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(ABC)   "The NRA couldn't be reached for comment regarding whether the deactivation of its facebook page was connected to Friday's mass shooting"   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 146
    More: Obvious, NRA, school shootings, semi-automatic rifle, gun laws, assault weapons  
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7708 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Dec 2012 at 1:43 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2012-12-17 12:16:52 PM  
11 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


You need to go back 30 years when the mental health system got shut down
2012-12-17 01:49:32 PM  
8 votes:
Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy. But let's keep derping about gun control.
2012-12-17 12:07:37 PM  
8 votes:
Further proof that owning a gun doesn't make you decent or brave.
2012-12-17 02:01:18 PM  
7 votes:
You know, the rest of the world sees America's violent movies and plays its violent video games, and some how manage to avoid monthly school massacres, despite having the exact same cultural influences.
2012-12-17 01:48:46 PM  
7 votes:
Statistically, based on population, these types of incidents are actually fewer and very rare. The reason it "seems" more prominent is the instant news, media and internet blasting of such events.
2012-12-17 02:04:38 PM  
6 votes:

sorhed: You know, the rest of the world sees America's violent movies and plays its violent video games, and some how manage to avoid monthly school massacres, despite having the exact same cultural influences.



And I seem to recall that Tarantino had to make Kill Bill BLOODIER for Japanese audiences because they're accustomed to more gruesome horror and violence in their films. And Japan has one of the lowest rates of intentional homicide in the world. Guns are illegal there, too, but I'm sure that's just a big farking coincidence.
2012-12-17 02:03:05 PM  
5 votes:

dittybopper: It's a smart move, so as to remove the possibility of comments by idiots who may belong to the NRA (and every organization has idiots, the NRA is not immune to that).


Probably this. I'm sure we will see a full-throated defense of the current status quo on gun control once all of the emotions calm down a bit.

After all, reinstating the AWB wouldn't have prevented this tragedy, or any of the recent other ones. Most of these massacres are comitted with semi-auto handguns, and good luck getting a blanket ban on any semi-autos past the Supreme Court anytime in the next couple decades.

A fundamental change in the way our society approaches mental illness is the only thing that could have prevented this. We need professionals in schools who can evaluate at-risk individuals, maybe create a blacklist of people with serious illnesses which would be integrated into the background check process. It would have to be pretty invasive, though, as even just putting those who have been involuntarily comitted on such a list wouldn't have stopped most of these tragedies.

We don't have a gun control problem, we have a crazy control problem.
2012-12-17 01:58:13 PM  
5 votes:

The Muthaship: Blaming the NRA for this makes you look stupid.



Trying to pretend the NRA has any interest in American citizens or their rights makes you look stupid.
2012-12-17 01:52:09 PM  
5 votes:

PreMortem: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

Reality shows


24/7 media coverage.
2012-12-17 02:10:39 PM  
4 votes:
Jesus christ they knew their presence would be an issue. They knew that a shiatstorm was coming. They knew that ANYTHING they did or said would be met with hostility which is EXACTLY what is not needed in the wake of such a tragedy.

So they chose to avoid the fight. Sometimes the better part of valor is knowing when to step down. All of you calling them cowards and standing on your soap boxes beating your chests, YOURE the real swine here.

Kudos to the NRA for a moment of silence and trying not to feed the fire.
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-17 02:01:31 PM  
4 votes:

brnt00: Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy. But let's keep derping about gun control.


Because it would cost billions of dollars, the gun nuts are the same people who think national healthcare is a Marxist plot, and they are the very people we would have to lock up, so it amounts to the same thing.
2012-12-17 12:24:44 PM  
4 votes:

El_Frijole_Blanco: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

You need to go back 30 years when the mental health system got shut down


Conservative hero Ronald Reagan and his Omnibus bill. I'm just gonna copypasta this all day:

Court ordered mandatory psychological exam, then involuntary institutionalisation.

We are allowing too many whack jobs to roam freely.
2012-12-17 03:39:41 PM  
3 votes:

onyxruby: IlGreven: onyxruby: This issue has nothing to do with guns, they are the red herring.

People can keep saying this. It doesn't make it true. Even if a majority of people believe it, it doesn't make it true.

Just curious, do you try to get cars banned because of the very large number of people killed by them every year? This is a people issue, just like drunk driving.


Really, keep using the "CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!" argument. It definitely makes a good point - for more regulations on firearms. 

i48.photobucket.com

See, a drunk driver can be caught before he kills anyone, because the mere act of driving drunk is illegal. However, we usually find out that some whackjob had an arsenal only AFTER he kills a couple dozen people because we don't track ammo purchases or require registration of all firearms across the board.
2012-12-17 02:51:43 PM  
3 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


George W. Bush allowed the assault weapons ban to expire.

/Next question
2012-12-17 02:13:45 PM  
3 votes:
Gotta say, the NRA is doing the only smart thing they can right now. Anything that gets posted to their FB page in favor of guns is going to be taken as coming from them. Any moderation they try to do to pro or anti gun posts is going to piss people off. There is nothing they can say that 1) will not appear pathologically self serving, 2) will bring anyone over to their way of thinking that isn't there already (and if they mishandled it they could lose supporters), and 3) is consistent with their stated goal of keeping firearms as unregulated as possible. Not right now. Maybe in a couple of months. I can't say as I approve of the NRA, and I certainly think that their consistent message the the second amendment means no regulations of any kind on firearms is wrong and dangerous, but they're doing the right thing here by going silent for a while.

Further, what can they fight? There's nothing out there that has a chance of passage through congress, not with a Republican majority in the House that knows that the NRA will fund their primary challengers if they waver an iota, whether or not the NRA says anything. Even if something were to come to the floor that looks like it might pass, there will be a couple of off the record calls to folks who know the congressmen in question, and they will be reminded who paid to get them where they are.

Course, when the character assassination of Joe Scarborough beings (which it surely will anon), you'll be able, if you're very good at this sort of thing, to follow the funding right back to the NRA.
2012-12-17 02:09:38 PM  
3 votes:

Endive Wombat: Want to start assigning blame for incidents like this? Blame the insurance companies that are in bed with politicians. A few more incidents like this and hopefully a real conversation about access to mental health services in the US can actually happen.


I have really great insurance and yet still can not afford the ~$300-400 a month it would cost me to get therapy to deal with my complex PTSD. So, I've just bought psychological books regarding the treatment of PTSD and have tried to do it on my own. It's not really working too well, but at least I can get out of bed every morning. I also do yoga and other things to simply try and calm down. My state drastically cut mental health services 4 years ago so unless I was a danger to myself or others they cannot assist.

I'm in no danger to go off and kill anyone, or myself; but goddammit. How does anyone expect people to get the help they need?
2012-12-17 02:04:42 PM  
3 votes:

TypoFlyspray: brnt00: Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy. But let's keep derping about gun control.

You're never going to get all the guns away from the people who have no business having the power to kill at a distance, and you're never going to identify all the violently crazy early enough to keep them from acting on it. SO, given that it is relatively easy to get a gun and given that it is relatively had to get someone institutionalized for violent insanity (until they actually kill someone) perhaps it's not a matter off either well funded national healthcare (including comprehensive mental healthcare) and Removing the stigma associated with using mental healthcare services, OR some common sense gun control, but rather both? Particularly if the latter is informed by the former?

Characterizing what's being seriously discussed regarding gun control right now as Derpery across the board is failing to consider that a lot of the suggestions out there are reasonable by any sense, and itself verges on Derp.



Nonense. Every bad thing that happens is caused exclusively by a single factor that just happens to irritate the person who points out that factor for all to see.
2012-12-17 02:02:52 PM  
3 votes:

TimonC346: And frankly, our current course allowed for what happened Friday. Anyone with instability who ever slips through a mental health system is allowed to buy weapons. That's a massive risk we are taking there.


The shooter did not buy the weapons, he stole them from his mother, he was only 20. Federal law already prohibits the purchase and carrying of handguns by those under 21 without adult supervision.
2012-12-17 02:00:24 PM  
3 votes:

brnt00: Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy. But let's keep derping about gun control.


I've got an amazing insurance plan, which basically allows you to get whatever therapy you need without much in the way of restrictions. My last insurance plan offered 20 yearly visits to an approved, in-network psychologist. My previous one to that allowed $800 of coverage to an in-network provider per calender year - The Dr. billed out at like $120 per 50min session, so you don't get a lot of sessions.

Want to start assigning blame for incidents like this? Blame the insurance companies that are in bed with politicians. A few more incidents like this and hopefully a real conversation about access to mental health services in the US can actually happen.
2012-12-17 01:48:43 PM  
3 votes:
Wow...2 auto-play articles in a row. Please stop. Just stop it.
2012-12-17 01:46:22 PM  
3 votes:
It's a smart move, so as to remove the possibility of comments by idiots who may belong to the NRA (and every organization has idiots, the NRA is not immune to that).
2012-12-17 11:57:23 AM  
3 votes:
waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?
2012-12-17 04:18:46 PM  
2 votes:

Kit Fister: I've also already made arrangements with my wife and family that should I get worse, my therapist will call and notify them, and they will quietly remove the firearms from my home before I even get there.


Do THEY know how many guns you own?
2012-12-17 03:35:59 PM  
2 votes:

Insatiable Jesus: snocone: Red_Fox: Gyrfalcon: The guns were legally obtained and otherwise lawful. The only person responsible here was the shooter. Period.

