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(Slate)   So, setting aside all the conservative derp and internet tough guy idiocy, here's the question: have armed citizens ever actually stopped a mass shooting? Answer: Yes, it's really only been successful when they've been off-duty cops   (slate.com) divider line 807
    More: Obvious, mass shooting, Sandy Hook, Louie Gohmert, warning shot, intervention  
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9328 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Dec 2012 at 9:28 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-19 09:16:57 AM  
Incidents of legally armed citizens committing crime are rare to the point of being non-existent.  It is nut jobs and criminals who commit crimes using guns.
 
2012-12-19 09:28:08 AM  
It's interesting that there are some people on here whom I believe, in years of posting, have never managed to make one remotely relevant or even vaguely sentient point.
 
2012-12-19 09:29:59 AM  

Pocket Ninja: It's interesting that there are some people on here whom I believe, in years of posting, have never managed to make one remotely relevant or even vaguely sentient point.


I suspect that's not what they are here for.
 
2012-12-19 09:30:39 AM  
So I guess we should all get rid of our guns and our rights, then.
 
2012-12-19 09:30:44 AM  
didnt read the article, but I think it makes a good point. People TRAINED to use guns, can prevent crimes. But people who just own guns, will most likely do more harm than good. This is why if you want to own a gun, you should have to pay for training and yearly or bi-annual evaluation. At least, thats my two cents.
 
2012-12-19 09:30:45 AM  

BillCo: Incidents of legally armed citizens committing crime are rare to the point of being non-existent.  It is nut jobs and criminals who commit crimes using guns.


There's the conservative derp. Bring on the internet tough guy!
 
2012-12-19 09:31:43 AM  
60% of the time, it works every time:

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-12-19 09:31:53 AM  
If it was stopped then it wouldn't be in the category of mass shooting would it? Isn't this the same problem the police have trying to justify how to get credit for crimes they prevented from ever happening?
 
2012-12-19 09:31:59 AM  

BillCo: Incidents of legally armed citizens committing crime are rare to the point of being non-existent.


I'm not sure I agree with that. Aren't there plenty of examples of someone using their legally obtained firearm on a cheating spouse/partner/whatever?
 
2012-12-19 09:32:23 AM  

idiocy: BillCo: Incidents of legally armed citizens committing crime are rare to the point of being non-existent.  It is nut jobs and criminals who commit crimes using guns.

There's the conservative derp. Bring on the internet tough guy!


I don't need a gun; I would simply use my 7th Dan Tangkwanjitsu to eliminate the threated. With my mind.
 
2012-12-19 09:32:34 AM  
Here's the question, has there ever been mass shootings on armed citizens?
 
2012-12-19 09:32:55 AM  
Because guns are only used in mass shootings, or even the majority of the time within the context of a mass shooting. Or mass shootings are a common thing.
 
2012-12-19 09:33:14 AM  
And couldn't it be that in the rare cases where it is stopped by off-duty cops it's because they were the only ones that were allowed to have a gun there?
 
2012-12-19 09:33:42 AM  

vinnydoz007: didnt read the article, but I think it makes a good point. People TRAINED to use guns, can prevent crimes. But people who just own guns, will most likely do more harm than good. This is why if you want to own a gun, you should have to pay for training and yearly or bi-annual evaluation. At least, thats my two cents.


Sounds like a good solution. As a bonus the government could accredit private companies to provide the training.
 
2012-12-19 09:34:12 AM  
I keep telling my gun bunny friends that this myth of 'armed civilians' putting down a rampaging nutter with a gun just isn't going to ever work in the real world.  the best/smartest thing anyone can do in a mass shooting scenario is to gather up everyone you can find and get them to safety.  let the cops sort it out, then help with the aftermath if you can. 
 
2012-12-19 09:34:21 AM  

BillCo: Incidents of legally armed citizens committing crime are rare to the point of being non-existent.  It is nut jobs and criminals who commit crimes using guns.

 
 
Circular reasoning is circular.  Of Course only criminals commit crimes.  and George Zimmerman is not non-existent
 
2012-12-19 09:34:34 AM  
Oh, here's another thought: aren't most mass shootings in a gun-free zone and hence any otherwise legal gun carrying citizen would be carrying it illegally?
 
2012-12-19 09:35:05 AM  

Tyranicle: Here's the question, has there ever been mass shootings on armed citizens?



yes.  we called it 'the US civil war'.  it was bad for property values in the south.
 
2012-12-19 09:35:13 AM  

vinnydoz007: didnt read the article, but I think it makes a good point. People TRAINED to use guns, can prevent crimes. But people who just own guns, will most likely do more harm than good. This is why if you want to own a gun, you should have to pay for training and yearly or bi-annual evaluation. At least, thats my two cents.


