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(Slate)   Lest we forget: The deadliest school massacre in US history happened 85 years ago. 45 dead, 38 of whom were children. The perpetrator? A cranky teabagger mad about taxes   (slate.com) divider line 346
    More: Sad, school massacres, school violence, target shooting, town clerks, small farm, elementary schools  
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28170 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Dec 2012 at 2:17 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-19 03:55:06 AM

FlashHarry: jeez, what a psycho. today, they'd give him a prime-time fox show.


Or a show on MSNBC.
 
2012-12-19 03:56:16 AM

namatad: What do I do?


Talk to him regularly. Be his dependible link to participation in the social contract. What's the worst that happens, his life is less lonely?
 
2012-12-19 03:56:56 AM
Wouldn't have happened if there wasn't all those video games about dynamite in the 1920s
 
2012-12-19 03:59:10 AM

lar_m: haha - are schmitting me? Welcome to Fark. Get on the unmiscient hate train.


Have you been tested? I think you might be functionally retarded.
 
2012-12-19 04:00:22 AM

DrPainMD: FlashHarry: jeez, what a psycho. today, they'd give him a prime-time fox show.
 
 
Especially if you're also a cocaine smuggler.
[upload.wikimedia.org image 200x254]


Citation.jpg
 
2012-12-19 04:00:37 AM

The Green Manalishi: I haven't seen this much derp flying around since the election.


I've been avoiding this topic around here myself.

Just found this particular story interesting.
 
2012-12-19 04:03:35 AM

log_jammin: namatad: I have a friend. I have known him forever. 30+ years. We joke about him being the next Unibomber.


why? what does he do to make you think that?



oh pretty much everything that you would read about in the papers and go "everyone KNEW that he was nutty" "why didnt someone do something before this happened"
 
some mental illness, paranoid bullshiat
guns, but maybe too many guns, ammo, but maybe too much ammo
genius, government is "bad", both parties are bad, taxes are illegal
ultra-paranoid with computer security and anonymous email and and and and and
trouble keeping a jorb, even with degrees in physics and mechEE
enough knowledge to build bombs and what not (although you could train squirrels to do that)
almost completely off the grid
wont fly because he is worried that he is on a list ...
the list goes on and on and on, and everyone who knows him thinks the same. isnt just me...
 
none of these are illegal (some are on the edge)
but ALL of these together make a pattern
the pattern does lead to proof of a crime to come
which is part of the question: when does society start looking at these people different than we do today?
when does the RISK that they might be become great enough to do something??
We know just thinking or writing about isnt enough ... but
 
If he lost it tomorrow and blew up a federal building, I would look back and ask, WHY THE fark DIDNT I DO SOMETHING? ANYTHING??
 
My shrink has guidelines. When she must report. And he doesnt fall under those guidelines, yet.
But we know that this KID did. And most of the other nuts. And yet, no one wants to report uncle joe. He's my uncle ....
 
And now is a damn good time to be talking about moral dilemmas, not afterwards.
In the end, I dont want to be one of THOSE people, who could have done something.
Unless doing something would actually push him over the edge!
And it is probably time for some sleep.
 
2012-12-19 04:04:09 AM

namatad: Generation_D: im convinced the newtown punk had loads of warning signs, but the parents hid them from authority.  vice presidents are probably pretty good at getting small town cops to ignore arrests that could have happened otherwise.  upper middle class family with a recent divorce... probably some real clues if they wanted to quit ignoring them.


So
I have a friend. I have known him forever. 30+ years. We joke about him being the next Unibomber.
What do I do?
He hasn't killed anyone yet.
He hasn't threatened to kill anyone yet. (other than his completely rational HATE of chicago cops!!)
He hasn't shared his manifesto, yet.
He pays for things in cash, which is legal.
He owns guns, but so does 50% of america.
He owns dogs too.
He hasn't broken any laws. 
But he is also the person that I know who is mostly likely to go unibomber.
(You will all get to see me on national news going "Eyup. We always knew that he would pop one day.")
 
so
what do I do?
What do any of us do?
We all have someone like that in our life.
The more than slightly nutty. The right on the edge.
If I knew he was buying bomb materials, boom, I would contact the FBI.
If I knew that he was making a hit list, boom, FBI. Unless he was planning on killing those rape-american GOP candidates, then I would wait until he was done to turn him in.
 
so
what does anyone do? we turn away and do nothing.
I would lose him as a friend if I reported him. He would probably die when they attempted to arrest him.
fark
 
time to have this conversation with my family and friends. the people who know him.
But what about the rest of you? What would you do?
And what will you do today, concerning your nutty uncle/friend/brother.
You know the one.
The one most likely to go postal.
 
fark
I HATE MORALS!!!