Had they been illegal in the first place they wouldn't have been there for him to take. What part about that aren't you grasping?

The part where wishing them away will work.


We are wishing them away. You are wishing that these 20 dead children will go away and that America will forget. It's called a tipping point. Welcome to it.


You missed it. The tipping point was June 26th, 2008.
2012-12-17 03:34:10 PM  
2 votes:
LOL now dem senators are crying about assault weapons bans, which still would have done nothing in this case as the killer used pistols. Never let a crisis go to waste.
2012-12-17 03:31:16 PM  
2 votes:
img842.imageshack.us
2012-12-17 02:54:58 PM  
2 votes:

hbk72777: What does the NRA have to do with a mentally ill, non gun owning, mass murderer?


Hang on. I'll ask them on Facebook.
2012-12-17 02:52:10 PM  
2 votes:

brnt00: But let's keep derping about gun control.


High-capacity magazines - for when shooting a first grader ten times isn't enough!
2012-12-17 02:38:05 PM  
2 votes:

onyxruby: This issue has nothing to do with guns, they are the red herring.


People can keep saying this. It doesn't make it true. Even if a majority of people believe it, it doesn't make it true.
2012-12-17 02:24:22 PM  
2 votes:

DROxINxTHExWIND: Has it occured to any of the people talking about the need for increased gun control that guns are not biodegradable? Even if you ban new weapons, there are already many more on the streets. Also, criminals do not follow the law. That is a prerequisite to being a criminal. Why would they care about an assult weapons ban? For the record, the kids werenot killed by a legally-owned firearm. The murderer stole it from his dead mother.


If you tag and title guns, and license gun owners, then make carrying an unlicensed gun or a gun without having a gun license a crime that carries significant jailtime and forfeiture of the weapon, you 1) Increase the risk level of carrying an unlicensed gun to the degree that smart criminals will carry them far less often, 2) Provide an opportunity for law enforcement to inject themselves into the situation before anyone gets shot, 3) Gradually decrease the number of illegal guns in circulation, and 4) Drive the price of those that remain on the black market up beyond the means of most criminals.

Further, if your gun is stolen, you would report it, because if you didn't you would bear some responsibility if it were used. People would be more likely to keep their guns in a secure storage and less likely to share the combination to that storage with their violently crazy kid.

If you want to let the perfect be the enemy of the better, you go ahead, but I'm going to try to make some progress here.
2012-12-17 02:17:37 PM  
2 votes:

Kazan: the answer to his question is MEDIA COVERAGE
the way the media obsesses and sensationalizes these tragedies is creating more of them Link


THE MEDIA is a business. They sensationalize these things because it's news, and people want to hear about it. Blaming THE MEDIA for shiat like this is just like blaming video games. They're running a business, just like video game companies are making money making violent video games. And what are we--mindless consumers of things that warp our brains so much that we can't even be trusted to not go out and shoot a bunch of people? That's pretty feeble.
2012-12-17 02:12:28 PM  
2 votes:

Zeno-25: After all, reinstating the AWB wouldn't have prevented this tragedy, or any of the recent other ones. Most of these massacres are comitted with semi-auto handguns, and good luck getting a blanket ban on any semi-autos past the Supreme Court anytime in the next couple decades. A fundamental change in the way our society approaches mental illness is the only thing that could have prevented this.



Firstly, the ME in Newtown said most or all of the victims were shot with the long rifle, although I agree with you in most OTHER cases it's the semi-auto handguns that are the gun of choice, because nothing packs that much fire power into such an easily-concealable weapon.

While I agree that we need better mental healthcare in this country (which will require evil SOCIALISM!!!), there are a number of other things that would have prevented this shooting from happening:

1. A background check on the shooter's mom when she bought the guns that extended to everyone in her household. Her kid had a long history of issues and had been booted from public school for being a nutcase. That house should not have had guns in it.
2. Better education about keeping firearms locked-up.
3. Not treating guns as a "hobby," which the shooter's mom reportedly did. They are mass-killing, military weapons. They deserve a hell of a lot more respect than comparing them to quilting and stamp collecting.

The shooter was turned away by a gun store earlier this week when he was told there would be a background check and a waiting period. So that law WORKED and it delayed the attack. Who knows how many other would-be shooters out there have been delayed indefinitely by similar laws. If his mom hadn't been irresponsibly storing guns in a home where she knew there was a person with lifelong behavioral issues, we wouldn't be having this conversation today.
2012-12-17 02:10:42 PM  
2 votes:
Has it occured to any of the people talking about the need for increased gun control that guns are not biodegradable? Even if you ban new weapons, there are already many more on the streets. Also, criminals do not follow the law. That is a prerequisite to being a criminal. Why would they care about an assult weapons ban? For the record, the kids werenot killed by a legally-owned firearm. The murderer stole it from his dead mother.
2012-12-17 02:08:25 PM  
2 votes:

The Muthaship: Blaming the NRA for this makes you look stupid.

Just a tip.


I honestly do not know why they would deactivate it - have to wonder if Facebook pulled another stupid stunt and deactivated it... the guns were all legally bought and owned by an adult person. That adult is being reported as responsible, caring, giving and an avid target shooter. The guns were STOLEN and the owner killed by her son. No "law" is going to prevent this.

#1 reason for these "sprees" is for the attention and rise to stardom... far past that of ANY star of the big screen, music or television gets in a year. Coverage on every channel, sometimes even taking scheduled programs off to report more on it (and nothing new, just the same stuff, over and over), the nutbag's photos plastered on the screen, time and time again... instant fame for a year, programs and documentaries made for 30 years and a whacko's name remembered for a long, long time...
2012-12-17 02:02:47 PM  
2 votes:
"Crazy got a gun" is the reason most mass shootings happen. Preventing crazies from getting guns should be our top priority.
2012-12-17 01:59:54 PM  
2 votes:

brnt00: Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy. But let's keep derping about gun control.


You're never going to get all the guns away from the people who have no business having the power to kill at a distance, and you're never going to identify all the violently crazy early enough to keep them from acting on it. SO, given that it is relatively easy to get a gun and given that it is relatively had to get someone institutionalized for violent insanity (until they actually kill someone) perhaps it's not a matter off either well funded national healthcare (including comprehensive mental healthcare) and Removing the stigma associated with using mental healthcare services, OR some common sense gun control, but rather both? Particularly if the latter is informed by the former?

Characterizing what's being seriously discussed regarding gun control right now as Derpery across the board is failing to consider that a lot of the suggestions out there are reasonable by any sense, and itself verges on Derp.

Can anyone really say now that the Gun Show loophole should remain open?
2012-12-17 01:56:36 PM  
2 votes:

The Muthaship: Blaming the NRA for this makes you look stupid.

Just a tip.


Yep and blaming the gun is like blaming a fork for making you fat.
2012-12-17 01:55:26 PM  
2 votes:
Cowards.
2012-12-17 01:54:54 PM  
2 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Well, the federal law that disarms everyone inside government schools. There's that.
2012-12-17 01:52:56 PM  
2 votes:
Acting like the guilty enablers of child murder that they are.

No?

Then why act guilty?
2012-12-17 01:50:26 PM  
2 votes:
Blaming the NRA for this makes you look stupid.

Just a tip.
2012-12-17 01:45:19 PM  
2 votes:

El_Frijole_Blanco: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

You need to go back 30 years when the mental health system got shut down


Before it was, was one's access to it dependent on the ability to pay?

/Yup. Went there.
2012-12-17 12:35:29 PM  
2 votes:
Hollywood has a Facebook page?

Is Hollywood an entity, like Wall Street?

www.hakes.com
2012-12-17 12:26:46 PM  
2 votes:

vudutek: wow, 10lbofbatshiat got a lot of bites.
8.5/10


I dunno if you can count jokes as bites.
2012-12-17 12:18:34 PM  
2 votes:
wow, 10lbofbatshiat got a lot of bites.
8.5/10
2012-12-17 12:10:58 PM  
2 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


So their just as chicken as right wing Senators. How surprising
2012-12-17 12:03:29 PM  
2 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Apparently, guns don't kill people, movies kill people.
2012-12-18 02:06:16 AM  
1 votes:
I think we've got a fundamentally flawed premise that sufficiently detailed laws can remove all "bad things" from society. They won't, because we've stopped agreeing on the definitions of words, and because the complexity of human interactions is far more diverse than can be regulated by laws written by the most contemptible people in our society (lawyers and politicians).

The problems we need to solve involve difficult discussions, the gradual adoption of new norms of behavior, and yet they must include the acceptance of outlying thoughts and words. The outliers are where we find both genius and madness. It's a fantasy that enough words in legislation can protect society from danger while still encouraging free will.

So, don't farking make new laws. Instead, have a block party with your neighbors! Have someone talk to that strange kid down the block who talks to his elbows and form an opinion: normal weird kid or head case? Does he talk to his elbow because he is making novel connections and the elbow is a convenient abstraction? Or are his farking elbows talking back to him? If so, your neighborhood has a slight issue that everyone else in the neighborhood needs to address, basically by friending the hell out of him. Also, farking give up on the home-schooling bullshiat and, for that matter, get rid of private schools. Fark you if you don't agree, but ALL OF THE KIDS ARE ALL OF OUR KIDS.

