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(CNN)   You'll shoot your Dicks off   (cnn.com) divider line 194
    More: Followup, Dick's Sporting Goods, sports equipment, semi-automatic rifle, Sandy Hook, Newtown, national mourning  
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19873 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Dec 2012 at 1:55 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-18 04:12:35 PM  
relaxitsjustme

karnal: relaxitsjustme

ReapTheChaos: innumerate: ReapTheChaos: These kind of knee jerk reactions are pointless. It doesn't matter what kind of weapon this guy used, he was going to go to that school and kill those kids that day. If he couldn't get his hands on an assault type rifle he would have just used a hunting rifle, or a pistol, or whatever else he had lying around.

Oh yes it does matter what kind of weapon he used. Certain types of weapons make a nutjob into a more efficient killing machine.

Trying to prevent nutjobs from becoming more efficient is not a kneejerk reaction if it makes so much goddamn sense. Of course common sense seems to be in shorter supply than semi-automatic weapons in certain parts of this country.

You do realize that these "assault" weapons they're talking about aren't machine guns right? They're Semi-automatic, which means one trigger pull fires one bullet, just like every other rifle or pistol out there.

So? Doens't change the fact that semi-auto assault weapons still turn a deranged person into a more efficient killing machine.


So does Red Bull....so, what's your point?

The point it that is matters what type of weapon is used.



I agree that the Assault Weapons Ban should not have expired.....but I place the blame for the horrific shooting squarely on the kid and his mother.
 
2012-12-18 04:14:39 PM  
Dicks.
 
2012-12-18 04:15:38 PM  
innumerate


karnal:
So does Red Bull....so, what's your point?

Ok, let's have a duel.

My weapon: A semi-automatic rifle.

Your weapon: One, scratch that, two cans of red bull

May the more efficient killing machine win!



There is only one common denominator in your scenario - the human denominator.
 
2012-12-18 04:16:35 PM  

karnal: First They Came For My Religion, And I Said Nothing


Your religion will be the last thing they come for. It will serve as a control system long after they take your guns and lawnmowers.
 
2012-12-18 04:19:01 PM  
Good. More business for Bass Pro. They're a nicer store and have a bigger selection anyway.
 
2012-12-18 04:21:25 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: Dimensio: justanotherfarkinfarker: What was their sales volume of those anyway? They mostly sell deer shotguns and such

The Dicks Sporting Goods store near where I live sold AR-15-based rifles that I believe were chambered in higher calibers, likely intended for deer hunting.

Nobody hunts with those weapons. Legally. Nobody.


Uh, about 5 guys at my office who go hog hunting every fall would disagree with you. They all use AR platforms for hunting.
 
2012-12-18 04:24:57 PM  

relaxitsjustme: ReapTheChaos: innumerate: ReapTheChaos: These kind of knee jerk reactions are pointless. It doesn't matter what kind of weapon this guy used, he was going to go to that school and kill those kids that day. If he couldn't get his hands on an assault type rifle he would have just used a hunting rifle, or a pistol, or whatever else he had lying around.

Oh yes it does matter what kind of weapon he used. Certain types of weapons make a nutjob into a more efficient killing machine.

Trying to prevent nutjobs from becoming more efficient is not a kneejerk reaction if it makes so much goddamn sense. Of course common sense seems to be in shorter supply than semi-automatic weapons in certain parts of this country.

You do realize that these "assault" weapons they're talking about aren't machine guns right? They're Semi-automatic, which means one trigger pull fires one bullet, just like every other rifle or pistol out there.

So? Doens't change the fact that semi-auto assault weapons still turn a deranged person into a more efficient killing machine.


I don't see how. In a close environment like a classroom, he would have been more efficient using a shotgun. He would have easily killed 2 or 3 at a time that way.
 
2012-12-18 04:26:12 PM  

Doom MD: innumerate: ReapTheChaos: These kind of knee jerk reactions are pointless. It doesn't matter what kind of weapon this guy used, he was going to go to that school and kill those kids that day. If he couldn't get his hands on an assault type rifle he would have just used a hunting rifle, or a pistol, or whatever else he had lying around.

Oh yes it does matter what kind of weapon he used. Certain types of weapons make a nutjob into a more efficient killing machine.

Trying to prevent nutjobs from becoming more efficient is not a kneejerk reaction if it makes so much goddamn sense. Of course common sense seems to be in shorter supply than semi-automatic weapons in certain parts of this country.

