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(Huffington Post)   Diagnosed with mental illness? Well, if you haven't been arrested and/or "deemed dangerous", you can buy all the weapons and ammo you want. Legally   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 140
    More: Obvious, Mayors Against Illegal Guns, Sandy Hook, for sale by owner, concealed firearm, Seung-Hui Cho, gun controls, gun ownership, Jared Loughner  
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908 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Dec 2012 at 9:56 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-18 09:57:50 AM
Depends on the mental illness.

/dnrtfa
 
2012-12-18 09:59:08 AM
Duh, why do you think the NRA exists in its present form?
 
2012-12-18 09:59:22 AM
You can use your mental ward ID bracelet as a form of identification?
 
2012-12-18 10:00:58 AM
No you cannot go out and buy a weapon if you have been hospitalized for 5 years.
 
hej
2012-12-18 10:01:19 AM
Conversely, nobody is going to come confiscate your guns if you are diagnosed as mentally ill after you've already bought them.
 
2012-12-18 10:01:19 AM
So.... how do I go about getting my coworker "deemed dangerous"? She may be getting the boot today, might need to make sure she doesn't come back fully armed to pay us a visit.
 
2012-12-18 10:01:38 AM
It also turns out that if you haven't been convicted yet of a felony that you've committed, you're still allowed to buy a gun!

Funny how that works.
 
2012-12-18 10:02:02 AM
Gun laws don't prevent the mentally ill or criminals from getting guns...so let's get rid of gun laws.

In the same way, even with meat inspectors, people still get sick from tainted meat, so let's get rid of meat inspectors.
 
2012-12-18 10:02:13 AM
I like the Canadian idea of having two people vouch for you. It wouldn't have prevented Lanza from getting guns, but it might have kept the VA tech and Aurora shooters from arming up.
 
2012-12-18 10:03:31 AM
BECAUSE A CRAZY CRIMINAL WILL FOLLOW LAWS AMIRITE
 
2012-12-18 10:03:35 AM
The American's with Disabilities Act makes restricting their 2nd Amendment rights very, very difficult.
 
2012-12-18 10:03:49 AM

graggor: No you cannot go out and buy a weapon if you have been hospitalized for 5 years.


Unless its a private sale. Then there's nothing to stop you.
 
2012-12-18 10:04:38 AM

Citrate1007: The American's with Disabilities Act makes restricting their 2nd Amendment rights very, very difficult.


Torg cried about this last night. He loves his guns.

Of course, he can't tell the difference between guns and frosting, but that doesn't mean he has no rights.
 
2012-12-18 10:04:38 AM

Dr Dreidel: BECAUSE A CRAZY CRIMINAL WILL FOLLOW LAWS AMIRITE


Yes, yes, nobody should ever talk about anything related to guns.
 
2012-12-18 10:05:32 AM
There are mental illnesses that aren't dangerous at all.

That said, we do need better more consistent reporting for diagnoses that are.
 
2012-12-18 10:05:59 AM
Good news: being a farking moron isn't enough to be deemed "dangerous," so you can still buy a semi-automatic round and load it with 50-round magazines of hollow point bullets to destroy a horde of preschoolers if you aren't intelligent enough to tie your loafers.
 
2012-12-18 10:06:17 AM
Hey, I just met you,
And yes I'm crazy,
And here's my gun,
So shoot you, maybe?
 
2012-12-18 10:06:20 AM
So being OCD, ADD, ADHD or any of a host of alphabet diagnosis should automatically disqualify you from ever owning a firearm? Alcoholic? Gambling addiction? Body dysmorphia? Gay? Workaholic?

You can bet the push to basically saddle every single human being with SOME mental illness label would REALLY be pushed along.
 
2012-12-18 10:06:25 AM
OMG GUN GRABBER!

------------End of Thread----------------
 
2012-12-18 10:06:30 AM
Question 11.f. Adjudicated Mentally Defective: A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: (1) is a danger to himself or to others; or (2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs. This term shall include: (1) a finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and (2) Those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility

Currently this is enforced through a form you fill out when you buy a gun, and it is a felony to lie on this form. More stringent enforcement would open a whole can of worms. Do you want to require doctors and mental health professionals to report such persons to the government? Would you feel OK with the government keeping a registry of such persons in the event they ever try to buy a gun? Does this violate doctor patient confidentiality?

