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(The Atlantic)   In a world of 3-D-printed guns, Chris Rock's "bullet control" makes more sense   (theatlantic.com) divider line 208
    More: Unlikely, shooting sprees, guns  
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9554 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Dec 2012 at 10:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-18 03:20:11 AM
The argument always made sense.
 
2012-12-18 05:16:20 AM
I'm sure we won't have any class war talk when the rich are the only ones with guns. Only the boot strappy people have guns. Stop being jealous of the 1%.
 
2012-12-18 07:40:57 AM
Because it of course is impossible to make your own bullets
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-18 07:51:05 AM

stratagos: Because it of course is impossible to make your own bullets


Pretty much. Even re-loaders need supplies.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-18 07:58:01 AM
It works in other countries. Gun nuts like to point at Switzerland because military members keep their rifles at home. What they don't mention is that they are not allowed to keep ammunition. It isn't allowed to leave the range except for certain authorized units.
 
2012-12-18 09:00:09 AM

vpb: stratagos: Because it of course is impossible to make your own bullets

Pretty much. Even re-loaders need supplies.


I'm willing to bet I can get lead, saltpeter, sulfer and charcoal if I set my mind to it
 
2012-12-18 09:06:54 AM
Uh. Any gun manufactured like that would fall apart after a few rounds. It requires well-made metal parts that are machined to fit perfectly, or the sheer force from the round will rip it to shreds. Newton's laws, and all that.

Also, bulletsaren't terribly difficult to make, nor is gunpowder. The primers could cause issue, reloading them is really, really dangerous.

This is not a problem we can just wave away with a simple amount of legislation. It's going to require a multi-step buyback of firearms, investment in mental health programs, regulation of magazines and ammunition, and probably some serious cultural changes (specifically the media) before tragedies like Sandy Hook stop happening. It will be long, hard and really goddamn expensive. It will be immensely unpopular - the left will say it's not good enough, the right will say it's too much, but it's the only real option.
 
2012-12-18 09:57:24 AM

vpb: Gun nuts like to point at Switzerland


What's your definition of a "gun nut?" Someone who believes in the Bill of Rights?
 
2012-12-18 10:15:16 AM
The bullet is part of the cartridge.
 
2012-12-18 10:16:06 AM
Shotgun shells aren't hard to make.
 
2012-12-18 10:16:24 AM
We do not live in a world of 3-d printed guns.
 
2012-12-18 10:17:49 AM
Wouldn't pull the trigger on that thing. After a few rounds it would blow up in your face.
 
2012-12-18 10:18:36 AM

Coolfusis: Uh. Any gun manufactured like that would fall apart after a few rounds. It requires well-made metal parts that are machined to fit perfectly, or the sheer force from the round will rip it to shreds. Newton's laws, and all that.



3D printers today are like computers of the 70s. Big industrial ones cost a fortune, personal desktops are mostly toys. That will change swiftly.
 
2012-12-18 10:19:39 AM
They still could regulate the primers I suppose, those take a bit more to make than just gunpowder.
 
2012-12-18 10:20:16 AM
Because it's impossible to make your own bullets
 
2012-12-18 10:20:22 AM
Wait... Do the anti-2nd amendment folks actually think you can just print out a firearm?
 
2012-12-18 10:20:29 AM

Coolfusis


Uh. Any gun manufactured like that would fall apart after a few rounds. It requires well-made metal parts that are machined to fit perfectly, or the sheer force from the round will rip it to shreds. Newton's laws, and all that.


Unless it's a .22 variant (short, long, or long rifle).
 
2012-12-18 10:20:32 AM
Guns that explode after shooting a few rounds? Looks familiar...
assets-dev.sbndev.net
 
2012-12-18 10:20:57 AM
The writer is a moron. FTA:

"It doesn't say a single thing about the right to own bullets. At the time of the adoption of the Constitution, bullets were largely inert slugs, loaded into flint-lock muskets propelled with loose gunpowder packed into the muzzle. There was no need to assure the right to ammunition, which may be the loophole the government needs to dramatically curtail the scourge of gun violence."

