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(WXYZ Detroit)   Utah student takes NRA's advice and everyone's in a tizzy   (wxyz.com ) divider line
    More: Dumbass, NRA, Utah, Newtown, KSL-TV, Granite School District, students  
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18220 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Dec 2012 at 5:19 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-18 05:56:08 PM  

Broktun: Firearm homicide is the leading cause of death for African Americans ages 1-44.

Source:

Nat'l Ctr. for Injury Prevention & Control, U.S. Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, Web-Based Injury Statistics Query & Reporting System (WISQARS) Leading Causes of Death Reports, 1999-2009, for National, Regional, and States (RESTRICTED), at http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/dataRestriction_lcd.html (last visited Mar. 8, 2012) (hereinafter WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports, 1999-2009;


Just ahead of pork chops and FEMA
 
2012-12-18 05:56:30 PM  

JesseL: What advice was that exactly subby?

The only thing they've said since Friday was:
"The NRA is made up of four million moms and dads, sons and daughters - and we were shocked, saddened and heartbroken by the news of the horrific and senseless murders in Newtown. Out of respect for the families, and as a matter of common de
cency, we have given time for mourning, prayer and a full investigation of the facts before commenting. The NRA is prepared to offer meaningful contributions to help make sure this never happens again."


Well, shiat. How farking uncouth can you get?
 
2012-12-18 05:58:17 PM  

Broktun: Firearm homicide is the leading cause of death for African Americans ages 1-44.

Source:

Nat'l Ctr. for Injury Prevention & Control, U.S. Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, Web-Based Injury Statistics Query & Reporting System (WISQARS) Leading Causes of Death Reports, 1999-2009, for National, Regional, and States (RESTRICTED), at http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/dataRestriction_lcd.html (last visited Mar. 8, 2012) (hereinafter WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports, 1999-2009;


African Americans are also a minority among legal gun owners.
Much of the problem is caused by poverty and the drug war.
 
2012-12-18 05:59:46 PM  

Rent Party: I'm going to go back to the Rent Party Policy that places 100% of the responsibility for guns on their legal owners. Whichever dipshiat left this gun in an unsecured state, allowing a sixth grader access to it, should be going to prison for two years.


i actually think this is close to an idea, but the failing point is when you take someone's gun and then shoot them with it. still, the idea is the deterrent to careless gun storage/access, not that its isntantly going to solve all gun crime... nothing ever will (nor any other kind of crime ever be solved).

mexicymru: do you really think you can guarantee that an 11 year old cannot figure out where your weapons are and how to get to them? I'd be hard-pressed to commit myself to that guarantee.


yeah thats kind of the point. i think "if you can't keep a gun secure from an 11 year old, you shouldn't own a gun" is pretty close to a factual statement. i think the more troubling case isnt the 11 year old, its the "my ex-wife knew the combination to my gun safe, gave my gun to a drug dealer, and locked it back up in the hopes i wouldnt know it was missing" case.
 
2012-12-18 06:01:30 PM  

Lochsteppe: This may sound extreme, but if you can't guarantee that


Contrary to the bravado, it is actually impossible to guarantee kids won't get ahold of one of your guns. You can decrease the odds to pretty low. But you can't decrease them to zero.
 
2012-12-18 06:01:49 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: The more guns in schools, the less likely someone will be injured or killed by one.


So what you are saying is when they were handing out brains, you were very polite and held the door for everyone instead. Thanks.

Subby: thanks for confirming my belief that any moron can get a submission green lit if they try hard enough
 
2012-12-18 06:03:43 PM  
 
2012-12-18 06:04:32 PM  
Interesting typo: "Horsley says school police are investing reports that the boy pointed the gun at another child's head." Investing or planting?

/tinfoil off
 
2012-12-18 06:05:30 PM  
Huh, I must have missed my NRA training circular with the talking points about sending 6th graders to school with firearms.

Could someone forward that one to me?
 