Having an AR15 didn't make him more efficient at killing compared to using any of his handguns or shotgun that he had in his possession. It could even be argued it made him less efficient. Long rifles are less desirable in close quarters.


AR-15's aren't a traditional "long rifle". There is a reason they use M4's to clear homes in SWAT (America), Iraq etc and not pistols or shotguns most of the time. My AR is probably a good foot shorter then my long rifles and extremely easy to maneuver in closer quarters. More so then a shotgun and easier to aim then a pistol.
 
2012-12-18 04:26:47 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: Dimensio: justanotherfarkinfarker: What was their sales volume of those anyway? They mostly sell deer shotguns and such

The Dicks Sporting Goods store near where I live sold AR-15-based rifles that I believe were chambered in higher calibers, likely intended for deer hunting.

Nobody hunts with those weapons. Legally. Nobody.


Plenty of people hunt with AR-15s. Most hunting regulations stipulate a maximum capacity for when you hunt (ie ducks - 3 shells). While not exactly hunting, plenty of people use semi-auto rifles to rid land of unwanted animals, be they ranchers shooting coyotes or a farmer shooting wild hogs. My dad's friend has an AR-15 chambered in .308 because occasionally he gets a lot of hogs on his property in the Florida panhandle. They make a mess out of everything and can be quite dangerous to humans. Plenty of people hunt small to medium game with it. You don't need high powered cartridge to shoot a raccoon.
 
2012-12-18 04:27:01 PM  

karnal: relaxitsjustme

karnal: relaxitsjustme

ReapTheChaos: innumerate: ReapTheChaos: These kind of knee jerk reactions are pointless. It doesn't matter what kind of weapon this guy used, he was going to go to that school and kill those kids that day. If he couldn't get his hands on an assault type rifle he would have just used a hunting rifle, or a pistol, or whatever else he had lying around.

Oh yes it does matter what kind of weapon he used. Certain types of weapons make a nutjob into a more efficient killing machine.

Trying to prevent nutjobs from becoming more efficient is not a kneejerk reaction if it makes so much goddamn sense. Of course common sense seems to be in shorter supply than semi-automatic weapons in certain parts of this country.

You do realize that these "assault" weapons they're talking about aren't machine guns right? They're Semi-automatic, which means one trigger pull fires one bullet, just like every other rifle or pistol out there.

So? Doens't change the fact that semi-auto assault weapons still turn a deranged person into a more efficient killing machine.

So does Red Bull....so, what's your point?

The point it that is matters what type of weapon is used.

I agree that the Assault Weapons Ban should not have expired.....but I place the blame for the horrific shooting squarely on the kid and his mother.


I agree. If somebody is entertaining thoughts of shooting up a public location they should recognize that they have a problem and seek help. Being slightly or even a lot mental isn't an excuse in my book. But somebody was trying to make the point that it doesn't matter what weapon he had in his hands when he went off and I disagree with that premise.
 
2012-12-18 04:30:01 PM  

ha-ha-guy: Doom MD: Having an AR15 didn't make him more efficient at killing compared to using any of his handguns or shotgun that he had in his possession. It could even be argued it made him less efficient. Long rifles are less desirable in close quarters.

Yeah, that shotgun with buckshot would not have been pleasant in a classroom. Especially with some of the chokes out there for them.

As I'be said before, if anyone ever shoots up my workplace, I was him to do with a M60. He's not going to be accurate or moving all that fast.

/and jamming is on the table with it too

I'm highly doubting a shotgun would spread in the distance most modern american classrooms are. Links to chokes that show them spreading more then all of 6-8 inches in that distance? Rate of fire is also slower. Now a reliable Semi-Auto 12 with a drum magazine might be different. Still, my shooting speed with my AR-15 is very very high with high accuracy due to lack of kick, light weight, etc. My friends Saiga 12 isn't near as fast.
 
2012-12-18 04:34:06 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: Dimensio: justanotherfarkinfarker: What was their sales volume of those anyway? They mostly sell deer shotguns and such

The Dicks Sporting Goods store near where I live sold AR-15-based rifles that I believe were chambered in higher calibers, likely intended for deer hunting.

Nobody hunts with those weapons. Legally. Nobody.


I do asshole.
 
2012-12-18 04:34:55 PM  

ReapTheChaos: relaxitsjustme: ReapTheChaos: innumerate: ReapTheChaos: These kind of knee jerk reactions are pointless. It doesn't matter what kind of weapon this guy used, he was going to go to that school and kill those kids that day. If he couldn't get his hands on an assault type rifle he would have just used a hunting rifle, or a pistol, or whatever else he had lying around.

