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(Some Guy)   Arkansas cops in full SWAT gear with AR-15s hanging around their neck will be deployed for routine foot patrol. "If you're out walking, we're going to stop you, ask you why you're out walking, and check for your ID"   ( paragoulddailypress.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Arkansas, SWAT team, SWAT gear, visual routine, Paragould Mayor Mike Gaskill, street crimes, high crimes, police chiefs  
•       •       •

26136 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Dec 2012 at 8:25 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-18 08:57:55 PM  
i could care less if they posted riot patrolmen every block.

but checking for papers simply for walking?

step 1: lawyer on speed dial
step 2: go for walk
step 3: $$$$

constitutions pretty clear on that one.....
 
2012-12-18 08:57:58 PM  
Sonce I have nothing to hide, knock yourselves out.
 
2012-12-18 08:58:38 PM  

BronyMedic: revrendjim: Note to self: Avoid Arkansas.

You really think I'm kidding on this one.


From your link:

Officers had stopped a truck that Mr. Carter was a passenger in after someone called 911 to report that it was being driven with its headlights off

Who the fark calls 911 to report a driver with no headlights?
 
2012-12-18 08:58:52 PM  
So Soviet Russia is now in Arkansas?
 
2012-12-18 08:59:01 PM  

BunkoSquad: Hmmm, I wonder if there will be a racial element to enforcement of this



Very little; the town is 98% white.
 
2012-12-18 08:59:09 PM  
This thread is depressing as hell. I'm heartened by the fact that the truly outrageous stories, like beating a guy for failure to produce ID, seem to have all happened in the 80s.
 
2012-12-18 08:59:24 PM  

Bathia_Mapes: BronyMedic: thomps: uh, i don't think that's how probable cause works.

Reading Arkansas State law, you don't need probible cause to do a stop and identify. 5-71-213 provides that anyone suspected of loitering in an area can be stopped and asked to identify themselves with their State ID.

(a) A person commits the offense of loitering if he or she:

(1) Lingers, remains, or prowls in a public place...


Bathia_Mapes: That's all fine and good, except for the fact that taking a walk isn't loitering. I can't speak for everyone, but when I'm taking a walk I'm not lingering.


Better hope your walk doesn't look like prowling.
 
2012-12-18 08:59:51 PM  

timujin: Relatively Obscure: I guess I'd end up getting my ass kicked handily and arrested :(

I'm a pretty cooperative and compliant kind of dude, but no.

This.

"If you're out walking, we're going to stop you, ask why you're out walking, check for your ID."

And I'm going to say, "because I can" and "No, you can't see my ID"

And then get my ass kicked handily and arrested, I'm sure.


My boyfriend and his 6 year old daughter were in a public place, waiting for the seabus, when two cops came up and asked him what he was doing. He said "waiting for the seabus", they asked him for prof of payment, which is not their job but the job of Transit Police, after some back and forth he produced his bus pass. They then threatened to revoke his pass because it was not signed and he may have stolen it from someone or somewhere(You DO NOT have to sign your monthly bus pass, that is straight from the mouth of Transit), they then started to harass him to produce ID, and accused him of loitering, even though he was waiting at a public quay for public transit. He refused to show his ID, they then started asking him where the mother was, and was this indeed, his child? They then threatened to take his child down to child services if he did not leave the area, so he called their bluff, and eventually bought a $2.50 pass for the bus, because they wouldn't let him get on with the monthly pass he already possessed, got one of the officers badge numbers, and left when the seabus arrived. He then filed a complaint with the RCMP and a few weeks ago received 2 personal apologies from the officers, who now have a blip on both their records , which I want to frame for him.
/CSS
 
2012-12-18 09:00:03 PM  

iron_city_ap: Sonce I have nothing to hide, knock yourselves out.


i49.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-18 09:00:06 PM  

GAT_00: The_Original_Roxtar: GAT_00: This seems rational. Is this the kind of freedom the NRA is fighting for?

the NRA is fighting for your right to own a weapon... so when these jackbooted thugs decide they're tired of "walking the streets" and "asking for ID" and decide to just come in and make themselves at home, you and for fellow citizens have some recourse other than "bend over and take it"


So you're saying the NRA is fighting for your right to shoot police officers?



