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(ABC)   "The NRA couldn't be reached for comment regarding whether the deactivation of its facebook page was connected to Friday's mass shooting"   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 451
    More: Obvious, NRA, school shootings, semi-automatic rifle, gun laws, assault weapons  
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7704 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Dec 2012 at 1:43 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



451 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-12-17 11:57:23 AM
waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?
 
2012-12-17 12:03:29 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Apparently, guns don't kill people, movies kill people.
 
2012-12-17 12:05:29 PM

RexTalionis: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

Apparently, guns don't kill people, movies kill people.


No, it's the violent video games
 
2012-12-17 12:07:37 PM
Further proof that owning a gun doesn't make you decent or brave.
 
2012-12-17 12:10:58 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


So their just as chicken as right wing Senators. How surprising
 
2012-12-17 12:13:16 PM

Vodka Zombie: Further proof that owning a gun doesn't make you decent or brave.

 
2012-12-17 12:14:06 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Reality shows
 
2012-12-17 12:16:52 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


You need to go back 30 years when the mental health system got shut down
 
2012-12-17 12:18:34 PM
wow, 10lbofbatshiat got a lot of bites.
8.5/10
 
2012-12-17 12:24:44 PM

El_Frijole_Blanco: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

You need to go back 30 years when the mental health system got shut down


Conservative hero Ronald Reagan and his Omnibus bill. I'm just gonna copypasta this all day:

Court ordered mandatory psychological exam, then involuntary institutionalisation.

We are allowing too many whack jobs to roam freely.
 
2012-12-17 12:26:46 PM

vudutek: wow, 10lbofbatshiat got a lot of bites.
8.5/10


I dunno if you can count jokes as bites.
 
2012-12-17 12:29:31 PM

vudutek: wow, 10lbofbatshiat got a lot of bites.
8.5/10


He knows if throws that BS in enough threads someone will bite
 
2012-12-17 12:35:29 PM
Hollywood has a Facebook page?

Is Hollywood an entity, like Wall Street?

www.hakes.com
 
2012-12-17 01:27:04 PM
Not so brave if they can't use a gun.
 
2012-12-17 01:34:39 PM
i thought gun ownership meant never having to run away from potential conflict
 
2012-12-17 01:36:00 PM
Like
 
2012-12-17 01:36:05 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.


OK, there, Tipper.
 
2012-12-17 01:45:19 PM

El_Frijole_Blanco: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

You need to go back 30 years when the mental health system got shut down


Before it was, was one's access to it dependent on the ability to pay?

/Yup. Went there.
 
2012-12-17 01:46:22 PM
It's a smart move, so as to remove the possibility of comments by idiots who may belong to the NRA (and every organization has idiots, the NRA is not immune to that).
 
2012-12-17 01:47:18 PM

Flakeloaf: El_Frijole_Blanco: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

You need to go back 30 years when the mental health system got shut down

Before it was, was one's access to it dependent on the ability to pay?

/Yup. Went there.


Nope. If you were insane, and you needed to be locked up because you were a danger to yourself or others, you were locked up.
 
2012-12-17 01:48:43 PM
Wow...2 auto-play articles in a row. Please stop. Just stop it.
 
2012-12-17 01:48:46 PM
Statistically, based on population, these types of incidents are actually fewer and very rare. The reason it "seems" more prominent is the instant news, media and internet blasting of such events.
 
2012-12-17 01:49:32 PM
Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy. But let's keep derping about gun control.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-17 01:49:47 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Nothing. We keep having preventable slaughters because guns aren't "well regulated" as the constitution demands.
 
2012-12-17 01:50:26 PM
Blaming the NRA for this makes you look stupid.

Just a tip.
 
2012-12-17 01:50:31 PM
The NRA must be afraid. If only they had some sort of projectile launching device that would protect them.
 
2012-12-17 01:51:28 PM

PreMortem: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

Reality shows


Gay marriage abortions.
 
2012-12-17 01:51:48 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Agendas are lagging.

The problem seems to be a general lack of support of "what is good for you" as defined by your keepers.
 
2012-12-17 01:52:09 PM

PreMortem: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

Reality shows


24/7 media coverage.
 
2012-12-17 01:52:38 PM

The Muthaship: Blaming the NRA for this makes you look stupid.

Just a tip.


Stupid is as Stupid does.

/love that
 
2012-12-17 01:52:56 PM
Acting like the guilty enablers of child murder that they are.

No?

Then why act guilty?
 
2012-12-17 01:53:38 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Nothing, by the numbers senseless slaughters are at an all time low, but hey don't let that stop your derp.
 
2012-12-17 01:54:50 PM
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2012-12-17 01:54:54 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Well, the federal law that disarms everyone inside government schools. There's that.
 
2012-12-17 01:55:08 PM
.....

img255.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-17 01:55:26 PM
Cowards.
 
2012-12-17 01:55:34 PM

dittybopper: Flakeloaf: El_Frijole_Blanco: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

You need to go back 30 years when the mental health system got shut down

Before it was, was one's access to it dependent on the ability to pay?

/Yup. Went there.

Nope. If you were insane, and you needed to be locked up because you were a danger to yourself or others, you were locked up.


Except as snocone points out, this only works if people have faith in the decider. If the insane have the right to refuse treatment and the people oppose the right of the state to lock away the innocent for being insane then deinstitutionalization happens and now these people are outside.

So now the question becomes: Would this guy's mother have had her kid committed if the opportunity had existed, or did her crazy cone just have a different flavoured swirl in it?
 
2012-12-17 01:55:35 PM
Well, duh! They don't want this heat. So run silent, run deep.
 
2012-12-17 01:56:16 PM

brnt00: Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy. But let's keep derping about gun control.


Yeah--this is partially true. The ease of our access to guns, high powered and extremely efficient ones, is also part of that problem. More laws? Probably not. An all out ban on import or production of those guns would surely help. We can talk the whole "Meth causes problems, we should make it illegal so people stop doing it" is a malarkey argument--considering guns are neither mentally or physically addictive.

And frankly, our current course allowed for what happened Friday. Anyone with instability who ever slips through a mental health system is allowed to buy weapons. That's a massive risk we are taking there.
 
2012-12-17 01:56:26 PM

dittybopper: Flakeloaf: El_Frijole_Blanco: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

You need to go back 30 years when the mental health system got shut down

Before it was, was one's access to it dependent on the ability to pay?

/Yup. Went there.

Nope. If you were insane, and you needed to be locked up because you were a danger to yourself or others, you were locked up.


Symptoms of mental health issues then were the marijuana arrests of today. The slightest 'infractions' would put you in front of a court. Society doesn't even seem to notice wackjobs these days until they shoot up a school... and even then it isn't the wackjob's fault. *points fingers* It was somebody or something else's fault.

Society needs to take off the kid gloves and clean up some of the trash.
 
2012-12-17 01:56:36 PM

The Muthaship: Blaming the NRA for this makes you look stupid.

Just a tip.


Yep and blaming the gun is like blaming a fork for making you fat.
 
2012-12-17 01:58:12 PM

p4p3rm4t3: .....

[img255.imageshack.us image 243x182]


Jesus.

Where the hell do you people find this stuff? And did they really make shows like that in the '70s?

/clicked you for Funny, BTW
 
2012-12-17 01:58:13 PM

The Muthaship: Blaming the NRA for this makes you look stupid.



Trying to pretend the NRA has any interest in American citizens or their rights makes you look stupid.
 
2012-12-17 01:58:15 PM
It takes a long time to think about what to say about bullet riddled children. I have no idea what I'd say, but I'm not the anti-Christ.
 
2012-12-17 01:58:36 PM

p4p3rm4t3: .....

[img255.imageshack.us image 243x182]


i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-17 01:59:14 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Homosexual atheist democrat pro-abortion single mother fetuses.
 
2012-12-17 01:59:40 PM

dittybopper: Flakeloaf: El_Frijole_Blanco: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

You need to go back 30 years when the mental health system got shut down

Before it was, was one's access to it dependent on the ability to pay?

/Yup. Went there.

Nope. If you were insane, and you needed to be locked up because you were a danger to yourself or others, you were locked up.


I wish I lived in your reality, sadly the real world isn't so black and white.
 
2012-12-17 01:59:49 PM

lenfromak: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

Well, the federal law that disarms everyone inside government schools. There's that.


If these toddlers had been allowed to carry guns like the real, free Americans, they wouldn't have been shot.

A guy who tried this kind of shooting in a Philadelphia public school wouldn't make it past the second set of double doors.
 
2012-12-17 01:59:54 PM

brnt00: Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy. But let's keep derping about gun control.


You're never going to get all the guns away from the people who have no business having the power to kill at a distance, and you're never going to identify all the violently crazy early enough to keep them from acting on it. SO, given that it is relatively easy to get a gun and given that it is relatively had to get someone institutionalized for violent insanity (until they actually kill someone) perhaps it's not a matter off either well funded national healthcare (including comprehensive mental healthcare) and Removing the stigma associated with using mental healthcare services, OR some common sense gun control, but rather both? Particularly if the latter is informed by the former?

Characterizing what's being seriously discussed regarding gun control right now as Derpery across the board is failing to consider that a lot of the suggestions out there are reasonable by any sense, and itself verges on Derp.

Can anyone really say now that the Gun Show loophole should remain open?
 
2012-12-17 02:00:00 PM

Dead for Tax Reasons: RexTalionis: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

Apparently, guns don't kill people, movies kill people.

No, it's the violent video games


images3.wikia.nocookie.net

"Hay guize, what's going on in this thread?"
 
2012-12-17 02:00:16 PM

RexTalionis: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

Apparently, guns don't kill people, movies kill people.


the answer to his question is MEDIA COVERAGE

the way the media obsesses and sensationalizes these tragedies is creating more of them Link
 
2012-12-17 02:00:22 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: : waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.



A movie has never pulled the trigger on a gun.

Movies don't kill people, people kill people.

Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than Die Hard.
 
2012-12-17 02:00:24 PM

brnt00: Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy. But let's keep derping about gun control.


I've got an amazing insurance plan, which basically allows you to get whatever therapy you need without much in the way of restrictions. My last insurance plan offered 20 yearly visits to an approved, in-network psychologist. My previous one to that allowed $800 of coverage to an in-network provider per calender year - The Dr. billed out at like $120 per 50min session, so you don't get a lot of sessions.

Want to start assigning blame for incidents like this? Blame the insurance companies that are in bed with politicians. A few more incidents like this and hopefully a real conversation about access to mental health services in the US can actually happen.
 
2012-12-17 02:00:50 PM

megarian: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

Homosexual atheist democrat pro-abortion single mother fetuses.


And Muslims; and Mexicans.
 
2012-12-17 02:01:09 PM
I'm like totally un-friending them.
 
2012-12-17 02:01:18 PM
You know, the rest of the world sees America's violent movies and plays its violent video games, and some how manage to avoid monthly school massacres, despite having the exact same cultural influences.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-17 02:01:31 PM

brnt00: Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy. But let's keep derping about gun control.


Because it would cost billions of dollars, the gun nuts are the same people who think national healthcare is a Marxist plot, and they are the very people we would have to lock up, so it amounts to the same thing.
 
2012-12-17 02:02:29 PM

CygnusDarius: megarian: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

Homosexual atheist democrat pro-abortion single mother fetuses.

And Muslims; and Mexicans.


....That might be the best band name evar.

I guess it's time to listen to some metal. Hope it doesn't make me kill anyone.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-17 02:02:40 PM

thomps: i thought gun ownership meant never having to run away from potential conflict


No, it means that you can go looking for conflict because you are a big man when you have a gun.
 
2012-12-17 02:02:47 PM
"Crazy got a gun" is the reason most mass shootings happen. Preventing crazies from getting guns should be our top priority.
 
2012-12-17 02:02:52 PM

TimonC346: And frankly, our current course allowed for what happened Friday. Anyone with instability who ever slips through a mental health system is allowed to buy weapons. That's a massive risk we are taking there.


The shooter did not buy the weapons, he stole them from his mother, he was only 20. Federal law already prohibits the purchase and carrying of handguns by those under 21 without adult supervision.
 
2012-12-17 02:03:01 PM

Spare Me: The Muthaship: Blaming the NRA for this makes you look stupid.

Just a tip.

Yep and blaming the gun is like blaming a fork for making you fat.


And kindergarteners are soooo yummy.
 
2012-12-17 02:03:05 PM

dittybopper: It's a smart move, so as to remove the possibility of comments by idiots who may belong to the NRA (and every organization has idiots, the NRA is not immune to that).


Probably this. I'm sure we will see a full-throated defense of the current status quo on gun control once all of the emotions calm down a bit.

After all, reinstating the AWB wouldn't have prevented this tragedy, or any of the recent other ones. Most of these massacres are comitted with semi-auto handguns, and good luck getting a blanket ban on any semi-autos past the Supreme Court anytime in the next couple decades.

A fundamental change in the way our society approaches mental illness is the only thing that could have prevented this. We need professionals in schools who can evaluate at-risk individuals, maybe create a blacklist of people with serious illnesses which would be integrated into the background check process. It would have to be pretty invasive, though, as even just putting those who have been involuntarily comitted on such a list wouldn't have stopped most of these tragedies.

We don't have a gun control problem, we have a crazy control problem.
 
2012-12-17 02:04:38 PM

sorhed: You know, the rest of the world sees America's violent movies and plays its violent video games, and some how manage to avoid monthly school massacres, despite having the exact same cultural influences.



And I seem to recall that Tarantino had to make Kill Bill BLOODIER for Japanese audiences because they're accustomed to more gruesome horror and violence in their films. And Japan has one of the lowest rates of intentional homicide in the world. Guns are illegal there, too, but I'm sure that's just a big farking coincidence.
 
2012-12-17 02:04:42 PM

TypoFlyspray: brnt00: Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy. But let's keep derping about gun control.

You're never going to get all the guns away from the people who have no business having the power to kill at a distance, and you're never going to identify all the violently crazy early enough to keep them from acting on it. SO, given that it is relatively easy to get a gun and given that it is relatively had to get someone institutionalized for violent insanity (until they actually kill someone) perhaps it's not a matter off either well funded national healthcare (including comprehensive mental healthcare) and Removing the stigma associated with using mental healthcare services, OR some common sense gun control, but rather both? Particularly if the latter is informed by the former?

Characterizing what's being seriously discussed regarding gun control right now as Derpery across the board is failing to consider that a lot of the suggestions out there are reasonable by any sense, and itself verges on Derp.



Nonense. Every bad thing that happens is caused exclusively by a single factor that just happens to irritate the person who points out that factor for all to see.
 
2012-12-17 02:05:40 PM
Listen, let the libtards biatch and moan about their precious "safety," but for me, I've got a dick even longer than the 32-round magazine on my dual-wielded TEC-9s.

Unfortunately, what I do not have is a third hand. So when I've fired all 64 rounds (hollow-points, natch), and the terrorist/burglars/deer is still standing there, what am I supposed to do, you panty-wetting clowns?

No, seriously, if you have any ideas, I'd love to hear them. I worry about this a lot. Normally I'd ask the NRA, but they're not answering the phone for some reason.
 
2012-12-17 02:05:45 PM

Clutch2013: p4p3rm4t3: .....

[img255.imageshack.us image 243x182]

Jesus.

Where the hell do you people find this stuff? And did they really make shows like that in the '70s?

/clicked you for Funny, BTW


Oh, we had worse stuff than that on TV back then.

/creepy Clutch Cargo mouths ftw
 
2012-12-17 02:06:11 PM
I think I know why he did it, but there's no way to ever really know unless he left a note.
 
2012-12-17 02:06:27 PM

shower_in_my_socks: sorhed: You know, the rest of the world sees America's violent movies and plays its violent video games, and some how manage to avoid monthly school massacres, despite having the exact same cultural influences.


And I seem to recall that Tarantino had to make Kill Bill BLOODIER for Japanese audiences because they're accustomed to more gruesome horror and violence in their films. And Japan has one of the lowest rates of intentional homicide in the world. Guns are illegal there, too, but I'm sure that's just a big farking coincidence.


what's that you said? people like sorhed who blame 'violent video games' and 'violent movies' don't know their ass from a hole in the ground? WHODATHUNKIT
 
2012-12-17 02:06:30 PM
Fear drives the need for prevention of violent crimes.
Problem is that the time line defies the concept.
So politicians and charlitans sell the concept to the afeared masses. PROFIT!

There is no law against violence that will ever provide safety from violence.
 
2012-12-17 02:06:44 PM
i595.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-17 02:07:55 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Internet rage?
 
2012-12-17 02:08:06 PM

sorhed: You know, the rest of the world sees America's violent movies and plays its violent video games, and some how manage to avoid monthly school massacres, despite having the exact same cultural influences.


The 20th century and its nation-by-nation toll of overall gun violence would like a word with you.

Sorry, you don't get to discount soldiers killing civilians if you're going to compare my culture with the rest of the world.
 
2012-12-17 02:08:10 PM

Doctor Funkenstein:


This.... Oh my..... This.
 
2012-12-17 02:08:25 PM

The Muthaship: Blaming the NRA for this makes you look stupid.

Just a tip.


I honestly do not know why they would deactivate it - have to wonder if Facebook pulled another stupid stunt and deactivated it... the guns were all legally bought and owned by an adult person. That adult is being reported as responsible, caring, giving and an avid target shooter. The guns were STOLEN and the owner killed by her son. No "law" is going to prevent this.

#1 reason for these "sprees" is for the attention and rise to stardom... far past that of ANY star of the big screen, music or television gets in a year. Coverage on every channel, sometimes even taking scheduled programs off to report more on it (and nothing new, just the same stuff, over and over), the nutbag's photos plastered on the screen, time and time again... instant fame for a year, programs and documentaries made for 30 years and a whacko's name remembered for a long, long time...
 
2012-12-17 02:08:29 PM

shower_in_my_socks: "Crazy got a gun" is the reason most mass shootings happen. Preventing crazies from getting guns should be our top priority.


Communist!
 
2012-12-17 02:09:17 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Easy - Dr. Spock
 
2012-12-17 02:09:38 PM

Endive Wombat: Want to start assigning blame for incidents like this? Blame the insurance companies that are in bed with politicians. A few more incidents like this and hopefully a real conversation about access to mental health services in the US can actually happen.


I have really great insurance and yet still can not afford the ~$300-400 a month it would cost me to get therapy to deal with my complex PTSD. So, I've just bought psychological books regarding the treatment of PTSD and have tried to do it on my own. It's not really working too well, but at least I can get out of bed every morning. I also do yoga and other things to simply try and calm down. My state drastically cut mental health services 4 years ago so unless I was a danger to myself or others they cannot assist.

I'm in no danger to go off and kill anyone, or myself; but goddammit. How does anyone expect people to get the help they need?
 
2012-12-17 02:09:55 PM

Zeno-25: We don't have a gun control problem, we have a crazy control problem.


And yet politicians are going to start putting out legislation for vote that bans the shoulder thing that goes up and heat seeking bullets.
 
2012-12-17 02:09:58 PM

megarian: Doctor Funkenstein:

This.... Oh my..... This.


Heh - and it's oddly on topic, too.
 
2012-12-17 02:10:39 PM
Jesus christ they knew their presence would be an issue. They knew that a shiatstorm was coming. They knew that ANYTHING they did or said would be met with hostility which is EXACTLY what is not needed in the wake of such a tragedy.

So they chose to avoid the fight. Sometimes the better part of valor is knowing when to step down. All of you calling them cowards and standing on your soap boxes beating your chests, YOURE the real swine here.

Kudos to the NRA for a moment of silence and trying not to feed the fire.
 
2012-12-17 02:10:42 PM
Has it occured to any of the people talking about the need for increased gun control that guns are not biodegradable? Even if you ban new weapons, there are already many more on the streets. Also, criminals do not follow the law. That is a prerequisite to being a criminal. Why would they care about an assult weapons ban? For the record, the kids werenot killed by a legally-owned firearm. The murderer stole it from his dead mother.
 
2012-12-17 02:11:03 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


What do you mean? Weren't you around for the school shootings back in the 1990s? Or the 1980's? Or the 1970s?

The only difference now is that because of saturated media coverage due to 24 hour news channels and the Internet, we hear more about it. What might have been a regional news story, or perhaps a short-lived national one, now occupies us for days, weeks, even months.
 
2012-12-17 02:11:05 PM

shower_in_my_socks: "Crazy got a gun" is the reason most mass shootings happen. Preventing crazies from getting guns should be our top priority.


Easy enough. Looking at your Fark profile leads me to believe you should be locked away. Problem solved.
 
2012-12-17 02:11:07 PM

shower_in_my_socks: sorhed: You know, the rest of the world sees America's violent movies and plays its violent video games, and some how manage to avoid monthly school massacres, despite having the exact same cultural influences.


And I seem to recall that Tarantino had to make Kill Bill BLOODIER for Japanese audiences because they're accustomed to more gruesome horror and violence in their films. And Japan has one of the lowest rates of intentional homicide in the world. Guns are illegal there, too, but I'm sure that's just a big farking coincidence.


Another 15,000 Newtown massacres, and we'll have nearly equaled the civilians they killed after the Doolittle raids.

Of course, they thought that was the RIGHT thing to do...so that means it doesn't count, or something.

Or is there some statute of limitations you're using on national collective guilt?
 
2012-12-17 02:11:27 PM

Spare Me: Statistically, based on population, these types of incidents are actually fewer and very rare. The reason it "seems" more prominent is the instant news, media and internet blasting of such events.


I know what you are saying in terms of making the general public aware of these events yeah but looking at a 30 year retrospective of mass shootings of all kinds worldwide by individuals or very small groups I would gauge it to be tacking an even course or slightly accelerated.
 
2012-12-17 02:12:28 PM

Zeno-25: After all, reinstating the AWB wouldn't have prevented this tragedy, or any of the recent other ones. Most of these massacres are comitted with semi-auto handguns, and good luck getting a blanket ban on any semi-autos past the Supreme Court anytime in the next couple decades. A fundamental change in the way our society approaches mental illness is the only thing that could have prevented this.



Firstly, the ME in Newtown said most or all of the victims were shot with the long rifle, although I agree with you in most OTHER cases it's the semi-auto handguns that are the gun of choice, because nothing packs that much fire power into such an easily-concealable weapon.

While I agree that we need better mental healthcare in this country (which will require evil SOCIALISM!!!), there are a number of other things that would have prevented this shooting from happening:

1. A background check on the shooter's mom when she bought the guns that extended to everyone in her household. Her kid had a long history of issues and had been booted from public school for being a nutcase. That house should not have had guns in it.
2. Better education about keeping firearms locked-up.
3. Not treating guns as a "hobby," which the shooter's mom reportedly did. They are mass-killing, military weapons. They deserve a hell of a lot more respect than comparing them to quilting and stamp collecting.

The shooter was turned away by a gun store earlier this week when he was told there would be a background check and a waiting period. So that law WORKED and it delayed the attack. Who knows how many other would-be shooters out there have been delayed indefinitely by similar laws. If his mom hadn't been irresponsibly storing guns in a home where she knew there was a person with lifelong behavioral issues, we wouldn't be having this conversation today.
 
2012-12-17 02:12:38 PM
pinkie.ponychan.net
 
2012-12-17 02:13:45 PM
Gotta say, the NRA is doing the only smart thing they can right now. Anything that gets posted to their FB page in favor of guns is going to be taken as coming from them. Any moderation they try to do to pro or anti gun posts is going to piss people off. There is nothing they can say that 1) will not appear pathologically self serving, 2) will bring anyone over to their way of thinking that isn't there already (and if they mishandled it they could lose supporters), and 3) is consistent with their stated goal of keeping firearms as unregulated as possible. Not right now. Maybe in a couple of months. I can't say as I approve of the NRA, and I certainly think that their consistent message the the second amendment means no regulations of any kind on firearms is wrong and dangerous, but they're doing the right thing here by going silent for a while.

Further, what can they fight? There's nothing out there that has a chance of passage through congress, not with a Republican majority in the House that knows that the NRA will fund their primary challengers if they waver an iota, whether or not the NRA says anything. Even if something were to come to the floor that looks like it might pass, there will be a couple of off the record calls to folks who know the congressmen in question, and they will be reminded who paid to get them where they are.

Course, when the character assassination of Joe Scarborough beings (which it surely will anon), you'll be able, if you're very good at this sort of thing, to follow the funding right back to the NRA.
 
2012-12-17 02:15:22 PM

TheOriginalEd: Jesus christ they knew their presence would be an issue. They knew that a shiatstorm was coming. They knew that ANYTHING they did or said would be met with hostility which is EXACTLY what is not needed in the wake of such a tragedy..


Stand up for what you believe in, unless there's a good chance that people will disagree with you. Sheesh these people can't even be principled right.
 
2012-12-17 02:15:36 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


No reason, just a blip. Overall, violent crime is going down and has been for decades. You're safer now then you have ever been.

/Of course, once the Northern permafrost melts you're screwed.
 
2012-12-17 02:16:09 PM

Doctor Funkenstein: [i595.photobucket.com image 500x368]


images2.wikia.nocookie.net

Approves.

traylor: [pinkie.ponychan.net image 480x304]


Jesus, I'm dying over here.
 
2012-12-17 02:16:33 PM

snocone: Fear drives the need for prevention of violent crimes.
Problem is that the time line defies the concept.
So politicians and charlitans sell the concept to the afeared masses. PROFIT!

There is no law against violence that will ever provide safety from violence.


So making murder illegal does nothing to change the rate of murder?

Silly.

Nothing will ever provide complete safety. Doesn't mean that a well crafted, intelligently enforced law can't increase the level of safety by making violence more difficult.
 
2012-12-17 02:17:37 PM

Kazan: the answer to his question is MEDIA COVERAGE
the way the media obsesses and sensationalizes these tragedies is creating more of them Link


THE MEDIA is a business. They sensationalize these things because it's news, and people want to hear about it. Blaming THE MEDIA for shiat like this is just like blaming video games. They're running a business, just like video game companies are making money making violent video games. And what are we--mindless consumers of things that warp our brains so much that we can't even be trusted to not go out and shoot a bunch of people? That's pretty feeble.
 
2012-12-17 02:18:11 PM
traylor

Challenge accepted!

i595.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-17 02:18:18 PM

TheOriginalEd: Jesus christ they knew their presence would be an issue. They knew that a shiatstorm was coming. They knew that ANYTHING they did or said would be met with hostility which is EXACTLY what is not needed in the wake of such a tragedy.

So they chose to avoid the fight. Sometimes the better part of valor is knowing when to step down. All of you calling them cowards and standing on your soap boxes beating your chests, YOURE the real swine here.

Kudos to the NRA for a moment of silence and trying not to feed the fire.


Ever so this. Well said.
 
2012-12-17 02:18:52 PM

Vodka Zombie: Further proof that owning a gun doesn't make you decent or brave.


Dude, every place on the internet is not Fark. On websites dedicated to specific organizations, it's actually relatively appropriate to take down a user-generated section when it devolves into everyone pointlessly trolling each other.

berylman: Spare Me: Statistically, based on population, these types of incidents are actually fewer and very rare. The reason it "seems" more prominent is the instant news, media and internet blasting of such events.

I know what you are saying in terms of making the general public aware of these events yeah but looking at a 30 year retrospective of mass shootings of all kinds worldwide by individuals or very small groups I would gauge it to be tacking an even course or slightly accelerated.


Do you have that study with a methodology somewhere? Because actually verifying that would be a hell of a lot of legwork, given that if you go back as far as the '70s local crime not only wasn't national news, it didn't even get reported to a central national agency (just general statistics) so you'd have to call every tiny, tiny town in every country of the world and hope their police keep records that far back.

Admittedly, this means you should be automatically suspicious of the claim that there used to be more and it's dropped, as well. For the same reason.
 
2012-12-17 02:19:43 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


America is the only place on Earth with violent movies and video games.
 
2012-12-17 02:20:45 PM
You can take my gun when you pry it from my cold, deactivated Facebook account.
 
2012-12-17 02:21:26 PM

TheOriginalEd: Jesus christ they knew their presence would be an issue. They knew that a shiatstorm was coming. They knew that ANYTHING they did or said would be met with hostility which is EXACTLY what is not needed in the wake of such a tragedy.

