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(The New York Times)   As if a second to last place finish wasn't bad noughts , the NY Mets trade their lone bright spot from last season   (nytimes.com) divider line 73
    More: Fail, R.A. Dickey, Mets, Cy Young, inactive season, Toronto, bright spot, Josh Thole, Greg Maddux  
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981 clicks; posted to Sports » on 17 Dec 2012 at 10:30 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-17 10:35:09 AM
For best catcher prospect in baseball, a kid that throws upper 90's with control, and a power hitting back up catcher. Such a terrible deal for the Mets...
 
2012-12-17 10:37:25 AM
The Mets need a catcher. Their starting pitching is actually looking pretty good for next year so I think this is a good move.
 
2012-12-17 10:41:13 AM
This is weird. Does management actually have that much faith in JP?

Anyways:
Johnson
Morrow
Buerhle
Dickey
Romero

FAAAARRRRRKKKKK YEEEAAHHHH. Plus now Hutchinson will get the chance to actually develop.
 
2012-12-17 10:41:57 AM
With the NHL probably done for the year, I have to say I'm looking forward to April. Even if the Jays dbarely break .500,

AA at least tried to do something. Haven't been this pumped for ball since the early '90s
 
2012-12-17 10:42:09 AM
LOL the mets.
 
2012-12-17 10:47:12 AM
I miss the days of Steinbrenner Sr. when he would get insanely jealous if the Mets had the back page headlines and went and said something controversial or made a trade just to steal the limelight back.
 
2012-12-17 10:47:18 AM
"bad noughts"?

assets0.notonthehighstreet.com

/GIS for "bad noughts"
 
2012-12-17 10:51:57 AM
He'll be missed, but looking at the long term, it's probably the right move.
/going to be a long season
 
2012-12-17 10:52:46 AM
If they didn't move Dickey, the 2013 Mets would be the same as the 2012 Mets, who (as subby pointed out) finished in second to last place. They were going to move someone, and the practical options were David Wright, who's in his mid-twenties, and RA, who's in his late 30s.

The Mets aren't one or two years from a championship, which would justify holding on to an aging pitcher for a couple years; they are (or should be) in serious rebuilding mode. When you're in rebuilding mode, you trade the guys who aren't going to be there in 5 years for guys who will.
 
2012-12-17 10:56:08 AM
What do good noughts look like?
 
2012-12-17 10:58:03 AM

thecpt: Johnson
Morrow
Buerhle
Dickey
Romero


I hope your intention wasn't to list that in a "best-to-worst" type rotation. As a Jays fan myself I think Morrow retains the incumbent ace status and goes opening day, but I think Dickey is the best pitcher on that staff. But yeah, if Romero is even slightly back to form next year it's a deadly rotation.

Mets fans should be happy too. They weren't going to compete the next couple years, but once they're ready, D'Arnaud and Syndergaard have a chance to be very, very special players.
 
2012-12-17 11:04:59 AM

puckrock2000: "bad noughts"?

[assets0.notonthehighstreet.com image 850x617]

/GIS for "bad noughts"


*sigh*
I miss the old GIS.. would've gotten NSFW noughts in the first 3 results
 
2012-12-17 11:06:14 AM
John Buck?

The Mets agreed to take John Buck?

I'd be less upset over losing Dickey than taking on Buck.
 
2012-12-17 11:06:40 AM
Well, it could be worse, Mets fans.

At least they're not the Marlins.
 
2012-12-17 11:07:33 AM
Dickey was excited about the contract until he found out about the exchange rate, what a loonie.
 
2012-12-17 11:15:12 AM

dukeblue219: I hope your intention wasn't to list that in a "best-to-worst" type rotation. As a Jays fan myself I think Morrow retains the incumbent ace status and goes opening day, but I think Dickey is the best pitcher on that staff. But yeah, if Romero is even slightly back to form next year it's a deadly rotation.


