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(C|Net)   Dell: consumers will get confused with Windows RT, call it something else. Ballmer: Nah, you're crazy. Consumers: I'd like to return this defective product, please   (news.cnet.com) divider line 197
    More: Obvious, Windows, reverse transcriptases, Great Satan, Ballmer, Windows Store  
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11201 clicks; posted to Geek » on 18 Dec 2012 at 12:31 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-18 11:43:46 AM

LasersHurt: Lord Dimwit: Kazan: Lord Dimwit: Microsoft has four app ecosystems: Windows 8 on the Desktop, Windows 8 on the Surface, the Surface RT, and Windows Phone. Yes, I realize that Windows 8 Surface and Windows 8 Desktop are the same thing, but apps not designed to run on the Surface specifically aren't going to work well there.

you might want to check your 'facts'

What there is incorrect?

Win8 desktop IS what will run on the full-power Surface. It will run the same apps as any other desktop (subject to processing power and all, probably not doing CAD on it). It's basically a laptop.


Right, that's what I said. Windows 8 Surface and Windows 8 Desktop are the same thing, but if your app isn't designed to run without a keyboard, it's going to be more difficult to use on the Surface.
 
2012-12-18 11:53:29 AM

Lord Dimwit: Right, that's what I said.


Let's not play fast and loose here. You said that they "aren't going to work well there." You didn't specify that you meant keyboard. Which is a point, but, like... If I got a mini computer, I'd probably get a keyboard.
 
hej
2012-12-18 11:54:09 AM

namatad: why buy a windows tablet to start with?
between droid and ios, WHY would you use anything else?
esp since the turd wont run windows apps??

LOL


I used one in store and thought it was pretty slick. It has "version 1.0" problems, which is to say they're quite solvable. That said, I agree that the notion of dividing Windows 8 into two incompatible platforms was ill advised.
 
2012-12-18 11:54:49 AM

Bacontastesgood: Kazan: that was a rumor

What are you talking about?

Metro was the official 'design language' of the tile phone interface, and was widely promoted up until August this year as the tile interface for W8. Then MS ran into trademark trouble with Metro AG, a German company. So they sent out missives to stop using that term and flirted with the term "Modern" for the UI. At some point they then started calling the UI simply "Windows 8", or sometimes "Microsoft Design Language".

So, it's even more confusing than what I said, but there was no "rumor". This happened, there are numerous press releases and memos. It's a marketing clusterfark because even tech reporters are still using every farking term above to refer to the tile interface.


the lawsuit part was a rumor, specifically.

LasersHurt: Lord Dimwit: Kazan: Lord Dimwit: Microsoft has four app ecosystems: Windows 8 on the Desktop, Windows 8 on the Surface, the Surface RT, and Windows Phone. Yes, I realize that Windows 8 Surface and Windows 8 Desktop are the same thing, but apps not designed to run on the Surface specifically aren't going to work well there.

you might want to check your 'facts'

What there is incorrect?

Win8 desktop IS what will run on the full-power Surface. It will run the same apps as any other desktop (subject to processing power and all, probably not doing CAD on it). It's basically a laptop.


that and a properly written WinRT app should run across all platforms.
 
2012-12-18 11:57:06 AM

Lord Dimwit: Right, that's what I said. Windows 8 Surface and Windows 8 Desktop are the same thing, but if your app isn't designed to run without a keyboard, it's going to be more difficult to use on the Surface.


Surface has three keyboards to chose from - on screen virtual keyboard, touch cover, type cover.

don't be daft.

hej: That said, I agree that the notion of dividing Windows 8 into two incompatible platforms was ill advised.


they're not incompatible, one is just less capable than the other. But yeah, it will create some confusion.

and i have a sneaking suspicion the reason you don't see an x86->ARM caching JIT is "security reasons."
 
2012-12-18 11:59:25 AM
What does RT stand for?
 
2012-12-18 12:03:04 PM

Electrify: What does RT stand for?


For the 10th time
 
2012-12-18 12:08:44 PM
NEWSFLASH: Ballmer is an idiot.
 
