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(SFGate)   Live in California and don't have solar panels? That'll be 4% more on your electric bill, dirty energy consumer   (sfgate.com) divider line 21
    More: Asinine, solar panels, fixed costs, solar energy  
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7602 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Dec 2012 at 10:57 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2012-12-18 09:32:53 PM  
4 votes:
We could nationalize the wires and treat it like a public good, similar to the highways or (hopefully) the internet. Then use public money to upgrade and maintain it - similar to the Department of Transportation on the state level.
 
But I'm just a crazy liberal.
2012-12-18 09:18:36 PM  
3 votes:
F*ck PG&E
 
/seriously... they're just evil
2012-12-19 12:30:52 AM  
2 votes:
"After a google search it turns out that creating residential power using gas, diesel, or propane among other methods is illegal. WTF?"

With good reason. Because it is very possible to KILL me or my crew if everyone was allowed to generate in parallel with the grid. Transformers aren't directional; you generate 240v single phase for your house, and it will backfeed into the grid, even if I have a line out of service. However you generate it, it will feed into the distribution system stepping up to the tens of thousands of volts. Let's say I'm working on a supposedly dead line then someone turns on a generator somewhere without opening their main dx. That someone just energized what I'm working on with lethal levels of voltage. Co-generation is marked on area maps by a power system engineer so we know where to go to lock out their switchgear so that this cannot happen. "Rouge generation" (as it is called) can end someone's life.

It is a good thing it is illegal. You can't trust johnny jackoff the homeowner with these sorts of things.
2012-12-18 11:28:45 PM  
2 votes:
No solar panels.

Because, many years ago before solar, I planted giant redwoods to block the sun from shining on my home - so it wouldn't require as much energy to cool it in the summer.

/and I still get solar panel folks knocking on my door
//I give them an incredulous look and ask them if they're paying attention
2012-12-18 11:15:45 PM  
2 votes:
So is this a genuine step towards reducing fossil fuel consumption or did some solar panel seller grease certain palms in Sacramento?
2012-12-18 11:05:39 PM  
2 votes:
Unintended consequences to liberal utopias?

Oh nos!
2012-12-18 08:41:52 PM  
2 votes:
Good.
2012-12-19 12:40:04 AM  
1 votes:

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Dude, if you're interested in this, check out The Hunt for Zero Point by Nick Cook. It's a fascinating investigation into 20th century claims of free energy, and how a looming breakthrough all but vanished mysteriously and abruptly.

The author reports his findings in a "just the facts" style, allowing the reader to draw his/her own conclusions. Fascinating read.


Sounds like a crackpot book, to be honest. It's investigating claims that break every law of physics known, something that is quite literally impossible, and then "leaves the reader to draw his/her own conclusions" about something that is impossible.
2012-12-19 12:36:05 AM  
1 votes:
So why is the government forcing utilities to pay an above market price for electricity generated by homeowners? The utilities could just pay the price they buy it from others and then everything would work out fine.

Or is this just a scheme to so that solar panel owners don't have put in storage systems for cloudy days and yet have the economic benefit as if they had? (They get to use the grid as a free battery essentially, they put power in on sunny days and take it out on cloudy days)
2012-12-19 12:32:03 AM  
1 votes:

This poster says: "After a google search it turns out that creating residential power using gas, diesel, or propane among other methods is illegal. WTF?"

With good reason. Because it is very possible to KILL me or my crew if everyone was allowed to generate in parallel with the grid. Transformers aren't directional; you generate 240v single phase for your house, and it will backfeed into the grid, even if I have a line out of service. However you generate it, it will feed into the distribution system stepping up to the tens of thousands of volts. Let's say I'm working on a supposedly dead line then someone turns on a generator somewhere without opening their main dx. That someone just energized what I'm working on with lethal levels of voltage. Co-generation is marked on area maps by a power system engineer so we know where to go to lock out their switchgear so that this cannot happen. "Rouge generation" (as it is called) can end someone's life.

It is a good thing it is illegal. You can't trust johnny jackoff the homeowner with these sorts of things.


Not to mention the pollution standards that a home generator could never hope to match.
2012-12-19 12:12:13 AM  
1 votes:
Somehow, the entire Enron fark-up-the-ass has been forgotten entirely.

When your local production doesn't keep up, you pay double or triple for your power.


