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(Denver Post)   News: Woman confronts her daughter's bullies at their school. Fark: With a semi-automatic handgun   (denverpost.com) divider line 243
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8291 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Dec 2012 at 11:13 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-19 12:05:52 PM
Another Knife attack (8 dead, many more injured)

Link
 
2012-12-19 12:08:05 PM

Carn: Fail in Human Form: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?

Three.

Cute. How many deaths? How about this, you pick your four best school stabbings in the last 13 years and we'll compare that with the four US school shootings with the most victims and compare shall we?

VA Tech 2007 - 32 dead, 17 injured
Newtown 2012 - 27 dead (and his mother)
Columbine 1999 - 13 dead, 21 injured
Red Lake 2004 - 7 dead, 5 injured (also killed 2 others before the school)

Total: 79 dead, 43 injured. An average of 20 dead and 10 injured per incident over four shootings.

It's obviously not the body count that bothers you. Many more people die of a multitude of preventable things every year, so what is it about firearms that pushes your panic button?

Nice strawman. It should actually be obvious that the body count IS what bothers me. Oh and maybe the fact that we're talking about little kids. Who says I'm not in favor of preventing whatever other preventable deaths you are imagining?


Then why single out firearms ownership, a constitutionally protected right? How about we ban all fast food and you fight as hard for that as you're fighting against guns rights? It would save far many more lives every year.
 
2012-12-19 12:08:31 PM

Carn: Nice strawman. It should actually be obvious that the body count IS what bothers me.


BS.

If body count was the issue you would be looking at things that kill far more people.
 
2012-12-19 12:08:40 PM

Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?

Three.

Cute. How many deaths? How about this, you pick your four best school stabbings in the last 13 years and we'll compare that with the four US school shootings with the most victims and compare shall we?

VA Tech 2007 - 32 dead, 17 injured
Newtown 2012 - 27 dead (and his mother)
Columbine 1999 - 13 dead, 21 injured
Red Lake 2004 - 7 dead, 5 injured (also killed 2 others before the school)

Total: 79 dead, 43 injured. An average of 20 dead and 10 injured per incident over four shootings.


I'd be curious to know how many (if any at all) of these sprees involved the shooter being on any kind of SSRI meds...
 
2012-12-19 12:08:54 PM
and the media's attack on guns continues...
 
2012-12-19 12:11:48 PM

liam76: Carn: There are three valid reasons for owning a gun: protection of person and property, hunting, and target shooting. I submit that you can satisfy all three of these with shotguns, revolvers, and bolt and lever action rifles. Everything else can be banned immediately without infringing on anyone's rights. It will take decades but eventually you won't see high capacity weapons being used for this sort of thing which will be a mild improvement. Obviously we also need to address mental health issues, and I'm including the doomsday fatalistic mindset here. If you think the world is going to end, you should undergo psychiatric evaluation before being allowed to have any weapons

What are the valid reasons for having a vehicles? Or a pool? Or alcohol?

Can you satisfy them while banning types of vehicles, pools, and alcohol that people enjoy?

I have no particular attatchment to 'assault weapons' and don't even have a firearm at my house (shotgun at my parents), I have no moral opposition a ban on 'assault weapons' but I am sick of all these half assed arguments that pretend to be about safety.

You can't arbitrarily pick guns make up poorly thought out categories for what is acceptable to suit your approved uses and pretend you are doing it for "safety".


Excellent points. We have laws that determine what types of vehicles can be on the road and what safety measures they must include to be road worthy. We also require insurance for drivers, licenses and recurring testing. We have laws that say an unfenced below ground pool is a public nuisance and if a kid makes his way into your pool and drowns himself, you are liable. We have laws on what kind of alcoholic beverages are allowed for sale, who can make them, and they must also pass through many safety regulations set by FDA and other organizations.
 
2012-12-19 12:12:33 PM
Where is the hero tag.

Its bullying that causes mass school shootings in the first place. This woman finally did something to stand up to them.
 
2012-12-19 12:13:01 PM

Carn: Nice strawman. It should actually be obvious that the body count IS what bothers me. Oh and maybe the fact that we're talking about little kids. Who says I'm not in favor of preventing whatever other preventable deaths you are imagining?


Then we should ban airplanes because there are more mass deaths caused by air travel crashes than are caused by guns. While we're at it we should ban busses with a capacity of more than 10 seats since if you drive a full 60 passenger bus off a cliff and kill them that would ba a lot of people killed in one incident as well.
 
