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(C|Net)   Dell: consumers will get confused with Windows RT, call it something else. Ballmer: Nah, you're crazy. Consumers: I'd like to return this defective product, please   (news.cnet.com) divider line 197
    More: Obvious, Windows, reverse transcriptases, Great Satan, Ballmer, Windows Store  
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11203 clicks; posted to Geek » on 18 Dec 2012 at 12:31 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-17 09:07:16 PM  
*bill_gates.jpg*
"Miss me yet?"
 
2012-12-17 09:19:55 PM  
The scathenfrith in this thread shall be tasty.

Anyways, MS really is farking up more than usual. What gives?
 
2012-12-17 09:24:43 PM  
Dear Microsoft,

If you're going to be last on the bus, you should at least ensure your lardass can fit in the remaining seats.

Sincerely,
The World
 
2012-12-17 09:25:49 PM  
It should be called Windows-ARM RT, or WART for short.
 
2012-12-17 09:28:35 PM  
People make uninformed purchases, film at 11
 
2012-12-17 09:31:52 PM  
More on this story as it DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS!
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-17 09:36:43 PM  
I can't imagine it will be that successful. The problem is that by the time it hit's critical mass where there is enough software for it to be useful, Windows pro will be available on Atom tablets for the same or a similar price.

So why buy the crippled version?
 
2012-12-17 09:43:13 PM  
why buy a windows tablet to start with?
between droid and ios, WHY would you use anything else?
esp since the turd wont run windows apps??

LOL
 
2012-12-17 09:55:19 PM  
This isn't Microsoft's fault. It's shiatty salespeople who are either uneducated about the product or deliberately deceptive and are trying to get sales in before Christmas.

Q12013 the Surface Pro comes out and does exactly what this Dell doorknob is complaining about, but that would mean that salespeople wouldn't get their pre-xmas commission checks.
 
2012-12-17 10:04:39 PM  
This is exactly why Apple doesn't call what runs on an iPad, iPhone, or iPod Touch "OS X", and even why Google keeps Android on phones and tablets and has another name entirely for what runs on laptop devices, Chrome OS.

You'd think Microsoft would have realized that.
 
2012-12-17 10:27:50 PM  

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Q12013 the Surface Pro comes out and does exactly what this Dell doorknob is complaining about, but that would mean that salespeople wouldn't get their pre-xmas commission checks.


It would have been nice if Microsoft had included an x86->ARM binary translator. I used an x86->Alpha translator (FX!32) on my DEC Alpha workstation back in the day and it ran apps at about 90% of native speed*. Given that we've had a decade of research into JITC compilers and x86 virtual machines, I'd expect translators to be even better.

Sorry MS, you have to beat Apple via some other game. Giving people access to a huge library of Windows app was one of them. But you had to fark that up, too.


/once the app translation was mostly in cache
 
2012-12-17 10:31:41 PM  

jake_lex: You'd think Microsoft would have realized that.


They could have bought the rights to µOS and used it instead. Total play on their company name.
 
2012-12-17 11:03:26 PM  

Dinjiin: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Q12013 the Surface Pro comes out and does exactly what this Dell doorknob is complaining about, but that would mean that salespeople wouldn't get their pre-xmas commission checks.

It would have been nice if Microsoft had included an x86->ARM binary translator. I used an x86->Alpha translator (FX!32) on my DEC Alpha workstation back in the day and it ran apps at about 90% of native speed*. Given that we've had a decade of research into JITC compilers and x86 virtual machines, I'd expect translators to be even better.

Sorry MS, you have to beat Apple via some other game. Giving people access to a huge library of Windows app was one of them. But you had to fark that up, too.


/once the app translation was mostly in cache


Microsoft's goal is not to overtake iOS, it's to get a toe-hold in the tablet market.

Besides, I have a feeling that once the execs and salespeople get a good look at the Surface Pro, the Enterprise market will start driving towards it instead of the iPad.
 
