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(Denver Post)   News: Woman confronts her daughter's bullies at their school. Fark: With a semi-automatic handgun   (denverpost.com ) divider line
    More: Dumbass  
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8310 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Dec 2012 at 11:13 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



243 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2012-12-19 12:38:37 AM  
Who's going to protect your daughter now, Mom?
 
2012-12-19 12:55:23 AM  
fwiw, this happened last Thursday, a day before the Conn. shootings.

doesn't make her any less of a dumbass, but I think that had she waited another day, she may have reconsidered her actions.

then again, maybe not.
 
2012-12-19 03:44:50 AM  
no matter when it happened......yeesh....mother of the year? i don't know if I would be more scared of the gun or the bags under the eyes.

She seriously looks like she needs some sleep.

cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-19 09:30:48 AM  
This wouldn't have happened with a bolt-action handgun.
 
2012-12-19 09:51:22 AM  

homelessdude: She seriously looks like she needs some sleep.



Can't tell if those are scabs around her nose or not... meth?
 
2012-12-19 09:52:52 AM  
aren't all handguns pretty much semiautomatic? unless you have a single-action revolver, i guess. 
 
Pud
2012-12-19 09:58:54 AM  
At least it wasn't a full automatic assault handgun like an AK-Glock. That would have been REALLY bad
 
2012-12-19 10:00:03 AM  
What Americans should really be worried about, outside of regulation and restrictions, is that the reporting of gun ownership and usage will make it appear that it is completely normal, common, and acceptable by society to use firearms to address everyday problems.
 
The appearance of common ownership and usage will increase the negative incidents. The NRA really didn't think their plan through.
 
2012-12-19 10:50:08 AM  
The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.
 
2012-12-19 11:00:42 AM  
The idea that "If I have a beef with someone I can, as a private citizen, just go wave a gun around and scare everyone into submission with absolutely zero consequences -- and to increase the difficulty setting I'm going to wave the gun at teenagers on school grounds " is so asstardedly stupid I'm surprised that someone who thinks that way is capable of knowing which end of said gun to hold.
 
The first question on the background check should be "Are you going to use this gun to show everyone what a badass you are by pulling it out to try and intimidate someone who cut you off in traffic, took the last tater tots in the lunchroom and/or enjoyed an episode of 'Hillybilly Handfishing' you thought was trite and derivative?"
 
2012-12-19 11:15:56 AM  
This never would have happened if her daughter and those bullies were allowed to carry guns.
 
2012-12-19 11:16:15 AM  
If we arm the bullies, they'll be able to defend themselves from gun-toting mothers.
 
2012-12-19 11:16:33 AM  
Bet they won't bully her daughter again.
 
2012-12-19 11:17:12 AM  
Madafakin WILD PIGS ERRYWHERE!!!!!111!!!!1
 
2012-12-19 11:18:15 AM  
/facepalm
 
2012-12-19 11:18:49 AM  
"Brandishing" is a crime no matter if it's a gun, knife, sword, or any other weapon.
 
2012-12-19 11:19:19 AM  
Bullies serve a real purpose as nature's way of correcting abberant behaviour. Anti-Bullying measures are counter-productive. Without a bully to make him conform, a misfit continues to wallow in his own misery. With a bully, the misfit is given hard and firm lessons about fitting into society.
 
2012-12-19 11:19:42 AM  

Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.



That'll help, but it won't fix everything.  Their brand of dumbass has infused this country, making reasoned debate impossible.  Just look at the Tennessee bill that would require an armed teacher or resource officer on campus.  This is what the NRA has gotten us: the idea that somehow people who decide to go on mass shootings are deterred by other people with guns.  It's absurd.  If you're going to do something like this, the target is chosen for a reason and it isn't because you don't expect to get shot.  It's because you want to hurt people there.
 
I guarantee that bill will pass too.  The GOP has a supermajority in the TN assembly.  They can suspend normal rules by a party line vote whenever they want.
 
2012-12-19 11:19:52 AM  
Dear America,

Once everyone in your country has killed each other, can I have Disneyland?

Sincerely,

WhippingBoy
 
2012-12-19 11:20:06 AM  

Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.


Without the NRA the 2nd amendment would have been hollowed out a long time ago. Your friends sound like FUDDs.
 
2012-12-19 11:20:13 AM  
Oh no, not SEMI AUTOMATIC!!!

Subby are you sure it wasn't an AK-47 or a rocket launcher?
 
2012-12-19 11:20:25 AM  
Man, the media has really turned "semiautomatic" into a scary word.

There are basically 2 types of handguns: pistols and revolvers. Pistols are semiautos (unless they are single shot).

In fact, the argument could be made for a double action revolver to be "semiauto", because the act of pulling the trigger reloads another round, by advancing the cylinder.

/biatch was crazy, tho...
 
2012-12-19 11:20:46 AM  

Rapmaster2000: This wouldn't have happened with a bolt-action handgun.


If you just say "handgun", then it doesn't scare your readers enough and doesn't generate the desired level of hysterical panic and outrage.
 
2012-12-19 11:20:49 AM  
fark bullies, they're to blame for school shootings.

Want to end the violence?

Teach your little shiats that picking on kids in school is dangerous to their lives, that every time they shove them into a locker, laugh at them, make fun of their clothing, or call them poor, they're getting one step closer to that kid snapping.
 
2012-12-19 11:20:51 AM  
She should have done it off the school grounds... what a dumbass.
 
2012-12-19 11:20:58 AM  

litespeed74: Bet they won't bully her daughter again.



Actually, I'm betting on it getting worse.
 
2012-12-19 11:21:27 AM  
Boy, do we love guns in the US. Nevermind talking out our problems and compromising, that's for losers. Let's just shoot each other.

Someone on one of these posts the other day made a comment about the relation of gun ownership to fear. I think they may be on to something.
 
2012-12-19 11:21:30 AM  
She BELIEVED they were bullying her daughter. Its possible they were but its possible they weren't also.

If it was my kid she waived a gun at, she'd be safer behind bars.
 
2012-12-19 11:21:38 AM  
Wow, a semi-automatic? Those should be banned! All guns should hold one bullet max.

/even shotguns are semi-auto often
 
2012-12-19 11:21:39 AM  
You can't fix stupid.
 
2012-12-19 11:22:21 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: The idea that "If I have a beef with someone I can, as a private citizen, just go wave a gun around and scare everyone into submission with absolutely zero consequences -- and to increase the difficulty setting I'm going to wave the gun at teenagers on school grounds " is so asstardedly stupid I'm surprised that someone who thinks that way is capable of knowing which end of said gun to hold.
 
The first question on the background check should be "Are you going to use this gun to show everyone what a badass you are by pulling it out to try and intimidate someone who cut you off in traffic, took the last tater tots in the lunchroom and/or enjoyed an episode of 'Hillybilly Handfishing' you thought was trite and derivative?"


My gawd, man. Have you no sense of honor? These acts you speak of are provocative and demand an armed reaction.
 
2012-12-19 11:22:56 AM  

Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.


I think there should be required training and registration before you can exercise your Right to free speech. Otherwise, we end up with an effing shooting gallery of untrained asswits. It needs to stop.
 
2012-12-19 11:23:40 AM  
Good lord, another parent of the year candidate - can we treat these like Fark headlines and vote for our favorite? I don't care if this was pre or post Newtown - this is DUMB, MORONIC and accomplishes NADA. I hate to judge and all, but really? This was the best way to help your child?

I'm sure the girl is beyond mortified that her Mom is a doofus and has not only made things worse for her but now she's going to be subject to even more ridicule.

I hope this child gets help (there are folks that can help her out there, I hope she finds them ASAP) and that she does have at least one sane family / close friend out there that is in her corner.

Again, no winners...
 
2012-12-19 11:23:58 AM  

GAT_00: Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.


That'll help, but it won't fix everything.  Their brand of dumbass has infused this country, making reasoned debate impossible.  Just look at the Tennessee bill that would require an armed teacher or resource officer on campus.  This is what the NRA has gotten us: the idea that somehow people who decide to go on mass shootings are deterred by other people with guns.  It's absurd.  If you're going to do something like this, the target is chosen for a reason and it isn't because you don't expect to get shot.  It's because you want to hurt people there.
 
I guarantee that bill will pass too.  The GOP has a supermajority in the TN assembly.  They can suspend normal rules by a party line vote whenever they want.


I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.
 
2012-12-19 11:23:59 AM  

zabadu: You can't fix stupid.


There is a big bike ride in CO called Ride the Rockies and another sub-genius was arrested for threatening the riders with a shotgun.
 
2012-12-19 11:23:59 AM  
You go girl! Stand that ground!
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-19 11:24:19 AM  

FlashHarry: aren't all handguns pretty much semiautomatic? unless you have a single-action revolver, i guess.



No, a double action revolver is not semi-automatic.
 
2012-12-19 11:24:37 AM  
Stand your ground mom.
 
2012-12-19 11:24:42 AM  

iron_city_ap: She BELIEVED they were bullying her daughter. Its possible they were but its possible they weren't also.

If it was my kid she waived a gun at, she'd be safer behind bars.


If it was your kid maybe you should beat your kid for doing the bullying, kids aren't just making that shiat up, most of the time they're hiding it from their parents to the best of their abilities.

I had a PTSD-suffering Vietnam vet for a father, He would have put this woman to shame if i told him half the shiat that happened at school.
 
2012-12-19 11:24:44 AM  
Watch all the gun nuts hone in on "semi-automatic" vs actually engaging in a constructive discussion and solution. And, yes, this situation does require a solution.
 
2012-12-19 11:25:16 AM  
She sounds like a winner.
 
I know that whenever I wave a gun around to make a point, it all works out and I end up facing no consequences whatsoever.
 
2012-12-19 11:25:18 AM  

Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.


Noone offers more training or firearms education classes/seminars than the NRA.

The NRA has spent like 10m lobbying...the NRA foundation has spent 180 mill on training.
 
2012-12-19 11:25:38 AM  
Here's a picture of the daughter. She was being bullied because she was taking all the lunch money, would not make a sandwich.
 
i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-19 11:25:47 AM  

CruJones: Wow, a semi-automatic? Those should be banned! All guns should hold one bullet max.

/even shotguns are semi-auto often


I am old-school and still have a few single shots. One is a 36 inch barrel 12 gauge goose gun. Hurts to think about the kick.
 
2012-12-19 11:25:56 AM  

hinten: What Americans should really be worried about, outside of regulation and restrictions, is that the reporting of gun ownership and usage will make it appear that it is completely normal, common, and acceptable by society to use firearms to address everyday problems


Tried to find a picture of Homer shooting the lights in his house to turn them off... GIS failed me.
 
2012-12-19 11:26:08 AM  

zabadu: You can't fix stupid.


You can with a gun.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-19 11:26:15 AM  

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: Rapmaster2000: This wouldn't have happened with a bolt-action handgun.

If you just say "handgun", then it doesn't scare your readers enough and doesn't generate the desired level of hysterical panic and outrage.



Yes, it's silly to be worried about a crazy person with a gun at a school.
 
2012-12-19 11:26:35 AM  

Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.


This.

For decades, the NRA fought to make sure anyone, anywhere could get an untraceable gun.

Now they argue that you can't ban guns because anyone, anywhere could have an untraceable gun.

They've encouraged more fear and death in America than Al-Qaeda.

Score another point for "responsible owners" who are nice and responsible right up to the point where they could kill someone, or actually do kill someone.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-19 11:27:04 AM  

had98c: If we arm the bullies, they'll be able to defend themselves from gun-toting mothers.



That will be an NRA talking point soon.
 
2012-12-19 11:27:40 AM  

hinten: Watch all the gun nuts hone in on "semi-automatic" vs actually engaging in a constructive discussion and solution. And, yes, this situation does require a solution.


If you don't want it to be a hot-button topic, why bother including it in the description of the gun? It was clearly added to increase the hysteria over the story, so you can't get bent out of shape when it then upsets people.
 
2012-12-19 11:27:48 AM  

baronvonzipper: "Brandishing" is a crime no matter if it's a gun, knife, sword, or any other weapon.


Which, itself, is often a BS charge, since a cop can interpret "carrying" as "brandishing".
 
2012-12-19 11:28:45 AM  

Fail in Human Form: Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.

Without the NRA the 2nd amendment would have been hollowed out a long time ago. Your friends sound like FUDDs.


Well, they do spend a lot of their time hunting scwewy wabbits.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-19 11:28:49 AM  

Fail in Human Form: Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.

Without the NRA the 2nd amendment would have been hollowed out a long time ago. Your friends sound like FUDDs.



That would be a good thing.  Or even applying the actual constitutional second amendment that has "well regulated militia" in it.
 
2012-12-19 11:29:20 AM  

vpb: Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: Rapmaster2000: This wouldn't have happened with a bolt-action handgun.

If you just say "handgun", then it doesn't scare your readers enough and doesn't generate the desired level of hysterical panic and outrage.


Yes, it's silly to be worried about a crazy person with a gun at a school.


Yes, be very worried about the crazy person with the gun. However, that's not what the OP wants you to be worried about. He just wants you to be worried about the gun. Otherwise, he would have said "crazy woman" instead of just "woman". However, he took lots of care in pointing out the "scary" semi-automatic nature of the pistol.
 
2012-12-19 11:29:55 AM  

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: hinten: Watch all the gun nuts hone in on "semi-automatic" vs actually engaging in a constructive discussion and solution. And, yes, this situation does require a solution.

If you don't want it to be a hot-button topic, why bother including it in the description of the gun? It was clearly added to increase the hysteria over the story, so you can't get bent out of shape when it then upsets people.


"Hispanic, Christian cisgendered woman threatens white atheist student with semi-automatic assault glock and pit-bull"

Am I doing this right?
 
2012-12-19 11:30:11 AM  

Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.


Link

Interesting comment from the New Yorker about how the NRA pushed for a complete re-interpretation of the 2nd Amendment in the 70s.
 