2012-12-19 12:14:41 PM

liam76: Carn: Nice strawman. It should actually be obvious that the body count IS what bothers me.

BS.

If body count was the issue you would be looking at things that kill far more people.

liam76: Carn: Nice strawman. It should actually be obvious that the body count IS what bothers me.

BS.

If body count was the issue you would be looking at things that kill far more people.


What's the usual death rate among first graders? During school hours?
 
2012-12-19 12:14:54 PM

GanjSmokr: I'd be curious to know how many (if any at all) of these sprees involved the shooter being on any kind of SSRI meds...



. . . or wearing black clothes.
 
2012-12-19 12:15:32 PM

GanjSmokr: I'd be curious to know how many (if any at all) of these sprees involved the shooter being on any kind of SSRI meds...


If SSRI meds = anti-psychotic meds... then

Excellent point and I've been trying to get this info out there...

VA Tech = yes
Newtown = Yes
Columbine = yes
Red Lake = Yes

 
2012-12-19 12:16:47 PM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: The first question on the background check should be "Are you going to use this gun to show everyone what a badass you are by pulling it out to try and intimidate someone who cut you off in traffic, took the last tater tots in the lunchroom and/or enjoyed an episode of 'Hillybilly Handfishing' you thought was trite and derivative?"


Wait, is this the thread about the increase in sales of hillbilly porn?
 
2012-12-19 12:17:45 PM

Mr. Eugenides: Carn: Nice strawman. It should actually be obvious that the body count IS what bothers me. Oh and maybe the fact that we're talking about little kids. Who says I'm not in favor of preventing whatever other preventable deaths you are imagining?

Then we should ban airplanes because there are more mass deaths caused by air travel crashes than are caused by guns. While we're at it we should ban busses with a capacity of more than 10 seats since if you drive a full 60 passenger bus off a cliff and kill them that would ba a lot of people killed in one incident as well.


How many more airplane deaths would there be if we didn't regulate the shiat out of the industry?
 
2012-12-19 12:20:03 PM

WhippingBoy: Dear America,

Once everyone in your country has killed each other, can I have Disneyland?

Sincerely,

WhippingBoy


Dear WhippingBoy,

Your name is appropriate as your country is OUR WhippingBoy! Figures that you'd covet Disneyland, given the cesspool of shiat you live in. Impotency much?
 
2012-12-19 12:20:59 PM

vegasj: If SSRI meds = anti-psychotic meds... then

Excellent point and I've been trying to get this info out there...

 
It's only an excellent point in the cases where the guns weren't stolen.
 
2012-12-19 12:20:59 PM

Carn: Mr. Eugenides: Carn: Nice strawman. It should actually be obvious that the body count IS what bothers me. Oh and maybe the fact that we're talking about little kids. Who says I'm not in favor of preventing whatever other preventable deaths you are imagining?

Then we should ban airplanes because there are more mass deaths caused by air travel crashes than are caused by guns. While we're at it we should ban busses with a capacity of more than 10 seats since if you drive a full 60 passenger bus off a cliff and kill them that would ba a lot of people killed in one incident as well.

How many more airplane deaths would there be if we didn't regulate the shiat out of the industry?


You act like firearms manufactures can just slap together whatever junk they have laying around without any regulation.
 
2012-12-19 12:21:11 PM

wambu: GanjSmokr: I'd be curious to know how many (if any at all) of these sprees involved the shooter being on any kind of SSRI meds...


. . . or wearing black clothes.


Well, one of those 2 things (SSRIs & black clothes) actually modify your brain... so... there's that.


vegasj: GanjSmokr: I'd be curious to know how many (if any at all) of these sprees involved the shooter being on any kind of SSRI meds...

If SSRI meds = anti-psychotic meds... then

Excellent point and I've been trying to get this info out there...

VA Tech = yes
Newtown = Yes
Columbine = yes
Red Lake = Yes


Thanks for enabling my laziness.
 
2012-12-19 12:21:35 PM

Friction8r: WhippingBoy: Dear America,

Once everyone in your country has killed each other, can I have Disneyland?

Sincerely,

WhippingBoy

Dear WhippingBoy,

Your name is appropriate as your country is OUR WhippingBoy! Figures that you'd covet Disneyland, given the cesspool of shiat you live in. Impotency much?


So is that a "yes"?
 
2012-12-19 12:23:00 PM

you have pee hands: It's only an excellent point in the cases where the guns weren't stolen.


Not really. Why do you wish to look past the fact they are all medicated? Perhaps wrongly medicated even?