2012-12-18 12:35:37 AM  
I'd like to return this defective product, please

Doesn't sound like they're confused at all.
 
2012-12-18 12:43:07 AM  

Dinjiin: jake_lex: You'd think Microsoft would have realized that.

They could have bought the rights to µOS and used it instead. Total play on their company name.


People that geek run linux. Your average Win user will look at that and go "YouOS? What a funny looking 'u' that is."
 
2012-12-18 12:52:31 AM  
What about Windows FART?
 
2012-12-18 01:08:47 AM  
So people who buy an OS called Windows expect it to run Windows software? Who would have imagined...
 
2012-12-18 01:16:29 AM  
The thing that absolutely kills me with Microsoft marketing is they're more concerned with selling their image than selling the product. The image they sell though is so cringe worthy cheesy you can't help but associate with their products even if they're good or not.

You know how Sinbad spent his entire career trying to be a black comedian even though he was really a white comedian? That's Microsoft.
 
2012-12-18 01:17:01 AM  

From the comments:


So what you are saying is that Windows RT runs Windows applications but not Windows Applications that I already run in Windows.
 
2012-12-18 01:18:16 AM  
The most sensible thing to do since A) They wanted the Windows name in the OS name, and B) It only runs Metro apps and not legacy programs would be to call the OS: Windows Metro. Of course putting Ballmer and sensible together is like putting oil and water together. WTF is Windows RT anyway? Windows ReTard?
 
2012-12-18 01:27:25 AM  

jake_lex: This is exactly why Apple doesn't call what runs on an iPad, iPhone, or iPod Touch "OS X", and even why Google keeps Android on phones and tablets and has another name entirely for what runs on laptop devices, Chrome OS.

You'd think Microsoft would have realized that.


Actually one complaint about the IPad when it first came out was from people who were led to believe that it would be able to replace there laptops and do everything a laptop was able to do.

Hand Banana: So people who buy an OS called Windows expect it to run Windows software? Who would have imagined...


5 minutes of research into what they were buying and they would have realized that maybe the RT model wasn't what they were looking for and waiting for the Pro model would have been better suited for them.
 
2012-12-18 01:38:06 AM  

Dinjiin: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Q12013 the Surface Pro comes out and does exactly what this Dell doorknob is complaining about, but that would mean that salespeople wouldn't get their pre-xmas commission checks.

It would have been nice if Microsoft had included an x86->ARM binary translator. I used an x86->Alpha translator (FX!32) on my DEC Alpha workstation back in the day and it ran apps at about 90% of native speed*. Given that we've had a decade of research into JITC compilers and x86 virtual machines, I'd expect translators to be even better.


ATM Machine?
 
2012-12-18 01:47:51 AM  
If you can't win customers because you have a good product, trick them into buying it by confusing the shiat out of them.

This is not a new strategy for Microsoft.
 
2012-12-18 01:50:59 AM  

Dinjiin: They could have bought the rights to µOS and used it instead. Total play on their company name.


Yeah, because do you know what works really well in the 21st century? Brand names you can't google.
 
2012-12-18 01:57:33 AM  

Dinjiin: It would have been nice if Microsoft had included an x86->ARM binary translator. I used an x86->Alpha translator (FX!32) on my DEC Alpha workstation back in the day and it ran apps at about 90% of native speed*. Given that we've had a decade of research into JITC compilers and x86 virtual machines, I'd expect translators to be even better.


I bet customers would balk when they saw how slow the MS Surface would be at running a typical Windows app.
 
2012-12-18 02:00:51 AM  
I'm not sure that I see the problem.
 
2012-12-18 02:03:25 AM  
Let's try that again, with the picture this time. Preview is my friend. 

www.richterscale.org
 
2012-12-18 02:09:50 AM  

Gordon Bennett: Let's try that again, with the picture this time. Preview is my friend. 

[www.richterscale.org image 418x342]


I kinda miss mine. Instant boot.
 