So they chose to avoid the fight. Sometimes the better part of valor is knowing when to step down. All of you calling them cowards and standing on your soap boxes beating your chests, YOURE the real swine here.

Kudos to the NRA for a moment of silence and trying not to feed the fire.


This is Fark, so you stop being reasonable right now. Reason is not an American value.
 
2012-12-17 02:21:31 PM
The interesting thing here is the way that guns and politics are being blamed for spree shootings.

Spree shootings are caused by a lack of personal restraint. In some cases, such as Charles Whitman, the fellow was suffering from madness with an organic cause ie a brain tumour. He left diaries and letters that showed jumbled and irrational thoughts.

But in nearly all cases, this lack of personal restraint comes from the breakdown of society.

1. If suicide is no longer a sin,
2. If public disobedience and defiance against authority are glorified,
3. If fame or celebrity is rewarded without merit,
4. If Right and Wrong are no longer absolute,
5. If erratic behaviour is no longer shameful,
6. If internal or self justification is held as a virtue,

-- then it will all continue along this path until society completely collapses, and a new order reforms from the ashes
 
2012-12-17 02:23:08 PM
Has it been pointed out that this is only their facebook page? Their website is still up and running. I didn't know it was a big deal or people cared about facebook pages going down. Never used the facebook thing myself and have no intention of ever doing so.
 
2012-12-17 02:23:28 PM

Endive Wombat: brnt00: Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy. But let's keep derping about gun control.

I've got an amazing insurance plan, which basically allows you to get whatever therapy you need without much in the way of restrictions. My last insurance plan offered 20 yearly visits to an approved, in-network psychologist. My previous one to that allowed $800 of coverage to an in-network provider per calender year - The Dr. billed out at like $120 per 50min session, so you don't get a lot of sessions.

Want to start assigning blame for incidents like this? Blame the insurance companies that are in bed with politicians. A few more incidents like this and hopefully a real conversation about access to mental health services in the US can actually happen.


It would be nicer if we could have a real conversation about it without a few more incidents like this, she said hopefully (but dubiously nonetheless).
 
2012-12-17 02:23:32 PM

letrole: The interesting thing here is the way that guns and politics are being blamed for spree shootings.

Spree shootings are caused by a lack of personal restraint. In some cases, such as Charles Whitman, the fellow was suffering from madness with an organic cause ie a brain tumour. He left diaries and letters that showed jumbled and irrational thoughts.

But in nearly all cases, this lack of personal restraint comes from the breakdown of society.

1. If suicide is no longer a sin,
2. If public disobedience and defiance against authority are glorified,
3. If fame or celebrity is rewarded without merit,
4. If Right and Wrong are no longer absolute,
5. If erratic behaviour is no longer shameful,
6. If internal or self justification is held as a virtue,

-- then it will all continue along this path until society completely collapses, and a new order reforms from the ashes


Well hey, once you accept the idea of an omnipotent, invisible creator creature that revealed itself in a book to some guys in the desert a while back and hasn't said or done anything since, all that seems pretty sensible by comparison.
 
2012-12-17 02:24:22 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: Has it occured to any of the people talking about the need for increased gun control that guns are not biodegradable? Even if you ban new weapons, there are already many more on the streets. Also, criminals do not follow the law. That is a prerequisite to being a criminal. Why would they care about an assult weapons ban? For the record, the kids werenot killed by a legally-owned firearm. The murderer stole it from his dead mother.


If you tag and title guns, and license gun owners, then make carrying an unlicensed gun or a gun without having a gun license a crime that carries significant jailtime and forfeiture of the weapon, you 1) Increase the risk level of carrying an unlicensed gun to the degree that smart criminals will carry them far less often, 2) Provide an opportunity for law enforcement to inject themselves into the situation before anyone gets shot, 3) Gradually decrease the number of illegal guns in circulation, and 4) Drive the price of those that remain on the black market up beyond the means of most criminals.

Further, if your gun is stolen, you would report it, because if you didn't you would bear some responsibility if it were used. People would be more likely to keep their guns in a secure storage and less likely to share the combination to that storage with their violently crazy kid.

If you want to let the perfect be the enemy of the better, you go ahead, but I'm going to try to make some progress here.
 
2012-12-17 02:25:51 PM
A prime example of how to tell you're dealing with cowards. If they truly had the courage of their convictions they'd be sticking to their guns, this just shows that at some level they know they've been arguing for the indefensible this whole time.

Farking cowards.
 
2012-12-17 02:25:55 PM

shower_in_my_socks: sorhed: You know, the rest of the world sees America's violent movies and plays its violent video games, and some how manage to avoid monthly school massacres, despite having the exact same cultural influences.


And I seem to recall that Tarantino had to make Kill Bill BLOODIER for Japanese audiences because they're accustomed to more gruesome horror and violence in their films. And Japan has one of the lowest rates of intentional homicide in the world. Guns are illegal there, too, but I'm sure that's just a big farking coincidence.


It's a great thing you're no scientist. The old adage "correlation does not equal causation" would fit pretty well with your statement
 
2012-12-17 02:26:24 PM

brnt00: Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy.


mental health care isn't magic. Depending on the condition the success rate isn't that great. And all sources I've read seem to indicate that this was a well off family, who could have afforded mental health care if they wanted it.
 
2012-12-17 02:26:29 PM

Endive Wombat: The shooter did not buy the weapons, he stole them from his mother, he was only 20. Federal law already prohibits the purchase and carrying of handguns by those under 21 without adult supervision.


His mother should get the death penalty for not properly safing her weapons.

/wait? what? she already did? GOOD.
 
2012-12-17 02:27:04 PM

shower_in_my_socks: Zeno-25: After all, reinstating the AWB wouldn't have prevented this tragedy, or any of the recent other ones. Most of these massacres are comitted with semi-auto handguns, and good luck getting a blanket ban on any semi-autos past the Supreme Court anytime in the next couple decades. A fundamental change in the way our society approaches mental illness is the only thing that could have prevented this.


Firstly, the ME in Newtown said most or all of the victims were shot with the long rifle, although I agree with you in most OTHER cases it's the semi-auto handguns that are the gun of choice, because nothing packs that much fire power into such an easily-concealable weapon.

While I agree that we need better mental healthcare in this country (which will require evil SOCIALISM!!!), there are a number of other things that would have prevented this shooting from happening:

1. A background check on the shooter's mom when she bought the guns that extended to everyone in her household. Her kid had a long history of issues and had been booted from public school for being a nutcase. That house should not have had guns in it.
2. Better education about keeping firearms locked-up.
3. Not treating guns as a "hobby," which the shooter's mom reportedly did. They are mass-killing, military weapons. They deserve a hell of a lot more respect than comparing them to quilting and stamp collecting.

The shooter was turned away by a gun store earlier this week when he was told there would be a background check and a waiting period. So that law WORKED and it delayed the attack. Who knows how many other would-be shooters out there have been delayed indefinitely by similar laws. If his mom hadn't been irresponsibly storing guns in a home where she knew there was a person with lifelong behavioral issues, we wouldn't be having this conversation today.


THis too, is spot on. Well said.
 
2012-12-17 02:27:37 PM

PreMortem: El_Frijole_Blanco: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

You need to go back 30 years when the mental health system got shut down

Conservative hero Ronald Reagan and his Omnibus bill. I'm just gonna copypasta this all day:

Court ordered mandatory psychological exam, then involuntary institutionalisation.

We are allowing too many whack jobs to roam freely.


Oh oh oh... new conspiracy for the derpers...

Sandy Hook was not a secret Obama plot to take our guns... Sandy Hook was a Secret Obama plot to re-institute government ordered involuntary institutionalization. So he can declare all his enemies insane and have FEMA round them up.
 
2012-12-17 02:27:38 PM

letrole: The interesting thing here is the way that guns and politics are being blamed for spree shootings.

Spree shootings are caused by a lack of personal restraint. In some cases, such as Charles Whitman, the fellow was suffering from madness with an organic cause ie a brain tumour. He left diaries and letters that showed jumbled and irrational thoughts.

But in nearly all cases, this lack of personal restraint comes from the breakdown of society.

1. If suicide is no longer a sin,
2. If public disobedience and defiance against authority are glorified,
3. If fame or celebrity is rewarded without merit,
4. If Right and Wrong are no longer absolute,
5. If erratic behaviour is no longer shameful,
6. If internal or self justification is held as a virtue,

-- then it will all continue along this path until society completely collapses, and a new order reforms from the ashes


So, basically, atheist gays are the problem here. Good to know.
 
2012-12-17 02:27:45 PM

Ace25: Has it been pointed out that this is only their facebook page? Their website is still up and running. I didn't know it was a big deal or people cared about facebook pages going down. Never used the facebook thing myself and have no intention of ever doing so.


the only reason that their facebook page is down is that they are a bunch of cowards. they were unwilling to stand by their convictions or their member comments.
nor were they willing to face public criticism on facebook.

sounds like a bunch of teenage girls
 
2012-12-17 02:28:43 PM

letrole: society completely collapses


Y'all better listen to this guy. His surname is Letrole.
 
2012-12-17 02:29:00 PM

TypoFlyspray: snocone: Fear drives the need for prevention of violent crimes.
Problem is that the time line defies the concept.
So politicians and charlitans sell the concept to the afeared masses. PROFIT!

There is no law against violence that will ever provide safety from violence.

So making murder illegal does nothing to change the rate of murder?

Silly.

Nothing will ever provide complete safety. Doesn't mean that a well crafted, intelligently enforced law can't increase the level of safety by making violence more difficult.


I was taught murder is illegal, UNLESS,,, God says so, your comanding officer says so, some politician hands you a gun and says so,
Gee, let me count the ways murder is not murder.
That sort of law?
Humans are just so farking excellent at violence.
Even you!!!
 
2012-12-17 02:29:03 PM
Luckily, before guns were so prevalent the US was a quiet and peaceful place where there were no crazies.

Except for the arsonists, and the bombers, and the people driving vehicles through crowds, and the serial killers.. so I guess bad people find a way regardless of firearm access.
 
2012-12-17 02:29:12 PM

TimonC346: Yeah--this is partially true. The ease of our access to guns, high powered and extremely efficient ones, is also part of that problem. More laws? Probably not. An all out ban on import or production of those guns would surely help. We can talk the whole "Meth causes problems, we should make it illegal so people stop doing it" is a malarkey argument--considering guns are neither mentally or physically addictive.


On another thread, I posted a reference to the "Frontline" ep on meth, and its comparison to Quaaludes. We can stop the problem if we make the object so rare only the truly dedicated could get their hands on it. The problem is, one of the chief arguments against gun control is "Well, dedicated criminals could still get their hands on guns." Well, dedicated addicts can still get their hands on Quaaludes. Does that mean we never should have confronted the problem?
 
2012-12-17 02:29:26 PM

DROxINxTHExWIND: Has it occured to any of the people talking about the need for increased gun control that guns are not biodegradable? Even if you ban new weapons, there are already many more on the streets. Also, criminals do not follow the law. That is a prerequisite to being a criminal. Why would they care about an assult weapons ban? For the record, the kids werenot killed by a legally-owned firearm. The murderer stole it from his dead mother.


That is the problem with a lot of legislation surrounding guns...the laws passed really only make it more difficult for legal, law abiding citizens and creates "gotcha" traps for law abiding citizens.

I mean look at the most basic facts surrounding this case:

20 year old man stole guns from his mother
Man shoots and kills mother
Man commits breaking and entering into a school
Man shoots and kills multiple other humans

All his actions were illegal. Theft is illegal, shooting someone for the sake of shooting them is illegal, breaking and entering is illegal, murder is illegal. Requiring a magazine to only hold 6 rounds instead of 12 would have done nothing to prevent death in a situation like this because this guys victims were basically unarmed women and children.
 
2012-12-17 02:30:05 PM

letrole: The interesting thing here is the way that guns and politics are being blamed for spree shootings.

Spree shootings are caused by a lack of personal restraint. In some cases, such as Charles Whitman, the fellow was suffering from madness with an organic cause ie a brain tumour. He left diaries and letters that showed jumbled and irrational thoughts.

But in nearly all cases, this lack of personal restraint comes from the breakdown of society.

1. If suicide is no longer a sin,
2. If public disobedience and defiance against authority are glorified,
3. If fame or celebrity is rewarded without merit,
4. If Right and Wrong are no longer absolute,
5. If erratic behaviour is no longer shameful,
6. If internal or self justification is held as a virtue,

-- then it will all continue along this path until society completely collapses, and a new order reforms from the ashes


Clearly we need to bring that old time religion back to our schools before it's too late.

You want to go with Ganesh, Pan, or Cthulhu?
 
2012-12-17 02:30:36 PM

namatad: Ace25: Has it been pointed out that this is only their facebook page? Their website is still up and running. I didn't know it was a big deal or people cared about facebook pages going down. Never used the facebook thing myself and have no intention of ever doing so.

the only reason that their facebook page is down is that they are a bunch of cowards. they were unwilling to stand by their convictions or their member comments.
nor were they willing to face public criticism on facebook.

sounds like a bunch of teenage girls


Meanwhile, on the Mass Effect 3 page...
 
2012-12-17 02:30:39 PM

Ace25: Has it been pointed out that this is only their facebook page? Their website is still up and running. I didn't know it was a big deal or people cared about facebook pages going down. Never used the facebook thing myself and have no intention of ever doing so.


No,but it's a pretty wuss move instead of facing the issue headon.

These are the same folks who try to blame everything else but guns for these mass shootings.

But hey we're making progress, it only took a mass shooting at an elementary school for gun nuts to realize that maybe we need to pay more attention to mental health care in this country instead of cutting funding for it because Socialism.
 
2012-12-17 02:30:43 PM

Endive Wombat: TimonC346: And frankly, our current course allowed for what happened Friday. Anyone with instability who ever slips through a mental health system is allowed to buy weapons. That's a massive risk we are taking there.

The shooter did not buy the weapons, he stole them from his mother, he was only 20. Federal law already prohibits the purchase and carrying of handguns by those under 21 without adult supervision.


Good point--but why the fark does anyone need a high powered rifle, like the one he used to kill everyone in there with the exception of himself?
 
2012-12-17 02:31:13 PM

EViLTeW: Luckily, before guns were so prevalent the US was a quiet and peaceful place where there were no crazies.


Another strawman riddled with bullet holes.
 
2012-12-17 02:31:26 PM

Gyrfalcon: It would be nicer if we could have a real conversation about it without a few more incidents like this, she said hopefully (but dubiously nonetheless).


It's starting. Really. The signs are good. I don't think it will go anywhere this time, but it is starting.
 
2012-12-17 02:31:53 PM

Pants full of macaroni!!: letrole: society completely collapses

Y'all better listen to this guy. His surname is Letrole.


And that's like the 3rd time I've seen that post since Friday.
 
2012-12-17 02:32:36 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


the further this country goes down the drain the worse the consequences. people are very easily misled while getting them to do the right thing requires hard work and effort.

after Truman Capote's "In Cold Blood" was brought to the silver screen we saw more disturbing behavior along this line. after a couple in the mid 60's (?) claimed to have been abducted and probed by aliens more people came forward and claimed the same thing happened to them.

look back a few years. what were children and teens exposed to in the 20s, 30s and 40s, and how were most of them raised? sure there was technology in the day. there was education. there was discipline. there was some bad things as always like crime, alcoholism & drugs, abuse. for the most part young people were very naive and innocent. their worlds were very small. local newspaper, radio broadcasts, TV later if you could afford it. patriotic pride was big in the day. big changes: television, transportation especially the freedom the of automobile. but in the early part of the 1900's most people were poor but not hoodlums, criminals or recidivists.

each decade has had huge farking changes. Einstein said it best (1950s?): "Our technology has far surpassed our humanity". mankind waging war or being violent is nothing new, we are a horrible bloodthirsty greedy arrogant self involved species. and it seems like we are much like Hollywood talent: those gifted with good looks and the ability to act, sing etcetera seem to pay a high price for their gifts. mental illness, demos in the form of alcohol or drug addiction, poor life choices, blahblahblah. It seems like the more gifts mankind is given the higher the price we pay.

We abuse our computers, our selves. Garbage in, garbage out - you've heard it all before. If you surround yourself with negative thinking, music that focuses on death and darkness, leisure time activities that are a treasure trove of blood and guts, hunting killing shooting death destruction while the television programs being broadcast into your home are the type that exploit all sorts of people with personality disorders, mental illness, discipline problems, ignorance and/or stupidity, or a barrage of ultra violent horror and disturbing imagery, story and sound - well what do you think is going to become of that lab rat?

How the fark is a person who is knee-deep in that circumstance supposed to rise and shine and behave like a better quality individual?

Meanwhile take a look at how much of the population is unwanted and unplanned. For every birth I hear of that is a welcomed planned event, a blessing to a well educated employed seemingly sane set of parents I probably hear of 10 - 15 births that are no where near such happy circumstance. unwed teen drop-outs that are unemployed having their 2nd baby. drunks, drug addicts, blah blah blah all sorts of people who should be getting their personal shiat together are bringing little ones into the world while they can barely keep their head above water.

so there is no short cute answer. it's a huge POS society that is crapping out problems we all have to put up with, pay for and suffer for.

i realize it's so hip to shiat all over religion on the internet too. good for you. a lot of people bring their children up in a church because that's how their parents raised them. and they were taught right from wrong, charity, kindness, all sorts of things. of course these things can be taught outside a church and without a so-called holy text. obviously there is a whole lot of people that need to be shown how this is done. so enjoy crapping on people who believe while ignoring the good works they quietly do for their community. then look at yourself and ask what have you done for your neighbors in need lately.

meanwhile i'm sure a million dooshbags have all sorts of ultra violent goodies all wrapped up ready to put under the Christmas tree this year. they have not learned a damn thing. and more massacres will take place next year. hell, maybe next week. maybe tomorrow. as long as your kid is happy playing Blood Guts Kill Kill Kill III on Christmas Day hell that's all that matters.

keep burying your head in the internet, cell phones, NASCAR, television and every other distraction that comes along.

are you aware not every country is flooded with negative newscasts 24/7? USA USA USA. many countries / governments will not allow the filth trash sewage we have on TV to be broadcast in their countries. they don't wanted their citizens exposed to such horror.

---in the USA you need to learn and pass a test to drive a car, sell real estate, or to cut someones hair. meanwhile we let any and every moran bump uglies and make babies they cannot raise properly. many don't know how. many weren't raised right their self. many could care farking less.
as long as we the people who pay the tab and suffer the pain allow this to continue it will.

Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, Good Kwanza, Happy Holidays, Enjoy your Tet, May Your Festivus Be Fine Have a Pleasant New Year.
 
2012-12-17 02:32:42 PM

IlGreven: EViLTeW: Luckily, before guns were so prevalent the US was a quiet and peaceful place where there were no crazies.

Another strawman riddled with bullet holes.


That wouldn't have happened if the strawman was armed.
 
2012-12-17 02:32:54 PM

CapeFearCadaver: Pants full of macaroni!!: letrole: society completely collapses

Y'all better listen to this guy. His surname is Letrole.

And that's like the 3rd time I've seen that post since Friday.


This is your boss. Get back to work
 
2012-12-17 02:33:10 PM
The problems are clearly caused by

* Demon rock-n-roll
* Jazz, the devils music
* Unwed mothers
* Godless commies
* Marijuana
* The Irish
* The Jews
* The Mexicans
* Guns
* Alcohol
* Violent video games
* gay marriage
* abortion
* taking god out of schools
* secret Muslims
* masturbation
* short skirts
* Negroes
* skittles & hoodies

Or maybe, just maybe, some people aren't right in the head and just do terrible things for no good reason at all and banning inanimate objects won't really solve anything. Nahhh.
 
2012-12-17 02:33:15 PM

TimonC346: Good point--but why the fark does anyone need a high powered rifle, like the one he used to kill everyone in there with the exception of himself?


to keep the King of England out of his face
 
2012-12-17 02:33:15 PM
Blaming the NRA for gun deaths makes about as much sense as blaming two stupid Aussie DJ's and a prank on a nurse's suicide.
 
2012-12-17 02:34:03 PM
i dont know why tenpoundsofcheese is still here, weve all already seen the episode of newsroom tried to earn himself troll street cred.
 
2012-12-17 02:34:39 PM

Abuse Liability: It's a great thing you're no scientist. The old adage "correlation does not equal causation" would fit pretty well with your statement


Unfortunately for that argument, it's not commutative.

Correlation != Causation.
However,
Causation = Correlation

So if you see a correlation, you can start looking for a causation. And if you find other correlations, you can suspect you're on the right track.

Or you can say that Logic is just a way of being wrong with confidence.
 
2012-12-17 02:34:39 PM
Some interesting mass murder stats

assets.motherjones.com

assets.motherjones.com
 
2012-12-17 02:35:32 PM

namatad: His mother should get the death penalty for not properly safing her weapons.

/wait? what? she already did? GOOD.



O so very this.
 
2012-12-17 02:35:46 PM

Ed Finnerty: IlGreven: EViLTeW: Luckily, before guns were so prevalent the US was a quiet and peaceful place where there were no crazies.

Another strawman riddled with bullet holes.

That wouldn't have happened if the strawman was armed.


I assumed the strawman was forced to drink poisoned kool-aid?
(I forgot to add religious nutbags to my original list and had to work it in somehow)
 
2012-12-17 02:35:57 PM
Or we could just do the sane thing and ignore these incidents and remove the incentive.

I know, it's crazy.
 
2012-12-17 02:36:11 PM
This issue has nothing to do with guns, they are the red herring. The issue has everything to do with mental health and the inherent difficultly that lies in getting people help that they need whether they want it or not.

Mental health care needs to be readily available without going through hoops to anyone that needs it. As our population grows the number of people that our going to have episodes will also inevitably grow. By making mental health care available as needed you should prevent the vast majority of potential issues.

Some people are beyond the reach of weekly counseling and medication though. The medical standards have changed and it is now very difficult to get someone committed against their will, and even then you can usually only do so for three days. The standards that require an /immediate/ risk to self or others needs to changed to an indeterminable risk to self or others.
 
2012-12-17 02:36:29 PM

dittybopper: It's a smart move, so as to remove the possibility of comments by idiots who may belong to the NRA (and every organization has idiots, the NRA is not immune to that).


I'm thinking it's the other way around. Assuing that their page allows open commenting, I could imagin that with a few hours after the shootings, they page likely got flooded with people directly blaming th NRA for making it too easy to get such weapons as assualt riles.

I've made no bones about this. I think it is a fine and reasonable right to own guns. Hunting, recreation, or self defense. But, there is no need for some person in the suburbs to own a milary grade assult rifle. (I guess those deer won't kill themselves after all).

There does ned to be better restrictions. There are already restrictions in place otherwise I could walk into WalMart and buy a RPG launcher, or an Uzi. All they really have to do is tighten things up a bit.
 
2012-12-17 02:37:01 PM

SpectroBoy: Or maybe, just maybe, some people aren't right in the head and just do terrible things for no good reason at all and banning inanimate objects won't really solve anything. Nahhh.


So therefore, we should do absolutely nothing. The problem will fix itself. Please don't take away my life-affirming inanimate objects.
 
2012-12-17 02:38:05 PM

onyxruby: This issue has nothing to do with guns, they are the red herring.


People can keep saying this. It doesn't make it true. Even if a majority of people believe it, it doesn't make it true.
 
2012-12-17 02:40:57 PM
I haven't renewed my membership for a couple of years. Thanks for reminding me that they could use my support, they've supported We The People plenty in the past.
 
2012-12-17 02:42:16 PM

sorhed: ...despite having the exact same cultural influences.


lol
 
2012-12-17 02:42:19 PM

snocone: Humans are just so farking excellent at violence.
Even you!!!


Truth, that. And yet my bodycount remains zero.
 
2012-12-17 02:42:41 PM

xalres: A prime example of how to tell you're dealing with cowards. If they truly had the courage of their convictions they'd be sticking to their guns, this just shows that at some level they know they've been arguing for the indefensible this whole time.

Farking cowards.



QFT
 
2012-12-17 02:43:55 PM

EViLTeW: Ed Finnerty: IlGreven: EViLTeW: Luckily, before guns were so prevalent the US was a quiet and peaceful place where there were no crazies.

Another strawman riddled with bullet holes.

That wouldn't have happened if the strawman was armed.

I assumed the strawman was forced to drink poisoned kool-aid?
(I forgot to add religious nutbags to my original list and had to work it in somehow)


...if they were taught the kool-aid gives you immortality, then, pretty much yes, yes they were.

/And we're taught that guns are sacrosanct. Meanwhile, free speech, free religion, free assembly? Suggestions.
 
2012-12-17 02:44:59 PM

TypoFlyspray: snocone: Humans are just so farking excellent at violence.
Even you!!!

Truth, that. And yet my bodycount remains zero.


Just gotta find the right button.
 
2012-12-17 02:45:26 PM
Flakeloaf: Well hey, once you accept the idea of an omnipotent, invisible creator creature that revealed itself in a book to some guys in the desert a while back and hasn't said or done anything since, all that seems pretty sensible by comparison.

Geotpf: So, basically, atheist gays are the problem here. Good to know.

TypoFlyspray Clearly we need to bring that old time religion back to our schools before it's too late.


But random shootings increase. Can't blame Religion, it's less influential today than ever. Can't blame guns, they were even more unrestricted and available in the past. Can't blame bullies, *everyone* used to shun and pick-on the misfits.
 
2012-12-17 02:45:59 PM
DNRTA but did the NRA take it down or did FB do it for them....


Like how google deletes bloggers based on their views......
 
2012-12-17 02:46:13 PM
It's funny how much overlap there is between people that want vastly more stringent gun ownership restrictions, and people that want more government control of everything.

And yet, the gun owners are the cowards.
 
2012-12-17 02:46:29 PM
Let's outlaw killing people!!
 
2012-12-17 02:46:45 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Why do people still take you seriously?
 
2012-12-17 02:47:13 PM

KrispyKritter: after Truman Capote's "In Cold Blood" was brought to the silver screen we saw more disturbing behavior along this line. after a couple in the mid 60's (?) claimed to have been abducted and probed by aliens more people came forward and claimed the same thing happened to them.


Hey, when you head back to the Fifties, can I tag along? It sounds really swell.

/ OK, that for the funny. I don't agree with most of your post, (Nor to I want to debate it) but you raise some good points. So thanks.
 
2012-12-17 02:47:50 PM

lenfromak: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

Well, the federal law that disarms everyone inside government schools. There's that.


When did that take affect? (being ignorant not sarcastic) I remember in HS that we had a sheriffs deputy that was stationed at the school full time. We also had a couple of reservist teachers that while they didn't carry, would often have a weapon locked in their car (i learned after talking to one a couple years after graduation) This seems incredibly reasonable and the smart thing todo. I can understand not having a weapon in a prison where guards can gang up and take it, but don't see that being likely with a bunch of teenagers.

If any of the adults that raced towards the gunfire had been an armed and trained LEO, i think at least a few lives could have been saved. If an on-duty cop was alerted when the psychopath shot through / broke the locked door, all of the children could have been saved.

I'm in favor of finding a rational solution to preventing these tragedies, something as simple a full time on-duty cop in each school, at least armed with non-lethal weapons has to be considered by any so called rational person.
 
2012-12-17 02:47:59 PM

letrole: Can't blame guns, they were even more unrestricted and available in the past.


Yes, the founding fathers had unrestricted access to machine guns and assault rifles. Hell, they even had Glocks back in the day.
 
2012-12-17 02:48:24 PM

IlGreven: onyxruby: This issue has nothing to do with guns, they are the red herring.

People can keep saying this. It doesn't make it true. Even if a majority of people believe it, it doesn't make it true.


Just curious, do you try to get cars banned because of the very large number of people killed by them every year? This is a people issue, just like drunk driving.
 
2012-12-17 02:48:52 PM
Given the number of wall posts by illogical anti-gun sissies calling for the death of the NRA's president, they were smart to take their page down until this blows over. I don't see a problem with it. Anti-gun sissies have worked themselves up into a mindless mob (just see any recent comments page on Fark) and there's no reasoning with them. Ditto for pro-gun congressmen not showing up on Meet the Press. The only goal was the try to bait them and make them look dumb and the congressmen aren't going to fall for it.
 
