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(The Atlantic)   In a world of 3-D-printed guns, Chris Rock's "bullet control" makes more sense   (theatlantic.com) divider line 208
    More: Unlikely, shooting sprees, guns  
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9554 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Dec 2012 at 10:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-18 11:55:51 AM

GentDirkly: The tax could be written to only apply to rounds that leave the range. You want to practice at the range, no tax.


Certain ranges (perhaps the private ones) would get known for a lax attitude to tax free ammo leaving the range. So people would buy 500 rounds tax free, fire it 450, and leave with 50 in their pocket.
 
2012-12-18 11:56:57 AM

CheekyMonkey: Do you know how I know you're not familiar with the term "printer"?


So... what, are you going to "print" a gun barrel out of layers of sheet metal? Come on.
 
2012-12-18 11:58:09 AM

IAMTHEINTARWEBS: First off, they aren't bullets, they are catridges or rounds of ammunition. A cartridge is made up of a case, projectile (or bullet), propellant, and a primer for setting the propellant charge off.

stratagos: vpb: stratagos: Because it of course is impossible to make your own bullets

Pretty much. Even re-loaders need supplies.

I'm willing to bet I can get lead, saltpeter, sulfer and charcoal if I set my mind to it

What are you gonna shoot that from? That sounds like a recipe for a muzzleloader and a flintlock at that. Cap locks will still need caps to set them off. Regulating the sale of caps would have the same effect on your recipe and methods as the proposed control of the sale of ammunition as mentioned in the article.
Modern cartridge based firearms require a primer to set the charge off and they use smokeless propellant. The ingredients you describe sound like the makings for black powder. In a modern firearm, ESPECIALLY an AR-15 type where combustion gasses enter the firing chamber, Black powder would be a 3 to 5 shot between cleanings affair. And I mean full dissassembly cleaning too. Ar-15 have very strict powder requirements. It must burn incredibly clean or the residues will jam the action.

I know for a fact that you can get the ingredients you describe without much trouble however the inference that you could use them to supply yourself with ammunition for modern firearms is laughable.


Myself? Of course not - I haven't handled a firearm in twenty years.

If your statement is that a sufficiently motivated individual would be incapable of figuring out how to produce ammunition, I would state that is the laughable proposal
 
2012-12-18 11:58:57 AM

farkingnotworking: How about this: we make it so that you have to buy gun insurance. Premiums will be steep, as insurance companies are pretty good at calculating risk, so their formidable math will provide regulation of the possession and market. People with uninsured guns get the guns confiscated, and have to pay a crazy fine or go to jail. You would have to have an insurance sticker/tag on your gun to use it at a shooting range...


This does what to stop someone from 3-D printing a one time gun for illegal activity?
 
2012-12-18 12:02:33 PM

Z-clipped: Private_Citizen: A barrel? No. A lower for many modern guns? Certainly.

Well, obviously. You can make the lower out of polymer too. My point was that 3D printing isn't a technology that's going to be capable of producing a complete firearm anytime soon, nor would it be worth the effort if it were. (That's why I specifically said "upper receiver"). A printer capable of slicing parts out of billet steel would be 100 times more dangerous than a handgun. 3D printing is neat, but it's not an efficient way to manufacture anything particularly durable, and it's probably not ever going to be.

Also, I was mostly just trying to make a Johnny Dangerously joke.


The lower is the only regulated part - the rest can be legally ordered over the internet and shipped to your house with no checks. So, all you need is the lower - which can be printed.

/don't touch my 88 magnum - it shoots through schools.
 
2012-12-18 12:02:39 PM

MythDragon: educate me then. What cluster of mass shootings have we had before the 90s.?

(I'm not counting gang violence. That was a criminal directing death at other criminals.)


Are there any other special exemptions you'd like to carve out before I point you to the easily-discoverable Wikipedia page listing them?
 