Some of us blow about $4-5k per year on training. :)
 
2012-12-19 09:35:24 AM  

BillCo: Incidents of legally armed citizens committing crime are rare to the point of being non-existent.  It is nut jobs and criminals who commit crimes using guns.



Aurora, CO, Virginia Tech, Ft, Hood, etc., etc., blah-freakin'-blah. 
 
I see you've regressed on that whole "think before you open your stupid, farking mouth" thing you've been working on since Kindergarten. 
 
2012-12-19 09:35:32 AM  
What about self-deputized Neighborhood Watch Captains?  I've recently promoted myself to Neighborhood Watch Commandant. 
 
The sheep sleep safer now that the shepherd is keeping back the wolves.  Ever vigilant...
 
2012-12-19 09:35:36 AM  
 
2012-12-19 09:35:40 AM  

BillCo: Incidents of legally armed citizens committing crime are rare to the point of being non-existent.  It is nut jobs and criminals who commit crimes using guns.

 
 
that was clever.  you misdirected the entire thread with that one.
 
2012-12-19 09:35:42 AM  

Weaver95: I keep telling my gun bunny friends that this myth of 'armed civilians' putting down a rampaging nutter with a gun just isn't going to ever work in the real world.  the best/smartest thing anyone can do in a mass shooting scenario is to gather up everyone you can find and get them to safety.  let the cops sort it out, then help with the aftermath if you can.


Sweet, that will really reassure me when he corners me in a back room.
 
2012-12-19 09:35:44 AM  

Tyranicle: Here's the question, has there ever been mass shootings on armed citizens?


The only thing that immediately comes to mind is the gunfight at the O.K. Corral and other frontier western incidents.
 
2012-12-19 09:36:25 AM  
And it's not very many, either, even in total.

In theory, citizens being armed sounds good. The problem arises, however, that if every ordinary citizen had a weapon, innocent bystanders would get shot. Further, if multiple people drew weapons to stop an attacker, in the confusion they might mistake each other for additional attackers (i.e. nobody knows if anyone else is friend or foe) and it'd be like the OK Corral in the shopping mall.

Then come the lawsuits. The lawyers are the only ones who make out in this scenario.
 
2012-12-19 09:36:26 AM  
Armed citizens shoot more criminals and less bystanders than police.
 
2012-12-19 09:36:31 AM  

Doom MD: Weaver95: I keep telling my gun bunny friends that this myth of 'armed civilians' putting down a rampaging nutter with a gun just isn't going to ever work in the real world.  the best/smartest thing anyone can do in a mass shooting scenario is to gather up everyone you can find and get them to safety.  let the cops sort it out, then help with the aftermath if you can.

Sweet, that will really reassure me when he corners me in a back room.



then don't get cornered in a back room.  duh.
 
2012-12-19 09:36:42 AM  
Have armed citizens ever stopped a massive government attack on their civil rights?
 
2012-12-19 09:36:55 AM  
www.troll.me

/still mildly entertaining
//grabs popcorn
 
2012-12-19 09:37:07 AM  

Unright: Tyranicle: Here's the question, has there ever been mass shootings on armed citizens?

The only thing that immediately comes to mind is the gunfight at the O.K. Corral and other frontier western incidents.


Oh, yeah. Ft. Hood would be a more recent example.
 
2012-12-19 09:37:27 AM  

BillCo: Incidents of legally armed citizens committing crime are rare to the point of being non-existent.  It is nut jobs and criminals who commit crimes using guns.


When someone commits a crime, he's automatically a criminal. Therefore, he's no longer a "legally armed citizen."

That's a nice circular argument you've made.
 
2012-12-19 09:37:34 AM  
having a gun doesn't make you robocop, news at 11
 
2012-12-19 09:37:47 AM  
Are you trying to tell me that someone who needs multiple automatic weapons with cop-killer bullets in order to feel like a man is going to run like a scared little girl at the first sign of trouble, and only those with appropriate training and character will react in a heroic fashion?

Unpossible!
 
2012-12-19 09:38:12 AM  

TheOther: Have armed citizens ever stopped a massive government attack on their civil rights?


You mean since the Arab Spring?
 
2012-12-19 09:38:36 AM  

IAtetheChupacabra: So I guess we should all get rid of our guns and our rights, then.


You are the only one proposing that, so...

/all our guns
//all our rights
///ALL THE THINGS
 
2012-12-19 09:38:43 AM  
I have saved thousands in my day dreams, including Sarah Palin.
 
2012-12-19 09:38:57 AM  

Tyranicle: Here's the question, has there ever been mass shootings on armed citizens?


Yes
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chai_Vang

And the BATF torched a house full of them once.
 
2012-12-19 09:38:59 AM  

vinnydoz007: didnt read the article, but I think it makes a good point. People TRAINED to use guns, can prevent crimes. But people who just own guns, will most likely do more harm than good. This is why if you want to own a gun, you should have to pay for training and yearly or bi-annual evaluation. At least, thats my two cents.