Also, any such measures will not prevent situations where an otherwise peaceful person suddenly becomes a violent offender, as in the case of the Aurora shooter.
 
2012-12-18 10:07:01 AM

Serious Black: Good news: being a farking moron isn't enough to be deemed "dangerous," so you can still buy a semi-automatic round and load it with 50-round magazines of hollow point bullets to destroy a horde of preschoolers if you aren't intelligent enough to tie your loafers.


Which is particularly relevant considering the mom was a paranoid prepper type.
 
2012-12-18 10:07:03 AM
List of mental disorders

Is subby telling me that people with anorexia or erectile dysfunction shouldn't be allowed to own guns?
 
2012-12-18 10:07:32 AM
Here is an article from Time

the shooter Cho Seung-Hui was able to pass two federal gun background checks even after a state court ruled that he was dangerously mentally ill, highlighted the need for better record-keeping and interagency communication to enforce those laws. (More than 30 people died in the incident.) Saying that unstable individuals are disqualified from buying firearms is meaningless if the national background-check system, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), has no record of their illness. That's why the Brady organization was proud to announce on Friday, just a day before the Tucson shootings, that the number of records of mental illness in the NICS database had more than doubled since Virginia Tech, to more than 1 million records.

But there's a problem with that: there should be more than 2 million records in that database, if all the states cooperated fully. According to the Brady organization's records, Arizona was not even the worst offender - at least the state ramped up its reporting somewhat in the wake of Virginia Tech. But still, Arizona's own estimate is that the state has 121,700 records of disqualifying mental illness that should go into the NICS database. From the beginning of 2008 to October 2010, however, it submitted only 4,465 records. Worse than Arizona were states like Louisiana, which submitted only one record during that time frame, and Nebraska and Pennsylvania, which didn't submit any.


So we have a law that says states need to report nutjobs to the NICS database yet states refuse to adhere to the law. I wonder who encourages states to withhold reporting.

Even if all states complied with NICS reporting, 40% of the purchases would fall through the cracks since 40% of gun purchases are through 'gun shows' and they don't have any reporting requirements.
 
2012-12-18 10:08:14 AM

Fizpez: SOME mental illness


Fizpez: Gay?


Well, that's nice.
 
2012-12-18 10:09:26 AM

jack21221: List of mental disorders

Is subby telling me that people with anorexia or erectile dysfunction shouldn't be allowed to own guns?


Correct. They should only be allowed to rent them
 
2012-12-18 10:09:33 AM

jack21221: List of mental disorders

Is subby telling me that people with anorexia or erectile dysfunction shouldn't be allowed to own guns?


People with erectile dysfunction are only allowed to shoot blanks.
 
2012-12-18 10:09:46 AM
*shrug*

The fix is in, our high court got packed with fringe nutters and our elected leaders are either on or want to get on the NRA cash train.

This is the polite society that they wanted.
 
2012-12-18 10:10:30 AM

sprawl15: It also turns out that if you haven't been convicted yet of a felony that you've committed, you're still allowed to buy a gun!

Funny how that works.


Innocent until proven guilty. The constitution is a biatch.

In any case, had any doctor made any finding that the shooter (or his mother) were mentally ill (or were accused of any crimes)? No? Then why are we even talking about this?

"He's kinda weird" or "He has mild austim" or "She's a doomsday prepper" will never be reasons to prevent somebody from buying a gun.

Practically, pollitically, and constitutionally, there is no way to stop the scenario that happened in Conneticut from happening again and again. Everybody needs to deal with this fact and move on.
 
2012-12-18 10:10:57 AM
Basically we're going through the same stupid discussion we have every time

"How can we stop crazy people from doing crazy things?"

You can't in a free society.

The fact is that lots of people have issues and never hurt anyone but once in awhile one of them wakes up a little crazier than usual and does something like this.

Also stop running around going "WHY?"... We are never going to be able to answer that question even when the person doesn't kill themselves.
 
