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(Townhall)   Why? There is no "why." People this profoundly mentally ill don't deal in "whys." But this phony self-esteem movement isn't helping. For quite some time now our children have been told how wonderful they are - even those clearly not wonderful   ( townhall.com) divider line
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1896 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Dec 2012 at 11:58 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-18 09:40:00 AM  
Would these be the same people that told Townhall writers that they would make good journalists someday?
 
2012-12-18 09:43:31 AM  
Didn't most schools drop the self-esteem happy talk bullshiat 20 years ago?
 
2012-12-18 09:50:28 AM  
TownDerp.

So can we start the involuntary institutionalization of the insane back up? Can we start with the fundies?
 
2012-12-18 09:52:49 AM  
jimlefkowitz.com
 
2012-12-18 09:55:08 AM  
Go home, Townhall. You're drunk.
 
2012-12-18 09:56:12 AM  
I love how conservatives think that trying to promote self-esteem in children is having disastrous social effects now.

They scoff at the idea of treating children positively and being encouraging.
 
2012-12-18 09:56:34 AM  
I would much rather give the government the power to declare me insane and take away all my rights than have them take my gun.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-18 09:58:05 AM  

Gulper Eel: Didn't most schools drop the self-esteem happy talk bullshiat 20 years ago?


I think so, I do remember something like that from the distant past.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-18 09:58:59 AM  

Rev.K: I love how conservatives think that trying to promote self-esteem in children is having disastrous social effects now.

They scoff at the idea of treating children positively and being encouraging.


I think the people who shoot up schools have the opposite problem.
 
2012-12-18 10:03:10 AM  
All TownHerp and American shiater links need to be auto tagged as satire.
 
2012-12-18 10:06:05 AM  
l.wigflip.com
 
2012-12-18 10:08:27 AM  
While I think TownHall is a bunch of bunk, I have to agree with subby's headline (at least part of it). Back in my day, you were encouraged to achieve and rewarded when you did so. These days, everyone gets a medal for participating. I've seen it even in my son's school, fer chrissakes. What ever happened to "A, B, C, D, F" for grades? Now it's COLORS. What happened to the stigma of an "F"?? Also, when I was in 3rd grade, I *knew* my multiplication tables. They don't teach that to MY son (in third grade), so I'm going to have to do that. While I realize that as a parent, you have to parent; when you're a teacher, YOU TEACH! And we wonder why our kids aren't excelling at math and science. Jesus.

And now I will leave the thread with the obligatory "get off my lawn" quip.
 
2012-12-18 10:19:02 AM  

xanadian: I have to agree with subby's headline (at least part of it).


Yep. Self esteem is something you develop from accomplishment. While there's something of a virtuous cycle between the two, you really can't jump start it from the self esteem side. Unfortunately, that involves occasionally making five year olds cry, and that's hard to sell.
 
2012-12-18 10:22:36 AM  

Rev.K: I love how conservatives think that trying to promote self-esteem in children is having disastrous social effects now.

They scoff at the idea of treating children positively and being encouraging.


Now? Growing up in a household with a conservative father I can safely present to you that guilting, insulting, demeaning, berating, and beating your children into sub-existence has been in effect for quite a while...
 
2012-12-18 10:33:01 AM  

Rev.K: I love how conservatives think that trying to promote self-esteem in children is having disastrous social effects now.



Only if you do it with the brown ones. They might start thinking that they're as good as anyone else and one might even be fool enough to run for president.....oh. OK. I get it.
 
2012-12-18 10:36:04 AM  

Gulper Eel: Didn't most schools drop the self-esteem happy talk bullshiat 20 years ago?


My wife is a high school teacher. No, no they have most certainly not.
 
2012-12-18 10:44:59 AM  
I do find it interesting that the same GOP folks who "badger the witness" to Reagan, who cheer cutting services to the sick and who scream that Obamacare is the same as shoving George Washington's face into a bucket full of Communist buttholes are now suddenly the world's biggest fans of comprehensive mental health coverage for everyone who's so much as gotten weepy after a few Natty Ices.
 
2012-12-18 10:47:22 AM  

xanadian: Also, when I was in 3rd grade, I *knew* my multiplication tables. They don't teach that to MY son (in third grade), so I'm going to have to do that. While I realize that as a parent, you have to parent; when you're a teacher, YOU TEACH! And we wonder why our kids aren't excelling at math and science. Jesus.