Absolutely! With fully-automatic, .50-caliber machine guns and mortars!
 
2012-12-18 09:00:56 PM  
Sweet Zombie Jesus some of those comments are just awful...
 
2012-12-18 09:01:03 PM  

fknra: i could care less if they posted riot patrolmen every block.

but checking for papers simply for walking?

step 1: lawyer on speed dial
step 2: go for walk
step 3: $$$$

constitutions pretty clear on that one.....


Just make sure to pull your phone out slowly so he doesn't mistake it for a gat.
 
2012-12-18 09:01:11 PM  
Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:05 PM CST
Paragould police have canceled the remaining two town hall meetings that had been planned to discuss crime in Paragould after extensive public outcry over the department's controversial proposal to lower the crime rate.
 
2012-12-18 09:01:36 PM  
Strength through unity. Unity through faith. Arkansas prevails!
 
2012-12-18 09:02:08 PM  

Vectron: Paragould, Arkansas has only 25,000 people, but is one of the most dangerous towns in America.

According to statistics from city-data.com, Paragould has had a property crime index rating that is more than double the national average since 2007. Rapes, burglaries, thefts and assaults are also above the national average.

[www.opposingviews.com image 301x251]

So what is going on there?


Police suck at the job? /Alternately cops committing the crimes!
 
2012-12-18 09:02:59 PM  

Diogenes: If you're not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about.

Accepting lamenting the death of the Constitution and what it used to be like to be an American.


if you're out walking the dog, you're not doing anything wrong. still doesn't give the cops the right to act like pricks. how many crimes will happen while cops are harrassing citizens who they know are just minding their business? what happens when a cop doesn't believe someone is just walking their dog or walking to 7-11 or anything else benign? where's the ACLU?
 
2012-12-18 09:03:43 PM  
Yay America!!!
 
2012-12-18 09:04:42 PM  

BronyMedic: Meth and the drug trade.


They should make that stuff illegal and ban it.

 
2012-12-18 09:05:58 PM  
If I'm walking around Arkansas, the police should stop me. Because I've been kidnapped and drugged.
Seriously, f*ck that place.
 
2012-12-18 09:06:05 PM  
This is your regular reminder that you don't get to pick and choose amongst your favorite constitutional rights.

If you are angry about incursions upon your 1st and 3rd Amendment rights, then don't turn around and try to support incursions upon others' 2nd Amendment rights.

The Constitution - We the People.
 
2012-12-18 09:06:35 PM  
Well I know this can't be happening in Arkansas, because guns are really popular there, and the gun lobby told me that tyranny can't be imposed on an armed population. The story is clearly wrong.
 
2012-12-18 09:06:53 PM  
Arkanazis
 
2012-12-18 09:07:37 PM  
first they can stop this article and ask it why its text keeps jumping around.
 
2012-12-18 09:07:48 PM  

GAT_00: This seems rational. Is this the kind of freedom the NRA is fighting for?


If you knew anything about the origins of the 2nd Amendment, you'd know this is precisely what its authors were hoping to prevent.
 
2012-12-18 09:08:13 PM  

Lenny_da_Hog: Similar happened to me in Houston in the early eighties -- not a small town.


Harris County Sheriffs Department had a reputation for thuggery during the 70's and 80's. A few lawsuits have mellowed them out some, I think, but I haven't had any interaction with them for years.
 
2012-12-18 09:08:28 PM  
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, because Fark hates cops regardless of what they do.  
 
I'm a cop, I'm also a member of our SWAT team.  The idea behind a SWAT team is to respond to those types of calls where there is a higher likelihood of violence or armed resistance to law enforcement.  Hostage rescue, high risk warrants, barricaded persons, sniper situations, dignitary protection, active shooters, etc are all things we train for.  My team operates in a very low key manner.  Most of our citizens know we're there, and see us as a necessary component of the public safety department.  Overuse of a team is bad, just as underuse of a team is.  There's a happy medium that needs to be established.  You don't want to use your team as a routine warrant service team, and you also don't want to NOT use your team when its use would be appropriate.
 