2012-12-18 06:06:39 PM  

stampylives: Rent Party: I'm going to go back to the Rent Party Policy that places 100% of the responsibility for guns on their legal owners. Whichever dipshiat left this gun in an unsecured state, allowing a sixth grader access to it, should be going to prison for two years.

i actually think this is close to an idea, but the failing point is when you take someone's gun and then shoot them with it.


Being assaulted and having the gun taken from your physical person by force shall be a positive defense against 1st Degree "Storing Your Gun Like an Asshole."


still, the idea is the deterrent to careless gun storage/access, not that its isntantly going to solve all gun crime... nothing ever will (nor any other kind of crime ever be solved).


Nothing is ever going to solve all of *any* kind of crime. That doesn't mean we should just throw up our hands and say "Fark it! Anarchy!"



yeah thats kind of the point. i think "if you can't keep a gun secure from an 11 year old, you shouldn't own a gun" is pretty close to a factual statement. i think the more troubling case isnt the 11 year old, its the "my ex-wife knew the combination to my gun safe, gave my gun to a drug dealer, and locked it back up in the hopes i wouldnt know it was missing" case.


In that case, you were irresponsible by allowing someone to know the combo to the gun safe that shouldn't. Six months in the poke for you with an additional three month ex-wife penalty.

Change the combo regularly, or get bio-metric locks.
 
2012-12-18 06:07:47 PM  

way south: Broktun: Firearm homicide is the leading cause of death for African Americans ages 1-44.

Source:

Nat'l Ctr. for Injury Prevention & Control, U.S. Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, Web-Based Injury Statistics Query & Reporting System (WISQARS) Leading Causes of Death Reports, 1999-2009, for National, Regional, and States (RESTRICTED), at http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/dataRestriction_lcd.html (last visited Mar. 8, 2012) (hereinafter WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports, 1999-2009;

African Americans are also a minority among legal gun owners.
Much of the problem is caused by poverty and the drug war.


And the culture that accepts it.
 
2012-12-18 06:07:50 PM  

JesseL: Rent Party: JesseL: Rent Party: I'm going to go back to the Rent Party Policy that places 100% of the responsibility for guns on their legal owners. Whichever dipshiat left this gun in an unsecured state, allowing a sixth grader access to it, should be going to prison for two years.

Start directing mandatory minimum sentencing at those "responsible" gun owners that are really "irresponsible assholes" and you'll find far fewer weapons in the hands of those that shouldn't have them.

Just be aware that that policy will have its own cost in lives.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-06-23/phoenix- te en-shoots-intruder/55782484/1

Every policy has it's cost in lives.

This is the cost of the current policy.

Link

Not all those firearms homicides were murder. The statistics linked include people killed in justifiable self-defense.


Really? Were you there? No? Then how could you confirm that? Oh, you can't, because in the section where firearm deaths are explained, the writer of the report makes no mention of self-defense being separate from the number. In fact, he categorizes two only: Suicide, and Homicide.

In any case, death by irresponsible moron with a gun (whether they shoot at themselves or others), is exactly that and in the end is counted by one number only.

// You did sound like an NRA supporter (you know, the brainwashed masses).
/// Nothing wrong with it, just get the facts right and RTFA.
 
2012-12-18 06:08:38 PM  

mittromneysdog: Lochsteppe: This may sound extreme, but if you can't guarantee that

Contrary to the bravado, it is actually impossible to guarantee kids won't get ahold of one of your guns. You can decrease the odds to pretty low. But you can't decrease them to zero.


Horseshiat. If you can't outsmart an 11 year old, don't own guns.
 
2012-12-18 06:11:06 PM  

Rent Party: mittromneysdog: Lochsteppe: This may sound extreme, but if you can't guarantee that

Contrary to the bravado, it is actually impossible to guarantee kids won't get ahold of one of your guns. You can decrease the odds to pretty low. But you can't decrease them to zero.

Horseshiat. If you can't outsmart an 11 year old, don't own guns.