The problem is, when you (and I) were in third grade, our classmates were our intellectual peers. The "smart" kids were in a class together. The "average" kids were in a class together. The "paste eaters" were in a class together. As such, the teacher had kids who were all on the same page, both literally and figuratively.

Nowadays, the "paste eaters" are encouraged (read, forced) to take the "smart" classes so that their self-esteem won't be harmed. They are told that, they too can be an astronaut, or a doctor or Chair of the Economics Department at The University of Chicago, as if being a garbage collector is something to be ashamed of. The world needs ditch diggers, in fact I argue that ditch diggers are more vital to society than another lawyer, but I digress.

These "paste eaters" and their IEP's (Individual Education Plans) are a drain on the teacher's slim resources. Why should one kid get 50% of the teacher's time, so that 25 other kids have to share the other 50% because Jimmy needs to have all the test questions read to him, or needs an additional 2 hours to finish an in-class assignment. The problem is exacerbated when you've got half the class on IEP's and each student needs to be taught differently than the others.
 
2012-12-18 10:52:43 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: I do find it interesting that the same GOP folks who "badger the witness" to Reagan, who cheer cutting services to the sick and who scream that Obamacare is the same as shoving George Washington's face into a bucket full of Communist buttholes are now suddenly the world's biggest fans of comprehensive mental health coverage for everyone who's so much as gotten weepy after a few Natty Ices.


My father voted for the severe mental health funding cut for our State 4 years ago.
Then he told me just to go to the County Human Services when it became obvious I couldn't afford the therapy I needed after being the victim of a gruesome crime (I have good insurance, what it doesn't cover I can't afford)
When I told him I had been in contact with County and they explicitly told me they couldn't help me because I wasn't a danger to myself or others, and due to the funding cuts they are even having trouble helping those previously mentioned.
Dad called me a liar.
I reminded him he voted for the measure.
We haven't spoken since.
 
2012-12-18 11:04:47 AM  

CapeFearCadaver: Mr. Coffee Nerves: I do find it interesting that the same GOP folks who "badger the witness" to Reagan, who cheer cutting services to the sick and who scream that Obamacare is the same as shoving George Washington's face into a bucket full of Communist buttholes are now suddenly the world's biggest fans of comprehensive mental health coverage for everyone who's so much as gotten weepy after a few Natty Ices.

My father voted for the severe mental health funding cut for our State 4 years ago.
Then he told me just to go to the County Human Services when it became obvious I couldn't afford the therapy I needed after being the victim of a gruesome crime (I have good insurance, what it doesn't cover I can't afford)
When I told him I had been in contact with County and they explicitly told me they couldn't help me because I wasn't a danger to myself or others, and due to the funding cuts they are even having trouble helping those previously mentioned.
Dad called me a liar.
I reminded him he voted for the measure.
We haven't spoken since.


What do mental health funding cuts have to do with a screwed-up kid from a home where mom was getting over $300,000 a year in alimony and child support? Maybe the funding has merit but it's not relevant to this particular case.

In this situation, the care he needed would have been affordable even out-of-pocket (and if so, tax-deductible).
 
2012-12-18 11:10:30 AM  

Gulper Eel: What do mental health funding cuts have to do with a screwed-up kid


Um... Mr. Nerves was talking about the GOP reaction regarding mental health and I gave him an anecdote that lines up with his analysis.
 
2012-12-18 11:15:24 AM  

Gecko Gingrich: The problem is, when you (and I) were in third grade, our classmates were our intellectual peers. The "smart" kids were in a class together. The "average" kids were in a class together. The "paste eaters" were in a class together.



And back then, the paste tasted excellent. Now, not so much...
 
2012-12-18 11:17:07 AM  

UberDave: And back then, the paste tasted excellent. Now, not so much...


Minty, with a hint of horse, IIRC.
 