I think, too, that training in using a gun, the type of thing you need to get a CC permit, is a whole helluva lot different than training for its use in a battle situation. I'd imagine you could spend thousands of hours at a range or just plinking away at crap on a hillside and become really, really accurate, but be as useless in a shooting rampage situation as someone who barely knows which end of the gun lets loose the bullet.

I also find it funny how we constantly call the general public idiots in every Fark thread except the one where we think they should all be armed and carrying, as if being strapped somehow makes disciplined heroes out of the same people we normally call nimrods.
 
2012-12-19 09:39:00 AM  
Link

12 year old girl stops intruder with gun....wait - its not a mass shooting, just a single intruder being thwarted, so I guess it doesn't count...
 
2012-12-19 09:39:18 AM  

BillCo: Incidents of legally armed citizens committing crime are rare to the point of being non-existent.  It is nut jobs and criminals who commit crimes using guns.


Oh please. The Sandy Hook massacre was conducted by a "legally armed citizen". The weapons were legally purchased and there was no restriction for him to use them in a responsible manner (other than he used them to kill 27 people). Any number of murder/suicides and crimes of passion were no doubt conducted with legally purchased weapons as well.

Go take your NRA talking point and play in traffic with it.
 
2012-12-19 09:39:36 AM  

manimal2878: And couldn't it be that in the rare cases where it is stopped by off-duty cops it's because they were the only ones that were allowed to have a gun there?


And couldn't it be that if people were all given guns and anxiety-suppression drugs were added to the water, they could stop every crime before it happened???

Seriously, unless someone has had extensive training in weapons use under stress or has nerves of neutronium, they're as likely to miss or hit someone else as the target - and even with the training, it doesn't always take (see: the NYPD cops who managed to hit several bystanders in Manhattan earlier this year).

Just spreading more weapons around just increases the chances of bullets being fired when someone opens up. Unless the retaliatory shooter knows what they're doing and can handle the mortal fear, that's less than a guarantee of stopping the attacker.
 
2012-12-19 09:40:06 AM  

SquiggsIN: I've been shooting guns for 25 years and I don't need some smarmy jerk telling me how to use my firearms. To almost any gun owner I know, the concept of mandatory training/evaluation is idiotic. We don't even require yearly training/evals for driver's licenses and it's just as easy to kill someone with a 2 ton auto as it is with a firearm.



Well, I haven't been shooting for 25 years, but I have been for about 15 years.  I don't need anyone to tell me how to use mine either.  Also, I do most of my own auto maintenance, so I don't really need a mechanic to tell me my tires aren't bald and my headlights work.  But inspections aren't for me, they are for the person with the dangerous shiatbox.  I don't have a problem proving that I'm safe with my guns.
 
2012-12-19 09:40:11 AM  
www.conservativedrink.com 

Might tick off a few, but an example of a civilian stopping a shooter.
 
2012-12-19 09:40:27 AM  
Has freedom of speech ever stopped a mass shooting?

Guess we don't need that either.
 
2012-12-19 09:40:57 AM  

Vodka Zombie: BillCo: Incidents of legally armed citizens committing crime are rare to the point of being non-existent.  It is nut jobs and criminals who commit crimes using guns.


Aurora, CO, Virginia Tech, Ft, Hood, etc., etc., blah-freakin'-blah. 
 
I see you've regressed on that whole "think before you open your stupid, farking mouth" thing you've been working on since Kindergarten.

That's great, you could cite 3 nutjobs. Clearly your point is statistically significant and should be the lynchpin of future legislation.
 
2012-12-19 09:41:23 AM  
Anyone who thinks police "training" makes them special has obviously never been to a gun range. Some of the most scary awful shooters have a badge.
 
Then look at the news report of a typical shootout and compare shots fired to rounds that hit -- e.g. look at the crime scene photo of the Jose Guerena shooting in Arizona. Rounds *everywhere* including surrounding neighbors' homes.
 
Most police forces don't emphasize training enough and the only cops who are good are the ones who practice on their own time.
 
2012-12-19 09:41:37 AM  

Unright: BillCo: Incidents of legally armed citizens committing crime are rare to the point of being non-existent.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Aren't there plenty of examples of someone using their legally obtained firearm on a cheating spouse/partner/whatever?


Then those people are criminals.

"Only criminals commit gun crimes" = "No virgins have sex"
 
2012-12-19 09:41:38 AM  

BillCo: It is nut jobs and criminals who commit crimes using guns.


So, you mean to tell me it's criminals who commit crimes?

youdontsay.jpg
 
2012-12-19 09:41:40 AM  

kdawg7736: [www.conservativedrink.com image 850x887] 

Might tick off a few, but an example of a civilian stopping a shooter.


Know how I know you DNRTFA?
 
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