 
2012-12-19 12:23:59 PM

Flakeloaf: "Hispanic, Christian cisgendered woman threatens white atheist student bullies with semi-automatic assault glock and pit-bull. Sexting."

Am I doing this right?


FTFY
 
2012-12-19 12:24:16 PM

you have pee hands: vegasj: If SSRI meds = anti-psychotic meds... then

Excellent point and I've been trying to get this info out there...
 
It's only an excellent point in the cases where the guns weren't stolen.


So we should only look at brain modifying medication if the guns used aren't stolen? And if someone shoots up a school with stolen guns, we should dismiss any SSRI usage?

notsureifserious.jpg
 
2012-12-19 12:24:36 PM

CruJones: Wow, a semi-automatic? Those should be banned! All guns should hold one bullet max.

/even shotguns are semi-auto often


Fail in Human Form: Carn: Fail in Human Form: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?

Three.

Cute. How many deaths? How about this, you pick your four best school stabbings in the last 13 years and we'll compare that with the four US school shootings with the most victims and compare shall we?

VA Tech 2007 - 32 dead, 17 injured
Newtown 2012 - 27 dead (and his mother)
Columbine 1999 - 13 dead, 21 injured
Red Lake 2004 - 7 dead, 5 injured (also killed 2 others before the school)

Total: 79 dead, 43 injured. An average of 20 dead and 10 injured per incident over four shootings.

It's obviously not the body count that bothers you. Many more people die of a multitude of preventable things every year, so what is it about firearms that pushes your panic button?

Nice strawman. It should actually be obvious that the body count IS what bothers me. Oh and maybe the fact that we're talking about little kids. Who says I'm not in favor of preventing whatever other preventable deaths you are imagining?

Then why single out firearms ownership, a constitutionally protected right? How about we ban all fast food and you fight as hard for that as you're fighting against guns rights? It would save far many more lives every year.


Ive said it before and Ill say it again, its not about lives for these people, its about guns and thats all. They just want guns gone. They have this ingrained fear of the things. These are the same people who get panicked if they see a gun just sitting on a table. Just the presence of the inanimate object is enough to scare them, like its some predator thats going to jump up and attack without warning.

They are just as bad, maybe even worse, that the super pro-gun wackos. Equal amounts of derp, opposite ends of the spectrum. Both ends are nothing more than activists with agendas. They dont want fair, they just want their way.
 
2012-12-19 12:25:18 PM

Carn: liam76: BS.

If body count was the issue you would be looking at things that kill far more people.

What's the usual death rate among first graders? During school hours?


You realize that death during school hours isn't the same as body count, right?

How many first graders are going to die this year because of gun violence compared to traffic, pool, or alcohol related falities? You don't know or care because you don't care about "body count".

Carn: Excellent points. We have laws that determine what types of vehicles can be on the road and what safety measures they must include to be road worthy.


Yeah. We don't have laws that say you can't own a car that can go faster than the speed limit.

We don't have laws saying you can't own x type of car for personal use off the road.


Carn: We also require insurance for drivers, licenses and recurring testing.


For drivers on public roads.


Carn: We have laws that say an unfenced below ground pool is a public nuisance and if a kid makes his way into your pool and drowns himself, you are liable.


I believe in most places if your gun is left out and used to hurt someone you can be sued.


Carn: We have laws on what kind of alcoholic beverages are allowed for sale, who can make them, and they must also pass through many safety regulations set by FDA and other organizations


So what are the 'legit uses' of alcohol? Can you satisfy those legit uses by banning alcohol over 9% abv? Why are you not arguing for that?
 
2012-12-19 12:27:11 PM
"semi-automatic"
 
DRINK!
 
2012-12-19 12:27:32 PM

GanjSmokr: Thanks for enabling my laziness.


No prob. PBS Frontline did a special, "The Medicated Child" (you can watch online)

In recent years, there's been a dramatic increase in the number of children being diagnosed with serious psychiatric disorders and prescribed medications that are just beginning to be tested in children. The drugs can cause serious side effects, and virtually nothing is known about their long-term impact. "It's really to some extent an experiment, trying medications in these children of this age," child psychiatrist Dr. Patrick Bacon tells FRONTLINE. "It's a gamble. And I tell parents there's no way to know what's going to work."

I wish more parents would watch this... and confront their kid's school and Dr before they openly give in to have their kids drugged up.

 
2012-12-19 12:28:24 PM

vegasj: Not really. Why do you wish to look past the fact they are all medicated? Perhaps wrongly medicated even?