The police chief of this agency needs to be replaced, and quickly.  This is a gross misuse of your team, and if the officers are behaving as this paper is reporting they will be, they need to go as well.  If a person is simply out walking their dog in a high crime area, that's not an indicator of crime.  If a person happens to live in a high crime area and goes for a job, they should be free to do so without interruption by the police.
 
This department has clearly never heard of Terry v. Ohio, which states that people cannot be detained unless an officer has reasonable suspicion that they are, have, or will commit a crime.  Simply walking in a neighborhood with your dog, or taking a stroll after dinner with your wife, does not rise to the level of reasonable suspicion.
 
Furthermore, having your officers deployed in tactical gear, carrying carbines is an unreasonable show of force to combat what doesn't appear to be an increase in violent crime.  Nor, does it seem, is the increase in force and presence the natural reaction to a specific threat of violence.  If they'd received intelligence that there was going to be a school shooting, then it would be appropriate to increase police presence.
 
For instance, two years ago our local high school was the subject of a very specific, very plausible threat of multiple shooters entering the school through various doors.  Our team was deployed to the school, in tac gear, and placed at entry points where bags were searched and portable metal detectors were utilized.  The (two) would be shooters saw this, and left the scene in their vehicle, only to be stopped by an alert patrol officer who arrested them after smelling marijuana in the vehicle, and locating the firearms.  THAT would be an appropriate instance where a SWAT team might be activated in a less-traditional role.
 
I certainly hope there's follow-up here and the Chief decides his course of action is inappropriate and figures out another crime-suppression idea.
 
We in the law enforcement field get a bad rap a lot of the time, and a lot of the time its deserved.  These types of heavy handed tactics are one of the reasons why.  We must find a way to balance the community oriented service that's so important, with the obvious need for (in some instances) a para-military type response to very specific incidents to preserve life and public safety.  THIS is not one of those instances.
 
Flame away.
 
2012-12-18 09:09:04 PM  

mittromneysdog: Well I know this can't be happening in Arkansas, because guns are really popular there, and the gun lobby told me that tyranny can't be imposed on an armed population. The story is clearly wrong.


Careful what you wish for, somebody who's already "on edge" might just decide to prove you wrong and light this powder keg.

/This is starting to get surreal
 
2012-12-18 09:09:10 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, because Fark hates cops regardless of what they do.  
 
I'm a cop, I'm also a member of our SWAT team.  The idea behind a SWAT team is to respond to those types of calls where there is a higher likelihood of violence or armed resistance to law enforcement.  Hostage rescue, high risk warrants, barricaded persons, sniper situations, dignitary protection, active shooters, etc are all things we train for.  My team operates in a very low key manner.  Most of our citizens know we're there, and see us as a necessary component of the public safety department.  Overuse of a team is bad, just as underuse of a team is.  There's a happy medium that needs to be established.  You don't want to use your team as a routine warrant service team, and you also don't want to NOT use your team when its use would be appropriate.
 
The police chief of this agency needs to be replaced, and quickly.  This is a gross misuse of your team, and if the officers are behaving as this paper is reporting they will be, they need to go as well.  If a person is simply out walking their dog in a high crime area, that's not an indicator of crime.  If a person happens to live in a high crime area and goes for a job, they should be free to do so without interruption by the police.
 
This department has clearly never heard of Terry v. Ohio, which states that people cannot be detained unless an officer has reasonable suspicion that they are, have, or will commit a crime.  Simply walking in a neighborhood with your dog, or taking a stroll after dinner with your wife, does not rise to the level of reasonable suspicion.
 
Furthermore, having your officers deployed in tactical gear, carrying carbines is an unreasonable show of force to combat what doesn't appear to be an increase in violent crime.  Nor, does it seem, is the increase in force and presence the natural reaction to a specific threat of violence.  If they'd received intelligence that there was going to be a school sh ...


tl;dr
 
2012-12-18 09:09:38 PM  

GAT_00: So you're saying the NRA is fighting for your right to shoot police officers?


If a cop invades a home without a warrant or just cause, I'd say that's the risk they're taking.
 
2012-12-18 09:10:03 PM  

BronyMedic: It's the Meth problem there. It's gotten really bad in the last few months.


legalize it already.
 
2012-12-18 09:10:08 PM  

Vectron: Paragould, Arkansas has only 25,000 people, but is one of the most dangerous towns in America.