2012-12-19 11:30:19 AM  

vpb: Or even applying the actual constitutional second amendment that has "well regulated militia" in it.


This has been decided, just because you don't like the way it was decided doesn't change that.
 
2012-12-19 11:30:50 AM  

Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.


I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.
 
2012-12-19 11:31:05 AM  

FlashHarry: aren't all handguns pretty much semiautomatic? unless you have a single-action revolver, i guess.


Using a musket just isn't practical for a job like this.
 
2012-12-19 11:31:59 AM  
dcist.com 

Everyone's much safer now.
 
2012-12-19 11:32:13 AM  

bigbadideasinaction: For decades, the NRA fought to make sure anyone, anywhere could get an untraceable gun.


They fought against registries...to make sure people couldn't be hassled or targetted much in the same way we protect voters by making their ballot secret.....same way we fight to protect the names and identities of those who recieve abortions.
 
2012-12-19 11:33:21 AM  

vpb:

That would be a good thing.  Or even applying the actual constitutional second amendment that has "well regulated militia" in it.


I don't think you understand what the term "well-regulated militia" means.
 
2012-12-19 11:34:16 AM  
There is an obvious pattern and an obvious solution here. If a state voted for Obama, they should have their guns taken away.
 
2012-12-19 11:34:48 AM  

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: hinten: Watch all the gun nuts hone in on "semi-automatic" vs actually engaging in a constructive discussion and solution. And, yes, this situation does require a solution.

If you don't want it to be a hot-button topic, why bother including it in the description of the gun? It was clearly added to increase the hysteria over the story, so you can't get bent out of shape when it then upsets people.

 
Quod erat demonstrandum.
 
2012-12-19 11:34:48 AM  

WippitGuud: hinten: What Americans should really be worried about, outside of regulation and restrictions, is that the reporting of gun ownership and usage will make it appear that it is completely normal, common, and acceptable by society to use firearms to address everyday problems

Tried to find a picture of Homer shooting the lights in his house to turn them off... GIS failed me.


How about the make-up gun?
farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2012-12-19 11:36:03 AM  
Everyone should carry a gun. EVERYONE!

/the NRA told me so
 
2012-12-19 11:36:15 AM  

Fail in Human Form: Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.

 
Without the NRA the 2nd amendment would have been hollowed out a long time ago. Your friends sound like FUDDs.
 
 
Without the NRA, we'd have sane gun laws by now.  Instead, we got 30 years of hostility and legal challenges and election funding and bribes.  The Second Amendment is an excuse, no more valid now than the Fourth Amendment is against a DEA seizure or the First Amendment is against a corporation buying out an election.
 
You sound like a gun nut.  Prepare your anus, and we aren't even giving you a pillow.
 
2012-12-19 11:36:30 AM  

homelessdude: no matter when it happened......yeesh....mother of the year? i don't know if I would be more scared of the gun or the bags under the eyes.

She seriously looks like she needs some sleep.

[cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com image 320x240]


Never mess with insomniac mom, never.
 
2012-12-19 11:37:21 AM  

GAT_00: Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.

 
 
That'll help, but it won't fix everything.  Their brand of dumbass has infused this country, making reasoned debate impossible.
 
Your statement prefaced with 'dumbass' tells me you're not prepared to make a reasoned debate.
 
When you resort to name calling, you've lost your credibility and your argument.
 
/Not a fan of the NRA.
 
2012-12-19 11:38:20 AM  

Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.


Why not call a spade a spade and demand 100% civilian confiscation?
 
2012-12-19 11:38:38 AM  

GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.


Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

There are three valid reasons for owning a gun: protection of person and property, hunting, and target shooting. I submit that you can satisfy all three of these with shotguns, revolvers, and bolt and lever action rifles. Everything else can be banned immediately without infringing on anyone's rights. It will take decades but eventually you won't see high capacity weapons being used for this sort of thing which will be a mild improvement. Obviously we also need to address mental health issues, and I'm including the doomsday fatalistic mindset here. If you think the world is going to end, you should undergo psychiatric evaluation before being allowed to have any weapons.
 
2012-12-19 11:38:56 AM  

GAT_00: I don't understand people like that. There are not mass knifings


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-12-19 11:40:42 AM  

GAT_00: There are not mass knifings


um

22 stabbed
 
2012-12-19 11:40:58 AM  
Single action revolver:

worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com

Semi automatic handgun:

i258.photobucket.com

I'd rather be shot with the second one...
 
2012-12-19 11:41:12 AM  

Generation_D: Fail in Human Form: Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.
 
Without the NRA the 2nd amendment would have been hollowed out a long time ago. Your friends sound like FUDDs.
 
 
Without the NRA, we'd have sane gun laws by now.  Instead, we got 30 years of hostility and legal challenges and election funding and bribes.  The Second Amendment is an excuse, no more valid now than the Fourth Amendment is against a DEA seizure or the First Amendment is against a corporation buying out an election.
 
You sound like a gun nut.  Prepare your anus, and we aren't even giving you a pillow.


So your argument is that since we infringe on one amendment it's ok to infringe on another one? How about we stop both?

/Decided to make the credit card cry a little and I'm going to the local gun shop to see if I can find an AR-15 in a few hours before you guys drive the price any higher
 
2012-12-19 11:41:33 AM  
Ban assault pistols!

Pistols that can fire round after round until it is out of ammo, with just a simple pull of the trigger are to dangerous.

I say we move back to dual action revolvers, or cap and ball.
 
2012-12-19 11:42:45 AM  

Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.


China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.
 
2012-12-19 11:43:13 AM  

PunGent: baronvonzipper: "Brandishing" is a crime no matter if it's a gun, knife, sword, or any other weapon.

Which, itself, is often a BS charge, since a cop can interpret "carrying" as "brandishing".


I believe Miss Manners called it "frightening the horses".
 
2012-12-19 11:43:15 AM  

Rapmaster2000: This wouldn't have happened with a bolt-action handgun.

i.walmartimages.com
 
2012-12-19 11:43:25 AM  

Fluid: FlashHarry: aren't all handguns pretty much semiautomatic? unless you have a single-action revolver, i guess.

Using a musket just isn't practical for a job like this.


Blunderbuss.

i45.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-19 11:45:38 AM  

Giltric: bigbadideasinaction: For decades, the NRA fought to make sure anyone, anywhere could get an untraceable gun.

They fought against registries...to make sure people couldn't be hassled or targetted much in the same way we protect voters by making their ballot secret.....same way we fight to protect the names and identities of those who recieve abortions.



Or driver licenses to drive cars! They deserve the same protection.
 
2012-12-19 11:46:26 AM  

fluffy2097: Ban assault pistols!

 
Pistols that can fire round after round until it is out of ammo, with just a simple pull of the trigger are to dangerous.
 
I say we move back to dual action revolvers, or cap and ball.
 
 
You can fire round after round with a dual action revolver.
 
You keep squeezing the trigger until it goes click
 
deathandtaxesmag.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com
 
2012-12-19 11:46:37 AM  

This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.


How many, exactly?
 
2012-12-19 11:50:35 AM  

GAT_00:   If you're going to do something like this, the target is chosen for a reason and it isn't because you don't expect to get shot.  It's because you want to hurt people there.


So assume the person wants to hurt people at a given location. The person obviously does not care if someone there is armed, according to you. Given that the criminal does not care about living or dying, what makes you think that having a person there to talk softly to the criminal is going to stop him.
 
2012-12-19 11:52:31 AM  

Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?


Three.
 
2012-12-19 11:53:00 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Your statement prefaced with 'dumbass' tells me you're not prepared to make a reasoned debate.

When you resort to name calling, you've lost your credibility and your argument.


Oh please.  Like the NRA is deserving of respect.
 

frepnog: GAT_00: There are not mass knifings

um

22 stabbed


Woo, one.  Find 5 worldwide in the last 10 years.  Mother Jones detailed 62 mass shootings in the US in just the last 30 years and half of those were in the last 10.
 
2012-12-19 11:53:16 AM  

frepnog: GAT_00: There are not mass knifings

um

22 stabbed


Link
 
2012-12-19 11:54:25 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: GAT_00:   If you're going to do something like this, the target is chosen for a reason and it isn't because you don't expect to get shot.  It's because you want to hurt people there.

So assume the person wants to hurt people at a given location. The person obviously does not care if someone there is armed, according to you. Given that the criminal does not care about living or dying, what makes you think that having a person there to talk softly to the criminal is going to stop him.


I like how you assumed for some reason that I think you can talk these people down.  Where did that particular straw man come from?
 
2012-12-19 11:55:16 AM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: You can fire round after round with a dual action revolver.


Fine. Cap and Ball it is.

Always wanted to try using antique technology like muskets.
 
2012-12-19 11:56:27 AM  

fluffy2097: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: You can fire round after round with a dual action revolver.

Fine. Cap and Ball it is.

Always wanted to try using antique technology like muskets.


I have a cap and ball revolver and two muzzle loading rifles. Fun to shoot, but a biatch to clean.
 
2012-12-19 11:57:13 AM  

hinten: Watch all the gun nuts hone in on "semi-automatic" vs actually engaging in a constructive discussion and solution. And, yes, this situation does require a solution.


I'm not a gun nut. I've never owned a gun and likely never will.

That doesn't change the fact that calling handguns "Semi-automatic" is an attempt to mislead the public into thinking you're talking about some special class of extra-lethal handgun.

Virtually all modern handguns are semi-automatic.

Next you'll be telling us about the dangers of letting people drink intoxicating alcohol before driving.
 
2012-12-19 11:58:24 AM  

fluffy2097: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: You can fire round after round with a dual action revolver.

Fine. Cap and Ball it is.

Always wanted to try using antique technology like muskets.


I have a Uberti 44 cal Walker that is amazing and can be mailed to your doorstep today.
 
2012-12-19 11:59:45 AM  

This text is now purple: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?

Three.


Cute. How many deaths? How about this, you pick your four best school stabbings in the last 13 years and we'll compare that with the four US school shootings with the most victims and compare shall we?

VA Tech 2007 - 32 dead, 17 injured
Newtown 2012 - 27 dead (and his mother)
Columbine 1999 - 13 dead, 21 injured
Red Lake 2004 - 7 dead, 5 injured (also killed 2 others before the school)

Total: 79 dead, 43 injured. An average of 20 dead and 10 injured per incident over four shootings.
 
2012-12-19 12:00:13 PM  
Just another responsible lawful gun owner...up till the moment they weren't anymore.
 
2012-12-19 12:00:40 PM  

Kiwimann: hinten: Watch all the gun nuts hone in on "semi-automatic" vs actually engaging in a constructive discussion and solution. And, yes, this situation does require a solution.

I'm not a gun nut. I've never owned a gun and likely never will.

That doesn't change the fact that calling handguns "Semi-automatic" is an attempt to mislead the public into thinking you're talking about some special class of extra-lethal handgun.

Virtually all modern handguns are semi-automatic.

Next you'll be telling us about the dangers of letting people drink intoxicating alcohol before driving.


Or go all the way
 
2012-12-19 12:01:03 PM  

This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.


The outcomes aren't always much different. That one particular one was, but others have been very bad.

Link
 
2012-12-19 12:02:00 PM  

Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?

Three.

Cute. How many deaths? How about this, you pick your four best school stabbings in the last 13 years and we'll compare that with the four US school shootings with the most victims and compare shall we?

VA Tech 2007 - 32 dead, 17 injured
Newtown 2012 - 27 dead (and his mother)
Columbine 1999 - 13 dead, 21 injured
Red Lake 2004 - 7 dead, 5 injured (also killed 2 others before the school)

Total: 79 dead, 43 injured. An average of 20 dead and 10 injured per incident over four shootings.


It's obviously not the body count that bothers you. Many more people die of a multitude of preventable things every year, so what is it about firearms that pushes your panic button?
 
2012-12-19 12:03:43 PM  

Carn: There are three valid reasons for owning a gun: protection of person and property, hunting, and target shooting. I submit that you can satisfy all three of these with shotguns, revolvers, and bolt and lever action rifles. Everything else can be banned immediately without infringing on anyone's rights. It will take decades but eventually you won't see high capacity weapons being used for this sort of thing which will be a mild improvement. Obviously we also need to address mental health issues, and I'm including the doomsday fatalistic mindset here. If you think the world is going to end, you should undergo psychiatric evaluation before being allowed to have any weapons


What are the valid reasons for having a vehicles? Or a pool? Or alcohol?

Can you satisfy them while banning types of vehicles, pools, and alcohol that people enjoy?

I have no particular attatchment to 'assault weapons' and don't even have a firearm at my house (shotgun at my parents), I have no moral opposition a ban on 'assault weapons' but I am sick of all these half assed arguments that pretend to be about safety.

You can't arbitrarily pick guns make up poorly thought out categories for what is acceptable to suit your approved uses and pretend you are doing it for "safety".
 
2012-12-19 12:04:02 PM  

Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.


The number of guns in the US is huge, on the order of 200 million. The number of spree killings to the number of guns sold per year is vanishingly small. Even if you remove the tool used, you haven't done anything about the mentally unstable person who thinks it's a great idea to kill a bunch of people. This kid in Newton would have probably gone for an IED if he couldn't get these guns. The fact that hie wiped and destroyed the hard drives in his computers shows that he was thinking "rationally" while he was in the midst of this.

I would be happy to see a requirement that any person who wants to purchase a firearm first attend and pass a mandatory gun safety class. I have, my kids all have and I'm considering taking the CCW class even though I don't have a handgun. That wouldn't do anything to stop mass shootings like Newton, but it would ensure that wannabe Rambos have had some gun safety training.

I'd support setting a national minnimum age to purchase guns at age 25. My kids have guns, but I own them and keep the combination to the safe, not them. This would cause some quirks since a 22 year old police officer wouldn't be able to purchase her own gun but would have to rely on a department issued gun. Again, this would have done nothing in Newton, but it would reduce access to the cohort that is most dangerous, men aged 18-25.