2012-12-18 02:31:23 AM  
Windows RT shouldn't even exist. You can get very competitive battery life and better performance out of a Clovertrail (the new Atom) processor.

It seriously has no point in existing. Just dump the platform entirely and give everybody who made the mistake of buying a Surface RT a few hundred off of a (hypothetical) Clovertrail Surface or Surface Pro and be done with it.
 
2012-12-18 02:35:10 AM  

CmndrFish: Windows RT shouldn't even exist. You can get very competitive battery life and better performance out of a Clovertrail (the new Atom) processor.

It seriously has no point in existing. Just dump the platform entirely and give everybody who made the mistake of buying a Surface RT a few hundred off of a (hypothetical) Clovertrail Surface or Surface Pro and be done with it.


Microsoft does not invest in common sense. Microsoft just does not get it. With Gates, Microsoft was at their zenith. Gates understood the product. Ballmer isn't a geek; he can never understand
 
2012-12-18 02:39:22 AM  
Windows RT is the most godawful, wrongly formed name for an operating system in existence. What does it even FARKING MEAN? Run Time? That's stupid. Is it to call back to Windows CE that NO ONE CARES ABOUT?

It's just goddamn embarrassing to have such major company fail so hard at just creating a name that just isn't completely idiotic. It isn't hard. MetroOS, SurfaceOS, Windows Metro, any of those would be less dumb.
 
2012-12-18 02:46:17 AM  

MrEricSir: If you can't win customers because you have a good product, trick them into buying it by confusing the shiat out of them.

This is not a new strategy for Microsoft.


How did Microsoft trick anybody with the RT? It has been clearly put out, for those who care to do 5 minutes of research, that the RT was a typical tablet and the Pro was the true Microsoft OS that would be able to behave like a laptop.
 
2012-12-18 02:50:16 AM  

cman: CmndrFish: Windows RT shouldn't even exist. You can get very competitive battery life and better performance out of a Clovertrail (the new Atom) processor.

It seriously has no point in existing. Just dump the platform entirely and give everybody who made the mistake of buying a Surface RT a few hundred off of a (hypothetical) Clovertrail Surface or Surface Pro and be done with it.

Microsoft does not invest in common sense. Microsoft just does not get it. With Gates, Microsoft was at their zenith. Gates understood the product. Ballmer isn't a geek; he can never understand


Apparently not, since they really could have also moved the entirety of Windows Phone to x86 (Atom again) when they re-did the kernel between WP7 and WP8. Given that the existing ecosystem was so small for WP7 it would have been a great time to do it, and then you could have literally just had a checkbox to compile a .NET program for Windows Phone. This whole platform transition away from the desktop really shouldn't be that painful, we have the technology!

Hell, is it Intel that is your problem? Because AMD has a very similar platform named Fusion. Once again, what's the deal?

This should have been an easy slam dunk but Microsoft had to go spill RISC in its CISC world.

/guess I'll go grab my Lumia 920 and cry myself to sleep
 
2012-12-18 02:56:06 AM  

ongbok: MrEricSir: If you can't win customers because you have a good product, trick them into buying it by confusing the shiat out of them.

This is not a new strategy for Microsoft.

How did Microsoft trick anybody with the RT? It has been clearly put out, for those who care to do 5 minutes of research, that the RT was a typical tablet and the Pro was the true Microsoft OS that would be able to behave like a laptop.


If you're looking at products in a store, and they have a bunch of tablets right next to the PC's, both of which that say "Windows" and whose Start screens look idenetical, I can easily see why someone would make the assumption.
 
2012-12-18 02:56:41 AM  

ongbok: MrEricSir: If you can't win customers because you have a good product, trick them into buying it by confusing the shiat out of them.

This is not a new strategy for Microsoft.

How did Microsoft trick anybody with the RT? It has been clearly put out, for those who care to do 5 minutes of research, that the RT was a typical tablet and the Pro was the true Microsoft OS that would be able to behave like a laptop.


