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(Daily Mail)   Doctors to mother of three girls: The good news: Your hysterectomy was successful. Now the bad news: You were pregnant and we aborted the son you always wanted   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 120
    More: Scary, hysterectomy, Richard Engel, General Medical Council, prenatal development, school violence, get to the point, Rob Jones  
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15094 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Dec 2012 at 10:45 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-17 11:44:35 PM  
Why is it possible to book a hysterectomy at that hospital without having a negative pregnancy test (or deliberately falsifying a form, in which case the doc is farked)?

Fix the system and it won't happen again. Punish one person on the team for (tragic) human error and not a lot is accomplished except encouraging sweeping mistakes under the rug.

/puts on flame-retardant suit
 
2012-12-17 11:45:29 PM  

drwiki: Fix the system and it won't happen again.


This is the NHS. It is fixed.
 
2012-12-17 11:46:11 PM  
 
2012-12-17 11:52:41 PM  

Ambivalence: I thought it was normal practice to give women pregnancy tests before any moderate to major medical procedure. I could tell a doctor there is absolutely NO way I'm pregnant and they still give me the pee test. Every...single...time.


Yup. When you're a woman of childbearing age, the very first thing every medical professional asks you to do is pee in a friggin' cup.
 
2012-12-17 11:56:20 PM  

Tenatra: Is it just me or does she look like she's wearing a bunch of noodles around her neck?


It's how they mourn in Cornwall. fark you're insensitive of other cultures.
 
2012-12-17 11:57:39 PM  

queen biatch of the universe: Ambivalence: I thought it was normal practice to give women pregnancy tests before any moderate to major medical procedure. I could tell a doctor there is absolutely NO way I'm pregnant and they still give me the pee test. Every...single...time.

Oh they do, I got sterilized at 24. Before my tubes got tied - pregnancy test. Since getting fixed:

Radiation therapy for the first round breast cancer - pregnancy test

Mastectomy for the second round of breast cancer- pregnancy test

Chemo therapy - pregnancy test

Reconstruction of my breast - pregnancy test

I'm pretty sure they gave her a pregnancy test, the test are not always accurate and sadly this one slipped though. Based on she was 14 weeks pregnant and didn't know, I'm assuming something weird was going on with the pregnancy that helped it escape detection. I had three failed pregnancies before getting sterilized and I always knew by 8 weeks, it's pretty hard not to notice you skipped your period for two months. But sometimes weird stuff happens, she might have still had a light period which may have led to it not being detected. It's very sad what happened but a person has to accept that medical science is not 100%. My cancer was not completely destroyed the first time around since some of it evaded detection for a period of time. It came back worse for round two, but I don't blame the hospital - they gave me the best care they could provide with the technology we have.


Again, with respect, neither I nor my youngest daughter have ever had regular periods. It's actually quite easy to get used to only having a period once a year.

Sorry about the cancer, but you probably got far more tests than this woman. The "uncomfortable woman" who wants a hysterectomy will still get one, without many tests.

Naturally, she was done with the birthing thing (three strikes and all). She could likely have paid for more tests, but the standard is becoming...the Brito-Canadian standard. Do nothing unless the person is adamant about paying for it. My doctor's office has brochures about all these optional, non-insurance-paid for tests...
 
2012-12-17 11:57:41 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: namatad: jaylectricity: namatad: SecretAgentWoman: A gynecologist that can't figure out a mother is 14 weeks pregnant before surgery should never be allowed to practice medicine again. WTF?

a mother who was 14 weeks pregnant should not be allowed to have children ... or live
seriously, DERP
not like there were no way for this tard to go to the store and buy a test kit

Don't act dumb. She didn't expect to be pregnant, she wasn't trying to get pregnant. She went to the doctor to have an operation concerning her reproductive system.