2012-12-17 02:49:11 PM

TypoFlyspray: snocone: Fear drives the need for prevention of violent crimes.
Problem is that the time line defies the concept.
So politicians and charlitans sell the concept to the afeared masses. PROFIT!

There is no law against violence that will ever provide safety from violence.

So making murder illegal does nothing to change the rate of murder?

Silly.

Nothing will ever provide complete safety. Doesn't mean that a well crafted, intelligently enforced law can't increase the level of safety by making violence more difficult.


Or we could address the actual problem, by identifying those who need help, then giving them that help.

But no, that's just crazy talk.
 
2012-12-17 02:49:50 PM

onyxruby: IlGreven: onyxruby: This issue has nothing to do with guns, they are the red herring.

People can keep saying this. It doesn't make it true. Even if a majority of people believe it, it doesn't make it true.

Just curious, do you try to get cars banned because of the very large number of people killed by them every year? This is a people issue, just like drunk driving.


...and yet another strawman gets riddled with bullet holes. How many cars were used for even single murders last year, let alone mass murder?
 
2012-12-17 02:51:07 PM

TypoFlyspray: Abuse Liability: It's a great thing you're no scientist. The old adage "correlation does not equal causation" would fit pretty well with your statement

Unfortunately for that argument, it's not commutative.

Correlation != Causation.
However,
Causation = Correlation

So if you see a correlation, you can start looking for a causation. And if you find other correlations, you can suspect you're on the right track.

Or you can say that Logic is just a way of being wrong with confidence.


While it may give you a good place to start, science has proven again and again that many of these things (e.g., violent video games, music, etc...) are simply sought out by those predisposed to violence (see crazy) and aren't actually a causative factor. In other words, I could jsay that Christmas causes mass shooting spree's because they each happen at least once a year.
 
2012-12-17 02:51:40 PM
What does the NRA have to do with a mentally ill, non gun owning, mass murderer?
 
2012-12-17 02:51:43 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


George W. Bush allowed the assault weapons ban to expire.

/Next question
 
2012-12-17 02:52:05 PM

letrole: But random shootings increase. Can't blame Religion, it's less influential today than ever.

Wow, what planet are you on?

Can't blame guns, they were even more unrestricted and available in the past.
Clearly it's not one where they teach history.

Can't blame bullies, *everyone* used to shun and pick-on the misfits.
And few of the misfits went and snapped and killed a bunch of people, because you could lock up the truly crazy before they snapped.
 
2012-12-17 02:52:10 PM

brnt00: But let's keep derping about gun control.


High-capacity magazines - for when shooting a first grader ten times isn't enough!
 
2012-12-17 02:52:47 PM

sorhed: You know, the rest of the world sees America's violent movies and plays its violent video games, and some how manage to avoid monthly school massacres, despite having the exact same cultural influences.


As well as 99.999998666666666666666666666667% of everyone in America.

/ check my math, if you consider 100% - ( 4 / 300,000,000) * 100 americans (using the number of gunmen since Obama took office taken from his speech)
 
2012-12-17 02:54:17 PM

Kuroshin: Or we could address the actual problem, by identifying those who need help, then giving them that help.

But no, that's just crazy talk.


All in favor of it. That's a big part of the problem and needs to be fixed. But since it's not a perfect solution, let's see what else we can do to make violent impulses less deadly. I recommend we consider some reasonable gun control laws, enforcing the ones on the books, and getting rid of the loopholes.
 
2012-12-17 02:54:34 PM

Kuroshin: Or we could address the actual problem, by identifying those who need help, then giving them that help.


So, again, in an effort to keep your 2nd amendment rights, you want to restrict both the 2nd and 1st amendment rights of people who score poorly on mental health evaluations, yet have never harmed anyone? Meanwhile, the healthy farkwads who kill their wives and kids before offing themselves will still have that opportunity? 

Mental health services would not have stopped Jovan Belcher. They might have stopped Chris Benoit, but that opens up a whole new can of worms, since he had no family history of mental illness; said mental illness was caused mostly by the bumps he took as a pro wrestler. Concussions can produce effects similar to those found in long-term mental psychoses. Does that mean we should lock up anyone who's ever wrestled, played football, or just hit their head on the pavement really hard one day?
 
2012-12-17 02:54:58 PM

hbk72777: What does the NRA have to do with a mentally ill, non gun owning, mass murderer?


Hang on. I'll ask them on Facebook.
 
2012-12-17 02:55:17 PM
letrole: Can't blame guns, they were even more unrestricted and available in the past.

IlGreven Yes, the founding fathers had unrestricted access to machine guns and assault rifles. Hell, they even had Glocks back in the day.

Richard Speck mass murdered eight nurses with a knife. He could have executed them with a revolver if he chose. Mass killings do not require automatic weapons.
 
2012-12-17 02:55:21 PM

Abuse Liability: While it may give you a good place to start, science has proven again and again that many of these things (e.g., violent video games, music, etc...) are simply sought out by those predisposed to violence (see crazy) and aren't actually a causative factor.


I agree with you there.
 
2012-12-17 02:56:08 PM
The NRA and gun lobby has an indefensible position and situations like CT only draw attention to it.

6% of Americans hunted last year.

Since Americans are not ever attacked by a squadron of bad guys, there is no argument for allowing Tanks, RPG's, assault rifles, ICBM's etc for home use.

Demanding that people be allowed spray 100 rounds in 1 min without limits is stupid.

When a crazy person decides they want to kill ...we cant stop them. They can bash, stab etc and will catch someone by surprise.

When a crazy person decides they want to kill 30 people - they cant do that without access to military type firepower / and explosives.

The tragedy may not have been avoidable, but it was certainly something that could have been mitigated. The NRA knows it and they should be ashamed at their lobby success.
 
2012-12-17 02:56:27 PM

TypoFlyspray: namatad: His mother should get the death penalty for not properly safing her weapons.

/wait? what? she already did? GOOD.


O so very this.


You don't know that he didn't kill her and then take the weapons, though. Or if she had them securely stored and he stole them. He was an adult after all, and they lived in the same house. What was she supposed to do (besides not have any guns at all)? All he needed to do was get the key or the combination and open the safe.

The guns were legally obtained and otherwise lawful. The only person responsible here was the shooter. Period.
 
2012-12-17 02:56:38 PM

brnt00: But let's keep derping about gun control.


Keep spewing that bullshiat. What'll you do when 'Obama comes for your guns' like you pro gun people like to say...that's your fantasy isn't it? Looks like you gun lovers are going to get what you've always wanted...a showdown with the left over assault weapon and handgun bans and as a bonus...it's a brown guy!
 
2012-12-17 02:58:34 PM

letrole: letrole: Can't blame guns, they were even more unrestricted and available in the past.

IlGreven Yes, the founding fathers had unrestricted access to machine guns and assault rifles. Hell, they even had Glocks back in the day.

Richard Speck mass murdered eight nurses with a knife. He could have executed them with a revolver if he chose. Mass killings do not require automatic weapons.


That's not an argument for legalizing automatic weapons.
 
2012-12-17 02:58:46 PM

TypoFlyspray: If you tag and title guns, and license gun owners, then make carrying an unlicensed gun or a gun without having a gun license a crime that carries significant jailtime and forfeiture of the weapon, you 1) Increase the risk level of carrying an unlicensed gun to the degree that smart criminals will carry them far less often, 2) Provide an opportunity for law enforcement to inject themselves into the situation before anyone gets shot, 3) Gradually decrease the number of illegal guns in circulation, and 4) Drive the price of those that remain on the black market up beyond the means of most criminals.

Further, if your gun is stolen, you would report it, because if you didn't you would bear some responsibility if it were used. People would be more likely to keep their guns in a secure storage and less likely to share the combination to that storage with their violently crazy kid.

If you want to let the perfect be the enemy of the better, you go ahead, but I'm going to try to make some progress here.



I like where your head is at, but this would never work and here is why:

If you tag and title guns, and license gun owners
Tagging and titling the guns creates a paper trail, which on the one hand is good, but on the other hand does nothing to account for the millions of guns that are now on the street and that cross into the US from Mexico. There will still be unaccounted guns. For those that are accounted for, that list becomes a shopping list for criminals who somehow manage to get their hands on it either by legal means like the Freedom of Information Act or illegal means like hacking for example. Look at the multiple security breeches on a yearly basis and how many SSNs and credit card numbers are hacked...Do you really think that the Federal Government will have this information in the most secure facility possible? Not likely as it is WAY too cost prohibitive.

then make carrying an unlicensed gun or a gun without having a gun license a crime that carries significant jailtime and forfeiture of the weapon

Criminals will still be criminals. This really only punishes law abiding citizens.

1) Increase the risk level of carrying an unlicensed gun to the degree that smart criminals will carry them far less often

Maybe. Only maybe. Sure the guys at the top may not carry, but their foot soldiers still will. This still goes back to the fact that criminals by their very nature do not follow the law, no matter how harsh the punishment.

2) Provide an opportunity for law enforcement to inject themselves into the situation before anyone gets shot


Not really sure what you are talking about here...

3) Gradually decrease the number of illegal guns in circulation,


How do you propose to do this? The only answer I've got is create more jobs, bolster the economy and make the criminal lifestyle less financially attractive.

Further, if your gun is stolen, you would report it, because if you didn't you would bear some responsibility if it were used. People would be more likely to keep their guns in a secure storage and less likely to share the combination to that storage with their violently crazy kid.

I cannot imagine this would be held up by SCOTUS. If someone breaks into my house and takes my things including my gun(s), I do not see how I am responsible for their actions post B&E. Are you responsible for the actions of someone who stole your car? Again, thef, and B&E are already illegal. 

Fine, use a biometric safe that requires a hand print...nothing is stopping me from slitting your throat, chopping off your hand and getting in from there...or at least threatening to do this to you...
 
2012-12-17 02:58:47 PM

letrole: letrole: Can't blame guns, they were even more unrestricted and available in the past.

IlGreven Yes, the founding fathers had unrestricted access to machine guns and assault rifles. Hell, they even had Glocks back in the day.

Richard Speck mass murdered eight nurses with a knife. He could have executed them with a revolver if he chose. Mass killings do not require automatic weapons.


Makes it much easier. Guy in Connecticut walks into a school with a brace of guns and 20 people die. Guy in China walks into a school and 22 kids get cut. No one dies.

Call me whacky, but I'll take my chances with a guy with a knife if the other option is a guy with a gun.
 
2012-12-17 03:00:01 PM

Gyrfalcon: The guns were legally obtained and otherwise lawful. The only person responsible here was the shooter. Period.


Had they been illegal in the first place they wouldn't have been there for him to take. What part about that aren't you grasping?
 
2012-12-17 03:00:13 PM

TypoFlyspray: If you tag and title guns, and license gun owners, then make carrying an unlicensed gun or a gun without having a gun license a crime that carries significant jailtime and forfeiture of the weapon, you 1) Increase the risk level of carrying an unlicensed gun to the degree that smart criminals will carry them far less often, 2) Provide an opportunity for law enforcement to inject themselves into the situation before anyone gets shot, 3) Gradually decrease the number of illegal guns in circulation, and 4) Drive the price of those that remain on the black market up beyond the means of most criminals.


There is a problem with this: You can make a gun relatively easily. This guy made the receiver for an AK (the actual part that is classified as a "gun") using an old used shovel.

My main hunting rifle was handmade for me by my father.

Guns are a 600 year old technology that for most of that time were made using tools and materials inferior to those found at your Lowes or Home Depot.
 
2012-12-17 03:00:31 PM
Meh, the gun lobby make's every gun-loving 'merican think the government is going to take away his or her revolver, shotgun, or hunting rifle. In actuality, they're using that support to sustain the minority of gun owners who believe they need to protect themselves against the government. Those folks have their own private arms race against law enforcement....and that's where the profits are.
 
2012-12-17 03:01:03 PM

lilbjorn: tenpoundsofcheese: we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

George W. Bush allowed the assault weapons ban to expire.

/Next question


Did it really take 160-170 posts before someone came in and Bush'd the thread?

Seriously. You people are slacking.
 
2012-12-17 03:01:36 PM
Kuroshin: Or we could address the actual problem, by identifying those who need help, then giving them that help.


So the TSA riffling through your knickers at the airport is bad

But with the *same* Government authority, some sort of all-encompassing authority has the power to decide if you're a threat, and take whatever steps are necessary to cure you.
 
2012-12-17 03:01:56 PM

TheOriginalEd: Kudos to the NRA for a moment of silence and trying not to feed the fire.


They're waiting for things to blow over a bit before they send out their fundraising letter.
 
2012-12-17 03:03:09 PM

IlGreven: letrole: Can't blame guns, they were even more unrestricted and available in the past.

Yes, the founding fathers had unrestricted access to machine guns and assault rifles. Hell, they even had Glocks back in the day.


Maybe not, but they did have access to cannons and cannon balls that explode on impact blasting shrapnel in all directions killing anyone in a 20 yard radius. There were much nastier ways of killing massive amounts of people long before rapid-reload small arms.
 
2012-12-17 03:03:26 PM

easypray: The NRA and gun lobby has an indefensible position and situations like CT only draw attention to it.

6% of Americans hunted last year.

Since Americans are not ever attacked by a squadron of bad guys, there is no argument for allowing Tanks, RPG's, assault rifles, ICBM's etc for home use.

Demanding that people be allowed spray 100 rounds in 1 min without limits is stupid.

When a crazy person decides they want to kill ...we cant stop them. They can bash, stab etc and will catch someone by surprise.

When a crazy person decides they want to kill 30 people - they cant do that without access to military type firepower / and explosives.

The tragedy may not have been avoidable, but it was certainly something that could have been mitigated. The NRA knows it and they should be ashamed at their lobby success.


I actually am in favor of stricter gun control, even though I don't believe it will help much (every little bit counts i guess). Just to play devil's advocate though, you don't really need military grade explosives to kill 30... or many more people. All you really need is time and opportunity, which many of these spree killers have. These killings are largely premeditated and as so many have pointed out, the perpetrators need professional medical help.
 
2012-12-17 03:03:31 PM

Endive Wombat: then make carrying an unlicensed gun or a gun without having a gun license a crime that carries significant jailtime and forfeiture of the weapon

Criminals will still be criminals. This really only punishes law abiding citizens.


Law abiding citizens will have gun licenses. Those who don't...say it with me...will be criminals

Or, to use the gun nuts' oh-so-cherished car analogy: Drivers' licenses only punish law-abiding citizens. Criminals who don't have licenses will still have access to cars.
 
2012-12-17 03:04:14 PM

easypray: The NRA and gun lobby has an indefensible position and situations like CT only draw attention to it.

6% of Americans hunted last year.

Since Americans are not ever attacked by a squadron of bad guys, there is no argument for allowing Tanks, RPG's, assault rifles, ICBM's etc for home use.

Demanding that people be allowed spray 100 rounds in 1 min without limits is stupid.

When a crazy person decides they want to kill ...we cant stop them. They can bash, stab etc and will catch someone by surprise.

When a crazy person decides they want to kill 30 people - they cant do that without access to military type firepower / and explosives.

The tragedy may not have been avoidable, but it was certainly something that could have been mitigated. The NRA knows it and they should be ashamed at their lobby success.


Did this guy use any Tanks/RPGs/ICBMs? (The answer is no)
Did he use an "assault rifle" capable of firing 100 rounds in 1 minute? (Unless his last name was Deschain, Dean or Chambers the answer is also no)

If the NRA took their facebook page offline due to the school shootings, its likely because they were smart enough to comprehend that there is no possibility of even remotely rational conversation regarding gun control right after a bunch of children were gunned down.
 
2012-12-17 03:04:21 PM

Endive Wombat: Tagging and titling the guns creates a paper trail, which on the one hand is good, but on the other hand does nothing to account for the millions of guns that are now on the street and that cross into the US from Mexico


So it's not worth doing? What price the blood of children, man?

Endive Wombat: Fine, use a biometric safe that requires a hand print...nothing is stopping me from slitting your throat, chopping off your hand and getting in from there...or at least threatening to do this to you...


See, right here is where I know I don't need to argue with you.

Nevertheless, 1) I think they'd be less likely to send armed goons if the arms were more expensive and the goons were more likely to be arrested if armed. 2) If a guy gets pulled over with an unlicensed gun, he's going to jail or the morgue. 3) if every conviction leads to a destroyed gun, it decreases the number of guns.
 
2012-12-17 03:05:07 PM

mizchief: IlGreven: letrole: Can't blame guns, they were even more unrestricted and available in the past.

Yes, the founding fathers had unrestricted access to machine guns and assault rifles. Hell, they even had Glocks back in the day.

Maybe not, but they did have access to cannons and cannon balls that explode on impact blasting shrapnel in all directions killing anyone in a 20 yard radius. There were much nastier ways of killing massive amounts of people long before rapid-reload small arms.


...and yet, there were fewer mass murders back in the day that weren't a result of war or oppression. Hell, the Boston Massacre only killed 5 people.
 
2012-12-17 03:05:09 PM

Gyrfalcon: The only person responsible here was the shooter.


Spare some blame for the mother, who had a mentally unstable kid in a houseful of guns.

Oh, and the NRA, for raising holy hell any time any type of restriction is proposed.

Like on high-capacity magazines.
 
2012-12-17 03:06:07 PM

clane: Let's outlaw killing people!!


Reactionary! Dirty hippy! Always wanting to take away freedom.
 
2012-12-17 03:06:26 PM
Former British politician Ann Widdecombe tests Ford's active park assist feature in the U.K. in July 2011.

Old Uncle Tom Cobley and aaaaall

Old Uncle Tom Cobley and aaaaall
 
2012-12-17 03:06:31 PM

shower_in_my_socks: "Crazy got a gun" is the reason most mass shootings happen. Preventing crazies from getting guns should be our top priority.


how do you think the NRA would feel about that sort of thing? don't they oppose any and all gun legislation?
 
2012-12-17 03:06:37 PM

Abuse Liability:

I actually am in favor of stricter gun control, even though I don't believe it will help much (every little bit counts i guess). Just to play devil's advocate though, you don't really need military grade explosives to kill 30... or many more people. All you really need is time and opportunity, which many of these spree killers have. These killings are largely premeditated and as so many have pointed out, the perpetrators need professional medical help.


Again, this is not an argument for more guns. People who use it pretend that it is for whatever reason, but it's not.
 
2012-12-17 03:06:55 PM
"Nuclear Weapons Don't Kill People, People Kill People"

A message from the National Nuke Association. Join the NNA today.*

*Application for NNA membership must be accompanied by proof of ownership of a functioning nuclear device.
 
2012-12-17 03:07:03 PM
For over 100 years, these places took good care of the mentally ill. Now, they are in shambles, much like the people who need to be in there.

They were equipped with a Movie theater, bowling alley, a library and more. This wasn't "Johnny got his gun" bullshiat strapped to the bed bullshiat.

Keep giving out free birth control, screw the mentally ill.


Link
Link

200.74.243.171

25.media.tumblr.com

cdn.c.photoshelter.com
 
2012-12-17 03:07:53 PM

EViLTeW: easypray: The NRA and gun lobby has an indefensible position and situations like CT only draw attention to it.

6% of Americans hunted last year.

Since Americans are not ever attacked by a squadron of bad guys, there is no argument for allowing Tanks, RPG's, assault rifles, ICBM's etc for home use.

Demanding that people be allowed spray 100 rounds in 1 min without limits is stupid.

When a crazy person decides they want to kill ...we cant stop them. They can bash, stab etc and will catch someone by surprise.

When a crazy person decides they want to kill 30 people - they cant do that without access to military type firepower / and explosives.

The tragedy may not have been avoidable, but it was certainly something that could have been mitigated. The NRA knows it and they should be ashamed at their lobby success.

Did this guy use any Tanks/RPGs/ICBMs? (The answer is no)
Did he use an "assault rifle" capable of firing 100 rounds in 1 minute? (Unless his last name was Deschain, Dean or Chambers the answer is also no)

If the NRA took their facebook page offline due to the school shootings, its likely because they were smart enough to comprehend that there is no possibility of even remotely rational conversation regarding gun control right after a bunch of children were gunned down.


By that logic Youtube should've taken its comment section offline after the Haditha killings.
 
2012-12-17 03:07:53 PM

dittybopper: TypoFlyspray: If you tag and title guns, and license gun owners, then make carrying an unlicensed gun or a gun without having a gun license a crime that carries significant jailtime and forfeiture of the weapon, you 1) Increase the risk level of carrying an unlicensed gun to the degree that smart criminals will carry them far less often, 2) Provide an opportunity for law enforcement to inject themselves into the situation before anyone gets shot, 3) Gradually decrease the number of illegal guns in circulation, and 4) Drive the price of those that remain on the black market up beyond the means of most criminals.

There is a problem with this: You can make a gun relatively easily. This guy made the receiver for an AK (the actual part that is classified as a "gun") using an old used shovel.

My main hunting rifle was handmade for me by my father.

Guns are a 600 year old technology that for most of that time were made using tools and materials inferior to those found at your Lowes or Home Depot.


Really? I'm happy your father was a craftsman. Hand forged the barrel, did he?

People who are committed to killing someone with a gun will do so. Period.

What I am saying is that upping the level of commitment needed will dissuade some from killing and redirect others into either less deadly (knives, Axes, swords) or more easily detected (Bombs. Bioweapons) methods. I'd say it's worth it.

Basically, when your second amendment starts infringing on my first amendment right to freely assemble, I think it's the 2nd that gives.
 
2012-12-17 03:07:57 PM

lenfromak: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

Well, the federal law that disarms everyone inside government schools. There's that.


Of course! I'd forgotten how all the administrators and teachers carried when I was in school in the 1970s.

Oh, wait, actually nobody was carrying then, either.
 
2012-12-17 03:10:11 PM
img248.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-17 03:10:19 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


If we knew that, we could fix it.
 
2012-12-17 03:12:17 PM

TypoFlyspray: dittybopper: TypoFlyspray: If you tag and title guns, and license gun owners, then make carrying an unlicensed gun or a gun without having a gun license a crime that carries significant jailtime and forfeiture of the weapon, you 1) Increase the risk level of carrying an unlicensed gun to the degree that smart criminals will carry them far less often, 2) Provide an opportunity for law enforcement to inject themselves into the situation before anyone gets shot, 3) Gradually decrease the number of illegal guns in circulation, and 4) Drive the price of those that remain on the black market up beyond the means of most criminals.

There is a problem with this: You can make a gun relatively easily. This guy made the receiver for an AK (the actual part that is classified as a "gun") using an old used shovel.

My main hunting rifle was handmade for me by my father.

Guns are a 600 year old technology that for most of that time were made using tools and materials inferior to those found at your Lowes or Home Depot.

Really? I'm happy your father was a craftsman. Hand forged the barrel, did he?

People who are committed to killing someone with a gun will do so. Period.

What I am saying is that upping the level of commitment needed will dissuade some from killing and redirect others into either less deadly (knives, Axes, swords) or more easily detected (Bombs. Bioweapons) methods. I'd say it's worth it.

Basically, when your second amendment starts infringing on my first amendment right to freely assemble, I think it's the 2nd that gives.


Since when did the 2nd infringe on your right to freedom of assembly? Last time I checked, our latest precious snowflake monster was in illegal possession of the weapons, having murdered someone to steal them, after his attempts to purchase legally were denied.

So, great, you keep farking that chicken buddy.
 
2012-12-17 03:13:51 PM

IlGreven: Abuse Liability:

I actually am in favor of stricter gun control, even though I don't believe it will help much (every little bit counts i guess). Just to play devil's advocate though, you don't really need military grade explosives to kill 30... or many more people. All you really need is time and opportunity, which many of these spree killers have. These killings are largely premeditated and as so many have pointed out, the perpetrators need professional medical help.

Again, this is not an argument for more guns. People who use it pretend that it is for whatever reason, but it's not.


Who's advocating more guns (I assuming you're implying its me as you quoted me)? I'm just saying move the focus to where its appropriate. Guns be damned.
 
2012-12-17 03:14:13 PM
IlGreven: That's not an argument for legalizing automatic weapons.

Spree killings are not being conducted with machine guns. Now you posted this earlier comment:

IlGreven Yes, the founding fathers had unrestricted access to machine guns and assault rifles. Hell, they even had Glocks back in the day.


Are you blaming the availability of machine guns for spree killings? They weren't being used. Can you say moot point?

What you've done is form a strawman argument on the back of an asinine anachronism about the founding fathers having glocks. They didn't have wrist watches either.

Now with all that aside, I've never advocated the legalisation of machine guns. Not here, not elsewhere. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else who thinks you're a dipshiat.
 
2012-12-17 03:15:15 PM

TypoFlyspray: 3) if every conviction leads to a destroyed gun, it decreases the number of guns.


You realize that guns taken after being involved in violent crimes and felonies, are already destroyed, right? They're not sold or taken out of police evidence?
 
2012-12-17 03:15:28 PM

letrole: IlGreven: That's not an argument for legalizing automatic weapons.

Spree killings are not being conducted with machine guns. Now you posted this earlier comment:

IlGreven Yes, the founding fathers had unrestricted access to machine guns and assault rifles. Hell, they even had Glocks back in the day.


Are you blaming the availability of machine guns for spree killings? They weren't being used. Can you say moot point?

What you've done is form a strawman argument on the back of an asinine anachronism about the founding fathers having glocks. They didn't have wrist watches either.

Now with all that aside, I've never advocated the legalisation of machine guns. Not here, not elsewhere. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else who thinks you're a dipshiat.


That's probably me
 
2012-12-17 03:15:41 PM

Flakeloaf: EViLTeW: easypray: The NRA and gun lobby has an indefensible position and situations like CT only draw attention to it.

6% of Americans hunted last year.

Since Americans are not ever attacked by a squadron of bad guys, there is no argument for allowing Tanks, RPG's, assault rifles, ICBM's etc for home use.

Demanding that people be allowed spray 100 rounds in 1 min without limits is stupid.

When a crazy person decides they want to kill ...we cant stop them. They can bash, stab etc and will catch someone by surprise.

When a crazy person decides they want to kill 30 people - they cant do that without access to military type firepower / and explosives.

The tragedy may not have been avoidable, but it was certainly something that could have been mitigated. The NRA knows it and they should be ashamed at their lobby success.

Did this guy use any Tanks/RPGs/ICBMs? (The answer is no)
Did he use an "assault rifle" capable of firing 100 rounds in 1 minute? (Unless his last name was Deschain, Dean or Chambers the answer is also no)

If the NRA took their facebook page offline due to the school shootings, its likely because they were smart enough to comprehend that there is no possibility of even remotely rational conversation regarding gun control right after a bunch of children were gunned down.

By that logic Youtube should've taken its comment section offline after the Haditha killings.

Youtube is pro-marine? pro-invasion-of-Iraq?
Throw me a bone here, I'm trying to understand how Youtube and the NRA are comparable in these two situations.
 
2012-12-17 03:15:44 PM

easypray: Demanding that people be allowed spray 100 rounds in 1 min without limits is stupid.


It takes literally a single second to swap out a magazine. Maybe 2 if you are fumble fingered. So let's say you are limited to 10 round magazines by law. In order to shoot 100 rounds in a minute, you'd have to do 9 swaps (assuming you started with a loaded gun). So that would cost you 9 to 18 seconds, leaving 42 to 51 seconds to shoot those 100 rounds.

I just timed pulling an imaginary trigger by extending my trigger finger and pulling it back fairly rapidly, but certainly not as quickly as I *COULD* have done it. I managed 19 repetitions in 5 seconds, so I'd be able to shoot 100 rounds in about 26 seconds of actual shooting.

OK, so 26 seconds trigger time + 18 seconds of fumble-fingered reloads = 44 seconds total. If I worked on it, I could probably halve the time, or at least get it under 30 seconds.

So, you really didn't think about your talking point, did you?
 