I would support requiring an FFL for the possetion of a magazine with a capacity over 15 rounds. That would make a tremendous amount of existing stock illegal though and there would need to be some accomodation. Something like a 10 year grace period where you can turn in a 30 round magazine and be reimbursed the cost of a 15 round magazine.

I would never support restrictions that do nothing like the previous assault weapons ban that banned "mean looking" guns.

It seems to me that the irrational position is to have a knee jerk emotional reaction and start passing stupid laws. The last thing we need is yet another TSA.
 
2012-12-19 12:05:19 PM  

Fail in Human Form: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?

Three.

Cute. How many deaths? How about this, you pick your four best school stabbings in the last 13 years and we'll compare that with the four US school shootings with the most victims and compare shall we?

VA Tech 2007 - 32 dead, 17 injured
Newtown 2012 - 27 dead (and his mother)
Columbine 1999 - 13 dead, 21 injured
Red Lake 2004 - 7 dead, 5 injured (also killed 2 others before the school)

Total: 79 dead, 43 injured. An average of 20 dead and 10 injured per incident over four shootings.

It's obviously not the body count that bothers you. Many more people die of a multitude of preventable things every year, so what is it about firearms that pushes your panic button?


Nice strawman. It should actually be obvious that the body count IS what bothers me. Oh and maybe the fact that we're talking about little kids. Who says I'm not in favor of preventing whatever other preventable deaths you are imagining?
 
2012-12-19 12:05:52 PM  
Another Knife attack (8 dead, many more injured)

Link
 
2012-12-19 12:08:05 PM  

Carn: Fail in Human Form: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?

Three.

Cute. How many deaths? How about this, you pick your four best school stabbings in the last 13 years and we'll compare that with the four US school shootings with the most victims and compare shall we?

VA Tech 2007 - 32 dead, 17 injured
Newtown 2012 - 27 dead (and his mother)
Columbine 1999 - 13 dead, 21 injured
Red Lake 2004 - 7 dead, 5 injured (also killed 2 others before the school)

Total: 79 dead, 43 injured. An average of 20 dead and 10 injured per incident over four shootings.

It's obviously not the body count that bothers you. Many more people die of a multitude of preventable things every year, so what is it about firearms that pushes your panic button?

Nice strawman. It should actually be obvious that the body count IS what bothers me. Oh and maybe the fact that we're talking about little kids. Who says I'm not in favor of preventing whatever other preventable deaths you are imagining?


Then why single out firearms ownership, a constitutionally protected right? How about we ban all fast food and you fight as hard for that as you're fighting against guns rights? It would save far many more lives every year.
 
2012-12-19 12:08:31 PM  

Carn: Nice strawman. It should actually be obvious that the body count IS what bothers me.


BS.

If body count was the issue you would be looking at things that kill far more people.
 
2012-12-19 12:08:40 PM  

Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?

Three.

Cute. How many deaths? How about this, you pick your four best school stabbings in the last 13 years and we'll compare that with the four US school shootings with the most victims and compare shall we?

VA Tech 2007 - 32 dead, 17 injured
Newtown 2012 - 27 dead (and his mother)
Columbine 1999 - 13 dead, 21 injured
Red Lake 2004 - 7 dead, 5 injured (also killed 2 others before the school)

Total: 79 dead, 43 injured. An average of 20 dead and 10 injured per incident over four shootings.


I'd be curious to know how many (if any at all) of these sprees involved the shooter being on any kind of SSRI meds...
 
2012-12-19 12:08:54 PM  
and the media's attack on guns continues...
 
2012-12-19 12:11:48 PM  

liam76: Carn: There are three valid reasons for owning a gun: protection of person and property, hunting, and target shooting. I submit that you can satisfy all three of these with shotguns, revolvers, and bolt and lever action rifles. Everything else can be banned immediately without infringing on anyone's rights. It will take decades but eventually you won't see high capacity weapons being used for this sort of thing which will be a mild improvement. Obviously we also need to address mental health issues, and I'm including the doomsday fatalistic mindset here. If you think the world is going to end, you should undergo psychiatric evaluation before being allowed to have any weapons

What are the valid reasons for having a vehicles? Or a pool? Or alcohol?

Can you satisfy them while banning types of vehicles, pools, and alcohol that people enjoy?

I have no particular attatchment to 'assault weapons' and don't even have a firearm at my house (shotgun at my parents), I have no moral opposition a ban on 'assault weapons' but I am sick of all these half assed arguments that pretend to be about safety.

You can't arbitrarily pick guns make up poorly thought out categories for what is acceptable to suit your approved uses and pretend you are doing it for "safety".


Excellent points. We have laws that determine what types of vehicles can be on the road and what safety measures they must include to be road worthy. We also require insurance for drivers, licenses and recurring testing. We have laws that say an unfenced below ground pool is a public nuisance and if a kid makes his way into your pool and drowns himself, you are liable. We have laws on what kind of alcoholic beverages are allowed for sale, who can make them, and they must also pass through many safety regulations set by FDA and other organizations.
 
2012-12-19 12:12:33 PM  
Where is the hero tag.

Its bullying that causes mass school shootings in the first place. This woman finally did something to stand up to them.
 
2012-12-19 12:13:01 PM  

Carn: Nice strawman. It should actually be obvious that the body count IS what bothers me. Oh and maybe the fact that we're talking about little kids. Who says I'm not in favor of preventing whatever other preventable deaths you are imagining?


Then we should ban airplanes because there are more mass deaths caused by air travel crashes than are caused by guns. While we're at it we should ban busses with a capacity of more than 10 seats since if you drive a full 60 passenger bus off a cliff and kill them that would ba a lot of people killed in one incident as well.
 
2012-12-19 12:14:41 PM  

liam76: Carn: Nice strawman. It should actually be obvious that the body count IS what bothers me.

BS.

If body count was the issue you would be looking at things that kill far more people.

liam76: Carn: Nice strawman. It should actually be obvious that the body count IS what bothers me.

BS.

If body count was the issue you would be looking at things that kill far more people.


What's the usual death rate among first graders? During school hours?
 
2012-12-19 12:14:54 PM  

GanjSmokr: I'd be curious to know how many (if any at all) of these sprees involved the shooter being on any kind of SSRI meds...



. . . or wearing black clothes.
 
2012-12-19 12:15:32 PM  

GanjSmokr: I'd be curious to know how many (if any at all) of these sprees involved the shooter being on any kind of SSRI meds...


If SSRI meds = anti-psychotic meds... then

Excellent point and I've been trying to get this info out there...

VA Tech = yes
Newtown = Yes
Columbine = yes
Red Lake = Yes

 
2012-12-19 12:16:47 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: The first question on the background check should be "Are you going to use this gun to show everyone what a badass you are by pulling it out to try and intimidate someone who cut you off in traffic, took the last tater tots in the lunchroom and/or enjoyed an episode of 'Hillybilly Handfishing' you thought was trite and derivative?"


Wait, is this the thread about the increase in sales of hillbilly porn?
 
2012-12-19 12:17:45 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: Carn: Nice strawman. It should actually be obvious that the body count IS what bothers me. Oh and maybe the fact that we're talking about little kids. Who says I'm not in favor of preventing whatever other preventable deaths you are imagining?

Then we should ban airplanes because there are more mass deaths caused by air travel crashes than are caused by guns. While we're at it we should ban busses with a capacity of more than 10 seats since if you drive a full 60 passenger bus off a cliff and kill them that would ba a lot of people killed in one incident as well.


How many more airplane deaths would there be if we didn't regulate the shiat out of the industry?
 
2012-12-19 12:20:03 PM  

WhippingBoy: Dear America,

Once everyone in your country has killed each other, can I have Disneyland?

Sincerely,

WhippingBoy


Dear WhippingBoy,

Your name is appropriate as your country is OUR WhippingBoy! Figures that you'd covet Disneyland, given the cesspool of shiat you live in. Impotency much?
 
2012-12-19 12:20:59 PM  

vegasj: If SSRI meds = anti-psychotic meds... then

Excellent point and I've been trying to get this info out there...

 
It's only an excellent point in the cases where the guns weren't stolen.
 
2012-12-19 12:20:59 PM  

Carn: Mr. Eugenides: Carn: Nice strawman. It should actually be obvious that the body count IS what bothers me. Oh and maybe the fact that we're talking about little kids. Who says I'm not in favor of preventing whatever other preventable deaths you are imagining?

Then we should ban airplanes because there are more mass deaths caused by air travel crashes than are caused by guns. While we're at it we should ban busses with a capacity of more than 10 seats since if you drive a full 60 passenger bus off a cliff and kill them that would ba a lot of people killed in one incident as well.

How many more airplane deaths would there be if we didn't regulate the shiat out of the industry?


You act like firearms manufactures can just slap together whatever junk they have laying around without any regulation.
 
2012-12-19 12:21:11 PM  

wambu: GanjSmokr: I'd be curious to know how many (if any at all) of these sprees involved the shooter being on any kind of SSRI meds...


. . . or wearing black clothes.


Well, one of those 2 things (SSRIs & black clothes) actually modify your brain... so... there's that.


vegasj: GanjSmokr: I'd be curious to know how many (if any at all) of these sprees involved the shooter being on any kind of SSRI meds...

If SSRI meds = anti-psychotic meds... then

Excellent point and I've been trying to get this info out there...

VA Tech = yes
Newtown = Yes
Columbine = yes
Red Lake = Yes


Thanks for enabling my laziness.
 
2012-12-19 12:21:35 PM  

Friction8r: WhippingBoy: Dear America,

Once everyone in your country has killed each other, can I have Disneyland?

Sincerely,

WhippingBoy

Dear WhippingBoy,

Your name is appropriate as your country is OUR WhippingBoy! Figures that you'd covet Disneyland, given the cesspool of shiat you live in. Impotency much?


So is that a "yes"?
 
2012-12-19 12:23:00 PM  

you have pee hands: It's only an excellent point in the cases where the guns weren't stolen.


Not really. Why do you wish to look past the fact they are all medicated? Perhaps wrongly medicated even?

 
2012-12-19 12:23:59 PM  

Flakeloaf: "Hispanic, Christian cisgendered woman threatens white atheist student bullies with semi-automatic assault glock and pit-bull. Sexting."

Am I doing this right?


FTFY
 
2012-12-19 12:24:16 PM  

you have pee hands: vegasj: If SSRI meds = anti-psychotic meds... then

Excellent point and I've been trying to get this info out there...
 
It's only an excellent point in the cases where the guns weren't stolen.


So we should only look at brain modifying medication if the guns used aren't stolen? And if someone shoots up a school with stolen guns, we should dismiss any SSRI usage?

notsureifserious.jpg
 
2012-12-19 12:24:36 PM  

CruJones: Wow, a semi-automatic? Those should be banned! All guns should hold one bullet max.

/even shotguns are semi-auto often


Fail in Human Form: Carn: Fail in Human Form: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?

Three.

Cute. How many deaths? How about this, you pick your four best school stabbings in the last 13 years and we'll compare that with the four US school shootings with the most victims and compare shall we?

VA Tech 2007 - 32 dead, 17 injured
Newtown 2012 - 27 dead (and his mother)
Columbine 1999 - 13 dead, 21 injured
Red Lake 2004 - 7 dead, 5 injured (also killed 2 others before the school)

Total: 79 dead, 43 injured. An average of 20 dead and 10 injured per incident over four shootings.

It's obviously not the body count that bothers you. Many more people die of a multitude of preventable things every year, so what is it about firearms that pushes your panic button?

Nice strawman. It should actually be obvious that the body count IS what bothers me. Oh and maybe the fact that we're talking about little kids. Who says I'm not in favor of preventing whatever other preventable deaths you are imagining?

Then why single out firearms ownership, a constitutionally protected right? How about we ban all fast food and you fight as hard for that as you're fighting against guns rights? It would save far many more lives every year.


Ive said it before and Ill say it again, its not about lives for these people, its about guns and thats all. They just want guns gone. They have this ingrained fear of the things. These are the same people who get panicked if they see a gun just sitting on a table. Just the presence of the inanimate object is enough to scare them, like its some predator thats going to jump up and attack without warning.

They are just as bad, maybe even worse, that the super pro-gun wackos. Equal amounts of derp, opposite ends of the spectrum. Both ends are nothing more than activists with agendas. They dont want fair, they just want their way.
 
2012-12-19 12:25:18 PM  

Carn: liam76: BS.

If body count was the issue you would be looking at things that kill far more people.

What's the usual death rate among first graders? During school hours?


You realize that death during school hours isn't the same as body count, right?

How many first graders are going to die this year because of gun violence compared to traffic, pool, or alcohol related falities? You don't know or care because you don't care about "body count".

Carn: Excellent points. We have laws that determine what types of vehicles can be on the road and what safety measures they must include to be road worthy.


Yeah. We don't have laws that say you can't own a car that can go faster than the speed limit.

We don't have laws saying you can't own x type of car for personal use off the road.


Carn: We also require insurance for drivers, licenses and recurring testing.


For drivers on public roads.


Carn: We have laws that say an unfenced below ground pool is a public nuisance and if a kid makes his way into your pool and drowns himself, you are liable.


I believe in most places if your gun is left out and used to hurt someone you can be sued.


Carn: We have laws on what kind of alcoholic beverages are allowed for sale, who can make them, and they must also pass through many safety regulations set by FDA and other organizations


So what are the 'legit uses' of alcohol? Can you satisfy those legit uses by banning alcohol over 9% abv? Why are you not arguing for that?
 
2012-12-19 12:27:11 PM  
"semi-automatic"
 
DRINK!
 
2012-12-19 12:27:32 PM  

GanjSmokr: Thanks for enabling my laziness.


No prob. PBS Frontline did a special, "The Medicated Child" (you can watch online)

In recent years, there's been a dramatic increase in the number of children being diagnosed with serious psychiatric disorders and prescribed medications that are just beginning to be tested in children. The drugs can cause serious side effects, and virtually nothing is known about their long-term impact. "It's really to some extent an experiment, trying medications in these children of this age," child psychiatrist Dr. Patrick Bacon tells FRONTLINE. "It's a gamble. And I tell parents there's no way to know what's going to work."

