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(Digital Journal)   Mother of Connecticut school gunman was a paranoid survivalist whom was stockpiling guns and food in preparation of the upcoming global collapse   (digitaljournal.com) divider line 789
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25413 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Dec 2012 at 12:49 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-17 08:52:06 AM
So a Teabagger then
 
2012-12-17 09:12:21 AM
Police say that when his body was found, he carried a third semi-automatic pistol in his military-style cargo pants

Clearly, we need to ban military style cargo pants.
 
2012-12-17 09:18:14 AM
Glenn Beck seen smiling and nodding slowly.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-17 09:30:58 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Police say that when his body was found, he carried a third semi-automatic pistol in his military-style cargo pants

Clearly, we need to ban military style cargo pants.


If the victims had had military style cargo pants this wouldn't have happened.
 
2012-12-17 09:51:50 AM

El_Frijole_Blanco: So a Teabagger then

 
2012-12-17 09:53:00 AM
She gets the fail award of the year for believing that having assault weapons in her home would make her safe. Now that entire community is paying for her ignorance.
 
2012-12-17 09:54:41 AM
If only she had more guns, she might've been safer.
 
2012-12-17 09:55:37 AM

Sleeping Monkey: She gets the fail award of the year for believing that having assault weapons in her home would make her safe. Now that entire community is paying for her ignorance.


If she had them properly secured in a gun safe, she wouldn't have been able to get them out in time to repel the coming North Korean invasion.
 
2012-12-17 09:56:03 AM
Nancy Lanza was reportedly "struggling to hold herself together and had been stockpiling food, water and guns in the large home she shared with her 20-year-old son in Connecticut.

"Mrs Lanza, 52, was a 'prepper' - so called because they are preparing for a breakdown in civilized society - who apparently became obsessed with guns and taught Adam and his older brother, Ryan, how to shoot, even taking them to local ranges."


The apple did not fall far from the tree, it does appear.
 
2012-12-17 09:57:18 AM
Well, at least she got to exemplify having her guns taken from her cold dead hands.

Vive la Heston!
 
2012-12-17 09:57:54 AM
Survivalist? Oh please........

Yeah, cause you know, when society breaks down, the first things the Godless Sodomite Philistines will come for are the homes valued around $600k and up 

Connecticut shooter Adam Lanza and family members revealed
(examiner.com)
 
2012-12-17 09:59:15 AM
Well... The important thing is that her 2nd Amendment rights weren't infringed upon. That would have been the real tragedy here, and we should be thankful that she died free.
 
2012-12-17 10:00:57 AM

homelessdude: Survivalist? Oh please........

Yeah, cause you know, when society breaks down, the first things the Godless Sodomite Philistines will come for are the homes valued around $600k and up 

Connecticut shooter Adam Lanza and family members revealed
(examiner.com)


 
Why wasn't that crazy lady more logical?
 
2012-12-17 10:03:29 AM
First rule of surviving total societal breakdown: surviving until society breaks down.
 
2012-12-17 10:04:08 AM
Guess she was going it wrong.
 
2012-12-17 10:07:31 AM
Court ordered mandatory psychological exams, then involuntary institutionalisation.

We are allowing too many whack jobs to roam freely.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-12-17 10:10:53 AM

homelessdude: Survivalist? Oh please........

Yeah, cause you know, when society breaks down, the first things the Godless Sodomite Philistines will come for are the homes valued around $600k and up 

Connecticut shooter Adam Lanza and family members revealed
(examiner.com)


What sort of survivalist thinks a house in a suburb is the place to survive the collapse of civilization? What do they think? That they are going to fight their way to Safeway to get food?
 
2012-12-17 10:12:54 AM

SlothB77: First rule of surviving total societal breakdown: surviving until society breaks down.


wow... i actually agreed with that.
 
2012-12-17 10:13:30 AM

Sleeping Monkey: She gets the fail award of the year for believing that having assault weapons in her home would make her safe. Now that entire community is paying for her ignorance.


Cadaver Trial, anyone?
 
2012-12-17 10:15:12 AM
maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.
 
2012-12-17 10:18:31 AM

vpb: homelessdude: Survivalist? Oh please........

Yeah, cause you know, when society breaks down, the first things the Godless Sodomite Philistines will come for are the homes valued around $600k and up 

Connecticut shooter Adam Lanza and family members revealed
(examiner.com)

What sort of survivalist thinks a house in a suburb is the place to survive the collapse of civilization? What do they think? That they are going to fight their way to Safeway to get food?


Their basement is probably packed with food and supplies.
 
2012-12-17 10:18:53 AM

Since she divorced Peter, Nancy has had no need to work because she receives $200,000 in support from Peter Lanza


2%er problems.
 
2012-12-17 10:19:38 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.



Agreed
 
2012-12-17 10:20:20 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.


hey, I like those stories!

on a more serious note - not all preppers are crazy, but a lot of crazy people are preppers. given the situation after hurricane katrina or again after hurricane sandy...preparing for a long term disruption of power and food distribution systems is starting to look like plain common sense and not an indication of crazy loonie toons insanity.
 
2012-12-17 10:24:17 AM
Rich white people have lost their gotdamn minds!
 
2012-12-17 10:25:39 AM

Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.

hey, I like those stories!


Yes, let's eliminate the First Amendment to protect the Second.
 
2012-12-17 10:26:03 AM

minoridiot: Since she divorced Peter, Nancy has had no need to work because she receives $200,000 in support from Peter Lanza.


We either need to ban rich people, the unemployed, or single mothers. I'm trying to decide which.
 
2012-12-17 10:27:25 AM

Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.

hey, I like those stories!

on a more serious note - not all preppers are crazy, but a lot of crazy people are preppers. given the situation after hurricane katrina or again after hurricane sandy...preparing for a long term disruption of power and food distribution systems is starting to look like plain common sense and not an indication of crazy loonie toons insanity.


Sure but do you need Kevlar and an arsenal to withstand a bad Nor'easter
 
2012-12-17 10:28:24 AM
I also heard that he was wearing a lot of pouches, which means we need to ban Rob Liefeld.
 
2012-12-17 10:29:22 AM

FlashHarry: SlothB77: First rule of surviving total societal breakdown: surviving until society breaks down.

wow... i actually agreed with that.


Guns may be one topic we actually agree with each other on.
 
2012-12-17 10:30:19 AM

El_Frijole_Blanco: Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.

hey, I like those stories!

on a more serious note - not all preppers are crazy, but a lot of crazy people are preppers. given the situation after hurricane katrina or again after hurricane sandy...preparing for a long term disruption of power and food distribution systems is starting to look like plain common sense and not an indication of crazy loonie toons insanity.

Sure but do you need Kevlar and an arsenal to withstand a bad Nor'easter


after some of the stories that came out after Katrina and NOLA....I'd want to make sure I could bunker down for a while too. cops shooting civilians, looting, no government in sight....i'm just saying that some level of personal protection isn't unreasonable. it depends on where you live tho, some neighborhoods are going to be better able to withstand long term disruptions than others.
 
2012-12-17 10:30:57 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Police say that when his body was found, he carried a third semi-automatic pistol in his military-style cargo pants

Clearly, we need to ban military style cargo pants.



Old Navy Surplus!
 
2012-12-17 10:31:57 AM

homelessdude: Connecticut shooter Adam Lanza and family members revealed
(examiner.com)


...and lived with his mother at 36 Yogananda Street in Newtown




Yoganandaji weeps....
 
2012-12-17 10:32:31 AM

PreMortem: Court ordered mandatory psychological exams, then involuntary institutionalisation.

We are allowing too many whack jobs to roam freely.



Think of the number of Farkers who would suddenly be free to post 24/7 from a padded cell on government paid for laptops...
 
2012-12-17 10:33:43 AM

SlothB77: Nancy Lanza was reportedly "struggling to hold herself together and had been stockpiling food, water and guns in the large home she shared with her 20-year-old son in Connecticut.

"Mrs Lanza, 52, was a 'prepper' - so called because they are preparing for a breakdown in civilized society - who apparently became obsessed with guns and taught Adam and his older brother, Ryan, how to shoot, even taking them to local ranges."

The apple did not fall far from the tree, it does appear.


Not if it knows what's good for it.

Oh, sure, I'll give it a head start. If it tries to escape by rolling downhill, though, it's BLAMMO! Applesauce everywhere!
 
2012-12-17 10:35:39 AM

Diogenes: Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.

hey, I like those stories!

Yes, let's eliminate the First Amendment to protect the Second.


I didn't say that the government should step in an stop it.

The press and hollywood could have a bit of restraint and not put out those stories or those types of shows.
 
2012-12-17 10:38:19 AM

El_Frijole_Blanco: So a Teabagger Mormon then


FTFY
 
2012-12-17 10:38:22 AM

tenpoundsofcheese: Diogenes: Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.

hey, I like those stories!

Yes, let's eliminate the First Amendment to protect the Second.

I didn't say that the government should step in an stop it.

The press and hollywood could have a bit of restraint and not put out those stories or those types of shows.


So could gun owners. No provision is absolute.
 
2012-12-17 10:38:29 AM
Wait, I thought it was video games that did this?  Or maybe immunizations caused his autism/mental health issues?  Or was it that he was taking college courses at age 16?
 
2012-12-17 10:42:58 AM

Raharu: Glenn Beck seen smiling and nodding slowly.


why? I thought he is promoting gun safes on his show.

would have been good if her guns were locked up.
 
2012-12-17 10:43:19 AM

tenpoundsofcheese:

I didn't say that the government should step in an stop it.

The press and hollywood could have a bit of restraint and not put out those stories or those types of shows.


but I thought you were against interfering in the free market...?
 
2012-12-17 10:43:26 AM

Mentat: I also heard that he was wearing a lot of pouches, which means we need to ban Rob Liefeld.



I've been saying this for years.
 
2012-12-17 10:44:20 AM

SnarfVader: El_Frijole_Blanco: So a Teabagger Mormon then

FTFY


I've gotta say, there are a lot of Mormon teabaggers. But we're talking about Connecticut, not Utah or Idaho or Arizona. I'll bet she was just crackers. Also, most Mormons put more emphasis on food and water storage, and sometimes even ham radio usage, than getting worked up about gun porn. The ones I know who are packing are packing silently (talked to two middle-aged Mormon ladies over the weekend who both have CCW, and you'd never guess).
 
2012-12-17 10:44:27 AM

Diogenes: tenpoundsofcheese: Diogenes: Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.

hey, I like those stories!

Yes, let's eliminate the First Amendment to protect the Second.

I didn't say that the government should step in an stop it.

The press and hollywood could have a bit of restraint and not put out those stories or those types of shows.

So could gun owners. No provision is absolute.


sure. it isn't as if there is only one thing wrong.
but the press and hollywood do seem to their end of world stories and their violent shows.
 
2012-12-17 10:51:28 AM

SnarfVader: El_Frijole_Blanco: So a Teabagger Mormon then

FTFY


Often the same thing
 
2012-12-17 10:53:23 AM
How exactly owning a long list of devices that are primarily designed to kill makes you safer is anyone's guess.
 
2012-12-17 10:54:28 AM

I_C_Weener: Marcus Aurelius: Police say that when his body was found, he carried a third semi-automatic pistol in his military-style cargo pants

Clearly, we need to ban military style cargo pants.


Old Navy Surplus!



Old Navy Surplus!!!  Nothing?  Not one goddamn "funny" click?
 
2012-12-17 11:10:35 AM

FlashHarry: SlothB77: First rule of surviving total societal breakdown: surviving until society breaks down.

wow... i actually agreed with that.


Wow, totally surprising. First rule of not starving is eating! You can get with that, right?
 
2012-12-17 11:11:33 AM
Gee, who would have thought that being a paranoid survivalist stockpiling guns with a mentally disturbed child in the house would end up being a really stupid idea. I wish this woman wasn't dead because if her son hadn't shot her first, I'd be demanding her ass be put on trial for all 26 dead bodies her son racked up. She helped create the monster, she should have been made to pay for it.
 
2012-12-17 11:17:02 AM

jaylectricity: FlashHarry: SlothB77: First rule of surviving total societal breakdown: surviving until society breaks down.

wow... i actually agreed with that.

Wow, totally surprising. First rule of not starving is eating! You can get with that, right?


I'm sorry, you are breaking the first rule of Eat Club.
 
2012-12-17 11:29:47 AM

hinten: How exactly owning a long list of devices that are primarily designed to kill makes you safer is anyone's guess.


don't you watch Walking Dead?
 
2012-12-17 11:54:12 AM

jaylectricity: Wow, totally surprising. First rule of not starving is eating! You can get with that, right?


are you familiar with SlothB77?
 
2012-12-17 11:56:24 AM

I_C_Weener: I_C_Weener: Marcus Aurelius: Police say that when his body was found, he carried a third semi-automatic pistol in his military-style cargo pants

Clearly, we need to ban military style cargo pants.


Old Navy Surplus!


Old Navy Surplus!!!  Nothing?  Not one goddamn "funny" click?



You didn't mention the performance fleece
 
2012-12-17 11:59:22 AM

Coco LaFemme: Gee, who would have thought that being a paranoid survivalist stockpiling guns with a mentally disturbed child in the house would end up being a really stupid idea. I wish this woman wasn't dead because if her son hadn't shot her first, I'd be demanding her ass be put on trial for all 26 dead bodies her son racked up. She helped create the monster, she should have been made to pay for it.


This 1000x times this.

The whole media "tragedy" angle is missing one fundamental fact: This family spawned this effed up asswit kid, and probably fought to keep him out of treatment or custody. Every damn one of them should be held accountable. But since justice happened to the mom, I guess we can start with the Ernst and Young VP dad. The one dumping the mom in 2009, the same year she quit her job to homeschool lil shooter Adam.
 
2012-12-17 12:12:06 PM

Mentat: I also heard that he was wearing a lot of pouches, which means we need to ban Rob Liefeld.


I can get behind that.
 
2012-12-17 12:21:43 PM

FlashHarry: jaylectricity: Wow, totally surprising. First rule of not starving is eating! You can get with that, right?

are you familiar with SlothB77?


Let's not do this. I said i agree with you on guns. No need to go out and discredit me yet again.
 
2012-12-17 12:21:50 PM
I understand the gun control debate, but can we address the serious derp problem we have in this country?
 
2012-12-17 12:37:34 PM
She could afford those guns but couldn't afford a gun safe.

Isn't it time that we paid our kindergarten teachers more?
 
2012-12-17 12:41:49 PM
Stocking up on some extra water, easy-to-prepare food and propane canisters in anticipation of losing power for a few days when a severe storm strikes: not crazy.
Six tons of "Apocalypse Chow" and an armory a Somali warlord would beat off to so you can become Lord Humongous when the Mummy Uprising strikes (the zombies are just a ploy): crazy.
 
2012-12-17 12:43:06 PM

FlashHarry: jaylectricity: Wow, totally surprising. First rule of not starving is eating! You can get with that, right?

are you familiar with SlothB77?


No, but it seems a bit of unnecessary trolling to call him out for saying something obvious pretending it's an opinion that he finally has that lines up with yours.

But maybe I just don't get the joke.
 
2012-12-17 12:47:20 PM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Stocking up on some extra water, easy-to-prepare food and propane canisters in anticipation of losing power for a few days when a severe storm strikes: not crazy.


Any given time I have around 2 weeks worth of food and water. Not because I'm a doomsday prepper, but because I live in a hurricane friendly path in summer/fall, and ice-storm happening area in winter/spring. It's just what you do.

/that and I HATE going to the grocery store every week
//plus, the only thing I normally need to go pick up before an inevitable storm is more alcohol.
 
2012-12-17 12:51:16 PM

El_Frijole_Blanco: So a Teabagger then


How exciting for you. You must be so happy.
 
Xai
2012-12-17 12:52:22 PM

El_Frijole_Blanco: So a Teabagger then

 
2012-12-17 12:53:25 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Diogenes: Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.

hey, I like those stories!

Yes, let's eliminate the First Amendment to protect the Second.

I didn't say that the government should step in an stop it.

The press and hollywood could have a bit of restraint and not put out those stories or those types of shows.


It's fiction. When people start reacting badly IRL to fiction, the problem is not with the creators of the fiction. Hint: crazy people are crazy.
 
2012-12-17 12:53:43 PM
So M. Night Sha-na-na-na-myolin rama ding dong is now writing scripts for reality?

It's a twissst!
 
2012-12-17 12:54:12 PM

El_Frijole_Blanco: So a Teabagger then


lol self reliance is something a liberal will never learn.
 
2012-12-17 12:54:17 PM
Why do I get the feeling that the"preppers" will cause the breakdown of our society?
 
2012-12-17 12:55:07 PM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Six tons of "Apocalypse Chow" and an armory a Somali warlord would beat off to


There is a lot of beating off going on over this whole mess.

People. This shiat happens.
You can't stop it.

We all die.
It's how we live that counts.

Hug your kids. Don't be a nutjob parent. Keep the dangerous shiat locked up.
If your kid is a dangerous shiat, keep him locked up, too.
 
2012-12-17 12:55:10 PM

Generation_D: The whole media "tragedy" angle is missing one fundamental fact: This family spawned this effed up asswit kid, and probably fought to keep him out of treatment or custody. Every damn one of them should be held accountable. But since justice happened to the mom, I guess we can start with the Ernst and Young VP dad. The one dumping the mom in 2009, the same year she quit her job to homeschool lil shooter Adam.


Hold on, now, I'm not sure how culpable the dad is at this point. Hell, the reason for the divorce may have been *related* to the fact that the son was Looney Tunes and the mom wouldn't get help/admit it/whatever.

/Or the crazy of both of them together caused him to go "Fark this, I'm out.".
 
2012-12-17 12:55:10 PM

coco ebert: Rich white people have lost their gotdamn minds!


You're just realizing that?.
 
2012-12-17 12:55:34 PM
I think 'end of the world' scenarios have really warped the brains of some people in society. And all this doomsday crap is driving people to do crazy things. I wouldn't be surprised if some people snap on December 21 thinking the world is ending when really it farking isn't. Everyone seems to think the world ends on Friday but has no farking clue how it will.
 
2012-12-17 12:55:47 PM
she was also, apparently very kind and generous so, you say tomato..

Link
 
2012-12-17 12:56:09 PM
so having a couple hundred rounds of ammo in your house makes you a prepper?

I was a prepper and didn't even know it.
 
2012-12-17 12:56:13 PM
I've heard so much in the news that turned out to be false about this that, I am skeptical of everything they say now.
 
2012-12-17 12:56:23 PM
If a teacher would have been armed, he wouldn't have gotten very far.
 
2012-12-17 12:56:27 PM
There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.
 
2012-12-17 12:57:28 PM

TIKIMAN87: El_Frijole_Blanco: So a Teabagger then

lol self reliance is something a liberal will never learn.


Good thing that rugged survivalist was ready when a man with a gun showed up.
 
2012-12-17 12:57:33 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: She could afford those guns but couldn't afford a gun safe.

Isn't it time that we paid our kindergarten teachers more?


She wasn't a teacher, she was living on alimony.
 
2012-12-17 12:57:39 PM
She did a shiat job of securing her weapons, then.
 
2012-12-17 12:58:03 PM

HotWingConspiracy: There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.


Lazy troll is extremely lazy
 
2012-12-17 12:58:14 PM
Survivalism claims another 27 innocent victims.

When are people going to learn? NOBODY SURVIVES LIFE.