2012-12-18 10:11:01 AM
Because your right to masturbate with fetishized lethal hardware outweighs my or anyone else's right to live without the hazard you will go over the edge and commit mass slaughter. Makes sense to me.
 
2012-12-18 10:11:37 AM
At one time I seriously considered having myself voluntarily admitted to a psych ward,I've dealt with many of those issues since then but back then it was bad. My sister told me that if I did voluntarily admit myself all they'd do was shoot me up with thorazine and then I wouldn't ever be able to get a ccw. I don't want want any damned way,out of respect for my mom we don't keep guns in the house. She watched her dad try to kill himself with .38. He just barely missed,he had frequent stays in Eastern State and was most likely bipolar. He jumped off a cliff once but just broke his back instead of killing him. On the same side of the family they took away my aunt Diane's gun because she's bipolar and threatened my former aunt with it.
 
2012-12-18 10:12:15 AM

Fubini: Question 11.f. Adjudicated Mentally Defective: A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: (1) is a danger to himself or to others; or (2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs. This term shall include: (1) a finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case; and (2) Those persons found incompetent to stand trial or found not guilty by reason of lack of mental responsibility

Currently this is enforced through a form you fill out when you buy a gun, and it is a felony to lie on this form. More stringent enforcement would open a whole can of worms. Do you want to require doctors and mental health professionals to report such persons to the government? Would you feel OK with the government keeping a registry of such persons in the event they ever try to buy a gun? Does this violate doctor patient confidentiality?

Also, any such measures will not prevent situations where an otherwise peaceful person suddenly becomes a violent offender, as in the case of the Aurora shooter.


Any psychologist will tell you that if they suspect somebody is at risk of harming themselves through suicide attempts or others through assault or murder, confidentiality goes out the window.
 
2012-12-18 10:12:21 AM

Dr Dreidel: BECAUSE A CRAZY CRIMINAL WILL FOLLOW LAWS AMIRITE


Somehow I'm not against restricting/tightening checks on people buying guns. like "OH NOO! 3 day waiting period on that AR-15 I've had my eye on! Constitutional Right BLAH BLAH BLAH!"

Guns don't kill people, but they sure expedite the killing and I'd prefer keeping them away from mentally unbalanced people so I don't have to hear about someone shooting up (Insert public place here) every 2-3 months.
 
2012-12-18 10:13:24 AM

jack21221: List of mental disorders

Is subby telling me that people with anorexia or erectile dysfunction shouldn't be allowed to own guns?


Erectile dysfunction could be why some people buy them. You know, getting your Man Card back and all.
 
2012-12-18 10:13:36 AM

Muta: Even if all states complied with NICS reporting, 40% of the purchases would fall through the cracks since 40% of gun purchases are through 'gun shows' and they don't have any reporting requirements.


Most discussions regarding gun control devolve into bumper sticker statements regarding individual gun ownership rights. Not to say there isn't merit in considering reform, mental illness being a prime example.

What I would like to see is a serious discussion of your point above. I'd like to understand better the laws that could allow large transfers of firearms to dealers. I'd like to see gun shows put under the same restrictions as smaller dealers. I'll admit ignorance of the law on this one, and would hope someone would enlighten me, but you have provided an example of one difference already.
 
2012-12-18 10:13:40 AM

Geotpf: Practically, pollitically, and constitutionally, there is no way to stop the scenario that happened in Conneticut from happening again and again. Everybody needs to deal with this fact and move on.


"every once in a while, 15-30 people are going to be murdered by someone. we need to have a free society, deal with it" is a horrible argument.
 
2012-12-18 10:14:03 AM
This actually gets at how tough this problem is. If we can't ban the weaponry itself, whether because of constitutional or practical issues, then keeping it away from nuts seems very, very difficult.
 
2012-12-18 10:14:12 AM

randomjsa: Basically we're going through the same stupid discussion we have every time

"How can we stop crazy people from doing crazy things?"

You can't in a free society.


The fact is that lots of people have issues and never hurt anyone but once in awhile one of them wakes up a little crazier than usual and does something like this.