I wish more parents would watch this... and confront their kid's school and Dr before they openly give in to have their kids drugged up.

 
2012-12-19 12:28:24 PM  

vegasj: Not really. Why do you wish to look past the fact they are all medicated? Perhaps wrongly medicated even?



I may have misinterpreted your point.  If so, sorry.  A lot of people are wringing their hands and blaming spree shootings on the state of US mental health medical care or the fact that crazy people are getting access to guns, when that had nothing to do with this case at all.  The kid was clearly crazy but he came from a family well off enough to afford mental health care and he didn't buy the guns so a psychological background check for weapons purchase wouldn't have mattered either.
 
2012-12-19 12:28:33 PM  
I would comment there are a lot of wild ass frothing mouthed evil kids who need to be confronted with a handgun but this week seems like the wrong time to post anything like that, so I won't.
 
2012-12-19 12:32:36 PM  
Just renewed my NRA membership yesterday.

Bring on the hate b*tches.
 
2012-12-19 12:35:28 PM  

WhippingBoy: Friction8r: WhippingBoy: Dear America,

Once everyone in your country has killed each other, can I have Disneyland?

Sincerely,

WhippingBoy

Dear WhippingBoy,

Your name is appropriate as your country is OUR WhippingBoy! Figures that you'd covet Disneyland, given the cesspool of shiat you live in. Impotency much?

So is that a "yes"?


No, that's a "Why don't you gather your unarmed countrymen and feeble military and try to take Disneyland from us?" Mickey Mouse alone would mop the floor with you pansies.
 
2012-12-19 12:36:23 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: I would comment there are a lot of wild ass frothing mouthed evil kids who need to be confronted with a handgun but this week seems like the wrong time to post anything like that, so I won't.


But it's true.

And it isn't the loners/losers that need it, it's the popular kids.
 
2012-12-19 12:37:24 PM  

you have pee hands: The kid was clearly crazy but he came from a family well off enough to afford mental health care and he didn't buy the guns so a psychological background check for weapons purchase wouldn't have mattered either.


I do agree his mother was an irrisponsible gun owner if he could get them that easily.

But the answer would be to a) school gun owners more on firearm ownership & b) investigate more closely these drugs (typically adult drugs) that they are feeding today's children... because they seem to have a factor in making them tomorrow's nutcases.

 
2012-12-19 12:39:39 PM  

GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.


surely this late in the thread, someone will have pointed out that little episode in china that happened on the same day

but, you know, it's in china

which isn't the u.s. or israel

so it doesn't count

right?

/do agree that high capacity semi auto rifles being widely available to the public doesn't help
 
2012-12-19 12:43:15 PM  

Friction8r: WhippingBoy: Friction8r: WhippingBoy: Dear America,

Once everyone in your country has killed each other, can I have Disneyland?

Sincerely,

WhippingBoy

Dear WhippingBoy,

Your name is appropriate as your country is OUR WhippingBoy! Figures that you'd covet Disneyland, given the cesspool of shiat you live in. Impotency much?

So is that a "yes"?

No, that's a "Why don't you gather your unarmed countrymen and feeble military and try to take Disneyland from us?" Mickey Mouse alone would mop the floor with you pansies.


Ha! You slay me! Thanks for the yuks!
 
2012-12-19 12:45:47 PM  

inner ted: GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.

surely this late in the thread, someone will have pointed out that little episode in china that happened on the same day

but, you know, it's in china

which isn't the u.s. or israel

so it doesn't count

right?

/do agree that high capacity semi auto rifles being widely available to the public doesn't help


High Capacity = ?
Semi-auto=majority of firearms
Rifle=hard to conceal if commission of crime is your goal.
 
2012-12-19 12:46:38 PM  

dustygrimp: Flakeloaf: "Hispanic, Christian cisgendered woman threatens white atheist student bullies with semi-automatic assault glock and pit-bull. Sexting."

Am I doing this right?

FTFY


I bow to your superior hotbutton-mashing.
 
2012-12-19 12:46:58 PM  
In rare cases, one should be able to deny someone a gun base on looks alone. If this chick walked into your store and wanted a gun, wouldn't you take one look at her and think, "mmmno...no no... Just no. "

/kidding
//kind of
 
2012-12-19 12:47:42 PM  

Fail in Human Form:

/Decided to make the credit card cry a little and I'm going to the local gun shop to see if I can find an AR-15 in a few hours before you guys drive the price any higher


Actually, that would be YOU guys, and your NRA.

I'm not going to make judgement calls on the NRA's pros vs. it's undeniable cons, I'm just going to point out that it has opposed reasonable and logical suggestions towards hurting the black market for guns because their corporate backers (you did know they had corporate backers, right?) still turn a profit off of the black market. Because every gun IN the black market was once sold to, and will be replaced at great expense by, the sacrosanct and ever-vigilant Legitimate Legal Responsible Gun Owners™.
 
2012-12-19 12:47:44 PM  

Flakeloaf: dustygrimp: Flakeloaf: "Hispanic, Christian cisgendered woman threatens white atheist student bullies with semi-automatic assault glock and pit-bull. Sexting."

Am I doing this right?

FTFY

I bow to your superior hotbutton-mashing.


You're missing "ableist" and "classist".
 
2012-12-19 12:48:42 PM  

Pud: At least it wasn't a full automatic assault handgun like an AK-Glock. That would have been REALLY bad


Really not helping. Liberals actually believe that stuff like that exists.
 
2012-12-19 12:49:13 PM  
BUT BUT BUT

www.ryeflorida.org


PIGS
 
2012-12-19 12:52:19 PM  

letrole: Bullies serve a real purpose as nature's way of correcting abberant ABERRANT behaviour. Anti-Bullying measures are counter-productive. Without a bully to make him conform, a misfit continues to wallow in his own misery. With a bully, the misfit is given hard and firm lessons about fitting into society.


If non-conformists had not been given their freedom to act in the way they do, many of the great inventions of the world would probably not even exist.

///Why are Steve Jobs and Bill Gates wasting all their time tinkering with computers instead of learning how to be good school football jocks like the rest of us? Let's bully them until they lose their passion for electronics, then we will feel safe and vindicated in our douchebag lifestyles!
 
2012-12-19 12:55:03 PM  

liam76: Carn: liam76: BS.

If body count was the issue you would be looking at things that kill far more people.

What's the usual death rate among first graders? During school hours?

You realize that death during school hours isn't the same as body count, right?

How many first graders are going to die this year because of gun violence compared to traffic, pool, or alcohol related falities? You don't know or care because you don't care about "body count".

Carn: Excellent points. We have laws that determine what types of vehicles can be on the road and what safety measures they must include to be road worthy.

Yeah. We don't have laws that say you can't own a car that can go faster than the speed limit.

We don't have laws saying you can't own x type of car for personal use off the road.


Carn: We also require insurance for drivers, licenses and recurring testing.

For drivers on public roads.


Carn: We have laws that say an unfenced below ground pool is a public nuisance and if a kid makes his way into your pool and drowns himself, you are liable.

I believe in most places if your gun is left out and used to hurt someone you can be sued.


Carn: We have laws on what kind of alcoholic beverages are allowed for sale, who can make them, and they must also pass through many safety regulations set by FDA and other organizations

So what are the 'legit uses' of alcohol? Can you satisfy those legit uses by banning alcohol over 9% abv? Why are you not arguing for that?


In your mind it's impossible for me to be against gun violence, especially in schools, while also also being in favor of certain measures to improve public safety in other regards?
 
2012-12-19 12:57:13 PM  

Sultan Of Herf: CruJones:

Then why single out firearms ownership, a constitutionally protected right? How about we ban all fast food and you fight as hard for that as you're fighting against guns rights? It would save far many more lives every year.

Ive said it before and Ill say it again, its not about lives for these people, its about guns and thats all. They just want guns gone. They have this ingrained fear of the things. These are the same people who get panicked if they see a gun just sitting on a table. Just the presence of the inanimat ...


Strawman. I'm not anti-gun and yet I'm having a conversation, apparently with myself, about a possible moderate stance somewhere between "All guns are ok and everyone should have them!" and "All guns are bad and no one should have any!". I guess I'll stop wasting my time.
 
2012-12-19 12:58:04 PM  

GAT_00: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Your statement prefaced with 'dumbass' tells me you're not prepared to make a reasoned debate.

When you resort to name calling, you've lost your credibility and your argument.

Oh please.  Like the NRA is deserving of respect.
 
frepnog: GAT_00: There are not mass knifings

um

22 stabbed

Woo, one.  Find 5 worldwide in the last 10 years.  Mother Jones detailed 62 mass shootings in the US in just the last 30 years and half of those were in the last 10.


Mother jones also counted the newark schoolyard shooting where the victims were hacked and sliced and tortured with machetes....and then shot in the head.

I pretty much stopped reading Mother Jones after that.
 
2012-12-19 12:59:06 PM  

Girion47: fark bullies, they're to blame for school shootings.

Want to end the violence?

Teach your little shiats that picking on kids in school is dangerous to their lives, that every time they shove them into a locker, laugh at them, make fun of their clothing, or call them poor, they're getting one step closer to that kid snapping.


I learned that in high school. The freshmen were always picked on on the bus. I sat the furthest back of the freshmen usually and therefore got the most abuse. I tried the whole ignore them and it will go away thing and it didn't really work. One day I just turned around quietly and calmly and said "You know what they say about those kids who shot up Columbine, they were quiet and picked on until they decided not to take it anymore."

Never got picked on again really.
 
2012-12-19 12:59:25 PM  

Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?

Three.

Cute. How many deaths? How about this, you pick your four best school stabbings in the last 13 years and we'll compare that with the four US school shootings with the most victims and compare shall we?

VA Tech 2007 - 32 dead, 17 injured
Newtown 2012 - 27 dead (and his mother)
Columbine 1999 - 13 dead, 21 injured
Red Lake 2004 - 7 dead, 5 injured (also killed 2 others before the school)

Total: 79 dead, 43 injured. An average of 20 dead and 10 injured per incident over four shootings.


Seriously....I mean 17k children are injured per year from school bus accidents...and some of those bus drivers were even drunk.
 
2012-12-19 01:01:37 PM  

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: hinten: Watch all the gun nuts hone in on "semi-automatic" vs actually engaging in a constructive discussion and solution. And, yes, this situation does require a solution.

If you don't want it to be a hot-button topic, why bother including it in the description of the gun? It was clearly added to increase the hysteria over the story, so you can't get bent out of shape when it then upsets people.



An adult <i>threatened middle-schoolers with a gun</i>. I damn well hope we don't <i>need</i> qualifiers to amp up hysteria, this is something people should get upset about.
 
/Some middle-schoolers are bullies. <i>All</i> people under eighteen are children. As such, even if they misbehave, they deserve every single protection society offers them. There are no possible circumstances aside from saving your own life where pulling a gun on a child is okay.
 
2012-12-19 01:02:38 PM  

Giltric: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?

Three.

Cute. How many deaths? How about this, you pick your four best school stabbings in the last 13 years and we'll compare that with the four US school shootings with the most victims and compare shall we?

VA Tech 2007 - 32 dead, 17 injured
Newtown 2012 - 27 dead (and his mother)
Columbine 1999 - 13 dead, 21 injured
Red Lake 2004 - 7 dead, 5 injured (also killed 2 others before the school)

Total: 79 dead, 43 injured. An average of 20 dead and 10 injured per incident over four shootings.

Seriously....I mean 17k children are injured per year from school bus accidents...and some of those bus drivers were even drunk.


So you're going with the "I'm pro drunk school bus drivers" strawman argument or was it the "injuries in school bus accidents are just as bad as being shot in the face in the middle of class" moral false equivalency? Perhaps you'd like to follow up with an adhominem attack for the tri-fecta?
 
2012-12-19 01:03:41 PM  

Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.


The NRA is the one contributing to a culture of armed violence? Looking at the top grossing films of 2012, the top six feature violence and/or specifically gun violence. We also know of some 2012 movies too late in the year to be top grossing, but which also feature violence (one case in point The Dark Knight Rises). Of course, gangster movies and war movies always do great in the cinemas...

Looking at the Top 50 video games, half of them involved violence/combat and/or specifically gun-related violence (e.g. Halo 4, Call of Duty II). The top three TV programs/series in 2012 all feature violence as a main theme: The Walking Dead, Dexter and Homeland.

Of course, the media handling of these true-life incidents don't do the public safety any favours, right? They basically glorify the shooter...how much do you know about the shooter (in recent cases) versus the victims? Of course, today culture totally rewards misbehaviour and attention-whoring. Some people can't get attention the good way, so they choose notoriety over anonymity.

It was hard to find a list of most popular toys of 2012 that didn't have some shaky premises. But of course toy guns have been part of our culture since...forever. Give a kid a stick, in 2 minutes it's a gun. Plus, of course, the role of guns in play...BB guns, pellet guns, airsoft, nerf, paintball tourneys, war re-enactments, hunting, sport (e.g. target shooting).

If guns are so terrible, then we ought to ban guns on screen just as we've banned cigarettes, right?

So we have TV, Movies and Video games as well as the role of guns in simple playing, which, IMHO, shape culture a lot more than a fringe organization such as the NRA.

P.S. This isn't about being anti-violence - I love violence on TV, Movies and video games...send it my way.
 
2012-12-19 01:04:53 PM  

Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.


Events in the UK and China have proven your coworker is correct and you are wrong.

Just because you choose to ignore facts and reality does not make the reality you constructed in your mind real.
 
2012-12-19 01:05:28 PM  

Pud: At least it wasn't a full automatic assault handgun like an AK-Glock. That would have been REALLY bad


Thats an AK-15-Glock, dumbass.
 