Want to protect all of our kids? Not gonna happen with that free will thing in the mix. Neither will demonizing the oddball-du-jour. We just need to try to kill fewer kids without adding one more wedge issue that convinces us that the other side is irrational and filled with hate. We need to work with the other side, even if they're obviously assholes.
2012-12-18 12:26:33 AM  
1 votes:

The Southern Dandy: Forget banning assault rifles. We need to ban hands, fists and feet. They're the real killers. They kill twice as many people as rifles do.

[i.imgur.com image 850x776]


From the same data ... over half of all murders in the US are committed with hand guns, devices whose primary design function is to kill human beings. More than any other method, including all other types of guns and weapons.

Here's a reality check:

1. The second amendment, as envisaged by its authors, has no relevance today. In no way, shape or form could gun enthusiasts overthrow the government and the US military.

2. US society would be safer if there were far fewer guns and less types of guns. Yes, it will take a long time to put the djinn back in the bottle, but it was done successfully in the UK and Australia anfd can be done here.

3. All criminally owned guns start out as legally owned guns. Restricting the ultimate source of supply does eventually have an impact on downstream availability.

4. Strict gun controls are not inconsistent with a thriving recreational firearms and shooting industry (c.f. Scotland)

5. While incidents like school shootings grab the headlines, the real opportunity to save lives is making sure the average person who has a bad day doesn't have a lethal weapon in their possession to facilitate doing something regrettable and tragic. The father of two in Phildelphia who complains to his neighbor about dog turds shouldn't be at risk of being shot.

6. Pistols as "home defence" are a statistically proven crock of shiat. See 5. above.

7. It's time to start with a clean sheet of paper and consider new gun laws ... here's what I am thinking:

- no guns designed for killing humans allowed in private hands
- limited number of types of guns, to facilitate legitimate sports uses
- .22 rifles for target shooting, single shot load only
- 12 gauge shotguns for bambis, bunnies, etc.
- locked gun cabinet, inspected periodically by police
- all guns tracked, accounted for, shown to police annually
- forensic test fires from all guns taken by manufacturer and kept on file
- limits on quantities of guns and ammo held by each person
- collectable guns not covered by the above have to be permanently disabled

7. Yes, someone can make their own gun. Yes, they can strangle a kid with a shoelace or make a bomb. But as the philosopher Izzard observes: "Guns don't kill people. People kill people. But I think you'll find the gun helps". We don't have to make it easy for them.

8. Implementing an Australian-like reduction in guns will save thousands of lives a year within a couple of decades. The data doesn't lie. Yes it can work in America, you are not special. 200 years ago everyone thought their life would be over if they couldn't own black people, and the south is still here.
2012-12-18 12:12:44 AM  
1 votes:
I'm 54 years old, graduated high school in 1976, growing up every pickup truck in the high school parking lot had a gun in it. Every house had a gun near the front door. We didn't have the violence back then as we do now. So how's it the guns fault?
2012-12-17 10:36:15 PM  
1 votes:
Void_Beavis

Smartest
Funniest
2012-12-17 09:02:41 PM
Gdalescrboz: Void_Beavis SmartestFunniest 2012-12-17 08:42:59 PM


Mrbogey: Void_Beavis: I blame the NRA for this. 100 percent.

You can't really blame anyone else on this one and expect things to change in the future.

The NRA funds politicians who de-regulate common sense controls over dangerous firearms - the same politicians who strike down any and all funding for state-run mental health institutions.

Sorry. You can flame me all you want. I don't care. But some asshole has got to take some responsibility for promoting dangerous social policy which leads to farking 6 year olds getting slaughtered like pigs.


What's to flame. It's wrong and most people will realize that and promptly ignore you and what you have to say about the situation.


2). If the NRA had their way, there would be vending machines with semi-automatic weapons at every strip-mall in america. To believe otherwise is just being dishonest.

You should stop posting. You aren't helping the fight for reasonable gun control laws; in fact, you make those of us who want reasonable gun control laws second guess ourselves when we see that gibberish

Of whom you are not, instead choosing to exert moral superiority by way of logical fallacy.

Try again.


Ya, because I enjoy seeing 20 kindergarten kids shot. Is that who you think is on the other side of your debate? No wonder you're ideas are so farking outlandish
2012-12-17 10:00:35 PM  
1 votes:

FuryOfFirestorm: The Southern Dandy: All this talk about hunting and home defense is fatuous Jeffrey. The 2nd amendment makes no mention of hunting or personal defense. However, it does mention a militia, which connotes warfare, and in the same sentence it mentions the right of the PEOPLE to bear arms. Good luck fighting a modern military using only breech loaders and 5 round magazines.

It's funny that a lot of NRA and 2nd Amendment supporters are arguing that keeping guns in the hands of civilians would prevent or stop these events, but how many of these mass shootings were actually prevented or stopped by armed civilians?


The shootings in gun-free zones or other ones?
2012-12-17 09:15:07 PM  
1 votes:
Probably because no one bombards the facebook page of Budweiser or the various Restaurant associations when someone gets drunk and kills someone-car, fire, whatever.
No one goes and flips out at convenience store fb pages when they sell gasoline and someone uses it for arson.
2012-12-17 09:12:20 PM  
1 votes:

Void_Beavis: Right. So if you've never had an evaluation then there's no need for the prescription. Hence "clean background".

I'm surprised this is so hard for you.


Right because people on hardcore antipsychotics just get medical evaluations and are prescribed medications by chance, like a doctor accidentally finding a tumor in a routine xray.
2012-12-17 08:50:02 PM  
1 votes:

Void_Beavis: If the NRA had their way, there would be vending machines with semi-automatic weapons at every strip-mall in america. To believe otherwise is just being dishonest.


ah ok, so you're just out of your mind.

since you're out of your mind, when your doctor prescribes an antipsychotic and it is dispensed by a pharmacy, your name/address is added to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System as part of the prohibited persons criteria, therefore of you or someone at that address attempts to purchase a firearm (you have to show proof of residency), it is flagged by the background check system and you are denied sale.

There, an actual direct and meaningful solution to what happened, not lib rambling.
2012-12-17 08:46:57 PM  
1 votes:
Void_Beavis SmartestFunniest 2012-12-17 08:42:59 PM


Mrbogey: Void_Beavis: I blame the NRA for this. 100 percent.

You can't really blame anyone else on this one and expect things to change in the future.

The NRA funds politicians who de-regulate common sense controls over dangerous firearms - the same politicians who strike down any and all funding for state-run mental health institutions.

Sorry. You can flame me all you want. I don't care. But some asshole has got to take some responsibility for promoting dangerous social policy which leads to farking 6 year olds getting slaughtered like pigs.


What's to flame. It's wrong and most people will realize that and promptly ignore you and what you have to say about the situation.


2). If the NRA had their way, there would be vending machines with semi-automatic weapons at every strip-mall in america. To believe otherwise is just being dishonest.


You should stop posting. You aren't helping the fight for reasonable gun control laws; in fact, you make those of us who want reasonable gun control laws second guess ourselves when we see that gibberish
2012-12-17 08:31:01 PM  
1 votes:

Void_Beavis: I blame the NRA for this. 100 percent.

You can't really blame anyone else on this one and expect things to change in the future.

The NRA funds politicians who de-regulate common sense controls over dangerous firearms - the same politicians who strike down any and all funding for state-run mental health institutions.

Sorry. You can flame me all you want. I don't care. But some asshole has got to take some responsibility for promoting dangerous social policy which leads to farking 6 year olds getting slaughtered like pigs.



What's to flame. It's wrong and most people will realize that and promptly ignore you and what you have to say about the situation.
2012-12-17 07:41:50 PM  
1 votes:
I wonder why no one went to get comments from a local farmer when timothy McVeigh blew up a building full of children using cow shiat...
2012-12-17 07:18:44 PM  
1 votes:

FuryOfFirestorm: It's funny that a lot of NRA and 2nd Amendment supporters are arguing that keeping guns in the hands of civilians would prevent or stop these events, but how many of these mass shootings were actually prevented or stopped by armed civilians?


Armed civilians? Quite a few...
Link

I've also heard the statistic that an armed non-police officer stopped roughly 1 in 9 shootings but I can't find the stat right now.

Also, When civilians intervened, the body count is lower than when there is a wait for the police.

Link

How much time did Adam Lanza have to walk through the school and choose his targets? If he had a bolt action rifle, would it have changed anything?
2012-12-17 06:35:14 PM  
1 votes:

TimonC346: considering guns are neither mentally or physically addictive.

Bull-toot.

Your entire constitution has been raped senseless by a long succession of retarded politicians, and the American citizenry basically ignored it.

EXCEPT that as soon as someone talks about taking the toys away, the rhetoric is like listening to a homeless guy begging for a bottle of vodka. You can't tell me that this isn't an addiction.

For further proof, check out any of the fine 'enthusiast' sites for firearm owners. Obsessive doesn't even come close.

/Canadian
//Firearm owner
///Gun nuts here aren't any better, but at least they can't hide specious arguments behind a constitution
////They elect idiots like Vic Toews for that.
2012-12-17 06:31:35 PM  
1 votes:

Flakeloaf: EViLTeW: Youtube is pro-marine? pro-invasion-of-Iraq?
Throw me a bone here, I'm trying to understand how Youtube and the NRA are comparable in these two situations.

Whoosh.

Hint: The NRA closed their FB page to comments to avoid idiocy.


I still don't see what that has to do with your boobies.

Nra likely shut down their facebook page because they are vehemently pro-gun and people who are pro-banning guns would attempt to use the nra's stance as an excuse to rant and troll all over the page.

as far as I'm aware, youtube (google) only promotes political agenda related to internet legislature, which has no relation to civilians getting killed by marines in iraq.