2012-12-18 12:11:38 PM

StoPPeRmobile: ATM Machine?


I prefer automatic ATM machines that I can put my personal PIN number into.
 
2012-12-18 12:13:31 PM

LasersHurt: Lord Dimwit: Right, that's what I said.

Let's not play fast and loose here. You said that they "aren't going to work well there." You didn't specify that you meant keyboard. Which is a point, but, like... If I got a mini computer, I'd probably get a keyboard.


Right, except that the Surface is supposed to be all tablet-y. Which is the other problem - they're not differentiating the RT model enough. People are buying the cheaper Surface model and then don't understand why it's not running their Windows 8 apps.

And I still don't understand why the Surface RT has its own app store when it could have just run Windows Phone apps.
 
2012-12-18 12:14:21 PM
Microsoft is really going all out on the marketing for the tablet. The previous issue of The New Yorker had a promotional cover for it. The current issue has has an inserted booklet of Microsoft hardware products (the number of pictures of hipsters using the products is completely over the top). There's rarely that level of advertisement done with the magazine.
 
2012-12-18 12:19:36 PM

Kazan: every Surface RT has a version of office preloaded. can we stop with this incorrect talking point?


There's nothing incorrect. The presence of the Metro app will not stop people from attempting to install a retail copy of a prior version they own anymore than any other "a version" of Office included with any of their other operating systems ever did. Did people suddenly stop installing 2007 copies they owned when Windows 7 started shipping with "a version" of 2010? Of course not.
 
2012-12-18 12:35:32 PM

Linux_Yes: Windows ReTurn for a Refund.



you're welcome


I thought I smelled B.O., shattered dreams and wannabe AW.
 
2012-12-18 12:35:33 PM

Lord Dimwit: LasersHurt: Lord Dimwit: Right, that's what I said.

Let's not play fast and loose here. You said that they "aren't going to work well there." You didn't specify that you meant keyboard. Which is a point, but, like... If I got a mini computer, I'd probably get a keyboard.

Right, except that the Surface is supposed to be all tablet-y. Which is the other problem - they're not differentiating the RT model enough. People are buying the cheaper Surface model and then don't understand why it's not running their Windows 8 apps.

And I still don't understand why the Surface RT has its own app store when it could have just run Windows Phone apps.


While they could have pushed the name a bit further apart, frankly it's your own fault if you buy something not knowing what it is.
 
2012-12-18 12:39:31 PM

yet_another_wumpus: Was the 90% native speed the native speed on a pentium vs. Alpha?


The Alpha. After FX!32 had its way with an x86 binary, it ran about 10% slower than a native Alpha binary under NT4 or NT5β. But since the Alpha had about twice the clock speed of our x86 workstations, the overhead was worth it when a native Alpha binary wasn't available.
 
2012-12-18 12:39:53 PM

LasersHurt: Lord Dimwit: LasersHurt: Lord Dimwit: Right, that's what I said.

Let's not play fast and loose here. You said that they "aren't going to work well there." You didn't specify that you meant keyboard. Which is a point, but, like... If I got a mini computer, I'd probably get a keyboard.

Right, except that the Surface is supposed to be all tablet-y. Which is the other problem - they're not differentiating the RT model enough. People are buying the cheaper Surface model and then don't understand why it's not running their Windows 8 apps.

And I still don't understand why the Surface RT has its own app store when it could have just run Windows Phone apps.

While they could have pushed the name a bit further apart, frankly it's your own fault if you buy something not knowing what it is.


Regardless of whose fault it is, it's going to be Microsoft who suffers any negative consumer opinion.
 
2012-12-18 12:53:17 PM
Oh look, I was right, again.

/I can help you, but only if you hire me
 
2012-12-18 12:54:59 PM

Lord Dimwit: LasersHurt: Lord Dimwit: LasersHurt: Lord Dimwit: Right, that's what I said.

Let's not play fast and loose here. You said that they "aren't going to work well there." You didn't specify that you meant keyboard. Which is a point, but, like... If I got a mini computer, I'd probably get a keyboard.