2012-12-19 01:07:48 PM  

hinten: Watch all the gun nuts hone in on "semi-automatic" vs actually engaging in a constructive discussion and solution. And, yes, this situation does require a solution.


Watch all the liar liberals make shiat up to prevent a rational discussion from occurring, replacing it instead with a hysterical emotional one.

These people have HEAT SEEKING AUTOMATIC GUNS they just hold them and it aims at the heads of babies and kills them!!!!


I also fail to see why killing kindergartners is so heinous but murdering babies is just fine.
 
2012-12-19 01:07:53 PM  

Carn: Giltric: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?

Three.

Cute. How many deaths? How about this, you pick your four best school stabbings in the last 13 years and we'll compare that with the four US school shootings with the most victims and compare shall we?

VA Tech 2007 - 32 dead, 17 injured
Newtown 2012 - 27 dead (and his mother)
Columbine 1999 - 13 dead, 21 injured
Red Lake 2004 - 7 dead, 5 injured (also killed 2 others before the school)

Total: 79 dead, 43 injured. An average of 20 dead and 10 injured per incident over four shootings.

Seriously....I mean 17k children are injured per year from school bus accidents...and some of those bus drivers were even drunk.

So you're going with the "I'm pro drunk school bus drivers" strawman argument or was it the "injuries in school bus accidents are just as bad as being shot in the face in the middle of class" moral false equivalency? Perhaps you'd like to follow up with an adhominem attack for the tri-fecta?


Nope...I'm just gonna let you keep talking.
 
2012-12-19 01:10:15 PM  

Bullseyed: hinten: Watch all the gun nuts hone in on "semi-automatic" vs actually engaging in a constructive discussion and solution. And, yes, this situation does require a solution.

Watch all the liar liberals make shiat up to prevent a rational discussion from occurring, replacing it instead with a hysterical emotional one.

These people have HEAT SEEKING AUTOMATIC GUNS they just hold them and it aims at the heads of babies and kills them!!!!


I also fail to see why killing kindergartners is so heinous but murdering babies is just fine.


Well getting shot hurts a whole lot....but disecting and Cuisinarting babies in the womb that you can see react to the violence being perpetrated upon them via the ultra sound doesn't hurt at all.....we'll get over it...
 
2012-12-19 01:12:08 PM  
I think we need to use "semiautomatic" for other issues. When a teacher is banging her students, can we say she had a semiautomatic vagina?
 
2012-12-19 01:13:48 PM  

bigbadideasinaction:

For decades, the NRA fought to make sure anyone, anywhere could get an untraceable gun.

Now they argue that you can't ban guns because anyone, anywhere could have an untraceable gun.

They've encouraged more fear and death in America than Al-Qaeda.


Pour vous
 
2012-12-19 01:18:52 PM  

GAT_00: Nutsac_Jim: GAT_00:   If you're going to do something like this, the target is chosen for a reason and it isn't because you don't expect to get shot.  It's because you want to hurt people there.

So assume the person wants to hurt people at a given location. The person obviously does not care if someone there is armed, according to you. Given that the criminal does not care about living or dying, what makes you think that having a person there to talk softly to the criminal is going to stop him.

I like how you assumed for some reason that I think you can talk these people down.  Where did that particular straw man come from?


I guess it is because i think it would be tough to find people willing to be unarmed security guards when the threat is expected to be a person willing to die.
 
2012-12-19 01:20:22 PM  

bowtiesheep: bigbadideasinaction:

 
For decades, the NRA fought to make sure anyone, anywhere could get an untraceable gun.
 
Now they argue that you can't ban guns because anyone, anywhere could have an untraceable gun.
 
They've encouraged more fear and death in America than Al-Qaeda.
 
 
Pour vous
 
Linking to a Progressive website to support a Liberal accusation? 
Shocking!
 
2012-12-19 01:22:39 PM  

Bullseyed: I think we need to use "semiautomatic" for other issues. When a teacher is banging her students, can we say she had a semiautomatic vagina?


Semiautomatic transmission

3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-19 01:24:46 PM  

amquelbettamin: Bullseyed: I think we need to use "semiautomatic" for other issues. When a teacher is banging her students, can we say she had a semiautomatic vagina?

Semiautomatic transmission


Semiautomatic espresso maker

espressocoffeeprofessional.com
 
2012-12-19 01:25:15 PM  
I thought an armed society was a polite society?
This doesn't seem very polite.
 
2012-12-19 01:26:32 PM  

frepnog: GAT_00: There are not mass knifings

um

22 stabbed


we should ban knives

and forks, spoons
 
2012-12-19 01:30:15 PM  

Carn: liam76: Carn: liam76: BS.

If body count was the issue you would be looking at things that kill far more people.

What's the usual death rate among first graders? During school hours?

You realize that death during school hours isn't the same as body count, right?

How many first graders are going to die this year because of gun violence compared to traffic, pool, or alcohol related falities? You don't know or care because you don't care about "body count".

Carn: Excellent points. We have laws that determine what types of vehicles can be on the road and what safety measures they must include to be road worthy.

Yeah. We don't have laws that say you can't own a car that can go faster than the speed limit.

We don't have laws saying you can't own x type of car for personal use off the road.


Carn: We also require insurance for drivers, licenses and recurring testing.

For drivers on public roads.


Carn: We have laws that say an unfenced below ground pool is a public nuisance and if a kid makes his way into your pool and drowns himself, you are liable.

I believe in most places if your gun is left out and used to hurt someone you can be sued.


Carn: We have laws on what kind of alcoholic beverages are allowed for sale, who can make them, and they must also pass through many safety regulations set by FDA and other organizations

So what are the 'legit uses' of alcohol? Can you satisfy those legit uses by banning alcohol over 9% abv? Why are you not arguing for that?

In your mind it's impossible for me to be against gun violence, especially in schools, while also also being in favor of certain measures to improve public safety in other regards?


Carn: In your mind it's impossible for me to be against gun violence, especially in schools, while also also being in favor of certain measures to improve public safety in other regards?


I think my message had been pretty clear, I don't see why you want to make things up about "my mind".

If your concern for the safety of schopol children is "body count" (which you claimed earlier) then you would not make guns your number one priority.

If your primary concern was "gun violence" you would go after the primary source of gun crime people who obtain guns illegally.

As for the rest of the post I am just illustrating your double standards on willy nilly declaring what is "acceptable" for people to use.
 
2012-12-19 01:30:39 PM  

I drunk what: frepnog: GAT_00: There are not mass knifings

um

22 stabbed

we should ban knives

and forks, spoons


You laugh, but here's a story of a grandmother forked to death by her grandson

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow /2012/12/woman-apparently-stabbe d -to-death-with-barbeque-fork-lapd-says .html
 
2012-12-19 01:32:22 PM  

GAT_00: Woo, one.  Find 5 worldwide in the last 10 years.


yeah one doesn't prove anything, we need to have at least 5 examples before we can believe it's real, and if it happened before 10 years ago, they don't count, because the ancient laws of physics don't apply to the modern world

we should ban science, and critical thinking
 
2012-12-19 01:33:47 PM  

amquelbettamin: You laugh


banning stuff is no laughing matter

we should ban sarcasm
 
2012-12-19 01:37:55 PM  

WhippingBoy: Dear America,

Once everyone in your country has killed each other, can I have Disneyland?

Sincerely,

WhippingBoy


everyone in your country gets along with each other? can i move there?

wait does everyone agree on the intelligent correct choices? that might be important...
 
2012-12-19 01:42:42 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: bowtiesheep: bigbadideasinaction:
 
For decades, the NRA fought to make sure anyone, anywhere could get an untraceable gun.
 
Now they argue that you can't ban guns because anyone, anywhere could have an untraceable gun.
 
They've encouraged more fear and death in America than Al-Qaeda.
 
 
Pour vous
 
Linking to a Progressive website to support a Liberal accusation? 
Shocking!


What a constructive comment. May I sit and bask in your magnificence or would you like to spin the wheel and play again?

/It's all just food for thought. Appetizers. No one's interested in your gourmet sh*t sandwich, buddy
 
2012-12-19 01:47:27 PM  

Girion47: inner ted: GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.

surely this late in the thread, someone will have pointed out that little episode in china that happened on the same day

but, you know, it's in china

which isn't the u.s. or israel

so it doesn't count

right?

/do agree that high capacity semi auto rifles being widely available to the public doesn't help

High Capacity = well, if a hunting rifle is limited to what... 5-7 - then i think we can reasonably assume that 30 is high capacity
Semi-auto=majority of firearms - but the majority of firearms are not semi auto rifles with magazines capable of carrying 10+ rounds - do you see the difference between the entirety of what i said vs. you just parting out bits to take it out of context?
Rifle=hard to conceal if commission of crime is your goal.

no it's not

or
perhaps pics are more your thing than words
assets.bizjournals.com
 
2012-12-19 01:51:00 PM  

liam76: I think my message had been pretty clear, I don't see why you want to make things up about "my mind".

If your concern for the safety of schopol children is "body count" (which you claimed earlier) then you would not make guns your number one priority.

If your primary concern was "gun violence" you would go after the primary source of gun crime people who obtain guns illegally.

As for the rest of the post I am just illustrating your double standards on willy nilly declaring what is "acceptable" for people to use.


If there are shootings taking place in schools, then there is a problem with shootings in schools and it needs to be addressed. If there is a problem with something else that kills more children than that should also be addressed. 0 should be the accepted body count for school shootings and that should be what we strive for. I have only made some possible suggestions as to how we might try to accomplish that. Just because more children are killed in car wrecks than shootings does not mean that we should just compare them, pretend that there is no problem with school shootings, or that they are morally and socially acceptable. In this particular shooting, the attack was done with legally owned weapons. We can talk about mental health treatment as one major aspect of this problem. We can also bring up the question that if you have a mentally ill person in your home, should that effect your ability to legally own weapons?
 
2012-12-19 01:55:57 PM  

kombat_unit:  Why not call a spade a spade and demand 100% civilian confiscation?


Why, so you'll have something to whine about? I notice that very few people are talking about confiscating all guns, since it's impossible. But I also notice that people like you have already come up with "anti-gun" to describe people who'd like some better rules for how and who owns guns, even though most Americans are not actually "anti-gun."

I'm a farktarded lib and I own a gun. I needed one to protect myself from some lunatic who owns a lot of guns. Some of us even enjoy them and go out shooting, or hunting. Yet we're "anti-gun." But since you have no good arguments for allowing every nutty person on earth to own highly lethal weapons, just make up another buzzword for your cause. If you can scare all the gun-huggers enough (more), it keeps you from having to defend the indefensible.
 
2012-12-19 01:56:04 PM  

inner ted: Girion47: inner ted: GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.

surely this late in the thread, someone will have pointed out that little episode in china that happened on the same day

but, you know, it's in china

which isn't the u.s. or israel

so it doesn't count

right?

/do agree that high capacity semi auto rifles being widely available to the public doesn't help

High Capacity = well, if a hunting rifle is limited to what... 5-7 - then i think we can reasonably assume that 30 is high capacity
Semi-auto=majority of firearms - but the majority of firearms are not semi auto rifles with magazines capable of carrying 10+ rounds - do you see the difference between the entirety of what i said vs. you just parting out bits to take it out of context?
Rifle=hard to conceal if commission of crime is your goal.no it's not

or
perhaps pics are more your thing than words


Think fast, which is more deadly?

www.tactical-life.com

Or

forum.gon.com
 
2012-12-19 01:57:44 PM  

amquelbettamin: Think fast, which is more deadly?

www.tactical-life.com

Or

forum.gon.com


Not enough information. Range to target?
 
2012-12-19 01:59:58 PM  

you have pee hands: amquelbettamin: Think fast, which is more deadly?

www.tactical-life.com

Or

forum.gon.com

Not enough information. Range to target?


Ah, by your answer it's clear you know enough to know what I mean :) quit being difficult.
 
2012-12-19 02:02:38 PM  

amquelbettamin: inner ted: Girion47: inner ted: GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.

surely this late in the thread, someone will have pointed out that little episode in china that happened on the same day

but, you know, it's in china

which isn't the u.s. or israel

so it doesn't count

right?

/do agree that high capacity semi auto rifles being widely available to the public doesn't help

High Capacity = well, if a hunting rifle is limited to what... 5-7 - then i think we can reasonably assume that 30 is high capacity
Semi-auto=majority of firearms - but the majority of firearms are not semi auto rifles with magazines capable of carrying 10+ rounds - do you see the difference between the entirety of what i said vs. you just parting out bits to take it out of context?
Rifle=hard to conceal if commission of crime is your goal.no it's not

or
perhaps pics are more your thing than words

Think fast, which is more deadly?

[www.tactical-life.com image 300x115]

Or

[forum.gon.com image 300x224]


Trick question.

Same gun, different cladding
 
2012-12-19 02:03:32 PM  

inner ted: Girion47: inner ted: GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.

surely this late in the thread, someone will have pointed out that little episode in china that happened on the same day

but, you know, it's in china

which isn't the u.s. or israel

so it doesn't count

right?

/do agree that high capacity semi auto rifles being widely available to the public doesn't help

High Capacity = well, if a hunting rifle is limited to what... 5-7 - then i think we can reasonably assume that 30 is high capacity
Semi-auto=majority of firearms - but the majority of firearms are not semi auto rifles with magazines capable of carrying 10+ rounds - do you see the difference between the entirety of what i said vs. you just parting out bits to take it out of context?
Rifle=hard to conceal if commission of crime is your goal.no it's not

or
perhaps pics are more your thing than words
[assets.bizjournals.com image 280x210]


I'm sorry a picture of a hunting rifle with plastic bits on it scare you.
 
2012-12-19 02:06:29 PM  

inner ted: Girion47: inner ted: GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.

surely this late in the thread, someone will have pointed out that little episode in china that happened on the same day

but, you know, it's in china

which isn't the u.s. or israel

so it doesn't count

right?