Thank Yahweh that you are getting microproduction all across the state. You farking morons. Stop trying to sneak in yet more ways to fark over your consumers.
2012-12-19 12:01:52 AM  
1 votes:

Ima4nic8or: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: We could nationalize the wires and treat it like a public good, similar to the highways or (hopefully) the internet. Then use public money to upgrade and maintain it - similar to the Department of Transportation on the state level.
 
But I'm just a crazy liberal.

No, you are a crazy socialist.

A government takeover is not a solution. We need to encourage competition. Why do I have only one option for electricity? Why only one option for water? What is this communist Russia? Where are the goddamn competitors? That is the only way to bring prices down to a reasonable level. As long as government selected monopolies control these things we will pay through the nose.


Competition for transmission wires? That's certainly free-market-y. You see, as I said before, I'm a crazy liberal, and I believe we tried competition for stuff like that and it didn't work (Philadelphia fire department, circa 1780 and New York DC electric wires in the Edison/Tesla days). I'm certainly open to the idea of putting enough solar panels everywhere to allow anyone to sell excess electricity and be their own power company, just like I support the idea that anyone could open their own ISP if the "tubes" of the internet are nationalized. Water is a bit more tricky, but if someone can present an actual viable solution to make monopolistic water utilities obsolete, I'd love to hear it. Until then, deal with it.
 
I want the method and medium of transmission as public property, not the actual companies behind it. But just keep whacking at that strawman.
2012-12-18 11:56:40 PM  
1 votes:

Mikeyworld: Go California! This'll drive the cost of solar panels and reverse power equipment down to livable levels, Now, they just need to incorporate the panels into roofing, so we can kill stones with one bird. How long does a solar panel last out in the weather, anyways?


20 years or so per http://scitizen.com/future-energies/how-long-do-solar-panels-last-_a-1 4-2897.html
Pay off is 12 years or so in per http://www.moneyweek.com/personal-finance/will-solar-panels-pay-for-th emselves-47322

Huge problem from my perspective. I dont want to be a slave to anyone for that long.
2012-12-18 11:47:55 PM  
1 votes:

TheJoe03: tortilla burger: California is really good at spearheading changes that need to be made; unfortunately, California is also really bad at implementing them correctly on the first go-around

Very true, but you always need someone to try and fark up so others can make a better law afterwards. It would be cool if CA took the extra charge and gave it back to the public so we can get solar power for an affordable price.


As I Californian I am much more skeptical. Not only is the state bad at implementing changes on the first go-around, they are bad at implementing them on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, nth go around. The best thing the CA government could do is disolve itself.
2012-12-18 11:34:38 PM  
1 votes:

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: We could nationalize the wires and treat it like a public good, similar to the highways or (hopefully) the internet. Then use public money to upgrade and maintain it - similar to the Department of Transportation on the state level.
 
But I'm just a crazy liberal.


No, you are a crazy socialist.

A government takeover is not a solution. We need to encourage competition. Why do I have only one option for electricity? Why only one option for water? What is this communist Russia? Where are the goddamn competitors? That is the only way to bring prices down to a reasonable level. As long as government selected monopolies control these things we will pay through the nose.
2012-12-18 11:30:20 PM  
1 votes:

TheJoe03: Serious question because I don't know much about the specifics of solar power, would your power supply be diminished in the winter (rainy/cloudy season in California)?


Yes. That said, people tend to use more power in the summer to run air conditioning.
2012-12-18 11:26:11 PM  
1 votes:
It's called incentivizing, subby. A subsidy to one group always comes at the expense of another. Why does this specific instance surprise you?
2012-12-18 11:19:21 PM  
1 votes:
California is really good at spearheading changes that need to be made; unfortunately, California is also really bad at implementing them correctly on the first go-around
2012-12-18 09:11:42 PM  
1 votes:
This is what happens when you let private individual users sell energy back to the power companies. The more private power that gets produced, the more cost to the utilities it becomes, and worse, that cost gets pushed back on the poorest users who can't afford to put up their own generation units.
2012-12-18 08:50:01 PM  
1 votes:
That's cool, if they take that 4% and put it towards buying you some solar panels...
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-18 08:41:43 PM  
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: Pud: What is I use another power source? Like the one I saw in this documentary a few years ago. Do I get the discount then?
 
[t0.gstatic.com image 259x194]


The Matrix was not a documentary!  It was a science fiction film.



No, it was a documentary.  I have been powering my house with fetuses for years now.
 
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