Arms is a broad term and includes not only the guns (or any personal weapon a soldier would be using) but also the things necessary for it, like ammunition. This argument the writer is using is as stupid as the one that claims it only covered muskets.
 
2012-12-18 10:20:58 AM

stratagos: vpb: stratagos: Because it of course is impossible to make your own bullets

Pretty much. Even re-loaders need supplies.

I'm willing to bet I can get lead, saltpeter, sulfer and charcoal if I set my mind to it


Who do you think your are?

subspacecomms.com
 
2012-12-18 10:21:09 AM

stratagos: Because it of course is impossible to make your own bullets


If somebody is committed enough to their cause to hammer copper sheets into misshapen bullet casings and refine their own urine into saltpeter for homemade gunpowder, I say let them do it.

They'll get about five rounds off before they jam their weapon, and then their compound will be leveled by a drone strike.
 
2012-12-18 10:21:21 AM

Biness: Shotgun shells aren't hard to make.


Shells as reliable as the ones off the shelf, starting from raw materials, are.
 
2012-12-18 10:21:23 AM

Coolfusis: Uh. Any gun manufactured like that would fall apart after a few rounds. It requires well-made metal parts that are machined to fit perfectly, or the sheer force from the round will rip it to shreds. Newton's laws, and all that.

Also, bulletsaren't terribly difficult to make, nor is gunpowder. The primers could cause issue, reloading them is really, really dangerous.

This is not a problem we can just wave away with a simple amount of legislation. It's going to require a multi-step buyback of firearms, investment in mental health programs, regulation of magazines and ammunition, and probably some serious cultural changes (specifically the media) before tragedies like Sandy Hook stop happening. It will be long, hard and really goddamn expensive. It will be immensely unpopular - the left will say it's not good enough, the right will say it's too much, but it's the only real option.


Except they make 3d printers that will print in steel or titanium...
 
2012-12-18 10:21:45 AM

Triumph: vpb: Gun nuts like to point at Switzerland

What's your definition of a "gun nut?" Someone who believes in the Bill of Rights?


Believing in the Bill of Rights makes you a radical these days.
 
2012-12-18 10:22:11 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Wait... Do the anti-2nd amendment folks actually think you can just print out a firearm?


The part that makes it more than a very nice pipe, yes.
 
2012-12-18 10:22:39 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Wait... Do the anti-2nd amendment folks actually think you can just print out a firearm?


It might not be long before you're able to but I'm not sure what advancement in decentralized manufacturing processes has to do with the 2nd amendment.
 
2012-12-18 10:24:28 AM
Um, sure you can 3D print a lower reciever, but you can't really do that with the upper part (That's the part the bullets come out of for those that don't know). Well, technically you can. It's possible to craft a fully plastic gun that will fire. Once. You may not enjoy having a palm full of plastic shrapnel though.

How long have we hard 'modern' guns? About a 100 years or so. Since the first couple of semi-automatic weapons came out (the 1911 and a few before) guns really haven't changed very much. So we have had 'high power' guns with 'large capacity' magazines for a good century now. If guns were the cause of shootings, where have all the mass school and mall shootings been for the last 90 or so years? It's only been in the past 10 years that we've had crazies walking into a building and start shooting kids. The guns have been around long before that. And restrictions have gotten much tighter since the 1900s. Obviously there is another issue here. We need to look at why people are crazy. Is it too much lead in the water? Antibiotics in the meat? CIA brainscanners not calibrated properly? If people wheren't going on mass public shootings 20 years ago, why has it suddenly become a thing?
 
2012-12-18 10:24:59 AM
It looks to me like we need to regulate 3-D printers if this is the case.
 
2012-12-18 10:25:28 AM

stratagos: vpb: stratagos: Because it of course is impossible to make your own bullets

Pretty much. Even re-loaders need supplies.

I'm willing to bet I can get lead, saltpeter, sulfer and charcoal if I set my mind to it


Sulfer and some form of carbon are easy. I bought a big box of sulfer at a hardware store (garden section). Of course, it came in pellets so I had to spend some time with the mortar and pestle to make it a powder.