The collapse of Civilization will take down any reason you might have to survive unless you are a stone age jungle dweller or a brain dead zombie.
 
2012-12-17 12:58:16 PM
Well there goes the theory I had about her buying the guns for the kid so he could plink. Of course this new twist is kind of worst. I supposed the next article is how she was grooming him 24/7 about the end of times coming.
 
2012-12-17 12:58:29 PM
But is the mom hot?


dwtiitestblog1.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-12-17 12:58:32 PM

TIKIMAN87: El_Frijole_Blanco: So a Teabagger then

lol self reliance is something a liberal will never learn.


She was self reliant alright, she supplied the tools of her own demise.
 
2012-12-17 12:58:47 PM
The message is clear. Right wingers, you are the nutbag enemy of society
 
2012-12-17 12:58:59 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: The press and hollywood could have a bit of restraint and not put out those stories or those types of shows.


Restraint is un-American. Come on, you know that.
 
2012-12-17 12:59:29 PM
Came to see if anyone else pointed out that they used the "Daily Fail" as a source for this article.

/Fark, I am dissapoint....
 
2012-12-17 12:59:32 PM
"Whom"?

Grammar fail, subby.
 
2012-12-17 12:59:47 PM

Sleeping Monkey: She gets the fail award of the year for believing that having assault weapons in her home would make her safe. Now that entire community is paying for her ignorance.


Not necessarily.

There are two more questions here of immediate relevance:

- Would a larger base of armed, trained citizenry prevent more deaths than these occasional outliers?
- Would a larger base of armed, trained citizenry (say, the teachers, or anyone within hearing range of the gunshots) have provided for earlier dispatch of the shooter, such that fewer deaths would have been incurred per incident?

Other questions of longer-term relevance include:

- Can we change our cultural basis to reduce the severity and frequency of these tragedies? (i.e. small children are IMMENSELY preoccupied with shooting and killing people and how awesome blowing things up is; gangsters and criminals are idolized; shooting people makes you really cool. How do we stop this from becoming the mentality of children who grow up into adults that don't always shed this mentality?)

- Can we improve mental health services to detect and treat people, such that fewer will become this unstable?

And so on.
 
2012-12-17 01:00:24 PM

KungFuJunkie: Why do I get the feeling that the"preppers" will cause the breakdown of our society?


Self-fulfilling prophecy?
 
2012-12-17 01:00:33 PM
I'm so glad she was able to protect herself with the guns she had...from someone with guns. That were hers. Or something.

Moar guns!

2.bp.blogspot.com
/guns guns guns
 
2012-12-17 01:00:57 PM
FTFA: State Police Lt. Paul Vance, said: "There was a lot of ammo, a lot of clips. Certainly a lot of lives were potentially saved."

WTF?
 
2012-12-17 01:01:07 PM
impulse101.org

/oblig
 
2012-12-17 01:01:10 PM

HotWingConspiracy: There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.


Without guns, the king of England could walk right in here and start pushing you around. D'you want that? Huh? Do ya?
 
2012-12-17 01:01:28 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Their basement is probably packed with food and supplies.


That she thinks will last 20 years, but really is going to last one or two. My parents have so much oat, grain, and flour, and I'm thinking... I could bake a loaf a week and go through this in a year.
 
2012-12-17 01:01:32 PM

PreMortem: Court ordered mandatory psychological exams, then involuntary institutionalisation.

We are allowing too many whack jobs to roam freely.


Medical care? With my tax dollars? I don't think so.
 
2012-12-17 01:01:39 PM

HotWingConspiracy: There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.


I'm sure there are people that legally purchase their weapons, know every rule about not showing off with it, treating it like a bullet is in the chamber and lock them away in a safe place where the kids can't find them if they even tried or come across it on accident.

Unfortunately, some people aren't responsible and that has led to unnecessary harm.
 
2012-12-17 01:01:42 PM
More proof that logistics aren't the be all end all to preparedness
 
2012-12-17 01:01:43 PM

TIKIMAN87: El_Frijole_Blanco: So a Teabagger then

lol self reliance is something a liberal will never learn.


Looks like it paid off well for her too.
 
2012-12-17 01:02:04 PM
To those people calling his mother out on not having a gun safe. There is nothing to say she didn't have one. She may have had trigger locks on them. But a 20 year old who lives in the house with her, who has gone to the gun range with her, will most likely know the combination to the safe and where the trigger lock key is.
 
2012-12-17 01:02:33 PM

nitefallz: HotWingConspiracy: There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.

Lazy troll is extremely lazy


They're responsible right up until they stop being responsible, then people die. See James Holmes.

We should start treating them like pit bulls, really. Maybe you've got a nice one, but keep it the fark away from me and my family.
 
2012-12-17 01:02:37 PM
WHOM???? Seriously?
 
2012-12-17 01:02:46 PM

HotWingConspiracy: There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.


You're not helping
 
2012-12-17 01:03:08 PM

Mentat: I also heard that he was wearing a lot of pouches, which means we need to ban Rob Liefeld.


Now we're getting down to brass tacks.
 
2012-12-17 01:03:50 PM

vpb: Marcus Aurelius: Police say that when his body was found, he carried a third semi-automatic pistol in his military-style cargo pants

Clearly, we need to ban military style cargo pants.

If the victims had had military style cargo pants this wouldn't have happened.


They did, but corduroy doesn't count. Too noisy.
 
2012-12-17 01:03:51 PM

Coco LaFemme: Gee, who would have thought that being a paranoid survivalist stockpiling guns with a mentally disturbed child in the house would end up being a really stupid idea. I wish this woman wasn't dead because if her son hadn't shot her first, I'd be demanding her ass be put on trial for all 26 dead bodies her son racked up. She helped create the monster, she should have been made to pay for it.


In a way this makes more sense and I'm surprised that we haven't seen this as the cause of more shootings; if fear over the world ending was the motive for this guys shootings, he wouldn't be the first person to go on a killing spree because of that.

Whatever the reason you think the world is going to end (the Rapture, earthquakes, aliens, nuclear war, Obama, Mexicans, etc), if you spend years telling your kids that there's no hope for them to have a normal life ever, eventually you'll have people snap. I mean, why not? They've been told for years by their authority figure (be it a parent or religious leader) that there's no hope.
 
2012-12-17 01:04:00 PM

Mentat: I also heard that he was wearing a lot of pouches, which means we need to ban Rob Liefeld.


We should just ban that dude anyway
 
2012-12-17 01:04:36 PM

Because People in power are Stupid: She could afford those guns but couldn't afford a gun safe.

Isn't it time that we paid our kindergarten teachers more?


She may have been an insane weapons hoarder spawning psycopathic children but at least she didn't show up in an adult film.

Her ass would have been canned immediately.
 
2012-12-17 01:04:53 PM

Snarfangel: We either need to ban rich people, the unemployed, or single mothers. I'm trying to decide which.


The correct answer is D, all of the above.
 
2012-12-17 01:05:04 PM
But remember. Requiring people to have safety locks on their guns and report them when they're lost or stolen is a grievous assault on liberty.

When the full details come out, if it turns out this kid had a known history of mental problems and/or violence AND this woman not only stockpiled guns but kept them available despite knowing about his derangement I don't think it would be a step too far for people to make the occasional pilgrimage to her grave to take a giant dump on.
 
2012-12-17 01:05:07 PM

HotWingConspiracy: There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.


I'll bite.

I'm in the shiat right now with my dad - he's a right wing nut who signed the secessionist bullshiat and watches Doomsday Preppers for tips. He owns a lot of guns and is a lifetime member of the NRA. I've been in a consistent, escalating fight with him for four years over the brown motherfarker in the white house, and you know what?

I am not scared of his guns.

If there is one absolute thing I believe about the giant asshole my father's become, it's that he takes his ownership of his weapons with dead seriousness. He has a gun safe with a secured lock that is updated regularly; he maintains and secures his weapons at all times, and he takes himself to the range with a trainer to keep sharp and updated on safety. I don't agree 100% with his weaponry stance (I'm more a handguns/hunting type than LET ME OWN THAT SWEET-ASS-UZI) but I respect that he's taking care of his.

Of course if the day comes he tweaks and shoots up... well, a bunch of abandoned barns and maybe a few rednecks out by him, I'll be back to go "holy shiat, I did not see that coming" and you can call me an asshole. After I drink out my spleen.
 
2012-12-17 01:05:22 PM

BizarreMan: To those people calling his mother out on not having a gun safe. There is nothing to say she didn't have one. She may have had trigger locks on them. But a 20 year old who lives in the house with her, who has gone to the gun range with her, will most likely know the combination to the safe and where the trigger lock key is.


My thoughts exactly. The guns may have been secured against outsiders, but the son probably had access to them. Her failure was in having them in at all around what by all accounts was a very mentally ill individual.
 
2012-12-17 01:05:27 PM

BizarreMan: To those people calling his mother out on not having a gun safe. There is nothing to say she didn't have one. She may have had trigger locks on them. But a 20 year old who lives in the house with her, who has gone to the gun range with her, will most likely know the combination to the safe and where the trigger lock key is.


No, the issue is that the kid with known mental issues knew how to get around whatever gun security she had in place. By default the gun security is shiatty because he knew how to do this.
 
2012-12-17 01:05:32 PM

WizardofToast: I think 'end of the world' scenarios have really warped the brains of some people in society. And all this doomsday crap is driving people to do crazy things. I wouldn't be surprised if some people snap on December 21 thinking the world is ending when really it farking isn't. Everyone seems to think the world ends on Friday but has no farking clue how it will.


On December 18th, a giant, angry face will appear on the moon.
 
2012-12-17 01:06:03 PM
Great, his mom was a farking right wing nutjob, thinking the government was after them, and they had to prepare for the coming decay of polite society. Stupid biatch. Everybody knows that it's ZOMBIES we have to be prepared for.
 
2012-12-17 01:06:19 PM
Remember when Giffard was shot and right wingers had to suddenly back paddle on "lock and load" and maps with gunsights (or something that looks suspiciously like gunsights to every one who is not a Republican lawyer)?

Well, this times ten thousand.

Not only will we have to listen to them whine as they do every time their consensual reality is punctured by the Great Conspiracy of Reality Against Paranoid Partisans (G-CRAPP), but now mean, evil lieberals will be pointing out the insanity of the Great Liberal Apocalyptic Doom (GLAD) they have been preaching with increasing furvor since they realized that demographics and the economy have betrayed them and time is now the enemy.

To quote the great Zen philosopher Grr "Hooray! We're all doomed!"

Sign me up! This should be as much fun as a barrel of live fish and a shotgun.
 
2012-12-17 01:06:23 PM

Felgraf: WizardofToast: I think 'end of the world' scenarios have really warped the brains of some people in society. And all this doomsday crap is driving people to do crazy things. I wouldn't be surprised if some people snap on December 21 thinking the world is ending when really it farking isn't. Everyone seems to think the world ends on Friday but has no farking clue how it will.

On December 18th, a giant, angry face will appear on the moon.


Dawn of the 5th Day.
 
2012-12-17 01:06:27 PM

kronicfeld: If only she had more guns, she might've been safer.


bravo ( golf clap, zero sarcasm )
 
2012-12-17 01:06:28 PM

Mentat: I also heard that he was wearing a lot of pouches, which means we need to ban Rob Liefeld.


If his shoe size is a 3, I'll consider it.
 
2012-12-17 01:06:48 PM
Besides, we've been assured by one of the good Republican Representatives from Texas that if she had been allowed to carry one of her AR-15 knockoffs with her at school, she could have prevented all of this.
 
2012-12-17 01:07:04 PM

birchman: HotWingConspiracy: There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.

You're not helping


Helping what?
 
2012-12-17 01:07:04 PM
Guess she didnt prep for this. When I heard she didnt have a job and saw the house I figured she must be getting some serious alimony from the VP dad. You know its a farked up family when the older brother said he didnt have any contact with his brother for over 2 years. Me and my brother talk all the time and at least see each other once a month.
 
2012-12-17 01:07:44 PM

HotWingConspiracy: nitefallz: HotWingConspiracy: There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.

Lazy troll is extremely lazy

They're responsible right up until they stop being responsible, then people die. See James Holmes.

We should start treating them like pit bulls, really. Maybe you've got a nice one, but keep it the fark away from me and my family.


Great, now you've let all the criminals know that you can't defend your family. Don't let people know you're not armed.

/do you not lock your doors either?
 
2012-12-17 01:07:48 PM

bulldg4life: She did a shiat job of securing her weapons, then.


How do we know? For all we know, she stored the guns in a safe, and the son stole the key while she was sleeping.
 
2012-12-17 01:08:17 PM

KhamanV: After I drink out my spleen.


That made me chuckle. I don't feel good about that.
 
2012-12-17 01:08:57 PM

Diogenes: Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.

hey, I like those stories!

Yes, let's eliminate the First Amendment to protect the Second.


We all have to make sacrifices.

/when the protectionists are done attacking gun owners, who do you think they'll go after next?
/someone's got to take the manufactured blame.
 
2012-12-17 01:09:07 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.


The sad part would be if the TV show "revolution" caused her to believe this.

Sad because the show is so terrible.
 
2012-12-17 01:09:54 PM

minoridiot: Since she divorced Peter, Nancy has had no need to work because she receives $200,000 in support from Peter Lanza

2%er problems.


So...no more child payments?
 
2012-12-17 01:10:07 PM

SubjectVerb: HotWingConspiracy: nitefallz: HotWingConspiracy: There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.

Lazy troll is extremely lazy

They're responsible right up until they stop being responsible, then people die. See James Holmes.

We should start treating them like pit bulls, really. Maybe you've got a nice one, but keep it the fark away from me and my family.

Great, now you've let all the criminals know that you can't defend your family. Don't let people know you're not armed.

/do you not lock your doors either?


Nope, my apartment is unlocked and it's 20 miles away.
 
2012-12-17 01:10:08 PM

Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.

hey, I like those stories!

on a more serious note - not all preppers are crazy, but a lot of crazy people are preppers. given the situation after hurricane katrina or again after hurricane sandy...preparing for a long term disruption of power and food distribution systems is starting to look like plain common sense and not an indication of crazy loonie toons insanity.


sounds pretty horrible to me, i mean after society collapses you'll have crazy people murdering others for their food because they were too paranoid to think past a week worth of supplies

i mean the reality is paranoid people don't think right, they don't have the ability to actually plan ahead - hence why they stockpile so many weapons but all they end up doing is just going on killing sprees - they don't actually know what they're doing or why
 
2012-12-17 01:10:15 PM

dittybopper: bulldg4life: She did a shiat job of securing her weapons, then.

How do we know? For all we know, she stored the guns in a safe, and the son stole the key while she was sleeping.


Which would be a shiatty job of securing her weapons.
 
2012-12-17 01:10:26 PM

birchman: HotWingConspiracy: There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.

You're not helping


Maybe fewer people would feel that way about gun owners if every simple little attempt at keeping guns out of the hands of lunatics like this kid, "the Joker" in Aurora and Seung-Hui Cho wasn't met by "responsible gun owners" unleashing a massive backlash of righteous indignation.

I mean, seriously. It's too much to ask that you should have to register a firearm, report it if its gets lost of stolen and keep it locked away so that it can't be taken and used against someone else?

To the "responsible gun owners" the answer to all three is not just "yes", but "YES AND IF YOU DISAGREE YOU HATE FREEDOM YOU STUPID COMMIE PINKO!!!111"

So, yea. Havin' a hard time finding these alleged "responsible gun owners" anywhere in this debate.
 
2012-12-17 01:10:46 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Coco LaFemme: Gee, who would have thought that being a paranoid survivalist stockpiling guns with a mentally disturbed child in the house would end up being a really stupid idea. I wish this woman wasn't dead because if her son hadn't shot her first, I'd be demanding her ass be put on trial for all 26 dead bodies her son racked up. She helped create the monster, she should have been made to pay for it.

In a way this makes more sense and I'm surprised that we haven't seen this as the cause of more shootings; if fear over the world ending was the motive for this guys shootings, he wouldn't be the first person to go on a killing spree because of that.

Whatever the reason you think the world is going to end (the Rapture, earthquakes, aliens, nuclear war, Obama, Mexicans, etc), if you spend years telling your kids that there's no hope for them to have a normal life ever, eventually you'll have people snap. I mean, why not? They've been told for years by their authority figure (be it a parent or religious leader) that there's no hope.


There have been a number recent militia plots to kill law enforcement officers and Sovereign Citizens have killed a number of police officers recently. It just doesn't get any national media attention because it happens in flyover country. The plotters typically get caught because they don't know the first rule about fight club. Check this out. What's unusually about the Newtown shooting was that schools kids were targeted instead of a representative of the Federal Government.
 
GCD
2012-12-17 01:10:51 PM
It might be going out on a limb here, but the more of this story that emerges, the more this sounds like a "December 21st preemptive strike" type scenario.

If she was a part of this "Doomsday Prepper movement", then one could safely assume that she was stockpiling for end of the world. That would rationally explain the copious amounts of ammo that has reportedly been found.

Now add into the mix a person with an unknown medical condition(s) who has probably be brought up to believe that the world was is ending on December 21st and you have yourself a volatile powder keg that was just waiting for a spark to explode.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if they discover that the person responsible somehow thought that by killing people before the end of the world, he was somehow doing them a favor and "saving" them from a worse fate on December 21st.

Given the information that continues to emerge here, the whole thing seems pretty plausible.
 
2012-12-17 01:10:53 PM

hinten: How exactly owning a long list of devices that are primarily designed to kill makes you safer is anyone's guess.


Tactical ability to return fire or respond to detected intrusion with a first strike.

What makes the community safer is being able to collectively neutralize a threat. In other words: the community is unsafe when a random single person is able to systematically rape/mug/murder people; the individual is unsafe when such an attacker gains first strike (you can't draw a gun if you have a gun pointed in your face, you get shot; hell, it's easy to just grab someone's gun away from them when they reach for the hip, if you can grapple with them competently); but if the attacker shoots you and the people in hearing range have guns, several will take their guns out and come find the attacker--either apprehend or kill. You might be dead, but his next victim... will not be a thing.

Essentially it's the same idea as a police force, except we put guns in the hands of more people. We're supposed to psychologically evaluate people and put some restrictions on who can have a gun; just like with the police force, this often fails (it fails a LOT in some police forces, to the point that the only people who want to be cops are cliqy assholes that want to feel important). Ideally, we make it a statistics problem: the system should be self-regulating, such that there's enough benefit to diminish the negative consequences below what occurs otherwise.

That's the theory. Impact has to do with culture--criminal culture, peoples' willingness to fight back, saturation (if more than a few but still not enough people have guns, criminals just arms-race by becoming more violent), and so on.
 
2012-12-17 01:11:02 PM

utahraptor2: If a teacher would have been armed, he wouldn't have gotten very far.


Yeah, that's a quality I look for in my kids' teachers. A good shot. What could possibly go wrong?

BizarreMan: To those people calling his mother out on not having a gun safe. There is nothing to say she didn't have one. She may have had trigger locks on them. But a 20 year old who lives in the house with her, who has gone to the gun range with her, will most likely know the combination to the safe and where the trigger lock key is.


There's nothing saying she had trigger locks or tiny fairies watching them for her either. A gun safe your kid knows the combo to is a cabinet, not a safe.
 
