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(USA Today)   Not content with causing an increase in Measles and other preventable diseases in the US, anti-vaxers now want to expand their scientifically discredited crusade against Thimerosal to UN programs meant to help the third world   (usatoday.com) divider line 38
    More: Asinine  
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3791 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Dec 2012 at 11:00 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-17 10:39:19 PM  
2 votes:

vysharra: Think about this:

Could it be that the increase in autism is from the TV shows, for children, that feature that rapid, flashing, MTV-style editing being watched by very young children under 1 year old?

[...]

Just wondering if anyone has thought of this.

Plenty of people have tried that route and they are wrong. Signs of autism are visible in infancy in person and on MRI as well as some signs that can be observed in the womb. Autism is still "unknown" but it is entirely congenital and most likely has a combo of epigenic/environmental causes.


Specifically (for folks curious)--much of the latest research on autism spectrum disorders strongly indicates that ASDs should be considered not mental illness or even an autoimmune disease but an intrinsic (and likely strongly genetically mediated) disorder of neuronal differentiation and migration that occurs at the actual period of forebrain formation during the second and third trimester.

Put into layman's terms--the general problem in ASDs is that there are a lot more of inter-cell connections in the brain compared to those "not on the spectrum", and normally these start going into some set pathways in neurotypical people (with extra connections "winnowed out") which does not happen in folks with ASDs.

Put into geekly terms--whereas neurotypicals have their neurons with a few set "BGP routes" in the brain, folks with ASDs have BGP routes to EVERYTHING on DS3 lines and tend to have a lot of instances of packet storms and crosstalk as a result (which explains the tactile sensitivity and synesthesia that is a hallmark of more severe manifestations of ASDs).

Also--all evidence seems to point to things happening very early in neural development, sometimes when a woman is barely aware she's pregnant--and all signs point to ASDs being genetic somehow, either causing an inborn error in neuronal differentiation and migration or having a gene that is affected by environmental conditions in the uterus (the "epigenetic conditions" that were mentioned earlier--epigenetics is basically the study of genes that react differently depending on environmental conditions--certain conditions can turn these genes "on" or "off").

Pretty much from the time babby is born (even as a preemie), his genetic and epigenetic destiny has been set as to whether he'll be neurotypical or have some flavour of ASD--this is why we're starting to find that a kid (ultimately diagnosed as having an ASD) can be found as early as six weeks after birth via differences in eye movements--it's apparent even that young that the brains of folks with ASDs have much more "crosstalk" than that of neurotypicals and this results in differences in eye tracking. Vaccines have Sweet Fark All to do with it; the time to stop a gene from turning on or to turn it off would have been at least six months earlier.

(Note here I'm referring to actual ASDs, and not the very rare cases of neurological injury from a vaccine reaction--most of which happened with vaccines that are no longer in common use worldwide (the "old" pertussis vaccine, which did have some rare cases of neurological injury associated with it), vaccines not commonly given to children (yellow fever vaccine--actually contraindicated in babies), or certain specific vaccines in strong combination with a familial history of autoimmune disorders or known hypersensitivity to a specific ingredient in vaccines. That said--if a family history does exist of bad reactions to vaccines, guess what--most doctors will specifically recommend avoiding or deferring vaccination in that case...which is why it's more important for folks who CAN get the shots to get them.)

Thimerosal, interestingly, is not linked commonly to reactions--there are people who are allergic to it, yes, but there was a far more common source of thimerosal available as an everyday home remedy well up into the 90s--thimerosal was sold over-the-counter as Merthiolate for ages, and if thimerosal caused autism, we should have a veritable epidemic of folks with ASDs dating from about 1940 to about 1995 or so and leveling off about 1999. (This has not happened, obviously.) Thimerosal was pretty much removed as a part of removing pretty much anything containing mercury off the market, up to and including tilt switches and thermometers, because Minamata disease (an industral illness resulting from a very bioavailable organic mercury) had pretty much scared the shiat out of the research and medical community in regards to anything quicksilver related--they didn't even want the extremely remote theoretical risk that someone could somehow take a massive dose and give themselves mercury poisoning (particularly in addition to the miniscule medical use, we're talking stuff like "kids still got to play with liquid mercury in school" and "mom dabbing every single cut and scrape in OHGOD IT BURNS Merthiolate".