Right, except that the Surface is supposed to be all tablet-y. Which is the other problem - they're not differentiating the RT model enough. People are buying the cheaper Surface model and then don't understand why it's not running their Windows 8 apps.

And I still don't understand why the Surface RT has its own app store when it could have just run Windows Phone apps.

While they could have pushed the name a bit further apart, frankly it's your own fault if you buy something not knowing what it is.

Regardless of whose fault it is, it's going to be Microsoft who suffers any negative consumer opinion.


In my opinion, RT is a stopgap. The price of something that runs Windows proper is higher now, but it will come down in just a few years (well within Windows 8's lifespan) to the point where I think RT may be intentionally squeezed out. For now, there's a version that fills that low-price tablet niche.

I could be dead wrong, of course.
 
2012-12-18 01:19:23 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Kazan: every Surface RT has a version of office preloaded. can we stop with this incorrect talking point?

There's nothing incorrect. The presence of the Metro app will not stop people from attempting to install a retail copy of a prior version they own anymore than any other "a version" of Office included with any of their other operating systems ever did. Did people suddenly stop installing 2007 copies they owned when Windows 7 started shipping with "a version" of 2010? Of course not.


how are they going to manage that without a DVD drive?
 
2012-12-18 01:38:23 PM
toastytech.com

Miss me yet?
 
2012-12-18 01:49:37 PM

moel: ebamit: It does everything I need, and is the first tablet that had a prayer of replacing my laptop on a short business trip - thanks to the keyboard cover and Office.

You got a special licence for that? Cos if you look at your box, your breaking the terms of your licence agreement in a big way....


What on earth are you talking about?
 
2012-12-18 01:51:50 PM

Kazan: Vegan Meat Popsicle: Kazan: every Surface RT has a version of office preloaded. can we stop with this incorrect talking point?

There's nothing incorrect. The presence of the Metro app will not stop people from attempting to install a retail copy of a prior version they own anymore than any other "a version" of Office included with any of their other operating systems ever did. Did people suddenly stop installing 2007 copies they owned when Windows 7 started shipping with "a version" of 2010? Of course not.

how are they going to manage that without a DVD drive?


I don't see people trying to install osx software on iPads. Not sure where this thought process of installing PC versions of apps onto a tablet OS version comes from.
 
2012-12-18 01:53:07 PM

A Terrible Human: Well at least Windows 7 is still good.


But will Microsoft continue to support it until they de-crapify their OS by releasing Windows 9 ?
 
2012-12-18 02:00:57 PM

red5ish: A Terrible Human: Well at least Windows 7 is still good.

But will Microsoft continue to support it until they de-crapify their OS by releasing Windows 9 ?


They supported XP, with security updates at least, through the Vista debacle. MS knows not to piss off the enterprise guys.
 
2012-12-18 02:17:01 PM

Kazan: Vegan Meat Popsicle: Kazan: every Surface RT has a version of office preloaded. can we stop with this incorrect talking point?

There's nothing incorrect. The presence of the Metro app will not stop people from attempting to install a retail copy of a prior version they own anymore than any other "a version" of Office included with any of their other operating systems ever did. Did people suddenly stop installing 2007 copies they owned when Windows 7 started shipping with "a version" of 2010? Of course not.

how are they going to manage that without a DVD drive?


My work laptop doesn't have a DVD drive on it and I've got the entire Adobe Creative Suite 6 installed on it. I don't think there are that many apps out there today that you can't either buy via download. For my home computer, I get nearly all of my games via Steam as well. Hell, even if you have bought a boxed copy on disk you can usually download a trial of the app from the developer's website and then enter in the product key on the disk in order to activate the full app.
 
2012-12-18 02:18:32 PM
I bought a Surface, and I like it. I do actual work on it, and it comes with Excel and Word and PowerPoint installed. When I bought it, the little dork selling it to me went out of his way to let me know that this was a tablet and it couldn't install regular apps, but you had to use the app store.

Cool, got it.

Then he tried to up sell the extended warranty by telling me it came with none (lie, 1 year factory) and when I asked him if I could mount a network drive he had no clue. So I can see how some folks would get confused.
 