Sounds like you're judgmental on someone who isn't like you or the other friends who know him. Anyways tendencies and reactions to everyday situations are tell-tale signs to watch for. Too many people like to pin badges to people who have one or two "nut case" stereotypes but are otherwise normal. Sadly it's easier to label someone a nutcase than to defend against it in the current world.
 
2012-12-19 04:04:56 AM

Beaver Knievel: Citation.jpg



ManuelNoriega,jpg
 
2012-12-19 04:05:11 AM

Tickle Mittens: namatad: What do I do?

Talk to him regularly. Be his dependible link to participation in the social contract. What's the worst that happens, his life is less lonely?


Eyup. I go out of my way to do that. If nothing else, to keep a finger on the pulse.
On the other hand, there is only so much truther, gubermint is out ta getcha, that a normal person can take.
 
 
2012-12-19 04:07:27 AM

log_jammin: Beaver Knievel: Citation.jpg


ManuelNoriega,jpg


Derp.jpg
 
2012-12-19 04:10:17 AM

Beaver Knievel: Derp.jpg

 
hey, you asked.
 
2012-12-19 04:12:07 AM

RabidJade: Sounds like you're judgmental on someone who isn't like you or the other friends who know him. Anyways tendencies and reactions to everyday situations are tell-tale signs to watch for. Too many people like to pin badges to people who have one or two "nut case" stereotypes but are otherwise normal. Sadly it's easier to label someone a nutcase than to defend against it in the current world.


hahahaahah hahahahaha hahahahahahahah hahahaha
god I wish that were all that it was.
That would make things trivial. This is someone that I have known all my life. He is like family. 
It isnt any of the things. It is the pattern. There is a difference between all the tea party nuts and the Timothy McVeighs of the world. The question is can we and how do we tell the difference.
 
Believe me, if it were only one or two differences, if it were a healthy kind of difference.
But it is the pattern. The larger number of them.
And you are right, there are tons of survivalist, sovereignists, anti-government types out there who, while completely nutty, are probably also "safe" and not a threat to the rest of us. 
 
So what are the patterns, what are the "limits" when does 2-3 nutty, but probably safe, become completely and totally front page news.
 
Is it as simple as "if the police came to his door, would he die in a shoot out" nutty??
If the answer is no, he would be able to answer the door like an adult, then fine.
But if it is yes, he would shoot to kill rather than answer the doorbell, then turn him in.
 
bah
too late for this
 
2012-12-19 04:12:22 AM

log_jammin: Beaver Knievel: Derp.jpg
 
hey, you asked.


Evidence besides wikipedia?

Again, Liberal DERP.jpg (The worst most scurrilous kind.)
 
2012-12-19 04:24:09 AM

moothemagiccow: Gyrfalcon: We as a society choose to ignore them at our continued peril.

Well yeah, plenty of dog/horse-murderers don't go on to murder children. They probably just keep on killing dogs and horses.



Usually you make sense. This time you don't.
 
2012-12-19 04:25:16 AM

Beaver Knievel: Again, Liberal DERP.jpg (The worst most scurrilous kind.)



You're seriously asking for evidence of Manuel Noriega's involvement in the drug trade, and his relationship with Oliver North? really?
 
well ok then. Is Fox news good enough?
 
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4274994/france-jails-manuel-noriega-on-dr ug -charges/
 
2012-12-19 04:40:11 AM
NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO TALK ABOUT BOMB CONTROL!
 
2012-12-19 04:42:49 AM

d-fens99: violentsalvation: The_Sponge: First, don't fark with me. I'm a desperate man! And second, I want some fresh coffee. And third, I want a recount! And no matter how it turns out, I want my old job back!