Put more succinctly--Thimerosal was removed for the same reason that bottles of it (under the brand name Merthiolate) and liquid mercury ANYTHING were pulled off the market--we found certain organic mercury compounds did Very Bad Things to folks and they didn't want even the tiniest risk that the stuff could harm someone or (more to the point) they could be sued over it--despite the fact the stuff had been used to dab the cuts and bruises of pretty much every kid since World War II well up into Generation X.
2012-12-17 12:29:09 PM  
2 votes:
"Whether or not there is proveable evidence that thimerisol doesn't cause harm, it HAS been removed from first world vaccinations."

When you get a shot in the US, you know that the vaccine was kept refrigerated at all times from the production lab to your doctor's office.

In rural Africa, people are not so lucky. Their vaccines might have had a multi day journey on the back of a farking camel.

And that is why we need the thimerosal option. Whatever risks thimerosal might have, they're nowhere near as bad as getting meningitis from a contaminated vaccine batch. Vaccine makers started adding the stuff because of a meningitis incident in Australia in the 1920's.

Notice that happened before antibiotics. And before reliable refrigeration.
2012-12-17 11:59:21 AM  
2 votes:

desertmouse: berylman: I don't understand how Thimerosal can be blamed for autism when organomercury compounds are nearly ubiquitous in the environment and diet in quantities that vastly outweigh the amount one would receive in a vaccination. Nothing I have read or heard has addressed that. I am not agreeing with the premise that mercury may facilitate autism necessarily just saying that if you are going to blame Thimerosal you really have to put it into context of total mercury burden and all exposure routes.

It's the fact that a large number of vaccines are administered to newborns. They get a batch of vaccines injected right into their bloodstream their first week when most babies are about 6 or 7 pounds. That's different than a 50 pound child ingesting something.

I am also severely allergic to thimerosal. If I had known it was a preservative in most shots, I would have waited until my daughter was a certain weight before having them done. I have regrets about her getting the full battery when she wasn't even 6 pounds.


Your daughter was exposed to more bacteria, viruses and toxins from the air in her first breath than could ever be delivered in a vaccine. There is only one vaccine given in the newborn period (hep B in the first two days of life). The rest are not administered till 2 months old. I would hope that your daughter was more than 6lbs by the time she was 2 months old. Multiple studies have been done showing there is no advantage to spreading out the doses. Actually starting at a later date puts them at risk. The reason we start at such a young age is that the illnesses being prevented are the worst the younger the infant is (H. flu, hep B) and the reason they need so many boosters is that the immunity does not persist due to their immature immune system. Waiting till you are over 1 years old to prevent H.flu is like waiting till your kid is 18 to get car insurance. I mean what's the chance a 16 year old will get in a wreck?
2012-12-17 11:50:34 AM  
2 votes:
Anti vaxxers and their crusade are the perfect embodiment of the term "first world problems" (or white people problems if you prefer). Life's so easy they have to manufacture a hardship to overcome.

Third world problem: My kid died of polio, but not before infecting the rest of my kids. I wish we had vaccines.
First world problem: That bastard doctor tried to give my precious snowflake a vaccine! Can you imagine?! The unmitigated gall!
2012-12-17 11:23:49 AM  
2 votes:
Think about this:

Could it be that the increase in autism is from the TV shows, for children, that feature that rapid, flashing, MTV-style editing being watched by very young children under 1 year old?

Adults, cans sometimes go into seizures from these techniques and there are warnings on some games, movies, etc.

Could it be that while the infant's brain is making crucial neural connections, there's some short-circuiting going on as the infant is trying to absorb 5 images/second with flashes and loud music?

I mention this as Sesame Street decided in the early 90s that kids were more sophisticated and watched MTV, so they didn't want to seem boring like "Mr. Rogers" or "Barney". So they changed their format to included such editing and other effects, and made the skits/scenes shorter so the kids don't get bored.

Parents, thinking Sesame Street is what they remember from the 1970s, plot their infant down in from of this, as it's "safe" entertainment.

Just wondering if anyone has thought of this.
2012-12-17 11:05:39 AM  
2 votes:
As I mentioned in another thread, I just had an elderly patient in the hospital die of the flu.

I am still following another young, formerly completely healthy patient who is critically ill in the ICU more than two weeks after getting the flu, and then getting several flu-related complications.

Vaccines were developed for a reason.