If youtube was trying to about idiocy, they wouldn't have a comment system...or allow uploads.
2012-12-17 06:01:38 PM  
1 votes:
Uuuuh, there's nothing the NRA can say that would remotely sound good right now. There is nothing to say when 20 kindergarteners and 6 faculty get gunned down. Anyone who tries to defend any part of the actions the kid took on Friday is a dipshiat.
2012-12-17 05:47:35 PM  
1 votes:

andersoncouncil42: brnt00: Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy. But let's keep derping about gun control.

How about both. Nobody needs automatic weapons.


The guns you're objecting to, only LOOK LIKE automatic weapons. It's OK, the anti-gunners rely on confusion and frequent distortion of that fact.
2012-12-17 05:40:14 PM  
1 votes:

Flakeloaf: EViLTeW: Youtube is pro-marine? pro-invasion-of-Iraq?
Throw me a bone here, I'm trying to understand how Youtube and the NRA are comparable in these two situations.

Whoosh.

Hint: The NRA closed their FB page to comments to avoid idiocy.


yep. About the same people who threatened the mass effect page saying they had blood on their hands just because the brother of the shooter (unrelated) had liked a mass effect page.

people are beyond retarded. stir up a little emotions, and they go from normal IQ to "below room temp"
2012-12-17 05:28:51 PM  
1 votes:

EViLTeW: Youtube is pro-marine? pro-invasion-of-Iraq?
Throw me a bone here, I'm trying to understand how Youtube and the NRA are comparable in these two situations.


Whoosh.

Hint: The NRA closed their FB page to comments to avoid idiocy.
2012-12-17 05:07:53 PM  
1 votes:

Kit Fister: When it becomes an issue, I will.


Too late.

You're being selfish.

Grow up.
2012-12-17 05:02:51 PM  
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Dooms Day idiots - you know, MORONS with a "cause".
Fear of a black man in the white house.
The media whipping these people into a frenzy.

Have you watched that reality crap AxMen? They feature this case of arrested development that carries and uses what looks and sounds like a .44mag. One week he was agitated over something and discharged it into the ground emptying the cylinder. Another week he was busily shooting a tree to knock it down and then using the barrel as a lever to pry the trunk off the stump.

The moron in the gun shop sees this and thinks it's "Reality" and it's okay to do this. The mental patient see's this and feels they can do it too. A 10 second blurb in the beginning "some actions portrayed in this show blah blah blah" isn't going to register with these people. It's just like the FBEEEYE warning, who reads that?

Don't think this is the case? Ask yourself - why do advertisers pay BILLIONS of dollars every year to advertise on TV. It's because people believe it.

It's not the only reason but it's a start
2012-12-17 05:00:29 PM  
1 votes:

TypoFlyspray: Course, when the character assassination of Joe Scarborough beings (which it surely will anon), you'll be able, if you're very good at this sort of thing, to follow the funding right back to the NRA.


I don't know about character assasination, but I saw his antics this morning as I got ready for work. He and his band of idiots had no idea what they were talking about as far as guns are concerned, despite numerous claims of growing up around guns and hunting. He deserves to be called out on saying the AR-15 SEMIautomatic rifle will fire off 30 rounds per second. The fully automatic military version will only fire off 13rps.

Other gems included calling a Glock an assault weapon (and I swear I heard them mention that it too has a 30rps rate of fire) and mentioning that people can buy miniguns. Someone needs to bombard their page with links to the Cracked article which explain why the minigun is a moot point, between weight and the fact that no average human can carry and fire the son of a biatch, despite what they saw in Predator. There's also the fact that they're rare and run almost half a million bucks.

At least Mika had the sense to accept that she knows shiat about guns and sat there silent and scowling. Of course, unless she's reading a teleprompter or stuttering emotionally in disagreement, that's all she seems to do anyway.

Honestly, after I heard Wolf Blitzer ask someone "Do hunters need semiautomatic rifles to hunt?" yesterday, I knew the derp was gonna be stronger on MSNBC. I just had no idea I was gonna end up all:

a0.twimg.com

Don't get me wrong, I fully expected the gun control people to go off the deep end, but I had hoped that after the years of ridicule over their issues with getting their facts straight, they would've done some god damned research this time. Instead, they sound more ridiculous than ever. Yes, it's a tragedy and people on both sides are emotional, but for the love of god, be rational and make sure your argument is backed by facts, not bullshiat and hyperbole.
2012-12-17 04:59:54 PM  
1 votes:
ah the NRA cowards....

they were probably too busy humping Zombie Heston
2012-12-17 04:37:55 PM  
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Canada watches the SAME movies and TV shows. Mass killings virtually non existent.
2012-12-17 04:35:37 PM  
1 votes:

Kit Fister: I keep an FFL-style A&D book in the gun safe that logs serial numbers, type, and source of all of my firearms purchases.


Look, if you REALLY love your family and you REALLY think you need a contingency plan then you REALLY need to get another hobby. If you get worse likely the first thing you'll do is stop seeing your therapist so your family will get no notice.

Shoot with a friend, continue to advocate for 2A rights, Fark til your eyes bleed and take up archery and paintball.

Get rid of those guns.
2012-12-17 04:34:33 PM  
1 votes:

USP .45:
Federal Categories of Persons Prohibited From Receiving
...
A person adjudicated mental defective or involuntarily committed to a mental institution or incompetent to handle own affairs


Well, thank goodness. I feel safer already.

So, if you voluntarily commit yourself, you can have all the guns you want. Or, if you're just psychotic but medicated, you can buy weapons - we just have to hope that you keep taking your meds. Oh, wait - that won't even be on record, so anyone with antisocial personality disorder is free to head down to a gun dealer and buy whatever he wants. No interviews, no references, nothing. So long as he has no criminal record and hasn't been involuntarily committed, he's good to go.

When you look at what we know about Sandy Hook, we know that the laws as they are did jack shiat. Maybe if his mother had to answer a few questions like "Does anyone in your home have a form of mental illness?" those guns would not have been available to him. Of course, if she was stockpiling weapons and ammo for some apocalyptic event as has been reported, then the mental issue should have been caught in the purchaser, not in the home.

Link

Marsha said [Nancy] had turned her home 'into a fortress'. She added: 'Nancy had a survivalist philosophy which is why she was stockpiling guns. She had them for defense.

'She was stockpiling food. She grew up on a farm in New Hampshire. She was skilled with guns. We talked about preppers and preparing for the economy collapsing.'


---

Two days before the massacre, Lanza went to a sporting goods store in Danbury, Connecticut, and tried to buy a rifle. He was turned down because he did not want to undergo a background check or abide by the state's waiting period for gun sales.

Link

But, he had the weapons at home, so he was free to do what he wanted to with them. Hell, under Connecticut law he couldn't have the pistols since he was 20 years old, but the Bushmaster was OK.

Adam Lanza was too young to legally own or carry handguns under Connecticut law.

The system works!
2012-12-17 04:29:30 PM  
1 votes:

Kazan: the answer to his question is MEDIA COVERAGE

the way the media obsesses and sensationalizes these tragedies is creating more of them Link


Yep. You want to be the most famous "bad-ass" in the country for 15 minutes, go kill a bunch of people. Everybody will know who you are! What unknown loser could want more? Of course, never releasing their name or picture so that they die anonymously is out of the question, that would be censorship...

PreMortem: Court ordered mandatory psychological exam, then involuntary institutionalisation.

We are allowing too many whack jobs to roam freely.


Well, you see they have rights. And the rights of a few dangerous whack jobs are more important than the constitutionally guaranteed rights of millions and millions of law abiding citizens
2012-12-17 04:27:20 PM  
1 votes:

Zeno-25: dittybopper: It's a smart move, so as to remove the possibility of comments by idiots who may belong to the NRA (and every organization has idiots, the NRA is not immune to that).

Probably this. I'm sure we will see a full-throated defense of the current status quo on gun control once all of the emotions calm down a bit.

After all, reinstating the AWB wouldn't have prevented this tragedy, or any of the recent other ones. Most of these massacres are comitted with semi-auto handguns, and good luck getting a blanket ban on any semi-autos past the Supreme Court anytime in the next couple decades.

A fundamental change in the way our society approaches mental illness is the only thing that could have prevented this. We need professionals in schools who can evaluate at-risk individuals, maybe create a blacklist of people with serious illnesses which would be integrated into the background check process. It would have to be pretty invasive, though, as even just putting those who have been involuntarily comitted on such a list wouldn't have stopped most of these tragedies.

We don't have a gun control problem, we have a crazy control problem.


You would be granting an enormous amount of power to the mental health professionals to lock people up without trials. One psychologist's dangerous sociopath would just be a quirky kid to another. If you are thinking that these diagnoses are well-defined and well agreed-upon you would be wrong. Remember how not so long ago homosexuality was considered a disease? Hell, regular medical doctors often disagree on diagnoses for physical diseases. It's thousands of times worse trying to define something as nebulous as mental health.
2012-12-17 04:23:06 PM  
1 votes:
www.mattbors.com
2012-12-17 04:17:13 PM  
1 votes:

USP .45: Giltric: Kit Fister: I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.

I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).

And this is where someone like me who passionately supports the RKBA says without snark that you should not own firearms.