It's common sense to do a pregnancy test on her before the surgery.

and therefore why would she be upset about the operation being a success?
did expect?
did expect that having sex could lead to a baby?
STRANGE, they said she already had children. You would think after 3 children that you would learn that SEX leads to BABIES.

14 weeks? So she did have he period for 3+ months, AFTER having sex?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I wonder what could be the reason for that.

WHY was she have the Hysterectomy? so that she couldnt get pregnant anymore?
Yes, I know, without details it could have been endo or any one of a billion other reasons.
But in the end, she had no expectation of a baby when she went to have her uterus taken out.

WHY is it that no one is responsible anymore?
IF a baby was so important, why did she have the operation to start with?
WHY was she extra careful about getting tested before the surgery??

Sick and tired of the "it is someone else's fault" syndrome.
I guess the best thing happened, aborting the baby. She would have raised a terrible child.

meh
whatever
boohooo poor mommy

/sorry not buying it




I have this poster on ignore under the name "Misogynist" if that tells you anything.
 
2012-12-18 12:05:57 AM  

FizixJunkee: I have this poster on ignore under the name "Misogynist" if that tells you anything.


I'm not sure I want to know about his past insanity, but has he gone off the deep end like this before?
 
2012-12-18 12:06:29 AM  

Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: Ambivalence: I thought it was normal practice to give women pregnancy tests before any moderate to major medical procedure. I could tell a doctor there is absolutely NO way I'm pregnant and they still give me the pee test. Every...single...time.

Exactly. When I had surgery they made me take a pee test and they did a blood test just to be certain. There's no way a competent doctor wouldn't have done those tests.


True. When I had surgery to remove a failed pregnancy, they still gave me a blood test to check. Something's fishy here with this story.
 
2012-12-18 12:08:28 AM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: FizixJunkee: I have this poster on ignore under the name "Misogynist" if that tells you anything.

I'm not sure I want to know about his past insanity, but has he gone off the deep end like this before?



I don't remember his exact comments, but they must have been pretty bad. He's the only person I have on ignore.

\I have plenty favorited, though
 
2012-12-18 12:08:31 AM  
They really went out of theit way to add a bunch of pictures of David Cameron and their baby in this article. Awkward.
 
2012-12-18 12:10:26 AM  

Chibi Shinigami: There's a lot of questions here that aren't answered...like:

-Did they give a pregnancy test that turned up negative?
-Did they do a standard of care exam after that which didn't note anything that indicated pregnancy?

If so, it's just a tragic incidence. If not, it's malpractice.


I think that's why she got 62K.
 
2012-12-18 12:12:55 AM  

FizixJunkee: I have this poster on ignore under the name "Misogynist" if that tells you anything.


lol... I have him as "MRA".
 
2012-12-18 12:14:07 AM  

you are a puppet:


Yep, first thing I thought of. Now she and the doctor can run away together and live extravagantly on that £62K.
 
2012-12-18 12:17:03 AM  
I am seriously having a major sad right now. :/ I can't imagine the grief she must be going through.
 
2012-12-18 12:18:42 AM  

KrispyKritter: i'm thinking in the real world when things like this happen the Dr.'s keep their frickin' mouths shut so as not to get sued out of a career.


Really. And you know what? She'd be better off if she never found out. You can't, uh, put the toothpaste back in the tube.

Suckmaster Burstingfoam: Tenatra: Is it just me or does she look like she's wearing a bunch of noodles around her neck?
It's how they mourn in Cornwall. fark you're insensitive of other cultures.


It's no different than wearing a cross around your neck.

lh6.googleusercontent.com
 
2012-12-18 12:22:00 AM  

Theaetetus: FizixJunkee: I have this poster on ignore under the name "Misogynist" if that tells you anything.

lol... I have him as "MRA".


You guys are cute. I have him as "Knows a lot about helium 5571974".
 
2012-12-18 12:30:21 AM  

Tenatra: Is it just me or does she look like she's wearing a bunch of noodles around her neck?