2012-12-17 01:11:07 PM

Coco LaFemme: Gee, who would have thought that being a paranoid survivalist stockpiling guns with a mentally disturbed child in the house would end up being a really stupid idea. I wish this woman wasn't dead because if her son hadn't shot her first, I'd be demanding her ass be put on trial for all 26 dead bodies her son racked up. She helped create the monster, she should have been made to pay for it.


THIS

And sadly, it's too soon or too sad to call her a dumbass because polite society says she should be pitied for dying horribly at the hands of her own child. No. fark her. And somebody on teevee no doubt put that B-52 loadfull of weapons grade derp in her pathetic brain. I'd love to know where she acquired that bs.
 
2012-12-17 01:11:15 PM

RexTalionis: Mentat: I also heard that he was wearing a lot of pouches, which means we need to ban Rob Liefeld.

I can get behind that.


Sign me up for that petition!

Ban Liefeld!

/You know, for the kids.
 
2012-12-17 01:11:20 PM
First rule of being liberal: hate the parts of the Constitution that your friends, teachers, and television tell you to hate

Second rule of being liberal: blame Conservativism and capitalism for everything that goes wrong, including hurricanes, economic collapses, and insane people who butcher innocents

Third rule of being liberal: if you must defend insane people who butcher innocents, make sure they're middle eastern, then sympathize with their plight and how they're treated in captivity

And finally, the fourth rule, read Fark, dailykos, huffington post, basically any site where you can congregate with other liberals and congratulate each other for how much smarter and tolerant you are, tolerant of everyone that beileves what you believe, that is.
 
2012-12-17 01:11:32 PM

dittybopper: bulldg4life: She did a shiat job of securing her weapons, then.

How do we know? For all we know, she stored the guns in a safe, and the son stole the key while she was sleeping.


Even so, a shiat job securing her weapons.
 
2012-12-17 01:11:34 PM

SubjectVerb: HotWingConspiracy: nitefallz: HotWingConspiracy: There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.

Lazy troll is extremely lazy

They're responsible right up until they stop being responsible, then people die. See James Holmes.

We should start treating them like pit bulls, really. Maybe you've got a nice one, but keep it the fark away from me and my family.

Great, now you've let all the criminals know that you can't defend your family. Don't let people know you're not armed.

/do you not lock your doors either?


Do you honestly, sincerely believe that your area is full of people waiting to bust down your door, steal everything you own and rape you, the second they find out there's no guns in your home?

How do you avoid wetting yourself every time you step outside?
 
2012-12-17 01:12:02 PM

utahraptor2: If a teacher would have been armed, he wouldn't have gotten very far.


This
 
2012-12-17 01:12:15 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: But remember. Requiring people to have safety locks on their guns and report them when they're lost or stolen is a grievous assault on liberty.


Quite literally, you are correct: The Supreme Court has ruled that requiring that guns be inoperable is a violation of the Second Amendment. It's settled law.

As for reporting them lost or stolen, that's hard to do with your face shot off.
 
2012-12-17 01:12:55 PM

KhamanV: HotWingConspiracy: There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.

I'll bite.

I'm in the shiat right now with my dad - he's a right wing nut who signed the secessionist bullshiat and watches Doomsday Preppers for tips. He owns a lot of guns and is a lifetime member of the NRA. I've been in a consistent, escalating fight with him for four years over the brown motherfarker in the white house, and you know what?


What...that he's not on medication? Didn't see that one coming.
 
2012-12-17 01:13:12 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Because People in power are Stupid: She could afford those guns but couldn't afford a gun safe.
Isn't it time that we paid our kindergarten teachers more?
She wasn't a teacher, she was living on alimony.


Oh well then--she deserved to die. She had more money than you, and she didn't earn it the way you think she should have. Glad we got that out of the way.
 
2012-12-17 01:13:53 PM

HotWingConspiracy: We should start treating them like pit bulls, really. Maybe you've got a nice one, but keep it the fark away from me and my family.


4.bp.blogspot.com

What a pit bull might look like.
 
2012-12-17 01:13:57 PM
Phineas, now that you've got that strawman out of your system, care to make a contribution that isn't a pile of steaming derp?
 
2012-12-17 01:13:59 PM

DoctorCal: /oblig


Unless he grounds himself, he'll be fine.
 
2012-12-17 01:14:10 PM

H31N0US: dittybopper: bulldg4life: She did a shiat job of securing her weapons, then.

How do we know? For all we know, she stored the guns in a safe, and the son stole the key while she was sleeping.

Even so, a shiat job securing her weapons.


That's an assumption based on no evidence.
What we do know is that she did a shiat job raising her son.
 
2012-12-17 01:14:11 PM
As she laid there in bed with her son pointing a rifle at her, I wonder what the last thing that went through her mind was.
 
2012-12-17 01:14:39 PM

NightOwl2255: dittybopper: bulldg4life: She did a shiat job of securing her weapons, then.

How do we know? For all we know, she stored the guns in a safe, and the son stole the key while she was sleeping.

Which would be a shiatty job of securing her weapons.


I would almost bet that her son had his own key, just in case the evil conspiracies started coming through the door.

I'm guessing someone so focused on the pretend fantasies they're preparing for in their own head isn't going to be a very attentive parent.
 
2012-12-17 01:14:41 PM

TIKIMAN87: El_Frijole_Blanco: So a Teabagger then

lol self reliance is something a liberal will never learn.


I was raised working the family cattle ranch (grazeland not that Midwest shiat) I also hunt. Spend a month in the saddle at the south end of the Mogollon rim and ask me about self reliance

Fark Independants® ... they think they know what self reliance is
 
2012-12-17 01:14:48 PM

hammettman: Coco LaFemme: Gee, who would have thought that being a paranoid survivalist stockpiling guns with a mentally disturbed child in the house would end up being a really stupid idea. I wish this woman wasn't dead because if her son hadn't shot her first, I'd be demanding her ass be put on trial for all 26 dead bodies her son racked up. She helped create the monster, she should have been made to pay for it.

THIS

And sadly, it's too soon or too sad to call her a dumbass because polite society says she should be pitied for dying horribly at the hands of her own child. No. fark her. And somebody on teevee no doubt put that B-52 loadfull of weapons grade derp in her pathetic brain. I'd love to know where she acquired that bs.


This is just plain stupid. Dems will just use this as mare ammo to chip away at rights. As terrible as this tragedy is, using it to erode the constitution is a slipper slope.

Cars kill far more people each year. Ban them too?

If you want to fix the problem, start being tough parents again. But liberals don't believe in that. Further left we go, the worse society gets.
 
2012-12-17 01:15:52 PM

Phineas: tolerant of everyone that beileves what you believe, that is.


Yeah, 'cause the Right is so well known for tolerance for others' beliefs.

www.rawstory.com

/go sit in the corner, dumbass.
 
2012-12-17 01:15:59 PM

cryinoutloud: Wolf_Blitzer: Because People in power are Stupid: She could afford those guns but couldn't afford a gun safe.
Isn't it time that we paid our kindergarten teachers more?
She wasn't a teacher, she was living on alimony.

Oh well then--she deserved to die. She had more money than you, and she didn't earn it the way you think she should have. Glad we got that out of the way.


I hope you get paid to jump to conclusions, because its the only thing you seem to be good at. I made no judgements on her lifestyle, simply corrected some misinformation. The early reports were all that she was a teacher at the targeted school, which wasn't the case.
 
2012-12-17 01:16:09 PM

bluefoxicy: HotWingConspiracy: We should start treating them like pit bulls, really. Maybe you've got a nice one, but keep it the fark away from me and my family.

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 432x223]

What a pit bull might look like.


Oh look you found a mean dog that isn't a pit bull.
 
2012-12-17 01:17:02 PM

meatsack_01: utahraptor2: If a teacher would have been armed, he wouldn't have gotten very far.

This



Came for derp.. Found it.. Leaving satisfied.
 
2012-12-17 01:17:13 PM

Crewmannumber6: she was also, apparently very kind and generous so, you say tomato..

Link


And a barfly!
 
2012-12-17 01:17:15 PM

HotWingConspiracy: There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.


I have 2 guns, a shotgun and a rifle, both of which I iniherited from my father. They've been locked in a safe for 30 years, until a month ago when there was an escaped prisoner loose in our neighborhood. I got out the shotgun, loaded it with the chamber empty, and kept it with me until we got the all clear, at which time I unloaded it and locked it back in the safe. untilk that night, my kids didn't know that I had any guns.

You Sir, are an idiot.
 
2012-12-17 01:17:19 PM
"Mrs Lanza, 52, was a 'prepper' - so called because they are preparing for a breakdown in civilized society - who apparently became obsessed with guns and taught Adam and his older brother, Ryan, how to shoot, even taking them to local ranges."

Oh my what a horrible, horrible person. She even took them to shooting ranges? Why not puppy farms with bounce houses?
 
2012-12-17 01:17:28 PM

Generation_D: Coco LaFemme: Gee, who would have thought that being a paranoid survivalist stockpiling guns with a mentally disturbed child in the house would end up being a really stupid idea. I wish this woman wasn't dead because if her son hadn't shot her first, I'd be demanding her ass be put on trial for all 26 dead bodies her son racked up. She helped create the monster, she should have been made to pay for it.

This 1000x times this.

The whole media "tragedy" angle is missing one fundamental fact: This family spawned this effed up asswit kid, and probably fought to keep him out of treatment or custody. Every damn one of them should be held accountable. But since justice happened to the mom, I guess we can start with the Ernst and Young VP dad. The one dumping the mom in 2009, the same year she quit her job to homeschool lil shooter Adam.


You're ignoring the fact that he was treated as an outcast at school. Bullying is probably what created this kid, compounded by being an aspie and his mother going paranoid, it isn't surprising, but I imagine other kids bullying him are the root cause.
 
2012-12-17 01:17:41 PM

Phineas: First rule of being liberal: hate the parts of the Constitution that your friends, teachers, and television tell you to hate

Second rule of being liberal: blame Conservativism and capitalism for everything that goes wrong, including hurricanes, economic collapses, and insane people who butcher innocents

Third rule of being liberal: if you must defend insane people who butcher innocents, make sure they're middle eastern, then sympathize with their plight and how they're treated in captivity

And finally, the fourth rule, read Fark, dailykos, huffington post, basically any site where you can congregate with other liberals and congratulate each other for how much smarter and tolerant you are, tolerant of everyone that beileves what you believe, that is.


Step 5: fart in your Toyota Prius and bask in how great your fart smells.
 
2012-12-17 01:17:44 PM

hinten: How exactly owning a long list of devices that are primarily designed to kill makes you safer is anyone's guess.


Perhaps you should pose your inquiry to the Pentagon?
 
2012-12-17 01:17:47 PM
Preppers are just stockpiling food, ammo and women for me to come along and take from them.
 
2012-12-17 01:18:03 PM

whyRpeoplesostupid: tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.


Agreed


Until mankind is peaceful enough not to have violence on the news, there's no point in taking it out of shows that need it for entertainment value.
 
2012-12-17 01:18:05 PM
Is this the thread where we blame a victim instead of the farking whackjob that murdered all those children?
 
2012-12-17 01:18:18 PM

hammettman: Crewmannumber6: she was also, apparently very kind and generous so, you say tomato..

Link

And a barfly!


Had a social life, yes. Barfly is a stretch.
 
2012-12-17 01:18:26 PM
Good Idea: Being prepared for possible disasters
Bad Idea: Being a prepper because the wrong guy was elected President again for the 22nd time

Good idea: Living for the advancement of Civilization
Bad Idea: Being enamoured of the idea of living without Civilization

Good Idea: Keeping enough guns and ammo to maintain order in the event of a temporary collapse of civil order
Bad Idea: Letting the loonies and the political extremists keep enough guns and ammo to cause a temporary collapse of civil order

Good Idea: Making War on the commercialization and political exploitation of Christmas
Bad Idea: Making War on those who don't give a damn about Christmas

Good Idea: Learning from past disasters to prepare for future disasters before they are upon you
Bad Idiea: Learning about future disasters from demogogues and political and religious cranks

Good idea: Assuming that half the US population is completely insane
Bad Idea: Assuming you can tell which half that is
 
2012-12-17 01:18:39 PM

Thunderpipes: hammettman: Coco LaFemme: Gee, who would have thought that being a paranoid survivalist stockpiling guns with a mentally disturbed child in the house would end up being a really stupid idea. I wish this woman wasn't dead because if her son hadn't shot her first, I'd be demanding her ass be put on trial for all 26 dead bodies her son racked up. She helped create the monster, she should have been made to pay for it.

THIS

And sadly, it's too soon or too sad to call her a dumbass because polite society says she should be pitied for dying horribly at the hands of her own child. No. fark her. And somebody on teevee no doubt put that B-52 loadfull of weapons grade derp in her pathetic brain. I'd love to know where she acquired that bs.

This is just plain stupid. Dems will just use this as mare ammo to chip away at rights. As terrible as this tragedy is, using it to erode the constitution is a slipper slope.

Cars kill far more people each year. Ban them too?

If you want to fix the problem, start being tough parents again. But liberals don't believe in that. Further left we go, the worse society gets.



Yes, start beating the severely mentally ill child with access to an arsenal, thats guaranteed to fix things.

How can you sincerely believe that massacres like this are an acceptable price to pay for your "right" to own instruments of death?
 
2012-12-17 01:18:44 PM

thornhill: Satanic_Hamster: Coco LaFemme: Gee, who would have thought that being a paranoid survivalist stockpiling guns with a mentally disturbed child in the house would end up being a really stupid idea. I wish this woman wasn't dead because if her son hadn't shot her first, I'd be demanding her ass be put on trial for all 26 dead bodies her son racked up. She helped create the monster, she should have been made to pay for it.

In a way this makes more sense and I'm surprised that we haven't seen this as the cause of more shootings; if fear over the world ending was the motive for this guys shootings, he wouldn't be the first person to go on a killing spree because of that.

Whatever the reason you think the world is going to end (the Rapture, earthquakes, aliens, nuclear war, Obama, Mexicans, etc), if you spend years telling your kids that there's no hope for them to have a normal life ever, eventually you'll have people snap. I mean, why not? They've been told for years by their authority figure (be it a parent or religious leader) that there's no hope.

There have been a number recent militia plots to kill law enforcement officers and Sovereign Citizens have killed a number of police officers recently. It just doesn't get any national media attention because it happens in flyover country. The plotters typically get caught because they don't know the first rule about fight club. Check this out. What's unusually about the Newtown shooting was that schools kids were targeted instead of a representative of the Federal Government.


Link is to my local area. No one here was ever afraid of this "militia", save one of it's own members and his girlfriend, who they offed, thus ruining their own plans.
 
2012-12-17 01:18:44 PM

nitefallz: HotWingConspiracy: There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.

Lazy troll is extremely lazy


Yeah, -3
 
2012-12-17 01:18:48 PM

Heathen: so having a couple hundred rounds of ammo in your house makes you a prepper?

I was a prepper and didn't even know it.


If that's the case, I'm an international small dealer.

\I get a call from Midsouth every time I order.... "Hey Fapp, did you actually order 40,000 pistol primers or did your cat step on the zero key?"
 
2012-12-17 01:18:51 PM

El_Frijole_Blanco: So a Teabagger then

 

0/10
 
2012-12-17 01:19:00 PM
"I'll use what it takes to get by"

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2012-12-17 01:19:01 PM
I used to run into numerous whack-jobs like this when I was a NRA member.

/One of the reasons I quit the NRA
 
2012-12-17 01:19:11 PM

JRoo: I would almost bet that her son had his own key, just in case the evil conspiracies started coming through the door.

I'm guessing someone so focused on the pretend fantasies they're preparing for in their own head isn't going to be a very attentive parent.


Very likely. But, if she had them "locked up", like from him, and he was able to get to them, that's pretty obviously a shiatty job of locking them up.
 
2012-12-17 01:19:12 PM
Events like this make me glad of the system we have in Canada. We have more guns per capita then the US but handguns are restricted to sport shooters with a special license and fully automatic weapons are banned.

What is more vital and in my opinion the best way of controlling insane behavior like this but without having to restrict the right of hunters and sport shooters is the limit we have on magazine size. It is illegal in Canada to sell a magazine larger then 5 rounds. This by definition slows down the ability of someone to cause one of these tragedies and does not affect hunters. (seriously if you need more then 5 shots the deer is gone man).

To me this seems an easy thing to do to protect peoples rights and protect the rest of us from those people expressing their rights.
 
2012-12-17 01:19:28 PM

fappomatic: Heathen: so having a couple hundred rounds of ammo in your house makes you a prepper?

I was a prepper and didn't even know it.

If that's the case, I'm an international small arms dealer.

\I get a call from Midsouth every time I order.... "Hey Fapp, did you actually order 40,000 pistol primers or did your cat step on the zero key?"


FTFM...damned codeine cough syrup.
 
2012-12-17 01:19:39 PM

Crewmannumber6: HotWingConspiracy: There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.

I have 2 guns, a shotgun and a rifle, both of which I iniherited from my father. They've been locked in a safe for 30 years, until a month ago when there was an escaped prisoner loose in our neighborhood. I got out the shotgun, loaded it with the chamber empty, and kept it with me until we got the all clear, at which time I unloaded it and locked it back in the safe. untilk that night, my kids didn't know that I had any guns.

You Sir, are an idiot.


Hopefully one day you don't decide to off your wife and kids and shoot up your workplace. Because you might, at any point for any reason.

Basically I'll reserve judgement on your level of responsibility until after you die. Then we can look at totals.
 
2012-12-17 01:19:47 PM

meatsack_01: utahraptor2: If a teacher would have been armed, he wouldn't have gotten very far.
This


That's the solution, for sure--have every person in the public eye be heavily armed. Is it fun going around thinking that the best way to run our society is by acting like we're in a constant state of civil war? Maybe if you live in fantasy-land, which I"m convinced a lot of you guys do.
 
2012-12-17 01:19:52 PM
causes-prod.caudn.com
 
2012-12-17 01:20:22 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Sleeping Monkey: She gets the fail award of the year for believing that having assault weapons in her home would make her safe. Now that entire community is paying for her ignorance.

If she had them properly secured in a gun safe, she wouldn't have been able to get them out in time to repel the coming North Korean invasion.


AVENGE ME SON!!!!! AVEEEEEEEEEENGEEEEE MEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!
 
2012-12-17 01:20:49 PM

Mattyb710: Is this the thread where we blame a victim instead of the farking whackjob that murdered all those children?


The victim trained and supplied the whackjob.
 
2012-12-17 01:21:05 PM
Ceiling Cat needs to stop watching people masturbate and start smiting massacrer'ers before they massacre.
 
2012-12-17 01:21:11 PM

dittybopper: Vegan Meat Popsicle: But remember. Requiring people to have safety locks on their guns and report them when they're lost or stolen is a grievous assault on liberty.

Quite literally, you are correct: The Supreme Court has ruled that requiring that guns be inoperable is a violation of the Second Amendment. It's settled law.

As for reporting them lost or stolen, that's hard to do with your face shot off.


Hardly unique among the stupid decisions made throughout the Court's history, but it doesn't preclude requiring that the guns be secured.

dittybopper: As for reporting them lost or stolen, that's hard to do with your face shot off.


Ah, yes. You must be another one of those "responsible gun owners" I keep hearing about. A man in a perpetual state of pants-wetting paranoia about the very low possibility that somebody might break into his occupied home and attempt to harm him or his family.

Meanwhile, I"m sure you drive somewhere on almost a daily basis. A routine act of willing submission to a much, MUCH greater risk of harm than the possibility of some skeery thug the size of a barn breaking in your front door and trying to kill you.