How would this be enforced? We're basically talking about establishing second class citizens and annexing medical records by the government; a maintained by a central database most logically operated by the DEA, that monitors a new schedule of prescriptions (antipsychotics, etc) that when prescribed strip the ability to own firearms. I see no other way to do it, if it should be done.


State laws currently prohibit people diagnosed with certain conditions from getting a drivers license.
2012-12-17 04:16:59 PM  
1 votes:

Kit Fister: Insatiable Jesus: Kit Fister: Giltric: Kit Fister: I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.

I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).

And this is where someone like me who passionately supports the RKBA says without snark that you should not own firearms.

*sigh* BLOOD PRESSURE, not BIPOLAR.


Based on your posts, it could have gone either way.

Fair point, however, while i do see a therapist for being mildly autistic (aspergers) and occasional depression, nothing nearly so horrible.

I've also already made arrangements with my wife and family that should I get worse, my therapist will call and notify them, and they will quietly remove the firearms from my home before I even get there.

Further, if anything, I tend to be self-destructive and not violent, so I have figured to voluntarily disarm and get rid of my guns at the point where my depression gets bad enough to even start considering violence or suicide.

I guess i'm one of the few people out there that's at least willing to own up to the fact that, should i have a problem, I need to have a contingency plan.


29.media.tumblr.com
2012-12-17 04:08:45 PM  
1 votes:

Giltric: Insatiable Jesus: Is it wrong for me to take such pleasure in watching the GOP branding itself the Pro-School Massacre Party?

It fits nicely with the Pro-Rape, Pro-Greed and Pro-Torture planks in their platform. LOL. Enjoy GOP.

What have liberals done to stop rape greed and torture?


Oppose the GOP.
2012-12-17 04:02:47 PM  
1 votes:

Kit Fister: I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).



I wonder if it is even legal for you to own one gun. I think both Fed and State laws prohibit the mentally ill from possessing guns, right? Are you admitting, in an open forum, that you are mentally ill and a gun nut?
2012-12-17 03:57:27 PM  
1 votes:

Kit Fister:


I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.

I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).


You take bi-polar meds and you claim to be healthy?
2012-12-17 03:57:02 PM  
1 votes:
Americans believe that if anyone under a certain age sees or hears about sex or nudity in music, movies, tv shows or video games the kids will be damaged for life. But violence will have no effect at all.

/Love is bad
//Violence is neutral
///Money is God
2012-12-17 03:56:55 PM  
1 votes:

rufus-t-firefly: Tax, title and registration need some kind of identification.


Umm no....you do not need to do any of those things to own a car.......you do need to do that in case you are driving on public roads and get pulled over though.

Ever watch COPS?
2012-12-17 03:56:48 PM  
1 votes:

Joe Blowme: rufus-t-firefly: Joe Blowme: LOL now dem senators are crying about assault weapons bans, which still would have done nothing in this case as the killer used pistols. Never let a crisis go to waste.

Never stop posting in ignorance.

Link

Authorities recovered three semi-automatic firearms next to Adam Lanza: a .223 caliber Bushmaster XM-15 rifle, a 10mm Glock handgun, and a 9mm SIG Sauer handgun...police say Lanza used the rifle against most of the victims. According to the medical examiner, all victims were shot with the same "long weapon" and were hit multiple times.

My bad... still... how that ban on heroin working for ya?


So, you shift from being factually inaccurate to moving the goalposts? OK.

How how many mass murders by heroin overdose have you seen recently? Besides, if I'm stopped by a cop with heroin in my car, I'm going to jail. If I'm stopped with a couple of Bushmasters in my car, no problem (I'm in Texas - other states may be different). Assuming I'm just cited for speeding or let off with a warning, I'm free to go do whatever I was on my way to do before being stopped.
2012-12-17 03:51:58 PM  
1 votes:

Giltric: rufus-t-firefly: onyxruby: IlGreven: onyxruby: This issue has nothing to do with guns, they are the red herring.

People can keep saying this. It doesn't make it true. Even if a majority of people believe it, it doesn't make it true.

Just curious, do you try to get cars banned because of the very large number of people killed by them every year? This is a people issue, just like drunk driving.

Really, keep using the "CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!" argument. It definitely makes a good point - for more regulations on firearms. 

[i48.photobucket.com image 500x675]

See, a drunk driver can be caught before he kills anyone, because the mere act of driving drunk is illegal. However, we usually find out that some whackjob had an arsenal only AFTER he kills a couple dozen people because we don't track ammo purchases or require registration of all firearms across the board.

But you only need cash to buy a car.
You do not nead a license or training or good health.


Tax, title and registration need some kind of identification.

But, since you're pointing out some small details, I take it you're OK with requiring insurance and registration of all firearms? It's a start.
2012-12-17 03:47:36 PM  
1 votes:

Kit Fister: rufus-t-firefly: onyxruby: IlGreven: onyxruby: This issue has nothing to do with guns, they are the red herring.

People can keep saying this. It doesn't make it true. Even if a majority of people believe it, it doesn't make it true.

Just curious, do you try to get cars banned because of the very large number of people killed by them every year? This is a people issue, just like drunk driving.

Really, keep using the "CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!" argument. It definitely makes a good point - for more regulations on firearms. 

[i48.photobucket.com image 500x675]

See, a drunk driver can be caught before he kills anyone, because the mere act of driving drunk is illegal. However, we usually find out that some whackjob had an arsenal only AFTER he kills a couple dozen people because we don't track ammo purchases or require registration of all firearms across the board.

And at what point do you differentiate between the guy who legally owns lots of guns and ammo, and someone who's a whackjob?


Do you own a lot of guns? Fine. Did you buy a lot of guns and ammo in a short amount of time? Perhaps you need to be interviewed to find out if you're going through a divorce, or stopped taking your meds...

Perhaps a well-timed "Do you have any mentally ill people in your household? Are your weapons secured against others using the weapons without your knowledge?" might have helped prevent this particular massacre.
2012-12-17 03:43:40 PM  
1 votes:

Joe Blowme: LOL now dem senators are crying about assault weapons bans, which still would have done nothing in this case as the killer used pistols. Never let a crisis go to waste.


Never stop posting in ignorance.

Link

Authorities recovered three semi-automatic firearms next to Adam Lanza: a .223 caliber Bushmaster XM-15 rifle, a 10mm Glock handgun, and a 9mm SIG Sauer handgun...police say Lanza used the rifle against most of the victims. According to the medical examiner, all victims were shot with the same "long weapon" and were hit multiple times.
2012-12-17 03:35:35 PM  
1 votes:

Kuroshin: TypoFlyspray: snocone: Fear drives the need for prevention of violent crimes.
Problem is that the time line defies the concept.
So politicians and charlitans sell the concept to the afeared masses. PROFIT!

There is no law against violence that will ever provide safety from violence.

So making murder illegal does nothing to change the rate of murder?

Silly.

Nothing will ever provide complete safety. Doesn't mean that a well crafted, intelligently enforced law can't increase the level of safety by making violence more difficult.

Or we could address the actual problem, by identifying those who need help, then giving them that help.

But no, that's just crazy talk.


You job, should you accept, is to make that profitable for the boreasses that run this madhouse.
Should solve the problem if you actually care for people.
2012-12-17 03:20:49 PM  
1 votes:

Red_Fox: Gyrfalcon: The guns were legally obtained and otherwise lawful. The only person responsible here was the shooter. Period.

Had they been illegal in the first place they wouldn't have been there for him to take. What part about that aren't you grasping?


Ha! Ha! LOL. You owe me a new keyboard!!!!!!

Had they been illegal in the first place they wouldn't have been there for him to take? You mean like Cocaine or pot or prostitutes? I don't snort, smoke or patronize but if I wanted to, I'm sure I could fine any of these 3 within 30 minutes.

You really live in a fantasy world don't you? How about going the 'Full Monty' and tell us how it should have been illegal to commit murder? If there were laws against that, I'm sure the shooter would have followed them.
2012-12-17 03:07:53 PM  
1 votes:

dittybopper: TypoFlyspray: If you tag and title guns, and license gun owners, then make carrying an unlicensed gun or a gun without having a gun license a crime that carries significant jailtime and forfeiture of the weapon, you 1) Increase the risk level of carrying an unlicensed gun to the degree that smart criminals will carry them far less often, 2) Provide an opportunity for law enforcement to inject themselves into the situation before anyone gets shot, 3) Gradually decrease the number of illegal guns in circulation, and 4) Drive the price of those that remain on the black market up beyond the means of most criminals.

There is a problem with this: You can make a gun relatively easily. This guy made the receiver for an AK (the actual part that is classified as a "gun") using an old used shovel.

My main hunting rifle was handmade for me by my father.

Guns are a 600 year old technology that for most of that time were made using tools and materials inferior to those found at your Lowes or Home Depot.


Really? I'm happy your father was a craftsman. Hand forged the barrel, did he?

People who are committed to killing someone with a gun will do so. Period.

What I am saying is that upping the level of commitment needed will dissuade some from killing and redirect others into either less deadly (knives, Axes, swords) or more easily detected (Bombs. Bioweapons) methods. I'd say it's worth it.

Basically, when your second amendment starts infringing on my first amendment right to freely assemble, I think it's the 2nd that gives.
2012-12-17 03:04:14 PM  
1 votes:

easypray: The NRA and gun lobby has an indefensible position and situations like CT only draw attention to it.

6% of Americans hunted last year.

Since Americans are not ever attacked by a squadron of bad guys, there is no argument for allowing Tanks, RPG's, assault rifles, ICBM's etc for home use.