And I want a bigger office! And I want a new car! And I want the city to pay for it all!


Your car, sir.

[robocoparchive.com image 700x380]


"We'll even throw in a Blaupunkt!"
 
2012-12-19 05:01:09 AM

namatad:
We all have someone like that in our life.
The more than slightly nutty. The right on the edge.


Nope.
 
2012-12-19 05:05:22 AM
and he used a bomb. not a gun.
 
2012-12-19 05:07:03 AM
Approves this thread.

t0.gstatic.com
 
2012-12-19 05:17:40 AM
well I guess that was a good enough citation for him.
 
2012-12-19 05:23:27 AM

FlashHarry: jeez, what a psycho. today, they'd give him a prime-time fox show.


So, what you're saying is, that's been the American solution to mental health care all along? Fox news? Explains a whole bunch, I suppose...

/you don't need to pay $5 a month for TotalSnark.com, it's free!
//socialized ad revenue FTW!
 
2012-12-19 05:30:28 AM

wildcardjack: So.... Has Dynamite control worked?


Yes.

 
 
2012-12-19 05:30:45 AM

david_gaithersburg: Approves this thread.

[goebbels.jpg]


If you keep reducing taxes on the rich, some day all the wealth will trickle down...
The GOP is the party of small government...
If you keep reducing taxes on the rich, some day all the wealth will trickle down...
The GOP is the party of small government...
If you keep reducing taxes on the rich, some day all the wealth will trickle down...
The GOP is the party of small government...
 
2012-12-19 05:34:23 AM
To all of my crazy aunts posting "This is what you get when God isn't allowed in schools" stuff, I'm pretty sure God was allowed in Bath, MI in 1927. The Amish school shooting a few years ago as well...
 
2012-12-19 05:51:52 AM

Beaver Knievel: Evidence besides wikipedia?



Wikipedia works like this--when you click on an entry, you are given a summary of the most pertinent parts of the subject you are looking up, separated by sub-topic and book ended by references.  Within this summary are annotations (those are the little numbered hotlinks).  Those lead to footnotes.  Those footnotes are citations that lead you to sources.
 
2012-12-19 05:57:13 AM
Nice troll assmitter and whomever gave this a green.
 
2012-12-19 05:59:25 AM
Don't Tread on Me!
 
2012-12-19 06:03:40 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Nice troll assmitter and whomever gave this a green.



Wrong thread?
 
2012-12-19 06:09:10 AM
There isn't much to divine from this incident today.
The only lesson I take is that, while we've put in alot of arms and explosives control since, we still haven't hit the root of the problem.
 
2012-12-19 06:11:46 AM
"Twitter Is Growing at Facebook-Like Speed"
 
2012-12-19 06:26:26 AM

IlGreven: I believe it was a truck filled with fertilizer, but the point stands.


If schools were filled with fertilizer, dynamite and guns then no children would have been killed in such attacks.

/because there would be no room for them
 
2012-12-19 06:33:31 AM
Being a cranky teabagger definitely is a sign of mental illness. Shouldn't be able to own a gun.
 
2012-12-19 06:35:05 AM

Gelatinous: armoredbulldozer: people that protest a wasteful and overtaxing government

The Tea Party is funded by the Koch brothers. It is used as a mouthpiece for their business interests. Remaining ignorant of this must be an incredible act of willpower.


So what's new on MSNBC today?
 
2012-12-19 06:37:16 AM
They always kill themselves afterward. You can't explain that.
 
2012-12-19 06:41:52 AM

way south: The only lesson I take is that, while we've put in alot of arms and explosives control since, we still haven't hit the root of the problem.


Actually, if you look at explosives control laws, and the number of bombings which involved anything other than home-made explosives, you'll see a direct correlation.

Hell, since the OKC bombing, we started tracking large sales of fertilizer and we haven't had a single bombing involving fertilizer/fuel oil. Imagine the destruction McVeigh could have caused is the truck had been full of legally-obtained C4 or dynamite.
 
GBB
2012-12-19 06:45:09 AM
Dynamite.... Now why didn't I think of that???
 
2012-12-19 06:46:59 AM
Damn these massacre threads are depressing...