2012-12-18 12:04:57 PM
If he's caught with the gun, he does more time and

ha-ha-guy: farkingnotworking: How about this: we make it so that you have to buy gun insurance. Premiums will be steep, as insurance companies are pretty good at calculating risk, so their formidable math will provide regulation of the possession and market. People with uninsured guns get the guns confiscated, and have to pay a crazy fine or go to jail. You would have to have an insurance sticker/tag on your gun to use it at a shooting range...

This does what to stop someone from 3-D printing a one time gun for illegal activity?


If he's caught with the gun, it adds to time, I suppose. Though I have to say this particular debate about 3D printing is a clearly red herring? It's a possibility, not a serious reality, and the article is clearly meant to freak people out (or provide a wet dream for the NRA fans) rather than encourage productive discussion.
 
2012-12-18 12:05:38 PM
Dammit. Apologies for the extraneous question mark...
 
2012-12-18 12:06:36 PM
If you want an illegally obtained gun I think most people could find one eventually. If you want bullets then it would probably take the same amount of effort. The conclusion is that there is currently no way to stop someone from shooting up a public place other than them getting themself caught before the act can be done. The only real way you'd slow it down or reverse it would be to stop making the shooters infamous and I don't see that happening either. To summarize, we're farked and there's nothing that will really be done that will have any effect on stopping future occurences.
 
2012-12-18 12:09:19 PM
It's like weed, beer, and tobacco. Everyone talks about how easy it is to grow, or make, but the reality is, lazy people won't do it. How many people are going to get their own bullet making outfit?
My dad used to make his own shotgun shells when I was a kid. Buys them now.

$5,000 for a bullet. Think twice about using it.
 
2012-12-18 12:10:34 PM

farkingnotworking: Dammit. Apologies for the extraneous question mark...


The issue I see, is your solution is a reactive one. As in "Hey you killed 20 kids and you don't have the insurance stamp! Well now you're doing 20 life sentences and 5 years for no stamp, instead of just 20 life sentences, we showed you!".

If you're going to add fees to gun ownership, I'd rather see them come in upfront to support more back ground and/or mental health checks. Perhaps also things like proving you have secure storage and the like.

/and if you make guns too expensive, the black market will just supply the criminal needs
//I could likely get my hands on heroin within 5 hours if I wanted and that stuff is illegal
 
2012-12-18 12:11:00 PM

SuperDuper28: If you want an illegally obtained gun I think most people could find one eventually. If you want bullets then it would probably take the same amount of effort.


Yes, and that amount of effort is non-zero!

That will statistically lead to FEWER gun massacres, even if it never leads to ZERO gun massacres. I'd take that.
 
2012-12-18 12:12:44 PM

stuffy: If printing the gun can be done, then the bullet and casing would be cake. Powder and the primer might be the only stumbling block. I'll bet there are plenty of substitutes for those.


Buy a case of those "bang snaps" from Spencer's, and you got your primers.

Mix any powdered oxidizer with any powdered fuel (carefully), and you got your powder charge.

Casings don't need to be multiple use, they just need to keep the powder from being rendered inert by contaminants like water. Only issue with 3D printed plastic casings is that they will probably melt and gum up the breech, but even a cheap powdered aluminum printer will work. Bullets, you could use just about anything at short range... anything heavy that won't fall apart before clearing the barrel at longer range.

/designed a full auto gun made of heat-hardened steel pipes and plastic 3D parts that isn't invisible to x-ray scanners, but does look to them like the contents of a toolbox my plumber carried, right down to a bolt assembly that looks exactly like the mechanism in a jerry-rigged vacuum plunger
//designed, mind you... never built
 
2012-12-18 12:14:19 PM

MBP2112: Triumph: vpb: Gun nuts like to point at Switzerland

What's your definition of a "gun nut?" Someone who believes in the Bill of Rights?

You keep that strawman next to the Christmas tree, they can keep each other company...


I'm just looking for his definition of "gun nut." I don't have any guns in my home, but I think in his mind I might be one.
 
2012-12-18 12:17:18 PM

stratagos: Because it of course is impossible to make your own bullets


Over in 3.
 