If you think you can decrease the odds of your child getting ahold of your weapon to zero, then I'd say there's a better chance than you imagine that you can't outsmart an 11 year old.
 
2012-12-18 06:11:33 PM  

hdhale: So what you are saying is when they were handing out brains, you were very polite and held the door for everyone instead. Thanks.


Brainier than you are.

//better personality, too
 
2012-12-18 06:12:35 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: I always keep a loaded gun under my pillow. For protection. 


That dipshiat should have 15 years in prison to think about how he, and he alone, killed his son.


I might have to shoot an intruder.


And that asshole should do 10 years for firing at a target he hadn't identified.

Two more "irresponsible assholes" that would have described themselves as "responsible gun owners."
 
2012-12-18 06:13:38 PM  

mittromneysdog: Rent Party: mittromneysdog: Lochsteppe: This may sound extreme, but if you can't guarantee that

Contrary to the bravado, it is actually impossible to guarantee kids won't get ahold of one of your guns. You can decrease the odds to pretty low. But you can't decrease them to zero.

Horseshiat. If you can't outsmart an 11 year old, don't own guns.

If you think you can decrease the odds of your child getting ahold of your weapon to zero, then I'd say there's a better chance than you imagine that you can't outsmart an 11 year old.


I haven't ruled out the Earth being taken over by space aliens, either, but right now I'm going to bet it ain't gonna happen.
 
2012-12-18 06:13:48 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: I always keep a loaded gun under my pillow. For protection. 

I might have to shoot an intruder.


I actually saw a bumper sticker in Ann Arbor once that said "If guns are criminalized, only criminals will accidentally shoot their kids at 2am."

Taking glee in another family's tragedy and mocking them on a bumper sticker? Classy.
 
2012-12-18 06:17:02 PM  

Broktun: way south: Broktun: Firearm homicide is the leading cause of death for African Americans ages 1-44.

Source:

Nat'l Ctr. for Injury Prevention & Control, U.S. Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, Web-Based Injury Statistics Query & Reporting System (WISQARS) Leading Causes of Death Reports, 1999-2009, for National, Regional, and States (RESTRICTED), at http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/dataRestriction_lcd.html (last visited Mar. 8, 2012) (hereinafter WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports, 1999-2009;

African Americans are also a minority among legal gun owners.
Much of the problem is caused by poverty and the drug war.

And the culture that accepts it.


Painfully and unfortunately true.

Being a black gun owner myself, I try to preach the virtues of responsible ownership. But even on an island where the population must be 80% black or Latino, at least half of the gun owners I know are still white.

/But there's no shortage of proof that illegal guns are common.
/I guess its because they are so easy to get, people who aren't in it for the sport simply don't bother with the paperwork.
/In case anyone's wondering its a stupidly large amount of bureaucracy compared to the states (police chief must approve all licenses) and yes the murder rate is absurdly high.
 
2012-12-18 06:18:16 PM  

Broktun: way south: Broktun: Firearm homicide is the leading cause of death for African Americans ages 1-44.

Source:

Nat'l Ctr. for Injury Prevention & Control, U.S. Centers for Disease Control & Prevention, Web-Based Injury Statistics Query & Reporting System (WISQARS) Leading Causes of Death Reports, 1999-2009, for National, Regional, and States (RESTRICTED), at http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/dataRestriction_lcd.html (last visited Mar. 8, 2012) (hereinafter WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports, 1999-2009;

African Americans are also a minority among legal gun owners.
Much of the problem is caused by poverty and the drug war.

And the culture that accepts it.


I don't accept it but I can't publicly state that since the left would no doubt label me a racist-homophobe-anti Semite-bigot-fascist-Nazi-whatever other buzzwords they like to use.
 
2012-12-18 06:18:48 PM  
fyi,
for those of you that make fun of florida.
well, hate to break it to you
the rest of the world feels the same way about your entire country.
 
2012-12-18 06:19:11 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: Taking glee in another family's tragedy and mocking them on a bumper sticker? Classy.


