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(BBC)   All aboard: First steam train in over 100 years runs on London Underground for a test run in preparation for the 150 year anniversary of the first London Tube journey   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 31
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2783 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Dec 2012 at 10:57 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-18 10:59:44 AM  
www.hackcollege.com


hotrink
 
2012-12-18 10:59:45 AM  
I find it odd to have Elton John commission the first Tube run.
 
2012-12-18 10:59:45 AM  
"cough", What could go "cough cough" wrong?
 
mjg
2012-12-18 11:03:50 AM  
You'd think the the steam/smoke would mess with the electrical components of the modern tube.
 
2012-12-18 11:13:19 AM  
Meanwhile, in the sidebar (you'll have to read it twice):
news.bbcimg.co.ukSwiss choose 94-year-old for Eurovision
 
2012-12-18 11:14:22 AM  
I'll bet this will cause confusion and delay.
 
2012-12-18 11:14:27 AM  

Nothing To See Here: I find it odd to have Elton John commission the first Tube run.


wink/wink
 
2012-12-18 11:17:51 AM  
This is cool! I'm going to be in London a week after the steam trip. Wish I were there to see the real thing.
 
2012-12-18 11:33:37 AM  
Brits love their trains and rightfully so their entire infrastructure is based around them.

Still a sucker the BR Blue era.. Clag, clag, and more clag
 
2012-12-18 11:36:07 AM  

mjg: You'd think the the steam/smoke would mess with the electrical components of the modern tube.


That's kind of what I was thinking. I am impressed/surprised that the modern tube thing has the kind of ventilation needed to deal with the steam from this thing, along with the smoke/soot/exhaust generated by whatever they are using to generate the steam.
 
2012-12-18 11:43:29 AM  

mechgreg: mjg: You'd think the the steam/smoke would mess with the electrical components of the modern tube.

That's kind of what I was thinking. I am impressed/surprised that the modern tube thing has the kind of ventilation needed to deal with the steam from this thing, along with the smoke/soot/exhaust generated by whatever they are using to generate the steam.


It may well be the original ventilation from the 19thC.
 
2012-12-18 11:51:14 AM  

mechgreg: mjg: You'd think the the steam/smoke would mess with the electrical components of the modern tube.

That's kind of what I was thinking. I am impressed/surprised that the modern tube thing has the kind of ventilation needed to deal with the steam from this thing, along with the smoke/soot/exhaust generated by whatever they are using to generate the steam.


I'd hazard a guess they have better ventilation than when steam trains were the norm.
 
2012-12-18 11:52:24 AM  
"This video contains Flash Photography"
It also contains a crappy too damn long advert
"click"
 
2012-12-18 11:58:14 AM  

Happy Hours: mechgreg: mjg: You'd think the the steam/smoke would mess with the electrical components of the modern tube.

That's kind of what I was thinking. I am impressed/surprised that the modern tube thing has the kind of ventilation needed to deal with the steam from this thing, along with the smoke/soot/exhaust generated by whatever they are using to generate the steam.

I'd hazard a guess they have better ventilation than when steam trains were the norm.


Probably, although the ventilation systems for especially for the stations back in those days was probably just telling the poor bastards in the stations to suck it up and that if they didn't like inhaling fumes they should just get rich and go buy a country estate. As far as today goes, considering the trains are electric, I would be surprised to find out the ventilation systems were designed to handle the additional exhaust and make-up air required in the event they were running steam trains. I do this kind of design for a living and the ventilation requirements anywhere where you are doing any kind of combustion are significantly higher than any place where there isn't combustion.
 
2012-12-18 11:59:51 AM  
userserve-ak.last.fm
♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
You choose your leaders and place your trust
As their lies wash you down and their promises rust
You'll see kidney machines replaced by rockets and guns
And the public wants what the public gets
But I don't get what this society wants
I'm going underground, (going underground)
Well the brass bands play and feet start to pound
Going underground, (going underground)
♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
 
2012-12-18 12:01:21 PM  

styckx: Brits love their trains and rightfully so their entire infrastructure is based around them.

Still a sucker the BR Blue era.. Clag, clag, and more clag


Being a rail enthusiast and studying abroad over there was glorious... not to mention it pretty much blew all North American public transport out of the water.

/Also helped that I met Richard Hammond on the Tube
//Nice guy
 
2012-12-18 12:19:47 PM  
 
2012-12-18 12:26:28 PM  

ds_4815: styckx: Brits love their trains and rightfully so their entire infrastructure is based around them.

Still a sucker the BR Blue era.. Clag, clag, and more clag

Being a rail enthusiast and studying abroad over there was glorious... not to mention it pretty much blew all North American public transport out of the water.

/Also helped that I met Richard Hammond on the Tube
//Nice guy


And no sound sounds better than this.
 