Oh yes it does matter what kind of weapon he used. Certain types of weapons make a nutjob into a more efficient killing machine.

Trying to prevent nutjobs from becoming more efficient is not a kneejerk reaction if it makes so much goddamn sense. Of course common sense seems to be in shorter supply than semi-automatic weapons in certain parts of this country.

You do realize that these "assault" weapons they're talking about aren't machine guns right? They're Semi-automatic, which means one trigger pull fires one bullet, just like every other rifle or pistol out there.

So? Doens't change the fact that semi-auto assault weapons still turn a deranged person into a more efficient killing machine.

I don't see how. In a close environment like a classroom, he would have been more efficient using a shotgun. He would have easily killed 2 or 3 at a time that way.


WTF? You think you point a shotgun at something and Boom! everything within 50 yards withers and dies? How wide is an average classroom? 20' maybe 50' from entrance door to furthest corner? What's the spread at 50'? I'll take my chances with the 00 over a .223 round at 50' How much energy is lost going through a desk on a 00 vs a .223? How many rounds can somebody rip off in 30 seconds with an AR vs a 12 gauge? Who ever said these threads make it easy to spot the people who only know about guns from the movies and the news is right.
 
2012-12-18 04:35:17 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: Dimensio: justanotherfarkinfarker: What was their sales volume of those anyway? They mostly sell deer shotguns and such

The Dicks Sporting Goods store near where I live sold AR-15-based rifles that I believe were chambered in higher calibers, likely intended for deer hunting.

Nobody hunts with those weapons. Legally. Nobody.


Hog hunting, prairie dogs, etc are all hunted with these legally.
 
2012-12-18 04:43:51 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: Dimensio: justanotherfarkinfarker: What was their sales volume of those anyway? They mostly sell deer shotguns and such

The Dicks Sporting Goods store near where I live sold AR-15-based rifles that I believe were chambered in higher calibers, likely intended for deer hunting.

Nobody hunts with those weapons. Legally. Nobody.


You have confused your ignorance with reality. The two concepts, however, are not equivalent.

The higher-caliber variants of AR-15 pattern rifles are primarily marketed to hunters.
 
2012-12-18 04:44:05 PM  

innumerate: a revolver less efficient than a semi-automatic pistol,


The Hell they're not. They're more reliable/much harder to jam and they don't leave shell casings behind for forensics. The smarter gang-bangers use these.
 
2012-12-18 04:45:10 PM  

mstang1988: ha-ha-guy: Doom MD: Having an AR15 didn't make him more efficient at killing compared to using any of his handguns or shotgun that he had in his possession. It could even be argued it made him less efficient. Long rifles are less desirable in close quarters.

Yeah, that shotgun with buckshot would not have been pleasant in a classroom. Especially with some of the chokes out there for them.

As I'be said before, if anyone ever shoots up my workplace, I was him to do with a M60. He's not going to be accurate or moving all that fast.

/and jamming is on the table with it too
I'm highly doubting a shotgun would spread in the distance most modern american classrooms are. Links to chokes that show them spreading more then all of 6-8 inches in that distance? Rate of fire is also slower. Now a reliable Semi-Auto 12 with a drum magazine might be different. Still, my shooting speed with my AR-15 is very very high with high accuracy due to lack of kick, light weight, etc. My friends Saiga 12 isn't near as fast.


Your hunting chokes aren't going to be useful in the classroom, but there was a whole line of chokes for close quarters combat. They started out for WWI tunnel clearing and remained in service at various levels through Vietnam. There used to be a company in Michigan that the duckbill style choke used in 'Nam. You also sometime seem them on riot police shotguns, although not so much in America.

The duckbill I have does 1 foot high by 4 foot long oval at 20 yards. If you're firing across a classroom with that spread forming, you could get the whole pile of huddled bodies in one or two shots.

/with regard to your early post about SWAT not using shotguns, while weapon handling is a valid point the other issue is collateral damage like hostages or the target's family members, etc. If you're shooting up the place, you don't care about that.
 
2012-12-18 04:48:50 PM  

relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: innumerate: ReapTheChaos: These kind of knee jerk reactions are pointless. It doesn't matter what kind of weapon this guy used, he was going to go to that school and kill those kids that day. If he couldn't get his hands on an assault type rifle he would have just used a hunting rifle, or a pistol, or whatever else he had lying around.