2012-12-18 12:18:36 PM

Z-clipped: ell, obviously. You can make the lower out of polymer too. My point was that 3D printing isn't a technology that's going to be capable of producing a complete firearm anytime soon, nor would it be worth the effort if it were. (That's why I specifically said "upper receiver").


Soon. At a reasonable price point? That may take longer. The tech is there, getting better and cheaper as time goes on.
 
2012-12-18 12:21:02 PM

Itstoearly: MethylTryp: Tax the shiat out of it, like cigarettes. $.30/round. Put that money towards these mental health programs that all the gun people think will magically solve our gun violence problems.

30 cents/round is pretty cheap for some of the larger calibers.


Heck yeah it is! I wish I could get quality .308 rounds for that not to mention my .338 Lapua Magnum and .50BMG.
www.ar15.com
 
2012-12-18 12:27:23 PM

Biness: MythDragon: poot_rootbeer: MythDragon: If guns were the cause of shootings, where have all the mass school and mall shootings been for the last 90 or so years? It's only been in the past 10 years that we've had crazies walking into a building and start shooting kids.

This is incorrect.

educate me then. What cluster of mass shootings have we had before the 90s.?

(I'm not counting gang violence. That was a criminal directing death at other criminals.)

there was that fella in texas in the bell tower. think that was the 60s. but that wasn't the norm back then. i was wearing an onion tied to my belt, as was the style at the time

http://blog.oup.com/2012/09/seven-myths-of-mass-murder/

I'm not sure how legit the study is but it does have a few examples of mas murder (bombings etc) and they hover around 20/year.
 
2012-12-18 12:30:34 PM
If the dawn were red, would you rather be the mayor or a Wolverine?
 
2012-12-18 12:33:53 PM

MethylTryp: A lot of the black market relies on the importation of cigarettes from states without the ridiculous taxes. If the tax is a federal tax, not just state, that black market becomes much harder to create.

Also as I understand it rebuilt rounds can't really be rebuilt a second time. Seems like a temporary problem.

I know of some people that have reloaded the brass > 40 times and have heard of people reloading > 100 times. It depends on how tight the chamber is etc, if you neck size vs full length size, rifle vs pistol, Aneal the neck.... Semi rifles are usually around 3 and done. Bolts are usually 7-15 depending on quality of brass.
 
2012-12-18 12:35:53 PM

Private_Citizen: The lower is the only regulated part - the rest can be legally ordered over the internet and shipped to your house with no checks.


The hypothetical being discussed here is, "If they couldn't be legally ordered over the internet, people could just 3D print them."
 
2012-12-18 12:37:29 PM

mstang1988: MethylTryp: A lot of the black market relies on the importation of cigarettes from states without the ridiculous taxes. If the tax is a federal tax, not just state, that black market becomes much harder to create.

Also as I understand it rebuilt rounds can't really be rebuilt a second time. Seems like a temporary problem.
I know of some people that have reloaded the brass > 40 times and have heard of people reloading > 100 times. It depends on how tight the chamber is etc, if you neck size vs full length size, rifle vs pistol, Aneal the neck.... Semi rifles are usually around 3 and done. Bolts are usually 7-15 depending on quality of brass.


My father in law was in the Viet Minh and started out as an 8 year old kid that reloaded for the various bolt actions they had before moving up to guerilla fighter. He told me ~35 to 40 times before the failure rate become problematic. Of course after the 15 you cited, there was definitely an uptick with the ammo failing.

Of course if you can run a resistance in Vietnam based on uneducated 8 year olds doing your ammo reloads for you, odds are in America you can set up a machine shop and crank that shiat out with new brass as needed.
 
2012-12-18 12:42:53 PM

redmid17: vpb: It works in other countries. Gun nuts like to point at Switzerland because military members keep their rifles at home. What they don't mention is that they are not allowed to keep ammunition. It isn't allowed to leave the range except for certain authorized units.

Not this shiat again. The army stopped providing ammunition but anyone an walk into a gun store and buy the *exact* same type of ammunition they use in their Army-issued weapons.


I just looked it up. The one and only place a citizen can buy ammunition in Switzerland is at a state sponsored firing range. The ammunition is bought from the government and it must be used on the range. All ammo is accounted for.