2012-12-17 03:16:28 PM

Abuse Liability: IlGreven: Abuse Liability:

I actually am in favor of stricter gun control, even though I don't believe it will help much (every little bit counts i guess). Just to play devil's advocate though, you don't really need military grade explosives to kill 30... or many more people. All you really need is time and opportunity, which many of these spree killers have. These killings are largely premeditated and as so many have pointed out, the perpetrators need professional medical help.

Again, this is not an argument for more guns. People who use it pretend that it is for whatever reason, but it's not.

Who's advocating more guns (I assuming you're implying its me as you quoted me)? I'm just saying move the focus to where its appropriate. Guns be damned.


I'm not implying you're doing it. I'm implying most of the people who use the argument are using it for that reason, since most of the people who use the argument are the ones who tend to be the 2nd amendment defenders.  My argument against that notion, if you're really dedicated, you can get Quaaludes, too.
 
2012-12-17 03:17:48 PM

dittybopper: easypray: Demanding that people be allowed spray 100 rounds in 1 min without limits is stupid.

It takes literally a single second to swap out a magazine. Maybe 2 if you are fumble fingered. So let's say you are limited to 10 round magazines by law. In order to shoot 100 rounds in a minute, you'd have to do 9 swaps (assuming you started with a loaded gun). So that would cost you 9 to 18 seconds, leaving 42 to 51 seconds to shoot those 100 rounds.

I just timed pulling an imaginary trigger by extending my trigger finger and pulling it back fairly rapidly, but certainly not as quickly as I *COULD* have done it. I managed 19 repetitions in 5 seconds, so I'd be able to shoot 100 rounds in about 26 seconds of actual shooting.

OK, so 26 seconds trigger time + 18 seconds of fumble-fingered reloads = 44 seconds total. If I worked on it, I could probably halve the time, or at least get it under 30 seconds.

So, you really didn't think about your talking point, did you?


Can you convert that to Miculeks?

I'm bad with comparisons using numbers.
 
2012-12-17 03:18:30 PM

hbk72777: For over 100 years, these places took good care of the mentally ill


Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Yep. Good care.

I guess most of the people advocating for bringing them back aren't old enough to remember what happened in them.
 
2012-12-17 03:18:35 PM

IlGreven: mizchief: IlGreven: letrole: Can't blame guns, they were even more unrestricted and available in the past.

Yes, the founding fathers had unrestricted access to machine guns and assault rifles. Hell, they even had Glocks back in the day.

Maybe not, but they did have access to cannons and cannon balls that explode on impact blasting shrapnel in all directions killing anyone in a 20 yard radius. There were much nastier ways of killing massive amounts of people long before rapid-reload small arms.

...and yet, there were fewer mass murders back in the day that weren't a result of war or oppression. Hell, the Boston Massacre only killed 5 people.


Yes, but war and oppression were much more common, so you had more people dying. Unless Black people don't count, of course.
 
2012-12-17 03:19:16 PM

Giltric: Can you convert that to Miculeks?

I'm bad with comparisons using numbers.


Geez, they'd shiat their drawers seeing what he can do with a *REVOLVER*.
 
2012-12-17 03:20:49 PM

Red_Fox: Gyrfalcon: The guns were legally obtained and otherwise lawful. The only person responsible here was the shooter. Period.

Had they been illegal in the first place they wouldn't have been there for him to take. What part about that aren't you grasping?


Ha! Ha! LOL. You owe me a new keyboard!!!!!!

Had they been illegal in the first place they wouldn't have been there for him to take? You mean like Cocaine or pot or prostitutes? I don't snort, smoke or patronize but if I wanted to, I'm sure I could fine any of these 3 within 30 minutes.

You really live in a fantasy world don't you? How about going the 'Full Monty' and tell us how it should have been illegal to commit murder? If there were laws against that, I'm sure the shooter would have followed them.
 
2012-12-17 03:26:06 PM

Red_Fox: Gyrfalcon: The guns were legally obtained and otherwise lawful. The only person responsible here was the shooter. Period.

Had they been illegal in the first place they wouldn't have been there for him to take. What part about that aren't you grasping?


What? do you think that people who legally own guns today are just going to hand them over if a law passes?
 
2012-12-17 03:26:40 PM

IlGreven: letrole: Can't blame guns, they were even more unrestricted and available in the past.

Yes, the founding fathers had unrestricted access to machine guns and assault rifles. Hell, they even had Glocks back in the day.

.

Actually we had unrestricted access until the mid sixties, then the US government began to fear the hippies.

I bet that the Libyans, Algerians are happy they had they human right to protect themselves.
 
2012-12-17 03:29:17 PM

Flash_NYC: Red_Fox: Gyrfalcon: The guns were legally obtained and otherwise lawful. The only person responsible here was the shooter. Period.

Had they been illegal in the first place they wouldn't have been there for him to take. What part about that aren't you grasping?

Ha! Ha! LOL. You owe me a new keyboard!!!!!!

Had they been illegal in the first place they wouldn't have been there for him to take? You mean like Cocaine or pot or prostitutes? I don't snort, smoke or patronize but if I wanted to, I'm sure I could fine any of these 3 within 30 minutes.

You really live in a fantasy world don't you? How about going the 'Full Monty' and tell us how it should have been illegal to commit murder? If there were laws against that, I'm sure the shooter would have followed them.


Based on my conversations with some friends at the FBI, it's pretty easy to get just about any gun you want illegally, and all of the guys i know could have anything, including full auto, within a few days, if they had the cash.
 
2012-12-17 03:30:09 PM

Day_Old_Dutchie: [img248.imageshack.us image 325x325]


GOP: Gullible Old People.
 
2012-12-17 03:31:16 PM
img842.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-17 03:32:18 PM

Red_Fox: Gyrfalcon: The guns were legally obtained and otherwise lawful. The only person responsible here was the shooter. Period.

Had they been illegal in the first place they wouldn't have been there for him to take. What part about that aren't you grasping?


The part where wishing them away will work.
 
2012-12-17 03:33:28 PM

Insatiable Jesus: [img842.imageshack.us image 466x625]


Do you have a link to the original? The one with Hulk Hogan in the background hitting the kids with a chair?
 
2012-12-17 03:33:30 PM

TypoFlyspray: Really? I'm happy your father was a craftsman. Hand forged the barrel, did he?


For that gun, no.

But you don't have to hand-forge a barrel anyway: He built one gun entirely from scratch. For the barrel, he took square steel stock and used his drill press to cut the bore. Then he chucked it up in his lathe, and turned it nice and round. After he did that, he reamed the bore to its final caliber. Since it was a smoothbore (ie., a shotgun), he didn't rifle it. He didn't have to forge the barrel because appropriate steel stock was available to purchase relatively cheaply.

Given the tools, which tens of thousands of Americans have, along with the skills to use them, really anyone can make a gun. A simple single-shot is so easy a kid with a couple semesters of shop could make one, and even a more elaborate gun isn't that hard. Friend of mine bought a rough frame casting for a Colt 1911-style handgun, and a parts kit, and made his own. Doesn't have a serial number on it because he made it himself, and it's perfectly legal to do so.

Making guns is such a popular hobby that there are entire companies dedicated to supplying such hobbyists. Some of them have been in business for 50 years or more.

My point is, though, that even if you could magically prevent legal guns from leaking into the illegal market, something that is impossible, there would still be a market for guns, and it would be a *LUCRATIVE* market for those who want to make some money.

Now all of a sudden you don't have to worry about a handful of manufacturers each turning out tens of thousands of guns, but tens of thousands of manufacturers, each turning out a handful of guns. Much harder thing to keep track of.
 
2012-12-17 03:33:40 PM

snocone: Red_Fox: Gyrfalcon: The guns were legally obtained and otherwise lawful. The only person responsible here was the shooter. Period.

Had they been illegal in the first place they wouldn't have been there for him to take. What part about that aren't you grasping?

The part where wishing them away will work.



We are wishing them away. You are wishing that these 20 dead children will go away and that America will forget. It's called a tipping point. Welcome to it.
 
2012-12-17 03:34:10 PM
LOL now dem senators are crying about assault weapons bans, which still would have done nothing in this case as the killer used pistols. Never let a crisis go to waste.
 
2012-12-17 03:35:35 PM

Kuroshin: TypoFlyspray: snocone: Fear drives the need for prevention of violent crimes.
Problem is that the time line defies the concept.
So politicians and charlitans sell the concept to the afeared masses. PROFIT!

There is no law against violence that will ever provide safety from violence.

So making murder illegal does nothing to change the rate of murder?

Silly.

Nothing will ever provide complete safety. Doesn't mean that a well crafted, intelligently enforced law can't increase the level of safety by making violence more difficult.

Or we could address the actual problem, by identifying those who need help, then giving them that help.

But no, that's just crazy talk.


You job, should you accept, is to make that profitable for the boreasses that run this madhouse.
Should solve the problem if you actually care for people.
 
2012-12-17 03:35:59 PM

Insatiable Jesus: snocone: Red_Fox: Gyrfalcon: The guns were legally obtained and otherwise lawful. The only person responsible here was the shooter. Period.

Had they been illegal in the first place they wouldn't have been there for him to take. What part about that aren't you grasping?

The part where wishing them away will work.


We are wishing them away. You are wishing that these 20 dead children will go away and that America will forget. It's called a tipping point. Welcome to it.


You missed it. The tipping point was June 26th, 2008.
 
2012-12-17 03:36:10 PM

Insatiable Jesus: snocone: Red_Fox: Gyrfalcon: The guns were legally obtained and otherwise lawful. The only person responsible here was the shooter. Period.

Had they been illegal in the first place they wouldn't have been there for him to take. What part about that aren't you grasping?

The part where wishing them away will work.


We are wishing them away. You are wishing that these 20 dead children will go away and that America will forget. It's called a tipping point. Welcome to it.


Serious?
Oh, you kid!
 
2012-12-17 03:37:09 PM

Joe Blowme: LOL now dem senators are crying about assault weapons bans, which still would have done nothing in this case as the killer used pistols. Never let a crisis go to waste.


Not to mention the fact that Connecticut has an assault weapons ban already. The rifle used was legal under that ban, apparently.
 
2012-12-17 03:39:41 PM

onyxruby: IlGreven: onyxruby: This issue has nothing to do with guns, they are the red herring.

People can keep saying this. It doesn't make it true. Even if a majority of people believe it, it doesn't make it true.

Just curious, do you try to get cars banned because of the very large number of people killed by them every year? This is a people issue, just like drunk driving.


Really, keep using the "CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!" argument. It definitely makes a good point - for more regulations on firearms. 

i48.photobucket.com

See, a drunk driver can be caught before he kills anyone, because the mere act of driving drunk is illegal. However, we usually find out that some whackjob had an arsenal only AFTER he kills a couple dozen people because we don't track ammo purchases or require registration of all firearms across the board.
 
2012-12-17 03:40:36 PM

dittybopper: Joe Blowme: LOL now dem senators are crying about assault weapons bans, which still would have done nothing in this case as the killer used pistols. Never let a crisis go to waste.

Not to mention the fact that Connecticut has an assault weapons ban already. The rifle used was legal under that ban, apparently.


And yet not a peep about the guy in china who stabbed 20+ kids the same day? Its all the guns fault and if we only had more laws that only the sane follow we can avoid this kind of stuff.... derp
 
2012-12-17 03:41:05 PM
Is it wrong for me to take such pleasure in watching the GOP branding itself the Pro-School Massacre Party?

It fits nicely with the Pro-Rape, Pro-Greed and Pro-Torture planks in their platform. LOL. Enjoy GOP.
 
2012-12-17 03:41:18 PM

rufus-t-firefly: onyxruby: IlGreven: onyxruby: This issue has nothing to do with guns, they are the red herring.

People can keep saying this. It doesn't make it true. Even if a majority of people believe it, it doesn't make it true.

Just curious, do you try to get cars banned because of the very large number of people killed by them every year? This is a people issue, just like drunk driving.

Really, keep using the "CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!" argument. It definitely makes a good point - for more regulations on firearms. 

[i48.photobucket.com image 500x675]

See, a drunk driver can be caught before he kills anyone, because the mere act of driving drunk is illegal. However, we usually find out that some whackjob had an arsenal only AFTER he kills a couple dozen people because we don't track ammo purchases or require registration of all firearms across the board.


But you only need cash to buy a car.
You do not nead a license or training or good health.
 
2012-12-17 03:42:11 PM

Insatiable Jesus: Is it wrong for me to take such pleasure in watching the GOP branding itself the Pro-School Massacre Party?

It fits nicely with the Pro-Rape, Pro-Greed and Pro-Torture planks in their platform. LOL. Enjoy GOP.


What have liberals done to stop rape greed and torture?
 
2012-12-17 03:42:41 PM

rufus-t-firefly: onyxruby: IlGreven: onyxruby: This issue has nothing to do with guns, they are the red herring.

People can keep saying this. It doesn't make it true. Even if a majority of people believe it, it doesn't make it true.

Just curious, do you try to get cars banned because of the very large number of people killed by them every year? This is a people issue, just like drunk driving.

Really, keep using the "CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!" argument. It definitely makes a good point - for more regulations on firearms. 

[i48.photobucket.com image 500x675]

See, a drunk driver can be caught before he kills anyone, because the mere act of driving drunk is illegal. However, we usually find out that some whackjob had an arsenal only AFTER he kills a couple dozen people because we don't track ammo purchases or require registration of all firearms across the board.


And at what point do you differentiate between the guy who legally owns lots of guns and ammo, and someone who's a whackjob?
 
2012-12-17 03:42:49 PM

rufus-t-firefly: Really, keep using the "CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!" argument. It definitely makes a good point - for more regulations on firearms.


I can buy a car and drive it through a crowded farmer's market without doing any of those things.
 
2012-12-17 03:43:17 PM

Joe Blowme: dittybopper: Joe Blowme: LOL now dem senators are crying about assault weapons bans, which still would have done nothing in this case as the killer used pistols. Never let a crisis go to waste.

Not to mention the fact that Connecticut has an assault weapons ban already. The rifle used was legal under that ban, apparently.

And yet not a peep about the guy in china who stabbed 20+ kids the same day? Its all the guns fault and if we only had more laws that only the sane follow we can avoid this kind of stuff.... derp


it doesn't count because they didn't die, or something.
 
2012-12-17 03:43:40 PM

Joe Blowme: LOL now dem senators are crying about assault weapons bans, which still would have done nothing in this case as the killer used pistols. Never let a crisis go to waste.


Never stop posting in ignorance.

Link

Authorities recovered three semi-automatic firearms next to Adam Lanza: a .223 caliber Bushmaster XM-15 rifle, a 10mm Glock handgun, and a 9mm SIG Sauer handgun...police say Lanza used the rifle against most of the victims. According to the medical examiner, all victims were shot with the same "long weapon" and were hit multiple times.
 
2012-12-17 03:44:12 PM
States with Extremely High Populations of Gun Owners(more than 50%)
•1. Wyoming - 59.7%
•2. Alaska - 57.8%
•3. Montana - 57.7%
•4. South Dakota - 56.6%
•5. West Virginia - 55.4%
•6. Mississippi - 55.3%
•6. Idaho - 55.3%
•6. Arkansas - 55.3%
•9. Alabama - 51.7%
•10. North Dakota - 50.7%
States with High Populations of Gun Owners
•11. Kentucky - 47.7%
•12. Wisconsin - 44.4% (Battleground state. See Wisconsin in 2012 Elections.)
•13. Louisiana - 44.1%
•14. Utah - 43.9%
•14. Tennessee - 43.9%
•16. Oklahoma - 42.9%
•16. Iowa - 42.9% (Battleground state. See Iowa in 2012 Elections.)
•18. South Carolina - 42.3%
•19. Kansas - 42.1%
•20. Vermont - 42.0%
•21. Missouri - 41.7% (Battleground state. See Missouri in 2012 Elections.)
•21. Minnesota - 41.7%
•23. North Carolina - 41.3% (Battleground state. See North Carolina in 2012 Elections.)
•24. Maine - 40.5%
•25. Georgia - 40.3%

Just the registered ones!
Wish Wish Wish
 
2012-12-17 03:45:16 PM

Insatiable Jesus: Is it wrong for me to take such pleasure in watching the GOP branding itself the Pro-School Massacre Party?

It fits nicely with the Pro-Rape, Pro-Greed and Pro-Torture planks in their platform. LOL. Enjoy GOP.


The most retarded FARKER since that "crangelous" dude. Top notch troll.
 
2012-12-17 03:46:06 PM
But the programs received a statement from the NRA declining to comment because details of the investigation into the shooting were still pending.

OMG, the NRA is acting responsibly? WTF?
 
2012-12-17 03:46:43 PM

Joe Blowme: Insatiable Jesus: Is it wrong for me to take such pleasure in watching the GOP branding itself the Pro-School Massacre Party?

It fits nicely with the Pro-Rape, Pro-Greed and Pro-Torture planks in their platform. LOL. Enjoy GOP.

The most retarded FARKER since that "crangelous" dude. Top notch troll.


He is. It's true.
 
2012-12-17 03:47:11 PM

rufus-t-firefly: Joe Blowme: LOL now dem senators are crying about assault weapons bans, which still would have done nothing in this case as the killer used pistols. Never let a crisis go to waste.

Never stop posting in ignorance.

Link

Authorities recovered three semi-automatic firearms next to Adam Lanza: a .223 caliber Bushmaster XM-15 rifle, a 10mm Glock handgun, and a 9mm SIG Sauer handgun...police say Lanza used the rifle against most of the victims. According to the medical examiner, all victims were shot with the same "long weapon" and were hit multiple times.


Forensics people get shiat wrong all the time....just look at the number of black people on death row.
 
2012-12-17 03:47:31 PM

Giltric: Insatiable Jesus: Is it wrong for me to take such pleasure in watching the GOP branding itself the Pro-School Massacre Party?

It fits nicely with the Pro-Rape, Pro-Greed and Pro-Torture planks in their platform. LOL. Enjoy GOP.

What have liberals done to stop rape greed and torture?



It's not about reality, it's about perceived reality. You see, we learned it by watching you. So have a seat and watch how the game you invented works when turned around on you. Find a talking point that outweighs the carnage of what just happened and the emotional connection a mojority of Americans have to this issue.

And since when the fark do you whiners care about American law? I thought you were all seceding to form your own right wing utopias.
 
2012-12-17 03:47:35 PM

styckx: p4p3rm4t3: .....

[img255.imageshack.us image 243x182]

[i.imgur.com image 400x334]


helllzzz ya (even if i am late)
global3.memecdn.com
 
2012-12-17 03:47:36 PM

Kit Fister: rufus-t-firefly: onyxruby: IlGreven: onyxruby: This issue has nothing to do with guns, they are the red herring.

People can keep saying this. It doesn't make it true. Even if a majority of people believe it, it doesn't make it true.

Just curious, do you try to get cars banned because of the very large number of people killed by them every year? This is a people issue, just like drunk driving.

Really, keep using the "CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!" argument. It definitely makes a good point - for more regulations on firearms. 

[i48.photobucket.com image 500x675]

See, a drunk driver can be caught before he kills anyone, because the mere act of driving drunk is illegal. However, we usually find out that some whackjob had an arsenal only AFTER he kills a couple dozen people because we don't track ammo purchases or require registration of all firearms across the board.

And at what point do you differentiate between the guy who legally owns lots of guns and ammo, and someone who's a whackjob?


Do you own a lot of guns? Fine. Did you buy a lot of guns and ammo in a short amount of time? Perhaps you need to be interviewed to find out if you're going through a divorce, or stopped taking your meds...

Perhaps a well-timed "Do you have any mentally ill people in your household? Are your weapons secured against others using the weapons without your knowledge?" might have helped prevent this particular massacre.
 
2012-12-17 03:48:15 PM

Dead for Tax Reasons: RexTalionis: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

Apparently, guns don't kill people, movies kill people.

No, it's the violent video games


It's the increasing paranoia of the mentally ill stoked by a sensastionalist media.
 
2012-12-17 03:51:34 PM

rufus-t-firefly: Are your weapons secured against others using the weapons without your knowledge?" might have helped prevent this particular massacre.


SO every gun owner should be given a check from the government to purchase a gun safe and if they dont use it charge them with a crime....problem solved.

All government spending is stimulus....something the democrats can get behind.
 
2012-12-17 03:51:55 PM

rufus-t-firefly: Joe Blowme: LOL now dem senators are crying about assault weapons bans, which still would have done nothing in this case as the killer used pistols. Never let a crisis go to waste.

Never stop posting in ignorance.

Link

Authorities recovered three semi-automatic firearms next to Adam Lanza: a .223 caliber Bushmaster XM-15 rifle, a 10mm Glock handgun, and a 9mm SIG Sauer handgun...police say Lanza used the rifle against most of the victims. According to the medical examiner, all victims were shot with the same "long weapon" and were hit multiple times.


My bad... still... how that ban on heroin working for ya?
 
2012-12-17 03:51:58 PM

Giltric: rufus-t-firefly: onyxruby: IlGreven: onyxruby: This issue has nothing to do with guns, they are the red herring.

People can keep saying this. It doesn't make it true. Even if a majority of people believe it, it doesn't make it true.

Just curious, do you try to get cars banned because of the very large number of people killed by them every year? This is a people issue, just like drunk driving.

Really, keep using the "CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!" argument. It definitely makes a good point - for more regulations on firearms. 

[i48.photobucket.com image 500x675]

See, a drunk driver can be caught before he kills anyone, because the mere act of driving drunk is illegal. However, we usually find out that some whackjob had an arsenal only AFTER he kills a couple dozen people because we don't track ammo purchases or require registration of all firearms across the board.

But you only need cash to buy a car.
You do not nead a license or training or good health.


Tax, title and registration need some kind of identification.

But, since you're pointing out some small details, I take it you're OK with requiring insurance and registration of all firearms? It's a start.
 
2012-12-17 03:52:38 PM
Yes, I guess they don't want the president of the organization, Mr. Wayne La Pierre, to, shall we say, shoot from the hip about this event. He has a tendency to come across as a real douche at times.
 
2012-12-17 03:54:55 PM

rufus-t-firefly: Kit Fister: rufus-t-firefly: onyxruby: IlGreven: onyxruby: This issue has nothing to do with guns, they are the red herring.

People can keep saying this. It doesn't make it true. Even if a majority of people believe it, it doesn't make it true.

Just curious, do you try to get cars banned because of the very large number of people killed by them every year? This is a people issue, just like drunk driving.

Really, keep using the "CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!" argument. It definitely makes a good point - for more regulations on firearms. 

[i48.photobucket.com image 500x675]

See, a drunk driver can be caught before he kills anyone, because the mere act of driving drunk is illegal. However, we usually find out that some whackjob had an arsenal only AFTER he kills a couple dozen people because we don't track ammo purchases or require registration of all firearms across the board.

And at what point do you differentiate between the guy who legally owns lots of guns and ammo, and someone who's a whackjob?

Do you own a lot of guns? Fine. Did you buy a lot of guns and ammo in a short amount of time? Perhaps you need to be interviewed to find out if you're going through a divorce, or stopped taking your meds...

Perhaps a well-timed "Do you have any mentally ill people in your household? Are your weapons secured against others using the weapons without your knowledge?" might have helped prevent this particular massacre.


I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.

I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).
 
2012-12-17 03:55:21 PM
cdn.smosh.com 
cause we could always use a bit of courtesy in these threads

/amirite?
 
2012-12-17 03:56:06 PM

rufus-t-firefly: Tax, title and registration need some kind of identification.

But, since you're pointing out some small details, I take it you're OK with requiring insurance and registration of all firearms? It's a start.


Would have prevented this how? It wouldn't.

Just say you want to incrementally make it harder and harder to acquire and keep firearms, resulting in an eventual ban.

We're on the internet, you can just come out with it.
 
2012-12-17 03:56:16 PM
hbk72777


Not sure exactly what your point is, but that middle picture is a power station.

/That is located at Pilgrim State Hospital
 
2012-12-17 03:56:48 PM

Joe Blowme: rufus-t-firefly: Joe Blowme: LOL now dem senators are crying about assault weapons bans, which still would have done nothing in this case as the killer used pistols. Never let a crisis go to waste.

Never stop posting in ignorance.

Link

Authorities recovered three semi-automatic firearms next to Adam Lanza: a .223 caliber Bushmaster XM-15 rifle, a 10mm Glock handgun, and a 9mm SIG Sauer handgun...police say Lanza used the rifle against most of the victims. According to the medical examiner, all victims were shot with the same "long weapon" and were hit multiple times.

My bad... still... how that ban on heroin working for ya?


So, you shift from being factually inaccurate to moving the goalposts? OK.

How how many mass murders by heroin overdose have you seen recently? Besides, if I'm stopped by a cop with heroin in my car, I'm going to jail. If I'm stopped with a couple of Bushmasters in my car, no problem (I'm in Texas - other states may be different). Assuming I'm just cited for speeding or let off with a warning, I'm free to go do whatever I was on my way to do before being stopped.
 
2012-12-17 03:56:55 PM

rufus-t-firefly: Tax, title and registration need some kind of identification.


Umm no....you do not need to do any of those things to own a car.......you do need to do that in case you are driving on public roads and get pulled over though.

Ever watch COPS?
 
2012-12-17 03:57:02 PM
Americans believe that if anyone under a certain age sees or hears about sex or nudity in music, movies, tv shows or video games the kids will be damaged for life. But violence will have no effect at all.

/Love is bad
//Violence is neutral
///Money is God
 
2012-12-17 03:57:27 PM

Kit Fister:


I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.

I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).


You take bi-polar meds and you claim to be healthy?
 
2012-12-17 03:58:01 PM

thomps: i thought gun ownership meant never having to run away from potential conflict


That's because you have no idea what gun ownership actually about.
 
2012-12-17 03:59:45 PM

Kit Fister: I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.

I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).


And this is where someone like me who passionately supports the RKBA says without snark that you should not own firearms.
 
2012-12-17 03:59:47 PM
Okay, being this guy would suck.

"The shooter killed two victims, and seriously injured a teenage girl, but upon seeing an armed citizen ready to shoot back, Roberts ended the killing there by taking his own life.

As the KGW report notes, even police in Oregon have failed to acknowledge Meli's role, with the Sheriff crediting only local officers and deputies with "hunting down" the shooter. In reality, the shooter was already dead when police found him."

http://www.infowars.com/armed-citizen-not-police-prevented-massacre-i n -oregon/
 
2012-12-17 04:00:43 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Fox News?
 
2012-12-17 04:02:47 PM

Kit Fister: I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).



I wonder if it is even legal for you to own one gun. I think both Fed and State laws prohibit the mentally ill from possessing guns, right? Are you admitting, in an open forum, that you are mentally ill and a gun nut?
 
2012-12-17 04:04:57 PM

rufus-t-firefly: Joe Blowme: rufus-t-firefly: Joe Blowme: LOL now dem senators are crying about assault weapons bans, which still would have done nothing in this case as the killer used pistols. Never let a crisis go to waste.

Never stop posting in ignorance.

Link

Authorities recovered three semi-automatic firearms next to Adam Lanza: a .223 caliber Bushmaster XM-15 rifle, a 10mm Glock handgun, and a 9mm SIG Sauer handgun...police say Lanza used the rifle against most of the victims. According to the medical examiner, all victims were shot with the same "long weapon" and were hit multiple times.

My bad... still... how that ban on heroin working for ya?

So, you shift from being factually inaccurate to moving the goalposts? OK.

How how many mass murders by heroin overdose have you seen recently? Besides, if I'm stopped by a cop with heroin in my car, I'm going to jail. If I'm stopped with a couple of Bushmasters in my car, no problem (I'm in Texas - other states may be different). Assuming I'm just cited for speeding or let off with a warning, I'm free to go do whatever I was on my way to do before being stopped.


No asshat i was going off the info yesterday which said he used 2 pistols
 
2012-12-17 04:05:17 PM

Giltric: Kit Fister: I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.

I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).

And this is where someone like me who passionately supports the RKBA says without snark that you should not own firearms.


^^^^^^^^^^
Something we can all agree on!
 
2012-12-17 04:05:35 PM

rufus-t-firefly: Giltric: rufus-t-firefly: onyxruby: IlGreven: onyxruby: This issue has nothing to do with guns, they are the red herring.