2012-12-18 11:56:01 AM  

CapeFearCadaver: My father voted for the severe mental health funding cut for our State 4 years ago.
Then he told me just to go to the County Human Services when it became obvious I couldn't afford the therapy I needed after being the victim of a gruesome crime (I have good insurance, what it doesn't cover I can't afford)
When I told him I had been in contact with County and they explicitly told me they couldn't help me because I wasn't a danger to myself or others, and due to the funding cuts they are even having trouble helping those previously mentioned.
Dad called me a liar.
I reminded him he voted for the measure.
We haven't spoken since.



blobtoblog.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-18 11:56:28 AM  
You see it's really The Liberals who are to blame for recent school shootings and furthermore,
 
2012-12-18 11:58:27 AM  
You know, it really depends on who is doing the self-esteem boosting and why. If you are constantly being teased by your classmates every single day, it might help if your teacher occasionally says "good job", or "you look nice today" to counter-balance that, even if you are a paste-eater or a weird kid.

As the mother of two "gifted" but somewhat weird kids, I know I was furious when my daughter's teacher told me there was something very wrong with her because she didn't want to play the same games as the other girls. No, you shallow twunt, she didn't. She wanted to learn about the universe, about physics, about the mechanics of evolution, and she wanted to learn programming. She wanted to learn all these things, and you handed her a boring worksheet and looked at her like she'd done something wrong. She was six at the time.

I'm homeschooling my kids now. Not because I think they need more Jebus (they were in public schools), but because I used to be a teacher, and because I can. I can teach them classical essay format, grammar rules (actually they already know these pretty well), math (my husband is a college math instructor if they get beyond what I remember how to do), and computer skills, including programming. One kid is writing and testing game mods, and the other is creating game models and art with Blender and the GIMP.

They don't get called names, they don't get hit while riding the bus; they are happy, and they are learning. They'll probably go back to school when each of them is old enough for high school, but for now we're doing just fine.
 
2012-12-18 12:00:34 PM  
The morons are right. We should identify the stupid children and verbally harass them at every opportunity. Then, when they go home where there are guns available, they'll know how worthless they are and won't do anything.
 
2012-12-18 12:02:12 PM  
Which of the 20 dead first graders weren't wonderful, Townhall?
 
2012-12-18 12:02:13 PM  
There is no reason, no reason at all. Except this reason, the one I thought of.
 
2012-12-18 12:02:46 PM  
FTA: 2. Then there's this phony self-esteem movement. For quite some time now our children have been told how wonderful they are - even those clearly not wonderful. Self-esteem is not a gift. It is not given you.

Townhall is the only news source brave enough to put the blame where it belongs: on the six and seven year olds whose parents felt they were special.
 
2012-12-18 12:02:53 PM  

CapeFearCadaver: Mr. Coffee Nerves: I do find it interesting that the same GOP folks who "badger the witness" to Reagan, who cheer cutting services to the sick and who scream that Obamacare is the same as shoving George Washington's face into a bucket full of Communist buttholes are now suddenly the world's biggest fans of comprehensive mental health coverage for everyone who's so much as gotten weepy after a few Natty Ices.

My father voted for the severe mental health funding cut for our State 4 years ago.
Then he told me just to go to the County Human Services when it became obvious I couldn't afford the therapy I needed after being the victim of a gruesome crime (I have good insurance, what it doesn't cover I can't afford)
When I told him I had been in contact with County and they explicitly told me they couldn't help me because I wasn't a danger to myself or others, and due to the funding cuts they are even having trouble helping those previously mentioned.
Dad called me a liar.
I reminded him he voted for the measure.
We haven't spoken since.


Oh man...it takes an especially cold heart to boot someone onto the not-so-tender (or competent) mercies of the New Hanover County healthcare system. Even if they had been able to help you...Jesus.

Sorry.
 
2012-12-18 12:03:33 PM  
I agree with the article, we need to start calling a spade a spade and putting these worthless kids in their place.
 
2012-12-18 12:03:39 PM  

xanadian: While I think TownHall is a bunch of bunk, I have to agree with subby's headline (at least part of it). Back in my day, you were encouraged to achieve and rewarded when you did so. These days, everyone gets a medal for participating. I've seen it even in my son's school, fer chrissakes. What ever happened to "A, B, C, D, F" for grades? Now it's COLORS. What happened to the stigma of an "F"?? Also, when I was in 3rd grade, I *knew* my multiplication tables. They don't teach that to MY son (in third grade), so I'm going to have to do that. .


what world do you live in? My first grader has an A-F grade scale.
 