Oh yes it does matter what kind of weapon he used. Certain types of weapons make a nutjob into a more efficient killing machine.

Trying to prevent nutjobs from becoming more efficient is not a kneejerk reaction if it makes so much goddamn sense. Of course common sense seems to be in shorter supply than semi-automatic weapons in certain parts of this country.

Having an AR15 didn't make him more efficient at killing compared to using any of his handguns or shotgun that he had in his possession. It could even be argued it made him less efficient. Long rifles are less desirable in close quarters.

What weapon can put more rounds down range in X number of minutes? Semi-automatic assault rifle? Semi-automatic shotgun? Semi-automatic handgun?


not sure if serious
 
2012-12-18 04:49:11 PM  

ha-ha-guy: Doom MD: Having an AR15 didn't make him more efficient at killing compared to using any of his handguns or shotgun that he had in his possession. It could even be argued it made him less efficient. Long rifles are less desirable in close quarters.

Yeah, that shotgun with buckshot would not have been pleasant in a classroom. Especially with some of the chokes out there for them.

As I'be said before, if anyone ever shoots up my workplace, I was him to do with a M60. He's not going to be accurate or moving all that fast.

/and jamming is on the table with it too


Except a person can't walk into a sporting goods store and buy an M60.
 
2012-12-18 04:51:33 PM  

Benjamin Orr: relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: innumerate: ReapTheChaos: These kind of knee jerk reactions are pointless. It doesn't matter what kind of weapon this guy used, he was going to go to that school and kill those kids that day. If he couldn't get his hands on an assault type rifle he would have just used a hunting rifle, or a pistol, or whatever else he had lying around.

Oh yes it does matter what kind of weapon he used. Certain types of weapons make a nutjob into a more efficient killing machine.

Trying to prevent nutjobs from becoming more efficient is not a kneejerk reaction if it makes so much goddamn sense. Of course common sense seems to be in shorter supply than semi-automatic weapons in certain parts of this country.

Having an AR15 didn't make him more efficient at killing compared to using any of his handguns or shotgun that he had in his possession. It could even be argued it made him less efficient. Long rifles are less desirable in close quarters.

What weapon can put more rounds down range in X number of minutes? Semi-automatic assault rifle? Semi-automatic shotgun? Semi-automatic handgun?

not sure if serious


I was asking the poster who was insinuating that a handgun or shotgun would have been more efficient than an AR-15
 
2012-12-18 04:51:33 PM  

ReapTheChaos:
I honestly don't think it does. In a shootout with police a 30 round magazine might give you a slight edge, shooting 6 year olds, not so much. It only takes a second or two to reload one anyway.


And a second or two makes a world of difference. How long would it take an average person to run across a classroom and out the door? Or to lay down and play dead while the shooter is reloading in cases where there are several people shot already?
 
2012-12-18 04:53:25 PM  

redmid17: Zeb Hesselgresser: Dimensio: justanotherfarkinfarker: What was their sales volume of those anyway? They mostly sell deer shotguns and such

The Dicks Sporting Goods store near where I live sold AR-15-based rifles that I believe were chambered in higher calibers, likely intended for deer hunting.

Nobody hunts with those weapons. Legally. Nobody.

Plenty of people hunt with AR-15s. Most hunting regulations stipulate a maximum capacity for when you hunt (ie ducks - 3 shells). While not exactly hunting, plenty of people use semi-auto rifles to rid land of unwanted animals, be they ranchers shooting coyotes or a farmer shooting wild hogs. My dad's friend has an AR-15 chambered in .308 because occasionally he gets a lot of hogs on his property in the Florida panhandle. They make a mess out of everything and can be quite dangerous to humans. Plenty of people hunt small to medium game with it. You don't need high powered cartridge to shoot a raccoon.


In PA, (5) shot rifles, (3) shot shotguns. You're right, private property varmint/pest control gives people a free hand.
 
2012-12-18 04:53:53 PM  

Doom MD: innumerate: a revolver less efficient than a semi-automatic pistol,

The Hell they're not. They're more reliable/much harder to jam and they don't leave shell casings behind for forensics. The smarter gang-bangers use these.


Except you snipped the part about "rate of fire"
 
2012-12-18 04:54:47 PM  

mstang1988: ha-ha-guy: Doom MD: Having an AR15 didn't make him more efficient at killing compared to using any of his handguns or shotgun that he had in his possession. It could even be argued it made him less efficient. Long rifles are less desirable in close quarters.