People can keep saying this. It doesn't make it true. Even if a majority of people believe it, it doesn't make it true.

Just curious, do you try to get cars banned because of the very large number of people killed by them every year? This is a people issue, just like drunk driving.

Really, keep using the "CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!" argument. It definitely makes a good point - for more regulations on firearms. 

[i48.photobucket.com image 500x675]

See, a drunk driver can be caught before he kills anyone, because the mere act of driving drunk is illegal. However, we usually find out that some whackjob had an arsenal only AFTER he kills a couple dozen people because we don't track ammo purchases or require registration of all firearms across the board.

But you only need cash to buy a car.
You do not nead a license or training or good health.

Tax, title and registration need some kind of identification.

But, since you're pointing out some small details, I take it you're OK with requiring insurance and registration of all firearms? It's a start.


I think registration sounds good, until you realize that it still only traces back to the legal owner after the fact (which can be done now, since if you have the gun, you can trace the serial number back to last person to fill out the 4473 paperwork where it was purchased.) Takes more leg work than running the serial number in a database, but it makes it far less likely to be abused.

And, insurance against what? Accidental discharge? I'm pretty sure that firearms used against a person intentionally are either going to be done so criminally (in which case people can sue and take whatever you own), or legitimately in cases of self defense (in which case, depending on state law, you're not liable for any civil action anyway).

So, in the exceedingly rare cases of accidental discharge resulting in death or injury, what, exactly, does it accomplish? Or are you expecting that insurance companies will do for you what the government might not (make costs so prohibitively expensive, you're passing a defacto ban on them for anyone but the wealthy who can afford it?)

Better to attack the problem from the identification and treatment of mentally ill individuals, along with a review of exactly what HAS changed given the recent, marked upswing in these incidents (since this seems to be a frequent phenomenon only within the past 20 years or so).

Further, I think gun owners would be happy, or at least accepting, of paying for the treatment programs by adding, say, a 5-10% tax on the firearm purchase and/or bullets.

A lot less likely to fark over lawful gun owners and provide little to no effect on criminals, and a lot more likely to make a difference.

While we're on the subject, too, how about we legalize drugs and implement programs to help people with addiction problems? Considering that about 80% of all firearm-related violence occurs in drug-related incidents, this alone would have a much larger impact on violent crime in this country. Think of all the money we'd save on incarceration and such, too.

Hell, with some of the money coming in from taxing the newly-legal drugs, we can probably pay to buy up and convert some of these prisons into mental health treatment centers, since they're already there.

Finally, I have no problems with requirements to keep firearms stored securely in a safe or other locked container. Plenty of compliant devices exist that even allow for quick access to them the event of a break-in, and when not in use, this prevents them from being readily available to thieves.

Oh! Here's an idea, how about, with all the extra manpower and time available after we stop sending cops on drug busts, we have them available to patrol schools and shopping malls, on the off chance that they'll be there to stop something like this from happening?
 
2012-12-17 04:05:35 PM

Giltric: Kit Fister: I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.

I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).

And this is where someone like me who passionately supports the RKBA says without snark that you should not own firearms.


How would this be enforced? We're basically talking about establishing second class citizens and annexing medical records by the government; a maintained by a central database most logically operated by the DEA, that monitors a new schedule of prescriptions (antipsychotics, etc) that when prescribed strip the ability to own firearms. I see no other way to do it, if it should be done.
 
2012-12-17 04:06:33 PM

jaybeezey: thomps: i thought gun ownership meant never having to run away from potential conflict

That's because you have no idea what gun ownership actually about.


so shoot me
 
2012-12-17 04:06:59 PM

Insatiable Jesus: Kit Fister:


I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.

I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).

You take bi-polar meds and you claim to be healthy?


Blood Pressure, moron. :)
 
2012-12-17 04:08:08 PM

Giltric: Kit Fister: I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.

I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).

And this is where someone like me who passionately supports the RKBA says without snark that you should not own firearms.


*sigh* BLOOD PRESSURE, not BIPOLAR.
 
2012-12-17 04:08:45 PM

Giltric: Insatiable Jesus: Is it wrong for me to take such pleasure in watching the GOP branding itself the Pro-School Massacre Party?

It fits nicely with the Pro-Rape, Pro-Greed and Pro-Torture planks in their platform. LOL. Enjoy GOP.

What have liberals done to stop rape greed and torture?


Oppose the GOP.
 
2012-12-17 04:09:30 PM

Insatiable Jesus: Kit Fister: I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).


I wonder if it is even legal for you to own one gun. I think both Fed and State laws prohibit the mentally ill from possessing guns, right? Are you admitting, in an open forum, that you are mentally ill and a gun nut?


I like how you bolded how many rounds he shoots. That's peanuts for many enthusiasts and competitive shooters.

Anyways, when anyone buys a gun from a dealer:

_____________________________________________________________________ _ ____________________________________
Federal Categories of Persons Prohibited From Receiving

A delay response from the NICS Section indicates the subject of the background check has been matched with either a state or federal potentially prohibiting record containing a similar name and/or similar descriptive features (name, sex, race, date of birth, state of residence, social security number, height, weight, or place of birth). The federally prohibiting criteria are as follows:

A person who has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year or any state offense classified by the state as a misdemeanor and is punishable by a term of imprisonment of more than two years.
Persons who are fugitives of justice-for example, the subject of an active felony or misdemeanor warrant.
An unlawful user and/or an addict of any controlled substance; for example, a person convicted for the use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year; or a person with multiple arrests for the use or possession of a controlled substance within the past five years with the most recent arrest occurring within the past year; or a person found through a drug test to use a controlled substance unlawfully, provided the test was administered within the past year.
A person adjudicated mental defective or involuntarily committed to a mental institution or incompetent to handle own affairs, including dispositions to criminal charges of found not guilty by reason of insanity or found incompetent to stand trial.
A person who, being an alien, is illegally or unlawfully in the United States.
A person who, being an alien except as provided in subsection (y) (2), has been admitted to the United States under a non-immigrant visa.
A person dishonorably discharged from the United States Armed Forces.
A person who has renounced his/her United States citizenship.
The subject of a protective order issued after a hearing in which the respondent had notice that restrains them from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such partner. This does not include ex parte orders.
A person convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime which includes the use or attempted use of physical force or threatened use of a deadly weapon and the defendant was the spouse, former spouse, parent, guardian of the victim, by a person with whom the victim shares a child in common, by a person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited in the past with the victim as a spouse, parent, guardian or similar situation to a spouse, parent or guardian of the victim.
A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.
 
2012-12-17 04:09:35 PM

IMIX: Giltric: Insatiable Jesus: Is it wrong for me to take such pleasure in watching the GOP branding itself the Pro-School Massacre Party?

It fits nicely with the Pro-Rape, Pro-Greed and Pro-Torture planks in their platform. LOL. Enjoy GOP.

What have liberals done to stop rape greed and torture?

Oppose the GOP.


Psst, gitmo is still open, and we're still killing civilians with drones, so...not so much?
 
2012-12-17 04:10:09 PM

Kit Fister: Giltric: Kit Fister: I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.

I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).

And this is where someone like me who passionately supports the RKBA says without snark that you should not own firearms.

*sigh* BLOOD PRESSURE, not BIPOLAR.


Well than I appologize.

Charlie Mike.....
 
2012-12-17 04:11:26 PM

Kit Fister: Giltric: Kit Fister: I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.

I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).

And this is where someone like me who passionately supports the RKBA says without snark that you should not own firearms.

*sigh* BLOOD PRESSURE, not BIPOLAR.



Based on your posts, it could have gone either way.
 
2012-12-17 04:12:30 PM

david_gaithersburg: Giltric: Kit Fister: I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.

I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).

And this is where someone like me who passionately supports the RKBA says without snark that you should not own firearms.

^^^^^^^^^^
Something we can all agree on!


I'm going to assume thats "blood pressure" and not "bipolar."

Beyond that, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY GUNS YOU OWN. 
 
2012-12-17 04:13:05 PM

IMIX: Giltric: Insatiable Jesus: Is it wrong for me to take such pleasure in watching the GOP branding itself the Pro-School Massacre Party?

It fits nicely with the Pro-Rape, Pro-Greed and Pro-Torture planks in their platform. LOL. Enjoy GOP.

What have liberals done to stop rape greed and torture?

Oppose the GOP.

.
But if all of the massacres and daily drive bys are happening in progressive utopias, wouldn't it make sense to ban anyone registered as a Democrat from owning a gun? We already know who you are and where you live, so its not like we need to create a new database, and you already don't want the guns you obviously have. This seem like a win-win all the way around.
 
2012-12-17 04:13:12 PM

Giltric: rufus-t-firefly: Tax, title and registration need some kind of identification.

Umm no....you do not need to do any of those things to own a car.......you do need to do that in case you are driving on public roads and get pulled over though.


The anti-regulation guys are the ones who love to talk about cars. The point is that cars ARE regulated - if you take that car onto the road, you can be stopped for not having any of those items. A gun is a different story. Ever hear of someone trying to conceal a car and take it inside a shopping mall?

And the car is registered regardless. Even if you don't transfer the title. Of course, the person with the title in his name is responsible for the car after you buy it...

So let's just start with that first item - make sure every firearm is registered with an owner and location. If that weapon is used in a crime, you are responsible.
 
2012-12-17 04:13:31 PM

Jarhead_h: Okay, being this guy would suck.

"The shooter killed two victims, and seriously injured a teenage girl, but upon seeing an armed citizen ready to shoot back, Roberts ended the killing there by taking his own life.

As the KGW report notes, even police in Oregon have failed to acknowledge Meli's role, with the Sheriff crediting only local officers and deputies with "hunting down" the shooter. In reality, the shooter was already dead when police found him."

http://www.infowars.com/armed-citizen-not-police-prevented-massacre-i n -oregon/


Is he now claiming to have "confronted" the shooter? Because he originally said only that although he had the shooter in his sight, he stayed hidden and didn't fire because he was afraid of hitting a bystander. Various right wing publications used headlines implying that he confronted the shooter, but the actual stories said no such thing.
 
2012-12-17 04:14:26 PM

Insatiable Jesus: Kit Fister: Giltric: Kit Fister: I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.

I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).

And this is where someone like me who passionately supports the RKBA says without snark that you should not own firearms.

*sigh* BLOOD PRESSURE, not BIPOLAR.


Based on your posts, it could have gone either way.


Fair point, however, while i do see a therapist for being mildly autistic (aspergers) and occasional depression, nothing nearly so horrible.

I've also already made arrangements with my wife and family that should I get worse, my therapist will call and notify them, and they will quietly remove the firearms from my home before I even get there.

Further, if anything, I tend to be self-destructive and not violent, so I have figured to voluntarily disarm and get rid of my guns at the point where my depression gets bad enough to even start considering violence or suicide.

I guess i'm one of the few people out there that's at least willing to own up to the fact that, should i have a problem, I need to have a contingency plan.
 
2012-12-17 04:15:44 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: david_gaithersburg: Giltric: Kit Fister: I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.

I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).

And this is where someone like me who passionately supports the RKBA says without snark that you should not own firearms.

^^^^^^^^^^
Something we can all agree on!

I'm going to assume thats "blood pressure" and not "bipolar."

Beyond that, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MANY GUNS YOU OWN.


Actually, I just recounted, I'm up to 18. Added a few to my collection recently.
 
2012-12-17 04:16:59 PM

Kit Fister: Insatiable Jesus: Kit Fister: Giltric: Kit Fister: I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.

I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).

And this is where someone like me who passionately supports the RKBA says without snark that you should not own firearms.

*sigh* BLOOD PRESSURE, not BIPOLAR.


Based on your posts, it could have gone either way.

Fair point, however, while i do see a therapist for being mildly autistic (aspergers) and occasional depression, nothing nearly so horrible.

I've also already made arrangements with my wife and family that should I get worse, my therapist will call and notify them, and they will quietly remove the firearms from my home before I even get there.

Further, if anything, I tend to be self-destructive and not violent, so I have figured to voluntarily disarm and get rid of my guns at the point where my depression gets bad enough to even start considering violence or suicide.

I guess i'm one of the few people out there that's at least willing to own up to the fact that, should i have a problem, I need to have a contingency plan.


29.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-12-17 04:17:13 PM

USP .45: Giltric: Kit Fister: I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.

I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).

And this is where someone like me who passionately supports the RKBA says without snark that you should not own firearms.

How would this be enforced? We're basically talking about establishing second class citizens and annexing medical records by the government; a maintained by a central database most logically operated by the DEA, that monitors a new schedule of prescriptions (antipsychotics, etc) that when prescribed strip the ability to own firearms. I see no other way to do it, if it should be done.


State laws currently prohibit people diagnosed with certain conditions from getting a drivers license.
 
2012-12-17 04:18:46 PM

Kit Fister: I've also already made arrangements with my wife and family that should I get worse, my therapist will call and notify them, and they will quietly remove the firearms from my home before I even get there.


Do THEY know how many guns you own?
 
2012-12-17 04:19:35 PM

someonelse: USP .45: Giltric: Kit Fister: I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.

I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).

And this is where someone like me who passionately supports the RKBA says without snark that you should not own firearms.

How would this be enforced? We're basically talking about establishing second class citizens and annexing medical records by the government; a maintained by a central database most logically operated by the DEA, that monitors a new schedule of prescriptions (antipsychotics, etc) that when prescribed strip the ability to own firearms. I see no other way to do it, if it should be done.

State laws currently prohibit people diagnosed with certain conditions from getting a drivers license.


Driving is not a constitutional rights issue like medical privacy and self-defense.
 
2012-12-17 04:21:19 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Kit Fister: I've also already made arrangements with my wife and family that should I get worse, my therapist will call and notify them, and they will quietly remove the firearms from my home before I even get there.

Do THEY know how many guns you own?


Yes. I keep an FFL-style A&D book in the gun safe that logs serial numbers, type, and source of all of my firearms purchases. Plus, they have the combinations and keys where appropriate. Further, I keep a backup copy of my records with no less than two law enforcement friends, in case of fire, theft, or some other loss to my records. I'm considering updating it to be a Google Doc spreadsheet that my friends and family can access, so it's electronic and there's not so much mailing of papers and such when things change.

Finally, all of my firearms not in use are stored with ammo stored separately (as in, kept in a dry box in my shop about 100 yards away from the house where the gun safe is).
 
2012-12-17 04:21:37 PM
Too many folk are not quite making it over the Cuckoo's Nest.

//challenge accepted?
 
2012-12-17 04:23:06 PM
www.mattbors.com
 
2012-12-17 04:27:20 PM

Zeno-25: dittybopper: It's a smart move, so as to remove the possibility of comments by idiots who may belong to the NRA (and every organization has idiots, the NRA is not immune to that).

Probably this. I'm sure we will see a full-throated defense of the current status quo on gun control once all of the emotions calm down a bit.

After all, reinstating the AWB wouldn't have prevented this tragedy, or any of the recent other ones. Most of these massacres are comitted with semi-auto handguns, and good luck getting a blanket ban on any semi-autos past the Supreme Court anytime in the next couple decades.

A fundamental change in the way our society approaches mental illness is the only thing that could have prevented this. We need professionals in schools who can evaluate at-risk individuals, maybe create a blacklist of people with serious illnesses which would be integrated into the background check process. It would have to be pretty invasive, though, as even just putting those who have been involuntarily comitted on such a list wouldn't have stopped most of these tragedies.

We don't have a gun control problem, we have a crazy control problem.


You would be granting an enormous amount of power to the mental health professionals to lock people up without trials. One psychologist's dangerous sociopath would just be a quirky kid to another. If you are thinking that these diagnoses are well-defined and well agreed-upon you would be wrong. Remember how not so long ago homosexuality was considered a disease? Hell, regular medical doctors often disagree on diagnoses for physical diseases. It's thousands of times worse trying to define something as nebulous as mental health.
 
2012-12-17 04:27:59 PM

Giltric: Insatiable Jesus: Is it wrong for me to take such pleasure in watching the GOP branding itself the Pro-School Massacre Party?

It fits nicely with the Pro-Rape, Pro-Greed and Pro-Torture planks in their platform. LOL. Enjoy GOP.

What have liberals done to stop rape greed and torture?


Well with the exception of their families and well connect friends in Hollywood, they are trying their hardest to make us all equally poor and dependent on the govt. I guess that's trying to eliminate the greed part.
 
2012-12-17 04:29:30 PM

Kazan: the answer to his question is MEDIA COVERAGE

the way the media obsesses and sensationalizes these tragedies is creating more of them Link


Yep. You want to be the most famous "bad-ass" in the country for 15 minutes, go kill a bunch of people. Everybody will know who you are! What unknown loser could want more? Of course, never releasing their name or picture so that they die anonymously is out of the question, that would be censorship...

PreMortem: Court ordered mandatory psychological exam, then involuntary institutionalisation.

We are allowing too many whack jobs to roam freely.


Well, you see they have rights. And the rights of a few dangerous whack jobs are more important than the constitutionally guaranteed rights of millions and millions of law abiding citizens
 
2012-12-17 04:30:17 PM

EViLTeW: Luckily, before guns were so prevalent the US was a quiet and peaceful place where there were no crazies.

Except for the arsonists, and the bombers, and the people driving vehicles through crowds, and the serial killers.. so I guess bad people find a way regardless of firearm access.


this poses the interesting question of what this crazy would have done instead ...
Gotten some homemade explosives and propane tanks and chemicals and god knows what.
And then filled up a truck and crashed it through the schools doors.
KABOOM

OR easier still
some chains and locks
some gas cans
locked all the exits
spread the gas everywhere
torched the building

shudder
 
2012-12-17 04:34:33 PM

USP .45:
Federal Categories of Persons Prohibited From Receiving
...
A person adjudicated mental defective or involuntarily committed to a mental institution or incompetent to handle own affairs


Well, thank goodness. I feel safer already.

So, if you voluntarily commit yourself, you can have all the guns you want. Or, if you're just psychotic but medicated, you can buy weapons - we just have to hope that you keep taking your meds. Oh, wait - that won't even be on record, so anyone with antisocial personality disorder is free to head down to a gun dealer and buy whatever he wants. No interviews, no references, nothing. So long as he has no criminal record and hasn't been involuntarily committed, he's good to go.

When you look at what we know about Sandy Hook, we know that the laws as they are did jack shiat. Maybe if his mother had to answer a few questions like "Does anyone in your home have a form of mental illness?" those guns would not have been available to him. Of course, if she was stockpiling weapons and ammo for some apocalyptic event as has been reported, then the mental issue should have been caught in the purchaser, not in the home.

Link

Marsha said [Nancy] had turned her home 'into a fortress'. She added: 'Nancy had a survivalist philosophy which is why she was stockpiling guns. She had them for defense.

'She was stockpiling food. She grew up on a farm in New Hampshire. She was skilled with guns. We talked about preppers and preparing for the economy collapsing.'


---

Two days before the massacre, Lanza went to a sporting goods store in Danbury, Connecticut, and tried to buy a rifle. He was turned down because he did not want to undergo a background check or abide by the state's waiting period for gun sales.

Link

But, he had the weapons at home, so he was free to do what he wanted to with them. Hell, under Connecticut law he couldn't have the pistols since he was 20 years old, but the Bushmaster was OK.

Adam Lanza was too young to legally own or carry handguns under Connecticut law.

The system works!
 
2012-12-17 04:35:37 PM

Kit Fister: I keep an FFL-style A&D book in the gun safe that logs serial numbers, type, and source of all of my firearms purchases.


Look, if you REALLY love your family and you REALLY think you need a contingency plan then you REALLY need to get another hobby. If you get worse likely the first thing you'll do is stop seeing your therapist so your family will get no notice.

Shoot with a friend, continue to advocate for 2A rights, Fark til your eyes bleed and take up archery and paintball.

Get rid of those guns.
 
2012-12-17 04:37:55 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Canada watches the SAME movies and TV shows. Mass killings virtually non existent.
 
2012-12-17 04:43:17 PM

rufus-t-firefly: Well, thank goodness. I feel safer already.

So, if you voluntarily commit yourself, you can have all the guns you want. Or, if you're just psychotic but medicated, you can buy weapons - we just have to hope that you keep taking your meds. Oh, wait - that won't even be on record, so anyone with antisocial personality disorder is free to head down to a gun dealer and buy whatever he wants.


What I would suggest is the prescription information pharmacies are required to store be added to the current state background check databases. Since both name of the prescribed, address, and drug are stored - if it's an anti-psychotic, that address (if not both name and address) will be flagged when an attempt to purchase is made. That way A. the person prescribed the anti-psychotic cannot purchase B. the household cannot purchase (you have to provide proof of residency when buying a firearm from a dealer). 

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) is a point-of-sale system for determining eligibility to purchase a firearm in the United States of America. Federal Firearms License (FFL) holders are generally required by law to use the NICS to determine if it is legal to sell a firearm to a prospective purchaser. The NICS determines if the buyer is prohibited from buying a firearm under the Gun Control Act of 1968. It is linked to the National Crime Information Center and the Interstate Identification Index among other databases maintained by the FBI.
 
2012-12-17 04:45:03 PM

vudutek: wow, 10lbofbatshiat got a lot of bites.
8.5/10


Trolling an NRA thread days after Sandy Hook should give you a handicap of -5000.
 
2012-12-17 04:47:37 PM

rufus-t-firefly:
Do you own a lot of guns? Fine. Did you buy a lot of guns and ammo in a short amount of time? Perhaps you need to be interviewed to find out if you're going through a divorce, or stopped taking your meds...

Perhaps a well-timed "Do you have any mentally ill people in your household? Are your weapons secured against others using the weapons without your knowledge?" might have helped prevent this particular massacre.


Jesus. Is this really the kind of world that you want to live in?
 
2012-12-17 04:49:02 PM

Altitude5280: Canada watches the SAME movies and TV shows. Mass killings virtually non existent.


Um, we've had a few. This is a mental-health issue - not necessarily an "American" one.
 
2012-12-17 04:53:40 PM

IlGreven: How many cars were used for even single murders last year


A quick google search shows more than 10,000 people were murdered by drunks with cars in 2010.
 
2012-12-17 04:56:02 PM
Forget banning assault rifles. We need to ban hands, fists and feet. They're the real killers. They kill twice as many people as rifles do.

i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-17 04:59:22 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Kit Fister: I keep an FFL-style A&D book in the gun safe that logs serial numbers, type, and source of all of my firearms purchases.

Look, if you REALLY love your family and you REALLY think you need a contingency plan then you REALLY need to get another hobby. If you get worse likely the first thing you'll do is stop seeing your therapist so your family will get no notice.

Shoot with a friend, continue to advocate for 2A rights, Fark til your eyes bleed and take up archery and paintball.

Get rid of those guns.


No. When it becomes an issue, I will. I believe in being overprepared hence the contingency plan. Getting a little down because of stress isn't something I see getting much worse.
 
2012-12-17 04:59:54 PM
ah the NRA cowards....

they were probably too busy humping Zombie Heston
 
2012-12-17 05:00:29 PM

TypoFlyspray: Course, when the character assassination of Joe Scarborough beings (which it surely will anon), you'll be able, if you're very good at this sort of thing, to follow the funding right back to the NRA.


I don't know about character assasination, but I saw his antics this morning as I got ready for work. He and his band of idiots had no idea what they were talking about as far as guns are concerned, despite numerous claims of growing up around guns and hunting. He deserves to be called out on saying the AR-15 SEMIautomatic rifle will fire off 30 rounds per second. The fully automatic military version will only fire off 13rps.

Other gems included calling a Glock an assault weapon (and I swear I heard them mention that it too has a 30rps rate of fire) and mentioning that people can buy miniguns. Someone needs to bombard their page with links to the Cracked article which explain why the minigun is a moot point, between weight and the fact that no average human can carry and fire the son of a biatch, despite what they saw in Predator. There's also the fact that they're rare and run almost half a million bucks.

At least Mika had the sense to accept that she knows shiat about guns and sat there silent and scowling. Of course, unless she's reading a teleprompter or stuttering emotionally in disagreement, that's all she seems to do anyway.

Honestly, after I heard Wolf Blitzer ask someone "Do hunters need semiautomatic rifles to hunt?" yesterday, I knew the derp was gonna be stronger on MSNBC. I just had no idea I was gonna end up all:

a0.twimg.com

Don't get me wrong, I fully expected the gun control people to go off the deep end, but I had hoped that after the years of ridicule over their issues with getting their facts straight, they would've done some god damned research this time. Instead, they sound more ridiculous than ever. Yes, it's a tragedy and people on both sides are emotional, but for the love of god, be rational and make sure your argument is backed by facts, not bullshiat and hyperbole.
 
2012-12-17 05:02:51 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Dooms Day idiots - you know, MORONS with a "cause".
Fear of a black man in the white house.
The media whipping these people into a frenzy.

Have you watched that reality crap AxMen? They feature this case of arrested development that carries and uses what looks and sounds like a .44mag. One week he was agitated over something and discharged it into the ground emptying the cylinder. Another week he was busily shooting a tree to knock it down and then using the barrel as a lever to pry the trunk off the stump.

The moron in the gun shop sees this and thinks it's "Reality" and it's okay to do this. The mental patient see's this and feels they can do it too. A 10 second blurb in the beginning "some actions portrayed in this show blah blah blah" isn't going to register with these people. It's just like the FBEEEYE warning, who reads that?

Don't think this is the case? Ask yourself - why do advertisers pay BILLIONS of dollars every year to advertise on TV. It's because people believe it.

It's not the only reason but it's a start
 
2012-12-17 05:04:44 PM

rufus-t-firefly: Really, keep using the "CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!" argument. It definitely makes a good point - for more regulations on firearms


Hey, let's use that same logic to regulate free speech and religion! If you think cars have killed a lot of people you should see the body counts that have come from religious disputes and ideological differences. Considering that those are some of the biggest drivers of wars right up there with resource fights, it should be easy to justify regulating free speech, right?

Do you have another chart just like your car chart you can use to justify regulating free speech and religion? Quite a few countries on this planet have done this already and I'm sure you can find source material pretty easily.
 
2012-12-17 05:05:34 PM

onyxruby: rufus-t-firefly: Really, keep using the "CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!" argument. It definitely makes a good point - for more regulations on firearms

Hey, let's use that same logic to regulate free speech and religion! If you think cars have killed a lot of people you should see the body counts that have come from religious disputes and ideological differences. Considering that those are some of the biggest drivers of wars right up there with resource fights, it should be easy to justify regulating free speech, right?

Do you have another chart just like your car chart you can use to justify regulating free speech and religion? Quite a few countries on this planet have done this already and I'm sure you can find source material pretty easily.


you don't neeeeeed a YouTube account.
 
2012-12-17 05:07:53 PM

Kit Fister: When it becomes an issue, I will.


Too late.

You're being selfish.

Grow up.
 
2012-12-17 05:11:18 PM

TypoFlyspray: brnt00: Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy. But let's keep derping about gun control.

You're never going to get all the guns away from the people who have no business having the power to kill at a distance, and you're never going to identify all the violently crazy early enough to keep them from acting on it. SO, given that it is relatively easy to get a gun and given that it is relatively had to get someone institutionalized for violent insanity (until they actually kill someone) perhaps it's not a matter off either well funded national healthcare (including comprehensive mental healthcare) and Removing the stigma associated with using mental healthcare services, OR some common sense gun control, but rather both? Particularly if the latter is informed by the former?

Characterizing what's being seriously discussed regarding gun control right now as Derpery across the board is failing to consider that a lot of the suggestions out there are reasonable by any sense, and itself verges on Derp.

Can anyone really say now that the Gun Show loophole should remain open?


I would tend to agree. But I feel like with the political climate the way it is, there's no chance in hell that any new gun control laws are going to get passed, just look at the resistance in the Fark threads. Looking at this particular situation, the guns were legally purchased by the mother. Apart from an all out ban on semi automatic weapons, I don't know what kind of new gun laws could have prevented this. A law that says she has to turn in the guns since a person that lives with her has been diagnosed with a board line personality disorder? I just don't know the answer. What I do know, is that had the parents or someone else encouraged and assisted him to get the help he needed, and that help was well trained and not over burdened by other cases, I don't think we would be here today.