[i.dailymail.co.uk image 634x478]


Ramen is in fashion.
 
2012-12-18 12:30:25 AM  
Presumably, she was having the hysterectomy for a reason. I wonder if she would have even been able to sustain a pregnancy?
 
2012-12-18 12:31:32 AM  
farkin breeder had too many anyway.
 
2012-12-18 12:34:15 AM  

namatad: jaylectricity: namatad: SecretAgentWoman: A gynecologist that can't figure out a mother is 14 weeks pregnant before surgery should never be allowed to practice medicine again. WTF?

a mother who was 14 weeks pregnant should not be allowed to have children ... or live
seriously, DERP
not like there were no way for this tard to go to the store and buy a test kit

Don't act dumb. She didn't expect to be pregnant, she wasn't trying to get pregnant. She went to the doctor to have an operation concerning her reproductive system.

It's common sense to do a pregnancy test on her before the surgery.

and therefore why would she be upset about the operation being a success?
did expect?
did expect that having sex could lead to a baby?
STRANGE, they said she already had children. You would think after 3 children that you would learn that SEX leads to BABIES.

14 weeks? So she did have he period for 3+ months, AFTER having sex?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I wonder what could be the reason for that.

WHY was she have the Hysterectomy? so that she couldnt get pregnant anymore?
Yes, I know, without details it could have been endo or any one of a billion other reasons.
But in the end, she had no expectation of a baby when she went to have her uterus taken out.

WHY is it that no one is responsible anymore?
IF a baby was so important, why did she have the operation to start with?
WHY was she extra careful about getting tested before the surgery??

Sick and tired of the "it is someone else's fault" syndrome.
I guess the best thing happened, aborting the baby. She would have raised a terrible child.

meh
whatever
boohooo poor mommy

/sorry not buying it


Did you have a stroke while writing that?
 
2012-12-18 12:44:36 AM  

Mitrovarr: Presumably, she was having the hysterectomy for a reason. I wonder if she would have even been able to sustain a pregnancy?


This. You don't just lose your baby box for shiats n giggles one day. If it was cancer, might as well have lost the kid.
 
2012-12-18 12:44:48 AM  
Well, pregnant feral cats get spayed...I don't hear any outrage over that!
 
2012-12-18 12:48:33 AM  
For that beast to pregnant, something would had to have Farked it. Unlikely.
 
2012-12-18 12:55:38 AM  

queen biatch of the universe: Ambivalence: I thought it was normal practice to give women pregnancy tests before any moderate to major medical procedure. I could tell a doctor there is absolutely NO way I'm pregnant and they still give me the pee test. Every...single...time.

Oh they do, I got sterilized at 24. Before my tubes got tied - pregnancy test. Since getting fixed:

Radiation therapy for the first round breast cancer - pregnancy test

Mastectomy for the second round of breast cancer- pregnancy test

Chemo therapy - pregnancy test

Reconstruction of my breast - pregnancy test

I'm pretty sure they gave her a pregnancy test, the test are not always accurate and sadly this one slipped though. Based on she was 14 weeks pregnant and didn't know, I'm assuming something weird was going on with the pregnancy that helped it escape detection. I had three failed pregnancies before getting sterilized and I always knew by 8 weeks, it's pretty hard not to notice you skipped your period for two months. But sometimes weird stuff happens, she might have still had a light period which may have led to it not being detected. It's very sad what happened but a person has to accept that medical science is not 100%. My cancer was not completely destroyed the first time around since some of it evaded detection for a period of time. It came back worse for round two, but I don't blame the hospital - they gave me the best care they could provide with the technology we have.



Good luck to you. I hope you are well, and dont have to go through anymore cancer b.s.
 