Yeah, that shotgun with buckshot would not have been pleasant in a classroom. Especially with some of the chokes out there for them.

As I'be said before, if anyone ever shoots up my workplace, I was him to do with a M60. He's not going to be accurate or moving all that fast.

/and jamming is on the table with it too
I'm highly doubting a shotgun would spread in the distance most modern american classrooms are. Links to chokes that show them spreading more then all of 6-8 inches in that distance? Rate of fire is also slower. Now a reliable Semi-Auto 12 with a drum magazine might be different. Still, my shooting speed with my AR-15 is very very high with high accuracy due to lack of kick, light weight, etc. My friends Saiga 12 isn't near as fast.


How is this turning into a conversation into the best way to massacre 7 year olds? You really think this Asperberger's kid was carefully weighing his options? These are 7 year olds. My originaly point is that anything he would've selected would essentially have led to the same outcome. Would we be railing about the AR15 if he just left it in his trunk and he went wild with his shotty instead?
 
2012-12-18 04:55:35 PM  

karnal: innumerate


karnal:
So does Red Bull....so, what's your point?

Ok, let's have a duel.

My weapon: A semi-automatic rifle.

Your weapon: One, scratch that, two cans of red bull

May the more efficient killing machine win!


There is only one common denominator in your scenario - the human denominator.


That's always the common denominator. What's your point? Obviously I'm not saying that we shouldn't look at that factor, but it seems like gun nuts are pushing the mental health issue solely to distract from the need for better firearm restrictions, etc.
 
2012-12-18 04:56:24 PM  

Odd Bird: dikfishman: In my city in a fairly new shopping center they are building a Dick's. On the other side of that parking lot is a BJ's Brewery.

Odd Bird: I trust we can count on photographic proof of project completion.


Here is a screen cap of an article about the said building of Dick's.

i47.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-18 04:56:33 PM  

innumerate: ReapTheChaos:
I honestly don't think it does. In a shootout with police a 30 round magazine might give you a slight edge, shooting 6 year olds, not so much. It only takes a second or two to reload one anyway.

And a second or two makes a world of difference. How long would it take an average person to run across a classroom and out the door? Or to lay down and play dead while the shooter is reloading in cases where there are several people shot already?


In the old days when people got into close range fights with muzzleloading rifles, they didn't pause to reload.

/bayonets and solid buttstocks aren't new things.
 
2012-12-18 04:57:44 PM  

Doom MD: innumerate: a revolver less efficient than a semi-automatic pistol,

The Hell they're not. They're more reliable/much harder to jam and they don't leave shell casings behind for forensics. The smarter gang-bangers use these.


But they also have a smaller capacity and take longer to reload. In a mass shooting situation, I doubt the shooter is concerned with forensics.
 
2012-12-18 04:57:57 PM  

relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: innumerate: a revolver less efficient than a semi-automatic pistol,

The Hell they're not. They're more reliable/much harder to jam and they don't leave shell casings behind for forensics. The smarter gang-bangers use these.

Except you snipped the part about "rate of fire"


Rate of fire is no different
 
2012-12-18 04:59:34 PM  

Doom MD: relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: innumerate: a revolver less efficient than a semi-automatic pistol,

The Hell they're not. They're more reliable/much harder to jam and they don't leave shell casings behind for forensics. The smarter gang-bangers use these.

Except you snipped the part about "rate of fire"

Rate of fire is no different


Once you get to the 7th round it is
 
2012-12-18 05:01:58 PM  

way south: innumerate: ReapTheChaos:
I honestly don't think it does. In a shootout with police a 30 round magazine might give you a slight edge, shooting 6 year olds, not so much. It only takes a second or two to reload one anyway.

And a second or two makes a world of difference. How long would it take an average person to run across a classroom and out the door? Or to lay down and play dead while the shooter is reloading in cases where there are several people shot already?

In the old days when people got into close range fights with muzzleloading rifles, they didn't pause to reload.

/bayonets and solid buttstocks aren't new things.


They also aren't as efficient in mass shootings than a weapon you don't have to reload nearly as often. I'd rather take my chances ( or have anyone take their chances) with a solid buttstock or bayonet.
 
2012-12-18 05:02:12 PM  

innumerate: Doom MD: innumerate: a revolver less efficient than a semi-automatic pistol,

The Hell they're not. They're more reliable/much harder to jam and they don't leave shell casings behind for forensics. The smarter gang-bangers use these.