Keep on 'derpin. Ain't nothing like nine to ten thousand firearms deaths a year as payment for you to keep pretending you're Mad Farking Max.
 
2012-12-17 01:21:13 PM
i1253.photobucket.com
It takes a human to commit the act. Do you blame the alcohol or the car for a drunk driving death? Of course the super libtard will reflect on soldiers using guns in battle. Are you then calling the people that defend us murderers?
Wake up leftys, evil people do evil things! Don't blame the tool for the destruction.
 
2012-12-17 01:21:21 PM

meatsack_01: [causes-prod.caudn.com image 640x636]


Funny - last week the Right felt that public school teachers were worthless moochers off the teat of the Job Creators. This week, they want them all carrying assault rifles.
 
2012-12-17 01:21:36 PM

Coco LaFemme: She helped create the monster, she should have been made to pay for it.


Well, actually, she did.
 
2012-12-17 01:21:44 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Crewmannumber6: HotWingConspiracy: There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.

I have 2 guns, a shotgun and a rifle, both of which I iniherited from my father. They've been locked in a safe for 30 years, until a month ago when there was an escaped prisoner loose in our neighborhood. I got out the shotgun, loaded it with the chamber empty, and kept it with me until we got the all clear, at which time I unloaded it and locked it back in the safe. untilk that night, my kids didn't know that I had any guns.

You Sir, are an idiot.

Hopefully one day you don't decide to off your wife and kids and shoot up your workplace. Because you might, at any point for any reason.

Basically I'll reserve judgement on your level of responsibility until after you die. Then we can look at totals.


Glad to see you're keeping an open mind
 
2012-12-17 01:22:31 PM

Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.

hey, I like those stories!

on a more serious note - not all preppers are crazy, but a lot of crazy people are preppers. given the situation after hurricane katrina or again after hurricane sandy...preparing for a long term disruption of power and food distribution systems is starting to look like plain common sense and not an indication of crazy loonie toons insanity.


There is a big difference between being prepared for a disaster and being a "prepper." We live in SoCal, so I have a cupboard of canned food and bottled water that could feed us for about 2 weeks in case of an earthquake or other disaster. "Preppers," the type my parents are, think the apocalypse is nigh and hoard mounds of ammo, food, fuel, and make survival backpacks. My dad made us all backpacks when I was a teen that contained binoculars, water proof matches, a gas mask, MREs, you name it. He also thinks that when the world collapses, gold will be useful but ammo will be currency, so he has a reload kit. He has lists of things to prep with that he has printed from WND. Whackados, the lot of them.
 
2012-12-17 01:22:40 PM

Generation_D: I guess we can start with the Ernst and Young VP dad. The one dumping the mom in 2009, the same year she quit her job to homeschool lil shooter Adam.


Because removing crazy people from your life means you are culpable for their actions forever afterward.

/is what a dumbshiat thinks
 
2012-12-17 01:22:40 PM

meatsack_01: [causes-prod.caudn.com image 640x636]


Good luck threatening death to people planning to kill themselves in an attack.
 
2012-12-17 01:22:46 PM

Phineas: congregate with other liberals


Wow, haven't heard the Liberal Hivemind™ canard in awhile.
 
2012-12-17 01:22:49 PM

NightOwl2255: dittybopper: bulldg4life: She did a shiat job of securing her weapons, then.

How do we know? For all we know, she stored the guns in a safe, and the son stole the key while she was sleeping.

Which would be a shiatty job of securing her weapons.


OK, so what *WOULD* be a good job? Give me a foolproof method to keep a deranged family member from opening a gun safe.

I have a decent enough gun safe at home. Nothing fancy, but it's all metal, and it's got a lock on it, and 10 minutes with a sawsall and I could open it up without the key. I could probably pick the lock in about the same amount of time, but that includes improvising a rake and a tension lever out of paper clips. It would be quieter, though.

Fact is, short of installing a bank vault, there isn't much you can do to stop something like this: It was undoubtedly planned in advance. With advance planning, I could get a duplicate key made. All I need to know is the key blank number, and a quick outline of the key traced on paper: I did that myself as a teenager to make a key for the "senior lounge" at my school. Using a file, it took me all of 20 minutes to make a duplicate by hand, and I only had the original in my possession for about 30 seconds.

Of course, it's possible she didn't have a gun safe either.

My point is that just because her 20 year old son, who lived in the house, figured out how to get the guns, that doesn't necessarily mean they weren't properly secured.
 
2012-12-17 01:22:58 PM
Wolf_blitzer

Just callin 'em as I sees 'em. This thread (and the article) contain mostly liberals who confuse the tools used to perpetrate the crime with the mental condition of the people who perpetrate them. This kid could've just as easily driven a truck through the side of the building and crushed a classroom. In fact, that would've been easier. But yeah, its easier to blame guns.

I figured you liberals would enjoy knowing how I see you, as hand-wringing hens that flock together and come to irrational conclusions based on the facts at hand. And if there's something you can't quite grasp, you check with other liberals to find out what it is you should be thinking.
 
2012-12-17 01:23:07 PM

Launch Code: [i1253.photobucket.com image 201x251]
It takes a human to commit the act. Do you blame the alcohol or the car for a drunk driving death? Of course the super libtard will reflect on soldiers using guns in battle. Are you then calling the people that defend us murderers?
Wake up leftys, evil people do evil things! Don't blame the tool for the destruction.


I keep seeing derp like this. Tell me - what is a firearm a "tool" for, other than the infliction of death or the threat of death?
 
2012-12-17 01:23:11 PM

probesport: "Mrs Lanza, 52, was a 'prepper' - so called because they are preparing for a breakdown in civilized society - who apparently became obsessed with guns and taught Adam and his older brother, Ryan, how to shoot, even taking them to local ranges."

Oh my what a horrible, horrible person. She even took them to shooting ranges? Why not puppy farms with bounce houses?


Why not puppy farms with bounce houses?

Maybe he would rather have gone there but she wouldn't take him and made him learn how to be an efficient killer instead.

I think most people are pretty crazy until they reach about their upper twenties.
 
2012-12-17 01:23:38 PM

tenpoundsofcheese:

The press and hollywood could have a bit of restraint and not put out those stories or those types of shows.


So tell me, what types of "stories" do you approve of? You're living proof that true believers are at best joyless douchebags
 
2012-12-17 01:24:12 PM

meatsack_01: [causes-prod.caudn.com image 640x636]


You mean before or after somebody gets shot by accident, Louie?

Launch Code: Don't blame the tool for the destruction.


Don't worry, we don't blame you.
 
2012-12-17 01:24:20 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Sleeping Monkey: She gets the fail award of the year for believing that having assault weapons in her home would make her safe. Now that entire community is paying for her ignorance.

If she had them properly secured in a gun safe, she wouldn't have been able to get them out in time to repel the coming North Korean invasion.


I've never under stood the 'ever armed' argument since it completely contradicts 'all guns were locked up safe and sound' argument.

Then again I'm trying to assign logic to Tea Party Patriots (aka 'nuts')
 
2012-12-17 01:24:25 PM
Thunderpipes: hammettman: Coco LaFemme: Gee, who would have thought that being a paranoid survivalist stockpiling guns with a mentally disturbed child in the house would end up being a really stupid idea. I wish this woman wasn't dead because if her son hadn't shot her first, I'd be demanding her ass be put on trial for all 26 dead bodies her son racked up. She helped create the monster, she should have been made to pay for it.

THIS

And sadly, it's too soon or too sad to call her a dumbass because polite society says she should be pitied for dying horribly at the hands of her own child. No. fark her. And somebody on teevee no doubt put that B-52 loadfull of weapons grade derp in her pathetic brain. I'd love to know where she acquired that bs.

This is just plain stupid. Dems will just use this as mare ammo to chip away at rights. As terrible as this tragedy is, using it to erode the constitution is a slipper slope.

Cars kill far more people each year. Ban them too?

If you want to fix the problem, start being tough parents again. But liberals don't believe in that. Further left we go, the worse society gets.


Hey, I thought all liberals were pro-abortion? What is tougher parenting than vaccuuming out the little psycho before he even hits daylight??

If you have to beat them, it's too late to do any good.
 
2012-12-17 01:24:30 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Do you honestly, sincerely believe that your area is full of people waiting to bust down your door, steal everything you own and rape you, the second they find out there's no guns in your home?


My back door has about 30 or 40 impact marks on it where a battering ram was taken to it in an attempt to force entry.

My home defense system consists of a 2x4. Everyone in my area has steel bars permanently mounted to the windows around the basement and first floor.
 
2012-12-17 01:24:59 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: dittybopper: Vegan Meat Popsicle: But remember. Requiring people to have safety locks on their guns and report them when they're lost or stolen is a grievous assault on liberty.

Quite literally, you are correct: The Supreme Court has ruled that requiring that guns be inoperable is a violation of the Second Amendment. It's settled law.

As for reporting them lost or stolen, that's hard to do with your face shot off.

Hardly unique among the stupid decisions made throughout the Court's history, but it doesn't preclude requiring that the guns be secured.


Actually, yes it does:

(3) The handgun ban and the trigger-lock requirement (as applied to self-defense) violate the Second Amendment. The District's total ban on handgun possession in the home amounts to a prohibition on an entire class of "arms" that Americans overwhelmingly choose for the lawful purpose of self-defense. Under any of the standards of scrutiny the Court has applied to enumerated constitutional rights, this prohibition - in the place where the importance of the lawful defense of self, family, and property is most acute - would fail constitutional muster. Similarly, the requirement that any lawful firearm in the home be disassembled or bound by a trigger lock makes it impossible for citizens to use arms for the core lawful purpose of self-defense and is hence unconstitutional.
 
2012-12-17 01:25:23 PM

NightOwl2255: As she laid there in bed with her son pointing a rifle at her, I wonder what the last thing that went through her mind was.


"I should have prepared for this!"
 
2012-12-17 01:25:27 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: Diogenes: Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.

hey, I like those stories!

Yes, let's eliminate the First Amendment to protect the Second.

I didn't say that the government should step in an stop it.

The press and hollywood could have a bit of restraint and not put out those stories or those types of shows.


Why do you hate capitalism?
 
2012-12-17 01:25:35 PM

meatsack_01: [causes-prod.caudn.com image 640x636]


If you think a sign will prevent jack squat you are an idiot.

But go ahead, you posted your opinion. Problem solved!
 
2012-12-17 01:25:54 PM

dittybopper: My point is that just because her 20 year old son, who lived in the house, figured out how to get the guns, that doesn't necessarily mean they weren't properly secured.


There are not entirely verified reports that she took him to the gun range with her. I'm still waiting for all the facts to sort out, but I would not entirely be surprised if she never expected her pride and joy to turn on her. Being family can blind us to a lot of problems.
 
2012-12-17 01:26:07 PM

Phineas: Wolf_blitzer

Just callin 'em as I sees 'em. This thread (and the article) contain mostly liberals who confuse the tools used to perpetrate the crime with the mental condition of the people who perpetrate them. This kid could've just as easily driven a truck through the side of the building and crushed a classroom. In fact, that would've been easier. But yeah, its easier to blame guns.

I figured you liberals would enjoy knowing how I see you, as hand-wringing hens that flock together and come to irrational conclusions based on the facts at hand. And if there's something you can't quite grasp, you check with other liberals to find out what it is you should be thinking.


Thats great, because I see you as a bed-wetting paranoid, dreaming every day for the Russians (or the Liberals) to invade your house, so that you can demonstrate to everyone just how big a man you are.
 
2012-12-17 01:26:09 PM

whyRpeoplesostupid: tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.


Agreed


I can't agree with that. I mean -- come on! It should be clear that zombies are no more real than, say, jackalopes! Wowee it's scary that there are significant number of people who can't recognize it as fantasy, though! I wonder if it's not more indication of the point I was trying to make yesterday -- the woeful state of good mental health services period, not just at a certain income level. Unless, of course, you want drugs -- we gotcher drugs all over the place, thanks to the free market and bootstrappy, job-creating big pharma! Please note, these are not necessarily drugs that will actually do any good for people who have mental illnesses that tend to make them unemployable (and subsequently uninsurable) because there isn't nearly as much money to be made off of unemployed, uninsured people. But if you get anxious speaking in front of a crowd of people, boy do we have a pill for you! ADHD? We're on it -- what flavor would you like your methamphetamine? (Full disclosure -- ADHD myself, not one of those 'herp-derp-just-make-the-kid-sit-still' people, but the point I'm trying to make here is that obviously ADHD people are employable and there's a profit margin in 'em...which is why I get effective medication. Interestingly, my bi-polar, delusional, ADHD kid could not get anything effective for anything but the ADHD, although Abilify did work for a few weeks. He, OTOH, is unemployable, but now that he's covered under my health insurance thanks to health care reform, maybe they'll be a profit margin in developing something that actually helps him and doesn't just tranquilize him.)

Would better mental health services have helped here? Well, actually, maybe...I mean, clearly this was a family problem, and perhaps if a once-a-year therapy visit were as covered as, say, an annual physical, maybe this issue could have been picked up on and cut off at the pass. Would better gun control have helped? Again, probably -- if weapons of mass killings are not as readily available, maybe we don't have as many mass killings -- that math makes sense to simple-minded me.

And, again, maybe not -- maybe neither would have helped in this situation at all. Even if you remove the guns, you still had a homicidal maniac loose in a classroom full of small children, and I hate to see this tragedy reduced to a numbers game. At the same time, damn -- I'm okay with fixing that whole numbers game scenario a bit as part of the overall solution to this problem! And, who is to say that a mental health professional could have possibly picked up on something wrong like that in a once-a-year visit? Human beings operate on a spectrum, and on a good day or bad day that check might have picked me up, and I am about the most completely pacifistic person you'll ever meet.

I am glad that this discussion is happening, and I'm even glad it's happening on dear, snarky, make-'em-cry Fark. And, I hope to not be one of those one-issue, simple solution sound-bite people. The fact is that this is a many-layered problem, and I totally agree with what a friend of mine said the other day -- it's time to start having this conversation as a nation minus the extremists. Obviously. Enough herp-derp -- be it teabagger, conservative, liberal, libertarian or whatever -- is enough. It's time for the grownups who understand that the world can be a complicated place, and no issue of great weight is ever as simple as it first appears, to get in here and start deciding how to handle things.
 
2012-12-17 01:26:18 PM

homelessdude: Yeah, cause you know, when society breaks down, the first things the Godless Sodomite Philistines will come for are the homes valued around $600k and up


In Connecticut, used cardboard boxes in the middle of the street start in the low $700ks.
 
2012-12-17 01:26:27 PM
So let me get this straight...the woman was stockpiling guns as a result of an Obama-inspired conspiracy to impose dictatorship on Americans, and the Obama government "coming to take away our guns", which resulted in her son using those weapons on a killing spree, which may prompt the Obama administration to pass more strict gun-control laws.

Full circle?
 
2012-12-17 01:26:33 PM
bluefoxicy: Wolf_Blitzer: Do you honestly, sincerely believe that your area is full of people waiting to bust down your door, steal everything you own and rape you, the second they find out there's no guns in your home?

My back door has about 30 or 40 impact marks on it where a battering ram was taken to it in an attempt to force entry.

My home defense system consists of a 2x4. Everyone in my area has steel bars permanently mounted to the windows around the basement and first floor.


Do you have a meth lab in your basement?
 
2012-12-17 01:26:44 PM
If we lived in Sparta this wouldn't be an issue, obviously parent's raising children with mental defects is harming society.
 
2012-12-17 01:26:50 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: dittybopper: As for reporting them lost or stolen, that's hard to do with your face shot off.

Ah, yes. You must be another one of those "responsible gun owners" I keep hearing about. A man in a perpetual state of pants-wetting paranoia about the very low possibility that somebody might break into his occupied home and attempt to harm him or his family.


I was talking about the mother, you know, the one who was killed first, and thus couldn't report the guns as stolen? Or is your reading comprehension really that bad?
 
2012-12-17 01:27:08 PM
I see a lot of painters in this thread painting with really broad brushes.
 
2012-12-17 01:27:23 PM

Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.

hey, I like those stories!

on a more serious note - not all preppers are crazy, but a lot of crazy people are preppers. given the situation after hurricane katrina or again after hurricane sandy...preparing for a long term disruption of power and food distribution systems is starting to look like plain common sense and not an indication of crazy loonie toons insanity.


You know what's the best way to prepare for long-term disruption of power and food distribution systems? By paying for improvements to the country's infrastructure so that when the next storm or earthquake hits, the damage will be minimal.

I look at pictures of the 1906 earthquake in San Francisco and compare that to the 1989 Loma Prieta and the 1994 Northridge. Both the latter earthquakes were equally or stronger than the 1906, but the devastation from the 1906 earthquakes was total while the more recent ones had almost no significant deaths and only some damage to transportation systems (Nimitz Freeway destroyed, Embarcadero freeway destroyed, 280 from King Street to the 280-101 junction unstable). In Northridge, just one or two major freeways were destroyed. Not a single major building had any noticeable impairment, and only a few homes were destroyed (most in the Marina district where the foundation was, er, shaky).

What that tells me is improving the infrastructure would help tremendously.

Being a survivalist is the most expensive and least efficient way to survive a major catastrophe. Pitching in and working as a community by paying more taxes to build and set better standards for infrastructure is the cheapest and most efficient way to deal with major uncertainties.
 
2012-12-17 01:27:26 PM
I did kind of wonder why a schoolteacher had a Bushmaster, a .40 Glock and a Sig. Those are very pricey, specialty weapons, not the sort of thing you own unless you are pretty serious about guns.
 
2012-12-17 01:27:31 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Coco LaFemme: She helped create the monster, she should have been made to pay for it.

Well, actually, she did.


This is why I live in a bulletproof American Gladiator ball. You can never be too careful.
 
2012-12-17 01:27:37 PM
Utter fail, Fark.

Subby should be school massacred for his idiotic use of "whom" and the rest of you should feel really bad about not making him feel really bad about it.
 
2012-12-17 01:27:50 PM

Crewmannumber6: HotWingConspiracy: Crewmannumber6: HotWingConspiracy: There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.

I have 2 guns, a shotgun and a rifle, both of which I iniherited from my father. They've been locked in a safe for 30 years, until a month ago when there was an escaped prisoner loose in our neighborhood. I got out the shotgun, loaded it with the chamber empty, and kept it with me until we got the all clear, at which time I unloaded it and locked it back in the safe. untilk that night, my kids didn't know that I had any guns.

You Sir, are an idiot.

Hopefully one day you don't decide to off your wife and kids and shoot up your workplace. Because you might, at any point for any reason.

Basically I'll reserve judgement on your level of responsibility until after you die. Then we can look at totals.

Glad to see you're keeping an open mind


That's a problem with putting someone on ignore - when some responds to their comment - you are reminded again why you put that douche bag on ignore in the first place.
 
2012-12-17 01:27:57 PM

bluefoxicy: My home defense system consists of a 2x4.


Mine is a Pakistani 'hunting sword'. The houses here are too close together for anything with range.
 
2012-12-17 01:28:17 PM

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: dittybopper: My point is that just because her 20 year old son, who lived in the house, figured out how to get the guns, that doesn't necessarily mean they weren't properly secured.

There are not entirely verified reports that she took him to the gun range with her. I'm still waiting for all the facts to sort out, but I would not entirely be surprised if she never expected her pride and joy to turn on her. Being family can blind us to a lot of problems.