Prior to 2007, Swiss militiamen were issued 50 rounds of ammunition, which was in a sealed container and was regularly audited to insure there was no unauthorized use. The intent of the ammunition was for use while traveling to their army barracks in the event of an invasion. In 2007, they changed the law and militiamen were no longer issued ammunition. All previously issued ammunition had to be returned and accounted for.

Licensed gun shops in Switzerland are allowed to sell black powder for use in historical weapons, but not cartridges. Recreational shooting is encouraged by the government, especially for children and militiamen, but it is strictly controlled. The only people allowed to cary a gun on their person in public are those who work in professions that necessitates the practice. Carrying permits are issued only for a specific gun and are valid for five years. Guns may only be transported to certain events, such as hunting, to a military barracks, and gun shows. The weapon must be unloaded and any ammunition (for those 2000 militiamen still authorized to posses ammunition) must be transported separately from the weapon.

There are many more regulations that both encourage and control gun ownership and use. The 2010 death rate caused by guns in Switzerland is 0.52 per 100K. Compare this to the US: 2.98 per 100K, which is really not that bad. Gun control can work, but it would take decades for a country like the US to institute Switzerland's model here. And it is never going to happen anyway. The opposition would be enormous.
 
2012-12-18 12:43:33 PM

mstang1988: MethylTryp: A lot of the black market relies on the importation of cigarettes from states without the ridiculous taxes. If the tax is a federal tax, not just state, that black market becomes much harder to create.

Also as I understand it rebuilt rounds can't really be rebuilt a second time. Seems like a temporary problem.
I know of some people that have reloaded the brass > 40 times and have heard of people reloading > 100 times. It depends on how tight the chamber is etc, if you neck size vs full length size, rifle vs pistol, Aneal the neck.... Semi rifles are usually around 3 and done. Bolts are usually 7-15 depending on quality of brass.


So a somewhat longer resolution, then. All the rebuilt ammo I ever bought was absolute shiat. I'd be lucky to get four or five out before it either jammed or misfired.
 
2012-12-18 12:43:56 PM

rrife: Englebert Slaptyback: Itstoearly

MethylTryp: Tax the shiat out of it, like cigarettes. $.30/round. Put that money towards these mental health programs that all the gun people think will magically solve our gun violence problems.

30 cents/round is pretty cheap for some of the larger calibers.


Pay attention: that $.30 would be a tax added to the cost of the round.

I think his point is that there isn't much difference between a $6.00 bullet and $6.30 bullet, some higher caliber rounds are quite expensive as they are. Now a $.30 tax on a mostly non-lethal .22lr round would be insane.

I don't have a citation but I believe I read .22lr kills more often then any other caliber in the US. They are lethal to a longer distance then you would want to believe, just less effective for instant knockdown. VT shooter used a P22 as one of his and the FiveSeven the Killen guy used isn't much more then a .22 magnum.
 
2012-12-18 12:44:51 PM

MethylTryp: A lot of the black market relies on the importation of cigarettes from states without the ridiculous taxes. If the tax is a federal tax, not just state, that black market becomes much harder to create.

Also as I understand it rebuilt rounds can't really be rebuilt a second time. Seems like a temporary problem.


Sure they can. You may need to measure the over all length and trim the case if it has stretched too long but resizing and trimming cases is part of the reloading process. Cases that start with thick walls can be reloaded many times.
 
2012-12-18 12:46:02 PM

JackieRabbit: redmid17: vpb: It works in other countries. Gun nuts like to point at Switzerland because military members keep their rifles at home. What they don't mention is that they are not allowed to keep ammunition. It isn't allowed to leave the range except for certain authorized units.

Not this shiat again. The army stopped providing ammunition but anyone an walk into a gun store and buy the *exact* same type of ammunition they use in their Army-issued weapons.

I just looked it up. The one and only place a citizen can buy ammunition in Switzerland is at a state sponsored firing range. The ammunition is bought from the government and it must be used on the range. All ammo is accounted for.