/Don't get me started on the specious objections to GMOs.
2012-12-17 11:02:43 AM  
2 votes:
PS this is not like the DDT issues. (ie it was banned in the US/Europe only to continue to be sold in the third world for profit)
The only reason they removed Thimerosal from US vaccines was for PR purposes, their was no scientifically valid reason to do so.
2012-12-18 11:11:49 AM  
1 votes:
I know people joke that we should let people not vaccinate, as that'll thin the herd of morons, but ultimately the people that suffer the most are generally innocent. The ones most at risk of getting sick are not only the increasingly large number of children who aren't vaccinated, but are also often ones who get the disease from the non-vaccinated people.

Especially at risk are kids too young for vaccines, such as babies who end up with whooping cough, or people like my cousin's toddler, who have compromised immune systems. In her case, the toddler had an organ transplant and can never receive live vaccines like chicken pox.

I can't tell you how much it pisses my cousin off to hear her supposedly progressive, highly educated mommy friends talk about how they don't want to risk their kid's precious health by putting poisonous vaccines in their bodies. Their lack of vaccinating the lil snowflakes puts my cousin's daughter at a very real risk of death by preventable disease.
2012-12-17 10:23:05 PM  
1 votes:

AJisaff: so, if we fed them, they wouldn't get sick and die?? why, that's crazy talk!!! lets go stick em full of drugs instead, because big pharma tells us to.... that makes so much more sense...


Which takes more resources:
A. Feeding someone for life
B. Giving someone an injection.
2012-12-17 06:41:17 PM  
1 votes:

inner ted: your ass-i-ness aside, you do realize you are making my point for me right? and while CDC may recommend those at 2 month, i know from my own recent experience that the hospitals don't wait 2 months... sorry i don't have a link from my son's birth, but i do have the waivers i had to sign. also: the infant gets most or all of it's immunity from breastfeeding until it develops it's own. if mom ain't breastfeeding, then baby is even more susceptible & weaker.


I apologize for being a dick. Really. I understand the concern of watching your newborn get injected with things designed specifically to piss off the immune system. Hep B is given at birth Here's why
The rest are generally started a bit later, and there are reasons behind every shot in the schedule - it's not guesswork. If the hospital gave you a bunch before leaving, then yes, maybe they were hedging their bets on followup compliance being poor. There's still no evidence that's harmful. Less effective? Maybe, I'd be curious to see the research. But not harmful.

inner ted: also: the infant gets most or all of it's immunity from breastfeeding until it develops it's own. if mom ain't breastfeeding


Breastfeeding is fantastic, but kids that are formula fed are not immunosuppressed or immuncompromised by any real sense of the terms. Transplacental antibodies cover them until they make their own. Vaccines are adding a handful of antigens to the innumerable milieu the kids are constantly being exposed to. It's ok.

Again, sorry I was a dick. I just hate to even give an inch on this subject. Vaccines are wonderful achievement of mankind's fight over nature, some of them have caused absolute victories over diseases that plagued our ancestors. Take them! We don't get wins like this often in medicine. Everyone complains that all we do is treat, we don't cure. There are cures out there, just ask polio and smallpox.
2012-12-17 05:59:51 PM  
1 votes:
As someone who just is getting over Chickenpox at the age of 42, I can't tell you how much I am pro-vaccination, and how much anti-vaxxers make me want to jump on their throats until their heads pop off.

CSB: Sister had it when she and I were really young. Mom did everything to make sure I got it, it never appeared. Ergo, wow, Znuh, you must be immune. This was a wrong presumption.

Fast forward to 42 year-old Znuh, who visits Dad, who has a 'mystery rash' and refuses to see the Doctor. Surprise! Mystery Rash was Shingles; cue to a confused me wondering what that blister on my noggin is.

It's been two weeks, EVERYWHERE was covered, and yes, I mean everything, everywhere. The oatmeal baths, the incessant itching, the myriad of horrible pustules. I wouldn't wish it on ANYONE.

Mom's a former RN. The trouble with all you idiots is the quality of life is so damn nice now, that you're questioning things that were sunk deep into the ground that contributed to us reaching where we are, now. Things like vaccinations. Glass-Steagall. Taxing the Rich.

I've got a lion-repelling jacket; it works because there's no lions around. Just because something doesn't give a 'surface' appearance of doing something crucial, doesn't mean that it isn't. Stop ripping out the machinery that gave you such a nice today. The more you tug, the more we're rocked on a deeper level. We're all led through misery only so you can go, at the end, 'Oh, that's why we did that in the past'.

