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(Denver Post)   News: Woman confronts her daughter's bullies at their school. Fark: With a semi-automatic handgun   (denverpost.com) divider line 243
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8289 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Dec 2012 at 11:13 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-19 11:27:48 AM

baronvonzipper: "Brandishing" is a crime no matter if it's a gun, knife, sword, or any other weapon.


Which, itself, is often a BS charge, since a cop can interpret "carrying" as "brandishing".
 
2012-12-19 11:28:45 AM

Fail in Human Form: Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.

Without the NRA the 2nd amendment would have been hollowed out a long time ago. Your friends sound like FUDDs.


Well, they do spend a lot of their time hunting scwewy wabbits.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-19 11:28:49 AM

Fail in Human Form: Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.

Without the NRA the 2nd amendment would have been hollowed out a long time ago. Your friends sound like FUDDs.



That would be a good thing.  Or even applying the actual constitutional second amendment that has "well regulated militia" in it.
 
2012-12-19 11:29:20 AM

vpb: Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: Rapmaster2000: This wouldn't have happened with a bolt-action handgun.

If you just say "handgun", then it doesn't scare your readers enough and doesn't generate the desired level of hysterical panic and outrage.


Yes, it's silly to be worried about a crazy person with a gun at a school.


Yes, be very worried about the crazy person with the gun. However, that's not what the OP wants you to be worried about. He just wants you to be worried about the gun. Otherwise, he would have said "crazy woman" instead of just "woman". However, he took lots of care in pointing out the "scary" semi-automatic nature of the pistol.
 
2012-12-19 11:29:55 AM

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: hinten: Watch all the gun nuts hone in on "semi-automatic" vs actually engaging in a constructive discussion and solution. And, yes, this situation does require a solution.

If you don't want it to be a hot-button topic, why bother including it in the description of the gun? It was clearly added to increase the hysteria over the story, so you can't get bent out of shape when it then upsets people.


"Hispanic, Christian cisgendered woman threatens white atheist student with semi-automatic assault glock and pit-bull"

Am I doing this right?
 
2012-12-19 11:30:11 AM

Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.


Link

Interesting comment from the New Yorker about how the NRA pushed for a complete re-interpretation of the 2nd Amendment in the 70s.
 
2012-12-19 11:30:19 AM

vpb: Or even applying the actual constitutional second amendment that has "well regulated militia" in it.


This has been decided, just because you don't like the way it was decided doesn't change that.
 
2012-12-19 11:30:50 AM

Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.


I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.
 
2012-12-19 11:31:05 AM

FlashHarry: aren't all handguns pretty much semiautomatic? unless you have a single-action revolver, i guess.


Using a musket just isn't practical for a job like this.
 
2012-12-19 11:31:59 AM
dcist.com 

Everyone's much safer now.
 
2012-12-19 11:32:13 AM

bigbadideasinaction: For decades, the NRA fought to make sure anyone, anywhere could get an untraceable gun.


They fought against registries...to make sure people couldn't be hassled or targetted much in the same way we protect voters by making their ballot secret.....same way we fight to protect the names and identities of those who recieve abortions.
 
2012-12-19 11:33:21 AM

vpb:

That would be a good thing.  Or even applying the actual constitutional second amendment that has "well regulated militia" in it.


I don't think you understand what the term "well-regulated militia" means.
 
2012-12-19 11:34:16 AM
There is an obvious pattern and an obvious solution here. If a state voted for Obama, they should have their guns taken away.
 
2012-12-19 11:34:48 AM

Pelvic Splanchnic Ganglion: hinten: Watch all the gun nuts hone in on "semi-automatic" vs actually engaging in a constructive discussion and solution. And, yes, this situation does require a solution.

If you don't want it to be a hot-button topic, why bother including it in the description of the gun? It was clearly added to increase the hysteria over the story, so you can't get bent out of shape when it then upsets people.

 
Quod erat demonstrandum.


 
 
2012-12-19 11:34:48 AM

WippitGuud: hinten: What Americans should really be worried about, outside of regulation and restrictions, is that the reporting of gun ownership and usage will make it appear that it is completely normal, common, and acceptable by society to use firearms to address everyday problems

Tried to find a picture of Homer shooting the lights in his house to turn them off... GIS failed me.


How about the make-up gun?
farm9.staticflickr.com
 
2012-12-19 11:36:03 AM
Everyone should carry a gun. EVERYONE!

/the NRA told me so
 
2012-12-19 11:36:15 AM

Fail in Human Form: Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.

 
Without the NRA the 2nd amendment would have been hollowed out a long time ago. Your friends sound like FUDDs.
 
 
Without the NRA, we'd have sane gun laws by now.  Instead, we got 30 years of hostility and legal challenges and election funding and bribes.  The Second Amendment is an excuse, no more valid now than the Fourth Amendment is against a DEA seizure or the First Amendment is against a corporation buying out an election.
 