But they also have a smaller capacity and take longer to reload. In a mass shooting situation, I doubt the shooter is concerned with forensics.


You've never heard of a speed loader? And yes, they tend to have smaller capacity but they generally also use a larger caliber cartridge. I'm sorry, I was thinking you were concerned about public well-being, rather than regulating an extremely uncommon event that is statistically on the decline.
 
2012-12-18 05:03:15 PM  

relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: innumerate: a revolver less efficient than a semi-automatic pistol,

The Hell they're not. They're more reliable/much harder to jam and they don't leave shell casings behind for forensics. The smarter gang-bangers use these.

Except you snipped the part about "rate of fire"

Rate of fire is no different

Once you get to the 7th round it is

inigomontoya.jpeg
 
2012-12-18 05:03:26 PM  

relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: innumerate: a revolver less efficient than a semi-automatic pistol,

The Hell they're not. They're more reliable/much harder to jam and they don't leave shell casings behind for forensics. The smarter gang-bangers use these.

Except you snipped the part about "rate of fire"

Rate of fire is no different

Once you get to the 7th round it is


Just get real good with these
 
2012-12-18 05:03:52 PM  

Doom MD: innumerate: Doom MD: innumerate: a revolver less efficient than a semi-automatic pistol,

The Hell they're not. They're more reliable/much harder to jam and they don't leave shell casings behind for forensics. The smarter gang-bangers use these.

But they also have a smaller capacity and take longer to reload. In a mass shooting situation, I doubt the shooter is concerned with forensics.

You've never heard of a speed loader? And yes, they tend to have smaller capacity but they generally also use a larger caliber cartridge. I'm sorry, I was thinking you were concerned about public well-being, rather than regulating an extremely uncommon event that is statistically on the decline.


I'm concerned about both. What would make you think otherwise?
 
2012-12-18 05:05:07 PM  

Doom MD: mstang1988: ha-ha-guy: Doom MD: Having an AR15 didn't make him more efficient at killing compared to using any of his handguns or shotgun that he had in his possession. It could even be argued it made him less efficient. Long rifles are less desirable in close quarters.

Yeah, that shotgun with buckshot would not have been pleasant in a classroom. Especially with some of the chokes out there for them.

As I'be said before, if anyone ever shoots up my workplace, I was him to do with a M60. He's not going to be accurate or moving all that fast.

/and jamming is on the table with it too
I'm highly doubting a shotgun would spread in the distance most modern american classrooms are. Links to chokes that show them spreading more then all of 6-8 inches in that distance? Rate of fire is also slower. Now a reliable Semi-Auto 12 with a drum magazine might be different. Still, my shooting speed with my AR-15 is very very high with high accuracy due to lack of kick, light weight, etc. My friends Saiga 12 isn't near as fast.

How is this turning into a conversation into the best way to massacre 7 year olds? You really think this Asperberger's kid was carefully weighing his options? These are 7 year olds. My originaly point is that anything he would've selected would essentially have led to the same outcome. Would we be railing about the AR15 if he just left it in his trunk and he went wild with his shotty instead?

I absolutely agree that yes, this would have ended up the same regardless. If one tool wasn't available he would have used another and against defenseless targets it's the same outcome. Who knows what the kid weighed (although you need to remember, it's similar to Autism so sometimes their attention to detail is high for specifics).
 
2012-12-18 05:05:23 PM  

ha-ha-guy: relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: innumerate: a revolver less efficient than a semi-automatic pistol,

The Hell they're not. They're more reliable/much harder to jam and they don't leave shell casings behind for forensics. The smarter gang-bangers use these.

Except you snipped the part about "rate of fire"

Rate of fire is no different

Once you get to the 7th round it is

Just get real good with these


Or this: freshinfos.com
 
2012-12-18 05:10:16 PM  

Doom MD: relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: innumerate: a revolver less efficient than a semi-automatic pistol,

The Hell they're not. They're more reliable/much harder to jam and they don't leave shell casings behind for forensics. The smarter gang-bangers use these.

Except you snipped the part about "rate of fire"

Rate of fire is no different

Once you get to the 7th round it is
inigomontoya.jpeg


Oh FFS you pedantic asshole you know exactly what I'm talking about but since you want to be a dick about it. I'll bet you that a semi-auto pistol can put more rounds down range and on target than some double-action wheel gun. IOW it has a faster rate of fire.
 