2012-12-18 12:04:26 PM  

CheetahOlivetti: They don't get called names, they don't get hit while riding the bus


They also don't learn how to deal with being called names or to defuse a situation where they may get hit. There's more to school than readin', writin' and 'rithmatic.
 
2012-12-18 12:06:34 PM  
You know, my kids' school is fine. (Not superb, fine.) They learn the material, get real grades, have extracurriculars, etc.

The reason? Our part of town has the high property tax houses. So the school has actual money to work with.

Maybe if our schools were fully funded, they'd provide better educations for our children.
 
2012-12-18 12:07:10 PM  

Gecko Gingrich: CheetahOlivetti: They don't get called names, they don't get hit while riding the bus

They also don't learn how to deal with being called names or to defuse a situation where they may get hit. There's more to school than readin', writin' and 'rithmatic.


Easy solution, parents just need to start beating their kids more often.
 
2012-12-18 12:08:26 PM  

SavageWombat: You know, my kids' school is fine. (Not superb, fine.) They learn the material, get real grades, have extracurriculars, etc.

The reason? Our part of town has the high property tax houses. So the school has actual money to work with.

Maybe if our schools were fully funded, they'd provide better educations for our children.


Why should I have to pay for kids who live in poorer school districts education???
 
2012-12-18 12:08:26 PM  
If this is in response to the Newtown Shooter, then suck it, Townhall.

That kid had self-esteem. His mother taught him how to shoot. He thought he was pretty good at it. So good, that he broke into a school, shot a principal, shot other adults, took two rooms hostage, killing 20 children and then when he heard the cops coming, he shot himself. He had hundreds of rounds of ammunition AND a back up weapon in the car.

Does that sound like someone with low self-esteem?

No one, yet, knows exactly what set this kid off. And why are we still calling him a kid? He was 20 years old. He WAS NOT some kid.

He hadn't been in a classroom in a long time. His mother took him out of school because she thought it was the best thing to do.

He HAD gone to college at the age of 16. Yeah, kids with low self-esteem go to college before they graduate high school. They get a 3.0+ GPA.

Fark off.
 
2012-12-18 12:09:01 PM  

havocmike: xanadian: While I think TownHall is a bunch of bunk, I have to agree with subby's headline (at least part of it). Back in my day, you were encouraged to achieve and rewarded when you did so. These days, everyone gets a medal for participating. I've seen it even in my son's school, fer chrissakes. What ever happened to "A, B, C, D, F" for grades? Now it's COLORS. What happened to the stigma of an "F"?? Also, when I was in 3rd grade, I *knew* my multiplication tables. They don't teach that to MY son (in third grade), so I'm going to have to do that. .

what world do you live in? My first grader has an A-F grade scale.


This is Fark, he lives in his mom's basement and has no kids just posts stuff he pulls out of his ass...
 
2012-12-18 12:09:38 PM  

SavageWombat: You know, my kids' school is fine. (Not superb, fine.) They learn the material, get real grades, have extracurriculars, etc.

The reason? Our part of town has the high property tax houses. So the school has actual money to work with.

Maybe if our schools were fully funded, they'd provide better educations for our children.


The shooter's family lived in a VERY UPPER-CLASS district.
 
2012-12-18 12:09:49 PM  
For once, can we greenlight a damn story from a Conservative source that isn't full of herp and terp, or written by an ignorant lunatic, or which misses the mark so completely as to almost be laughable?

*crickets*

I should probably go get something to eat while I wait, shouldn't I? Maybe a haircut? Write a thesis?
 
2012-12-18 12:10:11 PM  

theteacher: If this is in response to the Newtown Shooter, then suck it, Townhall.

That kid had self-esteem. His mother taught him how to shoot. He thought he was pretty good at it. So good, that he broke into a school, shot a principal, shot other adults, took two rooms hostage, killing 20 children and then when he heard the cops coming, he shot himself. He had hundreds of rounds of ammunition AND a back up weapon in the car.

Does that sound like someone with low self-esteem?


Of course not. Everyone knows that owning a gun makes you a big man.
 
2012-12-18 12:10:41 PM  

CheetahOlivetti: You know, it really depends on who is doing the self-esteem boosting and why. If you are constantly being teased by your classmates every single day, it might help if your teacher occasionally says "good job", or "you look nice today" to counter-balance that, even if you are a paste-eater or a weird kid.