For the record, I personally don't know why anyone should need anything other than a bolt action rifle or breech loader shotgun for anything. But it'll be a cold day in hell before everything else gets outlawed.
 
2012-12-17 05:15:27 PM

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Kit Fister: When it becomes an issue, I will.

Too late.

You're being selfish.

Grow up.


So judgemental. How about you allow me and my physician decide what issues I have? Why is it selfish for me to continue with my hobby when I'm not a danger to anyone and according to my psychologist healthy and well adjusted aside from stress-related depression?

Anyway, I'm a perfectly cromulent adult who is self aware, but thanks for your medial opinion doc.
 
2012-12-17 05:17:19 PM
Also, since my wife is notified of my appointments (I suck at scheduling and remembering appointments) she's know if I stopped going.
 
2012-12-17 05:18:10 PM

rufus-t-firefly: But, he had the weapons at home, so he was free to do what he wanted to with them. Hell, under Connecticut law he couldn't have the pistols since he was 20 years old, but the Bushmaster was OK.

Adam Lanza was too young to legally own or carry handguns under Connecticut law.

The system works!


If you seen my other posts, I support gun ownership, even the scary black guns. However, I do think we should apply the laws regarding handguns to all semi-auto shotguns and rifles as well. 21 years old, background check prior to purchase, etc.
 
2012-12-17 05:19:15 PM

DrewCurtisJr: brnt00: Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy.

mental health care isn't magic. Depending on the condition the success rate isn't that great. And all sources I've read seem to indicate that this was a well off family, who could have afforded mental health care if they wanted it.


I agree. It's not magic. And from what's coming out about the family, who knows if they would have even let him talk to a mental health counselor or encouraged him to. But in so many of these cases, I feel like if the shooter would have been encouraged and able to talk to someone, it could have been avoided, or the counselor could have seen these things coming and alerted the authorities (in line with hipaa of course). It may not be magic, and it's not an end all be all, but it's certainly part of the equation. Gun control can be discussed day and night, and I highly doubt much will change. But this is a part of the puzzle that's not being adequately addressed and can certainly help be part of the solution.

/disclaimer: girlfriend is a mental health counselor, so I might be a bit biased.
 
2012-12-17 05:19:40 PM

mizchief: rufus-t-firefly: But, he had the weapons at home, so he was free to do what he wanted to with them. Hell, under Connecticut law he couldn't have the pistols since he was 20 years old, but the Bushmaster was OK.

Adam Lanza was too young to legally own or carry handguns under Connecticut law.

The system works!

If you seen my other posts, I support gun ownership, even the scary black guns. However, I do think we should apply the laws regarding handguns to all semi-auto shotguns and rifles as well. 21 years old, background check prior to purchase, etc.


But all purchases of firearms require a background check, even long guns. And long guns require you to be 18. What difference will those three years make?
 
2012-12-17 05:22:10 PM

brnt00: For the record, I personally don't know why anyone should need anything other than a bolt action rifle or breech loader shotgun for anything. But it'll be a cold day in hell before everything else gets outlawed.


I sincerely hope you don't have to find out first hand. Your argument is basically the same as "i don't know why anyone would use a gun for anything but hunting" as those are pretty much the only practical use of bolt actions and breach loaders.
 
2012-12-17 05:22:34 PM

Zulu_as_Kono: brnt00: But let's keep derping about gun control.

High-capacity magazines - for when shooting a first grader ten times isn't enough!


Hey, I'm with you. Personally I think anything other than bolt action rifles and breech loading shotguns (double barrels) should be banned. But given the way things are, that will never happen, just like outlawing of high capacity magazines.
 
2012-12-17 05:25:00 PM

mizchief: brnt00: For the record, I personally don't know why anyone should need anything other than a bolt action rifle or breech loader shotgun for anything. But it'll be a cold day in hell before everything else gets outlawed.

I sincerely hope you don't have to find out first hand. Your argument is basically the same as "i don't know why anyone would use a gun for anything but hunting" as those are pretty much the only practical use of bolt actions and breach loaders.


They're perfectly usable for home defense and sport shooting as well.
 
2012-12-17 05:26:56 PM

Insatiable Jesus: Kit Fister: I take BP meds, otherwise i'm healthy. I own, probably, 16 or 17 guns, combination of pistols, rifles, shotguns, etc.I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).


I wonder if it is even legal for you to own one gun. I think both Fed and State laws prohibit the mentally ill from possessing guns, right? Are you admitting, in an open forum, that you are mentally ill and a gun nut?


Since when are blood pressure meds a problem in this regard?
 
2012-12-17 05:28:51 PM

EViLTeW: Youtube is pro-marine? pro-invasion-of-Iraq?
Throw me a bone here, I'm trying to understand how Youtube and the NRA are comparable in these two situations.


Whoosh.

Hint: The NRA closed their FB page to comments to avoid idiocy.
 
2012-12-17 05:28:54 PM

megarian: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

Homosexual atheist democrat pro-abortion single mother fetuses.


Stop. You are making me hungry.
 
2012-12-17 05:29:47 PM

Kit Fister: mizchief: rufus-t-firefly: But, he had the weapons at home, so he was free to do what he wanted to with them. Hell, under Connecticut law he couldn't have the pistols since he was 20 years old, but the Bushmaster was OK.

Adam Lanza was too young to legally own or carry handguns under Connecticut law.

The system works!

If you seen my other posts, I support gun ownership, even the scary black guns. However, I do think we should apply the laws regarding handguns to all semi-auto shotguns and rifles as well. 21 years old, background check prior to purchase, etc.

But all purchases of firearms require a background check, even long guns. And long guns require you to be 18. What difference will those three years make?


Thanks, my info was outdated, didn't think background checks were required for long guns.
 
2012-12-17 05:30:55 PM

brnt00: mizchief: brnt00: For the record, I personally don't know why anyone should need anything other than a bolt action rifle or breech loader shotgun for anything. But it'll be a cold day in hell before everything else gets outlawed.

I sincerely hope you don't have to find out first hand. Your argument is basically the same as "i don't know why anyone would use a gun for anything but hunting" as those are pretty much the only practical use of bolt actions and breach loaders.

They're perfectly usable for home defense and sport shooting as well.


Assuming that you hit your intruder with one shot....
 
2012-12-17 05:37:16 PM
All this talk about hunting and home defense is fatuous Jeffrey. The 2nd amendment makes no mention of hunting or personal defense. However, it does mention a militia, which connotes warfare, and in the same sentence it mentions the right of the PEOPLE to bear arms. Good luck fighting a modern military using only breech loaders and 5 round magazines.
 
2012-12-17 05:38:17 PM

CapeFearCadaver: Endive Wombat: Want to start assigning blame for incidents like this? Blame the insurance companies that are in bed with politicians. A few more incidents like this and hopefully a real conversation about access to mental health services in the US can actually happen.

I have really great insurance and yet still can not afford the ~$300-400 a month it would cost me to get therapy to deal with my complex PTSD. So, I've just bought psychological books regarding the treatment of PTSD and have tried to do it on my own. It's not really working too well, but at least I can get out of bed every morning. I also do yoga and other things to simply try and calm down. My state drastically cut mental health services 4 years ago so unless I was a danger to myself or others they cannot assist.

I'm in no danger to go off and kill anyone, or myself; but goddammit. How does anyone expect people to get the help they need?


I recommend Full Catastrophe Living by Jon Kabat-Zinn if you haven't read it yet.
 
2012-12-17 05:38:29 PM

mizchief: Kit Fister: mizchief: rufus-t-firefly: But, he had the weapons at home, so he was free to do what he wanted to with them. Hell, under Connecticut law he couldn't have the pistols since he was 20 years old, but the Bushmaster was OK.

Adam Lanza was too young to legally own or carry handguns under Connecticut law.

The system works!

If you seen my other posts, I support gun ownership, even the scary black guns. However, I do think we should apply the laws regarding handguns to all semi-auto shotguns and rifles as well. 21 years old, background check prior to purchase, etc.

But all purchases of firearms require a background check, even long guns. And long guns require you to be 18. What difference will those three years make?

Thanks, my info was outdated, didn't think background checks were required for long guns.


Only firearms that don't require a background check to purchase afaik is black powder. So you get at most six shots before you gotta manually reload it...
 
2012-12-17 05:40:14 PM

Flakeloaf: EViLTeW: Youtube is pro-marine? pro-invasion-of-Iraq?
Throw me a bone here, I'm trying to understand how Youtube and the NRA are comparable in these two situations.

Whoosh.

Hint: The NRA closed their FB page to comments to avoid idiocy.


yep. About the same people who threatened the mass effect page saying they had blood on their hands just because the brother of the shooter (unrelated) had liked a mass effect page.

people are beyond retarded. stir up a little emotions, and they go from normal IQ to "below room temp"
 
2012-12-17 05:42:52 PM

Kit Fister: So judgemental. How about you allow me and my physician decide what issues I have?


Well, there's ONE of your problems. The others have been expressed by yourself and the other posters responding to you.
 
2012-12-17 05:44:31 PM

brnt00: Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy. But let's keep derping about gun control.


How about both. Nobody needs automatic weapons.
 
2012-12-17 05:47:05 PM

Spare Me: Statistically, based on population, these types of incidents are actually fewer and very rare. The reason it "seems" more prominent is the instant news, media and internet blasting of such events.


4 spree killings in one year? Just because murder rates are down doesn't mean spree killings are.
 
2012-12-17 05:47:35 PM

andersoncouncil42: brnt00: Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy. But let's keep derping about gun control.

How about both. Nobody needs automatic weapons.


The guns you're objecting to, only LOOK LIKE automatic weapons. It's OK, the anti-gunners rely on confusion and frequent distortion of that fact.
 
2012-12-17 06:01:38 PM
Uuuuh, there's nothing the NRA can say that would remotely sound good right now. There is nothing to say when 20 kindergarteners and 6 faculty get gunned down. Anyone who tries to defend any part of the actions the kid took on Friday is a dipshiat.
 
2012-12-17 06:11:50 PM

Kit Fister: But all purchases of firearms require a background check, even long guns. And long guns require you to be 18. What difference will those three years make?


That's a question one could as easily ask about drinking. It's arbitrary, in an attempt to quantify maturity.
 
2012-12-17 06:17:30 PM

CapeFearCadaver: Kit Fister: So judgemental. How about you allow me and my physician decide what issues I have?

Well, there's ONE of your problems. The others have been expressed by yourself and the other posters responding to you.


My physician, in this case, is a licensed psychiatrist. My MD referred me. As to my other problems...well, if a minor case of depression is a problem, yes. But yes, I'm okay with this. And, who knows, I might end up giving up guns. But, for now, my doctor, who is also a shooter, has said that he sees no reason why I pose any risk, and suggests that i'm healthier than half of the people who he shoots with, and he's the professional. *shrugs*
 
2012-12-17 06:31:35 PM

Flakeloaf: EViLTeW: Youtube is pro-marine? pro-invasion-of-Iraq?
Throw me a bone here, I'm trying to understand how Youtube and the NRA are comparable in these two situations.

Whoosh.

Hint: The NRA closed their FB page to comments to avoid idiocy.


I still don't see what that has to do with your boobies.

Nra likely shut down their facebook page because they are vehemently pro-gun and people who are pro-banning guns would attempt to use the nra's stance as an excuse to rant and troll all over the page.

as far as I'm aware, youtube (google) only promotes political agenda related to internet legislature, which has no relation to civilians getting killed by marines in iraq.

If youtube was trying to about idiocy, they wouldn't have a comment system...or allow uploads.
 
2012-12-17 06:33:12 PM
Like it or not gun control in this country is a farce; there'll be a "revolution" the day they try to take guns away from American citizens. I own guns, bows, sharp sticks, and harsh language. I've never killed a single person in my life, nor do I intend to. I also don't need any sort of gun commonly identified as an "assault rifle". I don't understand why people want or need such weapons, then again maybe my lack of e-peen is the problem, I don't need a gun to make me look like a badass. I'll stick with my 12ga shotgun and a .22 for varmint killing.

I also think it's a combination of lack of respect for each other in today's society and the 24/7 news channel whoremongering that people get off on.

Younger folks these days behave far more reprehensibly in public than I ever remember when I was growing up. If I treated other people like I saw today, my parents would have marched my arse back out of the car, blistered my behind, and made me go apologize and help pick up the groceries of the older lady whom I I knocked the grocery sack out of her hands. The mother just stood there and watched her 13-15 year old son do that outside of Kroger, and then hurriedly got in the car when being approached by other citizens who wanted to have a few words with her shiatty parenting skills. People just don't care about their neighbors anymore.

And I can't say enough loathing words about Fox News/CNN/et cetera. I'm sorry 20 children died, I'm sorry for their families and friends, and I'm sorry for their whole community...but get it off of the news already. I'm sick of reading about it, I'm sick of watching it. I can't even watch the local news to see the weather without "New theories into why a school was targeted!". The more heroic we make these whackjobs out to be, the more outlandish the next one is going to be. He has to be better than the last one, always.
 
2012-12-17 06:35:14 PM

TimonC346: considering guns are neither mentally or physically addictive.

Bull-toot.

Your entire constitution has been raped senseless by a long succession of retarded politicians, and the American citizenry basically ignored it.

EXCEPT that as soon as someone talks about taking the toys away, the rhetoric is like listening to a homeless guy begging for a bottle of vodka. You can't tell me that this isn't an addiction.

For further proof, check out any of the fine 'enthusiast' sites for firearm owners. Obsessive doesn't even come close.

/Canadian
//Firearm owner
///Gun nuts here aren't any better, but at least they can't hide specious arguments behind a constitution
////They elect idiots like Vic Toews for that.
 
2012-12-17 06:41:13 PM

Kit Fister: Only firearms that don't require a background check to purchase afaik is black powder. So you get at most six shots before you gotta manually reload it...


And for those at home who don't understand. That's a black powder revolver. Reloading it isn't fast or convenient. Criminals don't use black powder guns though.
 
2012-12-17 06:49:36 PM

semiotix: Listen, let the libtards biatch and moan about their precious "safety," but for me, I've got a dick even longer than the 32-round magazine on my dual-wielded TEC-9s.

Unfortunately, what I do not have is a third hand. So when I've fired all 64 rounds (hollow-points, natch), and the terrorist/burglars/deer is still standing there, what am I supposed to do, you panty-wetting clowns?

No, seriously, if you have any ideas, I'd love to hear them. I worry about this a lot. Normally I'd ask the NRA, but they're not answering the phone for some reason.


Go back for target practice, copper.
 
2012-12-17 06:50:04 PM

Mrbogey: Kit Fister: Only firearms that don't require a background check to purchase afaik is black powder. So you get at most six shots before you gotta manually reload it...

And for those at home who don't understand. That's a black powder revolver. Reloading it isn't fast or convenient. Criminals don't use black powder guns though.


As the man once said, shoots as fast as lightning but she loads a mite slow...

/not guilty I said, ya got the wrong man, nothin touched the trigger but the devil's right hand...
 
2012-12-17 07:00:28 PM

dittybopper: There is a problem with this: You can make a gun relatively easily. This guy made the receiver for an AK (the actual part that is classified as a "gun") using an old used shovel.


Well if they illegalize it then quality guns that require milling would disappear but stamped receivers like the AK could be mass produced by any competent machinist almost as fast as you can run the machine. That's a cool link because it shows just how mechanically simply the weapon is.

The AK-47 was designed so that illiterate peasants in a run down shack could assemble and operate it. Some people just can't wrap their heads around this. The only complex pieces on it are the barrel and front trunion. And even those can be either adapted or made with a competent machinist.

And personally, if they ban guns, I'm not going to report anything I see. And I'm sure millions of other Americans would go along with it just like they did during Prohibition.
 
2012-12-17 07:09:37 PM

The Southern Dandy: All this talk about hunting and home defense is fatuous Jeffrey. The 2nd amendment makes no mention of hunting or personal defense. However, it does mention a militia, which connotes warfare, and in the same sentence it mentions the right of the PEOPLE to bear arms. Good luck fighting a modern military using only breech loaders and 5 round magazines.


It's funny that a lot of NRA and 2nd Amendment supporters are arguing that keeping guns in the hands of civilians would prevent or stop these events, but how many of these mass shootings were actually prevented or stopped by armed civilians?
 
2012-12-17 07:18:44 PM

FuryOfFirestorm: It's funny that a lot of NRA and 2nd Amendment supporters are arguing that keeping guns in the hands of civilians would prevent or stop these events, but how many of these mass shootings were actually prevented or stopped by armed civilians?


Armed civilians? Quite a few...
Link

I've also heard the statistic that an armed non-police officer stopped roughly 1 in 9 shootings but I can't find the stat right now.

Also, When civilians intervened, the body count is lower than when there is a wait for the police.

Link

How much time did Adam Lanza have to walk through the school and choose his targets? If he had a bolt action rifle, would it have changed anything?
 
2012-12-17 07:22:41 PM
i487.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-17 07:25:55 PM
Overheard comment at work: "We do NOT need tougher regulation on guns... But, I don't think people should have easy access to assault weapons and high powered firearms".

This is why we can't get things done.
They don't even know what they are talking about.
 
2012-12-17 07:31:26 PM

Mrbogey: And personally, if they ban guns, I'm not going to report anything I see. And I'm sure millions of other Americans would go along with it just like they did during Prohibition.


I have similar thoughts.
Prohibition is the revenuers problem, not mine.

/My guns will probably have "a tragic boating accident" the first day.
/They'll be worth some good money in the future.
 
2012-12-17 07:41:50 PM
I wonder why no one went to get comments from a local farmer when timothy McVeigh blew up a building full of children using cow shiat...
 
2012-12-17 07:43:47 PM

Kit Fister:
I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).


Unless it is .22lr, you are saying you are spending $50k/year on ammo?
 
2012-12-17 07:47:09 PM

atomicmask: I wonder why no one went to get comments from a local farmer when timothy McVeigh blew up a building full of children using cow shiat...


Because he didn't USE cow shiat.
He used Ammonium nitrate fertilizer.
 
2012-12-17 07:47:20 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?


Parenting. Medicating kids. Anti-social behavior via electronics. Anti-social behavior passed down by parents, like not knowing who your neighbors are. The Media hyping up tragic events by measuring them up to other tragic events. "If there are any more deaths, this could be the highest death count at a mass shooting in US HISTORY!!!!!"
 
2012-12-17 07:47:36 PM
There was a documentary on last night about Russian prisons. One of them (Black Dolphin) has an average of 5 murders per inmate. Not sure what it has to do with this discussion...just thought it was an interesting fact.
 
2012-12-17 07:52:46 PM

TommyymmoT: atomicmask: I wonder why no one went to get comments from a local farmer when timothy McVeigh blew up a building full of children using cow shiat...

Because he didn't USE cow shiat.
He used Ammonium nitrate fertilizer.


Did anyone go ask the farmers co-op or big agriculture what it thought about the miss use of its Fertilizer? did they apologize?
 
2012-12-17 07:54:02 PM

Pants full of macaroni!!: Dead for Tax Reasons: RexTalionis: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

Apparently, guns don't kill people, movies kill people.

No, it's the violent video games

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 300x400]

"Hay guize, what's going on in this thread?"


"I do know that, and I think that's really ironic, that nobody said 'well maybe the President had an influence on this violent behavior' Because that's not the way the media wants to take it and spin it, and turn it into fear, because then you're watching television, you're watching the news, you're being pumped full of fear, there's floods, there's AIDS, there's murder, cut to commercial, buy the Acura, buy the Colgate, if you have bad breath they're not going to talk to you, if you have pimples, the girl's not going to fark you, and it's just this campaign of fear, and consumption, and that's what I think it's all based on, the whole idea of 'keep everyone afraid, and they'll consume." ~Manson
 
2012-12-17 07:54:29 PM

santadog: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

Parenting. Medicating kids. Anti-social behavior via electronics. Anti-social behavior passed down by parents, like not knowing who your neighbors are. The Media hyping up tragic events by measuring them up to other tragic events. "If there are any more deaths, this could be the highest death count at a mass shooting in US HISTORY!!!!!"


and then you have children being killed all over the world and none of us tidy comfy Americans really gives a rats ass.
 
2012-12-17 07:54:39 PM

madgonad: Kit Fister:
I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).

Unless it is .22lr, you are saying you are spending $50k/year on ammo?


Most of it is .22lr. I go through about 3k per month of the major calibers, and burn a thousand on a two day weekend course
 
2012-12-17 07:55:00 PM

CygnusDarius: megarian: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

Homosexual atheist democrat pro-abortion single mother fetuses.

And Muslims; and Mexicans.


..and your Mom.
 
2012-12-17 07:56:15 PM
So, there's that.
 
2012-12-17 07:56:32 PM

Kit Fister: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Kit Fister: When it becomes an issue, I will.

Too late.

You're being selfish.

Grow up.

So judgemental. How about you allow me and my physician decide what issues I have? Why is it selfish for me to continue with my hobby when I'm not a danger to anyone and according to my psychologist healthy and well adjusted aside from stress-related depression?

Anyway, I'm a perfectly cromulent adult who is self aware, but thanks for your medial opinion doc.


Can't wait for the "Farker kills wife, kids, and finally self" Headline..
 
2012-12-17 08:04:35 PM
What have we come to, that we can see this happen to our babies and then nit pick the crap out of each other for it?

I mean really.
 
2012-12-17 08:08:47 PM

atomicmask: Did anyone go ask the farmers co-op or big agriculture what it thought about the miss use of its Fertilizer? did they apologize?


Anders Breivik set up a business just so he could secretly amass the fertilizer needed to build his bomb and not arouse suspicion.

America is very lucky that we haven't a very methodical mass murderer in a long time.
 
2012-12-17 08:19:12 PM

Hiro-ACiD: Kit Fister: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Kit Fister: When it becomes an issue, I will.

Too late.

You're being selfish.

Grow up.

So judgemental. How about you allow me and my physician decide what issues I have? Why is it selfish for me to continue with my hobby when I'm not a danger to anyone and according to my psychologist healthy and well adjusted aside from stress-related depression?

Anyway, I'm a perfectly cromulent adult who is self aware, but thanks for your medial opinion doc.

Can't wait for the "Farker kills wife, kids, and finally self" Headline..


I find your faith in me underwhelming. Anyway, like I said, I'm more self destructive than anything (I tend to over apologize and go out of my way to be nice to people when I'm depressed, and tend to eat when I'm depressed.)

I've always figured I'd rather leave my guns out of it, some of my friends want the collection, and my thought would be something like a night of debauchery with Mexican hookers and a big syringe of horse tranquilizer if I wanted to go.
 
2012-12-17 08:23:00 PM
Ya know,
I've been a Farker for a very long time. We've had some great satire filled debates, and some intense arguments bolstered by allegations of fault levied by all sides.
It's been entertaining, so much that we've made DREW a very rich man. That's cool, I've thoroughly enjoyed all of it.

We've come upon the slaughter of children in our own back yard. Yet, as true Farkers, we debate the politics of it. Sniping about gun laws, name calling from the Left , Right and Middle.
As if to say, "it's not my fault, it's the other guy with the wrong ideas."

Well here is an idea for you Farkers, and now,,, I pause. I just don't farkin know. All I know is verbal jousting, ain't gonna bring those kids back.

But as smart as all you farckers claim to be, save your energy for a viable explanation and an enlightened solution.

That is all, you are excused.
 
2012-12-17 08:27:39 PM
Saudies knock down twin towers, better invade Iraq.

Guy uses hunting rifles to kill kids, better ban assault rifles.

/ya, your argument is that stupid
 
2012-12-17 08:27:52 PM

Vodka Zombie: Further proof that owning a gun doesn't make you decent or brave.


This.

I blame the NRA for this. 100 percent.

You can't really blame anyone else on this one and expect things to change in the future.

The NRA funds politicians who de-regulate common sense controls over dangerous firearms - the same politicians who strike down any and all funding for state-run mental health institutions.

Sorry. You can flame me all you want. I don't care. But some asshole has got to take some responsibility for promoting dangerous social policy which leads to farking 6 year olds getting slaughtered like pigs.
 
2012-12-17 08:31:01 PM

Void_Beavis: I blame the NRA for this. 100 percent.

You can't really blame anyone else on this one and expect things to change in the future.

The NRA funds politicians who de-regulate common sense controls over dangerous firearms - the same politicians who strike down any and all funding for state-run mental health institutions.

Sorry. You can flame me all you want. I don't care. But some asshole has got to take some responsibility for promoting dangerous social policy which leads to farking 6 year olds getting slaughtered like pigs.



What's to flame. It's wrong and most people will realize that and promptly ignore you and what you have to say about the situation.
 
2012-12-17 08:34:04 PM

Void_Beavis: The NRA funds politicians who de-regulate common sense controls over dangerous firearms


what common sense control was deregulated?
 
2012-12-17 08:42:59 PM

Mrbogey: Void_Beavis: I blame the NRA for this. 100 percent.

You can't really blame anyone else on this one and expect things to change in the future.

The NRA funds politicians who de-regulate common sense controls over dangerous firearms - the same politicians who strike down any and all funding for state-run mental health institutions.

Sorry. You can flame me all you want. I don't care. But some asshole has got to take some responsibility for promoting dangerous social policy which leads to farking 6 year olds getting slaughtered like pigs.


What's to flame. It's wrong and most people will realize that and promptly ignore you and what you have to say about the situation.


1). You didn't.

2). If the NRA had their way, there would be vending machines with semi-automatic weapons at every strip-mall in america. To believe otherwise is just being dishonest.

3). They do fund politicians who are hell-bent on destroying any form of state funded social safety net, especially those which offer any form of health care. This definitely includes mental health institutions.

4). To deny that reducing the restrictions placed on firearms and increase the number of mentally ill people with access to said firearms is a dangerous social agenda is again, intellectually dishonest.

5). Six year olds are now dead as a direct result of the culture established by these dangerous policies. And don't give me this bullshiat about armed guards either. It only takes a single bullet to take an armed guard out and McHappy Killing Spree moves onto his next helpless victim.

7). If "most people" truly acted as you say, then we are mostly seriously farked up and need to be committed ourselves.

I weep for society. This is some farked up bullshiat right here.
 
2012-12-17 08:46:57 PM
Void_Beavis SmartestFunniest 2012-12-17 08:42:59 PM


Mrbogey: Void_Beavis: I blame the NRA for this. 100 percent.

You can't really blame anyone else on this one and expect things to change in the future.

The NRA funds politicians who de-regulate common sense controls over dangerous firearms - the same politicians who strike down any and all funding for state-run mental health institutions.

Sorry. You can flame me all you want. I don't care. But some asshole has got to take some responsibility for promoting dangerous social policy which leads to farking 6 year olds getting slaughtered like pigs.


What's to flame. It's wrong and most people will realize that and promptly ignore you and what you have to say about the situation.


2). If the NRA had their way, there would be vending machines with semi-automatic weapons at every strip-mall in america. To believe otherwise is just being dishonest.


You should stop posting. You aren't helping the fight for reasonable gun control laws; in fact, you make those of us who want reasonable gun control laws second guess ourselves when we see that gibberish
 
2012-12-17 08:50:02 PM

Void_Beavis: If the NRA had their way, there would be vending machines with semi-automatic weapons at every strip-mall in america. To believe otherwise is just being dishonest.


ah ok, so you're just out of your mind.

since you're out of your mind, when your doctor prescribes an antipsychotic and it is dispensed by a pharmacy, your name/address is added to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System as part of the prohibited persons criteria, therefore of you or someone at that address attempts to purchase a firearm (you have to show proof of residency), it is flagged by the background check system and you are denied sale.

There, an actual direct and meaningful solution to what happened, not lib rambling.
 
2012-12-17 09:00:41 PM

USP .45: Void_Beavis: The NRA funds politicians who de-regulate common sense controls over dangerous firearms

what common sense control was deregulated?


So judging by your handle, this is a waste of my time. Nothing I say will ever convince you.