2012-12-18 05:13:58 PM  

ha-ha-guy: relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: innumerate: a revolver less efficient than a semi-automatic pistol,

The Hell they're not. They're more reliable/much harder to jam and they don't leave shell casings behind for forensics. The smarter gang-bangers use these.

Except you snipped the part about "rate of fire"

Rate of fire is no different

Once you get to the 7th round it is

Just get real good with these


You'll have to reload twice before the auto shooter gets to the end of his first magazine
 
2012-12-18 05:15:23 PM  

mstang1988: I absolutely agree that yes, this would have ended up the same regardless.


I disagree. Maybe in this specific situation it wouldn't have. However, let's say a situation like a crowded mall. If the shooter has to reload more often, more innocent people have a second or two to run and hide/run for cover.

mstang1988: If one tool wasn't available he would have used another and against defenseless targets it's the same outcome.


Hopefully that other tool would've either reduced his capability to kill in great numbers, OR caused him to jump through more hoops increasing the likelihood to raise a red flag somewhere along the line.

Most reasonable people, in my opinion, are asking for exactly this. Make it more DIFFICULT for a nutjob to meet his goal.

/I realize it would also make it more difficult for everyone else, but that's life.
 
2012-12-18 05:16:49 PM  

relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: innumerate: a revolver less efficient than a semi-automatic pistol,

The Hell they're not. They're more reliable/much harder to jam and they don't leave shell casings behind for forensics. The smarter gang-bangers use these.

Except you snipped the part about "rate of fire"

Rate of fire is no different

Once you get to the 7th round it is
inigomontoya.jpeg

Oh FFS you pedantic asshole you know exactly what I'm talking about but since you want to be a dick about it. I'll bet you that a semi-auto pistol can put more rounds down range and on target than some double-action wheel gun. IOW it has a faster rate of fire.


No, it does not have a faster rate of fire. You're wielding your definitions clumsily. What you're trying to say is that revolvers have a longer reload time, not a faster rate of fire. This can be mitigated with speed loaders.
 
2012-12-18 05:18:35 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Zeb Hesselgresser: Dimensio: justanotherfarkinfarker: What was their sales volume of those anyway? They mostly sell deer shotguns and such

The Dicks Sporting Goods store near where I live sold AR-15-based rifles that I believe were chambered in higher calibers, likely intended for deer hunting.

Nobody hunts with those weapons. Legally. Nobody.

Uh, about 5 guys at my office who go hog hunting every fall would disagree with you. They all use AR platforms for hunting.


I was thinking traditional northeast deer and small game,I'm not sure I want to hunt anything that would require (20) rounds of 7.62. My .223 came with a (5) round box. These guys really hunt pigs legally with 20+ round clips? TMYK.
 
2012-12-18 05:20:41 PM  

Doom MD:
How is this turning into a conversation into the best way to massacre 7 year olds?


thread upon thread on the internet seem to be going down this road....It's rather disturbing to me personally.

I'm not sure how I feel about this whole issue... I'd love it if we could all start from a high level and find consensus on some kind of realistic framework before going straight for the 'ban guns!!!' or 'I need my guns to protect me from the government!!!!' wahrgarbl....

Can everyone here agree on the following two statements?:

1.) We can't farking ban guns. In America's past...pretty much every time we try to ban something it fails miserably. Please see prohibition and the drug war for example.

2.) I fundamentally reject the notion that 'safe' in our society means everyone needs to be armed to the teeth at all times. Some sort of personal M.A.D. walking around everywhere. A pin drops in a kindergarten classroom and fifteen kids open fire at once.... This isn't practical, and anyone who suggests we should just arm those who might be in danger isn't being realistic.

// basically...I got nothin...
 
2012-12-18 05:24:01 PM  
TIf you work for the city of San Francisco, they will pay for your sex change operation. I think this may save the city a lot of money and weed out everyone but the truly He/Shes.
 
2012-12-18 05:24:02 PM  

innumerate: mstang1988: I absolutely agree that yes, this would have ended up the same regardless.

I disagree. Maybe in this specific situation it wouldn't have. However, let's say a situation like a crowded mall. If the shooter has to reload more often, more innocent people have a second or two to run and hide/run for cover.

mstang1988: If one tool wasn't available he would have used another and against defenseless targets it's the same outcome.

Hopefully that other tool would've either reduced his capability to kill in great numbers, OR caused him to jump through more hoops increasing the likelihood to raise a red flag somewhere along the line.

Most reasonable people, in my opinion, are asking for exactly this. Make it more DIFFICULT for a nutjob to meet his goal.

