a hunter-gatherer isn't, you know, the safest way to exist...)

You have to jump out of airplanes to get a computer to someone? I'm not following.

Clearly not - but is it intentional or unintentional? You wanted to ban cars and trains, per your prior post. I can almost guarantee that your computer came to you using at least one of those methods of transport.


Well I can't go around asking to ban computers in the library, now can I? Don't be silly.
 
2012-12-19 09:15:31 PM

ha-ha-guy: But the club said it had not launched a search as it was not usual for skydivers to report back after their jump.

The club has shiatty policies.



No, it has smart policies. Adults need to take responsibility for their actions. If you're concerned about this type of scenario before you jump. then please feel free to call a friend and ask them to sound the alarm if they don't hear from you by sunset. I don't need a mandatory check-in policy because you're too much of a baby to plan your own life.
 
2012-12-19 11:54:44 PM
Yeah, sounds like a perfectly creative suicide.

/I'd guess 3 weeks before anyone started looking for me, with one possible exception
 
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