That's true also.
 
2012-12-17 01:28:31 PM

dittybopper: bulldg4life: She did a shiat job of securing her weapons, then.

How do we know? For all we know, she stored the guns in a safe, and the son stole the key while she was sleeping.


The plan was probably underway for awhile, hidden under his bed one small piece of the puzzle at a time, carefully waiting, and then once she laid down for a nap...

i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-17 01:28:37 PM
NRA reaction before: This tragedy happened because none of the victims owned a gun. If even one victim had been prepared, it would have saved a lot of lives.

NRA reaction now: ...
 
2012-12-17 01:28:43 PM

Moonfisher: Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.

hey, I like those stories!

on a more serious note - not all preppers are crazy, but a lot of crazy people are preppers. given the situation after hurricane katrina or again after hurricane sandy...preparing for a long term disruption of power and food distribution systems is starting to look like plain common sense and not an indication of crazy loonie toons insanity.

There is a big difference between being prepared for a disaster and being a "prepper." We live in SoCal, so I have a cupboard of canned food and bottled water that could feed us for about 2 weeks in case of an earthquake or other disaster. "Preppers," the type my parents are, think the apocalypse is nigh and hoard mounds of ammo, food, fuel, and make survival backpacks. My dad made us all backpacks when I was a teen that contained binoculars, water proof matches, a gas mask, MREs, you name it. He also thinks that when the world collapses, gold will be useful but ammo will be currency, so he has a reload kit. He has lists of things to prep with that he has printed from WND. Whackados, the lot of them.


All that will be brought on by global warming!

Now do you believe it?
 
2012-12-17 01:28:50 PM

bluefoxicy: Wolf_Blitzer: Do you honestly, sincerely believe that your area is full of people waiting to bust down your door, steal everything you own and rape you, the second they find out there's no guns in your home?

My back door has about 30 or 40 impact marks on it where a battering ram was taken to it in an attempt to force entry.

My home defense system consists of a 2x4. Everyone in my area has steel bars permanently mounted to the windows around the basement and first floor.


Thats great. Do you keep a defibrillator in your house? Because statistically, thats far more likely to be used to save your or a family member's life than a gun.
 
2012-12-17 01:28:56 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: meatsack_01: [causes-prod.caudn.com image 640x636]

Funny - last week the Right felt that public school teachers were worthless moochers off the teat of the Job Creators. This week, they want them all carrying assault rifles.


Well, now, they don't want to actually PAY for that training or the weapons. That would be communism. Or socialism. Or whatever "ism" the Right is up in arms about this week.
 
2012-12-17 01:29:04 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.


Shut your whore mouth!
 
2012-12-17 01:29:23 PM
The solution to this problem is simple: Terminator robots in every classroom.

But not ones modeled on Arnold Schwarzenegger in T1 (T2 and Kindergarten Cop is okay, though. Oh, all right, Arnie in Twins, too, if you must.).
 
2012-12-17 01:29:27 PM

HotWingConspiracy: meatsack_01: [causes-prod.caudn.com image 640x636]

Good luck threatening death to people planning to kill themselves in an attack.


Now now. Never in the history of ever has anybody ever intentionally gone into a public space with the intention of being shot to death by police. I mean. If that actually happened there'd be a name for it, I'm sure. "Getting yourself suicided by law enforcement" or something. I dunno. Something snappy. I'm sure someone can come up with something.

And it's not like these people ever armor themselves. No siree. Can't think of any recent shootings where the perp was wearing enough armor to be largely immune to any serious injury from small arms fire.

Besides, what's better than a semi-automatic crossfire in a crowded elementary school hallway full of small children between largely unpracticed people toting deadly weapons!? I'm sure they'll all know to hit the deck and leopard crawl to cover.

The only solution to violence is an exponential retaliatory increase! Nothing could possibly go wrong with that theory.
 
2012-12-17 01:29:28 PM

Thunderpipes: hammettman: Coco LaFemme: Gee, who would have thought that being a paranoid survivalist stockpiling guns with a mentally disturbed child in the house would end up being a really stupid idea. I wish this woman wasn't dead because if her son hadn't shot her first, I'd be demanding her ass be put on trial for all 26 dead bodies her son racked up. She helped create the monster, she should have been made to pay for it.

THIS

And sadly, it's too soon or too sad to call her a dumbass because polite society says she should be pitied for dying horribly at the hands of her own child. No. fark her. And somebody on teevee no doubt put that B-52 loadfull of weapons grade derp in her pathetic brain. I'd love to know where she acquired that bs.

This is just plain stupid. Dems will just use this as mare ammo to chip away at rights. As terrible as this tragedy is, using it to erode the constitution is a slipper slope.

Cars kill far more people each year. Ban them too?

If you want to fix the problem, start being tough parents again. But liberals don't believe in that. Further left we go, the worse society gets.


At first glance, I'd laugh and say that you're trolling, and rather badly at that. But after reviewing your grammar and the stupidly of your argument, I'd have to guess that you're just an average, perhaps a bit farther on the right, Republican with a very loose grasp of reality.
 
2012-12-17 01:29:58 PM

godxam: Crewmannumber6: HotWingConspiracy: Crewmannumber6: HotWingConspiracy: There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.

I have 2 guns, a shotgun and a rifle, both of which I iniherited from my father. They've been locked in a safe for 30 years, until a month ago when there was an escaped prisoner loose in our neighborhood. I got out the shotgun, loaded it with the chamber empty, and kept it with me until we got the all clear, at which time I unloaded it and locked it back in the safe. untilk that night, my kids didn't know that I had any guns.

You Sir, are an idiot.

Hopefully one day you don't decide to off your wife and kids and shoot up your workplace. Because you might, at any point for any reason.

Basically I'll reserve judgement on your level of responsibility until after you die. Then we can look at totals.

Glad to see you're keeping an open mind

That's a problem with putting someone on ignore - when some responds to their comment - you are reminded again why you put that douche bag on ignore in the first place.


Feel my ubiquity.
 
2012-12-17 01:30:08 PM

bluefoxicy: Sleeping Monkey: She gets the fail award of the year for believing that having assault weapons in her home would make her safe. Now that entire community is paying for her ignorance.

Not necessarily.

There are two more questions here of immediate relevance:

- Would a larger base of armed, trained citizenry prevent more deaths than these occasional outliers?
- Would a larger base of armed, trained citizenry (say, the teachers, or anyone within hearing range of the gunshots) have provided for earlier dispatch of the shooter, such that fewer deaths would have been incurred per incident?

Other questions of longer-term relevance include:

- Can we change our cultural basis to reduce the severity and frequency of these tragedies? (i.e. small children are IMMENSELY preoccupied with shooting and killing people and how awesome blowing things up is; gangsters and criminals are idolized; shooting people makes you really cool. How do we stop this from becoming the mentality of children who grow up into adults that don't always shed this mentality?)

- Can we improve mental health services to detect and treat people, such that fewer will become this unstable?

And so on.


You ass. I like my cozy little world where I have the perfect answer to everything based on what certain people I choose to believe in the media tell me. This not knowing the answer to everything is deeply unsettling.
 
2012-12-17 01:30:24 PM

PreMortem: Court ordered mandatory psychological exams, then involuntary institutionalisation.

We are allowing too many whack jobs to roam freely.


Gun cotnrol or Nutjob control, not sure which is the better solution, but recent events make it painfully clear that our society is in desperate need of one or the other.
 
2012-12-17 01:30:35 PM
What? No who vs whom grammar slap to subby? What is this world coming to!?!
 
2012-12-17 01:30:36 PM

The Larch: NRA reaction before: This tragedy happened because none of the victims owned a gun. If even one victim had been prepared, it would have saved a lot of lives.

NRA reaction now: ...


Well, she obviously didn't have enough guns.
 
2012-12-17 01:31:09 PM

dittybopper: How do we know? For all we know, she stored the guns in a safe, and the son stole the key while she was sleeping.


That, or he coerced he into to doing it-knife to the throat, that sort of thing.

Somehow I don't think there would be too much emphasis on the owner of the gun if he had killed a local cop and taken the AR-15 from his trunk OR the firearm(s) used were stolen from a police vehicle (happens every now and then).
 
2012-12-17 01:31:20 PM

Snarfangel: The solution to this problem is simple: Terminator robots in every classroom.


Better yet, how about an ED-209? Oh, wait...
 
2012-12-17 01:31:54 PM

homelessdude: Survivalist? Oh please........

Yeah, cause you know, when society breaks down, the first things the Godless Sodomite Philistines will come for are the homes valued around $600k and up 

Connecticut shooter Adam Lanza and family members revealed
(examiner.com)


http://thepillars.info/living.htm ???



/so that doesn't happen then?
 
2012-12-17 01:32:09 PM

Snarfangel: minoridiot: Since she divorced Peter, Nancy has had no need to work because she receives $200,000 in support from Peter Lanza.

We either need to ban rich people, the unemployed, or single mothers. I'm trying to decide which.


In the immortal words of Aerosmith: Eat the Rich!
 
2012-12-17 01:32:13 PM

CheapEngineer: tenpoundsofcheese: Diogenes: Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.

hey, I like those stories!

Yes, let's eliminate the First Amendment to protect the Second.

I didn't say that the government should step in an stop it.

The press and hollywood could have a bit of restraint and not put out those stories or those types of shows.

Why do you hate capitalism?


funny. it isn't as if they could make money with different movies or shows than violence-porn like the Walking Dead, Dexter, and Django.
 
2012-12-17 01:32:23 PM

bluefoxicy: tenpoundsofcheese: Their basement is probably packed with food and supplies.

That she thinks will last 20 years, but really is going to last one or two. My parents have so much oat, grain, and flour, and I'm thinking... I could bake a loaf a week and go through this in a year.


Flour is only good for about 6 months without refrigeration.
 
2012-12-17 01:32:47 PM
FTA: ...her arsenal consisting of two handguns, a semi-automatic rifle and two traditional hunting rifles.

5 firearms is an arsenal?

FTA: State Police Lt. Paul Vance, said: "There was a lot of ammo, a lot of clips. Certainly a lot of lives were potentially saved."

Came for the clips vs magazines comment..
/leaves disappointed
 
2012-12-17 01:32:48 PM

hinten: How exactly owning a long list of devices that are primarily designed to kill makes you safer is anyone's guess.


Making sure your long list is longer then the other guys long list?
 
2012-12-17 01:33:30 PM

KungFuJunkie: Why do I get the feeling that the"preppers" will cause the breakdown of our society?


I have always wondered at one point of investment in doomsday preparation does a person need to get to before it is in their best interest to engender the doomsday they have been preparing for?
 
2012-12-17 01:33:36 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Do you keep a defibrillator in your house? Because statistically, thats far more likely to be used to save your or a family member's life than a gun.


Who in the hell would use the defibrillator? The only person ever in my house is me. If anyone else is in the house it's probably a home invader.

I have fire extinguishers. They're actually useful.
 
2012-12-17 01:33:48 PM

dericwater: I look at pictures of the 1906 earthquake in San Francisco and compare that to the 1989 Loma Prieta and the 1994 Northridge....

...What that tells me is improving the infrastructure would help tremendously.

Being a survivalist is the most expensive and least efficient way to survive a major catastrophe. Pitching in and working as a community by paying more taxes to build and set better standards for infrastructure is the cheapest and most efficient way to deal with major uncertainties.


But we ARE improving the infrastructure! Just this year, we spent hundred$ of million$ on maintaining and repairing Mosque$ in the Middle Ea$t!
 
2012-12-17 01:34:04 PM
Not only was she a failure at raising her kids, she was a failure at being a survivalist.
 
2012-12-17 01:34:12 PM

TheOther: Do you have a meth lab in your basement?


No, I have bags of thinset and 14 boxes of porcelain tile. And some tools.
 
2012-12-17 01:34:50 PM

Sleeping Monkey: She gets the fail award of the year for believing that having assault weapons in her home would make her safe. Now that entire community is paying for her ignorance.


I've been having this argument with my family for a few months now, but the answer to this isn't legislation restricting access to guns, but legislation placing 100% responsibility for controlling that gun on the person that legally owns it, and making the penalties for not controlling it absolutely draconian.

If your kid gets your gun and robs the 7-11, you're doing 10 years mandatory minimum. If your kid gets your guns and shoots up an elementary school, you're doing life, no parole.

Gun control should start with gun owners, and positive control of the weapon needs to be the primary responsibility that comes along with it. If this lady knew she could be doing hard prison time if her guns got out of her control, she might have taken better care of them and kept them out of the hands of her nutter kid.

Guns belong on your person, or locked up tight. Not in your nightstand or under your bed.
 
2012-12-17 01:35:00 PM

Launch Code: It takes a human to commit the act. Do you blame the alcohol or the car for a drunk driving death? Of course the super libtard will reflect on soldiers using guns in battle.


God damnit so much.

Sorry Americans but you're screwed. There are altogether too many morons living in your country with an IQ on par with Homer Simpson.

Outside of your own country people would think of you as mildly retarted for that kind of derp.
 
2012-12-17 01:35:04 PM

JRoo: probesport: "Mrs Lanza, 52, was a 'prepper' - so called because they are preparing for a breakdown in civilized society - who apparently became obsessed with guns and taught Adam and his older brother, Ryan, how to shoot, even taking them to local ranges."

Oh my what a horrible, horrible person. She even took them to shooting ranges? Why not puppy farms with bounce houses?

Why not puppy farms with bounce houses?

Maybe he would rather have gone there but she wouldn't take him and made him learn how to be an efficient killer instead.

I think most people are pretty crazy until they reach about their upper twenties.


Crazy raises crazy, I was in my career and just bought a house at 20 with little to no crazy. Teaching kids how to plink paper targets does not make them efficient killers anymore than teaching someone how to cut a steak makes them a coroner.
 
2012-12-17 01:35:26 PM
Guns make a mans pecker hard and ready.
You Libs just cannot understand that.
 
2012-12-17 01:35:49 PM

meatsack_01: utahraptor2: If a teacher would have been armed, he wouldn't have gotten very far.

This


Teachers don't carry guns for the same reason prison guards don't.
 
2012-12-17 01:36:22 PM

Phineas: First rule of being liberal: hate the parts of the Constitution that your friends, teachers, and television tell you to hate

Second rule of being liberal: blame Conservativism and capitalism for everything that goes wrong, including hurricanes, economic collapses, and insane people who butcher innocents

Third rule of being liberal: if you must defend insane people who butcher innocents, make sure they're middle eastern, then sympathize with their plight and how they're treated in captivity

And finally, the fourth rule, read Fark, dailykos, huffington post, basically any site where you can congregate with other liberals and congratulate each other for how much smarter and tolerant you are, tolerant of everyone that beileves what you believe, that is.


Can't speak for anyone else, but I've TRIED to 'congregate' over on FreeRepublic.

They banned me for asking a question.

If you think Fark's too liberal, I recommend the "ignore" button.

Use it...liberally :)
 
2012-12-17 01:36:34 PM

dopekitty74: Snarfangel: minoridiot: Since she divorced Peter, Nancy has had no need to work because she receives $200,000 in support from Peter Lanza.

We either need to ban rich people, the unemployed, or single mothers. I'm trying to decide which.

In the immortal words of Aerosmith: Eat the Rich!


"Steven Tallarico, known around the world as rock singer and musician Steven Tyler, has a net worth estimated at $130 million"

From celebritynetworth.com 

I guess they would prefer you eat the other rich people.
 
2012-12-17 01:36:36 PM

probesport: "Mrs Lanza, 52, was a 'prepper' - so called because they are preparing for a breakdown in civilized society - who apparently became obsessed with guns and taught Adam and his older brother, Ryan, how to shoot, even taking them to local ranges."

Oh my what a horrible, horrible person. She even took them to shooting ranges? Why not puppy farms with bounce houses?


Imagining cute little puppies happily bouncing around is making me smile. :)
 
2012-12-17 01:37:05 PM

vpb: If the victims had had military style cargo pants this wouldn't have happened.


Do they make them that small?
 
2012-12-17 01:37:08 PM

dericwater: Being a survivalist is the most expensive and least efficient way to survive a major catastrophe.


I happen to disagree.

Most of what people would call "survivalism" isn't stocking up on X, Y, or Z, but gathering the skills and knowledge to deal with a crisis. For example, describe to me 3 ways to make water potable in an emergency situation. What common food items found in every kitchen can be used for heat, light, and cooking? There is likely a good source of emergency electricity on your property, do you know how to exploit that?

Now, doomsday preppers are one thing, but being prepared for relatively common, but extended disasters isn't a bad thing. And yeah, having some extra canned goods, etc., around doesn't hurt, of course.
 
2012-12-17 01:37:19 PM

Rent Party: Sleeping Monkey: She gets the fail award of the year for believing that having assault weapons in her home would make her safe. Now that entire community is paying for her ignorance.

I've been having this argument with my family for a few months now, but the answer to this isn't legislation restricting access to guns, but legislation placing 100% responsibility for controlling that gun on the person that legally owns it, and making the penalties for not controlling it absolutely draconian.

If your kid gets your gun and robs the 7-11, you're doing 10 years mandatory minimum. If your kid gets your guns and shoots up an elementary school, you're doing life, no parole.

Gun control should start with gun owners, and positive control of the weapon needs to be the primary responsibility that comes along with it. If this lady knew she could be doing hard prison time if her guns got out of her control, she might have taken better care of them and kept them out of the hands of her nutter kid.

Guns belong on your person, or locked up tight. Not in your nightstand or under your bed.


What if someone steals your car and uses it to commit a crime?
 
2012-12-17 01:37:20 PM

This text is now purple: homelessdude: Yeah, cause you know, when society breaks down, the first things the Godless Sodomite Philistines will come for are the homes valued around $600k and up
In Connecticut, used cardboard boxes in the middle of the street start in the low $700ks.


No, don't even. this isn't "property values." They were well off.

i.dailymail.co.uk
 
2012-12-17 01:37:35 PM

the_end_is_rear: Guns make a mans pecker hard and ready.
You Libs just cannot understand that.


Careful not to get any jizz on your gun while you're jacking...
 
2012-12-17 01:37:46 PM

TheOther: Preppers are just stockpiling food, ammo and women for me to come along and take from them.


The other thing that's funny is the anti-social people believing they'll survive. Humans will survive like they always have: banding together in groups to further their common interest. Solo preppers will be screwed.
 
2012-12-17 01:37:47 PM

occamswrist: Moonfisher: Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.

hey, I like those stories!

on a more serious note - not all preppers are crazy, but a lot of crazy people are preppers. given the situation after hurricane katrina or again after hurricane sandy...preparing for a long term disruption of power and food distribution systems is starting to look like plain common sense and not an indication of crazy loonie toons insanity.

There is a big difference between being prepared for a disaster and being a "prepper." We live in SoCal, so I have a cupboard of canned food and bottled water that could feed us for about 2 weeks in case of an earthquake or other disaster. "Preppers," the type my parents are, think the apocalypse is nigh and hoard mounds of ammo, food, fuel, and make survival backpacks. My dad made us all backpacks when I was a teen that contained binoculars, water proof matches, a gas mask, MREs, you name it. He also thinks that when the world collapses, gold will be useful but ammo will be currency, so he has a reload kit. He has lists of things to prep with that he has printed from WND. Whackados, the lot of them.

All that will be brought on by global warming!

Now do you believe it?