You sound like a gun nut.  Prepare your anus, and we aren't even giving you a pillow.
 
2012-12-19 11:36:30 AM

homelessdude: no matter when it happened......yeesh....mother of the year? i don't know if I would be more scared of the gun or the bags under the eyes.

She seriously looks like she needs some sleep.

[cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com image 320x240]


Never mess with insomniac mom, never.
 
2012-12-19 11:37:21 AM

GAT_00: Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.

 
 
That'll help, but it won't fix everything.  Their brand of dumbass has infused this country, making reasoned debate impossible.
 
Your statement prefaced with 'dumbass' tells me you're not prepared to make a reasoned debate.
 
When you resort to name calling, you've lost your credibility and your argument.
 
/Not a fan of the NRA.
 
2012-12-19 11:38:20 AM

Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.


Why not call a spade a spade and demand 100% civilian confiscation?
 
2012-12-19 11:38:38 AM

GAT_00: Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.

I don't understand people like that.  There are not mass knifings, and the ability to commit mass murder isn't even remotely the same.  It's like saying a single apple and an apple tree are the same thing.


Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

There are three valid reasons for owning a gun: protection of person and property, hunting, and target shooting. I submit that you can satisfy all three of these with shotguns, revolvers, and bolt and lever action rifles. Everything else can be banned immediately without infringing on anyone's rights. It will take decades but eventually you won't see high capacity weapons being used for this sort of thing which will be a mild improvement. Obviously we also need to address mental health issues, and I'm including the doomsday fatalistic mindset here. If you think the world is going to end, you should undergo psychiatric evaluation before being allowed to have any weapons.
 
2012-12-19 11:38:56 AM

GAT_00: I don't understand people like that. There are not mass knifings


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-12-19 11:40:42 AM

GAT_00: There are not mass knifings


um

22 stabbed
 
2012-12-19 11:40:58 AM
Single action revolver:

worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com

Semi automatic handgun:

i258.photobucket.com

I'd rather be shot with the second one...
 
2012-12-19 11:41:12 AM

Generation_D: Fail in Human Form: Generation_D: The NRA needs to be closed down.  They've contributed to a culture of armed violence and blocked reasonable attempts to require registration and require gun safety and training.
 
Most of my gun owning friends agree.  None are NRA members, couldn't handle the derp.
 
I think responsible and well trained gun ownership is possible, but the NRA has made sure that instead we have an effing shooting gallery made up of untrained armed asswits.  It needs to stop. 
 
Shut the effing NRA down, then have a reasonable discussion on what can and cannot be done to fix the mess the NRA significantly helped to create.
 
Without the NRA the 2nd amendment would have been hollowed out a long time ago. Your friends sound like FUDDs.
 
 
Without the NRA, we'd have sane gun laws by now.  Instead, we got 30 years of hostility and legal challenges and election funding and bribes.  The Second Amendment is an excuse, no more valid now than the Fourth Amendment is against a DEA seizure or the First Amendment is against a corporation buying out an election.
 
You sound like a gun nut.  Prepare your anus, and we aren't even giving you a pillow.


So your argument is that since we infringe on one amendment it's ok to infringe on another one? How about we stop both?

/Decided to make the credit card cry a little and I'm going to the local gun shop to see if I can find an AR-15 in a few hours before you guys drive the price any higher
 
2012-12-19 11:41:33 AM
Ban assault pistols!

Pistols that can fire round after round until it is out of ammo, with just a simple pull of the trigger are to dangerous.

I say we move back to dual action revolvers, or cap and ball.
 
2012-12-19 11:42:45 AM

Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.


China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.
 
2012-12-19 11:43:13 AM

PunGent: baronvonzipper: "Brandishing" is a crime no matter if it's a gun, knife, sword, or any other weapon.

Which, itself, is often a BS charge, since a cop can interpret "carrying" as "brandishing".


I believe Miss Manners called it "frightening the horses".
 
2012-12-19 11:43:15 AM

Rapmaster2000: This wouldn't have happened with a bolt-action handgun.

i.walmartimages.com
 
2012-12-19 11:43:25 AM

Fluid: FlashHarry: aren't all handguns pretty much semiautomatic? unless you have a single-action revolver, i guess.

Using a musket just isn't practical for a job like this.


Blunderbuss.

i45.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-19 11:45:38 AM

Giltric: bigbadideasinaction: For decades, the NRA fought to make sure anyone, anywhere could get an untraceable gun.

They fought against registries...to make sure people couldn't be hassled or targetted much in the same way we protect voters by making their ballot secret.....same way we fight to protect the names and identities of those who recieve abortions.



Or driver licenses to drive cars! They deserve the same protection.
 