2012-12-18 02:29:16 PM

ha-ha-guy: red5ish: A Terrible Human: Well at least Windows 7 is still good.

But will Microsoft continue to support it until they de-crapify their OS by releasing Windows 9 ?

They supported XP, with security updates at least, through the Vista debacle. MS knows not to piss off the enterprise guys.


They still do, XP support doesn't end until 2014.
 
2012-12-18 02:29:55 PM

Kazan: how are they going to manage that without a DVD drive?


What is this... I don't even...

I haven't used a DVD of Office in nearly a decade at this point. And the only reason I used it then was to drop the MSIs from the DVD on the network. My wife has two laptops, a netbook and an iMac, that don't have optical drives yet they both run various software suites from Office to Adobe.

It's not rocket science.

olapbill: Not sure where this thought process of installing PC versions of apps onto a tablet OS version comes from.


Gee, I dunno. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Apple doesn't call its tablet OS "OS X". Or the fact that Apple isn't running around claiming that one of their new OS's big benefits is that it's the same on both the tablet and the PC.

You know. Exactly the things TFA is about.
 
2012-12-18 02:30:09 PM

xsarien: jake_lex: This is exactly why Apple doesn't call what runs on an iPad, iPhone, or iPod Touch "OS X", and even why Google keeps Android on phones and tablets and has another name entirely for what runs on laptop devices, Chrome OS.

You'd think Microsoft would have realized that.

This. All of this.


Steve Jobs did call the iPhone's OS "OS X" when it was originally announced, but at the time OS X for Macs was always called Mac OS X. The fact Microsoft feels they need to put the Windows brand on everything reeks of desperation. Likewise they're used the Xbox brand to replace the Zune brand regardless of whether product/service runs on/with an Xbox 360. Microsoft seems unsure that it can successfully promote new brands.
 
2012-12-18 02:32:54 PM

terminalx: Office actually runs on the surface with no network connection I am in airplane mode and word opens like it should.

If you move the recovery partition to a USB drive you have about 21 GB available. You can add a mini SD card to get more space but can't save apps to it, that could change the OS is barely 2 Months old.


A couple of things to note:

The version of Office 2013 on the Win RT computers is fully functional except for some things like Macros, but it does have one big thing missing for business users: Outlook. You can deal with email and appointments via the Mail and Calendar Metro apps, but they only handle basic functions and don't do all of the advanced stuff that Outlook does.

The MicroSD card slot is seen as a removable device by Win RT, so it requires some hackery in order to get the card added to the libraries that are used by the system for media. Because of this, the Metro apps for music, videos, and photos ignore the SD card by default, which makes the slot useless for users that don't have the tech savvy needed to trick the Metro apps into seeing the SD card.

I have a Surface that I'm using for a project at work, and despite the hardware being excellent, the OS is a bit of a hot mess. A lot of the Metro apps are noticeably worse than their Android and iOS counterparts (Kindle and Comixology are terrible ports), even more apps are missing (HBO Go, TiVo, Amazon Instant Video are some biggies that I use). There some some definite advantages to WIn RT (multi-user capability and having a full desktop for example), but the advantages are right now outweighed by some serious issues with the OS and app ecosystem.
 
2012-12-18 02:34:57 PM

Rent Party: I bought a Surface, and I like it. I do actual work on it, and it comes with Excel and Word and PowerPoint installed. When I bought it, the little dork selling it to me went out of his way to let me know that this was a tablet and it couldn't install regular apps, but you had to use the app store.


Again....you missed it last time, I hope you've got some sort of special dispensation from MS for that...because you are violating the terms of the licence agreement of RT Office 'Student' edition, that you have in a BIG WAY
 
2012-12-18 02:45:37 PM
Kazan the shameless assface the lawsuit part was a rumor, specifically.

I never said anything about a lawsuit. This is what I wrote you jag:

illegal.tender: Kazan: Bacontastesgood: Modern. Forget we ever said Metro.

that was a rumor

Ah, an astroturfer.


You were right, he is an astroturfer. What a joke.
 