No. Climate change will eventually start causing some very uncomfortable situations, but it probably won't lead to Armageddon in my lifetime.
 
2012-12-17 01:38:26 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: keep seeing derp like this. Tell me - what is a firearm a "tool" for, other than the infliction of death or the threat of death?


To protect your life against someone that is intent on taking it.
 
2012-12-17 01:38:51 PM

JerkyMeat: The message is clear. Right wingers, you are the nutbag enemy of society


That's ok, left wingers are the nutbag enema of society.
 
2012-12-17 01:38:57 PM
The truly ironic thing here is that all these "OMG, the gummint is gonna take our gunz!" nutjobs will probably be the reason the government steps in and takes our guns, or at least limits the types of guns we can have.

/libby lib with a sizable arsenal
 
2012-12-17 01:39:00 PM

Magorn: Gun cotnrol or Nutjob control, not sure which is the better solution, but recent events make it painfully clear that our society is in desperate need of one or the other.


Incorrect. We need a balanced approach to both. We can't just lock up everyone who makes us feel uncomfortable--who has a statistical likelihood to commit a certain crime. We also can't just collect up all the firearms in this country. What we can do is place reasonable restrictions on who can have those firearms, what kinds, and so on; and we can provide for more detection and treatment of dangerous mental disorders.

Combining these approaches will reduce, but not eliminate, the threats in two overlapping groups; the remainder of overlap will thus form two more overlapping groups, leaving an even smaller overlap of people who will eventually pose a problem. That's a major reduction for relatively minor effort.
 
2012-12-17 01:39:02 PM

Snarfangel: probesport: "Mrs Lanza, 52, was a 'prepper' - so called because they are preparing for a breakdown in civilized society - who apparently became obsessed with guns and taught Adam and his older brother, Ryan, how to shoot, even taking them to local ranges."

Oh my what a horrible, horrible person. She even took them to shooting ranges? Why not puppy farms with bounce houses?

Imagining cute little puppies happily bouncing around is making me smile. :)


t3.gstatic.com
 
2012-12-17 01:39:36 PM

Launch Code: It takes a human to commit the act. Do you blame the alcohol or the car for a drunk driving death? Of course the super libtard will reflect on soldiers using guns in battle. Are you then calling the people that defend us murderers?
Wake up leftys, evil people do evil things! Don't blame the tool for the destruction


The point of gun control for things like the AR-15 isn't that someone can't kill someone. If someone is determined to kill a person there's plenty of ways they can do it without a gun. However, it's really really really hard for someone to kill 26 people in one place without certain types of guns. The other ways you can do it? All heavily restricted if not flat-out illegal.
 
2012-12-17 01:39:45 PM

probesport: JRoo: probesport: "Mrs Lanza, 52, was a 'prepper' - so called because they are preparing for a breakdown in civilized society - who apparently became obsessed with guns and taught Adam and his older brother, Ryan, how to shoot, even taking them to local ranges."

Oh my what a horrible, horrible person. She even took them to shooting ranges? Why not puppy farms with bounce houses?

Why not puppy farms with bounce houses?

Maybe he would rather have gone there but she wouldn't take him and made him learn how to be an efficient killer instead.

I think most people are pretty crazy until they reach about their upper twenties.

Crazy raises crazy, I was in my career and just bought a house at 20 with little to no crazy. Teaching kids how to plink paper targets does not make them efficient killers anymore than teaching someone how to cut a steak makes them a coroner.


So knowing everything about the weapons and how to load and fire them and having perfect aim didn't make him any more efficient?

She wasn't taking him out to the backyard with a BB gun to shoot at cans.
 
2012-12-17 01:40:07 PM
If I've learned one thing from gaming, it's that even those who are completely unprepared can eventually go on to win, if they have a good head on their shoulders.

th09.deviantart.net

Of course, that's why most survivalists are survivalists.
 
2012-12-17 01:40:21 PM

JackieRabbit: the_end_is_rear: Guns make a mans pecker hard and ready.
You Libs just cannot understand that.

Careful not to get any jizz on your gun while you're jacking...


I was hoping someone would get my trolling post and comment.
You did not disappoint.
 
2012-12-17 01:40:29 PM

Jument: tenpoundsofcheese: Diogenes: Weaver95: tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.

hey, I like those stories!

Yes, let's eliminate the First Amendment to protect the Second.

I didn't say that the government should step in an stop it.

The press and hollywood could have a bit of restraint and not put out those stories or those types of shows.

It's fiction. When people start reacting badly IRL to fiction, the problem is not with the creators of the fiction. Hint: crazy people are crazy.


Sure enough, crazy people are crazy. A good tautology is never wrong.

On the other hand, the whole "art imitates life vs life imitates art" debate around whether violence on film and TV and in video games is reflective or constitutive of our violent culture is reductionist. Popular culture - like movies, music, TV, video games, sports - helps to reproduce and reshape our culture. The images of armed heroes (and antiheroes, and even villains) prevalent in so much of our popular culture can not be isolated from the widespread belief in our society that sometimes violence is good and just, and it's often a good bit of fun. These images reproduce and strengthen those sentiments. They make it easier for us to accept IRL that violence is all around us, inevitable, and sometimes fun. Sure, these folks took it to extremes, but it's a continuum, not a binary. And the line between crazy and not-crazy, especially when it comes to glorifying guns and violence is anything but clear.
 
2012-12-17 01:40:50 PM

the_end_is_rear: Guns make a mans pecker hard and ready.
You Libs just cannot understand that.


*TWEET*

Markley's Law violation. Ten yard penalty and loss of argument.
 
2012-12-17 01:41:18 PM

fappomatic: Heathen: so having a couple hundred rounds of ammo in your house makes you a prepper?

I was a prepper and didn't even know it.

If that's the case, I'm an international small dealer.

\I get a call from Midsouth every time I order.... "Hey Fapp, did you actually order 40,000 pistol primers or did your cat step on the zero key?"


Well i sleep on a bed made out of 11 billion guns, so i win.
 
2012-12-17 01:41:45 PM
Huh, I haven't followed the story closely and some things about the article were really confusing.

He shot his mother at her/their home and then got the guns and then went to the school to shoot up a random classroom?

That is farked up.

And why did they write that he cold have done more damage if he hadn't been stopped? And further on they write that he shot himself. So he stopped himself or what?
 
2012-12-17 01:41:49 PM

JRoo: So knowing everything about the weapons and how to load and fire them and having perfect aim didn't make him any more efficient?


Efficient at loading and firing weapons, yes.
 
2012-12-17 01:41:50 PM

dennysgod: Not only was she a failure at raising her kids, she was a failure at being a survivalist.


"Failure at being a survivalist" is a redundancy.
 
2012-12-17 01:42:23 PM
There sure seem to be a lot of scared people in this world and, well, here too.
I believe in being prudent.
Prudent is keeping an eye on things.

I'd prefer to think there's enough sane people to keep things on a relatively even keel.
If I'm wrong then say so when you're eatin' my carcass. Be polite though, NOT with your mouth full

It's a sad thing to go into a gun shop and see white trash spending six months wages on a Desert Eagle .44 and associated accouterments and THEN the damn sun comes up the next day. It's not like it's gonna stop them from drinking the rest of it away either.
Such a disappointment.
 
2012-12-17 01:42:43 PM

dittybopper: the_end_is_rear: Guns make a mans pecker hard and ready.
You Libs just cannot understand that.

*TWEET*

Markley's Law violation. Ten yard penalty and loss of argument.


Awesome!!
 
2012-12-17 01:43:14 PM

NightOwl2255: As she laid there in bed with her son pointing a rifle at her, I wonder what the last thing that went through her mind was.


Bullets ??
 
2012-12-17 01:43:15 PM
bluefoxicy: TheOther: Do you have a meth lab in your basement?

No, I have bags of thinset and 14 boxes of porcelain tile. And some tools.


'That tile is crooked.'
"If I try to straighten it, it will throw off the rest of the row and I'll have to start all over."
'I said we should pay a pro to do this.'
"Your brother isn't a pro at anything but twitching and stealing my beer."
'See, we should have built the meth lab instead.'

"..."
 
2012-12-17 01:43:37 PM

thornhill: There have been a number recent militia plots to kill law enforcement officers and Sovereign Citizens have killed a number of police officers recently. It just doesn't get any national media attention because it happens in flyover country. The plotters typically get caught because they don't know the first rule about fight club. Check this out. What's unusually about the Newtown shooting was that schools kids were targeted instead of a representative of the Federal Government.


Those are more crazy people trying to cause the collapse of civilization. I'm talking about the kids of the crazy people, their families, and the crazy people themselves to a degree. If you spend years telling your 15 year old that the world is going to end and they won't live long enough to become an adult, how many are going to decide just to end it all like this douche bag did? I mean, why not? The world is going to end, not like they have anything to live for.
 
2012-12-17 01:43:41 PM

NightOwl2255: As she laid there in bed with her son pointing a rifle at her, I wonder what the last thing that went through her mind was.


a couple of rounds of .223?
 
2012-12-17 01:43:45 PM

GQueue: Launch Code: It takes a human to commit the act. Do you blame the alcohol or the car for a drunk driving death? Of course the super libtard will reflect on soldiers using guns in battle. Are you then calling the people that defend us murderers?
Wake up leftys, evil people do evil things! Don't blame the tool for the destruction

The point of gun control for things like the AR-15 isn't that someone can't kill someone. If someone is determined to kill a person there's plenty of ways they can do it without a gun. However, it's really really really hard for someone to kill 26 people in one place without certain types of guns. The other ways you can do it? All heavily restricted if not flat-out illegal.


Gasoline is heavily restricted now? That explains the price.
 
2012-12-17 01:43:49 PM
Look at your Republican neighbor. That man will kill you.

Time to lock them all up.
 
2012-12-17 01:43:52 PM
All it takes is a single irresponsible, gun-fetishist hoarder to cause an unimaginable tragedy.

There are millions of irresponsible gun owners in the USA.

Is there any reason she couldn't have kept these weapons in a secure location inaccessible to Adam? Or even offsite at a shooting club or something like they do in Europe?

A week before the massacre, one of her beer buddies at the pizza place said she was talking about her son "slipping away" and "unreachable" and burning himself with a lighter. She knew he was spiraling... great idea mom to have an AR-15 and hundreds of rounds available to a psychotic sociopathic Assburger.
 
2012-12-17 01:43:57 PM

Launch Code: [i1253.photobucket.com image 201x251]
It takes a human to commit the act. Do you blame the alcohol or the car for a drunk driving death? Of course the super libtard will reflect on soldiers using guns in battle. Are you then calling the people that defend us murderers?
Wake up leftys, evil people do evil things! Don't blame the tool for the destruction.


How many people does the average rolling pin murderer take out? What a ridiculously stupid argument.
 
2012-12-17 01:44:05 PM

Rent Party: Sleeping Monkey: She gets the fail award of the year for believing that having assault weapons in her home would make her safe. Now that entire community is paying for her ignorance.

I've been having this argument with my family for a few months now, but the answer to this isn't legislation restricting access to guns, but legislation placing 100% responsibility for controlling that gun on the person that legally owns it, and making the penalties for not controlling it absolutely draconian.

If your kid gets your gun and robs the 7-11, you're doing 10 years mandatory minimum. If your kid gets your guns and shoots up an elementary school, you're doing life, no parole.

Gun control should start with gun owners, and positive control of the weapon needs to be the primary responsibility that comes along with it. If this lady knew she could be doing hard prison time if her guns got out of her control, she might have taken better care of them and kept them out of the hands of her nutter kid.

Guns belong on your person, or locked up tight. Not in your nightstand or under your bed.


That seems... reasonable. 
Gun safes are not all that expensive.
 
2012-12-17 01:44:29 PM

PsyLord: Came for the clips vs magazines comment..
/leaves disappointed


I was assuming he had stripper clips for fast mag reload. So he had both clips and mags.
 
2012-12-17 01:44:33 PM

BizarreMan: To those people calling his mother out on not having a gun safe. There is nothing to say she didn't have one. She may have had trigger locks on them. But a 20 year old who lives in the house with her, who has gone to the gun range with her, will most likely know the combination to the safe and where the trigger lock key is.


That is exactly what I am thinking. Not to say she did no wrong. If the thought "My son is becoming unstable and I'm worried about him." crossed her mind she should have packed up her guns and taken them somehere safe. IDK with a trusted friend in their safe, maybe sell them>
 
2012-12-17 01:44:56 PM
img836.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-17 01:44:57 PM

internut scholar: Wolf_Blitzer: keep seeing derp like this. Tell me - what is a firearm a "tool" for, other than the infliction of death or the threat of death?

To protect your life against someone that is intent on taking it.


By inflicting death, or the threat of death, yes? Its a simple question.
 
2012-12-17 01:45:43 PM

Launch Code: [i1253.photobucket.com image 201x251]
It takes a human to commit the act. Do you blame the alcohol or the car for a drunk driving death? Of course the super libtard will reflect on soldiers using guns in battle. Are you then calling the people that defend us murderers?
Wake up leftys, evil people do evil things! Don't blame the tool for the destruction.



lmao, yeah but give me one example of a mall/theater/school massacre with a hammer or a rolling pin

evil, violent, careless people exist everywhere.. but firearms undeniably enable them to do much worse to much more than any other tool

/facepalm
 
2012-12-17 01:45:48 PM

Carn: Launch Code: [i1253.photobucket.com image 201x251]
It takes a human to commit the act. Do you blame the alcohol or the car for a drunk driving death? Of course the super libtard will reflect on soldiers using guns in battle. Are you then calling the people that defend us murderers?
Wake up leftys, evil people do evil things! Don't blame the tool for the destruction.

How many people does the average rolling pin murderer take out? What a ridiculously stupid argument.


Is it an African or European rolling pin?
 
2012-12-17 01:46:04 PM

Launch Code: [i1253.photobucket.com image 201x251]
It takes a human to commit the act. Do you blame the alcohol or the car for a drunk driving death? Of course the super libtard will reflect on soldiers using guns in battle. Are you then calling the people that defend us murderers?
Wake up leftys, evil people do evil things! Don't blame the tool for the destruction.


Firearm homicides in the US: 11,493
All other homicides in the US: 5,306

Guns are used to murder more than twice as many people in the US as all other weapons combined.
Source: CDC, 2009 statistics
 
2012-12-17 01:46:55 PM

the_end_is_rear: JackieRabbit: the_end_is_rear: Guns make a mans pecker hard and ready.
You Libs just cannot understand that.

Careful not to get any jizz on your gun while you're jacking...

I was hoping someone would get my trolling post and comment.
You did not disappoint.


You're welcome. We might as well have fun in what promises to be a week of endless gun wonking posts.
 
2012-12-17 01:47:26 PM
I think the kid went after first graders because he knew if he went after second graders they would have beat his ass.
 
2012-12-17 01:47:31 PM
Can we PLEASE get "Doomsday Preppers" off the air now? Paranoid delusions are a mental disorder, not fodder for a farking wacky reality television competition.

/Spare me your predictable responses- I'm not suggesting the government should ban it. Just that whatever terrible cable channel its on come to their g.d. senses and pull it.
 
2012-12-17 01:47:47 PM
Did anybody else point out that the "article" is from a website that pays its "reporters" by the amount of traffic the story generates?

Oh yeah those daily mail links. I'm sure it's legit
 
2012-12-17 01:48:06 PM

spidermilk: BizarreMan: To those people calling his mother out on not having a gun safe. There is nothing to say she didn't have one. She may have had trigger locks on them. But a 20 year old who lives in the house with her, who has gone to the gun range with her, will most likely know the combination to the safe and where the trigger lock key is.

That is exactly what I am thinking. Not to say she did no wrong. If the thought "My son is becoming unstable and I'm worried about him." crossed her mind she should have packed up her guns and taken them somehere safe. IDK with a trusted friend in their safe, maybe sell them>


Really? her mind would jump to that conclusion? A gun is a tool, that if used responsibly is safe to be around. She taught him how to use and respect firearms. You're also assuming she didn't have them locked up, what if she did? Do you really think a 20 year old can't figure out how to access something? Look at all the "hacktivists" anon has. The internet makes it a lot easier to figure out how to crack a safe, or maybe he found her key hiding place, she was asleep, maybe he pulled the key from her purse. Should she have locked the key in another safe, and then locked that key elsewhere as well?
 
2012-12-17 01:48:44 PM
Preppers are smart people.
Everyone should have 2-4 weeks of supplies.
Natural disasters happen.

Everyone hopes no doomsday scenario happens in your lifetime, but to bury your head in the sand and act like it's an impossibility is just plain stupid.
 
2012-12-17 01:49:02 PM

SlothB77: KungFuJunkie: Why do I get the feeling that the"preppers" will cause the breakdown of our society?

I have always wondered at one point of investment in doomsday preparation does a person need to get to before it is in their best interest to engender the doomsday they have been preparing for?


Well, this gallon can of freeze dried strouganoff is about to expire, and I've got this big red button on my desk...
 
2012-12-17 01:49:17 PM

Launch Code: It takes a human to commit the act. Do you blame the alcohol or the car for a drunk driving death? Of course the super libtard will reflect on soldiers using guns in battle. Are you then calling the people that defend us murderers?
Wake up leftys, evil people do evil things! Don't blame the tool for the destruction.


So we should not ban fully automatic weapons? Why not make building bombs legal? I mean if some ones going to kill people...
 
2012-12-17 01:49:30 PM

bluefoxicy: My back door has about 30 or 40 impact marks on it where a battering ram was taken to it in an attempt to force entry.


What the hell is your door frame made from?
 
2012-12-17 01:49:41 PM

Carn: Launch Code: [i1253.photobucket.com image 201x251]
It takes a human to commit the act. Do you blame the alcohol or the car for a drunk driving death? Of course the super libtard will reflect on soldiers using guns in battle. Are you then calling the people that defend us murderers?
Wake up leftys, evil people do evil things! Don't blame the tool for the destruction.

How many people does the average rolling pin murderer take out? What a ridiculously stupid argument.


Rolling pin murderers don't kill for sport, they just knead the dough.
 
2012-12-17 01:49:47 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Carn: Launch Code: [i1253.photobucket.com image 201x251]
It takes a human to commit the act. Do you blame the alcohol or the car for a drunk driving death? Of course the super libtard will reflect on soldiers using guns in battle. Are you then calling the people that defend us murderers?
Wake up leftys, evil people do evil things! Don't blame the tool for the destruction.

How many people does the average rolling pin murderer take out? What a ridiculously stupid argument.

Is it an African or European rolling pin?


Which one weighs more? Let's say European.
 
2012-12-17 01:50:08 PM

dittybopper: For example, describe to me 3 ways to make water potable in an emergency situation. What common food items found in every kitchen can be used for heat, light, and cooking? There is likely a good source of emergency electricity on your property, do you know how to exploit that?


Off the top of my head... boil it, expose it to light (30 minutes in a PET bottle--i.e. a 2L soda bottle--in direct sunlight will do; 45 to be safe); and ... come on, I've got to have another one in my head. Chemically you could add iodine, then precipitate the iodine out, but that's too complex. NOTHING helps contaminated water except reverse-osmosis--MAYBE--so we're just clearing bacteria here. Yeah I only got 2.

Common food items found in every kitchen for heat, light, and cooking? Uh. Good question. Most plants burn. Salt, iron, magnesium, and water will do it but I can't think of a way to pull that off with food. Aluminum mixed with iron oxide and ignited will go up pretty hot. Somehow I doubt your answer is going to contain anything in my kitchen--except salt, I bet salt is part of it.