You farking anti vaccination morons.
2012-12-17 05:24:18 PM  
1 votes:

inner ted: overwhelming a newborn with no immune system of it's own


Also laughable. Immunity isn't fully developed until around 6 months, but infants are making their own host of antibodies around 2-3 months of age as the mother's (mainly IgG) levels in the infant are decreasing. Wonder why most of the shots are recommended by the CDC to start around 2 months of age? Link

It's almost like people researched all this stuff and came to valid conclusions based on epidemiology, cell biology, and immunology instead of just doing what felt right. 

I know I came off as condescending and put too many replies in a row, but this anti-vax business needs to see its end. There is no place for it in this day and age. It's a symptom of an underlying current of anti-science thinking and drives me crazy.
2012-12-17 05:14:42 PM  
1 votes:

PunGent: My response to the labeling issue is, if this stuff is so good for us, why aren't they PROUD to label it? :)


Because a bunch of paranoid farktards will boycott it and try to scare other people into doing the same.

/as if the whole "organic foods" market bullshiat wasn't enough
2012-12-17 03:00:58 PM  
1 votes:

Flash_NYC: AngryPanda: Flash_NYC: Think about this: [lots of nonsense]

So the television affects their genetic programming as well? Autistic individuals are not brain damaged, their brains develop differently and they perceive senses differently.

The assertion you're making is quite insensitive to those who actually know autistic people - their brains are not damaged, they're just different.

No. Their brains could be genetically wired differently, which makes them, like people more susceptible to seizures, more prone to have damage done to crucial neural connection pathways while their not yet fully developed brain is trying to absorb those images.

There has been a huge uptick in the numbers of Autistic children in the USA in the last 20 years. Is it due to better diagnosis or due to some new external factors that have appeared. Children's television has come a long way since "Capt. Kangaroo" and "Mr. Rogers".

The least someone could do is look into how those editing techniques, which can cause issues with adults; from headaches to seizures; may be affecting infant brain development. Or it may not be.

Some doctors say there shouldn't be any TV before 1 or 2 years old. I don't know, but shouldn't someone at least try to study what the effects may, or may not be?


There's a lot of reasons why the autism has been on the rise:

1) They changed the definition in 1994, beforehand the best you could be is "Rain Man". My brother is practically the poser child for Aspberger's but was not formally diagnosed with it because his assessment was before 1994. When the new rules made their way into general practice he was about to graduate High School and there was no point adding on to the list of learning disabilities and other issues he has.

2) Older Parents are more likely to have kids with LDs

3) High risk pregnancies and early deliveries are more likely to have kids with LDs, with better technology more and more are surviving

4) There's less "shame" associated with a handicapped child. When my brother was born my Grandma was shocked that we didn't put him in a home and pretend he didn't exist. More people are willing to say "You know, something is wrong with Jimmy. We should see a Doctor about it."

5) It can be "beneficial" to receive a diagnosis, especially if it's "borderline" or "mild". School Districts get extra money per disabled kid, even if the kid only needs time and a half on tests. Parents can get Medicaid and SSL benefits, a "get out of trouble for free" card, time and a half on all tests forever, etc.

6) Internet self-diagnosing
2012-12-17 02:27:48 PM  
1 votes:
I just found out today my 19 month old has the measles (that's the initial diagnosis anyway). He received his first MMR at 12 months, but somehow still got it. We live in Africa so there's a chance he was just one of the unlucky few for whom the initial vaccine wasn't good enough and being surrounded by so much of the disease, it finally caught up to him. Although, ironically, based on the incubation period and the timing of his symptoms, he more than likely got it in the US.

Luckily it seems like a pretty mild case and the fever portion of it is already gone, but you just never know. Plus it kind of comes as a shock when the doctor and nurse both look at you and say "This has to be measles."
2012-12-17 02:04:03 PM  
1 votes:

Flash_NYC: Think about this:

Could it be that the increase in autism is from the TV shows, for children, that feature that rapid, flashing, MTV-style editing being watched by very young children under 1 year old?

Adults, cans sometimes go into seizures from these techniques and there are warnings on some games, movies, etc.

Could it be that while the infant's brain is making crucial neural connections, there's some short-circuiting going on as the infant is trying to absorb 5 images/second with flashes and loud music?

I mention this as Sesame Street decided in the early 90s that kids were more sophisticated and watched MTV, so they didn't want to seem boring like "Mr. Rogers" or "Barney". So they changed their format to included such editing and other effects, and made the skits/scenes shorter so the kids don't get bored.