2012-12-19 11:46:26 AM

fluffy2097: Ban assault pistols!

 
Pistols that can fire round after round until it is out of ammo, with just a simple pull of the trigger are to dangerous.
 
I say we move back to dual action revolvers, or cap and ball.
 
 
You can fire round after round with a dual action revolver.
 
You keep squeezing the trigger until it goes click
 
deathandtaxesmag.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com
 
2012-12-19 11:46:37 AM

This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.


How many, exactly?
 
2012-12-19 11:50:35 AM

GAT_00:   If you're going to do something like this, the target is chosen for a reason and it isn't because you don't expect to get shot.  It's because you want to hurt people there.


So assume the person wants to hurt people at a given location. The person obviously does not care if someone there is armed, according to you. Given that the criminal does not care about living or dying, what makes you think that having a person there to talk softly to the criminal is going to stop him.
 
2012-12-19 11:52:31 AM

Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?


Three.
 
2012-12-19 11:53:00 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Your statement prefaced with 'dumbass' tells me you're not prepared to make a reasoned debate.

When you resort to name calling, you've lost your credibility and your argument.


Oh please.  Like the NRA is deserving of respect.
 

frepnog: GAT_00: There are not mass knifings

um

22 stabbed


Woo, one.  Find 5 worldwide in the last 10 years.  Mother Jones detailed 62 mass shootings in the US in just the last 30 years and half of those were in the last 10.
 
2012-12-19 11:53:16 AM

frepnog: GAT_00: There are not mass knifings

um

22 stabbed


Link
 
2012-12-19 11:54:25 AM

Nutsac_Jim: GAT_00:   If you're going to do something like this, the target is chosen for a reason and it isn't because you don't expect to get shot.  It's because you want to hurt people there.

So assume the person wants to hurt people at a given location. The person obviously does not care if someone there is armed, according to you. Given that the criminal does not care about living or dying, what makes you think that having a person there to talk softly to the criminal is going to stop him.


I like how you assumed for some reason that I think you can talk these people down.  Where did that particular straw man come from?
 
2012-12-19 11:55:16 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: You can fire round after round with a dual action revolver.


Fine. Cap and Ball it is.

Always wanted to try using antique technology like muskets.
 
2012-12-19 11:56:27 AM

fluffy2097: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: You can fire round after round with a dual action revolver.

Fine. Cap and Ball it is.

Always wanted to try using antique technology like muskets.


I have a cap and ball revolver and two muzzle loading rifles. Fun to shoot, but a biatch to clean.
 
2012-12-19 11:57:13 AM

hinten: Watch all the gun nuts hone in on "semi-automatic" vs actually engaging in a constructive discussion and solution. And, yes, this situation does require a solution.


I'm not a gun nut. I've never owned a gun and likely never will.

That doesn't change the fact that calling handguns "Semi-automatic" is an attempt to mislead the public into thinking you're talking about some special class of extra-lethal handgun.

Virtually all modern handguns are semi-automatic.

Next you'll be telling us about the dangers of letting people drink intoxicating alcohol before driving.
 
2012-12-19 11:58:24 AM

fluffy2097: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: You can fire round after round with a dual action revolver.

Fine. Cap and Ball it is.

Always wanted to try using antique technology like muskets.


I have a Uberti 44 cal Walker that is amazing and can be mailed to your doorstep today.
 
2012-12-19 11:59:45 AM

This text is now purple: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?

Three.


Cute. How many deaths? How about this, you pick your four best school stabbings in the last 13 years and we'll compare that with the four US school shootings with the most victims and compare shall we?

VA Tech 2007 - 32 dead, 17 injured
Newtown 2012 - 27 dead (and his mother)
Columbine 1999 - 13 dead, 21 injured
Red Lake 2004 - 7 dead, 5 injured (also killed 2 others before the school)

Total: 79 dead, 43 injured. An average of 20 dead and 10 injured per incident over four shootings.
 
2012-12-19 12:00:13 PM
Just another responsible lawful gun owner...up till the moment they weren't anymore.
 
2012-12-19 12:00:40 PM

Kiwimann: hinten: Watch all the gun nuts hone in on "semi-automatic" vs actually engaging in a constructive discussion and solution. And, yes, this situation does require a solution.

I'm not a gun nut. I've never owned a gun and likely never will.

That doesn't change the fact that calling handguns "Semi-automatic" is an attempt to mislead the public into thinking you're talking about some special class of extra-lethal handgun.

Virtually all modern handguns are semi-automatic.

Next you'll be telling us about the dangers of letting people drink intoxicating alcohol before driving.


Or go all the way
 
2012-12-19 12:01:03 PM

This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.


The outcomes aren't always much different. That one particular one was, but others have been very bad.

Link
 
2012-12-19 12:02:00 PM

Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?

Three.