2012-12-18 12:55:56 AM  

namatad: jaylectricity: namatad: SecretAgentWoman: A gynecologist that can't figure out a mother is 14 weeks pregnant before surgery should never be allowed to practice medicine again. WTF?

a mother who was 14 weeks pregnant should not be allowed to have children ... or live
seriously, DERP
not like there were no way for this tard to go to the store and buy a test kit

Don't act dumb. She didn't expect to be pregnant, she wasn't trying to get pregnant. She went to the doctor to have an operation concerning her reproductive system.

It's common sense to do a pregnancy test on her before the surgery.

and therefore why would she be upset about the operation being a success?
did expect?
did expect that having sex could lead to a baby?
STRANGE, they said she already had children. You would think after 3 children that you would learn that SEX leads to BABIES.

14 weeks? So she did have he period for 3+ months, AFTER having sex?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I wonder what could be the reason for that.

WHY was she have the Hysterectomy? so that she couldnt get pregnant anymore?
Yes, I know, without details it could have been endo or any one of a billion other reasons.
But in the end, she had no expectation of a baby when she went to have her uterus taken out.

WHY is it that no one is responsible anymore?
IF a baby was so important, why did she have the operation to start with?
WHY was she extra careful about getting tested before the surgery??

Sick and tired of the "it is someone else's fault" syndrome.
I guess the best thing happened, aborting the baby. She would have raised a terrible child.

meh
whatever
boohooo poor mommy

/sorry not buying it


I have no idea why but you are favorited, seriously I need to see where this goes
 
2012-12-18 01:14:41 AM  
Not only a pregnancy test, I'd expect ultrasound to be done for anything more than trivial surgery. It's fast, non-invasive, safe, and the only real expense is the time of the technician. You'd think the surgeon would want a heads-up on any structural abnormalities that they might encounter, no? And a 14-week fetus is going to show up easily...
 
2012-12-18 01:19:28 AM  
Dafuq? Don't they do ultrasounds before doing this kind of thing? Nobody bothered to palpate her stomach?
Wtf.

/nursing student, getting a kick, etc
 
2012-12-18 01:28:05 AM  
I'm guessing that she had been on a list for surgery for months and had a normal, i.e. nonpregnant, ultrasound and physical and by the time they actually got around to doing the surgery 5 or 6 months later they didn't repeat the labs, ultrasound or even the physical exam. The doc lost his "licence" so I'm guessing he falsified that in some way and that's what got him "struck off."

No woman in America has any procedure requiring general anesthesia without a pregnancy test and that includes grandmas. The reason for that is that if some kid is born after inadvertently being subjected to an elective anesthetic and 21 years later if he's not a first round draft pick or a world renown rocket surgeon then it's definitely the hospital's fault and they're going to have to pay out of the ass.
 
2012-12-18 01:53:18 AM  

RandomRandom: What do they call the guy who finished last in his class at medical school?

Doctor.


On top of that, the drop out rate from med school is very low - varies but usually around 5%.
 
2012-12-18 01:56:25 AM  
Wow... First time ever for this... I'm 42 and high on pain pills recovering from my hysterectomy so getting a kick or whatever ha

One off the first things the anesthesiologist said was "good news, you aren't pregnant! We can proceed" he did say its a bad day when that does happen tho so apparently it happens
 
2012-12-18 01:57:04 AM  
Guy graduates 159 out of a class of 160 & says he'll do his best *shudder*
 
2012-12-18 01:57:42 AM  
This is a DailyMail article, so God knows what's really going on, still...

Something is missing from this story. So far as I know pregnancy tests are routine for any kind of... well, major treatment at all. There are so many drugs and procedures that you can't do, or have to manage differently, if the patient is pregnant. The hospital I worked at would give pregnancy a test for walking in the door, and they wouldn't accept,"I can't possibly be pregnant!" You'd practically have to whip out a dong to get 'em to lay off. I remember one of the nurses telling me that their policy was to assume any female was pregnant until proven otherwise.