They named it Windows RT.
 
2012-12-18 03:04:01 AM  

ongbok: MrEricSir: If you can't win customers because you have a good product, trick them into buying it by confusing the shiat out of them.

This is not a new strategy for Microsoft.

How did Microsoft trick anybody with the RT? It has been clearly put out, for those who care to do 5 minutes of research, that the RT was a typical tablet and the Pro was the true Microsoft OS that would be able to behave like a laptop.


nope, not even close to clear enough. it has been windows __ for years and you can't expect people to know that THIS time it actually means something.... then it is a random set of letters, not "tablet" or "lite" or "express" just RT which obviously means something to someone who doesn't even know the difference between word and windows.

it was/is a mistake, saying otherwise shows a great misunderstanding of the market.
 
2012-12-18 03:16:33 AM  
Headline is neckbeard Linux fanboy trolling. Dell doesn't make a Windows RT device. So how the fark are people returning them to Dell?

The manufacturers are:

Samsung (Ativ)
Lenovo (IdeaPad)
ASUS (Vivo Tab)

http://www.knowyourmobile.com/features/1638084/a_complete_guide_to_ev e ry_windows_8_and_windows_rt_device_launched_so_far_details_specs_hardw are.html
 
2012-12-18 03:31:10 AM  

narkor: Headline is neckbeard Linux fanboy trolling. Dell doesn't make a Windows RT device. So how the fark are people returning them to Dell?


The headline is saying Dell is boasting, not that people are returning anything to Dell.
 
2012-12-18 03:58:48 AM  

narkor: Headline is neckbeard Linux fanboy trolling. Dell doesn't make a Windows RT device. So how the fark are people returning them to Dell?

The manufacturers are:

Samsung (Ativ)
Lenovo (IdeaPad)
ASUS (Vivo Tab)

http://www.knowyourmobile.com/features/1638084/a_complete_guide_to_ev e ry_windows_8_and_windows_rt_device_launched_so_far_details_specs_hardw are.html


Link

I know google is hard to use for you non neckbeards.
 
2012-12-18 03:58:55 AM  

gwowen: Yeah, because do you know what works really well in the 21st century? Brand names you can't google.


Lighten up, Francis. µOS = MicroOS. The letter is usually spelled out in the consumer marketplace.


StoPPeRmobile: ATM Machine?


JITC = Just-in-time compilation. It falls between source interpreters/emulators and source compilers/translators. Think of an old BASIC interpreter that can save its work in a cache after interpreting it. If it comes across a line of code that is already in the cache, it hits the cache instead of re-interpreting it.


MrEricSir: I bet customers would balk when they saw how slow the MS Surface would be at running a typical Windows app.


The complaint I heard was that dynamic translation would chew up too much battery, although they could go the same route as FX!32 and have the JITC translator save the cache to disk. Eventually, you'd have a 100% cache hit rate, so that drain would go away over time. But that eats up storage.

Multi-threaded apps might run well if they can use all four cores. Single-threaded apps that camp on a single core would be the problem. You're also memory limited, which is a problem.
 
2012-12-18 05:18:55 AM  
If I am buying a windows product it is because I already have a bunch of windows software I want to run on the thing. If I have to buy a new product and then be put in a walled garden to buy a new bunch of software then I will go for a platform that does this well and has a bunch of apps.

If I want a real computer I will get a laptop or desktop with a real OS.

This product does not do what I need and it seems to do it badly at the same time...
 
2012-12-18 05:38:57 AM  
I'm not sure why there is so much yammering about the Zune 2.0. There was one on display in my local Staples. I played with it for about 5 seconds. It felt cheap and all the stupid stuff on the screen was confusing. At least the iPad is a fun toy to play with. This windoze tablet thing simply sucked.
 
2012-12-18 06:02:30 AM  
This has clearly been one of those typical flawless Microsoft rollouts.
 
