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(Yahoo)   Linsanity returns to Madison Square Garden   (sports.yahoo.com) divider line 20
    More: Amusing, Madison Square Garden, rockets, PBS, Raymond Felton, New York, Mike Woodson, NBA Development League, rout  
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665 clicks; posted to Sports » on 18 Dec 2012 at 12:30 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-18 10:41:50 AM
It's always fun to see a guy come back and stick it to Jim Dolan.
 
2012-12-18 12:03:07 PM
Lin was really good. The whole Rockets team was. They seem to be a really bad matchup for the Knicks and I'm glad there are no more games between them left.

That said, so far my prediction about this Knicks season seems to be wrong. So that's nice.
 
2012-12-18 12:35:36 PM
FTA: Chandler felt it was a clean, hard foul that didn't warrant a flagrant.

That's because you're a douche Chandler.
 
2012-12-18 12:43:52 PM

JerseyTim: It's always fun to see a guy come back and stick it to Jim Dolan.


So much this. Fark that was beautiful: he outscores the curent Knicks backcourt (Kidd, Felton) 22 to 19.

Awesome.

/Also: FARK YOU DOLAN!
 
2012-12-18 12:45:08 PM

FreakinB: Lin was really good. The whole Rockets team was. They seem to be a really bad matchup for the Knicks and I'm glad there are no more games between them left.

That said, so far my prediction about this Knicks season seems to be wrong. So that's nice.


The Knicks are dead to me anyway, fark 'em.
 
2012-12-18 12:52:28 PM
1995 again, anyone? That was the year they lost to Houston in the finals, right? Started great that season too.
 
2012-12-18 01:21:53 PM
What happened to all the folks that thought Lin was overrated? There were entire threads devoted to Lin hating last year.
 
2012-12-18 01:26:19 PM
Hey, how about them Magic?

/fark you ESPN for predicting they would win 17 games this season.
 
2012-12-18 01:52:26 PM

xtragrind: What happened to all the folks that thought Lin was overrated? There were entire threads devoted to Lin hating last year.


Heh, having James Harden doesn't hurt either. Happy for him and for the fact that jackhole Dolan had to watch it in front of him...douchebag.
 
2012-12-18 01:58:52 PM

xtragrind: What happened to all the folks that thought Lin was overrated? There were entire threads devoted to Lin hating last year.


The best part was that the ringleader of that group was the first in line to consistently bang the drum for Tim Tebow. Really weird.
 
2012-12-18 02:05:02 PM

xtragrind: What happened to all the folks that thought Lin was overrated? There were entire threads devoted to Lin hating last year.


He was very overrated according to way he was being covered and how quickly people bought into the hype of him being this really good player. I made a list of every starting PG in the league and asked how many guys they would take Lin over, and there were people saying they would take him over Rajon Rondo and Deron Williams. Many people thought he was an upper tier PG just based on a 10 game stretch. He had inflated numbers based on being the #1 option in D'Antoni's system. Hell, Chris Duhon put up good numbers when he got a lot of run in that system a few years back.

Good on him for getting paid, and I'm glad he had a nice game returning to NY. But at best he's going to be an average starting PG in the league, and would probably do much better in a sixth man role where he doesn't have the responsibility of running a team and playing defense for 30+ minutes a game.

Funny how there wasn't a thread yesterday when Jose Calderon (!) dropped a triple-double on him in a Raptors win while Lin had 7 points and 3 turnovers.
 
2012-12-18 02:23:28 PM
Rwa2play
Heh, having James Harden doesn't hurt either.

Actually, it does- Harden and Lin both need the ball in their hands to create on offense, and Lin has been struggling to get good looks playing off the ball with Harden. Lin's best game so far this year was with Harden on the bench with an ankle injury.
 
2012-12-18 02:42:51 PM
It just occurred to me that the Chanukah Song by Adam Sandler now references a non-existent franchise.
 
2012-12-18 02:50:44 PM

coolio mack: He was very overrated according to way he was being covered and how quickly people bought into the hype of him being this really good player. I made a list of every starting PG in the league and asked how many guys they would take Lin over, and there were people saying they would take him over Rajon Rondo and Deron Williams. Many people thought he was an upper tier PG just based on a 10 game stretch. He had inflated numbers based on being the #1 option in D'Antoni's system. Hell, Chris Duhon put up good numbers when he got a lot of run in that system a few years back.