(I was approached for a pregnancy test when I went in for a minor procedure that didn't even require anesthesia, probably because of my female given name. This led to a mutually embarrassing encounter in which a nurse stopped in the doorway, looked at the balding, bearded dude on the bed, and said, "Welp! I guess you won't be needing this!")

Maybe U.K. is lax on this sort of thing, but it seems unlikely. This reeks of DailyMail batbaby nonsense.
 
2012-12-18 02:19:57 AM  

doglover: Mitrovarr: Presumably, she was having the hysterectomy for a reason. I wonder if she would have even been able to sustain a pregnancy?

This. You don't just lose your baby box for shiats n giggles one day. If it was cancer, might as well have lost the kid.


That was my first thought, hysterectomies aren't done for shiats and giggles, they're major surgery. And I'm calling shenanigans on the lack of pregnancy test, or at the very least I'm thinking it would have been dangerous for her to try to carry the baby to term.

/my cousin in the Navy has to get a pelvic exam every time she goes to the doc, even for a sinus infection.
 
2012-12-18 02:36:58 AM  
Farking UK healthcare. On the plus side, it probably keeps their population in check.
 
2012-12-18 02:42:05 AM  
I feel terrible for the woman, but to go on a slight tangent, I've never fully understood people who had kid after kid after kid all in an attempt to get one of a certain gender. If you're that obsessed with it, I would think adoption would have greater appeal.

I realize that's not a cheap or easy process, but it's gotta be cheaper and easier than giving birth to several others of the "wrong" gender.

david_gaithersburg: Farking UK healthcare. On the plus side, it probably keeps their population in check.


Better than ours, as I understand it. Not flawless, but pretty efficient.
 
2012-12-18 03:15:45 AM  
Add me to the chorus of "Sorry, can't see how this happened, and not just because the story seems to have only appeared in the Daily Fail".

On just having a uterine ablation and tubal ligation done (much less a full-on hysterectomy), there's a goddamn month or two of checking that is best compared to preparing for spaceflight to the moon--multiple pregnancy tests (including at least one blood workup a week before surgery and multiple tests in the gyno's office), two forms of ultrasound (one transvaginal--the sort that Republicans want to force on women who WANT an abortion to guilt-trip them into Having Babby (And Then Giving It To A Dominionist Baby Mill "Private Adoption" Agency)--and the other being transvaginal AND conventional whilst filling the uterus with ultrasound contrast media), multiple gynecological exams, and so on to the point that actual honest-to-Science laparoscopic surgery is a Minor Thing in comparison to the month of workup. This includes, of note, forms LITERALLY signed in quadruplicate to the effect that Yes, Doc, We Realise This Is The End Of The Reproductive Years Already.

Even though a lot of hysterectomies are transvaginal or laparoscopic (bitty incisions mean less trauma), I cannot imagine that the workup would be LESS intense than for a mere ablation and tubal ligation (which is generally outpatient stuff--even with the laparoscopic hysterectomies there's usually an overnight stay unless it's very uncomplicated).

This doesn't mean they catch EVERYTHING--hell, with ablations, there are some women who have to have D&Cs before the ablation proper because they have adhesions that make doing actual work Down There like hacking through the Green Hell of the Brazilian Rainforest--but usually that's something that will show up in the tests before, and even a mid-first-trimester pregnancy SHOULD in theory show up in the initial transvag ultrasound done as workup (and hormones should definitely be indicating pregnancy) unless there is something seriously the fark wrong (and by "seriously the fark wrong" I mean "pregnancy is almost certainly not viable and could well be endangering the life of the mom"--the one instance that would seem most likely to be would be a tubal pregnancy, which a transvag ultrasound wouldn't catch and which is pretty much impossible to carry to term and is considered a medical emergency requiring abortion).
 
2012-12-18 03:17:03 AM  
So she goes in for a surgery that will prevent her from having a kid then is upset when she can't have a kid. Settin' the bar a little high for America aren't we UK?
 