...that wasn't meant to sound as stupid as it does. Of course it sucks that a bunch of small children and schoolteachers were killed for no good reason, but children die in vain every day and it's no use letting it get you down. Even if you're solely concerned with American children, I bet America has found a way to kill more than 20 (or 38) of its children in the short time since the massacre, every bit as pointlessly (by abuse, neglect, accident, etc.)

What's depressing me is the fact that every thread touching on the massacre had been dominated by a shiat-flinging match punctuated by hand-wringing, pipe-dream "solutions" that wouldn't work if SCOTUS were dosed with ketamine, and frank hatred and scorn directed at diverse swathes of people for their ideology (i.e. bigotry). Some posters appear to lose sight of what they're damning, like a child in a tantrum over having a toy taken away who ends up stomping his toys. That's not far out from folks who respond to the killing of 27 humans by calling for the extinction of the human race or yearning to be banished from humanity -- practically in the same breath!

I'll try to contribute something like a respectable idea: I think that impeding access to weapons reduces crimes committed with those weapons. It certainly works with dynamite though, obviously, you'll never get perfect safety as someone will go to the effort to get hold of it. The difficulty with impeding access to guns is that this can be reasonably regarded as an infringement on the right to keep and bear arms, SCOTUS will only so far in allowing it, and it doesn't matter what noble and wise law you craft against guns if they toss it in the shiatcan before the ink dries on it. It has been noted that the 2nd Amendment is not as useful as it was in 1791 and is now more trouble than it's worth, and if that is so it must be changed or abolished through the amendment process, which is a lot of work but far more likely to do good than hoping that, if enough people complain loudly enough, SCOTUS will decide that it means what they want it to mean.

Even in the setting of a revised 2nd Amendment, there would be major practical problems with restricting guns in the U.S., at least in the foreseeable future, due to the peculiar nature of this country. Germany is supposed to be the worst country in Europe in terms of gun-related deaths. They have about 4 million gun owners in a population of 80 million, i.e. 5%. In the U.S. that figure is near 50%. This means that if we wanted to reduce deaths by restricting access, we would have to take all the guns away from (.45 * 315) = 142 million people. "Cold, dead fingers" rhetoric aside, this would be a colossal undertaking, hellishly expensive, years in execution, and inevitably attended with incidents that would make a school shooting look like high tea with the vicar. All this would put us in competition with Germany for last place, assuming that the 5% of Americans allowed guns behaved as well as Germans, and assuming that no other factors make shootings more common among Americans, which is patently false.

TL;DR? We could save people by getting rid of guns, but it would take a huge amount of work and determination extended over a long period. There isn't enough political will for that (yet) so we're just going to have to put up with the guns and try to minimize the problem by unsatisfying approaches that marginally reduce the rate of ghastly massacres.
 
2012-12-19 06:52:01 AM

way south: There isn't much to divine from this incident today.
The only lesson I take is that, while we've put in alot of arms and explosives control since, we still haven't hit the root of the problem.


We're never going to completely stop lunatics from killing people; it's a simple fact that there will always be nutjobs, and they will always find a way to kill people. But we CAN make incidents less frequent. We can improve the quality of our mental healthcare system, so perhaps some of these crazies can be noticed and helped before they reach the 'Murderous rampage' stage. We can impose stricter regulations on firearm ownership, so at least it's harder for nutjobs to acquire a weapon that can kill dozens in quick succession, and thus give them (or their family members) more time to find the help they need.

But it seems modern conservatives would rather turn our schools into militarized zones than address mental healthcare or sensible gun control.
 
2012-12-19 06:53:17 AM

pxlboy: RamboFrog: I'll see your 45 dead at the hands of someone angry about taxes and raise you 7,500,000 killed by a person who believed in a centralized government and spreading the wealth around.


Begun the derp has


Not saying I agree with him, but why is this derp? Because its a faux pas to bring up the holocaust? Is it because he raises the stakes exponentially? Because it relates hitler to what is considered a leftist mentality? I legitimately want to know, because I don't really get the Derp about it, hitler did murder millions because of his view on government and its role.
 
2012-12-19 06:54:56 AM

Greywar: I brought up the bath school massacre to folks on my facebook a couple days ago when they went all gun control on me. Apparently my pro-gun viewpoint surprised them.


