Pud: What is I use another power source? Like the one I saw in this documentary a few years ago. Do I get the discount then?
 
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The Matrix was not a documentary!  It was a science fiction film.

That's cool, if they take that 4% and put it towards buying you some solar panels...

This is what happens when you let private individual users sell energy back to the power companies. The more private power that gets produced, the more cost to the utilities it becomes, and worse, that cost gets pushed back on the poorest users who can't afford to put up their own generation units.

Meh.  I've been paying a fee on a two reactor project that isn't built yet, is already 15 months behind schedule, and has already overrun its budget.

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: We could nationalize the wires and treat it like a public good, similar to the highways or (hopefully) the internet. Then use public money to upgrade and maintain it - similar to the Department of Transportation on the state level.
 
But I'm just a crazy liberal.


yeah, would be great to have our electricity provided in the same manner that we get our crumbling bridges, and pot hole filled streets.

This also happens with out soh panus.

 

/obscure?

MaudlinMutantMollusk: F*ck PG&E
 
/seriously... they're just evil

Sshh, don't let them hear you say that. They might blow up your entire neighborhood.

AverageAmericanGuy: This is what happens when you let private individual users sell energy back to the power companies. The more private power that gets produced, the more cost to the utilities it becomes, and worse, that cost gets pushed back on the poorest users who can't afford to put up their own generation units.

If allowed to run its course, everyone will generate 120% of the power they actually need and will actually end up paying the electric company for the privilege.

Unintended consequences to liberal utopias?

Oh nos!

AverageAmericanGuy: This is what happens when you let private individual users sell energy back to the power companies. The more private power that gets produced, the more cost to the utilities it becomes, and worse, that cost gets pushed back on the poorest users who can't afford to put up their own generation units.


I don't know how it works in CA, but in GA you are FORCED to hook up your generation system to the grid and sell it back. Of course the laws aren't about anything other than the Southern Company maintaining their monopoly and throwing up a barrier to entry for any consumer who wants to generate his own electrons.

dahmers love zombie: What if you live in a basement? 

Well great. There goes the whole TF membership from California.

tenpoundsofcheese: yeah, would be great to have our electricity provided in the same manner that we get our crumbling bridges, and pot hole filled streets.

You mean because of people who benefit from said infrastructure but balk at paying for it?

Yeah, that manner does suck.

hot, poor person tax

AverageAmericanGuy: The more private power that gets produced, the more cost to the utilities it becomes, and worse, that cost gets pushed back on the poorest users who can't afford to put up their own generation units.

Most power companies have a special rate for low-income customers, so it's not as regressive as you might think.

No, the people this hurts are folks (like me) who rent. I can pressure my landlord to install solar panels, but in the end it's not my decision. And even if they did I'm not sure I'd see any discount on my power bill since it's not my building.

Pud: What is I use another power source? Like the one I saw in this documentary a few years ago. Do I get the discount then?

This always bugged me. Why not just have the energy generated by a perpetual motion machine? The science is essentially the same.

Girion47: This also happens with out soh panus.

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/obscure?

Oh god I just saw (parts of) that movie. It felt like a bowel movement in my brain. 

\and apparently there's a sequel

I'd also point out that if you're a homeowner with decent credit, you might be able to get a loan to install solar panels. Solar loans are usually set up so that your monthly loan payment and power bill added together are no more than your average electric rate before the panels were added.

So is this a genuine step towards reducing fossil fuel consumption or did some solar panel seller grease certain palms in Sacramento?

okay.

California is really good at spearheading changes that need to be made; unfortunately, California is also really bad at implementing them correctly on the first go-around

But you build one little tiny reactor in your garden shed, and they swoop in on you like you're some kind of a freak.

AverageAmericanGuy: This is what happens when you let private individual users sell energy back to the power companies. The more private power that gets produced, the more cost to the utilities it becomes, and worse, that cost gets pushed back on the poorest users who can't afford to put up their own generation units.