As the mother of two "gifted" but somewhat weird kids, I know I was furious when my daughter's teacher told me there was something very wrong with her because she didn't want to play the same games as the other girls. No, you shallow twunt, she didn't. She wanted to learn about the universe, about physics, about the mechanics of evolution, and she wanted to learn programming. She wanted to learn all these things, and you handed her a boring worksheet and looked at her like she'd done something wrong. She was six at the time.

I'm homeschooling my kids now. Not because I think they need more Jebus (they were in public schools), but because I used to be a teacher, and because I can. I can teach them classical essay format, grammar rules (actually they already know these pretty well), math (my husband is a college math instructor if they get beyond what I remember how to do), and computer skills, including programming. One kid is writing and testing game mods, and the other is creating game models and art with Blender and the GIMP.

They don't get called names, they don't get hit while riding the bus; they are happy, and they are learning. They'll probably go back to school when each of them is old enough for high school, but for now we're doing just fine.


You know video game programming doesn't sound like the most optimal grade school curriculum.
 
2012-12-18 12:11:20 PM  

Gecko Gingrich: Gulper Eel: Didn't most schools drop the self-esteem happy talk bullshiat 20 years ago?

My wife is a high school teacher. No, no they have most certainly not.


I'm the parent of a fifth grader, and I agree. Schools today are much more focused on self esteem and personal development than they were when I was in elementary school. Judging by the long term performance of some of my kid's peers - the ones who would have been discarded by the system years ago - it's an entirely good thing.
 
2012-12-18 12:11:25 PM  
Case in point:

blog.chron.com
 
2012-12-18 12:11:28 PM  
Clearly today's children should be told they are stupid and terrible. The writers from TownHall were, and grew up determined to prove it to the world.
 
2012-12-18 12:11:49 PM  

Rev.K: I love how conservatives think that trying to promote self-esteem in children is having disastrous social effects now.

They scoff at the idea of treating children positively and being encouraging.


Oh, that's not it at all. See, they are very competitive, so when everyone gets a trophy, it bothers them. THEIR little Timmy was CLEARLY better than everyone else, and EVERYONE MUST KNOW THAT. They call it the 'self-esteem movement', but it's not actually a self-esteem movement; it's the fact that teachers and parents have collectively learned that the quickest way to shut both children and parents up is to just hand out door prizes and nothing else.

Go watch a Little League baseball game and imagine being the referee. You'll figure out why they do it in ten minutes, and it's to handle idiots like TFA's author.
 
2012-12-18 12:12:41 PM  
It may help to understand human affairs to be clear that most of the great triumphs and tragedies of history are caused, not by people being fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, but by people being fundamentally people.
 
2012-12-18 12:12:43 PM  

CheetahOlivetti: You know, it really depends on who is doing the self-esteem boosting and why. If you are constantly being teased by your classmates every single day, it might help if your teacher occasionally says "good job", or "you look nice today" to counter-balance that, even if you are a paste-eater or a weird kid.

As the mother of two "gifted" but somewhat weird kids, I know I was furious when my daughter's teacher told me there was something very wrong with her because she didn't want to play the same games as the other girls. No, you shallow twunt, she didn't. She wanted to learn about the universe, about physics, about the mechanics of evolution, and she wanted to learn programming. She wanted to learn all these things, and you handed her a boring worksheet and looked at her like she'd done something wrong. She was six at the time.

I'm homeschooling my kids now. Not because I think they need more Jebus (they were in public schools), but because I used to be a teacher, and because I can. I can teach them classical essay format, grammar rules (actually they already know these pretty well), math (my husband is a college math instructor if they get beyond what I remember how to do), and computer skills, including programming. One kid is writing and testing game mods, and the other is creating game models and art with Blender and the GIMP.

They don't get called names, they don't get hit while riding the bus; they are happy, and they are learning. They'll probably go back to school when each of them is old enough for high school, but for now we're doing just fine.


Now if only every parent was a certified teacher married to a college math instructor then all of our educational problems would be solved.
 
2012-12-18 12:13:04 PM  
Good job, Townhall!

Hey, guys - Townhall published some Derp! Look at that fine, fine derp!

I'm gonna put it riiiiiiiiiight here, right on the fridge.
 
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