Kind of haphazardly listed that way. It doesn't really matter to me who is the "ace" between Dickey and Morrow. Dickey had one great year and Morrow showed he was building towards a potential Cy Young caliber year. Johnson is capable of having an incredible year too, and Buerhle had a great bounce back year. That starting rotation will average 7.5 innings pitched a game, so I'm just having trouble containing excitement. Not to mention our new hitting lineup.
 
2012-12-17 11:19:09 AM
It was a no win situation for the mets. Dickey said he wouldn't resign if he didn't get an extension. The mets have a long, long history of paying a ton of money for someone who looks great on paper and getting burned. I mean, they are STILL paying bobby bonilla for what, the next 20 years or something?

So yea, Dickey was a great guy, sad to see him go, but I'd also like the mets to be responsible in how they spend money. They tried spending like the yankees already, and that didn't work.
 
2012-12-17 11:37:47 AM
Ok, so:

R.A. Dickey is one of my all-time favorites and I hate to see him go. But the Mets have to do this trade. I mean, an expensive 38 year-old pitcher for a potential all-star catcher (!) with 6 years of team control and a highly-rated pitching prospect? If the team isn't going to be a contender this year, it's a no-brainer.
 
2012-12-17 11:39:16 AM
 
2012-12-17 11:41:18 AM

ralanprod: John Buck?

The Mets agreed to take John Buck?

I'd be less upset over losing Dickey than taking on Buck.


It's switching Buck for Thole. I actually liked Thole but he's a singles hitter on the occasions when he does hit. Buck at least offers a little something in the way of power, so I have no problem with it. That's a secondary part of the trade anyway.
 
2012-12-17 11:43:48 AM
So anyone brave enough to make their AL East predictions yet? Right now I can see any team sans the Red Sox taking it this year.

/NL East is much easier
//Nats > Braves > Phils > Mets > Chicos Bail Bonds > Marlins
 
2012-12-17 11:47:40 AM
When your team isn't going to compete next year, that bright spot is a 38 year old who wants a contract extension, and you can get some very good prospects in return, you make the trade
 
2012-12-17 11:50:45 AM
Was doing some googling, because I couldn't remember whether heat & humidity were better or worse for a knuckleball (IIRC worse, but can't find an answer). But I did find something interesting: apparently, a knuckleball works best thrown into the wind, and worst when thrown with it.

Home plate in Toronto faces the lake, and the permanently closed end of the dome is in centerfield. This could be really, really good for Dickey at home.
 
2012-12-17 11:54:04 AM

FreakinB: ralanprod: John Buck?

The Mets agreed to take John Buck?

I'd be less upset over losing Dickey than taking on Buck.

It's switching Buck for Thole. I actually liked Thole but he's a singles hitter on the occasions when he does hit. Buck at least offers a little something in the way of power, so I have no problem with it. That's a secondary part of the trade anyway.


Isn't Thole Dickey's personal catcher? Genearally knuckerballers take the back up catcher as their personal one. makes sense to swap the catchers.

Kind of sucks for Tholes; "sorry, your teammate won't sign a new contract so we traded you to Canada."
 
2012-12-17 12:03:36 PM

Gunny Highway: The Mets need a catcher. Their starting pitching is actually looking pretty good for next year so I think this is a good move.


"You have to have a catcher or you'll have all passed balls."
Casey Stengel
 
2012-12-17 12:06:03 PM

bacongood: FreakinB: ralanprod: John Buck?

The Mets agreed to take John Buck?

I'd be less upset over losing Dickey than taking on Buck.

It's switching Buck for Thole. I actually liked Thole but he's a singles hitter on the occasions when he does hit. Buck at least offers a little something in the way of power, so I have no problem with it. That's a secondary part of the trade anyway.

Isn't Thole Dickey's personal catcher? Genearally knuckerballers take the back up catcher as their personal one. makes sense to swap the catchers.