The potassium nitrate (salt peter) was more difficult. I was under age at the time, but I brought my dad on board and, with his help, we were able to order a 10 lb container of it from a fireworks supplier. There were a few hoops to jump through (what with this messed up post 9/11 world we live in), but I told them what I was going to do with it and they thought it sounded cool.

I bought those supplies to make my own model rocket engines. I got really into rocketry in high school. I fancy myself a bit of an amateur rocket scientist. There's really not that much to it. The physics is all fairly straight forward... the chemistry is pretty basic. And before you brush me off as some internet kook, I really did put in a lot of time researching the field. Of course, if I was really on the ball, I would have gone through the process of getting legitimately certified. But that's not the kind of person I am.

A few years later I got bored of rockets and moved on to pneumatic potato guns. My masterpiece was a 13 foot long cannon with a 2" diameter barrel. I built the release valve myself. Housed it in a 6" PVC T fitting.

I considered getting into lasers next, but then I graduated college, got a serious girlfriend and a job... the time and money just aren't there at the moment.
 
2012-12-18 10:25:39 AM
why don't we just regulate SSRIs instead? They are the main factor in most of these mass shootings anyway.
 
2012-12-18 10:25:47 AM
Take away our guns and someone will just make a phaser. Might be a cool thing to have happen and not to mention all the less lead ammo lying around...
 
2012-12-18 10:26:03 AM

Kit Fister: Except they make 3d printers that will print in steel or titanium...


3D-printed metal parts have different structural properties than those that are cast from molten metal, or stamped or milled from solid metals.
 
2012-12-18 10:26:13 AM
What's to stop me from saving my brass and reloading my own bullets?

Lead is sooooo strong it can't be formed into a bullet without Remington's machines.
DERP DERP
 
2012-12-18 10:26:19 AM
Why is the answer always more and bigger government....Maybe we should start in the home...Where DAD should be!!!
 
2012-12-18 10:26:21 AM

Triumph: vpb: Gun nuts like to point at Switzerland

What's your definition of a "gun nut?" Someone who believes in selected portions of the Bill of Rights, applied to selected portions of the population?

 
2012-12-18 10:26:30 AM
Tax the shiat out of it, like cigarettes. $.30/round. Put that money towards these mental health programs that all the gun people think will magically solve our gun violence problems.
 
2012-12-18 10:26:54 AM

MythDragon: If guns were the cause of shootings, where have all the mass school and mall shootings been for the last 90 or so years? It's only been in the past 10 years that we've had crazies walking into a building and start shooting kids.


This is incorrect.
 
2012-12-18 10:27:52 AM

black_knight: Guns that explode after shooting a few rounds? Looks familiar...
[assets-dev.sbndev.net image 300x300]

I wish they made guns like that. I have a really hard time reloading weapons since I lost both of my thumbs in a horrifc foreplay accident.
 
2012-12-18 10:28:17 AM

MythDragon: Um, sure you can 3D print a lower reciever, but you can't really do that with the upper part (That's the part the bullets come out of for those that don't know). Well, technically you can. It's possible to craft a fully plastic gun that will fire. Once. You may not enjoy having a palm full of plastic shrapnel though.


There are printers that work with materials other than plastic. They're still a bit pricey, but how much does it cost to acquire a fully legal full-auto weapon?
 
2012-12-18 10:29:11 AM
The real issue is that reloading is not a big thing right now given how cheaply you can get bulk ammo. Between the time to reload and that risks that stem from having a shiatload of gun powder sitting around in a cask, most people prefer just to buy bulk ammo even if it costs more.

If you make bullets harder to get, more people will get into reloading and we'll have a whole cottage industry of selling reloads.

The general issue with expensive bullets is that guns are the most useful when the act of drawing and firing the weapon is muscle memory. It's why the military and police spend so much time on the range. It's also why self defense instructors tell people to practice. The gun is no good against the rapist if you just freeze up. By making bullets more expensive you reduce the range time and expertise of legit gun owners. You can do a lot of the initial training with a CO2 blowback gun that has the same weight and shape as your handgun, but at the end of the day you need to send real rounds down range to get used to the recoil.
 