Parents, thinking Sesame Street is what they remember from the 1970s, plot their infant down in from of this, as it's "safe" entertainment.

Just wondering if anyone has thought of this.


Maybe it's what we call the condition and not the condition?
photoninthedarkness.com
2012-12-17 01:43:37 PM  
1 votes:

AJisaff: how bout the fact that more money is being spent on trying to achieve the "herd immunity" levels in third world countries by vaccinating, than is spent on FEEDING them??? even the CDC admits that "herd immunity" is arbitrary depending on the current health standing of the communtiy being immunized??

here's some interesting reading....

Measles Nutritional Therapies
[back] Measles [back] Vitamin C

"Many viral infectious diseases have been cured and can continue to be cured by the proper administration of Vitamin C. Yes, the vaccinations for these treatable infectious diseases are completely unnecessary when one has the access to proper treatment with vitamin C. And, yes, all the side effects of vaccinations...are also completely unnecessary since the vaccinations do not have to be given in the first place with the availability of properly dosed vitamin C."---Dr Thomas Levy M.D., J.D. (Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases and Toxins p30)

See: Homeopathy & Measles Naturopathy and measles Positive effect of childhood diseases

Malnutrition plays a significant part in measles deaths
"In 1980 approx 39% of the world's children (141 million) suffered from some degree of malnutrition."--The Malnourished Child by Robert Suskind, Louisiana State University School of Med.

Malnutrition is to blame for more than half of all the deaths of children around the world -- including deaths caused by diarrhea, pneumonia, malaria and measles, researchers said on Thursday. Poor nourishment leaves children underweight and weakened and vulnerable to infections that do not have to be fatal, the team at the World Health Organization and Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore found. They estimated that feeding all children worldwide an adequate diet would prevent about 1 million deaths a year from pneumonia, 800,000 from diarrhea, 500,000 from malaria, and 250,000 from measles...... They estimate that 52.5 percent of all deaths in young children were attributable to undernourishmen ...


Okay, wow. While there's no arguing that malnutrition severely exacerbates disease pathology, there's too many things wrong here:

1) Vitamin C is not a cure-all. People have been on this for nearly a century and it hasn't been true in any of that time.

2) Proper nutrition will not substitute for a vaccine. We're eating ourselves to death in American and we're not invulnerable to infectious disease.

3) Providing vaccines ends up being quite a bit easier than providing food. If there were an easy solution to global hunger, we'd have it already.
2012-12-17 01:21:02 PM  
1 votes:
how bout the fact that more money is being spent on trying to achieve the "herd immunity" levels in third world countries by vaccinating, than is spent on FEEDING them??? even the CDC admits that "herd immunity" is arbitrary depending on the current health standing of the communtiy being immunized??

here's some interesting reading....

Measles Nutritional Therapies
[back] Measles [back] Vitamin C

"Many viral infectious diseases have been cured and can continue to be cured by the proper administration of Vitamin C. Yes, the vaccinations for these treatable infectious diseases are completely unnecessary when one has the access to proper treatment with vitamin C. And, yes, all the side effects of vaccinations...are also completely unnecessary since the vaccinations do not have to be given in the first place with the availability of properly dosed vitamin C."---Dr Thomas Levy M.D., J.D. (Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases and Toxins p30)

See: Homeopathy & Measles Naturopathy and measles Positive effect of childhood diseases

Malnutrition plays a significant part in measles deaths
"In 1980 approx 39% of the world's children (141 million) suffered from some degree of malnutrition."--The Malnourished Child by Robert Suskind, Louisiana State University School of Med.

Malnutrition is to blame for more than half of all the deaths of children around the world -- including deaths caused by diarrhea, pneumonia, malaria and measles, researchers said on Thursday. Poor nourishment leaves children underweight and weakened and vulnerable to infections that do not have to be fatal, the team at the World Health Organization and Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore found. They estimated that feeding all children worldwide an adequate diet would prevent about 1 million deaths a year from pneumonia, 800,000 from diarrhea, 500,000 from malaria, and 250,000 from measles...... They estimate that 52.5 percent of all deaths in young children were attributable to undernourishment, with nearly 45 percent of measles deaths and more than 60 percent of deaths from diarrhea associated with low weight and poor nutrition. [Media, Jun 17] Better Nutrition Could Save Millions of Kids-Study


so, if we fed them, they wouldn't get sick and die?? why, that's crazy talk!!! lets go stick em full of drugs instead, because big pharma tells us to.... that makes so much more sense...
2012-12-17 01:12:14 PM  
1 votes:

Flash_NYC: AngryPanda: Flash_NYC: Think about this: [lots of nonsense]

So the television affects their genetic programming as well? Autistic individuals are not brain damaged, their brains develop differently and they perceive senses differently.