Prior to 2007, Swiss militiamen were issued 50 rounds of ammunition, which was in a sealed container and was regularly audited to insure there was no unauthorized use. The intent of the ammunition was for use while traveling to their army barracks in the event of an invasion. In 2007, they changed the law and militiamen were no longer issued ammunition. All previously issued ammunition had to be returned and accounted for.


Where do you think the Swiss buy their ammo for hunting?
 
2012-12-18 12:46:08 PM

mstang1988: I don't have a citation but I believe I read .22lr kills more often then any other caliber in the US. They are lethal to a longer distance then you would want to believe, just less effective for instant knockdown. VT shooter used a P22 as one of his and the FiveSeven the Killen guy used isn't much more then a .22 magnum.


And more likely to have safety rules disregarded. It's just a .22, feels like a damn toy... until one goes through your buddy's eyeball.
 
2012-12-18 12:53:11 PM
If someone can 3d print a gun, won't they just 3d print the bullets too?

/Deep thoughts...
 
2012-12-18 12:59:55 PM

MethylTryp: mstang1988: MethylTryp: A lot of the black market relies on the importation of cigarettes from states without the ridiculous taxes. If the tax is a federal tax, not just state, that black market becomes much harder to create.

Also as I understand it rebuilt rounds can't really be rebuilt a second time. Seems like a temporary problem.
I know of some people that have reloaded the brass > 40 times and have heard of people reloading > 100 times. It depends on how tight the chamber is etc, if you neck size vs full length size, rifle vs pistol, Aneal the neck.... Semi rifles are usually around 3 and done. Bolts are usually 7-15 depending on quality of brass.

So a somewhat longer resolution, then. All the rebuilt ammo I ever bought was absolute shiat. I'd be lucky to get four or five out before it either jammed or misfired.


Yes, a very long term resolution and really, what does it solve? It only takes a few hundred rounds fired once. There is so much brass and ammo available it's crazy. I bet the availability really skyrockets once we pull out of the middle east (Think of all the manufactures that will be forced to flood the market with overruns to keep their facilities busy). I'm an avid shooter and shoot a few larger rifle calibers. Reloading is a must and reloading something correctly with huge charges is a must!
 
2012-12-18 01:03:08 PM

ha-ha-guy: mstang1988: MethylTryp: A lot of the black market relies on the importation of cigarettes from states without the ridiculous taxes. If the tax is a federal tax, not just state, that black market becomes much harder to create.

Also as I understand it rebuilt rounds can't really be rebuilt a second time. Seems like a temporary problem.
I know of some people that have reloaded the brass > 40 times and have heard of people reloading > 100 times. It depends on how tight the chamber is etc, if you neck size vs full length size, rifle vs pistol, Aneal the neck.... Semi rifles are usually around 3 and done. Bolts are usually 7-15 depending on quality of brass.

My father in law was in the Viet Minh and started out as an 8 year old kid that reloaded for the various bolt actions they had before moving up to guerilla fighter. He told me ~35 to 40 times before the failure rate become problematic. Of course after the 15 you cited, there was definitely an uptick with the ammo failing.

Of course if you can run a resistance in Vietnam based on uneducated 8 year olds doing your ammo reloads for you, odds are in America you can set up a machine shop and crank that shiat out with new brass as needed.


I would be curious as to how light of a charge they are running and what calibers. On federal brass in .308 I hear the primer pockets start weakening around 5 rounds and need to be disposed of and most large rifle brass is stressed and doesn't last that long at a full charge (trying to get the highest velocities with accuracy and no signs of pressure). I guess you can go to the extreme when you don't care about your soldiers lives though so 35-40 is not without question. I would also like to see somebody physically collect the brass in war, I don't think that really happens.
 
2012-12-18 01:04:00 PM

way south: If someone can 3d print a gun, won't they just 3d print the bullets too?

/Deep thoughts...


Not primer and smokeless powders.
 
2012-12-18 01:04:04 PM

poot_rootbeer: MythDragon: educate me then. What cluster of mass shootings have we had before the 90s.?