So instead of trying to become an egg roll (which would be margianally more productive, actually) I'll post some light reading for those who are more sensibly minded.

http://mobile.businessweek.com/articles/2012-12-13/for-gun-makers-nra - good-times-get-better

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/11/NRA-Wins-Big-Gun-R i ghts-Case-at-Federal-Appeals-Court-in-Chicago

http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2008/06/nra-gets-philly-gun-laws-struck - down.html?m=1

http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/26/opinion/etzioni-guns/index.html

http://vacps.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=77:nra- s eeks-to-weaken-background-check-system-in-virginia&catid=36:posts

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=9777

I could go on but if you're looking for proof of common sense laws being struck down by NRA supported politicians, you don't need to go far into a Google search to be convinced.

In this case, a mental health evaluation of all those having access to the firearm would have been part of the key.

Something that the NRA stands opposed to...

Anyway, like I said, this is for the more sensible among us. For you, I'll focus on my best egg roll impression.
 
2012-12-17 09:02:41 PM

Gdalescrboz: Void_Beavis SmartestFunniest 2012-12-17 08:42:59 PM


Mrbogey: Void_Beavis: I blame the NRA for this. 100 percent.

You can't really blame anyone else on this one and expect things to change in the future.

The NRA funds politicians who de-regulate common sense controls over dangerous firearms - the same politicians who strike down any and all funding for state-run mental health institutions.

Sorry. You can flame me all you want. I don't care. But some asshole has got to take some responsibility for promoting dangerous social policy which leads to farking 6 year olds getting slaughtered like pigs.


What's to flame. It's wrong and most people will realize that and promptly ignore you and what you have to say about the situation.


2). If the NRA had their way, there would be vending machines with semi-automatic weapons at every strip-mall in america. To believe otherwise is just being dishonest.

You should stop posting. You aren't helping the fight for reasonable gun control laws; in fact, you make those of us who want reasonable gun control laws second guess ourselves when we see that gibberish


Of whom you are not, instead choosing to exert moral superiority by way of logical fallacy.

Try again.
 
2012-12-17 09:03:39 PM

Void_Beavis: I could go on but if you're looking for proof of common sense laws being struck down by NRA supported politicians, you don't need to go far into a Google search to be convinced.

In this case, a mental health evaluation of all those having access to the firearm would have been part of the key.

Something that the NRA stands opposed to...

Anyway, like I said, this is for the more sensible among us. For you, I'll focus on my best egg roll impression.


You said removed, not struck down. There is a difference. Most of the proposals are unconstitutional nonsense.

As far as mental health, I gave a solution which targets the people with the mental health hangup, not people with no problem at all (because that would be a blatant infringement).
 
2012-12-17 09:03:51 PM

USP .45: Void_Beavis: If the NRA had their way, there would be vending machines with semi-automatic weapons at every strip-mall in america. To believe otherwise is just being dishonest.

ah ok, so you're just out of your mind.

since you're out of your mind, when your doctor prescribes an antipsychotic and it is dispensed by a pharmacy, your name/address is added to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System as part of the prohibited persons criteria, therefore of you or someone at that address attempts to purchase a firearm (you have to show proof of residency), it is flagged by the background check system and you are denied sale.

There, an actual direct and meaningful solution to what happened, not lib rambling.


Prescribing requires an actual evaluation to begin with.

Try again.
 
2012-12-17 09:04:32 PM

USP .45: Void_Beavis: I could go on but if you're looking for proof of common sense laws being struck down by NRA supported politicians, you don't need to go far into a Google search to be convinced.

In this case, a mental health evaluation of all those having access to the firearm would have been part of the key.

Something that the NRA stands opposed to...

Anyway, like I said, this is for the more sensible among us. For you, I'll focus on my best egg roll impression.

You said removed, not struck down. There is a difference. Most of the proposals are unconstitutional nonsense.

As far as mental health, I gave a solution which targets the people with the mental health hangup, not people with no problem at all (because that would be a blatant infringement).


You absolutely did not.
 
2012-12-17 09:07:13 PM

Void_Beavis: USP .45: Void_Beavis: If the NRA had their way, there would be vending machines with semi-automatic weapons at every strip-mall in america. To believe otherwise is just being dishonest.

ah ok, so you're just out of your mind.

since you're out of your mind, when your doctor prescribes an antipsychotic and it is dispensed by a pharmacy, your name/address is added to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System as part of the prohibited persons criteria, therefore of you or someone at that address attempts to purchase a firearm (you have to show proof of residency), it is flagged by the background check system and you are denied sale.

There, an actual direct and meaningful solution to what happened, not lib rambling.

Prescribing requires an actual evaluation to begin with.

Try again.


Right, by the doctor that prescribes the medication. What are you not getting?
 
2012-12-17 09:08:10 PM

Void_Beavis: You absolutely did not.


Except that I did. People on whatever medication this kid was clearly on, are added to the prohibited persons database. The end.
 
2012-12-17 09:08:53 PM

USP .45: Void_Beavis: USP .45: Void_Beavis: If the NRA had their way, there would be vending machines with semi-automatic weapons at every strip-mall in america. To believe otherwise is just being dishonest.

ah ok, so you're just out of your mind.

since you're out of your mind, when your doctor prescribes an antipsychotic and it is dispensed by a pharmacy, your name/address is added to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System as part of the prohibited persons criteria, therefore of you or someone at that address attempts to purchase a firearm (you have to show proof of residency), it is flagged by the background check system and you are denied sale.

There, an actual direct and meaningful solution to what happened, not lib rambling.

Prescribing requires an actual evaluation to begin with.

Try again.

Right, by the doctor that prescribes the medication. What are you not getting?


Right. So if you've never had an evaluation then there's no need for the prescription. Hence "clean background".

I'm surprised this is so hard for you.
 
2012-12-17 09:12:10 PM

USP .45: Void_Beavis: You absolutely did not.

Except that I did. People on whatever medication this kid was clearly on, are added to the prohibited persons database. The end.


Except that you didn't. Again, if you never have had an evaluation AND you have access to the firearm, you are a RISK.

I'm actually giving you gun-nuts an out here. I'm not saying ban them entirely, however, if someone at a place of residence has a mental disability where the firearm is owned and maintained, then the permit should not be granted.

Again, common sense.
 
2012-12-17 09:12:20 PM

Void_Beavis: Right. So if you've never had an evaluation then there's no need for the prescription. Hence "clean background".

I'm surprised this is so hard for you.


Right because people on hardcore antipsychotics just get medical evaluations and are prescribed medications by chance, like a doctor accidentally finding a tumor in a routine xray.
 
2012-12-17 09:15:07 PM
Probably because no one bombards the facebook page of Budweiser or the various Restaurant associations when someone gets drunk and kills someone-car, fire, whatever.
No one goes and flips out at convenience store fb pages when they sell gasoline and someone uses it for arson.
 
2012-12-17 09:15:51 PM

Void_Beavis: I'm not saying ban them entirely, however, if someone at a place of residence has a mental disability where the firearm is owned and maintained, then the permit should not be granted.


There are no "permits," you're either allowed to buy or not. The simpler solution is keep track of who is on these types of medications, not assume EVERYONE IN THE COUNTRY is a risk. What is a medical evaluation going to reveal? Oh that they're already on antipsychotics...so let's just report who is taking them. They probably shouldn't be allowed pilot's and trucking licenses, etc.

And you call the gun nuts paranoid.
 
2012-12-17 09:16:26 PM

Kit Fister: madgonad: Kit Fister:
I keep at any given time about 5,000 rounds of the common calibers (considering I shoot 2-3000 rounds per weekend, I'm ordering fairly frequently).

Unless it is .22lr, you are saying you are spending $50k/year on ammo?

Most of it is .22lr. I go through about 3k per month of the major calibers, and burn a thousand on a two day weekend course


I thought my 2-300 rounds, 7-8 times a year was excessive. Add in the cost of traveling to at least one CMP match every year and it gets expensive. Quality ammo hasn't been affordable for a long, long time.
 
2012-12-17 09:16:59 PM

pedrop357: Probably because no one bombards the facebook page of Budweiser or the various Restaurant associations when someone gets drunk and kills someone-car, fire, whatever.
No one goes and flips out at convenience store fb pages when they sell gasoline and someone uses it for arson.


Doesn't mean that there shouldn't be restrictions.
 
2012-12-17 09:20:52 PM

USP .45: Void_Beavis: I'm not saying ban them entirely, however, if someone at a place of residence has a mental disability where the firearm is owned and maintained, then the permit should not be granted.

There are no "permits," you're either allowed to buy or not. The simpler solution is keep track of who is on these types of medications, not assume EVERYONE IN THE COUNTRY is a risk. What is a medical evaluation going to reveal? Oh that they're already on antipsychotics...so let's just report who is taking them. They probably shouldn't be allowed pilot's and trucking licenses, etc.

And you call the gun nuts paranoid.


It only took one guy to slaughter a school full of six year olds.

Paranoid? So yeah. If I apply for a permit with a house full of undiagnosed psychopaths, as long as I have a clean background, I'm allowed to give them all free access to my firearms. I love your logic. Remind me to steer far away from whatever hole you live in.

Like I said, I'd spend my time better trying to transform into an egg roll than argue with you.
 
2012-12-17 09:24:12 PM

Void_Beavis: Doesn't mean that there shouldn't be restrictions.


I thought we were talking about why the NRA might have disconnected its fb page.

As for guns, there lots of restrictions, far more then driving cars, buying gas, etc.
 
2012-12-17 09:28:12 PM

People_are_Idiots: Go back for target practice, copper.


In keeping with the personal awesomeness that allows me to perceive the need for enormously high-capacity, semiautomatic pistols with flare suppressors and shoulder stocks and laser sights and phosphorus rounds (etc)., I am, of course, a crack shot. I could have hit Osama bin Laden right in the jihads from 3 klicks away... with a muzzle loader... and a BB. (And I was getting around to it, too.)

Anyone who suggests that I need guns that piss bullets like the proverbial racehorse because I know I'm a terrible shot, or I don't trust myself to hit the blind side of a barn in an actual crisis, is going to have to deal with my associates, Smith and Wesson. (Those are the nicknames I have for my AR-15s. It's a little joke, because S&W only make pussy guns, like the .44 Magnum. That movie cracks me up, by the way. Can you imagine? He's supposed to be this badass, but he's carrying a revolver. A revolver, for fark's sake! And only one!)

But I digress. Anyway, I would feel more, I don't know, free if I could own weapons that would confuse and intimidate James Bond, so please and thank you.
 
2012-12-17 09:31:18 PM

Void_Beavis: Paranoid? So yeah. If I apply for a permit with a house full of undiagnosed psychopaths, as long as I have a clean background, I'm allowed to give them all free access to my firearms.


A. an undiagnosed psychopath will pass a mental health evaluation easily and could get their own, much less steal yours. We're not talking about them.

B. a schizophrenic, autistic, or anyone taking strong psychoactives will already have a medical history, and history of prescribed medications.

An eggroll would but forth better rebuttals. You have almost no command of the subject matter.
 
2012-12-17 09:40:32 PM

Mrbogey: How much time did Adam Lanza have to walk through the school and choose his targets? If he had a bolt action rifle, would it have changed anything?


What would have changed things would be if he hadn't been raised in a culture with a great love of and easy access to guns. The US doesn't have any more mentally ill people than other western countries. The difference is in how many guns the average citizen has access to, and the religious worship of firearms.
 
2012-12-17 09:59:11 PM

whatshisname: What would have changed things would be if he hadn't been raised in a culture with a great love of and easy access to guns. The US doesn't have any more mentally ill people than other western countries. The difference is in how many guns the average citizen has access to, and the religious worship of firearms.


No, you see that's your projecting your political ideas upon the problem. You're no different than someone saying it's because there's not enough reverence for God.

His easy access was he KILLED someone and took their guns. How's Norway with their gun culture and mental health laws? The place must such because they lost 4 times as many youths in their last attack.
 
2012-12-17 10:00:35 PM

FuryOfFirestorm: The Southern Dandy: All this talk about hunting and home defense is fatuous Jeffrey. The 2nd amendment makes no mention of hunting or personal defense. However, it does mention a militia, which connotes warfare, and in the same sentence it mentions the right of the PEOPLE to bear arms. Good luck fighting a modern military using only breech loaders and 5 round magazines.

It's funny that a lot of NRA and 2nd Amendment supporters are arguing that keeping guns in the hands of civilians would prevent or stop these events, but how many of these mass shootings were actually prevented or stopped by armed civilians?


The shootings in gun-free zones or other ones?
 
2012-12-17 10:11:37 PM
They can spend millions on lobbyists to talk behind closed doors to keep guns unregulated, they can and will defend themselves from an armed intruder, but they can't take a little criticism on facebook?

NRA QQ
 
2012-12-17 10:18:06 PM
I think the NRA had to take the Facebook page down so the guy who runs it could be assigned to write new fund raising bile.


Something to the tune of "Pay no attention to the dead childruns, we still need a gazillion guns each before Obummer makes them illegul."

Pity you can't fix crazy. I think no one should own more than 10 guns but you'd never get anyone at the NRA to take that as a compromise.

No good to outlaw them when they can be made out of ball point pens.
 
2012-12-17 10:21:14 PM

Mrbogey: No, you see that's your projecting your political ideas upon the problem.


No, that's me pointing out statistics.
 
2012-12-17 10:22:01 PM

Pants full of macaroni!!: Dead for Tax Reasons: RexTalionis: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

Apparently, guns don't kill people, movies kill people.

No, it's the violent video games

[images3.wikia.nocookie.net image 300x400]

"Hay guize, what's going on in this thread?"


dammit in 1999 they cancelled his damn concert. i had a date with a hot girl and everything. still dated the girl for a while, but still she was super crazy and that would have been a great night!
 
2012-12-17 10:24:51 PM

whatshisname: No, that's me pointing out statistics.


Okay, which statistics? The one that shows other countries with extensive gun bans became more violent after they banned them or violence never receded? Or that mass shootings are essentially a statistical bump in the grand scheme of American violence?
 
2012-12-17 10:32:46 PM

irreverend mother: I think the NRA had to take the Facebook page down so the guy who runs it could be assigned to write new fund raising bile.


Something to the tune of "Pay no attention to the dead childruns, we still need a gazillion guns each before Obummer makes them illegul."

Pity you can't fix crazy. I think no one should own more than 10 guns but you'd never get anyone at the NRA to take that as a compromise.

No good to outlaw them when they can be made out of ball point pens.


Hows this for a marketing campaign. I'm donating a dollar to the NRA for every comment I read form uniqune posters calling for an all out ban on guns.

Anyone else want to join me?
 
2012-12-17 10:36:15 PM
Void_Beavis

Smartest
Funniest
2012-12-17 09:02:41 PM
Gdalescrboz: Void_Beavis SmartestFunniest 2012-12-17 08:42:59 PM


Mrbogey: Void_Beavis: I blame the NRA for this. 100 percent.

You can't really blame anyone else on this one and expect things to change in the future.

The NRA funds politicians who de-regulate common sense controls over dangerous firearms - the same politicians who strike down any and all funding for state-run mental health institutions.

Sorry. You can flame me all you want. I don't care. But some asshole has got to take some responsibility for promoting dangerous social policy which leads to farking 6 year olds getting slaughtered like pigs.


What's to flame. It's wrong and most people will realize that and promptly ignore you and what you have to say about the situation.


2). If the NRA had their way, there would be vending machines with semi-automatic weapons at every strip-mall in america. To believe otherwise is just being dishonest.

You should stop posting. You aren't helping the fight for reasonable gun control laws; in fact, you make those of us who want reasonable gun control laws second guess ourselves when we see that gibberish

Of whom you are not, instead choosing to exert moral superiority by way of logical fallacy.

Try again.


Ya, because I enjoy seeing 20 kindergarten kids shot. Is that who you think is on the other side of your debate? No wonder you're ideas are so farking outlandish
 
2012-12-17 10:48:00 PM

Mrbogey: Okay, which statistics? The one that shows other countries with extensive gun bans became more violent after they banned them or violence never receded?


No, the ones that show deaths by guns in the US compared to other western democracies.
 
2012-12-17 10:49:25 PM
I've been an NRA life member for 30+ years. And I am, to be honest, quite offended by the posters here who claim to speak for the NRA.

Let me tell you what the NRA stands for. We have spent decades, or a century, training our country's police and military. We have spent century showing the country that law-abiding citizens are beacons of society. We have spent decades, insisting that criminals who use guns in their crimes are prosecuted to the maximum of the existing laws. We have spent decades, to promote laws that prosecute criminals who use guns.

Sadly, we have spent decades defending ourselves against people who equate our millions of NRA members, with the few criminals, who violate laws against country and mankind. Even worse, we have spent these decades trying to show how criminals are not the same as honest people. Any logical person will immediately understand that criminals do not follow laws. Yet, the intellectual lazy and logically impaired people, take the easy way out and blame all gun owners, rather than the law breakers.

As a law obiding gun owner, it offends me that the intellectual lazy equate me with the one in a million criminals.
 
2012-12-17 10:54:53 PM

djh0101010: As a law obiding gun owner, it offends me that the intellectual lazy equate me with the one in a million criminals.


Then quit giving them guns.
 
2012-12-17 10:58:22 PM

Red_Fox: Gyrfalcon: The guns were legally obtained and otherwise lawful. The only person responsible here was the shooter. Period.

Had they been illegal in the first place they wouldn't have been there for him to take. What part about that aren't you grasping?


....blink.....

Oh, I grasp that point fine.

But they WERE there and he DID take them, so blaming anyone retroactively is pretty lame. If my aunt had been born with balls, she would have been my uncle, but since she wasn't, why are we even having this conversation?
 
2012-12-17 11:03:21 PM

RexTalionis: tenpoundsofcheese: waiting for hollywood to deactivate their facebook pages on all their violent shows and movies.

we have had guns for a long time. what has changed in the last 10 years that results in these senseless slaughters?

Apparently, guns don't kill people, movies kill people.


I think his point was that Hollywood has as much to do with this as the NRA.

What could the NRA have possibly said that would appease those who hate them? I don't blame them for essentially saying "no comment".
 
2012-12-17 11:10:50 PM

mizchief: irreverend mother: I think the NRA had to take the Facebook page down so the guy who runs it could be assigned to write new fund raising bile.


Something to the tune of "Pay no attention to the dead childruns, we still need a gazillion guns each before Obummer makes them illegul."

Pity you can't fix crazy. I think no one should own more than 10 guns but you'd never get anyone at the NRA to take that as a compromise.

No good to outlaw them when they can be made out of ball point pens.

Hows this for a marketing campaign. I'm donating a dollar to the NRA for every comment I read form uniqune posters calling for an all out ban on guns.

Anyone else want to join me?


Crickets.
 
2012-12-17 11:30:04 PM
I'm not surprised that the Nutty Raving Assholes are cowards.
 
2012-12-17 11:44:08 PM

The Southern Dandy: Forget banning assault rifles. We need to ban hands, fists and feet. They're the real killers. They kill twice as many people as rifles do.

[i.imgur.com image 850x776]


ok someone pls edumacate me here.. other than handguns, rifles and shotguns what 'other' type of guns are there which contribute to these hundred or so murders every year?
are they saying that every year about 100 American are killed by miniguns, machine guns or chain guns?
I don't recall reading in the news about a bunch of folks mowed down by an M-60 or a 12.5 mm 6 barrel minigun.
 
2012-12-17 11:48:41 PM

The Southern Dandy: Forget banning assault rifles. We need to ban hands, fists and feet. They're the real killers. They kill twice as many people as rifles do.

[i.imgur.com image 850x776]


also TSD is a dumbass with severe critical thinking skills. It's not the total aggregate amount of murders based on annual statistics. It's about the ability to inflict mass casualties per incident of violence.

Unless you can provide examples where someone using only their fists and legs can easily kill 30 people in 10 minutes your thinking is totally flawed and assinine.
 
2012-12-18 12:12:44 AM
I'm 54 years old, graduated high school in 1976, growing up every pickup truck in the high school parking lot had a gun in it. Every house had a gun near the front door. We didn't have the violence back then as we do now. So how's it the guns fault?
 
2012-12-18 12:15:25 AM

Insatiable Jesus: Acting like the guilty enablers of child murder that they are.

No?

Then why act guilty?


I'm sorry were you refering to the more than 3000 abortions completed every day?
 
2012-12-18 12:26:33 AM

The Southern Dandy: Forget banning assault rifles. We need to ban hands, fists and feet. They're the real killers. They kill twice as many people as rifles do.

[i.imgur.com image 850x776]


From the same data ... over half of all murders in the US are committed with hand guns, devices whose primary design function is to kill human beings. More than any other method, including all other types of guns and weapons.

Here's a reality check:

1. The second amendment, as envisaged by its authors, has no relevance today. In no way, shape or form could gun enthusiasts overthrow the government and the US military.

2. US society would be safer if there were far fewer guns and less types of guns. Yes, it will take a long time to put the djinn back in the bottle, but it was done successfully in the UK and Australia anfd can be done here.

3. All criminally owned guns start out as legally owned guns. Restricting the ultimate source of supply does eventually have an impact on downstream availability.

4. Strict gun controls are not inconsistent with a thriving recreational firearms and shooting industry (c.f. Scotland)

5. While incidents like school shootings grab the headlines, the real opportunity to save lives is making sure the average person who has a bad day doesn't have a lethal weapon in their possession to facilitate doing something regrettable and tragic. The father of two in Phildelphia who complains to his neighbor about dog turds shouldn't be at risk of being shot.

6. Pistols as "home defence" are a statistically proven crock of shiat. See 5. above.

7. It's time to start with a clean sheet of paper and consider new gun laws ... here's what I am thinking:

- no guns designed for killing humans allowed in private hands
- limited number of types of guns, to facilitate legitimate sports uses
- .22 rifles for target shooting, single shot load only
- 12 gauge shotguns for bambis, bunnies, etc.
- locked gun cabinet, inspected periodically by police
- all guns tracked, accounted for, shown to police annually
- forensic test fires from all guns taken by manufacturer and kept on file
- limits on quantities of guns and ammo held by each person
- collectable guns not covered by the above have to be permanently disabled

7. Yes, someone can make their own gun. Yes, they can strangle a kid with a shoelace or make a bomb. But as the philosopher Izzard observes: "Guns don't kill people. People kill people. But I think you'll find the gun helps". We don't have to make it easy for them.

8. Implementing an Australian-like reduction in guns will save thousands of lives a year within a couple of decades. The data doesn't lie. Yes it can work in America, you are not special. 200 years ago everyone thought their life would be over if they couldn't own black people, and the south is still here.
 
2012-12-18 12:26:34 AM

The Muthaship: It's funny how much overlap there is between people that want vastly more stringent gun ownership restrictions, and people that want more government control of everything.

And yet, the gun owners are the cowards.


===========================================

WAIT JUST A MINUTE... YOU HAVE IT ALLL WRONG

Republicans want smaller Governmen and less taxest; Democrats want larger Government with more laws every day. Democrats want to govern what you eat, what you drive, how to get your electricity, Democrats want to increase taxes and increase rules on businesses. When you see all these new laws like watering you yard on off days or your school gets fined because a kid gave someone a cookie or you get a ticket in the mail from a traffic camera that is all Democrats...
 
2012-12-18 12:28:03 AM

Mrbogey: His easy access was he KILLED someone and took their guns. How's Norway with their gun culture and mental health laws? The place must such because they lost 4 times as many youths in their last attack.


How many mass shootings did Norway have before that attack? How many after? We've had 7 this year, 50 over the last 20 years, 62 over the last 30.
 
2012-12-18 12:33:08 AM

Mentat: Mrbogey: His easy access was he KILLED someone and took their guns. How's Norway with their gun culture and mental health laws? The place must such because they lost 4 times as many youths in their last attack.

How many mass shootings did Norway have before that attack? How many after? We've had 7 this year, 50 over the last 20 years, 62 over the last 30.


Gun nuts have strongly held opinions not hampered by data. You're wasting your breath.
 
2012-12-18 01:35:26 AM

ParaHandy: --numbered item of total bullshiat--


#1-you'd be surprised what armed civilians could do. Though it most likely will never get to a place where the government would be overthrown simply because a lot of tyrannical things that have been done in other countries won't be considered due to the armed populace. If it's irrelevant, the COTUS should be amended as you understand was done with slavery and the 13th amendment.

#2-Aside from murder, the UK and Australia both have higher violent crime rates. The UK has also seen sharp increases in gun crime while the US has seen a sharp decrease. Fewer people killed, far more beaten, raped, and robbed isn't necessarily a good trade.
#3 All criminal cars start out as legal cars, should we heavily restrict law abiding person's access to cars too?
#4 would be relevant if the only use for guns was recreation. Going with #7 would pretty much destroy our firearm industry in this country.
#5 is which is opinion and anecdote
#6 claims handguns are not useful for home defense, references #5; double down on opinion on anecdote.
I'm on the fence if #7 regarding the firearms you will 'allow' people to own is serious or parody.
#8 means we have to tolerate several hundred years of increasing victimization, and open the door for good old fashioned tyranny that all the other disarmed nations have had at one time. I'm sure a US holocaust will make Germany's look like child's play.
 
2012-12-18 02:06:16 AM
I think we've got a fundamentally flawed premise that sufficiently detailed laws can remove all "bad things" from society. They won't, because we've stopped agreeing on the definitions of words, and because the complexity of human interactions is far more diverse than can be regulated by laws written by the most contemptible people in our society (lawyers and politicians).

The problems we need to solve involve difficult discussions, the gradual adoption of new norms of behavior, and yet they must include the acceptance of outlying thoughts and words. The outliers are where we find both genius and madness. It's a fantasy that enough words in legislation can protect society from danger while still encouraging free will.

So, don't farking make new laws. Instead, have a block party with your neighbors! Have someone talk to that strange kid down the block who talks to his elbows and form an opinion: normal weird kid or head case? Does he talk to his elbow because he is making novel connections and the elbow is a convenient abstraction? Or are his farking elbows talking back to him? If so, your neighborhood has a slight issue that everyone else in the neighborhood needs to address, basically by friending the hell out of him. Also, farking give up on the home-schooling bullshiat and, for that matter, get rid of private schools. Fark you if you don't agree, but ALL OF THE KIDS ARE ALL OF OUR KIDS.

Want to protect all of our kids? Not gonna happen with that free will thing in the mix. Neither will demonizing the oddball-du-jour. We just need to try to kill fewer kids without adding one more wedge issue that convinces us that the other side is irrational and filled with hate. We need to work with the other side, even if they're obviously assholes.
 
2012-12-18 02:38:29 AM

p4p3rm4t3: .....

[img255.imageshack.us image 243x182]


Fark you spiderman...you don't get to just invent powers for yourself, you're not superman you know...
 
2012-12-18 07:54:06 AM

TheMega: #1 reason for these "sprees" is for the attention and rise to stardom... far past that of ANY star of the big screen, music or television gets in a year. Coverage on every channel, sometimes even taking scheduled programs off to report more on it (and nothing new, just the same stuff, over and over), the nutbag's photos plastered on the screen, time and time again... instant fame for a year, programs and documentaries made for 30 years and a whacko's name remembered for a long, long time..


If 'spectacle suicide' got these people no more attention than they would get if they quietly offed themselves at home with no witnesses, there would be no spectacle suicides/

durbnpoisn: I've made no bones about this. I think it is a fine and reasonable right to own guns. Hunting, recreation, or self defense. But, there is no need for some person in the suburbs to own a milary grade assult rifle. (I guess those deer won't kill themselves after all).


Military grade assault rifles have been heavily regulated since the GCA of 1934. The 1986 Hughes Amendment closed the federal registry for them, limiting the supply to those that were already registered at that point. To buy an actual assault rifle through legal channels in the United States is a very expensive and lengthy process.

What you're talking about is the so-called 'assault weapon', which is nothing more than a semi-automatic rifle that looks scary and was largely demonized based upon cosmetic features that have no effect whatsoever on the ballistics of the firearm itself.

There are also many states where it is legal to hunt with carbines like the AR-15, and in fact they are quite useful for prairie dogs.

These two rifles:

www.gunslot.com
blogs.suntimes.com

are functionally identical. They are both semi-automatic rifles. They both fire .223 caliber ammunition.