The assertion you're making is quite insensitive to those who actually know autistic people - their brains are not damaged, they're just different.

No. Their brains could be genetically wired differently, which makes them, like people more susceptible to seizures, more prone to have damage done to crucial neural connection pathways while their not yet fully developed brain is trying to absorb those images.

There has been a huge uptick in the numbers of Autistic children in the USA in the last 20 years. Is it due to better diagnosis or due to some new external factors that have appeared. Children's television has come a long way since "Capt. Kangaroo" and "Mr. Rogers".

The least someone could do is look into how those editing techniques, which can cause issues with adults; from headaches to seizures; may be affecting infant brain development. Or it may not be.

Some doctors say there shouldn't be any TV before 1 or 2 years old. I don't know, but shouldn't someone at least try to study what the effects may, or may not be?


I don't know, but shouldn't someone at least try to read up on an issue and review the latest studies and research before spouting off his/her conjecture? Six months from now some idiot is going to spout "I heard online that there is this theory that it's children programming" and you will be responsible.

You honestly think researchers somehow ignored television? Something that is already heavily studied and tracked for all sorts of studies?

The stuff that is actually showing promise? Mother's use of anti-depressants during the first trimester. Probably a strong genetic component as well.
2012-12-17 12:03:00 PM  
1 votes:

Moonfisher: AngryPanda: Flash_NYC: Think about this: [lots of nonsense]

So the television affects their genetic programming as well? Autistic individuals are not brain damaged, their brains develop differently and they perceive senses differently.

The assertion you're making is quite insensitive to those who actually know autistic people - their brains are not damaged, they're just different.

This. My four-year-old is mildly autistic and my niece is severe. Before either child turned a year old, I knew something was different about them. The Children's Center for Excellence is San Diego that assessed my son are now able to diagnose the condition as early as 1. Their research thus far is heavily leaning towards a genetic predisposition that is triggered, possibly by maternal infection during pregnancy or exposure to environmental elements. It's all fascinating and is not going to be as simple as getting shots or seeing too much Elmo.


Well yes, but if they still aren't getting anywhere

vysharra: Think about this:

Could it be that the increase in autism is from the TV shows, for children, that feature that rapid, flashing, MTV-style editing being watched by very young children under 1 year old?

[...]

Just wondering if anyone has thought of this.

Plenty of people have tried that route and they are wrong. Signs of autism are visible in infancy in person and on MRI as well as some signs that can be observed in the womb. Autism is still "unknown" but it is entirely congenital and most likely has a combo of epigenic/environmental causes.


I did not know that autism can be observed in the womb. That would make a difference. I wonder what these signs are?
2012-12-17 12:00:48 PM  
1 votes:

desertmouse: They get a batch of vaccines injected right into their bloodstream their first week when most babies are about 6 or 7 pounds.


desertmouse: I have regrets about her getting the full battery when she wasn't even 6 pounds.


Your immune system does not work based on how much you weigh.
ape
2012-12-17 11:48:40 AM  
1 votes:
about 20 years ago they quit putting Thimerosal in eye drops. Turns out lots of people (myself included) were highly allergic to it. Didn't cause autism or death, but serious eye problems and allergic reactions.
2012-12-17 11:48:11 AM  
1 votes:

AngryPanda: Flash_NYC: Think about this: [lots of nonsense]

So the television affects their genetic programming as well? Autistic individuals are not brain damaged, their brains develop differently and they perceive senses differently.

The assertion you're making is quite insensitive to those who actually know autistic people - their brains are not damaged, they're just different.


This. My four-year-old is mildly autistic and my niece is severe. Before either child turned a year old, I knew something was different about them. The Children's Center for Excellence is San Diego that assessed my son are now able to diagnose the condition as early as 1. Their research thus far is heavily leaning towards a genetic predisposition that is triggered, possibly by maternal infection during pregnancy or exposure to environmental elements. It's all fascinating and is not going to be as simple as getting shots or seeing too much Elmo.
2012-12-17 11:46:49 AM  
1 votes:
Think about this:

Could it be that the increase in autism is from the TV shows, for children, that feature that rapid, flashing, MTV-style editing being watched by very young children under 1 year old?