Kind of sucks for Tholes; "sorry, your teammate won't sign a new contract so we traded you to Canada."


Calling him the "personal catcher" is a bit limiting. He was Dickey's catcher, but he also was the primary catcher.
 
2012-12-17 12:08:55 PM
Subby, do you mean a fail for the Mets?? Because where I'm from, selling high is something you want to do.
 
2012-12-17 12:12:40 PM

bacongood: FreakinB: ralanprod: John Buck?


Kind of sucks for Tholes; "sorry, your teammate won't sign a new contract so we traded you to Canada."


"Sorry Tholes, old buddy. We're trading you to a contender. They might actually have a legit chance this year with all the big moves they've made. The whole country is pumped for the season to start."
"Canada, You traded me to Canada? The exchange rate, the taxes, the politeness, oh my God!"
 
2012-12-17 12:16:37 PM

Decillion: bacongood: FreakinB: ralanprod: John Buck?


Kind of sucks for Tholes; "sorry, your teammate won't sign a new contract so we traded you to Canada."

"Sorry Tholes, old buddy. We're trading you to a contender. They might actually have a legit chance this year with all the big moves they've made. The whole country is pumped for the season to start."
"Canada, You traded me to Canada? The exchange rate, the taxes, the politeness, oh my God!"


It sounds like some good job security too. Not that good with a bat? Doesn't matter. You can catch our knuckler.
 
2012-12-17 12:21:49 PM

The Bestest: So anyone brave enough to make their AL East predictions yet? Right now I can see any team sans the Red Sox taking it this year.


Call me crazy, but I still don't think the Orioles are anything special.

So I'm probably gonna go Jays-Rays-Yanks-Sox-O's
 
2012-12-17 12:28:24 PM
I know this was the smart thing for the Mets to do. I don't expect them to win either way, but I enjoyed having something to look forward to every 5 games.
 
2012-12-17 01:04:43 PM

Nothing To See Here: Dickey was excited about the contract until he found out about the exchange rate, what a loonie.


do you mean the canadian dollar that is higher than the american, and has been all year?
 
2012-12-17 01:05:03 PM

thecpt: Dickey had one great year and Morrow showed he was building towards a potential Cy Young caliber year. Johnson is capable of having an incredible year too, and Buerhle had a great bounce back year. That starting rotation will average 7.5 innings pitched a game, so I'm just having trouble containing excitement. Not to mention our new hitting lineup.


Dickey was actually pretty good in 2010 and 2011 too. His K rate spiked in 2012 and his performance moved into the "great" realm, but even if he reverts to his 2010/2011 form he'll be an asset.
 
2012-12-17 01:19:13 PM

RumsfeldsReplacement: Subby, do you mean a fail for the Mets?? Because where I'm from, selling high is something you want to do.


Sure that may work in a City like New York with their stock exchanges and historical trading significance, but try that in the Met's town (New Jersey) and you'll get sideways looks from everyone.
 
2012-12-17 01:25:21 PM
This article sucks and this deal was great for the Mets.

I love Dickey, but it's the right move.
 
2012-12-17 02:31:29 PM
At first I was all:

images.sodahead.com

But then I took a second to think about it and calmed myself down and now I'm all:

pjmedia.com

I would have loved to seen Dickey stick around with the Mets, but going for younger prospects makes sense for a team that desperately needs to rebuild.
 
2012-12-17 02:49:51 PM
the extension is done, all that's left is the physical

in other news, Astros give Carlos Pena 2.9(+1.4)/1 and Red Sox give Stephen Drew 9.5/1
 
2012-12-17 04:04:23 PM
Good move for both teams. The deal is a perfect example of a mutually beneficial trade with one team looking to win now and the other looking further into the future.