Demanding that people be allowed spray 100 rounds in 1 min without limits is stupid.

When a crazy person decides they want to kill ...we cant stop them. They can bash, stab etc and will catch someone by surprise.

When a crazy person decides they want to kill 30 people - they cant do that without access to military type firepower / and explosives.

The tragedy may not have been avoidable, but it was certainly something that could have been mitigated. The NRA knows it and they should be ashamed at their lobby success.


Did this guy use any Tanks/RPGs/ICBMs? (The answer is no)
Did he use an "assault rifle" capable of firing 100 rounds in 1 minute? (Unless his last name was Deschain, Dean or Chambers the answer is also no)

If the NRA took their facebook page offline due to the school shootings, its likely because they were smart enough to comprehend that there is no possibility of even remotely rational conversation regarding gun control right after a bunch of children were gunned down.
2012-12-17 03:03:31 PM  
1 votes:

Endive Wombat: then make carrying an unlicensed gun or a gun without having a gun license a crime that carries significant jailtime and forfeiture of the weapon

Criminals will still be criminals. This really only punishes law abiding citizens.


Law abiding citizens will have gun licenses. Those who don't...say it with me...will be criminals

Or, to use the gun nuts' oh-so-cherished car analogy: Drivers' licenses only punish law-abiding citizens. Criminals who don't have licenses will still have access to cars.
2012-12-17 03:00:31 PM  
1 votes:
Meh, the gun lobby make's every gun-loving 'merican think the government is going to take away his or her revolver, shotgun, or hunting rifle. In actuality, they're using that support to sustain the minority of gun owners who believe they need to protect themselves against the government. Those folks have their own private arms race against law enforcement....and that's where the profits are.
2012-12-17 03:00:01 PM  
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: The guns were legally obtained and otherwise lawful. The only person responsible here was the shooter. Period.


Had they been illegal in the first place they wouldn't have been there for him to take. What part about that aren't you grasping?
2012-12-17 02:58:47 PM  
1 votes:

letrole: letrole: Can't blame guns, they were even more unrestricted and available in the past.

IlGreven Yes, the founding fathers had unrestricted access to machine guns and assault rifles. Hell, they even had Glocks back in the day.

Richard Speck mass murdered eight nurses with a knife. He could have executed them with a revolver if he chose. Mass killings do not require automatic weapons.


Makes it much easier. Guy in Connecticut walks into a school with a brace of guns and 20 people die. Guy in China walks into a school and 22 kids get cut. No one dies.

Call me whacky, but I'll take my chances with a guy with a knife if the other option is a guy with a gun.
2012-12-17 02:58:46 PM  
1 votes:

TypoFlyspray: If you tag and title guns, and license gun owners, then make carrying an unlicensed gun or a gun without having a gun license a crime that carries significant jailtime and forfeiture of the weapon, you 1) Increase the risk level of carrying an unlicensed gun to the degree that smart criminals will carry them far less often, 2) Provide an opportunity for law enforcement to inject themselves into the situation before anyone gets shot, 3) Gradually decrease the number of illegal guns in circulation, and 4) Drive the price of those that remain on the black market up beyond the means of most criminals.

Further, if your gun is stolen, you would report it, because if you didn't you would bear some responsibility if it were used. People would be more likely to keep their guns in a secure storage and less likely to share the combination to that storage with their violently crazy kid.

If you want to let the perfect be the enemy of the better, you go ahead, but I'm going to try to make some progress here.



I like where your head is at, but this would never work and here is why:

If you tag and title guns, and license gun owners
Tagging and titling the guns creates a paper trail, which on the one hand is good, but on the other hand does nothing to account for the millions of guns that are now on the street and that cross into the US from Mexico. There will still be unaccounted guns. For those that are accounted for, that list becomes a shopping list for criminals who somehow manage to get their hands on it either by legal means like the Freedom of Information Act or illegal means like hacking for example. Look at the multiple security breeches on a yearly basis and how many SSNs and credit card numbers are hacked...Do you really think that the Federal Government will have this information in the most secure facility possible? Not likely as it is WAY too cost prohibitive.

then make carrying an unlicensed gun or a gun without having a gun license a crime that carries significant jailtime and forfeiture of the weapon

Criminals will still be criminals. This really only punishes law abiding citizens.

1) Increase the risk level of carrying an unlicensed gun to the degree that smart criminals will carry them far less often

Maybe. Only maybe. Sure the guys at the top may not carry, but their foot soldiers still will. This still goes back to the fact that criminals by their very nature do not follow the law, no matter how harsh the punishment.

2) Provide an opportunity for law enforcement to inject themselves into the situation before anyone gets shot


Not really sure what you are talking about here...

3) Gradually decrease the number of illegal guns in circulation,


How do you propose to do this? The only answer I've got is create more jobs, bolster the economy and make the criminal lifestyle less financially attractive.

Further, if your gun is stolen, you would report it, because if you didn't you would bear some responsibility if it were used. People would be more likely to keep their guns in a secure storage and less likely to share the combination to that storage with their violently crazy kid.

I cannot imagine this would be held up by SCOTUS. If someone breaks into my house and takes my things including my gun(s), I do not see how I am responsible for their actions post B&E. Are you responsible for the actions of someone who stole your car? Again, thef, and B&E are already illegal. 

Fine, use a biometric safe that requires a hand print...nothing is stopping me from slitting your throat, chopping off your hand and getting in from there...or at least threatening to do this to you...
2012-12-17 02:58:34 PM  
1 votes:

letrole: letrole: Can't blame guns, they were even more unrestricted and available in the past.

IlGreven Yes, the founding fathers had unrestricted access to machine guns and assault rifles. Hell, they even had Glocks back in the day.

Richard Speck mass murdered eight nurses with a knife. He could have executed them with a revolver if he chose. Mass killings do not require automatic weapons.


That's not an argument for legalizing automatic weapons.
2012-12-17 02:56:38 PM  
1 votes:

brnt00: But let's keep derping about gun control.


Keep spewing that bullshiat. What'll you do when 'Obama comes for your guns' like you pro gun people like to say...that's your fantasy isn't it? Looks like you gun lovers are going to get what you've always wanted...a showdown with the left over assault weapon and handgun bans and as a bonus...it's a brown guy!
2012-12-17 02:56:08 PM  
1 votes:
The NRA and gun lobby has an indefensible position and situations like CT only draw attention to it.

6% of Americans hunted last year.

Since Americans are not ever attacked by a squadron of bad guys, there is no argument for allowing Tanks, RPG's, assault rifles, ICBM's etc for home use.

Demanding that people be allowed spray 100 rounds in 1 min without limits is stupid.

When a crazy person decides they want to kill ...we cant stop them. They can bash, stab etc and will catch someone by surprise.

When a crazy person decides they want to kill 30 people - they cant do that without access to military type firepower / and explosives.

The tragedy may not have been avoidable, but it was certainly something that could have been mitigated. The NRA knows it and they should be ashamed at their lobby success.
2012-12-17 02:54:34 PM  
1 votes:

Kuroshin: Or we could address the actual problem, by identifying those who need help, then giving them that help.


So, again, in an effort to keep your 2nd amendment rights, you want to restrict both the 2nd and 1st amendment rights of people who score poorly on mental health evaluations, yet have never harmed anyone? Meanwhile, the healthy farkwads who kill their wives and kids before offing themselves will still have that opportunity? 

Mental health services would not have stopped Jovan Belcher. They might have stopped Chris Benoit, but that opens up a whole new can of worms, since he had no family history of mental illness; said mental illness was caused mostly by the bumps he took as a pro wrestler. Concussions can produce effects similar to those found in long-term mental psychoses. Does that mean we should lock up anyone who's ever wrestled, played football, or just hit their head on the pavement really hard one day?
2012-12-17 02:54:17 PM  
1 votes:

Kuroshin: Or we could address the actual problem, by identifying those who need help, then giving them that help.

But no, that's just crazy talk.


All in favor of it. That's a big part of the problem and needs to be fixed. But since it's not a perfect solution, let's see what else we can do to make violent impulses less deadly. I recommend we consider some reasonable gun control laws, enforcing the ones on the books, and getting rid of the loopholes.
2012-12-17 02:52:05 PM  
1 votes:

letrole: But random shootings increase. Can't blame Religion, it's less influential today than ever.

Wow, what planet are you on?

Can't blame guns, they were even more unrestricted and available in the past.
Clearly it's not one where they teach history.

Can't blame bullies, *everyone* used to shun and pick-on the misfits.
And few of the misfits went and snapped and killed a bunch of people, because you could lock up the truly crazy before they snapped.
2012-12-17 02:51:40 PM  
1 votes:
What does the NRA have to do with a mentally ill, non gun owning, mass murderer?
2012-12-17 02:49:50 PM  
1 votes:

onyxruby: IlGreven: onyxruby: This issue has nothing to do with guns, they are the red herring.

People can keep saying this. It doesn't make it true. Even if a majority of people believe it, it doesn't make it true.

Just curious, do you try to get cars banned because of the very large number of people killed by them every year? This is a people issue, just like drunk driving.