According to statistics from city-data.com, Paragould has had a property crime index rating that is more than double the national average since 2007. Rapes, burglaries, thefts and assaults are also above the national average.

[www.opposingviews.com image 301x251]

So what is going on there?


Rapes, burglaries, thefts and assaults, apparently.

/ probably not the answer you were looking for
 
2012-12-18 09:10:20 PM  

brigid_fitch: Stop and identify is not stop and show ID. There was a case from Nevada where SCOTUS said cops could ask your name and you had to give your real name. Link



"if the statute first required reasonable and articulable suspicion of criminal involvement. "
 
2012-12-18 09:10:38 PM  
Slightly different but here is an example. I'm flying to parents house in NY for the holidays. I bought an extra gift for my mother. Something easily slid into my suitcase. However, I'm too afraid of the TSA lifting said gift if it was in my checked bags so I'm shipping it separately.

Where is America? This can't be it!

/Gift was only $20
//Still don't trust them.
 
2012-12-18 09:11:20 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: Flame away.


Well, first of all you are a f... actually, you are the wor... wait, everything you said is correct. Jerk!!
 
2012-12-18 09:11:38 PM  

Happy Hours: Who the fark calls 911 to report a driver with no headlights?


Probably not 911 worthy, but it's one of the signs of a drunk driver.
 
2012-12-18 09:11:48 PM  

utah dude: BronyMedic: It's the Meth problem there. It's gotten really bad in the last few months.

legalize it already.


i'd rather a bounty on meth heads
 
2012-12-18 09:12:20 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: Flame away.


Too reasonable to flame, sorry.
 
2012-12-18 09:12:22 PM  
Yeah, there is a reason Adolph did not consult an attorney. He might want to read Terry v. Ohio for starters...
 
2012-12-18 09:12:38 PM  
Most people are naturally find actions like those of the AUTHORATAYS in TFA repugnant, nauseating, repulsive.
 
Same goes for things like the TSA's actions at airports, the wholesale confiscation of firearms, warrantless searches, wiretaps, etc.
 
Fortunately for the Authoritarians, incidents like 9-11 and Sandy Hooks actually inspire the stupefied public to BEG them to take our rights, our freedoms, our dignity, and our liberty.
 
Lucky break for the Authoritarians, no?
 
/Suckers
 
2012-12-18 09:12:45 PM  

Vectron: Tuesday, December 18, 2012 12:05 PM CST
Paragould police have canceled the remaining two town hall meetings that had been planned to discuss crime in Paragould after extensive public outcry over the department's controversial proposal to lower the crime rate.


Wow.... Their response to people not like their plans is to keep people from telling them that they don't like their plans?
 
2012-12-18 09:13:46 PM  

You are Borg: timujin: Relatively Obscure: I guess I'd end up getting my ass kicked handily and arrested :(

I'm a pretty cooperative and compliant kind of dude, but no.

This.

"If you're out walking, we're going to stop you, ask why you're out walking, check for your ID."

And I'm going to say, "because I can" and "No, you can't see my ID"

And then get my ass kicked handily and arrested, I'm sure.

My boyfriend and his 6 year old daughter were in a public place, waiting for the seabus, when two cops came up and asked him what he was doing. He said "waiting for the seabus", they asked him for prof of payment, which is not their job but the job of Transit Police, after some back and forth he produced his bus pass. They then threatened to revoke his pass because it was not signed and he may have stolen it from someone or somewhere(You DO NOT have to sign your monthly bus pass, that is straight from the mouth of Transit), they then started to harass him to produce ID, and accused him of loitering, even though he was waiting at a public quay for public transit. He refused to show his ID, they then started asking him where the mother was, and was this indeed, his child? They then threatened to take his child down to child services if he did not leave the area, so he called their bluff, and eventually bought a $2.50 pass for the bus, because they wouldn't let him get on with the monthly pass he already possessed, got one of the officers badge numbers, and left when the seabus arrived. He then filed a complaint with the RCMP and a few weeks ago received 2 personal apologies from the officers, who now have a blip on both their records , which I want to frame for him.
/CSS


From your profile: "It's hard to beat living in BC and on Vancouver Island."