2012-12-18 02:46:37 PM
It should be obvious to anyone that Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8 run Windows applications, and Windows RT does not run Windows applications. Who wouldn't understand that?
 
2012-12-18 02:47:23 PM

moel: Rent Party: I bought a Surface, and I like it. I do actual work on it, and it comes with Excel and Word and PowerPoint installed. When I bought it, the little dork selling it to me went out of his way to let me know that this was a tablet and it couldn't install regular apps, but you had to use the app store.

Again....you missed it last time, I hope you've got some sort of special dispensation from MS for that...because you are violating the terms of the licence agreement of RT Office 'Student' edition, that you have in a BIG WAY


"As sold, Office Home & Student 2013 RT Preview and the final edition are not designed for commercial, nonprofit, or revenue-generating activities. However, organizations who purchase commercial use rights or have a commercial license to Office 2013 suites can use Office Home & Student 2013 RT for commercial, nonprofit, or revenue-generating activities.."
 
2012-12-18 02:49:42 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Kazan: how are they going to manage that without a DVD drive?

What is this... I don't even...

I haven't used a DVD of Office in nearly a decade at this point. And the only reason I used it then was to drop the MSIs from the DVD on the network. My wife has two laptops, a netbook and an iMac, that don't have optical drives yet they both run various software suites from Office to Adobe.

It's not rocket science.

olapbill: Not sure where this thought process of installing PC versions of apps onto a tablet OS version comes from.

Gee, I dunno. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Apple doesn't call its tablet OS "OS X". Or the fact that Apple isn't running around claiming that one of their new OS's big benefits is that it's the same on both the tablet and the PC.

You know. Exactly the things TFA is about.


stop considering yourself an average user. You're not the average user. anyone who knows what an MSI file is most certainly does NOT qualify as an average user.

This is a problem we have around here sometimes - software engineers going "but i X" and try to use that to say the average user could do that.


Bacontastesgood: ...


if you want to fling bullshiat, go to a cattle pen.
 
2012-12-18 02:49:50 PM
I love going into the Microsoft Store at the Mall of America. There are never any people in there, and the sales folks are surly and uncooperative and don't bother to talk to anyone. It's the quietest spot in the whole mall.

By comparison, the Apple Store is pure hell. It's always packed, and the sales people are always trying to be helpful and talk to you about what you're looking for. Ughh... what rude bastards.
 
2012-12-18 02:50:04 PM
I told Ballmer the same thing. His response? "Who are you and how did you get in here?"

Then burly men dragged me away. That guy don't listen to nobody, man.
 
2012-12-18 02:53:29 PM

The Larch: I love going into the Microsoft Store at the Mall of America. There are never any people in there, and the sales folks are surly and uncooperative and don't bother to talk to anyone. It's the quietest spot in the whole mall.

By comparison, the Apple Store is pure hell. It's always packed, and the sales people are always trying to be helpful and talk to you about what you're looking for. Ughh... what rude bastards.


I've got a special color picked out for your posts moving forward. Derp purple.
 
2012-12-18 02:54:14 PM

The Larch: the sales folks are surly and uncooperative and don't bother to talk to anyone.


really? maybe i should report that.


no. wait. i don't need to report bullshiat up the chain.
 
2012-12-18 02:57:39 PM

Lord Dimwit: And I still don't understand why the Surface RT has its own app store when it could have just run Windows Phone apps.


Don't worry. I'm sure they'll get it right next time, when they come out with a whole new OS in two years that makes both Windows RT and Windows Phone obsolete, and all of the applications and devices you currently own worthless.
 
2012-12-18 02:58:38 PM

moel: Rent Party: I bought a Surface, and I like it. I do actual work on it, and it comes with Excel and Word and PowerPoint installed. When I bought it, the little dork selling it to me went out of his way to let me know that this was a tablet and it couldn't install regular apps, but you had to use the app store.

Again....you missed it last time, I hope you've got some sort of special dispensation from MS for that...because you are violating the terms of the licence agreement of RT Office 'Student' edition, that you have in a BIG WAY


I'm typing this from my Surface right now. In the background I have one of my Excel spreadsheets open. On top of that it has the "About" pane up.