...and yet another strawman gets riddled with bullet holes. How many cars were used for even single murders last year, let alone mass murder?
2012-12-17 02:48:52 PM  
1 votes:
Given the number of wall posts by illogical anti-gun sissies calling for the death of the NRA's president, they were smart to take their page down until this blows over. I don't see a problem with it. Anti-gun sissies have worked themselves up into a mindless mob (just see any recent comments page on Fark) and there's no reasoning with them. Ditto for pro-gun congressmen not showing up on Meet the Press. The only goal was the try to bait them and make them look dumb and the congressmen aren't going to fall for it.
2012-12-17 02:46:29 PM  
1 votes:
Let's outlaw killing people!!
2012-12-17 02:46:13 PM  
1 votes:
It's funny how much overlap there is between people that want vastly more stringent gun ownership restrictions, and people that want more government control of everything.

And yet, the gun owners are the cowards.
2012-12-17 02:45:59 PM  
1 votes:
DNRTA but did the NRA take it down or did FB do it for them....


Like how google deletes bloggers based on their views......
2012-12-17 02:40:57 PM  
1 votes:
I haven't renewed my membership for a couple of years. Thanks for reminding me that they could use my support, they've supported We The People plenty in the past.
2012-12-17 02:36:29 PM  
1 votes:

dittybopper: It's a smart move, so as to remove the possibility of comments by idiots who may belong to the NRA (and every organization has idiots, the NRA is not immune to that).


I'm thinking it's the other way around. Assuing that their page allows open commenting, I could imagin that with a few hours after the shootings, they page likely got flooded with people directly blaming th NRA for making it too easy to get such weapons as assualt riles.

I've made no bones about this. I think it is a fine and reasonable right to own guns. Hunting, recreation, or self defense. But, there is no need for some person in the suburbs to own a milary grade assult rifle. (I guess those deer won't kill themselves after all).

There does ned to be better restrictions. There are already restrictions in place otherwise I could walk into WalMart and buy a RPG launcher, or an Uzi. All they really have to do is tighten things up a bit.
2012-12-17 02:36:11 PM  
1 votes:
This issue has nothing to do with guns, they are the red herring. The issue has everything to do with mental health and the inherent difficultly that lies in getting people help that they need whether they want it or not.

Mental health care needs to be readily available without going through hoops to anyone that needs it. As our population grows the number of people that our going to have episodes will also inevitably grow. By making mental health care available as needed you should prevent the vast majority of potential issues.

Some people are beyond the reach of weekly counseling and medication though. The medical standards have changed and it is now very difficult to get someone committed against their will, and even then you can usually only do so for three days. The standards that require an /immediate/ risk to self or others needs to changed to an indeterminable risk to self or others.
2012-12-17 02:34:39 PM  
1 votes:
Some interesting mass murder stats

assets.motherjones.com

assets.motherjones.com
2012-12-17 02:34:39 PM  
1 votes:

Abuse Liability: It's a great thing you're no scientist. The old adage "correlation does not equal causation" would fit pretty well with your statement


Unfortunately for that argument, it's not commutative.

Correlation != Causation.
However,
Causation = Correlation

So if you see a correlation, you can start looking for a causation. And if you find other correlations, you can suspect you're on the right track.

Or you can say that Logic is just a way of being wrong with confidence.
2012-12-17 02:32:36 PM  
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


the further this country goes down the drain the worse the consequences. people are very easily misled while getting them to do the right thing requires hard work and effort.

after Truman Capote's "In Cold Blood" was brought to the silver screen we saw more disturbing behavior along this line. after a couple in the mid 60's (?) claimed to have been abducted and probed by aliens more people came forward and claimed the same thing happened to them.

look back a few years. what were children and teens exposed to in the 20s, 30s and 40s, and how were most of them raised? sure there was technology in the day. there was education. there was discipline. there was some bad things as always like crime, alcoholism & drugs, abuse. for the most part young people were very naive and innocent. their worlds were very small. local newspaper, radio broadcasts, TV later if you could afford it. patriotic pride was big in the day. big changes: television, transportation especially the freedom the of automobile. but in the early part of the 1900's most people were poor but not hoodlums, criminals or recidivists.

each decade has had huge farking changes. Einstein said it best (1950s?): "Our technology has far surpassed our humanity". mankind waging war or being violent is nothing new, we are a horrible bloodthirsty greedy arrogant self involved species. and it seems like we are much like Hollywood talent: those gifted with good looks and the ability to act, sing etcetera seem to pay a high price for their gifts. mental illness, demos in the form of alcohol or drug addiction, poor life choices, blahblahblah. It seems like the more gifts mankind is given the higher the price we pay.

We abuse our computers, our selves. Garbage in, garbage out - you've heard it all before. If you surround yourself with negative thinking, music that focuses on death and darkness, leisure time activities that are a treasure trove of blood and guts, hunting killing shooting death destruction while the television programs being broadcast into your home are the type that exploit all sorts of people with personality disorders, mental illness, discipline problems, ignorance and/or stupidity, or a barrage of ultra violent horror and disturbing imagery, story and sound - well what do you think is going to become of that lab rat?

How the fark is a person who is knee-deep in that circumstance supposed to rise and shine and behave like a better quality individual?

Meanwhile take a look at how much of the population is unwanted and unplanned. For every birth I hear of that is a welcomed planned event, a blessing to a well educated employed seemingly sane set of parents I probably hear of 10 - 15 births that are no where near such happy circumstance. unwed teen drop-outs that are unemployed having their 2nd baby. drunks, drug addicts, blah blah blah all sorts of people who should be getting their personal shiat together are bringing little ones into the world while they can barely keep their head above water.

so there is no short cute answer. it's a huge POS society that is crapping out problems we all have to put up with, pay for and suffer for.

i realize it's so hip to shiat all over religion on the internet too. good for you. a lot of people bring their children up in a church because that's how their parents raised them. and they were taught right from wrong, charity, kindness, all sorts of things. of course these things can be taught outside a church and without a so-called holy text. obviously there is a whole lot of people that need to be shown how this is done. so enjoy crapping on people who believe while ignoring the good works they quietly do for their community. then look at yourself and ask what have you done for your neighbors in need lately.

meanwhile i'm sure a million dooshbags have all sorts of ultra violent goodies all wrapped up ready to put under the Christmas tree this year. they have not learned a damn thing. and more massacres will take place next year. hell, maybe next week. maybe tomorrow. as long as your kid is happy playing Blood Guts Kill Kill Kill III on Christmas Day hell that's all that matters.

keep burying your head in the internet, cell phones, NASCAR, television and every other distraction that comes along.

are you aware not every country is flooded with negative newscasts 24/7? USA USA USA. many countries / governments will not allow the filth trash sewage we have on TV to be broadcast in their countries. they don't wanted their citizens exposed to such horror.

---in the USA you need to learn and pass a test to drive a car, sell real estate, or to cut someones hair. meanwhile we let any and every moran bump uglies and make babies they cannot raise properly. many don't know how. many weren't raised right their self. many could care farking less.
as long as we the people who pay the tab and suffer the pain allow this to continue it will.

Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, Good Kwanza, Happy Holidays, Enjoy your Tet, May Your Festivus Be Fine Have a Pleasant New Year.
2012-12-17 02:31:13 PM  
1 votes:

EViLTeW: Luckily, before guns were so prevalent the US was a quiet and peaceful place where there were no crazies.


Another strawman riddled with bullet holes.
2012-12-17 02:30:43 PM  
1 votes:

Endive Wombat: TimonC346: And frankly, our current course allowed for what happened Friday. Anyone with instability who ever slips through a mental health system is allowed to buy weapons. That's a massive risk we are taking there.

The shooter did not buy the weapons, he stole them from his mother, he was only 20. Federal law already prohibits the purchase and carrying of handguns by those under 21 without adult supervision.


Good point--but why the fark does anyone need a high powered rifle, like the one he used to kill everyone in there with the exception of himself?
2012-12-17 02:29:26 PM  
1 votes:

DROxINxTHExWIND: Has it occured to any of the people talking about the need for increased gun control that guns are not biodegradable? Even if you ban new weapons, there are already many more on the streets. Also, criminals do not follow the law. That is a prerequisite to being a criminal. Why would they care about an assult weapons ban? For the record, the kids werenot killed by a legally-owned firearm. The murderer stole it from his dead mother.


That is the problem with a lot of legislation surrounding guns...the laws passed really only make it more difficult for legal, law abiding citizens and creates "gotcha" traps for law abiding citizens.

I mean look at the most basic facts surrounding this case:

20 year old man stole guns from his mother
Man shoots and kills mother
Man commits breaking and entering into a school
Man shoots and kills multiple other humans

All his actions were illegal. Theft is illegal, shooting someone for the sake of shooting them is illegal, breaking and entering is illegal, murder is illegal. Requiring a magazine to only hold 6 rounds instead of 12 would have done nothing to prevent death in a situation like this because this guys victims were basically unarmed women and children.
2012-12-17 02:29:12 PM  
1 votes:

TimonC346: Yeah--this is partially true. The ease of our access to guns, high powered and extremely efficient ones, is also part of that problem. More laws? Probably not. An all out ban on import or production of those guns would surely help. We can talk the whole "Meth causes problems, we should make it illegal so people stop doing it" is a malarkey argument--considering guns are neither mentally or physically addictive.