Things that make you go hmmmmm....

Then why are Edison and DWP constantly whining about people using too much power and that they need to spend zillions of dollars to upgrade infrastructure to meet demand? Seems like they would see reduced demand AND extra sources of energy they could distribute to other users as a godsend.

Too bad the government and private industry colluded to keep free energy a secret in the 1940's, right on the brink of the biggest scientific discovery of all time: zero point energy. The Nazis discovered it at the end of WWII when they were trying to build time machines, and the breakthrough came shortly after the war. And then - nothing. It was completely stifled by the energy industries.

I pay 4% extra to help subsidize the solar panels installed on rich people's roofs?

I'm okay with this.

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: We could nationalize the wires and treat it like a public good, similar to the highways or (hopefully) the internet. Then use public money to upgrade and maintain it - similar to the Department of Transportation on the state level.
 
But I'm just a crazy liberal.

Sorry, I prefer electric like to candles. And it gets cold in the winter.

But then again, I'm living in a truck, so it really doesn't matter to me. So you morons can back that idea, if you want.

It's going to take time and money to utilize solar and other renewables, I think revisiting the rules on utilities integrating renewable energy into the grid is sensible. As a resident of California I am OK with paying a 4% premium until that happens.

Is this like the $65/year to cover people with pre-existing conditions that I'm supposed to be upset about?

Given the terrain and weather in California...this kind of makes sense. If they actually work, and they actually are a net gain, then...yeah. Can also look at it as 4% lower electrical bill for not being a dumbass and using what works.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Too bad the government and private industry colluded to keep free energy a secret in the 1940's, right on the brink of the biggest scientific discovery of all time: zero point energy. The Nazis discovered it at the end of WWII when they were trying to build time machines, and the breakthrough came shortly after the war. And then - nothing. It was completely stifled by the energy industries.


Shiat like this sounds crazy, but then you read about the Phoebus Cartel and you have to wonder...

It's called incentivizing, subby. A subsidy to one group always comes at the expense of another. Why does this specific instance surprise you?

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Too bad the government and private industry colluded to keep free energy a secret in the 1940's, right on the brink of the biggest scientific discovery of all time: zero point energy. The Nazis discovered it at the end of WWII when they were trying to build time machines, and the breakthrough came shortly after the war. And then - nothing. It was completely stifled by the energy industries.

Did this energy source involve separating children from their daemons?

/oh sorry, wrong universe
//and spoilers

No solar panels.

Because, many years ago before solar, I planted giant redwoods to block the sun from shining on my home - so it wouldn't require as much energy to cool it in the summer.

/and I still get solar panel folks knocking on my door
//I give them an incredulous look and ask them if they're paying attention

Insatiable Jesus: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Too bad the government and private industry colluded to keep free energy a secret in the 1940's, right on the brink of the biggest scientific discovery of all time: zero point energy. The Nazis discovered it at the end of WWII when they were trying to build time machines, and the breakthrough came shortly after the war. And then - nothing. It was completely stifled by the energy industries.


Shiat like this sounds crazy, but then you read about the Phoebus Cartel and you have to wonder...

Dude, if you're interested in this, check out The Hunt for Zero Point by Nick Cook. It's a fascinating investigation into 20th century claims of free energy, and how a looming breakthrough all but vanished mysteriously and abruptly.

The author reports his findings in a "just the facts" style, allowing the reader to draw his/her own conclusions. Fascinating read.

As opposed to Texas where I have been in a legal battle with my city for 10 months to finish the alternative power project the initially approved but then halted construction after a local buipder complained.

ImpendingCynic: tenpoundsofcheese: yeah, would be great to have our electricity provided in the same manner that we get our crumbling bridges, and pot hole filled streets.

You mean because of people who benefit from said infrastructure but balk at paying for it?

Yeah, that manner does suck.

Mmmmmmmm.... they ARE paying for it, and the politicians are stealing it for other uses.