Bumper stickers generally just kind of go for it.

Off topic, I saw one the other day that simply said "CITIZENS AGAINST DON HENLEY". I lol'd.
 
2012-12-18 06:23:41 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: The more guns in schools, the less likely someone will be injured or killed by one.


"The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."
 
2012-12-18 06:25:56 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: tallguywithglasseson: The more guns in schools, the less likely someone will be injured or killed by one.

"The closer we are to danger, the further we are from harm."


"In the game of chess you can never let your adversary see your pieces"
 
2012-12-18 06:30:52 PM  
 
2012-12-18 06:36:12 PM  

illannoyin: Link

Link


So you think that 11-year-old was mentally ill and couldn't get the help he needed because the ACLU is bad?
 
2012-12-18 06:36:57 PM  
Sorry, the 2nd Amendment doesn't state that the you have to be of a certain age to carry a weapon.

STOP TAKING AWAY HIS RIGHTS
 
2012-12-18 06:39:41 PM  
Is this boy not a citizen?

What I want to know is, why don't we follow the constitution? The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Arms, not firearms. So bazookas and hand grenades and mortars and artillery.

And the constitution does not say "except in these cases." It says shall not be infringed.

If this kid wants to take a pistol to school, that's his constitutional right. If I want to take a bazooka onto a plane, that's my right. It's right there in the constitution. No exceptions listed.

I'm sick of the weaselly NRA talking about limited rights when we have the right to carry arms without restriction. I can carry grenades into a church. I can carry mines into Congress. I can mount a 50 caliber machine gun on my car. Let freedom ring.

Why are we denied our obvious, plainly-stated constitutional rights?
 
2012-12-18 06:43:21 PM  
Football kills more kids each year than school shootings. Perhaps we should ban that too.
 
2012-12-18 06:43:57 PM  

RoxtarRyan: Sorry, the 2nd Amendment doesn't state that the you have to be of a certain age to carry a weapon.

STOP TAKING AWAY HIS RIGHTS


I tried using my first amendment rights against my Mother when I was twelve.
I'm not quite sure what happened next, but I woke up on the floor with a palm print on the side of my face...

/Apparently the kings rules are in effect till you're old enough to get a job.
/Farking tyrants.
 
2012-12-18 06:43:58 PM  

mittromneysdog: Lochsteppe: This may sound extreme, but if you can't guarantee that

Contrary to the bravado, it is actually impossible to guarantee kids won't get ahold of one of your guns. You can decrease the odds to pretty low. But you can't decrease them to zero.


You're better off making them respect and fear the gun than never letting them see it, anyway, and to practice on it occasionally when they get old enough. The novelty factor is where most accidental deaths come from.
 
2012-12-18 06:47:09 PM  
Everyone in this state is a friggen' NRA gun-nut.....
 
2012-12-18 06:47:38 PM  
Horsley tells KSL-TV that an unloaded gun and ammunition were found

Unloaded?? What good is that going to do when a crazed gunman comes for you?
 
2012-12-18 06:51:17 PM  

edgesrealm: Yes, because that's what we all should do: follow up a moment of great tragedy with moments of great stupidity, which then lead to more moments of great tragedy.

// Looks like this kid's Wheel of Morality stopped a long time ago.


Hey, it worked when we went into Afghanistan didn't it!
 
2012-12-18 06:52:38 PM  

powtard: We really need a Utard tag. There are nearly just as many stories about Utahns as there are Floridians anymore.


That's not how you're supposed to use the word "anymore", hillbilly.
 
2012-12-18 06:55:26 PM  

edgesrealm: This is the cost of the current policy.

Link

Not all those firearms homicides were murder. The statistics linked include people killed in justifiable self-defense.

Really? Were you there? No? Then how could you confirm that? Oh, you can't, because in the section where firearm deaths are explained, the writer of the report makes no mention of self-defense being separate from the number. In fact, he categorizes two only: Suicide, and Homicide.