Cute. How many deaths? How about this, you pick your four best school stabbings in the last 13 years and we'll compare that with the four US school shootings with the most victims and compare shall we?

VA Tech 2007 - 32 dead, 17 injured
Newtown 2012 - 27 dead (and his mother)
Columbine 1999 - 13 dead, 21 injured
Red Lake 2004 - 7 dead, 5 injured (also killed 2 others before the school)

Total: 79 dead, 43 injured. An average of 20 dead and 10 injured per incident over four shootings.


It's obviously not the body count that bothers you. Many more people die of a multitude of preventable things every year, so what is it about firearms that pushes your panic button?
 
2012-12-19 12:03:43 PM

Carn: There are three valid reasons for owning a gun: protection of person and property, hunting, and target shooting. I submit that you can satisfy all three of these with shotguns, revolvers, and bolt and lever action rifles. Everything else can be banned immediately without infringing on anyone's rights. It will take decades but eventually you won't see high capacity weapons being used for this sort of thing which will be a mild improvement. Obviously we also need to address mental health issues, and I'm including the doomsday fatalistic mindset here. If you think the world is going to end, you should undergo psychiatric evaluation before being allowed to have any weapons


What are the valid reasons for having a vehicles? Or a pool? Or alcohol?

Can you satisfy them while banning types of vehicles, pools, and alcohol that people enjoy?

I have no particular attatchment to 'assault weapons' and don't even have a firearm at my house (shotgun at my parents), I have no moral opposition a ban on 'assault weapons' but I am sick of all these half assed arguments that pretend to be about safety.

You can't arbitrarily pick guns make up poorly thought out categories for what is acceptable to suit your approved uses and pretend you are doing it for "safety".
 
2012-12-19 12:04:02 PM

Carn: I had a convo with a pro-gun co-worker yesterday who I respect a lot. He tends to be very libertarian so I knew where he'd stand. The long and short of it is, he basically thinks that someone going on a stabbing spree with a knife is just as bad and has the same outcome as mass shootings. I submit that this is not a rational conclusion.


The number of guns in the US is huge, on the order of 200 million. The number of spree killings to the number of guns sold per year is vanishingly small. Even if you remove the tool used, you haven't done anything about the mentally unstable person who thinks it's a great idea to kill a bunch of people. This kid in Newton would have probably gone for an IED if he couldn't get these guns. The fact that hie wiped and destroyed the hard drives in his computers shows that he was thinking "rationally" while he was in the midst of this.

I would be happy to see a requirement that any person who wants to purchase a firearm first attend and pass a mandatory gun safety class. I have, my kids all have and I'm considering taking the CCW class even though I don't have a handgun. That wouldn't do anything to stop mass shootings like Newton, but it would ensure that wannabe Rambos have had some gun safety training.

I'd support setting a national minnimum age to purchase guns at age 25. My kids have guns, but I own them and keep the combination to the safe, not them. This would cause some quirks since a 22 year old police officer wouldn't be able to purchase her own gun but would have to rely on a department issued gun. Again, this would have done nothing in Newton, but it would reduce access to the cohort that is most dangerous, men aged 18-25.

I would support requiring an FFL for the possetion of a magazine with a capacity over 15 rounds. That would make a tremendous amount of existing stock illegal though and there would need to be some accomodation. Something like a 10 year grace period where you can turn in a 30 round magazine and be reimbursed the cost of a 15 round magazine.

I would never support restrictions that do nothing like the previous assault weapons ban that banned "mean looking" guns.

It seems to me that the irrational position is to have a knee jerk emotional reaction and start passing stupid laws. The last thing we need is yet another TSA.
 
2012-12-19 12:05:19 PM

Fail in Human Form: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: This text is now purple: Carn: Me either. Well, there are mass knifings, but as has been mentioned a lot, the outcome such as at the one in China last Friday, is much different. 22 Wounded vs 27 dead.

China had three separate school incidents in 2010 alone of knife attacks resulting in multiple fatalities.

How many, exactly?

Three.

Cute. How many deaths? How about this, you pick your four best school stabbings in the last 13 years and we'll compare that with the four US school shootings with the most victims and compare shall we?

VA Tech 2007 - 32 dead, 17 injured
Newtown 2012 - 27 dead (and his mother)
Columbine 1999 - 13 dead, 21 injured
Red Lake 2004 - 7 dead, 5 injured (also killed 2 others before the school)

Total: 79 dead, 43 injured. An average of 20 dead and 10 injured per incident over four shootings.

It's obviously not the body count that bothers you. Many more people die of a multitude of preventable things every year, so what is it about firearms that pushes your panic button?


Nice strawman. It should actually be obvious that the body count IS what bothers me. Oh and maybe the fact that we're talking about little kids. Who says I'm not in favor of preventing whatever other preventable deaths you are imagining?
 
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