[...]

Just wondering if anyone has thought of this.


Plenty of people have tried that route and they are wrong. Signs of autism are visible in infancy in person and on MRI as well as some signs that can be observed in the womb. Autism is still "unknown" but it is entirely congenital and most likely has a combo of epigenic/environmental causes.
2012-12-17 11:40:55 AM  
1 votes:

Felgraf: /Actually ARE their viruses that target plants?


Affirmative.

Wiki even indicates that the first discovered virus was a plant virus.
2012-12-17 11:26:46 AM  
1 votes:
I don't understand how Thimerosal can be blamed for autism when organomercury compounds are nearly ubiquitous in the environment and diet in quantities that vastly outweigh the amount one would receive in a vaccination. Nothing I have read or heard has addressed that. I am not agreeing with the premise that mercury may facilitate autism necessarily just saying that if you are going to blame Thimerosal you really have to put it into context of total mercury burden and all exposure routes.
2012-12-17 11:17:40 AM  
1 votes:

Felgraf: My objection to GMO's is more based on how the companies producing them ACT than the actual concept of GMO's in general.


Which is fine, as long as you keep the two firmly separated. There's work being done to make plant based vaccines, and anyone getting in the way of that has as much blood on their hands as the anti-vaxxers.
2012-12-17 11:16:52 AM  
1 votes:
The Thimerosal/autism belief is a good example how people will continue to hold a belief, even after it's been proven wrong.

See also: GOP platform.
2012-12-17 11:12:58 AM  
1 votes:
I, like you guys, have been speaking out against the anti vaxers since they became a thing. At this point, I don't care anymore. The planet is overpopulated, and if these idiots want to self select themselves to die, be my guest.

/yes, I know about herd immunity, but this herd needs thinning.
2012-12-17 11:12:43 AM  
1 votes:
Have no doubt the vaccines do not cause autism, but as someone who is highly allergic to Thimerosol, I wish there was a better preservative for stuff like flu vaccine.
2012-12-17 11:09:59 AM  
1 votes:

Holocaust Agnostic: Even if vaccinse DID cause autism at the rates they allege, its still better than being dead of frikkin measles.


I keep having to have this discussion with my sister. My nephew is autistic and while she's not an antivaxxer, she is a proponent of parents holding off or waiting for non-essential vaccines for their kids. I don't have a problem with her position but sometimes the language she uses is horrible "people need to know the side effects of getting vaccines" and I usually respond with "Yeah, polio, smallpox, and measles are pretty farking horrible side effects."
2012-12-17 11:09:46 AM  
1 votes:

lake_huron: As I mentioned in another thread, I just had an elderly patient in the hospital die of the flu.

I am still following another young, formerly completely healthy patient who is critically ill in the ICU more than two weeks after getting the flu, and then getting several flu-related complications.

Vaccines were developed for a reason.

/Don't get me started on the specious objections to GMOs.


Frick, I keep forgetting to get my flu vaccine.

/My objection to GMO's is more based on how the companies producing them ACT than the actual concept of GMO's in general.
2012-12-17 11:04:50 AM  
1 votes:
F*ck these people and their anti-scientific bull.

peterthx: What about the anti-genetic engineered food fundies who scare African governments into not accepting food and disease-resistant crops, resulting in mass starvation?


And f*ck them too.
2012-12-17 11:04:44 AM  
1 votes:
Even if vaccinse DID cause autism at the rates they allege, its still better than being dead of frikkin measles.
2012-12-17 11:04:41 AM  
1 votes:
Do you know who had fewer cases of polio last year than the US? India. farking India. Quit screwing around with proven vaccinations and let's cure the measles and whatever other treatable nasties are out there.
2012-12-17 10:55:16 AM  
1 votes:
Nearly 70000 died in India last year from measles.

/Come on folks we already let the fundies export the anti-gay rhetoric to Africa and now Uganda has the death penalty for gays, let's at least keep our idiots from spreading disinformation and fear to the third world.
2012-12-17 10:48:07 AM  
1 votes:

NuttierThanEver: Approximately 40000 children died in Africa last year due to measles alone


Sure, but I bet NONE of them got autism from thimerosol!
2012-12-17 10:44:27 AM  
1 votes:
Approximately 40000 children died in Africa last year due to measles alone
 
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