In any case, death by irresponsible moron with a gun (whether they shoot at themselves or others), is exactly that and in the end is counted by one number only.

// You did sound like an NRA supporter (you know, the brainwashed masses).
/// Nothing wrong with it, just get the facts right and RTFA.


People killed by other people are always homicides - whether it's illegal (and thus murder or manslaughter) or legal (such as justified self defense or a police shooting).

/I am an NRA supporter.
//Life member since 86.
 
2012-12-18 06:55:43 PM  

jimpapa: fyi,
for those of you that make fun of florida.
well, hate to break it to you
the rest of the world feels the same way about your entire country.



That's why we're going to take it over and make everybody STFU. Starting with our northern neighbors.
 
2012-12-18 07:06:53 PM  
HERO tag is bound and gagged? Look at all the hyper-paranoid furor that the media has made of this and you're calling a 6th grader a Dumbass? There are far bigger dumbasses in the world...

/checked mirror
//whew!
//Lots more money for mental health issues needed
 
2012-12-18 07:12:36 PM  

Rent Party: As a parent of an 11 year old, and a gun owner, I can state categorically that yes, I can guarantee he doesn't have access to them. That is my responsibility. If an 11 year old can "figure out where they are and get access to them" then you're doing it wrong. If I ever doubted my ability to assert positive control over my guns, I would get rid of them.


Good for you. Of course, that means he's simply channeled all his energies into a much softer target, namely defeating your attempts to keep him from porn.

You're fine as long as you don't stash your porn in your gun safe. No force in the world could keep him from it then.
 
2012-12-18 07:16:45 PM  

JesseL: edgesrealm: This is the cost of the current policy.

Link

Not all those firearms homicides were murder. The statistics linked include people killed in justifiable self-defense.

Really? Were you there? No? Then how could you confirm that? Oh, you can't, because in the section where firearm deaths are explained, the writer of the report makes no mention of self-defense being separate from the number. In fact, he categorizes two only: Suicide, and Homicide.

In any case, death by irresponsible moron with a gun (whether they shoot at themselves or others), is exactly that and in the end is counted by one number only.

// You did sound like an NRA supporter (you know, the brainwashed masses).
/// Nothing wrong with it, just get the facts right and RTFA.

People killed by other people are always homicides - whether it's illegal (and thus murder or manslaughter) or legal (such as justified self defense or a police shooting).

/I am an NRA supporter.
//Life member since 86.


Total Homicides (2009 CDC numbers): 16,799 (11,493 by firearm)
Total Justifiable Homicides: (2005 BJS numbers): 192 by private citizens, 343 by police.
 
2012-12-18 07:17:05 PM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: vegasj


Random Anonymous Blackmail: We should lock up all people with Asperger Syndrome because they could be violent.

Or at least those on antipsychotic drugs

Wasn't his mom a doomsday prepper!!!

CALL THE POLICE.... WHAGARBBBBLL


The only TRUE solution is mass euthanasia of the human race.

/from orbit
//only way to be sure
 
2012-12-18 07:19:05 PM  
The thought of some six year old pulling out a gun and nailing a retard like the one in Conn is simply beautiful. If only it could have gone down that way.
 
2012-12-18 07:21:43 PM  
NRA is a group that protects the right to bear arms but most Farkers say they are evil because the founding fathers only meant things like muskets and knives.

And because weapons such as assault weapons didn't exist at the time, they shouldn't be covered by the 2nd Amendment and that all gun owners should be registered with the government.

Am I understanding this correctly?

If so, I'm all for it.

But then Facebook, Twitter, Fark etc. should hand over all social media registration because things like the internet shouldn't be covered under the 1st Amendment because it didn't exist when the Bill of Rights were drafted.

Freedom of Speech should only be protected by what you can shout out in the town square or write with a quill pen and parchment.
 
2012-12-18 07:25:43 PM  

Agent Nick Fury: NRA is a group that protects the right to bear arms but most Farkers say they are evil because the founding fathers only meant things like muskets and knives.