What it tells me is that you are categorically wrong. It is a fully activated version of Office 13 RT Preview, which is to say, still a beta and subject to updates. Further, any commercial use (that is, bought and paid for by my company) of any Microsoft product requires commercial licensing. That doesn't mean that my Surface, which I bought for me, can't be used to do work on. This is my device, not my commercial employer's device.
 
2012-12-18 03:01:36 PM

olapbill: moel: Rent Party: I bought a Surface, and I like it. I do actual work on it, and it comes with Excel and Word and PowerPoint installed. When I bought it, the little dork selling it to me went out of his way to let me know that this was a tablet and it couldn't install regular apps, but you had to use the app store.

Again....you missed it last time, I hope you've got some sort of special dispensation from MS for that...because you are violating the terms of the licence agreement of RT Office 'Student' edition, that you have in a BIG WAY

"As sold, Office Home & Student 2013 RT Preview and the final edition are not designed for commercial, nonprofit, or revenue-generating activities. However, organizations who purchase commercial use rights or have a commercial license to Office 2013 suites can use Office Home & Student 2013 RT for commercial, nonprofit, or revenue-generating activities.."


And fortunately, my commercial employer has fully licensed versions of MS Office available for our use at work.

Man, Microsoft really did this right. I can buy the Surface, and use the embedded Office product on it to be productive at work, surf Fark, and watch Netflix all at the same time.

I'm just waiting for the price of the advance keyboards to come down, then I'm going to write my novel on it.
 
2012-12-18 03:02:59 PM

Kazan: This is a problem we have around here sometimes - software engineers going "but i X" and try to use that to say the average user could do that.


Is this a good time to point out that your average user never sees the .msi at the end and just sees it displayed as an executable icon like all the others they're used to?

Or would it be an even better time to point out for the most part you can download this shiat when you buy it? Or are we suddenly pretending that people don't know how downloadable software purchases work now?

For somebody taking great pains to appear to be a Microsoft shill, you don't seem to know much about their products.

You're being stupid. People will attempt to install Office, Adobe products, autocad (although that will never work right even on the professional version) and you know it and you know it's because it's called "Windows" and your desperate attempts to ignore this basic reality of how users view their devices makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. 

Stop pretending you're stupid so you can act like you don't get the point hovering right in front of your face. It's annoying.
 
2012-12-18 03:03:33 PM

Kazan: The Larch: the sales folks are surly and uncooperative and don't bother to talk to anyone.

really? maybe i should report that.

no. wait. i don't need to report bullshiat up the chain.


Ha! You found me out. I've never been in the Microsoft Store at the Mall of America, and in fact I've never even met anyone who has ever had a reason to go in there. The sales people might be the nicest folks in the world, but I wouldn't know. I just know they look really bored.
 
2012-12-18 03:07:21 PM

Kazan: This is a problem we have around here sometimes - software engineers going "but i X" and try to use that to say the average user could do that.


You've hit the nail on the head exactly. Software engineers are saying "but I can tell the difference between Windows 8 and Windows RT", and they assume that the regular user has any idea what the differences are.

And since regular people often will install software and then ask their friends to install software for them, regular people are going to be very frustrated when they buy a computer with a screen and a keyboard and Microsoft Windows and their friend says "well, you can't install that software, because it's the wrong kind of Windows".
 
2012-12-18 03:08:21 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Is this a good time to point out that your average user never sees the .msi at the end and just sees it displayed as an executable icon like all the others they're used to?

Or would it be an even better time to point out for the most part you can download this shiat when you buy it? Or are we suddenly pretending that people don't know how downloadable software purchases work now?



i have never known a 'typical user' to purchase Office via download. they go to the physical store, and buy a box.

Vegan Meat Popsicle: For somebody taking great pains to appear to be a Microsoft shill, you don't seem to know much about their products.


calling out bullshiat is hardly shilling. but i thought everyone on fark already knew that i work for MS. i normally caveat the fark out of my posts. I work in server division. While I agree with a lot of the sentiments expressed in this thread, there has also been a lot of outright bullshiat.