2012-12-18 06:13:36 AM  

StoPPeRmobile: I kinda miss mine. Instant boot.


I had an HPC, too, a Compaq. Went next to a Palm IIIc. After my Palm died I went without for a while, running an Android phone now.

I was in an airport last week, and they were offering "prizes" for trying out the RT tablets. I couldn't get the guy to admit that it would not run Office actually on the machine. The lines were along, "well,you have access to all the same Office apps." "You have 32 GB of on-board storage." To be fair, I didn't push it that hard, but it felt a little misleading. I probably should have asked a very specific question - "If I take this on a plane, and don't pay for on-board internet access, can I still use Office in flight?"

Oh, yeah, my "prize" was a five-dollar "coupon" on Living Social - no thanks. I was pleasantly surprised they didn't ask for an e-mail address just to fill out the post-demo survey.
 
2012-12-18 06:30:20 AM  

Unobtanium: StoPPeRmobile: I kinda miss mine. Instant boot.

I had an HPC, too, a Compaq. Went next to a Palm IIIc. After my Palm died I went without for a while, running an Android phone now.

I was in an airport last week, and they were offering "prizes" for trying out the RT tablets. I couldn't get the guy to admit that it would not run Office actually on the machine. The lines were along, "well,you have access to all the same Office apps." "You have 32 GB of on-board storage." To be fair, I didn't push it that hard, but it felt a little misleading. I probably should have asked a very specific question - "If I take this on a plane, and don't pay for on-board internet access, can I still use Office in flight?"

Oh, yeah, my "prize" was a five-dollar "coupon" on Living Social - no thanks. I was pleasantly surprised they didn't ask for an e-mail address just to fill out the post-demo survey.


I can't tell if you are trolling or truly believe what you wrote.

Office actually runs on the surface with no network connection I am in airplane mode and word opens like it should.

If you move the recovery partition to a USB drive you have about 21 GB available. You can add a mini SD card to get more space but can't save apps to it, that could change the OS is barely 2 Months old.
 
2012-12-18 06:32:03 AM  

Unobtanium: can I still use Office in flight?


If I'm not mistaken Office 2013 RT is interoperable with Office Live and real Office 2013, but there are some lacking features, some of which may be added later. So my understanding is that the answer should be a tenetive yes assuming you're not doing something very significant, or expecting to use macros.

/played around with it, liked it well enough
//the 600dpi digitizer on the surface pro is pretty intriguing.
 
2012-12-18 06:45:24 AM  
Why I sold my IPad for the Surface.

First, I researched windows rt before I bought it (I know thats crazy!)

My printer works without any third Party software or utility.
Battery life is similar to what I got on my Ipad
I can use my Xbox controller to play games made for it
I can run two apps side by side
The share option remembers the last few things you did to make it faster in repeating that task. For example, I emailed some pics but a couple hours later I had more to send so it gives me the email address of who I sent before.
I can connect a mini hdmi cable and get an even bigger screen to play games, movies whatnot on.
I can expand my storage with a micro sd card
I can listen to all the music I want for 9.99 a month online or offline
I have office that comes free with my device
I have support for the device until 2016
I can use over 400,000,000 devices with it
My windows phone can be managed from my tablet and I can charge it without being plugged into a power source.
My favorites are the same on both my pc and tablet.
The only thing I could perceive as a negative would be lack of apps but lets be real here its MS eventually everyone will be on board.
 
2012-12-18 06:52:08 AM  
I'm just flabbergasted as to WHY they had to even had a name for the ARM OS on the tablets. It's not as if you can buy it from the store to install on a device...

Surface OS would have been fine, that way people would realize it's too different products just at a glance.
 
2012-12-18 06:52:50 AM  
Well at least Windows 7 is still good.
 
2012-12-18 07:05:56 AM  
or maybe call it "MetrOS"

the name says what it does.
 
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