I don't have a good source of emergency electricity. I can make bad sources of electricity by cranking the motor on the washing machine or dryer, though I've considered getting rid of those (I didn't use either for like 3 years).
 
2012-12-17 01:50:08 PM

Satanic_Hamster: thornhill: There have been a number recent militia plots to kill law enforcement officers and Sovereign Citizens have killed a number of police officers recently. It just doesn't get any national media attention because it happens in flyover country. The plotters typically get caught because they don't know the first rule about fight club. Check this out. What's unusually about the Newtown shooting was that schools kids were targeted instead of a representative of the Federal Government.

Those are more crazy people trying to cause the collapse of civilization. I'm talking about the kids of the crazy people, their families, and the crazy people themselves to a degree. If you spend years telling your 15 year old that the world is going to end and they won't live long enough to become an adult, how many are going to decide just to end it all like this douche bag did? I mean, why not? The world is going to end, not like they have anything to live for.


Read this:

Deadly Arkansas Shooting By 'Sovereigns' Jerry and Joe Kane Who Shun U.S. Law
July 1, 2010


Video released by West Memphis authorities shows the graphic detail. As the officers questioned Jerry Kane, his son Joe suddenly leaped out of the minivan and opened fire on the officers with an AK-47 assault rifle
 
2012-12-17 01:50:10 PM
Well funded, national healthcare (including comprehensive mental health care), as well as the removal of the stigmas associated with those who seek out mental health care when they need it, could have likely prevented this tragedy. But let's keep derping about gun control.
 
2012-12-17 01:50:22 PM
Fark this I'm out.
img255.imageshack.us
 
2012-12-17 01:50:36 PM

GrizzlyPouch: Did anybody else point out that the "article" is from a website that pays its "reporters" by the amount of traffic the story generates?

Oh yeah those daily mail links. I'm sure it's legit


Also, this.

The "references" were kind of a newspaper circlejerk.

I'm holding off in this case until we get more info.
 
2012-12-17 01:50:50 PM
dk47: TheOther: Preppers are just stockpiling food, ammo and women for me to come along and take from them.

The other thing that's funny is the anti-social people believing they'll survive. Humans will survive like they always have: banding together in groups to further their common interest. Solo preppers will be screwed.


On 'How It's Made', I saw about the fiendishness of razor wire and how impenetrable it was...unless you have a couple of sheets of heavy plywood to bridge it.

I'm joining a roving band of post-apocalyptic raiders for sure!
 
2012-12-17 01:50:55 PM

OrangeSnapper: Launch Code: [i1253.photobucket.com image 201x251]
It takes a human to commit the act. Do you blame the alcohol or the car for a drunk driving death? Of course the super libtard will reflect on soldiers using guns in battle. Are you then calling the people that defend us murderers?
Wake up leftys, evil people do evil things! Don't blame the tool for the destruction.

Firearm homicides in the US: 11,493
All other homicides in the US: 5,306

Guns are used to murder more than twice as many people in the US as all other weapons combined.
Source: CDC, 2009 statistics


I'm not saying that you're wrong, but the 11,493 includes all homicides, such as people shot by police, people who shoot themselves, etc.
 
2012-12-17 01:51:01 PM

WizardofToast: I think 'end of the world' scenarios have really warped the brains of some people in society. And all this doomsday crap is driving people to do crazy things. I wouldn't be surprised if some people snap on December 21 thinking the world is ending when really it farking isn't. Everyone seems to think the world ends on Friday but has no farking clue how it will.


Since I live in a fairly Red and derpy part of my State (Oregon), it might be a good idea to stay inside...
 
2012-12-17 01:51:03 PM
According to TMZ (yeah, yeah) she received $240K in spousal support in 2010 and it was set to increase every year. In 2012 she was to receive $289K. That's a lot of stocking up money.
 
2012-12-17 01:51:37 PM

Snarfangel: Carn: Launch Code: [i1253.photobucket.com image 201x251]
It takes a human to commit the act. Do you blame the alcohol or the car for a drunk driving death? Of course the super libtard will reflect on soldiers using guns in battle. Are you then calling the people that defend us murderers?
Wake up leftys, evil people do evil things! Don't blame the tool for the destruction.

How many people does the average rolling pin murderer take out? What a ridiculously stupid argument.

Rolling pin murderers don't kill for sport, they just knead the dough.


+eleventy
 
2012-12-17 01:51:59 PM

SnarfVader: El_Frijole_Blanco: So a Teabagger Mormon then

FTFY


Hush. Not even close.

We (are supposed to) keep a years supply of food for hard times - with the intention of being able to share it with our neighbors. or others in need.

Yeah, there are redneck gun-loving mormons, but they are in the same places as the redneck gun-loving non-mormons, and it is the location/culture/family tradition element that causes that, not any mormoness.

Me, personally, I hate guns, and would never allow one in my house. My wife, from New Zealand, where guns aren't allowed by civilians and they like it that way, feels the same.

/I also keep my years supply of food storage around my waist, thank you very much.
 
2012-12-17 01:51:59 PM

PunGent: SlothB77: KungFuJunkie: Why do I get the feeling that the"preppers" will cause the breakdown of our society?

I have always wondered at one point of investment in doomsday preparation does a person need to get to before it is in their best interest to engender the doomsday they have been preparing for?

Well, this gallon can of freeze dried strouganoff is about to expire, and I've got this big red button on my desk...


I was thinking of buying one of those 10 gallon drums filled with freeze dried meals. Not because I'm a doomsday prepper, mind you. Hurricane Sandy flooded the shiat out of my parent's house earlier this year and pre-made meals could've come in handy.
 
2012-12-17 01:52:57 PM
Right-Wing rhetoric and fear mongering has no consequences.
 
2012-12-17 01:53:01 PM

Just for a fact check on statements up thread (emphasis mine) (cdc 2009 stats):


Motor vehicle traffic deaths

Number of deaths: 34,485
Deaths per 100,000 population: 11.2

All firearm deaths

Number of deaths: 31,347
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.2


By no means at all is that "far more deaths" from cars. Source. It is my understanding the 2012 stats are even tighter, and gun deaths are trending up and car deaths are trending down.
 
2012-12-17 01:53:11 PM

meatsack_01: [causes-prod.caudn.com image 640x636]


Neither...
 
2012-12-17 01:53:18 PM

TheOther: bluefoxicy: TheOther: Do you have a meth lab in your basement?

No, I have bags of thinset and 14 boxes of porcelain tile. And some tools.

'That tile is crooked.'
"If I try to straighten it, it will throw off the rest of the row and I'll have to start all over."
'I said we should pay a pro to do this.'
"Your brother isn't a pro at anything but twitching and stealing my beer."
'See, we should have built the meth lab instead.'

"..."


sigh... you lay out the room first, then decide what you need to cut, how it's going to lay out, etc. You put the tiles down, place the rubber spacers between them, measure it out that way. When you're done that, you mark where they go, pick a starting point. Then you take the tile up, chalk line your guides, and screw aluminum bars into the floor as hard guides. You lay your first set of tiles along these guides, and let the thinset set, then take the guides up. Then you continue from there, checking and re-checking your alignment and making small adjustments as you go.

It's not like I didn't spend five minutes figuring out how to do it right the first time. This time I need to build a wall and build out the subfloor first because I need less deflection for the heavy appliances and counter tops.
 
2012-12-17 01:53:26 PM

TheOther: On 'How It's Made', I saw about the fiendishness of razor wire and how impenetrable it was...unless you have a couple of sheets of heavy plywood to bridge it.


farm5.staticflickr.com
 
2012-12-17 01:53:41 PM

Tuesdae: whyRpeoplesostupid: tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.


Agreed

I can't agree with that. I mean -- come on! It should be clear that zombies are no more real than, say, jackalopes!


First off, don't scare me with stories of the jackalopes.

The point I was trying to make is that I wonder what the trigger (no pun intended) for all of the recent shootings.
It ain't guns - we have had them for a long time.
It ain't loose gun control - seems that there has been an increase in gun legislation.

So what is it?
People talk about mental health, and I agree with that as an issue.

But what is it that puts a sick person over the edge? Fear of End of Days (not a bad Arnold movie), or of Zombies? (someone had a great link about how Zombies are actually increasing gun sales), Or of Mayan Apocalypse?

People claim that an organization like the NRA is partly responsible even though they are promoting gun safety, training, etc. but somehow other things that have contributed to our culture of violence - the media, gets a complete pass.
 
2012-12-17 01:53:52 PM

NightOwl2255: According to TMZ (yeah, yeah) she received $240K in spousal support in 2010 and it was set to increase every year. In 2012 she was to receive $289K. That's a lot of stocking up money.


She should of hired a professional prepper.
 
2012-12-17 01:54:12 PM

Colour_out_of_Space: [img836.imageshack.us image 305x660]


The citizen population IS the militia, dork. And it IS well regulated.
 
2012-12-17 01:54:53 PM

lucksi: And why did they write that he cold have done more damage if he hadn't been stopped? And further on they write that he shot himself. So he stopped himself or what?


Proof that an armed person in that school was the only one that saved the other kids. Clearly, more guns in schools would be the appropriate method to prevent future tragedies.
 
2012-12-17 01:55:02 PM

NightOwl2255: According to TMZ (yeah, yeah) she received $240K in spousal support in 2010 and it was set to increase every year. In 2012 she was to receive $289K. That's a lot of stocking up money.


Maybe she was stockpiling for when the alimony gravy train ran out?
 
2012-12-17 01:55:12 PM
How about a publicly accessible database of gun ownership as part of gun reform? Everyone should get to know who owns what. And if you are proud of your guns, you shouldn't have a problem with this. It's like keeping your muscle car in the driveway.
 
2012-12-17 01:55:33 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: internut scholar: Wolf_Blitzer: keep seeing derp like this. Tell me - what is a firearm a "tool" for, other than the infliction of death or the threat of death?

To protect your life against someone that is intent on taking it.

By inflicting death, or the threat of death, yes? Its a simple question.


It's a tool for that purpose. There is no other purpose. What is your point? What else would you like it to do?
 
2012-12-17 01:55:36 PM

JunkyJu: Preppers are smart people.
Everyone should have 2-4 weeks of supplies.
Natural disasters happen.

Everyone hopes no doomsday scenario happens in your lifetime, but to bury your head in the sand and act like it's an impossibility is just plain stupid.


Those that have an emergency supply on hand for natural disasters and the like are one animal. Those that are buying gold and years worth of dried food for the coming collapse when Obama turns the US over to the UN are a whole other animal.
 
2012-12-17 01:55:48 PM
Alex big money Jones isn't going to like that
 
2012-12-17 01:56:09 PM

dittybopper: Actually, yes it does:


No, it doesn't. A firearm locked in a cabinet is an operable firearm.

dittybopper: I was talking about the mother, you know, the one who was killed first, and thus couldn't report the guns as stolen? Or is your reading comprehension really that bad?


It's good enough to know that not only do you not bother to actually mention her by name, you don't even bother to make a generic reference via pronoun.

But, yea, my reading comprehension is the problem here, not your inability to communicate clearly.
 
GCD
2012-12-17 01:57:12 PM

JunkyJu: Preppers are smart people.
Everyone should have 2-4 weeks of supplies.
Natural disasters happen.

Everyone hopes no doomsday scenario happens in your lifetime, but to bury your head in the sand and act like it's an impossibility is just plain stupid.


I agree with you - natural disasters DO happen and will probably get worse before they get better...but why would I need an AR-15 rifle? Will shooting at the natural disaster somehow stop it?

Your average, run-of-the-mill "prepper" is smart. Take the Canadian Preppers Network for instance. They have a pretty normal list of things that the average person should do to prepare for a long period without power/adequate food sources/etc.

You'll notice that stockpiling weapons, gun, ammo isn't among their lists though.
 
2012-12-17 01:57:26 PM

Forbidden Doughnut: WizardofToast: I think 'end of the world' scenarios have really warped the brains of some people in society. And all this doomsday crap is driving people to do crazy things. I wouldn't be surprised if some people snap on December 21 thinking the world is ending when really it farking isn't. Everyone seems to think the world ends on Friday but has no farking clue how it will.

Since I live in a fairly Red and derpy part of my State (Oregon), it might be a good idea to stay inside...


I was just wondering yesterday whether these kinds of doomsday fatalistic beliefs contribute to people who snap going for broke and killing more than themselves. People who actually believe in the Mayan calendar stupidity, people who wish for the Rapture, and people who hope that society collapses so they get to live their ideal fantasy of living out of their underground bunker all arguably have something seriously wrong with their outlook. Or to be more broad, could the overwhelming infusion of negative news we hear about all the time be self reinforcing?
 
2012-12-17 01:58:07 PM

farkingnotworking: How about a publicly accessible database of gun ownership as part of gun reform? Everyone should get to know who owns what. And if you are proud of your guns, you shouldn't have a problem with this. It's like keeping your muscle car in the driveway.


That would be great for all the criminals to know where the guns are.
 
2012-12-17 01:58:24 PM

SubjectVerb: WHOM???? Seriously?


Yeah, deal with it buddy, it's the new normal.
 
2012-12-17 01:58:29 PM
Oh gawd. This is killing me and I haven't been able to check the whole thread to see if this has been brought up yet, but for the love of God:

LEARN TO USE THE WORD WHOM PROPERLY! Go back to 4th grade and review, submitter!!!! Whom is only used for the OBJECT of an action.

GRRRRR I don't know why this bugs me so much, but it does.

It doesn't bug me enough to make me want to become a paranoid survivalist though, so there's that.
 
2012-12-17 01:58:47 PM

JackieRabbit: the_end_is_rear: JackieRabbit: the_end_is_rear: Guns make a mans pecker hard and ready.
You Libs just cannot understand that.

Careful not to get any jizz on your gun while you're jacking...

I was hoping someone would get my trolling post and comment.
You did not disappoint.

You're welcome. We might as well have fun in what promises to be a week of endless gun wonking posts.


I so agree
 
2012-12-17 01:59:26 PM

dittybopper


I have a decent enough gun safe at home. Nothing fancy, but it's all metal, and it's got a lock on it, and 10 minutes with a sawsall and I could open it up without the key. I could probably pick the lock in about the same amount of time, but that includes improvising a rake and a tension lever out of paper clips. It would be quieter, though.


That sounds like a metal cabinet, not a safe.
 
2012-12-17 02:00:01 PM
she sounds a lot like a lot of the gun nutz on fark.
 
2012-12-17 02:00:09 PM

probesport:
Crazy raises crazy, I was in my career and just bought a house at 20 with little to no crazy. Teaching kids how to plink paper targets does not make them efficient killers anymore than teaching someone how to cut a steak makes them a coroner.


No shiat. I bought my first house at 24 and was well on my way to happy middle-classdom. There are still times when I think "If I did that my dad will kick my ass," and he has been dead for going on five years.
 
2012-12-17 02:00:11 PM

GCD: I agree with you - natural disasters DO happen and will probably get worse before they get better...but why would I need an AR-15 rifle? Will shooting at the natural disaster somehow stop it?


No, but it will stop the people that will come for your stockpile.
 
2012-12-17 02:00:37 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: birchman: HotWingConspiracy: There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.

You're not helping

Maybe fewer people would feel that way about gun owners if every simple little attempt at keeping guns out of the hands of lunatics like this kid, "the Joker" in Aurora and Seung-Hui Cho wasn't met by "responsible gun owners" unleashing a massive backlash of righteous indignation.

I mean, seriously. It's too much to ask that you should have to register a firearm, report it if its gets lost of stolen and keep it locked away so that it can't be taken and used against someone else?

To the "responsible gun owners" the answer to all three is not just "yes", but "YES AND IF YOU DISAGREE YOU HATE FREEDOM YOU STUPID COMMIE PINKO!!!111"

So, yea. Havin' a hard time finding these alleged "responsible gun owners" anywhere in this debate.


Then you're actively ignoring them. There have been plenty of gun owners express they would be fine with that in threads the last several days. However speaking in absolutes like "There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner" not only makes you look just as foolish, but adds nothing of value to the discussion. So from one liberal to another, just stop it.
 
2012-12-17 02:00:53 PM

The Larch: NRA reaction before: This tragedy happened because none of the victims owned a gun. If even one victim had been prepared, it would have saved a lot of lives.

NRA reaction now: ...


Think they found her on their membership rolls?

A contributor on msnbc(Randel?) this morning said with past incidents the focus has been on what was wrong with the shooter and this time it seems we're focusing on what is wrong with us.

I doubt the answer is "We don't have enough guns."
 
2012-12-17 02:00:58 PM

Girion47: spidermilk: BizarreMan: To those people calling his mother out on not having a gun safe. There is nothing to say she didn't have one. She may have had trigger locks on them. But a 20 year old who lives in the house with her, who has gone to the gun range with her, will most likely know the combination to the safe and where the trigger lock key is.

That is exactly what I am thinking. Not to say she did no wrong. If the thought "My son is becoming unstable and I'm worried about him." crossed her mind she should have packed up her guns and taken them somehere safe. IDK with a trusted friend in their safe, maybe sell them>

Really? her mind would jump to that conclusion? A gun is a tool, that if used responsibly is safe to be around. She taught him how to use and respect firearms. You're also assuming she didn't have them locked up, what if she did? Do you really think a 20 year old can't figure out how to access something? Look at all the "hacktivists" anon has. The internet makes it a lot easier to figure out how to crack a safe, or maybe he found her key hiding place, she was asleep, maybe he pulled the key from her purse. Should she have locked the key in another safe, and then locked that key elsewhere as well?


The thing is, her son was nuts. She knew he was nuts. Because of this, she should have secured the weapons in a fashion to prevent his ability to access them.

If gun safes can be cracked by a crazy 20-year-old, then she should have removed either the guns or the 20-year-old from her house.
 
2012-12-17 02:01:19 PM

internut scholar: Wolf_Blitzer: internut scholar: Wolf_Blitzer: keep seeing derp like this. Tell me - what is a firearm a "tool" for, other than the infliction of death or the threat of death?

To protect your life against someone that is intent on taking it.

By inflicting death, or the threat of death, yes? Its a simple question.

It's a tool for that purpose. There is no other purpose. What is your point? What else would you like it to do?


That is my only point: the sole purpose of a firearm is to inflict death. People who advocate walking around with one strapped to your hip should be judged accordingly.
 
2012-12-17 02:02:06 PM
lucky she had those guns to protect herself.
 
2012-12-17 02:02:10 PM

GCD: JunkyJu: Preppers are smart people.
Everyone should have 2-4 weeks of supplies.
Natural disasters happen.

Everyone hopes no doomsday scenario happens in your lifetime, but to bury your head in the sand and act like it's an impossibility is just plain stupid.

I agree with you - natural disasters DO happen and will probably get worse before they get better...but why would I need an AR-15 rifle? Will shooting at the natural disaster somehow stop it?

Your average, run-of-the-mill "prepper" is smart. Take the Canadian Preppers Network for instance. They have a pretty normal list of things that the average person should do to prepare for a long period without power/adequate food sources/etc.

You'll notice that stockpiling weapons, gun, ammo isn't among their lists though.


Because its a Canadian list.
 
2012-12-17 02:02:12 PM

occamswrist: Rent Party: Sleeping Monkey: She gets the fail award of the year for believing that having assault weapons in her home would make her safe. Now that entire community is paying for her ignorance.