Also stop running around going "WHY?"... We are never going to be able to answer that question even when the person doesn't kill themselves.


Other countries have done a pretty good job at stopping them compared to us. No other country has more than two of the worst fifty mass executions. We have either 11 or 12.
 
2012-12-18 10:14:45 AM
I've been avoiding this story as much as possible due to some local events involving more dead children, and I'm really just worn out from them thinking about dead kids, but I have to ask, how did he get the weapon/s? Or do they know yet?
 
2012-12-18 10:15:08 AM

Geotpf: In any case, had any doctor made any finding that the shooter (or his mother) were mentally ill (or were accused of any crimes)? No? Then why are we even talking about this?


You see, Newtown isn't the first mass shooting. There have been plenty others. Preventing mentally ill from getting guns could have prevented VaTech, Arizona and the Batman Shooter guy.
 
2012-12-18 10:15:43 AM

randomjsa: You can't in a free society.


Sure you can, but your notions of freedom are farking insane so you can't see it.
 
2012-12-18 10:15:50 AM

log_jammin: I've been avoiding this story as much as possible due to some local events involving more dead children, and I'm really just worn out from them thinking about dead kids, but I have to ask, how did he get the weapon/s? Or do they know yet?


He stole them from his survivalist mother and murdered her with them.
 
2012-12-18 10:16:56 AM

log_jammin: how did he get the weapon/s? Or do they know yet?


His mother is some sort of survivalist that owned the weapons. From neighbor comments, she would take both her sons out to shoot and showed off her new bushmaster 223 when she bought it.

It seems she did an absolute shiat job securing her weapons.
 
2012-12-18 10:17:11 AM

Fubini: Also, any such measures will not prevent situations where an otherwise peaceful person suddenly becomes a violent offender, as in the case of the Aurora shooter.


Um, didn't he have a HUGE psychiatric file?
 
2012-12-18 10:17:21 AM

bulldg4life: Geotpf: Practically, pollitically, and constitutionally, there is no way to stop the scenario that happened in Conneticut from happening again and again. Everybody needs to deal with this fact and move on.

"every once in a while, 15-30 people are going to be murdered by someone. we need to have a free society, deal with it" is a horrible argument.


Not as terrible as "You just want children to be murdered to feel better about your small penis!"
 
2012-12-18 10:18:11 AM
So I shouldnt be allowed to own a firearm because I compulsively straighten picture frames? I keep a level on me at all times just to be sure they are true.
 
2012-12-18 10:19:12 AM

Geotpf: sprawl15: It also turns out that if you haven't been convicted yet of a felony that you've committed, you're still allowed to buy a gun!

Funny how that works.

Innocent until proven guilty. The constitution is a biatch.


kind of the point there hoss

QueenMamaBee: Fubini: Also, any such measures will not prevent situations where an otherwise peaceful person suddenly becomes a violent offender, as in the case of the Aurora shooter.

Um, didn't he have a HUGE psychiatric file?


Huge psychiatric file != determination of danger to self or others.

Otherwise we'd have to stop anorexics/bulemics from getting guns.
 
2012-12-18 10:19:21 AM

Holocaust Agnostic: Not as terrible as "You just want children to be murdered to feel better about your small penis!"


Your strawman doesn't compare to arguments actually being made in this thread.
 
2012-12-18 10:19:44 AM
One of my friend's was considering that the law should prevent someone from buying a gun if they have ever been prescribed with some sort of mental illness treating drug. It's obviously not a great solution for a variety of reasons, but it is simple.

Personally, I think the cure is twofold. One, start challenging whatever it is in our culture that glorifies gun violence. Canada apparently has more guns than moose and yet they somehow manage to not have so many spree killers. And yes, maybe we need to focus some attention on the care and feeding of boys and men and how they grow up. Two, beef up the mental health system. Every single person with mental health issues should be able to receive treatment and supportive care and treatment (not be homeless).

I would support some thoughtful gun control restrictions but don't think that's really the cure.
 
2012-12-18 10:19:47 AM

Serious Black: He stole them from his survivalist mother and murdered her with them.


It is a good thing she had those guns to keep her safe.
 
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