2012-12-18 03:18:11 AM  
No excuse for this at all. that pregnancy should have been detected with out any difficulty at all. hell one would think the enlarged uterus would be grounds to do more test before proceeding.

The hospital screwed up majorly no doubts about it. The woman did too not realizing she was pregnant but that does not excuse the hospital.
 
2012-12-18 03:23:15 AM  

Great Porn Dragon: some women who have to have D&Cs before the ablation proper because they have adhesions that make doing actual work Down There like hacking through the Green Hell of the Brazilian Rainforest


I don't know what language that is. Should I be aroused or disgusted?
 
2012-12-18 03:52:01 AM  
The article purposely leaves out why she had a hysterectomy. Sorry, but people do not have hysterectomies for no reason at all. Certainly not as birth control.
 
2012-12-18 05:02:41 AM  
Some people have normal periods all through their pregnancies...
 
2012-12-18 05:03:15 AM  
The medical staff appears to have done everything they were supposed to. It's not like medical exams are all so magically perfect they can never screw up. They did the best job they were able to at the time, they realized they were wrong during surgery when it was too late to turn back, and they told her about it afterwards because they respected her rights as a human being. They appear to have been pretty responsible.

I understand she's upset - she essentially had an abortion she didn't intend - but nobody appears to have been particularly negligent. They did the standard testing and missed the pregnancy.

I mean, if it's really important to her to spend several years and legal cases telling her daughters "All I wanted was a son, you worthless coonts," then I really don't think her emotions should be respected. Because she clearly doesn't care about anyone else's.
 
2012-12-18 05:10:48 AM  
Well you don't really need to debate whether the hospital messed up or not since the hospital said it did as did the patient. It sounds like they are in agreement.

The part I didn't get--and I assumed there were probably reasons for this I didn't comprehend--is why they wouldn't see the fetus before removing the uterus. I assumed they went in through the vagina and probably looked around while they figured out how to cut out the uterus. And given that the fetus is inside the uterus, I would think they would see it.

However, I looked this up, and I guess there are three ways to do a hysterectomy: through the stomach, through the vagina, and through both the stomach and vagina at the same time (where a small hole is made in the stomach to help guide the work from the vagina).

Even though through the stomach causes the most downtime, it's apparently the most common.

As for those saying she was doing this anyway to not have more babies, I don't think that hysterectomies are commonly done for that reason. That's usually done in the fallopian tubes, AFAIK.

Apparently hysterectomies are commonly done now even when not needed for benign conditions (got that from Wikipedia). I knew someone who had one done and I though she said it was for back problems, but I could be wrong.

Anyhow, I wish I had something funny to say about this story. But it's a downer really.
 
2012-12-18 05:29:10 AM  
She wanted to remove the possibility of further children. She has now removed that possibility and scored £62,000. Win.
 
2012-12-18 05:40:05 AM  
Meh, she had enough babies already.
Sorry you didn't get a boy.
Deal with it.

Really, I don't care.
Have less kids, fugly
 
2012-12-18 05:42:39 AM  
"Okay. You're probably gonna laugh at this but...."
 
2012-12-18 06:20:13 AM  

namatad: SecretAgentWoman: A gynecologist that can't figure out a mother is 14 weeks pregnant before surgery should never be allowed to practice medicine again. WTF?

a mother who was 14 weeks pregnant should not be allowed to have children ... or live
seriously, DERP
not like there were no way for this tard to go to the store and buy a test kit


how original... blame the victim
 
2012-12-18 06:29:17 AM  

FizixJunkee: I have this poster on ignore under the name "Misogynist" if that tells you anything.


same here but:

(ignored: moves goalposts, builds strawmen, and issues logical fallacies)
 
2012-12-18 06:30:44 AM  

sexorcisst: "Okay. You're probably gonna laugh at this but...."


i've got good news and bad news....

the good news is you have 24hrs to live
the bad news is i forgot to tell you yesterday
?
 
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