On another thread, I posted a reference to the "Frontline" ep on meth, and its comparison to Quaaludes. We can stop the problem if we make the object so rare only the truly dedicated could get their hands on it. The problem is, one of the chief arguments against gun control is "Well, dedicated criminals could still get their hands on guns." Well, dedicated addicts can still get their hands on Quaaludes. Does that mean we never should have confronted the problem?
2012-12-17 02:27:45 PM  
1 votes:

Ace25: Has it been pointed out that this is only their facebook page? Their website is still up and running. I didn't know it was a big deal or people cared about facebook pages going down. Never used the facebook thing myself and have no intention of ever doing so.


the only reason that their facebook page is down is that they are a bunch of cowards. they were unwilling to stand by their convictions or their member comments.
nor were they willing to face public criticism on facebook.

sounds like a bunch of teenage girls
2012-12-17 02:27:38 PM  
1 votes:

letrole: The interesting thing here is the way that guns and politics are being blamed for spree shootings.

Spree shootings are caused by a lack of personal restraint. In some cases, such as Charles Whitman, the fellow was suffering from madness with an organic cause ie a brain tumour. He left diaries and letters that showed jumbled and irrational thoughts.

But in nearly all cases, this lack of personal restraint comes from the breakdown of society.

1. If suicide is no longer a sin,
2. If public disobedience and defiance against authority are glorified,
3. If fame or celebrity is rewarded without merit,
4. If Right and Wrong are no longer absolute,
5. If erratic behaviour is no longer shameful,
6. If internal or self justification is held as a virtue,

-- then it will all continue along this path until society completely collapses, and a new order reforms from the ashes


So, basically, atheist gays are the problem here. Good to know.
2012-12-17 02:27:37 PM  
1 votes:

PreMortem: El_Frijole_Blanco: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

You need to go back 30 years when the mental health system got shut down

Conservative hero Ronald Reagan and his Omnibus bill. I'm just gonna copypasta this all day:

Court ordered mandatory psychological exam, then involuntary institutionalisation.

We are allowing too many whack jobs to roam freely.


Oh oh oh... new conspiracy for the derpers...

Sandy Hook was not a secret Obama plot to take our guns... Sandy Hook was a Secret Obama plot to re-institute government ordered involuntary institutionalization. So he can declare all his enemies insane and have FEMA round them up.
2012-12-17 02:26:29 PM  
1 votes:

Endive Wombat: The shooter did not buy the weapons, he stole them from his mother, he was only 20. Federal law already prohibits the purchase and carrying of handguns by those under 21 without adult supervision.


His mother should get the death penalty for not properly safing her weapons.

/wait? what? she already did? GOOD.
2012-12-17 02:25:51 PM  
1 votes:
A prime example of how to tell you're dealing with cowards. If they truly had the courage of their convictions they'd be sticking to their guns, this just shows that at some level they know they've been arguing for the indefensible this whole time.

Farking cowards.
2012-12-17 02:23:28 PM  
1 votes:

Endive Wombat: brnt00: Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy. But let's keep derping about gun control.

I've got an amazing insurance plan, which basically allows you to get whatever therapy you need without much in the way of restrictions. My last insurance plan offered 20 yearly visits to an approved, in-network psychologist. My previous one to that allowed $800 of coverage to an in-network provider per calender year - The Dr. billed out at like $120 per 50min session, so you don't get a lot of sessions.

Want to start assigning blame for incidents like this? Blame the insurance companies that are in bed with politicians. A few more incidents like this and hopefully a real conversation about access to mental health services in the US can actually happen.


It would be nicer if we could have a real conversation about it without a few more incidents like this, she said hopefully (but dubiously nonetheless).
2012-12-17 02:20:45 PM  
1 votes:
You can take my gun when you pry it from my cold, deactivated Facebook account.
2012-12-17 02:18:52 PM  
1 votes:

Vodka Zombie: Further proof that owning a gun doesn't make you decent or brave.


Dude, every place on the internet is not Fark. On websites dedicated to specific organizations, it's actually relatively appropriate to take down a user-generated section when it devolves into everyone pointlessly trolling each other.

berylman: Spare Me: Statistically, based on population, these types of incidents are actually fewer and very rare. The reason it "seems" more prominent is the instant news, media and internet blasting of such events.

I know what you are saying in terms of making the general public aware of these events yeah but looking at a 30 year retrospective of mass shootings of all kinds worldwide by individuals or very small groups I would gauge it to be tacking an even course or slightly accelerated.


Do you have that study with a methodology somewhere? Because actually verifying that would be a hell of a lot of legwork, given that if you go back as far as the '70s local crime not only wasn't national news, it didn't even get reported to a central national agency (just general statistics) so you'd have to call every tiny, tiny town in every country of the world and hope their police keep records that far back.

Admittedly, this means you should be automatically suspicious of the claim that there used to be more and it's dropped, as well. For the same reason.
2012-12-17 02:16:33 PM  
1 votes:

snocone: Fear drives the need for prevention of violent crimes.
Problem is that the time line defies the concept.
So politicians and charlitans sell the concept to the afeared masses. PROFIT!

There is no law against violence that will ever provide safety from violence.


So making murder illegal does nothing to change the rate of murder?

Silly.

Nothing will ever provide complete safety. Doesn't mean that a well crafted, intelligently enforced law can't increase the level of safety by making violence more difficult.
2012-12-17 02:15:36 PM  
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


No reason, just a blip. Overall, violent crime is going down and has been for decades. You're safer now then you have ever been.

/Of course, once the Northern permafrost melts you're screwed.
2012-12-17 02:15:22 PM  
1 votes:

TheOriginalEd: Jesus christ they knew their presence would be an issue. They knew that a shiatstorm was coming. They knew that ANYTHING they did or said would be met with hostility which is EXACTLY what is not needed in the wake of such a tragedy..


Stand up for what you believe in, unless there's a good chance that people will disagree with you. Sheesh these people can't even be principled right.
2012-12-17 02:11:05 PM  
1 votes:

shower_in_my_socks: "Crazy got a gun" is the reason most mass shootings happen. Preventing crazies from getting guns should be our top priority.


Easy enough. Looking at your Fark profile leads me to believe you should be locked away. Problem solved.
2012-12-17 02:09:55 PM  
1 votes:

Zeno-25: We don't have a gun control problem, we have a crazy control problem.


And yet politicians are going to start putting out legislation for vote that bans the shoulder thing that goes up and heat seeking bullets.
2012-12-17 02:06:27 PM  
1 votes:

shower_in_my_socks: sorhed: You know, the rest of the world sees America's violent movies and plays its violent video games, and some how manage to avoid monthly school massacres, despite having the exact same cultural influences.


And I seem to recall that Tarantino had to make Kill Bill BLOODIER for Japanese audiences because they're accustomed to more gruesome horror and violence in their films. And Japan has one of the lowest rates of intentional homicide in the world. Guns are illegal there, too, but I'm sure that's just a big farking coincidence.


what's that you said? people like sorhed who blame 'violent video games' and 'violent movies' don't know their ass from a hole in the ground? WHODATHUNKIT
2012-12-17 02:00:22 PM  
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: : waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.



A movie has never pulled the trigger on a gun.

Movies don't kill people, people kill people.

Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than Die Hard.
2012-12-17 01:59:40 PM  
1 votes:

dittybopper: Flakeloaf: El_Frijole_Blanco: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

You need to go back 30 years when the mental health system got shut down

Before it was, was one's access to it dependent on the ability to pay?

/Yup. Went there.

Nope. If you were insane, and you needed to be locked up because you were a danger to yourself or others, you were locked up.


I wish I lived in your reality, sadly the real world isn't so black and white.
2012-12-17 01:56:16 PM  
1 votes:

brnt00: Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy. But let's keep derping about gun control.


Yeah--this is partially true. The ease of our access to guns, high powered and extremely efficient ones, is also part of that problem. More laws? Probably not. An all out ban on import or production of those guns would surely help. We can talk the whole "Meth causes problems, we should make it illegal so people stop doing it" is a malarkey argument--considering guns are neither mentally or physically addictive.

And frankly, our current course allowed for what happened Friday. Anyone with instability who ever slips through a mental health system is allowed to buy weapons. That's a massive risk we are taking there.
2012-12-17 01:55:35 PM  
1 votes:
Well, duh! They don't want this heat. So run silent, run deep.
2012-12-17 01:55:08 PM  
1 votes:
.....

img255.imageshack.us
2012-12-17 01:53:38 PM  
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Nothing, by the numbers senseless slaughters are at an all time low, but hey don't let that stop your derp.
2012-12-17 01:50:31 PM  
1 votes:
The NRA must be afraid. If only they had some sort of projectile launching device that would protect them.
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-17 01:49:47 PM  
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Nothing. We keep having preventable slaughters because guns aren't "well regulated" as the constitution demands.
2012-12-17 01:47:18 PM  
1 votes:

Flakeloaf: El_Frijole_Blanco: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

You need to go back 30 years when the mental health system got shut down

Before it was, was one's access to it dependent on the ability to pay?

/Yup. Went there.


Nope. If you were insane, and you needed to be locked up because you were a danger to yourself or others, you were locked up.
2012-12-17 01:36:05 PM  
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.


OK, there, Tipper.
2012-12-17 01:34:39 PM  
1 votes:
i thought gun ownership meant never having to run away from potential conflict
2012-12-17 01:27:04 PM  
1 votes:
Not so brave if they can't use a gun.
2012-12-17 12:29:31 PM  
1 votes:

vudutek: wow, 10lbofbatshiat got a lot of bites.
8.5/10


He knows if throws that BS in enough threads someone will bite
2012-12-17 12:14:06 PM  
1 votes:

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Reality shows
2012-12-17 12:05:29 PM  
1 votes:

RexTalionis: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

Apparently, guns don't kill people, movies kill people.


No, it's the violent video games
 
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