I may have misinterpreted your point.  If so, sorry.  A lot of people are wringing their hands and blaming spree shootings on the state of US mental health medical care or the fact that crazy people are getting access to guns, when that had nothing to do with this case at all.  The kid was clearly crazy but he came from a family well off enough to afford mental health care and he didn't buy the guns so a psychological background check for weapons purchase wouldn't have mattered either.
 
2012-12-19 12:28:33 PM
I would comment there are a lot of wild ass frothing mouthed evil kids who need to be confronted with a handgun but this week seems like the wrong time to post anything like that, so I won't.
 
2012-12-19 12:32:36 PM
Just renewed my NRA membership yesterday.

Bring on the hate b*tches.
 
2012-12-19 12:35:28 PM

WhippingBoy: Friction8r: WhippingBoy: Dear America,

Once everyone in your country has killed each other, can I have Disneyland?

Sincerely,

WhippingBoy

Dear WhippingBoy,

Your name is appropriate as your country is OUR WhippingBoy! Figures that you'd covet Disneyland, given the cesspool of shiat you live in. Impotency much?

So is that a "yes"?


No, that's a "Why don't you gather your unarmed countrymen and feeble military and try to take Disneyland from us?" Mickey Mouse alone would mop the floor with you pansies.
 
2012-12-19 12:36:23 PM

Clemkadidlefark: I would comment there are a lot of wild ass frothing mouthed evil kids who need to be confronted with a handgun but this week seems like the wrong time to post anything like that, so I won't.


But it's true.

And it isn't the loners/losers that need it, it's the popular kids.
 
2012-12-19 12:37:24 PM

you have pee hands: The kid was clearly crazy but he came from a family well off enough to afford mental health care and he didn't buy the guns so a psychological background check for weapons purchase wouldn't have mattered either.


I do agree his mother was an irrisponsible gun owner if he could get them that easily.

But the answer would be to a) school gun owners more on firearm ownership & b) investigate more closely these drugs (typically adult drugs) that they are feeding today's children... because they seem to have a factor in making them tomorrow's nutcases.

 
2012-12-19 12:39:39 PM

GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.


surely this late in the thread, someone will have pointed out that little episode in china that happened on the same day

but, you know, it's in china

which isn't the u.s. or israel

so it doesn't count

right?

/do agree that high capacity semi auto rifles being widely available to the public doesn't help
 
2012-12-19 12:43:15 PM

Friction8r: WhippingBoy: Friction8r: WhippingBoy: Dear America,

Once everyone in your country has killed each other, can I have Disneyland?

Sincerely,

WhippingBoy

Dear WhippingBoy,

Your name is appropriate as your country is OUR WhippingBoy! Figures that you'd covet Disneyland, given the cesspool of shiat you live in. Impotency much?

So is that a "yes"?

No, that's a "Why don't you gather your unarmed countrymen and feeble military and try to take Disneyland from us?" Mickey Mouse alone would mop the floor with you pansies.


Ha! You slay me! Thanks for the yuks!
 
2012-12-19 12:45:47 PM

inner ted: GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.

surely this late in the thread, someone will have pointed out that little episode in china that happened on the same day

but, you know, it's in china

which isn't the u.s. or israel

so it doesn't count

right?

/do agree that high capacity semi auto rifles being widely available to the public doesn't help


High Capacity = ?
Semi-auto=majority of firearms
Rifle=hard to conceal if commission of crime is your goal.
 
2012-12-19 12:46:38 PM

dustygrimp: Flakeloaf: "Hispanic, Christian cisgendered woman threatens white atheist student bullies with semi-automatic assault glock and pit-bull. Sexting."

Am I doing this right?

FTFY


I bow to your superior hotbutton-mashing.
 
2012-12-19 12:46:58 PM
In rare cases, one should be able to deny someone a gun base on looks alone. If this chick walked into your store and wanted a gun, wouldn't you take one look at her and think, "mmmno...no no... Just no. "

/kidding
//kind of
 
2012-12-19 12:47:42 PM

Fail in Human Form:

/Decided to make the credit card cry a little and I'm going to the local gun shop to see if I can find an AR-15 in a few hours before you guys drive the price any higher


Actually, that would be YOU guys, and your NRA.

I'm not going to make judgement calls on the NRA's pros vs. it's undeniable cons, I'm just going to point out that it has opposed reasonable and logical suggestions towards hurting the black market for guns because their corporate backers (you did know they had corporate backers, right?) still turn a profit off of the black market. Because every gun IN the black market was once sold to, and will be replaced at great expense by, the sacrosanct and ever-vigilant Legitimate Legal Responsible Gun Owners™.
 