2012-12-18 10:29:17 AM

Triumph: vpb: Gun nuts like to point at Switzerland

What's your definition of a "gun nut?" Someone who believes in the Bill of Rights?


He means anyone that doesn't piss themselves and sob uncontrollably in the corner at the thought of a firearm
 
2012-12-18 10:30:12 AM

pyrotek85: ...Arms is a broad term and includes not only the guns (or any personal weapon a soldier would be using) but also the things necessary for it, like ammunition...


And this is why we have people like you interpreting law and the constitution.
 
2012-12-18 10:30:46 AM

ha-ha-guy: The real issue is that reloading is not a big thing right now given how cheaply you can get bulk ammo. Between the time to reload and that risks that stem from having a shiatload of gun powder sitting around in a cask, most people prefer just to buy bulk ammo even if it costs more.

If you make bullets harder to get, more people will get into reloading and we'll have a whole cottage industry of selling reloads.

The general issue with expensive bullets is that guns are the most useful when the act of drawing and firing the weapon is muscle memory. It's why the military and police spend so much time on the range. It's also why self defense instructors tell people to practice. The gun is no good against the rapist if you just freeze up. By making bullets more expensive you reduce the range time and expertise of legit gun owners. You can do a lot of the initial training with a CO2 blowback gun that has the same weight and shape as your handgun, but at the end of the day you need to send real rounds down range to get used to the recoil.


I have a feeling that people who bring up regulation like this don't like guns at all.
 
2012-12-18 10:30:49 AM

poot_rootbeer: MythDragon: If guns were the cause of shootings, where have all the mass school and mall shootings been for the last 90 or so years? It's only been in the past 10 years that we've had crazies walking into a building and start shooting kids.

This is incorrect.


educate me then. What cluster of mass shootings have we had before the 90s.?

(I'm not counting gang violence. That was a criminal directing death at other criminals.)
 
2012-12-18 10:31:07 AM
The pro-gun crowd has argued themselves into a corner. If their argument is everyone have a gun, then every 6 year old needs a gun. If their argument is less gun control, then everyone should be able to buy bazookas. If their argument is more criminal prosecution, then every slightly weird person should be what? Locked up?

The jig is up, there's too many guns, too many powerful guns, too much gun worship and fetishes. Time to come down hard on these 100 round automatic killing machines.

They serve no purpose but to mass kill.
 
2012-12-18 10:31:16 AM

MethylTryp: Tax the shiat out of it, like cigarettes. $.30/round. Put that money towards these mental health programs that all the gun people think will magically solve our gun violence problems.


30 cents/round is pretty cheap for some of the larger calibers.
 
2012-12-18 10:31:28 AM

Coolfusis:
This is not a problem we can just wave away with a simple amount of legislation. It's going to require a multi-step buyback of firearms, investment in mental health programs, regulation of magazines and ammunition, and probably some serious cultural changes (specifically the media) before tragedies like Sandy Hook stop happening. It will be long, hard and really goddamn expensive. It will be immensely unpopular - the left will say it's not good enough, the right will say it's too much, but it's the only real option.


Hey there, stop making sense! We want easy solutions that should please everyone at once, if you don't have that we don't want to hear it! Good day, sir!
 
2012-12-18 10:31:36 AM

vpb: It works in other countries. Gun nuts like to point at Switzerland because military members keep their rifles at home. What they don't mention is that they are not allowed to keep ammunition. It isn't allowed to leave the range except for certain authorized units.


Swiss reservists who maintain a firearm also keep a sealed tin of ammunition. That tin is checked annually when the reservist reports for duty: if the tin is unsealed, the person goes to jail. Most ammunition in Switzerland is sold at shooting ranges, and the law says that it must be used at the range. However, enforcement of that law can be spotty.
 
2012-12-18 10:31:40 AM

ElLoco: It looks to me like we need to regulate 3-D printers if this is the case.


"Guns don't kill people, 3-D printers that print guns kill people"?
 
2012-12-18 10:32:23 AM

NeoBad: Take away our guns and someone will just make a phaser. Might be a cool thing to have happen and not to mention all the less lead ammo lying around...


Done.
 
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