(I'm not counting gang violence. That was a criminal directing death at other criminals.)

Are there any other special exemptions you'd like to carve out before I point you to the easily-discoverable Wikipedia page listing them?


Government sanctioned murders don't count either. (Kent State)
Lets, see...Also shootings done by cops.
Oh, and anything done in the name of Jesus. That too.
 
2012-12-18 01:09:09 PM

Private_Citizen: cig-mkr: Tat'dGreaser: cig-mkr: 3-D printing isn't new by any means, we used to call it "stereolithography" in the early 90's.
Worked in a prototype NASA related machine shop that had one.
hush hush, top secret.

We had two at my college, weird how things change. They're pretty cool devices.

And I'm sure you made a ball within a ball too.
Was cool, could print things that were damn near impossible to machine.
However our liquid became very brittle when finished.

Some of the early processes used very brittle material. But a modern machine/process like FDM from Stratasys is a whole different ballgame. I've printed power tool housings, pressed in motors and used them for extensive testing - without a failure. A cool demo at tradeshows is for them to print a large crescent wrench and let people turn a huge bolt with it.

I don't think manufacturers are ready to use it, but for a private use receiver, they would work fine.


Been out of the trade now for 10 years now, I'm sure things have changed drastically. I was sure they would have had a metal based formula by now.
 
2012-12-18 01:33:58 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Wait... Do the anti-2nd amendment folks actually think you can just print out a firearm?


Anti/pro 2d amendment is irrelevant...in a few years, or less, you WILL be able to print out a firearm; probably not high end, but lethal enough to shoot up a mall, for instance.

Price has dropped on 3D printers about 2/3 in just a couple years, and quality has gone up.
 
2012-12-18 01:35:50 PM

MythDragon: Um, sure you can 3D print a lower reciever, but you can't really do that with the upper part (That's the part the bullets come out of for those that don't know). Well, technically you can. It's possible to craft a fully plastic gun that will fire. Once. You may not enjoy having a palm full of plastic shrapnel though.


Good thing it's impossible to wrap reinforcing wire around a plastic tube...
 
2012-12-18 01:36:38 PM

mstang1988: I would also like to see somebody physically collect the brass in war, I don't think that really happens.


Keep in mind it was guerrilla actions against the French and Japanese, so no fixed lines. The day after the fire fight, the kids would go out, scamper around, and police up whatever brass they could. Kind of like collecting golf balls from the water hazard.

/prior to the Soviets starting to ship large amounts of aid they had 1 gun per 5 people, so yeah losing people was not a big deal
//some units went into battle with spears because that was what they had
 
2012-12-18 01:39:01 PM

DeathCipris: Wow...just wow...
You can't manufacturer an entire firearm with a 3d printer.


And two years ago, the average homeowner couldn't even manufacture PART of one.

Your assumption seems to be that this technology has reached its apex...which I think is flawed.

The time to think about this is now, not after every house has a 3D milling machine that costs less than a good coffee grinder...

/yes, I'm exaggerating for effect
//the question is, how much?
 
2012-12-18 01:41:26 PM

A Shambling Mound: Kit Fister: Except they make 3d printers that will print in steel or titanium...

I am aware of prototyping machines that can work titanium. They are readily available if you'd like to trade your house for one. I mean, assuming your house is worth enough.

As for steel, I'm pretty sure all the 3d printing applications that use the material are a mixture of stainless steel and bronze. Even then the produced components wouldn't hold up if used in a firearm. It's stronger than the polymers used in typical 3d printing but you could still destroy the resulting object with your bare hands.


For now.

Good thing we're not making any advances in polymer science at this time.
 
2012-12-18 01:42:44 PM

cig-mkr: 3-D printing isn't new by any means, we used to call it "stereolithography" in the early 90's.
Worked in a prototype NASA related machine shop that had one.
hush hush, top secret.


What's new is I can buy that formerly hush-hush machine for $800. And use it to print out MORE 3D printers.

Which is kinda cool, actually.
 