/do agree that high capacity semi auto rifles being widely available to the public doesn't help

High Capacity = well, if a hunting rifle is limited to what... 5-7 - then i think we can reasonably assume that 30 is high capacity
Semi-auto=majority of firearms - but the majority of firearms are not semi auto rifles with magazines capable of carrying 10+ rounds - do you see the difference between the entirety of what i said vs. you just parting out bits to take it out of context?
Rifle=hard to conceal if commission of crime is your goal.no it's not

or
perhaps pics are more your thing than words
[assets.bizjournals.com image 280x210]


Here, just to help us all be educated, watch this video.

Link
 
2012-12-19 02:08:11 PM  

you have pee hands: vegasj: If SSRI meds = anti-psychotic meds... then

Excellent point and I've been trying to get this info out there...
 
It's only an excellent point in the cases where the guns weren't stolen.


Hmm?

SSRI meds cause people to do violent things. That is a fact.

Are you trying to go with "people on SSRI meds shouldn't be allowed to own guns" because I'm pretty sure the NRA people would agree with that.
 
2012-12-19 02:08:15 PM  

amquelbettamin: inner ted: Girion47: inner ted: GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.

surely this late in the thread, someone will have pointed out that little episode in china that happened on the same day

but, you know, it's in china

which isn't the u.s. or israel

so it doesn't count

right?

/do agree that high capacity semi auto rifles being widely available to the public doesn't help

High Capacity = well, if a hunting rifle is limited to what... 5-7 - then i think we can reasonably assume that 30 is high capacity
Semi-auto=majority of firearms - but the majority of firearms are not semi auto rifles with magazines capable of carrying 10+ rounds - do you see the difference between the entirety of what i said vs. you just parting out bits to take it out of context?
Rifle=hard to conceal if commission of crime is your goal.no it's not

or
perhaps pics are more your thing than words

Think fast, which has more potential to do greater damage?

[www.tactical-life.com image 300x115]

Or

[forum.gon.com image 300x224]


ftfy
 
2012-12-19 02:09:53 PM  

amquelbettamin: Single action revolver:

[worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com image 300x180]

Semi automatic handgun:

[i258.photobucket.com image 300x159]

I'd rather be shot with the second one...


I rather be shot at with the first. You better not farking miss, because you're not gonna get a follow-up shot.
 
2012-12-19 02:11:24 PM  

Girion47: inner ted: Girion47: inner ted: GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.

surely this late in the thread, someone will have pointed out that little episode in china that happened on the same day

but, you know, it's in china

which isn't the u.s. or israel

so it doesn't count

right?

/do agree that high capacity semi auto rifles being widely available to the public doesn't help

High Capacity = well, if a hunting rifle is limited to what... 5-7 - then i think we can reasonably assume that 30 is high capacity
Semi-auto=majority of firearms - but the majority of firearms are not semi auto rifles with magazines capable of carrying 10+ rounds - do you see the difference between the entirety of what i said vs. you just parting out bits to take it out of context?
Rifle=hard to conceal if commission of crime is your goal.no it's not

or
perhaps pics are more your thing than words
[assets.bizjournals.com image 280x210]

I'm sorry a picture of a hunting rifle with plastic bits on it scare you.


i'm sorry you can't understand words, but i'll try again: the only bit that gives me pause is the high capacity magazine. and that it appears to be fitted with a suppressor.

unless you are saying the hunting rifle pictured can hold 20 - 30 rounds at a time
 
2012-12-19 02:14:19 PM  

you have pee hands: vegasj: Not really. Why do you wish to look past the fact they are all medicated? Perhaps wrongly medicated even?


I may have misinterpreted your point.  If so, sorry.  A lot of people are wringing their hands and blaming spree shootings on the state of US mental health medical care or the fact that crazy people are getting access to guns, when that had nothing to do with this case at all.  The kid was clearly crazy but he came from a family well off enough to afford mental health care and he didn't buy the guns so a psychological background check for weapons purchase wouldn't have mattered either.


Agree. The left is trying to argue that there isn't enough medical accessibility, but the fact is that there is an overflowing amount available, but people ignore it or refuse to use it.
 
2012-12-19 02:14:55 PM  

Carn: I have only made some possible suggestions as to how we might try to accomplish that. Just because more children are killed in car wrecks than shootings does not mean that we should just compare them, pretend that there is no problem with school shootings, or that they are morally and socially acceptable.


Actually that is excatly what we should do if your concern is aving the lives of kids.

And I don't just mean look at raw numbers, but look at the cost to implement changes and how that woudl effect people to make those changes.

My problem with your statements is you came in making bad claims about what constitutes "acceptable" uses of firearms and then made even worse rulings on which weapons were appropriate for those uses. You seem to see it is wrong to do that with other things that "cause" death in the US, what is the problem with guns?


Carn: In this particular shooting, the attack was done with legally owned weapons. We can talk about mental health treatment as one major aspect of this problem. We can also bring up the question that if you have a mentally ill person in your home, should that effect your ability to legally own weapons?


Your proposed laws on guns (rifle, shotgun and revolver) wouldn't have changed the outcome.

Mental healthcare is a great issue that needs to be adressed, but you are kidding yourself if you think this rich lady couldn't have shopped around to get a shrink to give her kid a thumbs up, or if you fail to see any drawbacks to trying to make people who own guns prove the people in their house are mentally "stable".

A lot has been tossed about over this sicko's mental health, but had anybody seen actual signs of violonce?
 
2012-12-19 02:15:28 PM  

inner ted: Girion47: inner ted: Girion47: inner ted: GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.

surely this late in the thread, someone will have pointed out that little episode in china that happened on the same day

but, you know, it's in china

which isn't the u.s. or israel

so it doesn't count

right?

/do agree that high capacity semi auto rifles being widely available to the public doesn't help

High Capacity = well, if a hunting rifle is limited to what... 5-7 - then i think we can reasonably assume that 30 is high capacity
Semi-auto=majority of firearms - but the majority of firearms are not semi auto rifles with magazines capable of carrying 10+ rounds - do you see the difference between the entirety of what i said vs. you just parting out bits to take it out of context?
Rifle=hard to conceal if commission of crime is your goal.no it's not

or
perhaps pics are more your thing than words
[assets.bizjournals.com image 280x210]

I'm sorry a picture of a hunting rifle with plastic bits on it scare you.

i'm sorry you can't understand words, but i'll try again: the only bit that gives me pause is the high capacity magazine. and that it appears to be fitted with a suppressor.

unless you are saying the hunting rifle pictured can hold 20 - 30 rounds at a time


Because if someone were practicing their shot at the range, it'd be great if they had to reload every 5-6 shots?
 
2012-12-19 02:16:15 PM  

Carn: In this particular shooting, the attack was done with legally owned weapons. We can talk about mental health treatment as one major aspect of this problem. We can also bring up the question that if you have a mentally ill person in your home, should that effect your ability to legally own weapons?


Yes.
 
2012-12-19 02:16:30 PM  

megarian: In rare cases, one should be able to deny someone a gun base on looks alone. If this chick walked into your store and wanted a gun, wouldn't you take one look at her and think, "mmmno...no no... Just no. "

/kidding
//kind of


In all cases, anyone should be allowed to deny sale of anything to anyone.

/Yes, even the "no blacks allowed" people.
 
2012-12-19 02:19:59 PM  

GAT_00: Woo, one.  Find 5 worldwide in the last 10 years.  Mother Jones detailed 62 mass shootings in the US in just the last 30 years and half of those were in the last 10.


China actually had 3 school attacks in 3 days in April. The best one was a guy with a hammer who bashed kids heads in and then lit himself on fire with a gas can.


Worth noting that most of those mass shootings happened on Obama's watch, so there is exactly as much evidence that Obama is responsible as video games, tv, music and movies.

But if you look at the last 30 years, what you will find is that as soon as we started locking away crazy people in asylums, we suddenly saw crime increase.
 
2012-12-19 02:21:37 PM  

inner ted: Girion47: inner ted: Girion47: inner ted: GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.

surely this late in the thread, someone will have pointed out that little episode in china that happened on the same day

but, you know, it's in china

which isn't the u.s. or israel

so it doesn't count

right?

/do agree that high capacity semi auto rifles being widely available to the public doesn't help

High Capacity = well, if a hunting rifle is limited to what... 5-7 - then i think we can reasonably assume that 30 is high capacity
Semi-auto=majority of firearms - but the majority of firearms are not semi auto rifles with magazines capable of carrying 10+ rounds - do you see the difference between the entirety of what i said vs. you just parting out bits to take it out of context?
Rifle=hard to conceal if commission of crime is your goal.no it's not

or
perhaps pics are more your thing than words
[assets.bizjournals.com image 280x210]

I'm sorry a picture of a hunting rifle with plastic bits on it scare you.

i'm sorry you can't understand words, but i'll try again: the only bit that gives me pause is the high capacity magazine. and that it appears to be fitted with a suppressor.

unless you are saying the hunting rifle pictured can hold 20 - 30 rounds at a time


Of course the 30-06 semi can be used with a high-cap mag. Lots of choices for that
 
2012-12-19 02:21:55 PM  

Carn: There are three valid reasons for owning a gun: protection of person and property, hunting, and target shooting. I submit that you can satisfy all three of these with shotguns, revolvers, and bolt and lever action rifles. Everything else can be banned immediately without infringing on anyone's rights. It will take decades but eventually you won't see high capacity weapons being used for this sort of thing which will be a mild improvement. Obviously we also need to address mental health issues, and I'm including the doomsday fatalistic mindset here. If you think the world is going to end, you should undergo psychiatric evaluation before being allowed to have any weapons.


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-19 02:23:01 PM  

MythDragon: amquelbettamin: Single action revolver:

[worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com image 300x180]

Semi automatic handgun:

[i258.photobucket.com image 300x159]

I'd rather be shot with the second one...

I rather be shot at with the first. You better not farking miss, because you're not gonna get a follow-up shot.


Winning answer!!
 
2012-12-19 02:23:28 PM  

Girion47: inner ted: Girion47: inner ted: Girion47: inner ted: GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.

surely this late in the thread, someone will have pointed out that little episode in china that happened on the same day

but, you know, it's in china

which isn't the u.s. or israel

so it doesn't count

right?

/do agree that high capacity semi auto rifles being widely available to the public doesn't help

High Capacity = well, if a hunting rifle is limited to what... 5-7 - then i think we can reasonably assume that 30 is high capacity
Semi-auto=majority of firearms - but the majority of firearms are not semi auto rifles with magazines capable of carrying 10+ rounds - do you see the difference between the entirety of what i said vs. you just parting out bits to take it out of context?
Rifle=hard to conceal if commission of crime is your goal.no it's not

or
perhaps pics are more your thing than words
[assets.bizjournals.com image 280x210]

I'm sorry a picture of a hunting rifle with plastic bits on it scare you.

i'm sorry you can't understand words, but i'll try again: the only bit that gives me pause is the high capacity magazine. and that it appears to be fitted with a suppressor.

unless you are saying the hunting rifle pictured can hold 20 - 30 rounds at a time

Because if someone were practicing their shot at the range, it'd be great if they had to reload every 5-6 shots?


oh... i'm sorry that your hobby may require you to reload more often. the horror. surely you are being treated unfairly and obama wants all your guns.

i'd say that's about as minor an argument against regulating high capacity magazines for semi auto rifles that i've ever heard or read.

well done?
 
2012-12-19 02:28:56 PM  

amquelbettamin: inner ted: Girion47: inner ted: Girion47: inner ted: GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.

surely this late in the thread, someone will have pointed out that little episode in china that happened on the same day

but, you know, it's in china

which isn't the u.s. or israel

so it doesn't count

right?

/do agree that high capacity semi auto rifles being widely available to the public doesn't help

High Capacity = well, if a hunting rifle is limited to what... 5-7 - then i think we can reasonably assume that 30 is high capacity
Semi-auto=majority of firearms - but the majority of firearms are not semi auto rifles with magazines capable of carrying 10+ rounds - do you see the difference between the entirety of what i said vs. you just parting out bits to take it out of context?
Rifle=hard to conceal if commission of crime is your goal.no it's not

or
perhaps pics are more your thing than words
[assets.bizjournals.com image 280x210]

I'm sorry a picture of a hunting rifle with plastic bits on it scare you.

i'm sorry you can't understand words, but i'll try again: the only bit that gives me pause is the high capacity magazine. and that it appears to be fitted with a suppressor.

unless you are saying the hunting rifle pictured can hold 20 - 30 rounds at a time

Of course the 30-06 semi can be used with a high-cap mag. Lots of choices for that


then it would be the same as the "scary rifle with plastic bits" & worthy of being highly regulated or banned outright
 
2012-12-19 02:29:19 PM  
If all the kids had guns, the mother would not have tried it.
Perhaps thought "If I go waving a gun at someone, someone else is going to take me down".

Face it people. Most of it really comes down to the children you raise, and some people ought not to have kids. The rest of it is just being insane.
If there were no guns, it would be something else the nuts get their hands on that normal folks wouldn't consider to do.

People are crazy.... caused by the chemtrails. (Insert sound bite of Vincent Price laughing.)
 
2012-12-19 02:29:24 PM  

WhippingBoy: Dear America,

Once everyone in your country has killed each other, can I have Disneyland?

Sincerely,

WhippingBoy


It would you take some time to clean up the carnage.
 
2012-12-19 02:30:06 PM  

inner ted: amquelbettamin: inner ted: Girion47: inner ted: Girion47: inner ted: GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.

surely this late in the thread, someone will have pointed out that little episode in china that happened on the same day

but, you know, it's in china

which isn't the u.s. or israel

so it doesn't count

right?