2012-12-19 12:47:44 PM

Flakeloaf: dustygrimp: Flakeloaf: "Hispanic, Christian cisgendered woman threatens white atheist student bullies with semi-automatic assault glock and pit-bull. Sexting."

Am I doing this right?

FTFY

I bow to your superior hotbutton-mashing.


You're missing "ableist" and "classist".
 
2012-12-19 12:48:42 PM

Pud: At least it wasn't a full automatic assault handgun like an AK-Glock. That would have been REALLY bad


Really not helping. Liberals actually believe that stuff like that exists.
 
2012-12-19 12:49:13 PM
BUT BUT BUT

www.ryeflorida.org


PIGS
 
2012-12-19 12:52:19 PM

letrole: Bullies serve a real purpose as nature's way of correcting abberant ABERRANT behaviour. Anti-Bullying measures are counter-productive. Without a bully to make him conform, a misfit continues to wallow in his own misery. With a bully, the misfit is given hard and firm lessons about fitting into society.


If non-conformists had not been given their freedom to act in the way they do, many of the great inventions of the world would probably not even exist.

///Why are Steve Jobs and Bill Gates wasting all their time tinkering with computers instead of learning how to be good school football jocks like the rest of us? Let's bully them until they lose their passion for electronics, then we will feel safe and vindicated in our douchebag lifestyles!
 
2012-12-19 12:55:03 PM

liam76: Carn: liam76: BS.

If body count was the issue you would be looking at things that kill far more people.

What's the usual death rate among first graders? During school hours?

You realize that death during school hours isn't the same as body count, right?

How many first graders are going to die this year because of gun violence compared to traffic, pool, or alcohol related falities? You don't know or care because you don't care about "body count".

Carn: Excellent points. We have laws that determine what types of vehicles can be on the road and what safety measures they must include to be road worthy.

Yeah. We don't have laws that say you can't own a car that can go faster than the speed limit.

We don't have laws saying you can't own x type of car for personal use off the road.


Carn: We also require insurance for drivers, licenses and recurring testing.

For drivers on public roads.


Carn: We have laws that say an unfenced below ground pool is a public nuisance and if a kid makes his way into your pool and drowns himself, you are liable.

I believe in most places if your gun is left out and used to hurt someone you can be sued.


Carn: We have laws on what kind of alcoholic beverages are allowed for sale, who can make them, and they must also pass through many safety regulations set by FDA and other organizations

So what are the 'legit uses' of alcohol? Can you satisfy those legit uses by banning alcohol over 9% abv? Why are you not arguing for that?


In your mind it's impossible for me to be against gun violence, especially in schools, while also also being in favor of certain measures to improve public safety in other regards?
 
2012-12-19 12:57:13 PM

Sultan Of Herf: CruJones:

Then why single out firearms ownership, a constitutionally protected right? How about we ban all fast food and you fight as hard for that as you're fighting against guns rights? It would save far many more lives every year.

Ive said it before and Ill say it again, its not about lives for these people, its about guns and thats all. They just want guns gone. They have this ingrained fear of the things. These are the same people who get panicked if they see a gun just sitting on a table. Just the presence of the inanimat ...


Strawman. I'm not anti-gun and yet I'm having a conversation, apparently with myself, about a possible moderate stance somewhere between "All guns are ok and everyone should have them!" and "All guns are bad and no one should have any!". I guess I'll stop wasting my time.
 
2012-12-19 12:58:04 PM

GAT_00: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Your statement prefaced with 'dumbass' tells me you're not prepared to make a reasoned debate.

When you resort to name calling, you've lost your credibility and your argument.

Oh please.  Like the NRA is deserving of respect.
 
frepnog: GAT_00: There are not mass knifings

um

22 stabbed

Woo, one.  Find 5 worldwide in the last 10 years.  Mother Jones detailed 62 mass shootings in the US in just the last 30 years and half of those were in the last 10.


Mother jones also counted the newark schoolyard shooting where the victims were hacked and sliced and tortured with machetes....and then shot in the head.

I pretty much stopped reading Mother Jones after that.
 
2012-12-19 12:59:06 PM

Girion47: fark bullies, they're to blame for school shootings.

Want to end the violence?

Teach your little shiats that picking on kids in school is dangerous to their lives, that every time they shove them into a locker, laugh at them, make fun of their clothing, or call them poor, they're getting one step closer to that kid snapping.