Good on him for getting paid, and I'm glad he had a nice game returning to NY. But at best he's going to be an average starting PG in the league, and would probably do much better in a sixth man role where he doesn't have the responsibility of running a team and playing defense for 30+ minutes a game.


That stretch was an unbelievable amount of fun while it lasted, but I realized that probably wasn't going to be the norm. However, given the previous experiences us Knicks fans had at PG, the thought of having someone even competent was exciting. Because of that I wanted them to re-sign him and was upset when they didn't. And I was even more upset when they went with Fat Ray Felton and the 2000 All-Star team. But like I said, so far I've been wrong.
 
2012-12-18 03:14:40 PM

coolio mack:
Funny how there wasn't a thread yesterday when Jose Calderon (!) dropped a triple-double on him in a Raptors win while Lin had 7 points and 3 turnovers.


I saw that stat line and thought it was a typo.
 
2012-12-18 03:19:28 PM

FreakinB: coolio mack: He was very overrated according to way he was being covered and how quickly people bought into the hype of him being this really good player. I made a list of every starting PG in the league and asked how many guys they would take Lin over, and there were people saying they would take him over Rajon Rondo and Deron Williams. Many people thought he was an upper tier PG just based on a 10 game stretch. He had inflated numbers based on being the #1 option in D'Antoni's system. Hell, Chris Duhon put up good numbers when he got a lot of run in that system a few years back.

Good on him for getting paid, and I'm glad he had a nice game returning to NY. But at best he's going to be an average starting PG in the league, and would probably do much better in a sixth man role where he doesn't have the responsibility of running a team and playing defense for 30+ minutes a game.

That stretch was an unbelievable amount of fun while it lasted, but I realized that probably wasn't going to be the norm. However, given the previous experiences us Knicks fans had at PG, the thought of having someone even competent was exciting. Because of that I wanted them to re-sign him and was upset when they didn't. And I was even more upset when they went with Fat Ray Felton and the 2000 All-Star team. But like I said, so far I've been wrong.


And let me be clear - I loved the Lin storyline last year. It was a great story and I watched him drop 38 on my Lakers, so he obviously has some game. I didn't mind the coverage he got and it was good to see him rally the fans and that organization after the letdown that Amare and Melo were to that point of the season.

But I had to take a step back and look at it from a pure basketball perspective and what Lin projected out to being as he continued to play in the league and teams started scouting him and picking apart his game. And then just looking at it from a Knicks perspective with D'Antoni gone and having some of the cap issues with Melo and Amare both taking up so much cap space with the new CBA rules. I understand why they let him go, but could also see why Knicks fans would be upset about it.

Speaking of the Knicks, I don't believe Felton is the answer and his shooting % has taken a turn for the worse. And I doubt Kidd will keep up those great 3 point numbers he's had so far. It's all going to depend on how well Amare get's integrated back into the lineup and if Melo continues to be that 2 way player he's been so far. But I do think it's good for the league when the Knicks are good so hopefully they can keep it up and challenge Miami in the East.
 
2012-12-18 03:35:58 PM

xtragrind: What happened to all the folks that thought Lin was overrated? There were entire threads devoted to Lin hating last year.


Given the way he's played for most of this season, he was overrated. He had one good game this year, the rest of the time he's been letting Harden take charge. And the Knicks didn't fall apart without him -- seems like Woodson was more integral to their success last season than Lin was.

That said he's got a helluva payday, so good for him.

/Also, D'Antoni sucks
 
2012-12-18 05:48:16 PM

Arkanaut: He had one good game this year, the rest of the time he's been letting Harden take charge.


Why is this a weakness? He's letting Harden take charge because he knows Harden is more talented, which is frankly a smart and selfless decision. When he sees an opportunity he'll go for it, but he's not the type of player who drags the team down by insisting on getting touches. He ups his game when he knows he needs to. It's not that Lin can't score 20 any given game, but some guys (*cough*J.R.Smith*cough*) will try to get their 20 a night by shooting 7-of-20. Considering the vast majority of rebounds are defensive, that's not really an asset.

*sigh* I guess this post has to include some disclaimer that I do NOT think Lin is the best PG since John Stockton. However, he's a smart player and, yes, I'd take him over a lot of point guards who have more athleticism and better per-game stats but make worse team decisions. Best of all, he has a learning mentality. He probably won't get any faster or stronger, but he's still getting better. Last season during that 10-game stretch teams threw all kinds of defenses at him and in many cases he adjusted within minutes.