/do agree that high capacity semi auto rifles being widely available to the public doesn't help

High Capacity = well, if a hunting rifle is limited to what... 5-7 - then i think we can reasonably assume that 30 is high capacity
Semi-auto=majority of firearms - but the majority of firearms are not semi auto rifles with magazines capable of carrying 10+ rounds - do you see the difference between the entirety of what i said vs. you just parting out bits to take it out of context?
Rifle=hard to conceal if commission of crime is your goal.no it's not

or
perhaps pics are more your thing than words
[assets.bizjournals.com image 280x210]

I'm sorry a picture of a hunting rifle with plastic bits on it scare you.

i'm sorry you can't understand words, but i'll try again: the only bit that gives me pause is the high capacity magazine. and that it appears to be fitted with a suppressor.

unless you are saying the hunting rifle pictured can hold 20 - 30 rounds at a time

Of course the 30-06 semi can be used with a high-cap mag. Lots of choices for that

then it would be the same as the "scary rifle with plastic bits" & worthy of being highly regul ...


So you're fine with banning scary looking. Did you even watch that video I posted?
 
2012-12-19 02:32:57 PM  

amquelbettamin: Think fast, which is more deadly?


Well, just from a brief glance at the magazine on that 'assualt style' weapon, I can tell it fires .22lr, which is *about* one of the least powerful and most common rounds on the market. A closer look at the ejection port confirms it.

The 2nd one is a little harder, but I am gonna guess it is chambered in 7.62x51 (or .308), which can bring down a goddamn water buffalo and punch clean through 1/4 inch steel plate. So I'd the the 2nd one, while less scary, is more deadly.

But then I've educated myself on firearms, so that I can know what I am talking about when the subject comes up.
 
2012-12-19 02:36:33 PM  

cryinoutloud: But I also notice that people like you have already come up with "anti-gun" to describe people who'd like some better rules for how and who owns guns


The amusing part is that all the things the anti-gun people suggest regarding gun ownership are already in place. People who have committed crimes or are crazy are not allowed to buy, own, carry or possess guns.

The shooter in this case owned zero guns. He killed a gun owner and took her guns.

The real issue is that the kid's parents refused to have their kid declared crazy, despite knowing he was crazy. The secondary issue is that we don't execute crazy people like we should.
 
2012-12-19 02:43:23 PM  

MythDragon: amquelbettamin: Think fast, which is more deadly?

Well, just from a brief glance at the magazine on that 'assualt style' weapon, I can tell it fires .22lr, which is *about* one of the least powerful and most common rounds on the market. A closer look at the ejection port confirms it.

The 2nd one is a little harder, but I am gonna guess it is chambered in 7.62x51 (or .308), which can bring down a goddamn water buffalo and punch clean through 1/4 inch steel plate. So I'd the the 2nd one, while less scary, is more deadly.

But then I've educated myself on firearms, so that I can know what I am talking about when the subject comes up.


Spot on for the top one.

Very close for bottom, it's a .30-06 Remington
http://forum.gon.com/showthread.php?t=498534
 
2012-12-19 02:43:55 PM  

letrole: Bullies serve a real purpose as nature's way of correcting abberant behaviour. Anti-Bullying measures are counter-productive. Without a bully to make him conform, a misfit continues to wallow in his own misery. With a bully, the misfit is given hard and firm lessons about fitting into society.


WE GET IT YOU'RE A GIMMICK ACCOUNT
 
2012-12-19 02:51:37 PM  

MythDragon: Carn: There are three valid reasons for owning a gun: protection of person and property, hunting, and target shooting. I submit that you can satisfy all three of these with shotguns, revolvers, and bolt and lever action rifles. Everything else can be banned immediately without infringing on anyone's rights. It will take decades but eventually you won't see high capacity weapons being used for this sort of thing which will be a mild improvement. Obviously we also need to address mental health issues, and I'm including the doomsday fatalistic mindset here. If you think the world is going to end, you should undergo psychiatric evaluation before being allowed to have any weapons.

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 500x333]


During the 18th century, dueling was popular. It's now illegal. Your claim, despite or perhaps in addition to being completely non-verifiable (do you have any actual numbers showing people being for or against 20 shot revolvers), is moot.
 
2012-12-19 02:52:06 PM  

Bullseyed: I also fail to see why killing kindergartners is so heinous but murdering babies is just fine.



Haha, that's awesome.
 
2012-12-19 02:56:22 PM  
Clearly the woman is a fine American - at least by NRA standards.
 
2012-12-19 02:57:51 PM  

Bilgewater: Clearly the woman is a fine American - at least by NRA standards.


I live with my mom
 
2012-12-19 03:03:35 PM  

Begoggle: I thought an armed society was a polite society?
This doesn't seem very polite.


Would you tease this kid if you knew her mom was crazy enough to point a gun at you?

Me neither. See, we're getting politer by the minute!
 
2012-12-19 03:04:27 PM  

bowtiesheep: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: bowtiesheep: bigbadideasinaction:
 
For decades, the NRA fought to make sure anyone, anywhere could get an untraceable gun.
 
Now they argue that you can't ban guns because anyone, anywhere could have an untraceable gun.
 
They've encouraged more fear and death in America than Al-Qaeda.
 
 
Pour vous
 
Linking to a Progressive website to support a Liberal accusation? 
Shocking!

What a constructive comment. May I sit and bask in your magnificence or would you like to spin the wheel and play again?

/It's all just food for thought. Appetizers. No one's interested in your gourmet sh*t sandwich, buddy



I'm not your buddy, pal
 
2012-12-19 03:05:07 PM  
Crotchrocket Slim: WE GET IT YOU'RE A GIMMICK ACCOUNT


Is that the royal "we", the forum "we", or the more than one dude rattling around inside your skull "we"?
 
2012-12-19 03:12:17 PM  

Girion47: inner ted: amquelbettamin: inner ted: Girion47: inner ted: Girion47: inner ted: GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.

surely this late in the thread, someone will have pointed out that little episode in china that happened on the same day

but, you know, it's in china

which isn't the u.s. or israel

so it doesn't count

right?

/do agree that high capacity semi auto rifles being widely available to the public doesn't help

High Capacity = well, if a hunting rifle is limited to what... 5-7 - then i think we can reasonably assume that 30 is high capacity
Semi-auto=majority of firearms - but the majority of firearms are not semi auto rifles with magazines capable of carrying 10+ rounds - do you see the difference between the entirety of what i said vs. you just parting out bits to take it out of context?
Rifle=hard to conceal if commission of crime is your goal.no it's not

or
perhaps pics are more your thing than words
[assets.bizjournals.com image 280x210]

I'm sorry a picture of a hunting rifle with plastic bits on it scare you.

i'm sorry you can't understand words, but i'll try again: the only bit that gives me pause is the high capacity magazine. and that it appears to be fitted with a suppressor.

unless you are saying the hunting rifle pictured can hold 20 - 30 rounds at a time

Of course the 30-06 semi can be used with a high-cap mag. Lots of choices for that

then it would be the same as the "scary rifle with plastic bits" & worthy of being h ...


jeebus
if you aren't even going to read the words i write, why would i go the next step and not only read your weak argument, but take the time to watch a video?

it's no wonder we as a nation don't get very far - if you can't understand words NOR pics - but i must endeavor to make it clearer:

furthermore: you are either trolling or not being genuine as you continue to avoid my questions and instead respond with childish remarks - but so we are all clear:

i believe that having high capacity magazines (10+rounds or more) in semi auto rifles available to the masses makes it far easier to cause massive destruction

is that clear enough for you?
 
2012-12-19 03:14:53 PM  

MythDragon: amquelbettamin: Think fast, which is more deadly?

Well, just from a brief glance at the magazine on that 'assualt style' weapon, I can tell it fires .22lr, which is *about* one of the least powerful and most common rounds on the market. A closer look at the ejection port confirms it.

The 2nd one is a little harder, but I am gonna guess it is chambered in 7.62x51 (or .308), which can bring down a goddamn water buffalo and punch clean through 1/4 inch steel plate. So I'd the the 2nd one, while less scary, is more deadly.

But then I've educated myself on firearms, so that I can know what I am talking about when the subject comes up.


if you are as educated about firearms as you would like us to believe, than you would acknowledge that even with a small caliber, enough of them can do plenty of damage to people.

nobody is hunting 1/4" steel plate.
 
2012-12-19 03:20:03 PM  

Bullseyed: SSRI meds cause people to do violent things. That is a fact.

 
 
Some people taking SSRI meds may already (not in all cases) have a tendency toward suicidal behavior. 
It varies from case to case. SSRIs are prescribed for many different symptoms, from mild anxiety, to clinical depression.
In other words, not all people taking SSRIs should be classified as violent, or potentially violent. Some younger users of SSRIs have had adverse reactions, so they should be monitored for abnormal behavior.
 
2012-12-19 03:26:13 PM  

Girion47: Here, just to help us all be educated, watch this video.

Link


That's a very good video. I wish everyone would watch it so we could all be using the same terms and everyone would maybe understand what the firearms being talked about actually are.
 
2012-12-19 03:40:26 PM  

Rapmaster2000: This wouldn't have happened with a bolt-action handgun.


They actually make those. It's more of a novelty as they only hold one round and they fire .17 round IIRC.
 
2012-12-19 03:42:55 PM  

inner ted: MythDragon: amquelbettamin: Think fast, which is more deadly?

Well, just from a brief glance at the magazine on that 'assualt style' weapon, I can tell it fires .22lr, which is *about* one of the least powerful and most common rounds on the market. A closer look at the ejection port confirms it.

The 2nd one is a little harder, but I am gonna guess it is chambered in 7.62x51 (or .308), which can bring down a goddamn water buffalo and punch clean through 1/4 inch steel plate. So I'd the the 2nd one, while less scary, is more deadly.

But then I've educated myself on firearms, so that I can know what I am talking about when the subject comes up.

if you are as educated about firearms as you would like us to believe, than you would acknowledge that even with a small caliber, enough of them can do plenty of damage to people.


Well....yes. That is the very purpose for which they are designed. These things don't fire flower petals here. Doesn't mean that you can't use them for not people-killing activities like target and sport shooting, or just collecting. Hell, unlike knives (which are tools that can be used as a weapon) a sword has only one function. To kill people. Of course you can still purchase one if you happen to like collecting swords or slicing watermelons in the coolest way possible.

nobody is hunting 1/4" steel plate.

No, it's usualy what's behind the plate that they are hunting.
When we went into Iraq we had no armor at all for our vehicles. We managed to find a couple of pieces of proper door armor (not that it would do much good when the enemy could shoot through the front glass or rear canvas). For the rest of our vehicles we spent a good amount of time and effort welding 1/8" plate steel where ever we could get it to stick. So we convoy up through Iraq. Not long after I got there, I ran into a couple of Rangers who ask "wanna see something cool?" And when a Army Ranger wants to show you something he thinks is cool, you damn well go see. (But you wear body armor and hide behind a tree until you figure out what the hell is gonna show you). Turns out they 'aquired' some AKMs (A newer AK-47 for you non gun types) and got curious about how well the 1/8" junk-armor would work. He points to some dents in the side of his HMMWV and says "That's were we shot it with an M-4". Then he points to a bunch of holes and says "And that's where we shot it with an AK" I look at the truck and say "Um....there are holes on the other side too." "Yep." He says " Punched clean through both sides. Cool, huh?"
 
2012-12-19 03:50:19 PM  

Fail in Human Form: Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.

Without the NRA the 2nd amendment would have been hollowed out a long time ago. Your friends sound like FUDDs.


God forbid anyone take away your right to carry a killing machine.
dreamcatchersforabusedchildren.com
 
2012-12-19 03:54:11 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: bowtiesheep: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: bowtiesheep: bigbadideasinaction:
 
For decades, the NRA fought to make sure anyone, anywhere could get an untraceable gun.
 
Now they argue that you can't ban guns because anyone, anywhere could have an untraceable gun.
 
They've encouraged more fear and death in America than Al-Qaeda.
 
 
Pour vous
 
Linking to a Progressive website to support a Liberal accusation? 
Shocking!

What a constructive comment. May I sit and bask in your magnificence or would you like to spin the wheel and play again?

/It's all just food for thought. Appetizers. No one's interested in your gourmet sh*t sandwich, buddy


I'm not your buddy, pal


I ain't your pal, guy
 
2012-12-19 03:54:46 PM  

kg2095: Fail in Human Form: Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.

 
Without the NRA the 2nd amendment would have been hollowed out a long time ago. Your friends sound like FUDDs.
 
God forbid anyone take away your right to carry a killing machine.
[dreamcatchersforabusedchildren.com image 612x612]

 
 
The killing machine was the person holding the weapon.
 
I understand people wanting to place the blame on an inanimate object. For most of us, it's hard to grasp the idea that a human can be capable of killing children. But at the end of the day, it was a very sick and twisted person that killed all those children.
 
2012-12-19 03:56:55 PM  

letrole: Crotchrocket Slim: WE GET IT YOU'RE A GIMMICK ACCOUNT


Is that the royal "we", the forum "we", or the more than one dude rattling around inside your skull "we"?


Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial "we."~ Mark Twain
 
2012-12-19 03:57:13 PM  

kg2095: Fail in Human Form: Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.

Without the NRA the 2nd amendment would have been hollowed out a long time ago. Your friends sound like FUDDs.

God forbid anyone take away your right to carry a killing machine.
[dreamcatchersforabusedchildren.com image 612x612]


Your shiatty MSPaint collage doesn't help the argument one way or the other.
 
2012-12-19 04:01:02 PM  

MythDragon: inner ted: MythDragon: amquelbettamin: Think fast, which is more deadly?

Well, just from a brief glance at the magazine on that 'assualt style' weapon, I can tell it fires .22lr, which is *about* one of the least powerful and most common rounds on the market. A closer look at the ejection port confirms it.

The 2nd one is a little harder, but I am gonna guess it is chambered in 7.62x51 (or .308), which can bring down a goddamn water buffalo and punch clean through 1/4 inch steel plate. So I'd the the 2nd one, while less scary, is more deadly.

But then I've educated myself on firearms, so that I can know what I am talking about when the subject comes up.

if you are as educated about firearms as you would like us to believe, than you would acknowledge that even with a small caliber, enough of them can do plenty of damage to people.