Reminds me a lot of the Halladay trade 3 years ago. A team not expected to compete in the immediate future sending out a big name pitcher at the end of his contract who will most likely be leaving after the next season to a team looking to contend right now in exchange for Travis d'Arnaud and some other prospects.
So many Jays fans were livid about trading Doc, but I was entirely for it as I think Mets fans should be with this trade (and the prospects will probably have an impact sooner and are more reliable than the Jays got for Halladay). As much as I liked Halladay and would have wanted to keep him in Toronto he was leaving and they weren't looking to win that year. Just think, today that trade allowed them to bring in Dickey.

If they thought they had a chance resign him (at what they viewed as a reasonable figure), I doubt this deal would happen. At the very least it would feature some big leaguers. And you also have to remember that Dickey is 38. Sure he is a knuckleballer, but you have to be worried about his long term prospects as injury risk gets higher even if other impacts of age (stamina and velocity decreases) have less of an impact.
 
2012-12-17 05:28:08 PM
www.ifc.com
Bad Micronoughts
 
2012-12-17 05:28:23 PM

Decillion: bacongood: FreakinB: ralanprod: John Buck?


Kind of sucks for Tholes; "sorry, your teammate won't sign a new contract so we traded you to Canada."

"Sorry Tholes, old buddy. We're trading you to a contender. They might actually have a legit chance this year with all the big moves they've made. The whole country is pumped for the season to start."
"Canada, You traded me to Canada? The exchange rate, the taxes, the politeness, oh my God!"


Thole, after increasing his IQ from just the contact high of being in Canada....

"You mean that colorful money, that has all that newfangled cutting edge technology is actually at a higher rate compared to the greenback? People in Toronto are super nice to me wherever I go and the ladies here are second to none. I can easily spend the rest of my career here, and settle down with a Toronto beauty...I see that HOFer, Robbie Alomar did just that last week. The taxes, eh, you get used to them, I understand they go towards that free health care thing that everyone complains about down south. Man, it's awesome being in Toronto."

After being with the Jays....

"I don't get this bro speak between JP and Lawrie. It's like they are talking in code everytime I see them, I guess that IQ part didn't rub off on either of them, and Lawrie is FROM here? No way, brah...ahh, I think I am getting the hang of it! Hey guys! I can talk like you two now...Hey Lawrie, so when are we meeting your little rocket? Hook this bro UP!"


/in all fairness JP does some great work with Sick Kids hospital here, so major kudos from me. I can never dislike him because of that work.
//Lawrie's rocket is smoking
///Ok, Blue Jays, Lets...Play...Ball!
 
2012-12-17 05:32:29 PM
I find it funny how many people seem to think that Dickey is being shipped off to the middle of nowhere. Toronto is one of the what, 5 largest cities with a major league team? And it's about as close to Dickey's residence in Nashville as New York is.

/Dickey, Thole, Nickeas for D'arnaud, Syndergaard, Buck, and whatever the heck a Wuilmer Becerra is.
//woooooo
 
2012-12-17 05:39:22 PM
This has got to be the first trade involving 4 catchers ever, right?
 
2012-12-17 05:45:36 PM

Dafatone: I find it funny how many people seem to think that Dickey is being shipped off to the middle of nowhere. Toronto is one of the what, 5 largest cities with a major league team? And it's about as close to Dickey's residence in Nashville as New York is.

/Dickey, Thole, Nickeas for D'arnaud, Syndergaard, Buck, and whatever the heck a Wuilmer Becerra is.
//woooooo


and those people havent picked up a sports paper since the world series or they might have seen a few other trades the jays have made. Might actually see them get over that hump again this year if everyone gels together and sees the potential.
 
2012-12-17 05:48:59 PM

Dafatone: I find it funny how many people seem to think that Dickey is being shipped off to the middle of nowhere. Toronto is one of the what, 5 largest cities with a major league team? And it's about as close to Dickey's residence in Nashville as New York is.