2012-12-18 02:01:17 PM
So when we have removed all firearms and ammunition from society, we can all sit around and read poetry and discuss butterfly collecting.

//I'd rather paper cut my throat.

The real argument is that the anti gun folks won't quit until all scary guns are gone by offering one common sense regulation after another and the pro gun folks see through this scam. While there are a vast number of people somewhere in the middle of the two extremes, they don't seem to make policy or have the power to beat to death the lunatic fringes.

///lude///
 
2012-12-18 03:00:53 PM
Every time there's a shooting these same plans get floated around. Now don't get me wrong, I think it would be cool to see what happened if you taxed ammo at $1 a round or whatever. You'd see about ten years worth of R&D on caseless ammo happen in 6 months, and some wicked cool weapons that could hold maybe a thousand rounds and still be shoulder fired.

But let's get back to reality. Ammo restrictions won't work. You'll have better luck minting trillion dollar coins to fix the deficit.

The workable solution is accountability. Rough idea - grade each weapon from 1 to 10, with a bolt action low caliber rifle being somewhere around a 2, and a belt-fed 50cal Browning being a 10. Semiauto carbines maybe a 7. Make laws according to those levels. Anything 3 and above has to be registered and tracked by the government. With anything 6 or above, the registered owner has to have the weapon locked up or in sight at all times. No exceptions. Your brother gains access to your AR15, you go to jail. Mental health evaluations start at 3. At 8 you need a note from a psychologist. You get the idea.

We already do this partially. You can't get a full auto without a FFL. Just make it a spectrum so that everyone is happy. It'll be a lot easier to get a note from your doctor and do some paperwork than it will be to print an AR15 lower receiver. No more wharrgarble over what is an assault weapon and what isn't. Each weapon gets it's own rating.
 
2012-12-18 03:00:58 PM
So, any word on whether or not the law would consider these "home made guns".

Because those are still totally legal, and don't seem to be in danger of being illegal any time soon.

Also, Fark, we have to talk.

img201.imageshack.us

You're slacking.
 
2012-12-18 03:13:12 PM
black powder revolvers that run on children's caps.
 
2012-12-18 03:17:32 PM
Mmmm they can figure out how to print a fully functional gun.

But could never ever figure out how to print the bullets.. No siree that's just too damn hard
 
2012-12-18 03:25:21 PM

poot_rootbeer: Kit Fister: Except they make 3d printers that will print in steel or titanium...

3D-printed metal parts have different structural properties than those that are cast from molten metal, or stamped or milled from solid metals.


Or to put it another way, you'll be creating a hand grenade that will take off the users hand.
 
2012-12-18 03:42:21 PM
I Haven't seen anyone come up with a justification for owning assault rifles or automatic weapons.

Most people outside the US would see a good starting point for a definition of "mentally ill" being anyone who thinks guns that can fire 100's of rounds in minutes is fine.

How about an experiment?

If it is impossible to get some people to give up their guns, why not isolate them?

Instead of Jesusland, set up Crazyland - tell all the gun nuts, evo- and climate-change deniers, anti-vaccs and no-Medicare believers that they can live there. (rural Kentucky etc etc)

Everywhere else start restricting guns. You'd soon get data to tell which place was better or safer to live in.
 
2012-12-18 03:44:43 PM

mjjt: Most people outside the US would see a good starting point for a definition of "mentally ill" being anyone who thinks guns that can fire 100's of rounds in minutes is fine.


Go sit in a corner and be a good little biatch until the FBI needs to perform illegal raids in your country again.
 
2012-12-18 03:53:14 PM

jgilb: It's only happening in the USA and to white males, so I'm not sure it the draw of celebrity as the cause.


Here's the not-very-white Beltway sniper:
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-12-18 05:11:21 PM

Triumph: vpb: Gun nuts like to point at Switzerland

What's your definition of a "gun nut?" Someone who believes in the Bill of Rights?


I don't know about anyone else, but anyone so worked up about their right to own a device designed to be lethal that they pull the "B-b-but Switzerland!" argument like some kind who's whining that mom insisted - INSISTED - that he's allowed to stay up late.
 
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