Arkanaut: seems like Woodson was more integral to their success last season than Lin was.


Not really. Last season, until Lin, the Knicks had no one with court vision -- none. The PG play was so awful that at times they had Melo playing point forward, where he'd just go into his iso. It was so bad that many of them kinda hung around the perimeter -- why not? You could shake your man and even get into space, but no one was going to pass to you. Steve Novak languished on the bench because, for all his deadeye aim, he NEEDS someone to create for him so he can get that open look. Well, this season, the Knicks have two guards have court vision. Kidd isn't young anymore and Felton is playing well partly because he has something to prove, but you could do worse -- and last year, they were definitely worse.

Due credit to Woodson; I think he's much better than D'Antoni, but the team's effort on D is already slipping badly. If it's premature to call Lin good, it's also premature to say the Knicks have bought into Woodson's system for the long haul.
 
2012-12-18 08:23:46 PM

dragonchild: Arkanaut: He had one good game this year, the rest of the time he's been letting Harden take charge.

Why is this a weakness? He's letting Harden take charge because he knows Harden is more talented, which is frankly a smart and selfless decision. When he sees an opportunity he'll go for it, but he's not the type of player who drags the team down by insisting on getting touches. He ups his game when he knows he needs to. It's not that Lin can't score 20 any given game, but some guys (*cough*J.R.Smith*cough*) will try to get their 20 a night by shooting 7-of-20. Considering the vast majority of rebounds are defensive, that's not really an asset.

*sigh* I guess this post has to include some disclaimer that I do NOT think Lin is the best PG since John Stockton. However, he's a smart player and, yes, I'd take him over a lot of point guards who have more athleticism and better per-game stats but make worse team decisions. Best of all, he has a learning mentality. He probably won't get any faster or stronger, but he's still getting better. Last season during that 10-game stretch teams threw all kinds of defenses at him and in many cases he adjusted within minutes.


Harden is more talented, but look at the rest of the Rockets team -- they're not much more talented than last year's Knicks. If you're telling me Lin not being able to score more than 12 points a game on that team, and that's okay, you must not have had very high expectations of him in the first place. Even last year after Carmelo came back Lin was putting up about 13 ppg.

Another thing I just noticed looking over his stats: his FG attempts are just down a little bit from last year -- 10.3 vs 10.9 -- but he's averaging three whole points less than last year. Most of that seems attributable to him getting to the line less, but his FG% is also down about 40 points (.446 --> .407). He might be adjusting his play to mesh with Harden, but it's not working out for him. I wish him the best, but I think we need to recognize that this is a guy that is very effective in certain systems, and not so effective in others.


Arkanaut: seems like Woodson was more integral to their success last season than Lin was.

Not really. Last season, until Lin, the Knicks had no one with court vision -- none. The PG play was so awful that at times they had Melo playing point forward, where he'd just go into his iso. It was so bad that many of them kinda hung around the perimeter -- why not? You could shake your man and even get into space, but no one was going to pass to you. Steve Novak languished on the bench because, for all his deadeye aim, he NEEDS someone to create for him so he can get that open look. Well, this season, the Knicks have two guards have court vision. Kidd isn't young anymore and Felton is playing well partly because he has something to prove, but you could do worse -- and last year, they were definitely w ...


I'll give you this -- the Knicks weren't going anywhere with Toney Douglas running point. But just to attribute the turnaround to Kidd and Felton is a bit silly, given how much they also lost with Amar'e and Shumpert out. Also, being a long-time Knicks follower (can't say I've really been a "fan" all these years), I've seen them bring in too many aging point guards (just off the top of my head -- Mark Jackson's second stint, Steve Francis, Marbury...) who did well with other teams but couldn't get the Knicks anywhere. In fact Felton was with the Knicks before and the team didn't look much better.

Lastly, you could see the impact that Woodson had even last year when they didn't have Lin -- or Kidd, or Felton -- in the lineup. IIRC, the Knicks were about even against their opponents when D'Antoni was coaching; when Woodson took over, they outscored their opponents by 9 or 10 points per game. Night and day.
 
2012-12-18 08:45:36 PM
Fark allows basketball threads?

Isn't this taking valuable time away from discussions about John Cena or nonexistent hockey games?
 
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