/Dickey, Thole, Nickeas for D'arnaud, Syndergaard, Buck, and whatever the heck a Wuilmer Becerra is.
//woooooo


I didn't realize Nickeas had been tossed into the deal. That's actually a bummer. I loved watching Dickey and think he was badly treated in this deal, but I still understand the deal. If D'Arnaud lives up to his prospective ability, we'll have a franchise catcher and if Synergaard is capable of being a 3 or 4 guy in the rotation, well...we might have a special rotation for a long while with Harvey, Wheeler, and Niese. But I really like Nickeas and think that since the deal already included Thole, this diminishes the value of the trade for the Mets.
 
2012-12-17 05:52:44 PM

Dafatone: whatever the heck a Wuilmer Becerra is.


An 18 year old Venezuelan kid in Rookie Ball. He was considered a hot prospect in Spring Training, but got hurt early last season and is a long way from the show. A nice little piece for the Mets to fill out the deal with, though.
 
2012-12-17 06:10:41 PM

mrjared: But I really like Nickeas and think that since the deal already included Thole, this diminishes the value of the trade for the Mets.


I hate to be a dick, but... why?

He's a pretty solid defensive backstop, but he's old enough (30 I think?) that his bat isn't really going to develop further, and it's pretty terrible. Granted, almost all catchers nowadays can't hit, so at least he provides cheap defense, but I'm not too broken up about losing him. Better him than a guy with potential, and gaining an 18 year old outfielder with some upside as well is nice.
 
2012-12-17 06:12:53 PM
Never underestimate the catcher

The last 2 Mets World Series Appearances were anchored by Hall of Fame catchers

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

Even the Yankees 23 of 27 Title reigns were won with 4 catchers,3 HOFers and one who would have been if not for the plane crash

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com

encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2012-12-17 06:28:04 PM

hbk72777: 3 HOFers


I'm not saying Jorge WON'T be a HOFer, because we all know how much voters love Yankees & rings.

But I've never seen any real sort of analysis that has him as anything better than "just short of the Hall." HOF Monitor, which should favor him the most, has him at 98 (greater than 100 means the voters will probably vote for him). HOF Standards has him at 40 (the median HOFer is at 50). JAWS has him at 19th best catcher. Impressive, but still behind non-HOFers like Torre, Simmons, Tenace, Freehan and, yes, Munson. It's worth noting that the 20th catcher in JAWS is Jason Kendall, so that's fun. The Hall of Stats gives him an 87 rating (greater than 100 is Hall Worthy)

So, yeah, he could get in. But he probably doesn't deserve it.
 
2012-12-17 06:29:17 PM

DeWayne Mann: hbk72777: 3 HOFers

I'm not saying Jorge WON'T be a HOFer, because we all know how much voters love Yankees & rings.

But I've never seen any real sort of analysis that has him as anything better than "just short of the Hall." HOF Monitor, which should favor him the most, has him at 98 (greater than 100 means the voters will probably vote for him). HOF Standards has him at 40 (the median HOFer is at 50). JAWS has him at 19th best catcher. Impressive, but still behind non-HOFers like Torre, Simmons, Tenace, Freehan and, yes, Munson. It's worth noting that the 20th catcher in JAWS is Jason Kendall, so that's fun. The Hall of Stats gives him an 87 rating (greater than 100 is Hall Worthy)

So, yeah, he could get in. But he probably doesn't deserve it.


I agree, though a good argument can be made that he's one of the best catchers of his era. Behind Piazza and Pudge, which is probably enough to keep him out.
 
2012-12-17 06:33:42 PM

Dafatone: I agree, though a good argument can be made that he's one of the best catchers of his era. Behind Piazza and Pudge, which is probably enough to keep him out.


What I found interesting in my quick search is that Mauer is ALREADY ahead of him in all but HOF Monitor (thanks to the RINGS)...and even that's getting close (Mauer is at 85).

Oh, and that Lance Parrish hit 324 HRs. Does that surprise anyone else? I know he played forever, but that's more than, say, George Brett...who played even longer. It's the same amount as Gary Carter!
 
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