/I realize it would also make it more difficult for everyone else, but that's life.


It's not as clear cut as you try to make it be. A semiauto handgun jams and the massacre is over, whereas a revolver wielded could've just kept going. A semiauto wielded can reload less often with his hypothetical 9 mm, but being hit with a .357 magnum is much more devastating. There's a reason people still buy revolvers.
 
2012-12-18 05:24:53 PM  

amquelbettamin: redmid17: The Short Bald Guy from Benny Hill: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: PR.

Yep. Those guns will be back for sale soon. It's simple economics. Create a scarcity by purposefully holding back supply and then start selling again at twice the value because there are a ton of fearful idiots out there who need to protect themselves from society.

Meanwhile Cabela's, Bass Pro Shop, Gander Mountain, and any other big outdoor/gun stores I missed will feel free to continue selling their stock. That doesn't even touch the specialized gun stores.

Wrong I checked gander mountain is sold out


Buds Gun Shop will have it. They have everything.

/Well expect customer service in the store
 
2012-12-18 05:24:54 PM  

Doom MD: relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: innumerate: a revolver less efficient than a semi-automatic pistol,

The Hell they're not. They're more reliable/much harder to jam and they don't leave shell casings behind for forensics. The smarter gang-bangers use these.

Except you snipped the part about "rate of fire"

Rate of fire is no different

Once you get to the 7th round it is
inigomontoya.jpeg

Oh FFS you pedantic asshole you know exactly what I'm talking about but since you want to be a dick about it. I'll bet you that a semi-auto pistol can put more rounds down range and on target than some double-action wheel gun. IOW it has a faster rate of fire.

No, it does not have a faster rate of fire. You're wielding your definitions clumsily. What you're trying to say is that revolvers have a longer reload time, not a faster rate of fire. This can be mitigated with speed loaders.


Ok whatever...if you had to put 30 rounds down range with a hand gun in the minimum amount of time which weapon would you choose? A semi-auto pistol with two 15 round mags or a revolver a 5 speed loaders? I know what my choice would be.
 
2012-12-18 05:25:06 PM  
As soon as I posted that, it came to me that perhaps they could use a Bushmaster!!!
 
2012-12-18 05:28:10 PM  

relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: relaxitsjustme: Doom MD: innumerate: a revolver less efficient than a semi-automatic pistol,

The Hell they're not. They're more reliable/much harder to jam and they don't leave shell casings behind for forensics. The smarter gang-bangers use these.

Except you snipped the part about "rate of fire"

Rate of fire is no different

Once you get to the 7th round it is
inigomontoya.jpeg

Oh FFS you pedantic asshole you know exactly what I'm talking about but since you want to be a dick about it. I'll bet you that a semi-auto pistol can put more rounds down range and on target than some double-action wheel gun. IOW it has a faster rate of fire.

No, it does not have a faster rate of fire. You're wielding your definitions clumsily. What you're trying to say is that revolvers have a longer reload time, not a faster rate of fire. This can be mitigated with speed loaders.

Ok whatever...if you had to put 30 rounds down range with a hand gun in the minimum amount of time which weapon would you choose? A semi-auto pistol with two 15 round mags or a revolver a 5 speed loaders? I know what my choice would be.


My choice would be to get one round downrange where I need it to be.
 
2012-12-18 05:28:21 PM  

Doom MD: innumerate: mstang1988: I absolutely agree that yes, this would have ended up the same regardless.

I disagree. Maybe in this specific situation it wouldn't have. However, let's say a situation like a crowded mall. If the shooter has to reload more often, more innocent people have a second or two to run and hide/run for cover.

mstang1988: If one tool wasn't available he would have used another and against defenseless targets it's the same outcome.

Hopefully that other tool would've either reduced his capability to kill in great numbers, OR caused him to jump through more hoops increasing the likelihood to raise a red flag somewhere along the line.

Most reasonable people, in my opinion, are asking for exactly this. Make it more DIFFICULT for a nutjob to meet his goal.

/I realize it would also make it more difficult for everyone else, but that's life.

It's not as clear cut as you try to make it be. A semiauto handgun jams and the massacre is over, whereas a revolver wielded could've just kept going. A semiauto wielded can reload less often with his hypothetical 9 mm, but being hit with a .357 magnum is much more devastating. There's a reason people still buy revolvers.


How is it that your hypothetical shooter is a whiz with a speed loader but is somehow unable to rack a slide to clear a jam with an autoloader?
 
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