And because weapons such as assault weapons didn't exist at the time, they shouldn't be covered by the 2nd Amendment and that all gun owners should be registered with the government.

Am I understanding this correctly?

If so, I'm all for it.

But then Facebook, Twitter, Fark etc. should hand over all social media registration because things like the internet shouldn't be covered under the 1st Amendment because it didn't exist when the Bill of Rights were drafted.

Freedom of Speech should only be protected by what you can shout out in the town square or write with a quill pen and parchment.


If Trolling: 9/10
If Not Trolling: 9/10

The logic is sound, if not the principle
 
2012-12-18 07:26:26 PM  
Kearns? Why am I not surprised?
 
2012-12-18 07:27:52 PM  
If your kid can remove a gun from your home without your knowledge, you fail as a gun owner and a parent.

I don't understand why the purchase of a gun doesn't require any kind of training or education... Thank goodness the kid didn't decide to play with a loaded gun and blow his out his friend's head off.

I think at the very least you should have to take a safety workshop and pass a test and if you're boneheaded enough to not secure your firearm and your kid gets caught with it, you lose your gun privileges for awhile. Same if you accidentally discharge it and end up shooting someone. Why not? If you drive like an asshole and fark up enough, you lose your driving privileges. Both a car and a gun are potentially deadly and both require knowledge and skills to operate safely, yet only one is closely regulated (and I'd argue that for most people, driving is far more necessary than owning a gun.)
 
2012-12-18 07:27:57 PM  
Man, this is depressing.
 
2012-12-18 07:30:19 PM  

JesseL: Rent Party: I'm going to go back to the Rent Party Policy that places 100% of the responsibility for guns on their legal owners. Whichever dipshiat left this gun in an unsecured state, allowing a sixth grader access to it, should be going to prison for two years.

Start directing mandatory minimum sentencing at those "responsible" gun owners that are really "irresponsible assholes" and you'll find far fewer weapons in the hands of those that shouldn't have them.

Just be aware that that policy will have its own cost in lives.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-06-23/phoenix- te en-shoots-intruder/55782484/1


JesseL, I think you're one of the more reasonable gun enthusiasts on this site, but you are jumping to the conclusion that's most convenient to your philosophy here.

Read that story from a neutral perspective and you can't definitively say what would've happened if the kid just hid with his siblings, or ran out the back door to a neighbor's house. The intruders could've just robbed the place and left without harming any of them. I'm glad it worked out the way it did, but IMO, that article does nothing to support your claim that a policy that imposes consequences for adults who fail to keep guns out of the hands of kids "will have its own cost in lives."

And who's to say that such a policy couldn't be worded to allow for castle doctrine cases? But if a kid shot someone who had a right to be there, such as a utility meter reader or someone like that, then Mom and Dad should be penalized just as if the kid stole the gun out of their bedroom, brought it to school and shot up some classmates.

Until we the people can have reasonable discussions among ourselves about serious topics like this, expect politicians and the media to do what they do best...leverage tragedies to further their own agendas.
 
2012-12-18 07:30:22 PM  

Rent Party: I'm going to go back to the Rent Party Policy that places 100% of the responsibility for guns on their legal owners. Whichever dipshiat left this gun in an unsecured state, allowing a sixth grader access to it, should be going to prison for two years.


Wouldn't have helped in the Sandy case, though, because he kind of *killed* the legal owner (his mom).
 
2012-12-18 07:33:48 PM  

Felgraf: Rent Party: I'm going to go back to the Rent Party Policy that places 100% of the responsibility for guns on their legal owners. Whichever dipshiat left this gun in an unsecured state, allowing a sixth grader access to it, should be going to prison for two years.

Wouldn't have helped in the Sandy case, though, because he kind of *killed* the legal owner (his mom).


Wouldn't have helped? What did he kill her with?

We might infer, then, that she did not exercise proper care over those very same weapons. If she hadn't have been guilty of "Storing Guns Like as Asshole" he wouldn't have had access to them in the first place.
 
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