One of them is demonized as an evil assault weapon and one of them is not, yet every difference between them is purely cosmetic.
 
2012-12-18 08:09:48 AM

ParaHandy: The Southern Dandy: Forget banning assault rifles. We need to ban hands, fists and feet. They're the real killers. They kill twice as many people as rifles do.

[i.imgur.com image 850x776]

From the same data ... over half of all murders in the US are committed with hand guns, devices whose primary design function is to kill human beings. More than any other method, including all other types of guns and weapons.

Here's a reality check:

1. The second amendment, as envisaged by its authors, has no relevance today. In no way, shape or form could gun enthusiasts overthrow the government and the US military.

2. US society would be safer if there were far fewer guns and less types of guns. Yes, it will take a long time to put the djinn back in the bottle, but it was done successfully in the UK and Australia anfd can be done here.

3. All criminally owned guns start out as legally owned guns. Restricting the ultimate source of supply does eventually have an impact on downstream availability.

4. Strict gun controls are not inconsistent with a thriving recreational firearms and shooting industry (c.f. Scotland)

5. While incidents like school shootings grab the headlines, the real opportunity to save lives is making sure the average person who has a bad day doesn't have a lethal weapon in their possession to facilitate doing something regrettable and tragic. The father of two in Phildelphia who complains to his neighbor about dog turds shouldn't be at risk of being shot.

6. Pistols as "home defence" are a statistically proven crock of shiat. See 5. above.

7. It's time to start with a clean sheet of paper and consider new gun laws ... here's what I am thinking:

- no guns designed for killing humans allowed in private hands
- limited number of types of guns, to facilitate legitimate sports uses
- .22 rifles for target shooting, single shot load only
- 12 gauge shotguns for bambis, bunnies, etc.
- locked gun cabinet, inspected periodically by police
- all guns tracked ...


How about no? Does no work for you? Why do you insist on blaming the BEHAVIOR on an inanimate object?

I mean, let's pause for a second. AR-15s and similar weaponry were fairly popular long before spree killing became "a thing", and yet only NOW are they being used and abused. What changed there? Where were the spree killers back when Full Auto firearms were not only available, but fairly common and inexpensive?

But yes, let's keep using mental illness and farked up behavior to justify pushing a personal view of how things should be.

Am I against some more stiff laws? No. But outright bans? What would they accomplish? They're provably ineffective, provably unlikely to deter criminals from acquiring firearms, and provably unlikely to deter a determined criminal.

Hell, back in your referenced country of Scotland, in 1996, a man with legally owned firearms walked into a school and did nearly exactly the same thing as our shooter on Friday.

So, what, in the great state of Scotland with its gun laws as they are, stopped that from happening?
 
2012-12-18 08:49:57 AM

brnt00: TypoFlyspray: brnt00: Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy. But let's keep derping about gun control.

You're never going to get all the guns away from the people who have no business having the power to kill at a distance, and you're never going to identify all the violently crazy early enough to keep them from acting on it. SO, given that it is relatively easy to get a gun and given that it is relatively had to get someone institutionalized for violent insanity (until they actually kill someone) perhaps it's not a matter off either well funded national healthcare (including comprehensive mental healthcare) and Removing the stigma associated with using mental healthcare services, OR some common sense gun control, but rather both? Particularly if the latter is informed by the former?

Characterizing what's being seriously discussed regarding gun control right now as Derpery across the board is failing to consider that a lot of the suggestions out there are reasonable by any sense, and itself verges on Derp.

Can anyone really say now that the Gun Show loophole should remain open?

I would tend to agree. But I feel like with the political climate the way it is, there's no chance in hell that any new gun control laws are going to get passed, just look at the resistance in the Fark threads. Looking at this particular situation, the guns were legally purchased by the mother. Apart from an all out ban on semi automatic weapons, I don't know what kind of new gun laws could have prevented this. A law that says she has to turn in the guns since a person that lives with her has been diagnosed with a board line personality disorder? I just don't know the answer. What I do know, is that had the parents or someone else encouraged and assisted him to get the help he needed, and tha ...


I think we'll see the Gunshow Loophole closed, and I think we'll see a ban on high cap'y clips and magazines. Manchin and Scarborough coming around will give cover to conservatives who want to be grown ups.
 
2012-12-18 08:52:03 AM

Joe Blowme: LOL now dem senators are crying about assault weapons bans, which still would have done nothing in this case as the killer used pistols. Never let a crisis go to waste.


Never let reality get in the way of a good story. Guy used an AR-15
 
2012-12-18 08:52:51 AM

dittybopper: Now all of a sudden you don't have to worry about a handful of manufacturers each turning out tens of thousands of guns, but tens of thousands of manufacturers, each turning out a handful of guns. Much harder thing to keep track of.


Much easier to jail.
 
2012-12-18 09:05:04 AM

TypoFlyspray: dittybopper: Now all of a sudden you don't have to worry about a handful of manufacturers each turning out tens of thousands of guns, but tens of thousands of manufacturers, each turning out a handful of guns. Much harder thing to keep track of.

Much easier to jail.


Really?
 
2012-12-18 09:11:48 AM

TypoFlyspray: I think we'll see the Gunshow Loophole closed, and I think we'll see a ban on high cap'y clips and magazines. Manchin and Scarborough coming around will give cover to conservatives who want to be grown ups.


The so-called 'gun show loophole' is a bullshiat meaningless term anyway.

What you're really talking about is all private transfers that currently do not require the involvement of an FFL, and that means private sales, gifts and bequests in a will regardless of where they take place.

Gun shows have absolutely fark-all to do with it. All the FFL holding dealers at the gun show or anywhere else have to do the BATFE 4473 and the NICS (or state point of service, for those states that have implemented one which includes NICS) and all the other paperwork (i.e. the PA SP-134) regardless of whether they sell a firearm at their shop, at a gun show, or at your mother's kitchen table.

The so-called gun show loophole is a fabrication.
 
2012-12-18 09:54:48 AM

heili skrimsli: TheMega: #1 reason for these "sprees" is for the attention and rise to stardom... far past that of ANY star of the big screen, music or television gets in a year. Coverage on every channel, sometimes even taking scheduled programs off to report more on it (and nothing new, just the same stuff, over and over), the nutbag's photos plastered on the screen, time and time again... instant fame for a year, programs and documentaries made for 30 years and a whacko's name remembered for a long, long time..

If 'spectacle suicide' got these people no more attention than they would get if they quietly offed themselves at home with no witnesses, there would be no spectacle suicides/

durbnpoisn: I've made no bones about this. I think it is a fine and reasonable right to own guns. Hunting, recreation, or self defense. But, there is no need for some person in the suburbs to own a milary grade assult rifle. (I guess those deer won't kill themselves after all).

Military grade assault rifles have been heavily regulated since the GCA of 1934. The 1986 Hughes Amendment closed the federal registry for them, limiting the supply to those that were already registered at that point. To buy an actual assault rifle through legal channels in the United States is a very expensive and lengthy process.

What you're talking about is the so-called 'assault weapon', which is nothing more than a semi-automatic rifle that looks scary and was largely demonized based upon cosmetic features that have no effect whatsoever on the ballistics of the firearm itself.

There are also many states where it is legal to hunt with carbines like the AR-15, and in fact they are quite useful for prairie dogs.

These two rifles:

[www.gunslot.com image 700x515]
[blogs.suntimes.com image 850x250]

are functionally identical. They are both semi-automatic rifles. They both fire .223 caliber ammunition.

One of them is demonized as an evil assault weapon and one of them is not, yet every difference between them is purely ...


And cosmetics are what you run a good propaganda campaign upon.
 
2012-12-18 09:55:59 AM
Think about "any fool can see".

Strong Stuff when applied right after Divide and Conquer.
 
2012-12-18 10:09:10 AM

Kit Fister: rufus-t-firefly: onyxruby: IlGreven: onyxruby: This issue has nothing to do with guns, they are the red herring.

People can keep saying this. It doesn't make it true. Even if a majority of people believe it, it doesn't make it true.

Just curious, do you try to get cars banned because of the very large number of people killed by them every year? This is a people issue, just like drunk driving.

Really, keep using the "CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!" argument. It definitely makes a good point - for more regulations on firearms. 

[i48.photobucket.com image 500x675]

See, a drunk driver can be caught before he kills anyone, because the mere act of driving drunk is illegal. However, we usually find out that some whackjob had an arsenal only AFTER he kills a couple dozen people because we don't track ammo purchases or require registration of all firearms across the board.

And at what point do you differentiate between the guy who legally owns lots of guns and ammo, and someone who's a whackjob?


At what point does hording qualify as mental illness?
 
2012-12-18 10:16:11 AM

nobodyUwannaknow: Kit Fister: rufus-t-firefly: onyxruby: IlGreven: onyxruby: This issue has nothing to do with guns, they are the red herring.

People can keep saying this. It doesn't make it true. Even if a majority of people believe it, it doesn't make it true.

Just curious, do you try to get cars banned because of the very large number of people killed by them every year? This is a people issue, just like drunk driving.

Really, keep using the "CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!" argument. It definitely makes a good point - for more regulations on firearms. 

[i48.photobucket.com image 500x675]

See, a drunk driver can be caught before he kills anyone, because the mere act of driving drunk is illegal. However, we usually find out that some whackjob had an arsenal only AFTER he kills a couple dozen people because we don't track ammo purchases or require registration of all firearms across the board.

And at what point do you differentiate between the guy who legally owns lots of guns and ammo, and someone who's a whackjob?

At what point does hording qualify as mental illness?


And at what point does collecting qualify as hording? Who gets to set arbitrary rules? Why is it people that jump to conclusions about crap think theirs is the only reasonable solution and answer, then complain that they can't have the conversation? People who don't agree with you aren't worth listening to, right?
 
2012-12-18 10:37:00 AM

Giltric: rufus-t-firefly: Tax, title and registration need some kind of identification.

Umm no....you do not need to do any of those things to own a car.......you do need to do that in case you are driving on public roads and get pulled over though.

Ever watch COPS?


A car has a serial number and a title. These records establish legal responsibility . While a car can be purchased for cash, the seller will assign the title , and the responsibility, to the buyer. A buyer who wants more "liberty" than that is limited to stolen cars.
 
2012-12-18 11:38:08 AM

snocone: And cosmetics are what you run a good propaganda campaign upon.


Their propaganda campaign boils down to:

Hate this because it's black,and black things are scary.

Pretty farked up, IMO.
 
2012-12-18 12:35:04 PM
And America's children will continue to bleed so that insecure white people can pretend they hold their own destinies in their hands.
 
2012-12-18 12:57:49 PM

Insatiable Jesus: And America's children will continue to bleed so that insecure white people can pretend they hold their own destinies in their hands.


Because white people are the only ones who own or carry guns...
 
2012-12-18 01:41:27 PM

Insatiable Jesus: And America's children will continue to bleed so that insecure white people can pretend they hold their own destinies in their hands.


far more would bleed or have been bled without an armed populace.
 
2012-12-18 02:51:25 PM

pedrop357: Insatiable Jesus: And America's children will continue to bleed so that insecure white people can pretend they hold their own destinies in their hands.

far more would bleed or have been bled without an armed populace.


Nobody ever seems to go on one of these rampages at a firing range. It's always somewhere that they know the victims are defenseless.
 
2012-12-18 02:52:00 PM
i466.photobucket.com
 
2012-12-18 03:04:35 PM

Kit Fister: rufus-t-firefly: onyxruby: IlGreven: onyxruby: This issue has nothing to do with guns, they are the red herring.

People can keep saying this. It doesn't make it true. Even if a majority of people believe it, it doesn't make it true.

Just curious, do you try to get cars banned because of the very large number of people killed by them every year? This is a people issue, just like drunk driving.

Really, keep using the "CARS KILL PEOPLE TOO!" argument. It definitely makes a good point - for more regulations on firearms. 

[i48.photobucket.com image 500x675]

See, a drunk driver can be caught before he kills anyone, because the mere act of driving drunk is illegal. However, we usually find out that some whackjob had an arsenal only AFTER he kills a couple dozen people because we don't track ammo purchases or require registration of all firearms across the board.

And at what point do you differentiate between the guy who legally owns lots of guns and ammo, and someone who's a whackjob?


At their annual mental health reevaluation that we will require in order for that person to own firearms. It can go along with a physical and vision checkup to make sure that gramps can still see well enough to be trusted with weapons that can kill at a mile or more.
 
2012-12-18 03:16:28 PM

heili skrimsli: Nobody ever seems to go on one of these rampages at a firing range. It's always somewhere that they know the victims are defenseless.


Well, not rampages but I remember hearing, not so long ago, about a woman who shot her son and then herself (telegraph.co.uk). However your point about "gun-free zones" stands.
 
2012-12-18 03:28:26 PM

stevarooni: heili skrimsli: Nobody ever seems to go on one of these rampages at a firing range. It's always somewhere that they know the victims are defenseless.

Well, not rampages but I remember hearing, not so long ago, about a woman who shot her son and then herself (telegraph.co.uk). However your point about "gun-free zones" stands.


People who want a high number of victims always go for where the victims will be defenseless. It would take an idiot to deliberately attack a bunch of people who have a really good chance of being able to mount a serious defense.
 
2012-12-18 04:18:06 PM

heili skrimsli: One of them is demonized as an evil assault weapon and one of them is not, yet every difference between them is purely cosmetic.


Not purely cosmetic. The weight difference between the two would make a small but practical difference in terms of how quickly and well you could swing it around to shoot another person, then another, then another. Other little differences between the "normal" weapon and the "assault" weapon not pictured in your example make small but consequential differences too. If you're going to be shooting a bunch of people from some hiding place in the bushes somewhere (for home defense, naturally), you'll want a flash suppressor. And so forth.

But overall, you're right--for most purposes, they're the same weapon. Which is to say, for most purposes, they're both 2,000% the weapon you need.

A gun ban that meant anything would have to take into account the fact that if you need more than two shots to kill a deer, you have no farking business hunting, and if you haven't subdued or scared away the burglars with your willingness to fire six missed shots inside your home, you probably won't with sixty, either. (Not that a carbine or rifle is exactly an ideal home defense weapon in the first place, but never mind.)

We won't get that, because actual hunters who come home one deer richer and one shell poorer every November don't really get involved in the debate, even though (and God I hope I'm right about this) they're the majority of gun owners. Instead, at best, we'll get a resurrection of the old assault weapons ban, meaning really purely cosmetic alterations to the same old models, and the NRA howling about the end of civilization as though an Uzi with an aftermarket-mounted "tactical" bayonet had just been shoved up its ass.
 
2012-12-18 04:52:19 PM

semiotix: heili skrimsli: One of them is demonized as an evil assault weapon and one of them is not, yet every difference between them is purely cosmetic.

Not purely cosmetic. The weight difference between the two would make a small but practical difference in terms of how quickly and well you could swing it around to shoot another person, then another, then another. Other little differences between the "normal" weapon and the "assault" weapon not pictured in your example make small but consequential differences too. If you're going to be shooting a bunch of people from some hiding place in the bushes somewhere (for home defense, naturally), you'll want a flash suppressor. And so forth.

But overall, you're right--for most purposes, they're the same weapon. Which is to say, for most purposes, they're both 2,000% the weapon you need.

A gun ban that meant anything would have to take into account the fact that if you need more than two shots to kill a deer, you have no farking business hunting, and if you haven't subdued or scared away the burglars with your willingness to fire six missed shots inside your home, you probably won't with sixty, either. (Not that a carbine or rifle is exactly an ideal home defense weapon in the first place, but never mind.)

We won't get that, because actual hunters who come home one deer richer and one shell poorer every November don't really get involved in the debate, even though (and God I hope I'm right about this) they're the majority of gun owners. Instead, at best, we'll get a resurrection of the old assault weapons ban, meaning really purely cosmetic alterations to the same old models, and the NRA howling about the end of civilization as though an Uzi with an aftermarket-mounted "tactical" bayonet had just been shoved up its ass.


Umm, deer don't shoot back.
I know it is a small detail, but,,,

/most guns are not for deer IRL, they are for killing other people with guns.
Get the Fark over it.
 
2012-12-18 04:53:32 PM

heili skrimsli: Nobody ever seems to go on one of these rampages at a firing range. It's always somewhere that they know the victims are defenseless.


Indeed. We're told that guns are "unregulated" or face less regulation then cars, are designed only to kill, etc. YET places swarming with guns like gun shows, gun ranges, gun stores, police stations, etc. are never the target of mass killers. I think one guy tried a shootout at a police station, and occasionally someone tries robbing a gun store, but no one ever goes on a rampage there. I wonder why. It might be worth pointing out that no one ever opens fire at military base checkpoints or on their firing ranges either. In fact, the only real mass killing I remember was in an areas where the average soldier is disarmed.
 
2012-12-18 04:55:45 PM
I just counted.
I own over 300 wrenches. Not counting duplicates, because sometimes you do need two.
Some qualify as antiques.
Each and every one serves a different specific purpose, like a good tool should.

Intervention?
 
2012-12-18 04:57:16 PM

pedrop357: heili skrimsli: Nobody ever seems to go on one of these rampages at a firing range. It's always somewhere that they know the victims are defenseless.

Indeed. We're told that guns are "unregulated" or face less regulation then cars, are designed only to kill, etc. YET places swarming with guns like gun shows, gun ranges, gun stores, police stations, etc. are never the target of mass killers. I think one guy tried a shootout at a police station, and occasionally someone tries robbing a gun store, but no one ever goes on a rampage there. I wonder why. It might be worth pointing out that no one ever opens fire at military base checkpoints or on their firing ranges either. In fact, the only real mass killing I remember was in an areas where the average soldier is disarmed.


Exception to the rule???

The Fort Hood shooting was a shooting that took place on November 5, 2009, at Fort Hood, the most populous U.S. military installation in the world, located just outside Killeen, Texas.[1] In the course of the shooting, a single gunman killed 13 people and wounded 29 others.[1] It is the worst shooting ever to take place on an American military base.[2]
 
2012-12-18 04:58:37 PM

snocone: Exception to the rule???

The Fort Hood shooting was a shooting that took place on November 5, 2009, at Fort Hood, the most populous U.S. military installation in the world, located just outside Killeen, Texas.[1] In the course of the shooting, a single gunman killed 13 people and wounded 29 others.[1] It is the worst shooting ever to take place on an American military base.[2]



That's the ONE. The soldiers were required to be disarmed and he was only stopped if I remember right by a visiting local cop.
 
2012-12-18 05:05:00 PM

pedrop357: snocone: Exception to the rule???

The Fort Hood shooting was a shooting that took place on November 5, 2009, at Fort Hood, the most populous U.S. military installation in the world, located just outside Killeen, Texas.[1] In the course of the shooting, a single gunman killed 13 people and wounded 29 others.[1] It is the worst shooting ever to take place on an American military base.[2]


That's the ONE. The soldiers were required to be disarmed and he was only stopped if I remember right by a visiting local cop.


You need to get out more.
Evar hear of "friendly fire"? Well, this one timeonce upon a time in DaNang, it wasn't so friendly.
But it was weekly.
Or, just ask Spc.Tillman., when you see him.
 
2012-12-18 05:44:58 PM

snocone: Umm, deer don't shoot back.
I know it is a small detail, but,,,

/most guns are not for deer IRL, they are for killing other people with guns.
Get the Fark over it.


Couldn't agree more, except for the getting over it part. I'm a-comin' for a few of your more ridiculously useless guns. You get over it.

I'll say it again. If you genuinely, legitimately need to shoot some evil-doer, or scare him away, and you can't do it with a revolver (say), you can't do it at all. Your (ahem) "tactical" weapon will change nothing.

The burglar you surprised is not going to size up your handgun and think, "hmm, what's he going to do, shoot me only six times? No biggie." And if he charges you and you put a regular old bullet in his shoulder (in which case good for you, because you're a hell of a good shot given the amount of adrenaline in your system), he's not going to laugh and say, "oh, please, I can tell that didn't even fragment into six artery-shredding pieces." Your (ahem) "tactical" weapon won't subdue him any more effectively; it will just enhance your chances of "subduing" the flat-screen he was stealing and the kid sleeping on the other side of the drywall.

The mass shooter armed with weapons just like the ones you cherish, whom you catch mid-rampage in a crowded movie theater, is not going to be any easier to hit with twenty bullets in ten seconds than one well-aimed bullet. (Let's say for sake of argument that you're cooler in a firefight than Shaft, just to get past the question of whether you should even have one bullet in this situation.) The people running around screaming on either side of him are, though. That's all your (ahem) "tactical" weapon is good for. He chose those weapons because he needs to kill everybody, immediately, and they're good for that. You're carrying around a carbine because... wait, why are you taking a carbine into a movie theater?

If you want to shoot guns like the mass shooters use, join the Army. They'll let you shoot some truly badass guns, under close supervision, watched very carefully by men who are better shots than you. And they'll let you hold one of those badass guns while you're standing watch. But unless you're in an actual war zone, they probably won't be giving you any bullets for it unless and until there's a reason for you to have bullets. The Army's not entirely stupid. 

But I'm glad we agree that this has fark all to do with protecting hunters' ability to do their thing.
 
2012-12-18 06:46:01 PM

snocone: Exception to the rule???

The Fort Hood shooting was a shooting that took place on November 5, 2009, at Fort Hood, the most populous U.S. military installation in the world, located just outside Killeen, Texas.[1] In the course of the shooting, a single gunman killed 13 people and wounded 29 others.[1] It is the worst shooting ever to take place on an American military base.[2]


This is actually not an exception to the rule.

Except for military police and within the designated firing range, the carrying of firearms on a military base in the United States is prohibited. Hell, you can't even drive onto the base with the firearm unloaded, cased and locked up in your trunk to do some hunting after work, it's so tightly controlled.

So given that he killed his victims away from the firing range, it's pretty much like any other non-military defenseless-victim zone.

semiotix: But overall, you're right--for most purposes, they're the same weapon. Which is to say, for most purposes, they're both 2,000% the weapon you need.


And you might be on to something if it weren't for the idea that you seem to believe firearm owners have some obligation to demonstrate need.

The only reason I own most of the firearms I own is that I like them and could afford to buy them. Need and usefulness were about as relevant to me as they were to the dozen sets of Buckyballs I bought, and I am under no more obligation to prove such need for firearms than for any other item.
 
2012-12-19 12:37:53 AM

heili skrimsli: And you might be on to something if it weren't for the idea that you seem to believe firearm owners have some obligation to demonstrate need.


That's exactly right. I do think that. And if I had the faith in the political courage and attention span of my elected representatives that one might put in, say, the throwing arm of Garo Yepremian, that obligation would manifest itself in the form of a law.

I have all kinds of opinions on what you should and shouldn't be allowed to possess. Roofies, cesium-137, child pornography, endangered pandas, 60-round magazines, dimethylmercury, chattel slaves, and that's just off the top of my head. Behold, the terrible face of the jackbooted thug. Tremble before me, the fascist harbinger of the dread nanny state. Feel free to throw in any other names I forgot to call myself there.

For what it's worth, I could care less about you keeping your Buckyballs and your stock .30-30. But neither do I have a problem with one or more levels of government banning the sale of the former and tightly regulating your use and possession of the latter. (Oh noes, tyranny.)
 
2012-12-19 12:42:16 AM
I'll just leave this here.
 
2012-12-19 07:47:37 AM

semiotix: For what it's worth, I could care less about you keeping your Buckyballs and your stock .30-30. But neither do I have a problem with one or more levels of government banning the sale of the former and tightly regulating your use and possession of the latter. (Oh noes, tyranny.)


Aww, that's cute that you think firearm ownership only applies to benign looking wooden stock hunting rifles.

I'm not a prohibited person under federal or state law, so I guess it's just too bad for you about the 60 round magazines, the hollow point ammunition and the scary black rifles I own. My 'use and possession' of firearms is already under quite enough government control, regardless of your apparent fear of the dreaded 60 round magazine.

Oh freaking noes! A 60 round magazine so that I don't have to reload as often at the range. How horrible and terrifying. Perhaps they should be banned because you're afraid of them for no logical or legitimate reason. My possession and use of 60 round magazines in my 'scary black rifles' do absolutely nothing to harm you, so I could give a shiat what you think about them.
 
2012-12-19 09:10:15 AM

heili skrimsli: TypoFlyspray: I think we'll see the Gunshow Loophole closed, and I think we'll see a ban on high cap'y clips and magazines. Manchin and Scarborough coming around will give cover to conservatives who want to be grown ups.

 
The so-called 'gun show loophole' is a bullshiat meaningless term anyway.
 
What you're really talking about is all private transfers that currently do not require the involvement of an FFL, and that means private sales, gifts and bequests in a will regardless of where they take place.
 
Gun shows have absolutely fark-all to do with it. All the FFL holding dealers at the gun show or anywhere else have to do the BATFE 4473 and the NICS (or state point of service, for those states that have implemented one which includes NICS) and all the other paperwork (i.e. the PA SP-134) regardless of whether they sell a firearm at their shop, at a gun show, or at your mother's kitchen table.
 
The so-called gun show loophole is a fabrication.
 
What I'd really like to see is Shooter Licensing, as with Driver licensing.  You're shooter license would say which classes of Gun you were qualified to own and operate. Now I'm sure that some guntards are going to get all "Mark of the Beast! Gonna use it to take my guns and put me in a camp", which is, I suppose, fair, as that's the kind of person who should not under any circumstances be allowed the option of killing from a distance, but that would solve the whole background check neatly.  You could give or transfer a gun to anyone who's licensed to own that gun, n the same way you could give a car to someone who's licensed to drive it. (Wouldn't make any sense to give a Porsche to a Blind Man, would it?  Same for giving a gun to a crazy man.)
 
Perfect Solution?  Don't be silly.  There ain't no such thing.  Progress, though.
 
2012-12-19 09:14:10 AM

Kit Fister: TypoFlyspray: dittybopper: Now all of a sudden you don't have to worry about a handful of manufacturers each turning out tens of thousands of guns, but tens of thousands of manufacturers, each turning out a handful of guns. Much harder thing to keep track of.

Much easier to jail.

Really?


Yup. 1) Smaller companies means less capital means less expensive lawyers.  Less expensive lawyers tend to address the facts in the case rather than stalling until the Statute of limitations goes away. 2) Smaller companies can be shut down without creating an uproar over loss of jobs, particularly if they are shut down for running a criminal enterprise and end up with a significant number of their employees (and all their management) in jail.  3) Much easier to jail actual people than artificial ones (Corporations).
 
2012-12-19 12:26:00 PM
I just read it again, and I just cannot see where the Constitution was referring to hunting rifles no matter how much spin is applied.
They are addressing the up to date anti personnel shooting iron weapon of the day.
 
"Oh My Hunting" is simply a strawman.
 
2012-12-19 01:57:40 PM

snocone: I just read it again, and I just cannot see where the Constitution was referring to hunting rifles no matter how much spin is applied.
They are addressing the up to date anti personnel shooting iron weapon of the day.
 
"Oh My Hunting" is simply a strawman.


The government admitted that the 2nd amendment applied to military firearms in US v Miller. They were contesting the idea that a short barrel shotgun was a military firearm. Had Miller not died and his lawyer actually showed up to trial, the defense might have been able to provide the court some evidence that an SBS does have military use.
 
2012-12-19 04:24:22 PM

pedrop357: snocone: I just read it again, and I just cannot see where the Constitution was referring to hunting rifles no matter how much spin is applied.
They are addressing the up to date anti personnel shooting iron weapon of the day.
 
"Oh My Hunting" is simply a strawman.

The government admitted that the 2nd amendment applied to military firearms in US v Miller. They were contesting the idea that a short barrel shotgun was a military firearm. Had Miller not died and his lawyer actually showed up to trial, the defense might have been able to provide the court some evidence that an SBS does have military use.

 
Having spent some time with military users, I must say that almost any oblect has a military use.
The pecking order starts w/ The Nuclear Hand of God, walks right on by hands and feet, and goes all the way down to dust and smoke.
The "combat" weapons used defy definition.
Firearms, however, hold a special emotion for the fearful. Fear carefully instilled, stoked, fed and politicised.
 
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