I learned that in high school. The freshmen were always picked on on the bus. I sat the furthest back of the freshmen usually and therefore got the most abuse. I tried the whole ignore them and it will go away thing and it didn't really work. One day I just turned around quietly and calmly and said "You know what they say about those kids who shot up Columbine, they were quiet and picked on until they decided not to take it anymore."

Never got picked on again really.
 
2012-12-19 12:59:25 PM

Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?

Three.

Cute. How many deaths? How about this, you pick your four best school stabbings in the last 13 years and we'll compare that with the four US school shootings with the most victims and compare shall we?

VA Tech 2007 - 32 dead, 17 injured
Newtown 2012 - 27 dead (and his mother)
Columbine 1999 - 13 dead, 21 injured
Red Lake 2004 - 7 dead, 5 injured (also killed 2 others before the school)

Total: 79 dead, 43 injured. An average of 20 dead and 10 injured per incident over four shootings.


Seriously....I mean 17k children are injured per year from school bus accidents...and some of those bus drivers were even drunk.
 
2012-12-19 01:01:37 PM

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: hinten: Watch all the gun nuts hone in on "semi-automatic" vs actually engaging in a constructive discussion and solution. And, yes, this situation does require a solution.

If you don't want it to be a hot-button topic, why bother including it in the description of the gun? It was clearly added to increase the hysteria over the story, so you can't get bent out of shape when it then upsets people.



An adult <i>threatened middle-schoolers with a gun</i>. I damn well hope we don't <i>need</i> qualifiers to amp up hysteria, this is something people should get upset about.
 
/Some middle-schoolers are bullies. <i>All</i> people under eighteen are children. As such, even if they misbehave, they deserve every single protection society offers them. There are no possible circumstances aside from saving your own life where pulling a gun on a child is okay.
 
2012-12-19 01:02:38 PM

Giltric: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?

Three.

Cute. How many deaths? How about this, you pick your four best school stabbings in the last 13 years and we'll compare that with the four US school shootings with the most victims and compare shall we?

VA Tech 2007 - 32 dead, 17 injured
Newtown 2012 - 27 dead (and his mother)
Columbine 1999 - 13 dead, 21 injured
Red Lake 2004 - 7 dead, 5 injured (also killed 2 others before the school)

Total: 79 dead, 43 injured. An average of 20 dead and 10 injured per incident over four shootings.

Seriously....I mean 17k children are injured per year from school bus accidents...and some of those bus drivers were even drunk.


So you're going with the "I'm pro drunk school bus drivers" strawman argument or was it the "injuries in school bus accidents are just as bad as being shot in the face in the middle of class" moral false equivalency? Perhaps you'd like to follow up with an adhominem attack for the tri-fecta?
 
2012-12-19 01:03:41 PM

Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.


The NRA is the one contributing to a culture of armed violence? Looking at the top grossing films of 2012, the top six feature violence and/or specifically gun violence. We also know of some 2012 movies too late in the year to be top grossing, but which also feature violence (one case in point The Dark Knight Rises). Of course, gangster movies and war movies always do great in the cinemas...

Looking at the Top 50 video games, half of them involved violence/combat and/or specifically gun-related violence (e.g. Halo 4, Call of Duty II). The top three TV programs/series in 2012 all feature violence as a main theme: The Walking Dead, Dexter and Homeland.

Of course, the media handling of these true-life incidents don't do the public safety any favours, right? They basically glorify the shooter...how much do you know about the shooter (in recent cases) versus the victims? Of course, today culture totally rewards misbehaviour and attention-whoring. Some people can't get attention the good way, so they choose notoriety over anonymity.

It was hard to find a list of most popular toys of 2012 that didn't have some shaky premises. But of course toy guns have been part of our culture since...forever. Give a kid a stick, in 2 minutes it's a gun. Plus, of course, the role of guns in play...BB guns, pellet guns, airsoft, nerf, paintball tourneys, war re-enactments, hunting, sport (e.g. target shooting).

If guns are so terrible, then we ought to ban guns on screen just as we've banned cigarettes, right?

So we have TV, Movies and Video games as well as the role of guns in simple playing, which, IMHO, shape culture a lot more than a fringe organization such as the NRA.

P.S. This isn't about being anti-violence - I love violence on TV, Movies and video games...send it my way.
 
2012-12-19 01:04:53 PM

Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.


Events in the UK and China have proven your coworker is correct and you are wrong.

Just because you choose to ignore facts and reality does not make the reality you constructed in your mind real.
 
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