Well....yes. That is the very purpose for which they are designed. These things don't fire flower petals here. Doesn't mean that you can't use them for not people-killing activities like target and sport shooting, or just collecting. Hell, unlike knives (which are tools that can be used as a weapon) a sword has only one function. To kill people. Of course you can still purchase one if you happen to like collecting swords or slicing watermelons in the coolest way possible.

nobody is hunting 1/4" steel plate.

No, it's usualy what's behind the plate that they are hunting.
When we went into Iraq we had no armor at all for our vehicles. We managed to find a couple of pieces of proper door armor (not that it would do much good when the enemy could shoot through the front glass or rear canvas). For the rest of our vehicles we spent a good amount of time and effort welding 1/8" plate steel where ever we could get it to stick. So we convoy up through Iraq. Not long after I got there, I ran into a couple of Rangers who ask "wanna see something cool?" And when a Army Ranger wants to show you something he thinks is cool, you damn well go see. (B ...


as awesome as your story sounds, sorry, i didn't read it all

why?

cause you are making my case - certain aspects of firearms are only for war fighting / hunting people & don't have a reason among the general public.
 
2012-12-19 04:05:24 PM  
Well so much for the AR - 15. It's like farking locusts descended on the gun stores. Every round of .223, every magazine, every rifle.... gone. Talked with the owner and he said he's not sure when he's new orders will be filled but he guarantees the price will be higher.

/We got to BSing and he said he was selling skids of .223 the same day they arrived
//Farking *facepalm*
 
2012-12-19 04:21:40 PM  

inner ted: MythDragon: inner ted: MythDragon: amquelbettamin: Think fast, which is more deadly?

Well, just from a brief glance at the magazine on that 'assualt style' weapon, I can tell it fires .22lr, which is *about* one of the least powerful and most common rounds on the market. A closer look at the ejection port confirms it.

The 2nd one is a little harder, but I am gonna guess it is chambered in 7.62x51 (or .308), which can bring down a goddamn water buffalo and punch clean through 1/4 inch steel plate. So I'd the the 2nd one, while less scary, is more deadly.

But then I've educated myself on firearms, so that I can know what I am talking about when the subject comes up.

if you are as educated about firearms as you would like us to believe, than you would acknowledge that even with a small caliber, enough of them can do plenty of damage to people.

Well....yes. That is the very purpose for which they are designed. These things don't fire flower petals here. Doesn't mean that you can't use them for not people-killing activities like target and sport shooting, or just collecting. Hell, unlike knives (which are tools that can be used as a weapon) a sword has only one function. To kill people. Of course you can still purchase one if you happen to like collecting swords or slicing watermelons in the coolest way possible.

nobody is hunting 1/4" steel plate.

No, it's usualy what's behind the plate that they are hunting.
When we went into Iraq we had no armor at all for our vehicles. We managed to find a couple of pieces of proper door armor (not that it would do much good when the enemy could shoot through the front glass or rear canvas). For the rest of our vehicles we spent a good amount of time and effort welding 1/8" plate steel where ever we could get it to stick. So we convoy up through Iraq. Not long after I got there, I ran into a couple of Rangers who ask "wanna see something cool?" And when a Army Ranger wants to show you something he thinks is cool, you damn wel ...


And the gun's he was describing? Yeah not legal here in the U.S.
 
2012-12-19 04:32:35 PM  

inner ted: cause you are making my case - certain aspects of firearms are only for war fighting / hunting people & don't have a reason among the general public.


And guess what...we don't have them. It takes some SERIOUS paperwork/background check/expenses to own a M-16 or an AK-74.
Now a single fire only weapon that LOOKS like a M-16 or AK varient is NOT the same thing as what it looks like. You can slap a Ferrari body kit on a Corolla, and while it now looks dangerous, it doesn't go any faster.
 
2012-12-19 04:36:52 PM  

MythDragon:  You can slap a Ferrari body kit on a Corolla, and while it now looks dangerous, it doesn't go any faster.

 
 
How about if you add a fart can?
 
2012-12-19 04:41:56 PM  

MythDragon: inner ted: cause you are making my case - certain aspects of firearms are only for war fighting / hunting people & don't have a reason among the general public.

And guess what...we don't have them. It takes some SERIOUS paperwork/background check/expenses to own a M-16 or an AK-74.
Now a single fire only weapon that LOOKS like a M-16 or AK varient is NOT the same thing as what it looks like. You can slap a Ferrari body kit on a Corolla, and while it now looks dangerous, it doesn't go any faster.


i realize this
but the point remains the same: certain aspects of firearms are reserved only for military / cops

currently it is limited as you point out

i suggest including high capacity mags to this

or, in car terms: you can take a corolla and add nitrous & indeed it goes faster
 
2012-12-19 04:45:13 PM  

Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?

Three.

Cute. How many deaths? How about this, you pick your four best school stabbings in the last 13 years and we'll compare that with the four US school shootings with the most victims and compare shall we?

VA Tech 2007 - 32 dead, 17 injured
Newtown 2012 - 27 dead (and his mother)
Columbine 1999 - 13 dead, 21 injured
Red Lake 2004 - 7 dead, 5 injured (also killed 2 others before the school)

Total: 79 dead, 43 injured. An average of 20 dead and 10 injured per incident over four shootings.


19 dead, 43 wounded, from March-May 2010 in China.

But if I'm going for straight body count, I'm using either explosives or the Russian army. Although the Pakistani army can rack up a body count, too.

Bombings: 87 dead, 241 wounded (last decade, schools only)
Russian army: 386 killed, 700+ wounded
 
2012-12-19 05:14:09 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: I understand people wanting to place the blame on an inanimate object. For most of us, it's hard to grasp the idea that a human can be capable of killing children. But at the end of the day, it was a very sick and twisted person that killed all those children.


If the only thing available to him was, say, a spoon, do you think he would have been able to kill as many people?
 
2012-12-19 05:28:12 PM  

WhippingBoy: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: I understand people wanting to place the blame on an inanimate object. For most of us, it's hard to grasp the idea that a human can be capable of killing children. But at the end of the day, it was a very sick and twisted person that killed all those children.

If the only thing available to him was, say, a spoon, do you think he would have been able to kill as many people?


we should ban spoons

then everyone will be safe
 
2012-12-19 05:38:16 PM  

inner ted: MythDragon: inner ted: cause you are making my case - certain aspects of firearms are only for war fighting / hunting people & don't have a reason among the general public.

And guess what...we don't have them. It takes some SERIOUS paperwork/background check/expenses to own a M-16 or an AK-74.
Now a single fire only weapon that LOOKS like a M-16 or AK varient is NOT the same thing as what it looks like. You can slap a Ferrari body kit on a Corolla, and while it now looks dangerous, it doesn't go any faster.

i realize this
but the point remains the same: certain aspects of firearms are reserved only for military / cops

currently it is limited as you point out

i suggest including high capacity mags to this

or, in car terms: you can take a corolla and add nitrous & indeed it goes faster


False analogy. The correct analogy is that you can put a bigger gas tank on a Corolla so it can drive farther.

And expanded mag doesn't make a gun more powerful. If I had a 2000 bullet mag for a 0.22, it won't shoot through steel plates.
 
2012-12-19 05:39:49 PM  

I drunk what: WhippingBoy: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: I understand people wanting to place the blame on an inanimate object. For most of us, it's hard to grasp the idea that a human can be capable of killing children. But at the end of the day, it was a very sick and twisted person that killed all those children.

If the only thing available to him was, say, a spoon, do you think he would have been able to kill as many people?

we should ban spoons

then everyone will be safe


Available to him is not the same as is legal to own. Guns are available whether they are legal or not.
 
2012-12-19 06:02:59 PM  
 
2012-12-19 06:04:19 PM  

Bullseyed: inner ted: MythDragon: inner ted: cause you are making my case - certain aspects of firearms are only for war fighting / hunting people & don't have a reason among the general public.

And guess what...we don't have them. It takes some SERIOUS paperwork/background check/expenses to own a M-16 or an AK-74.
Now a single fire only weapon that LOOKS like a M-16 or AK varient is NOT the same thing as what it looks like. You can slap a Ferrari body kit on a Corolla, and while it now looks dangerous, it doesn't go any faster.

i realize this
but the point remains the same: certain aspects of firearms are reserved only for military / cops

currently it is limited as you point out

i suggest including high capacity mags to this

or, in car terms: you can take a corolla and add nitrous & indeed it goes faster

False analogy. The correct analogy is that you can put a bigger gas tank on a Corolla so it can drive farther.

And expanded mag doesn't make a gun more powerful. If I had a 2000 bullet mag for a 0.22, it won't shoot through steel plates.


i think my analogy is just fine - but if it really hangs you up - fine.. a big gas tank

as to expanded mag =/= more powerful.... no shiat

what you & many others are refusing to acknowledge is that having increased mag capacity increases one's ability to easily wreak havoc.

if you can respond to JUST THIS, i'll be very interested in your take

if all you have is "o you are scared of mean looking guns" then my interest falls considerably
 
2012-12-19 07:35:16 PM  
Mass murder can be done with rocks and a little effort.
So then we must outlaw rocks.

"I was arrested for conspiracy to commit murder because I had a rock in my hand."
Yep, that would about do it.
 
2012-12-19 09:17:23 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: kg2095: Fail in Human Form: Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.

Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.

I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop.

Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.

Without the NRA the 2nd amendment would have been hollowed out a long time ago. Your friends sound like FUDDs.

God forbid anyone take away your right to carry a killing machine.
[dreamcatchersforabusedchildren.com image 612x612]


The killing machine was the person holding the weapon.

I understand people wanting to place the blame on an inanimate object. For most of us, it's hard to grasp the idea that a human can be capable of killing children. But at the end of the day, it was a very sick and twisted person that killed all those children.


Yes it was a very sick twisted person. But the gun enabled him to kill more people than he otherwise would have,

A gun is a machine, and its purpose is to kill - it is a killing machine.
 
2012-12-19 09:18:04 PM  

Girion47: kg2095: Fail in Human Form: Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.

Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.

I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop.

Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.

Without the NRA the 2nd amendment would have been hollowed out a long time ago. Your friends sound like FUDDs.

God forbid anyone take away your right to carry a killing machine.
[dreamcatchersforabusedchildren.com image 612x612]

Your shiatty MSPaint collage doesn't help the argument one way or the other.


Neither does your ill mannered comment.
 
2012-12-19 09:55:32 PM  

hinten: Watch all the gun nuts hone in on "semi-automatic" vs actually engaging in a constructive discussion and solution. And, yes, this situation does require a solution.


And the solution is arrest, trial and incarceration!
 
2012-12-19 10:34:55 PM  

kg2095: A gun is a machine, and its purpose is to kill - it is a killing machine.


So a machine gun is a machine of a machine that's purposed to kill?

/Confused
 
2012-12-19 11:06:09 PM  
Ban bullying.

Stop instigating these crackpots.
 
2012-12-19 11:34:47 PM  

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: kg2095: Fail in Human Form: Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.

Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.

I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop.

Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.

Without the NRA the 2nd amendment would have been hollowed out a long time ago. Your friends sound like FUDDs.

God forbid anyone take away your right to carry a killing machine.
[dreamcatchersforabusedchildren.com image 612x612]


The killing machine was the person holding the weapon.

I understand people wanting to place the blame on an inanimate object. For most of us, it's hard to grasp the idea that a human can be capable of killing children. But at the end of the day, it was a very sick and twisted person that killed all those children.


fark that. Sick implies you will get better.
 
2012-12-20 03:19:33 AM  
Why do these articles and the news always say SEMI-AUTOMATIC handguns? Just about all these guns now a days are semi-automatic.

An adjective for a handgun should only be used if someone was attacked with a black powder handgun. That would be adjective worthy.
 
2012-12-20 08:18:35 AM  

StoPPeRmobile: Ban bullying.


inadequate, ban anything that might cause our precious snowflakes to get their feelings hurt

ban reality

and since most of these parents are proving they are unfit to be guardians to anyone, ban reproduction
 
2012-12-20 09:47:02 AM  

inner ted: i think my analogy is just fine - but if it really hangs you up - fine.. a big gas tank

as to expanded mag =/= more powerful.... no shiat

what you & many others are refusing to acknowledge is that having increased mag capacity increases one's ability to easily wreak havoc.

if you can respond to JUST THIS, i'll be very interested in your take

if all you have is "o you are scared of mean looking guns" then my interest falls considerably


Yeah, it is marginally easier to have 35 bullets instead of 20. It takes what, 5 seconds tops to change a mag? So it would stop maybe 1 shot over the course of a rampage.

Unless you think the kindergartners were going to use that 5 second window to attack the shooter, it wouldn't have made any difference.
 
2012-12-20 10:15:27 AM  

Bullseyed: inner ted: i think my analogy is just fine - but if it really hangs you up - fine.. a big gas tank

as to expanded mag =/= more powerful.... no shiat

what you & many others are refusing to acknowledge is that having increased mag capacity increases one's ability to easily wreak havoc.

if you can respond to JUST THIS, i'll be very interested in your take

if all you have is "o you are scared of mean looking guns" then my interest falls considerably

Yeah, it is marginally easier to have 35 bullets instead of 20. It takes what, 5 seconds tops to change a mag? So it would stop maybe 1 shot over the course of a rampage.

Unless you think the kindergartners were going to use that 5 second window to attack the shooter, it wouldn't have made any difference.


ahhh - so you agree, we should limit mag capacity at no more than 10 - maybe even 5?

good to hear
 
2012-12-20 12:09:52 PM  

baronvonzipper: "Brandishing" is a crime no matter if it's a gun, knife, sword, or any other weapon.


Penis?
 
2012-12-20 01:30:55 PM  

Incog_Neeto: baronvonzipper: "Brandishing" is a crime no matter if it's a gun, knife, sword, or any other weapon.

Penis?


This is my weapon, this is my gun. One is for shooting, one is for fun.
 
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  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

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