Vegan Meat Popsicle: You're being stupid. People will attempt to install Office, Adobe products, autocad (although that will never work right even on the professional version) and you know it and you know it's because it's called "Windows" and your desperate attempts to ignore this basic reality of how users view their devices makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.


"Disagrees with Vegan Meat Popsicles unsupported assertion" is not the basis upon which we measure whether or not someone is stupid. Don't be abusive in your arguments, it does your argument no service.

I agreed that the name may be confusing, however I don't think people will try to install Office on the Surface RT - especially since it comes preinstalled.

Adobe products, maybe. However it would just tell them no

autocad? bullshiat. Nobody who can use autocad is stupid enough to not understand the Windows RT isn't windowsa or) try to install autocad on a tablet.


I agree with the general premise that the naming is subpar and potentially confusing. However some of the software you're trotting out that people would install.. yeah no.


Vegan Meat Popsicle: Stop pretending you're stupid so you can act like you don't get the point hovering right in front of your face. It's annoying.


Stop pretending that "disagrees with something VMP said" is the basis to call someone else stupid. stop being abusive if your arguments.
 
2012-12-18 03:08:46 PM

The Larch: Kazan: This is a problem we have around here sometimes - software engineers going "but i X" and try to use that to say the average user could do that.

You've hit the nail on the head exactly. Software engineers are saying "but I can tell the difference between Windows 8 and Windows RT", and they assume that the regular user has any idea what the differences are.

And since regular people often will install software and then ask their friends to install software for them, regular people are going to be very frustrated when they buy a computer with a screen and a keyboard and Microsoft Windows and their friend says "well, you can't install that software, because it's the wrong kind of Windows".


FTFM
 
2012-12-18 03:10:09 PM

Rent Party: Man, Microsoft really did this right. I can buy the Surface, and use the embedded Office product on it to be productive at work, surf Fark, and watch Netflix all at the same time.


Does Fark even work al that well on your Surface? For me, Metro IE10 is really slow to load the comment pages, and long threads with hundreds of comments will cause the browser to crash to the Start Screen. It's to the point now where I can almost tell the browser is getting ready to crash because it start getting sluggish, so I'll kill it manually by swiping down and the restart. It's honestly a crappy experience compared to surfing Fark on a normal Windows computer.
 
2012-12-18 03:11:03 PM

The Larch: Kazan: This is a problem we have around here sometimes - software engineers going "but i X" and try to use that to say the average user could do that.

You've hit the nail on the head exactly. Software engineers are saying "but I can tell the difference between Windows 8 and Windows RT", and they assume that the regular user has any idea what the differences are.

And since regular people often will install software and then ask their friends to install software for them, regular people are going to be very frustrated when they buy a computer with a screen and a keyboard and Microsoft Windows and their friend says "well, you can't install that software, because it's the wrong kind of Windows".


See everyone - this is how you make your point without loading a bunch of bullshiat around it like some of the others of you are doing. I agree with that assessment. We have two major branding for consumer products though - Xbox and Windows. Xbox doesn't make sense, and it is a Windows product. So Windows has to go in the name somewhere from a branding standpoint.

How would you name it better? I certainly haven't come up with a better idea to suggest.

that said.. is there a huge problem with people buying iPads and being all confused that they cannot run OS/X desktop apps on them?
 
2012-12-18 03:12:30 PM

Mad_Radhu: Rent Party: Man, Microsoft really did this right. I can buy the Surface, and use the embedded Office product on it to be productive at work, surf Fark, and watch Netflix all at the same time.

Does Fark even work al that well on your Surface? For me, Metro IE10 is really slow to load the comment pages, and long threads with hundreds of comments will cause the browser to crash to the Start Screen. It's to the point now where I can almost tell the browser is getting ready to crash because it start getting sluggish, so I'll kill it manually by swiping down and the restart. It's honestly a crappy experience compared to surfing Fark on a normal Windows computer.


hmm.. i haven't tried it. *fires up my surface*
 
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