Are you sure it wasn't because you used a horrible tragedy from decades ago as some sort of rationalization that gun control is pointless?

Perhaps it was your stupidity that surprised them.
 
2012-12-19 06:55:39 AM

namatad:
so
what does anyone do? we turn away and do nothing.
I would lose him as a friend if I reported him. He would probably die when they attempted to arrest him.!


Um... I don't know how the US works, but in most civilized places, this would call for a psych evaluation, not an arrest.

Stop hemming and hawing sitting around at home wringing your hands over Google diagnoses. If you're that worried, have a professional evaluate him to get some solid ground to stand on.
 
2012-12-19 06:56:21 AM

Dwight_Yeast: way south: The only lesson I take is that, while we've put in alot of arms and explosives control since, we still haven't hit the root of the problem.

Actually, if you look at explosives control laws, and the number of bombings which involved anything other than home-made explosives, you'll see a direct correlation.

Hell, since the OKC bombing, we started tracking large sales of fertilizer and we haven't had a single bombing involving fertilizer/fuel oil. Imagine the destruction McVeigh could have caused is the truck had been full of legally-obtained C4 or dynamite.


How does ANFO compare to C4 or dynamite? I know ANFO packs a hell of a punch, but I'm not sure how it compares.
 
2012-12-19 06:57:57 AM

Dwight_Yeast: and we haven't had a single bombing involving fertilizer/fuel oil.



really? Or just no OKC size bombings? Because it doesn't take much to make a pretty big boom.
 
Not saying you are wrong, but it just strikes me as unlikely, and my google-fu is coming up short on the subject.
 
2012-12-19 07:00:31 AM

ShannonKW: There isn't enough political will for that (yet)


I farking knew it!!

Guns don't kill people, politicians kill people - at long last, the discussion is FINALLY getting somewhere!

notevensureifimseriousanymore.jpg
 
2012-12-19 07:02:03 AM

LordJiro: How does ANFO compare to C4 or dynamite?



I got to go to here a few years ago. http://www.emrtc.nmt.edu/ and from the little I remember, a couple of dog food sized sacks of ANFO obliterated a car and the little shed/house next to it. But I can't remember if they did anything with dynamite. But C4 seemed a little bit weaker than I pictured it being.
 
2012-12-19 07:03:59 AM

Ordinary Genius: pxlboy: RamboFrog: I'll see your 45 dead at the hands of someone angry about taxes and raise you 7,500,000 killed by a person who believed in a centralized government and spreading the wealth around.


Begun the derp has

Not saying I agree with him, but why is this derp? Because its a faux pas to bring up the holocaust? Is it because he raises the stakes exponentially? Because it relates hitler to what is considered a leftist mentality? I legitimately want to know, because I don't really get the Derp about it, hitler did murder millions because of his view on government and its role.


Because he's not referring to Hitler. He's referring to Stalin, in a "Communism bad" cliche. Pure derp.
 
2012-12-19 07:04:29 AM

armoredbulldozer: There was no Tea Party then, douchemitter. Why do you guys have a problem with people that protest a wasteful and overtaxing government? (Not this dynamite lunatic, I'm talking present day.) The fleabaggers are the ones that don't even have a cause, and they shiat on cop cars to promote their cause that they are not sure of. I'm glad they are all gone. The ones that committed arson in Denver might be farked, I hope.


Meanwhile, those "fleabaggers" have been providing relief and support to NY residents who lost their shiat during Sandy.

Look up "Occupy Sandy", or their forerunners from Katrina known as the Common Ground Collective.

What have you been doing?
 
2012-12-19 07:05:03 AM

log_jammin: LordJiro: How does ANFO compare to C4 or dynamite?


I got to go to here a few years ago. http://www.emrtc.nmt.edu/ and from the little I remember, a couple of dog food sized sacks of ANFO obliterated a car and the little shed/house next to it. But I can't remember if they did anything with dynamite. But C4 seemed a little bit weaker than I pictured it being.


I only ask because I seem to recall that, for blowing bigger shiat up, the Mythbusters seem to go for ANFO. Like the cement truck.
 
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