2012-12-18 01:07:08 PM  
Want
 
2012-12-18 01:41:47 PM  

497.5 Feet of Rope: I'll bet this will cause confusion and delay.


So no change, then.
 
2012-12-18 01:50:33 PM  
It looks like they're burning fairly clean welsh coal or similar, so the particulates and smoke are at a minimum. You can also minimize smoke by your firing method, firing light and often and sifting the coal so you don't put fines / ash in the firebox, and keeping all corners of the fire hot, no deadspots.

In my 1/4 scale steam locomotive I burn Australian char, which is an extremely refined coal product. Zero smoke, very little soot. Most people think it's running on propane till I show em the coal bin and open the firebox door.

So it is possible to run fairly clean with coal. (for coal)

//steam junkie
 
2012-12-18 01:54:25 PM  
The most sooty coal is soft coal, in the states 'Pocahontas' coal from Pennsylvania is a good example. Soft coal has a lot of impurities and you get much less BTUs per chunk. the highest energy and cleanest coal here in the states is Anthracite coal. The Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad advertised for folks to "ride the road of anthracite" so the ladies would keep their linens clean during their journey. Complete with their own mascot lady, Phoebe Snow.

"Says Phoebe Snow
about to go
upon a trip to Buffalo
"My gown stays white
from morn till night
Upon the Road of Anthracite"
 
2012-12-18 01:58:19 PM  
Came for Thomas. Leaving happy.

/peep peep
 
2012-12-18 02:13:31 PM  
Subby has significant reading problems. The locomotive is a hundred years old, but steam trains ran regularly (pulling freight) on the underground into the 1960s and this one did trial runs last year.
 
2012-12-18 02:58:48 PM  

Happy Hours: mechgreg: mjg: You'd think the the steam/smoke would mess with the electrical components of the modern tube.

That's kind of what I was thinking. I am impressed/surprised that the modern tube thing has the kind of ventilation needed to deal with the steam from this thing, along with the smoke/soot/exhaust generated by whatever they are using to generate the steam.

I'd hazard a guess they have better ventilation than when steam trains were the norm.


Most of London Underground is much as it was 100 years ago. I guess the fans are now electric rather than the original (... steam powered?) Ones. Most stations now have escalators whereas they must have originally just had staircases. And the lighting is a bit better. But that's about it.

Forget about wheelchair access or even toddler buggies. No elevators except on the couple of lines from the last couple of decades. Certainly not enough venyilation to allow air conditioning on the trains.

It's part of London's historic charm...
 
2012-12-18 03:07:37 PM  

opiumpoopy:
Forget about wheelchair access or even toddler buggies. No elevators except on the couple of lines from the last couple of decades. Certainly not enough venyilation to allow air conditioning on the trains.

It's part of London's historic charm...


Yea some of the stations farther down were a warm soup. The difference between Tokyo's transit system and london's is night and day. The tube seemed so pokey in comparison. But it is the first in the world. :)
 
2012-12-18 03:09:06 PM  

opiumpoopy: Certainly not enough venyilation to allow air conditioning on the trains.


Not talking about air conditioning just fresh air ventilation. If the station is deep underground how do you stop carbon monoxide generated by the steam engine from filling up the station? Sure these might have been the same stations they used 100 years ago, but I can pretty much guarantee that ventilation requirements have gotten a lot stricter since then.
 
2012-12-18 03:15:39 PM  
The flow through the tunnels and the size of the station vs. the fire in the engine is not enough to cause a problem. It's running on an old line which is not deep underground and probably still has its ventilation shafts.
 
2012-12-18 04:24:01 PM  
Addressing the whole smoke/death/underground thing.

They've spent a few years planning this and identified the best routes which have suitable ventilation for it, fairly shallow and often exposed to the surface either above ground or travelling through fake façade cuttings.

/façade
 
2012-12-18 07:18:29 PM  
The Metro line is mostly above ground. It's the best choice for restoration of the steam service.

Google 'metro land Betjeman' for a splendid documentary by Poet Laureate John Betjeman.
 
2012-12-18 07:31:06 PM  

mechgreg: opiumpoopy: Certainly not enough venyilation to allow air conditioning on the trains.

Not talking about air conditioning just fresh air ventilation. If the station is deep underground how do you stop carbon monoxide generated by the steam engine from filling up the station? Sure these might have been the same stations they used 100 years ago, but I can pretty much guarantee that ventilation requirements have gotten a lot stricter since then.


The "deep tube" lines have always been electric. The Circle, District and Metropolitan (including Hammersmith and City) lines were steam operated original, but they are subways, not tubes; built cut-and-cover just below the surface and with significant open air sections.

Underground steam locomotives burned coke rather than coal, to reduce smoke, and condensed their exhaust steam to reduce steam.
 
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