Doesn't sound like it, though.
 
2012-12-18 09:14:44 PM  

Raspil: Diogenes: If you're not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about.

Accepting lamenting the death of the Constitution and what it used to be like to be an American.

if you're out walking the dog, you're not doing anything wrong. still doesn't give the cops the right to act like pricks. how many crimes will happen while cops are harrassing citizens who they know are just minding their business? what happens when a cop doesn't believe someone is just walking their dog or walking to 7-11 or anything else benign? where's the ACLU?

 
 
When they came for the ACLU, I said nothing, because I didn't have A CLUe.
 
2012-12-18 09:15:21 PM  
As long as we don't have to quarter them in any homes in the city, i guess this is on the up and up.
 
2012-12-18 09:15:25 PM  
Man, you red states sure love your freedoms.
 
2012-12-18 09:16:15 PM  

jayhawk88: Someone please tell me you can find the stats on what kind of massive, shocking, unheard-of increase in crime a town of 26k could have, that would make cops walking around with AR-15's seem like a reasonable solution.


Remember, meth users - drive to where you're going. Bum a ride, steal a car - but, for the love of all that is holy, don't walk!
 
2012-12-18 09:16:18 PM  
Meanwhile,the world despises America for it's freedoms.
 
2012-12-18 09:16:24 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, because Fark hates cops regardless of what they do.  
 
I'm a cop, I'm also a member of our SWAT team.  The idea behind a SWAT team is to respond to those types of calls where there is a higher likelihood of violence or armed resistance to law enforcement.  Hostage rescue, high risk warrants, barricaded persons, sniper situations, dignitary protection, active shooters, etc are all things we train for.  My team operates in a very low key manner.  Most of our citizens know we're there, and see us as a necessary component of the public safety department.  Overuse of a team is bad, just as underuse of a team is.  There's a happy medium that needs to be established.  You don't want to use your team as a routine warrant service team, and you also don't want to NOT use your team when its use would be appropriate.
 
The police chief of this agency needs to be replaced, and quickly.  This is a gross misuse of your team, and if the officers are behaving as this paper is reporting they will be, they need to go as well.  If a person is simply out walking their dog in a high crime area, that's not an indicator of crime.  If a person happens to live in a high crime area and goes for a job, they should be free to do so without interruption by the police.
 
This department has clearly never heard of Terry v. Ohio, which states that people cannot be detained unless an officer has reasonable suspicion that they are, have, or will commit a crime.  Simply walking in a neighborhood with your dog, or taking a stroll after dinner with your wife, does not rise to the level of reasonable suspicion.
 
Furthermore, having your officers deployed in tactical gear, carrying carbines is an unreasonable show of force to combat what doesn't appear to be an increase in violent crime.  Nor, does it seem, is the increase in force and presence the natural reaction to a specific threat of violence.  If they'd received intelligence that there was going to be a school sh ...


nah, a lot of cops really are good people who go into it to help folks and just get jaded dealing with bs

still, many others are jack-booted fascists compensating for tiny penises/daddy issues

I just wish more cops would live in 'high crime' areas and get to know folks...talk to them...instead of the current siege mentality of so many places in America where an armed gestapo rolls in treating everyone like dirt.

just my two cents, man

can I have a donut?
 
2012-12-18 09:16:32 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: Flame away.


Okay.

Ummmm... go eat a donut... ?

Got nothing.
 
2012-12-18 09:17:13 PM  

Coastalgrl: Slightly different but here is an example. I'm flying to parents house in NY for the holidays. I bought an extra gift for my mother. Something easily slid into my suitcase. However, I'm too afraid of the TSA lifting said gift if it was in my checked bags so I'm shipping it separately.

Where is America? This can't be it!

/Gift was only $20
//Still don't trust them.


They aren't really that into vibrators.
 
2012-12-18 09:17:16 PM  

Honest Bender: Seeing as how I live in California, the conversation would go as such:

Police: "Why are you out walking around?"
Me: "Because it's not against the law."
Police: "Can I see your ID?"
Me: "No."

Police: *any additional questions*
Me: "If I'm not under arrest, I'm ending this conversation and walking away. If I am under arrest, I want my lawyer."

/The end.


You sound white.
 
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