I've been having this argument with my family for a few months now, but the answer to this isn't legislation restricting access to guns, but legislation placing 100% responsibility for controlling that gun on the person that legally owns it, and making the penalties for not controlling it absolutely draconian.

If your kid gets your gun and robs the 7-11, you're doing 10 years mandatory minimum. If your kid gets your guns and shoots up an elementary school, you're doing life, no parole.

Gun control should start with gun owners, and positive control of the weapon needs to be the primary responsibility that comes along with it. If this lady knew she could be doing hard prison time if her guns got out of her control, she might have taken better care of them and kept them out of the hands of her nutter kid.

Guns belong on your person, or locked up tight. Not in your nightstand or under your bed.

What if someone steals your car and uses it to commit a crime?


If someone could use my car to murder 26 little kids, you might have a point.

But they can't, and you don't.
 
2012-12-17 02:02:21 PM

NightOwl2255: According to TMZ (yeah, yeah) she received $240K in spousal support in 2010 and it was set to increase every year. In 2012 she was to receive $289K. That's a lot of stocking up money.


Interesting.
People in a thread yesterday were arguing that under 0bamacare, these type of things would be prevented.

Seems she had more than enough money to get mental health care help for her son.
 
GCD
2012-12-17 02:02:22 PM

NightOwl2255: GCD: I agree with you - natural disasters DO happen and will probably get worse before they get better...but why would I need an AR-15 rifle? Will shooting at the natural disaster somehow stop it?

No, but it will stop the people that will come for your stockpile.


Keeping your mouth shut about your stash of supplies will also help keep people from coming from your stockpile.
 
2012-12-17 02:02:22 PM

Spare Me: Colour_out_of_Space: [img836.imageshack.us image 305x660]

The citizen population IS the militia, dork. And it IS well regulated.


Bullshiat. Words have meaning, ie:

mi·li·tia [mi-lish-uh]
noun
1. a body of citizens enrolled for military service, and called out periodically for drill but serving full time only in emergencies.
2. a body of citizen soldiers as distinguished from professional soldiers.
3. all able-bodied males considered by law eligible for military service.
4. a body of citizens organized in a paramilitary group and typically regarding themselves as defenders of individual rights against the presumed interference of the federal government.
 
2012-12-17 02:02:29 PM

Three-Fifty: Oh gawd. This is killing me and I haven't been able to check the whole thread to see if this has been brought up yet, but for the love of God:

LEARN TO USE THE WORD WHOM PROPERLY! Go back to 4th grade and review, submitter!!!! Whom is only used for the OBJECT of an action.

GRRRRR I don't know why this bugs me so much, but it does.

It doesn't bug me enough to make me want to become a paranoid survivalist though, so there's that.


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-17 02:02:45 PM

Colour_out_of_Space: [img836.imageshack.us image 305x660]



i46.tinypic.com 

Well regulated, as is properly functioning i.e. a citizenry proficient in the use of arms.
 
2012-12-17 02:02:53 PM
bluefoxicy: TheOther: bluefoxicy: TheOther: Do you have a meth lab in your basement?

No, I have bags of thinset and 14 boxes of porcelain tile. And some tools.

'That tile is crooked.'
"If I try to straighten it, it will throw off the rest of the row and I'll have to start all over."
'I said we should pay a pro to do this.'
"Your brother isn't a pro at anything but twitching and stealing my beer."
'See, we should have built the meth lab instead.'

"..."

sigh... you lay out the room first, then decide what you need to cut, how it's going to lay out, etc. You put the tiles down, place the rubber spacers between them, measure it out that way. When you're done that, you mark where they go, pick a starting point. Then you take the tile up, chalk line your guides, and screw aluminum bars into the floor as hard guides. You lay your first set of tiles along these guides, and let the thinset set, then take the guides up. Then you continue from there, checking and re-checking your alignment and making small adjustments as you go.

It's not like I didn't spend five minutes figuring out how to do it right the first time. This time I need to build a wall and build out the subfloor first because I need less deflection for the heavy appliances and counter tops.


I failed first grade art. I couldn't 'lay out the room' correctly with lasers and Pythagoras checking my work. I envy your skill.
 
2012-12-17 02:03:18 PM

LabGrrl: Just for a fact check on statements up thread (emphasis mine) (cdc 2009 stats):

Motor vehicle traffic deaths

Number of deaths: 34,485
Deaths per 100,000 population: 11.2

All firearm deaths

Number of deaths: 31,347
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.2

By no means at all is that "far more deaths" from cars. Source. It is my understanding the 2012 stats are even tighter, and gun deaths are trending up and car deaths are trending down.


What were car deaths before seatbelt and airbag laws and how many more people own cars now?
 
2012-12-17 02:03:27 PM
The groups responsible for these fruit loops walking around are the ACLU and the courts. They went through a series of suits in the 70s and 80s saying you couldn't just lock up mentally ill people without proving that they were a threat to themselves or others. So we get Cheong, Loughner, Side Show Bob and now this fruit loop walking free and committing mass murders when they should have all been bouncing off the walls in rubber rooms somewhere.

If the cops had dropped by the Lanza's house Friday morning there was nothing they could have done prior to him shooting his mom. We need to reverse all those court decisions by legislation not subject to judicial review as provided for in the constitution to cut the judges out of the loop and put the inmates back in the asylums. 

www.politickernj.com
 
2012-12-17 02:03:33 PM

Carn: Forbidden Doughnut: WizardofToast: I think 'end of the world' scenarios have really warped the brains of some people in society. And all this doomsday crap is driving people to do crazy things. I wouldn't be surprised if some people snap on December 21 thinking the world is ending when really it farking isn't. Everyone seems to think the world ends on Friday but has no farking clue how it will.

Since I live in a fairly Red and derpy part of my State (Oregon), it might be a good idea to stay inside...

I was just wondering yesterday whether these kinds of doomsday fatalistic beliefs contribute to people who snap going for broke and killing more than themselves. People who actually believe in the Mayan calendar stupidity, people who wish for the Rapture, and people who hope that society collapses so they get to live their ideal fantasy of living out of their underground bunker all arguably have something seriously wrong with their outlook. Or to be more broad, could the overwhelming infusion of negative news we hear about all the time be self reinforcing?


I agree. These are the same people who, if given the chance to live at any time in human existence, actually pick the past. Fools...
 
2012-12-17 02:03:44 PM

lucksi: Huh, I haven't followed the story closely and some things about the article were really confusing.

He shot his mother at her/their home and then got the guns and then went to the school to shoot up a random classroom?

That is farked up.

And why did they write that he cold have done more damage if he hadn't been stopped? And further on they write that he shot himself. So he stopped himself or what?


My current understanding is he didn't shoot up a random classroom, he shot up HER classroom...although, now that I think about it, was she out sick that day? Not sure on the timing angle. Anyway, afaik, the psychological angle appears to be "she was a teacher, she loved students more than me, I'll show her".

Now, the whole "he was stopped" thing in the article was poorly written and logically weak, to boot.
He shot himself...apparently, when the cops showed up...but he stopped himself, in the final analysis.
Basically, it's police and reporters trying to make the best of a bad situation.
Law enforcement did SOMETHING, but it's cold comfort, frankly.
I'm not saying they could have done better, mind you. Response time sounds decent once they got the call, from what I've read.
 
2012-12-17 02:03:49 PM

NightOwl2255: GCD: I agree with you - natural disasters DO happen and will probably get worse before they get better...but why would I need an AR-15 rifle? Will shooting at the natural disaster somehow stop it?

No, but it will stop the people that will come for your stockpile.


What makes you so certain anyone is going to come for your stockpile? People needing food will probably be lined up at the nearest Red Cross station or National Guard post, where they're handing it out for free. If things honestly get so bad that neither of those exists, I guarantee you won't be around to need your cans of beans, gun or not.
 
2012-12-17 02:04:10 PM

Snarfangel: How many people does the average rolling pin murderer take out? What a ridiculously stupid argument.

Rolling pin murderers don't kill for sport, they just knead the dough.


you are a genius!
 
GCD
2012-12-17 02:04:32 PM

manitobamadman: GCD: JunkyJu: Preppers are smart people.
Everyone should have 2-4 weeks of supplies.
Natural disasters happen.

Everyone hopes no doomsday scenario happens in your lifetime, but to bury your head in the sand and act like it's an impossibility is just plain stupid.

I agree with you - natural disasters DO happen and will probably get worse before they get better...but why would I need an AR-15 rifle? Will shooting at the natural disaster somehow stop it?

Your average, run-of-the-mill "prepper" is smart. Take the Canadian Preppers Network for instance. They have a pretty normal list of things that the average person should do to prepare for a long period without power/adequate food sources/etc.

You'll notice that stockpiling weapons, gun, ammo isn't among their lists though.

Because its a Canadian list.


American Preppers Network
 
2012-12-17 02:04:47 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: internut scholar: Wolf_Blitzer: internut scholar: Wolf_Blitzer: keep seeing derp like this. Tell me - what is a firearm a "tool" for, other than the infliction of death or the threat of death?

To protect your life against someone that is intent on taking it.

By inflicting death, or the threat of death, yes? Its a simple question.

It's a tool for that purpose. There is no other purpose. What is your point? What else would you like it to do?

That is my only point: the sole purpose of a firearm is to inflict death. People who advocate walking around with one strapped to your hip should be judged accordingly.


But gun nuts have been telling me that I can use guns to shoot stuff that's not alive and that makes them exactly the same as cars and knives.
 
2012-12-17 02:05:06 PM

birchman: owever speaking in absolutes like "There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner"


I didn't say it, I merely pointed out that I can see why the person who said it might honestly believe it's true.

Also, remind me again why some basic laws like . Oh. Right. Because there's a huge lobbying organization consisting of millions of "responsible gun owners" devoted to kneejerk opposition to every single bill attempting to place any level of responsibility on gun owners.

Yea.... funny that...

birchman: So from one liberal to another, just stop it.


No. I'm done pretending that "just because I say so" is a valid argument and that the people who say it deserve to be treated like anything other than spoiled children. Gun owners, smokers, conservatives. When they stop lying through their miserable, stained, inbred teeth I'll stop treating them like dirty, inbred liars.
 
2012-12-17 02:05:24 PM
new.llhms.org
There are trains of these crossing intersections in every major city in the USA.
Confiscate all cars now!

/I'd be fine w/ it.
 
2012-12-17 02:05:36 PM

PunGent: My current understanding is he didn't shoot up a random classroom, he shot up HER classroom...although, now that I think about it, was she out sick that day? Not sure on the timing angle. Anyway, afaik, the psychological angle appears to be "she was a teacher, she loved students more than me, I'll show her".


She wasn't a teacher, no one knows (yet) why he went to the school.
 
2012-12-17 02:05:45 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: That is my only point: the sole purpose of a firearm is to inflict death


Sole? Not main? Or intended? But, sole?

sole 2 (sl)
adj.
1. Being the only one: the sole survivor of the crash.
 
2012-12-17 02:06:45 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost:
Guns belong on your person, or locked up tight. Not in your nightstand or under your bed.

That seems... reasonable. 


I prefer "Kind of douchey, but completely accurate." :)
 
2012-12-17 02:07:15 PM

meatsack_01: [causes-prod.caudn.com image 640x636]


Just a guess here, but I for one suspect that very few parents would send their kids to a school that advertises its staff as being "trained and heavily armed."
 
2012-12-17 02:07:28 PM
Yes, mental illness runs in families.
 
2012-12-17 02:07:43 PM
 
2012-12-17 02:07:50 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: That is my only point: the sole purpose of a firearm is to inflict death. People who advocate walking around with one strapped to your hip should be judged accordingly


Like the police?


What tool would you prefer if you had the unfortunate chance that someone was intent on taking your life?
 
2012-12-17 02:08:02 PM

coco ebert: Rich white people have lost their gotdamn minds!


do you troll like this in every thread, or just the ones relating to mass shootings?
 
2012-12-17 02:08:17 PM

manitobamadman: GCD: JunkyJu: Preppers are smart people.
Everyone should have 2-4 weeks of supplies.
Natural disasters happen.

Everyone hopes no doomsday scenario happens in your lifetime, but to bury your head in the sand and act like it's an impossibility is just plain stupid.

I agree with you - natural disasters DO happen and will probably get worse before they get better...but why would I need an AR-15 rifle? Will shooting at the natural disaster somehow stop it?

Your average, run-of-the-mill "prepper" is smart. Take the Canadian Preppers Network for instance. They have a pretty normal list of things that the average person should do to prepare for a long period without power/adequate food sources/etc.

You'll notice that stockpiling weapons, gun, ammo isn't among their lists though.

Because its a Canadian list.


We have a lot of guns in Canada. What's your point?
 
2012-12-17 02:08:32 PM
Okay ,so they were out of fashion. Still no reason for all the hating on Preppies
osneaker.com
 
2012-12-17 02:08:59 PM
Jamie Foxx, one of the industry's biggest stars, said Saturday as he promoted Quentin Tarantino's upcoming ultra-violent ,spaghetti Western-style film about slavery, "Django Unchained," that actors can't ignore the fact that movie violence can influence people.

Pops like a gun!

I LOVE it when Hollywood comes out against guns, while promoting a Tarantino flick!
 
2012-12-17 02:09:18 PM
Inaccurate news is inaccurate. She was a sharp-shooter who had guns to fire at the range for sport. She wasn't a twisted gun-stocking end-of-the-world nut-job like this article reports. But hey, if your job requires article clicks, this author knows what they're doing.
 
2012-12-17 02:10:07 PM

Heinrich von Eckardt: Colour_out_of_Space: [img836.imageshack.us image 305x660]


[i46.tinypic.com image 305x164] 

Well regulated, as is properly functioning i.e. a citizenry proficient in the use of arms.


yeah, it isn't as if there are gun laws or anything.

that guy in CT was able to go to a store and just pick up whatever he wanted, didn't need a background check or have to wait or anything....oh wait.

Chicago has no regulations about guns, nor DC...oh wait....
 
2012-12-17 02:10:13 PM
Not that I doubt it, but there's been so much bullshiat put out I don't believe anything I hear about it anymore.
 
2012-12-17 02:10:27 PM

BeezyBates: Inaccurate news is inaccurate. She was a sharp-shooter who had guns to fire at the range for sport. She wasn't a twisted gun-stocking end-of-the-world nut-job like this article reports. But hey, if your job requires article clicks, this author knows what they're doing.

 

Really? What's YOUR source for saying this? You know them or something?
 
2012-12-17 02:10:36 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: By inflicting death, or the threat of death, yes? Its a simple question


There is no power to protect. There is the power to create and destroy. Destruction is a hell of a lot easier.

If you put up an impenetrable shield, people will pick at it until they find a way to subvert it. If that shield sends back a fatal pulse of energy when agitated, people will be less apt to pick at it, and much less likely to actually ever defeat it.

What can a man do when threatened by violence except employ the threat or execution of greater, more effective violence? You grab your wife and child and run into your safe room. The criminal, knowing police will never come (or if they do, they'll come asking politely for surrender and never employ the use of force), takes a high-temperature welding torch to your 18 inch steel door. 36 hours later he's cut through most of it, and a huge chunk falls away. He now strides in, rapes your 15 year old and your wife in front of you, and then uses the torch to melt your head off.

The purpose of all protections is to repel invaders with force or delay invaders until the force arrives.
 
2012-12-17 02:10:44 PM
So it's lack of mental health care, teaparty derp and Obama's fault? Thank Jebus it's not the guns!
 
2012-12-17 02:11:42 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: No. I'm done pretending that "just because I say so" is a valid argument and that the people who say it deserve to be treated like anything other than spoiled children. Gun owners, smokers, conservatives. When they stop lying through their miserable, stained, inbred teeth I'll stop treating them like dirty, inbred liars.


It's a valid conversation to have, but the way you're trying to have it isn't productive.
 
2012-12-17 02:11:43 PM

a61sun: Jamie Foxx, one of the industry's biggest stars, said Saturday as he promoted Quentin Tarantino's upcoming ultra-violent ,spaghetti Western-style film about slavery, "Django Unchained," that actors can't ignore the fact that movie violence can influence people.

Pops like a gun!

I LOVE it when Hollywood comes out against guns, while promoting a Tarantino flick!



OMFG
 
2012-12-17 02:11:46 PM

WhippingBoy: manitobamadman: GCD: JunkyJu: Preppers are smart people.
Everyone should have 2-4 weeks of supplies.
Natural disasters happen.

Everyone hopes no doomsday scenario happens in your lifetime, but to bury your head in the sand and act like it's an impossibility is just plain stupid.

I agree with you - natural disasters DO happen and will probably get worse before they get better...but why would I need an AR-15 rifle? Will shooting at the natural disaster somehow stop it?

Your average, run-of-the-mill "prepper" is smart. Take the Canadian Preppers Network for instance. They have a pretty normal list of things that the average person should do to prepare for a long period without power/adequate food sources/etc.

You'll notice that stockpiling weapons, gun, ammo isn't among their lists though.

Because its a Canadian list.

We have a lot of guns in Canada. What's your point?


Exactly what you said, we have lots of guns in Canada, don't need to put them on the list, it's kinda a given ... ;)
 
2012-12-17 02:11:48 PM

KungFuJunkie: LabGrrl: Just for a fact check on statements up thread (emphasis mine) (cdc 2009 stats):

Motor vehicle traffic deaths

Number of deaths: 34,485
Deaths per 100,000 population: 11.2

All firearm deaths

Number of deaths: 31,347
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.2

By no means at all is that "far more deaths" from cars. Source. It is my understanding the 2012 stats are even tighter, and gun deaths are trending up and car deaths are trending down.

What were car deaths before seatbelt and airbag laws and how many more people own cars now?


lots of things beyond seat belts and airbags have made cars safer. You'd have to track lots of things.

I do know that nobody has ever been shot by a car.
 
2012-12-17 02:12:10 PM

internut scholar: Wolf_Blitzer: That is my only point: the sole purpose of a firearm is to inflict death. People who advocate walking around with one strapped to your hip should be judged accordingly

Like the police?


What tool would you prefer if you had the unfortunate chance that someone was intent on taking your life?


I would fly a 747 into their building.
 
2012-12-17 02:12:58 PM

dexaline: Utter fail, Fark.

Subby should be school massacred for his idiotic use of "whom" and the rest of you should feel really bad about not making him feel really bad about it.


I agree completely. He massacred the English language.
 
2012-12-17 02:13:18 PM

Spare Me: Colour_out_of_Space: [img836.imageshack.us image 305x660]

The citizen population IS the militia, dork. And it IS well regulated.


Actually no, the US and and states define who the militia is they have done so twice. So they can easily define who they are again and restrict guns.
 
2012-12-17 02:13:26 PM

internut scholar: Wolf_Blitzer: That is my only point: the sole purpose of a firearm is to inflict death. People who advocate walking around with one strapped to your hip should be judged accordingly

Like the police?


What tool would you prefer if you had the unfortunate chance that someone was intent on taking your life?


Policemen are trained in the use of their firearms, and even at that your average beat cop can barely be trusted to hit a cow at ten paces with his service weapon. If you're not at the range 3-4 times a month with it, a handgun is likely to cause more problems than it solves.

Statistically, you or I are far more likely to run into someone having a heart attack than trying to kill us. Do you carry a portable defibrillator?
 
2012-12-17 02:13:27 PM

Three-Fifty: Oh gawd. This is killing me and I haven't been able to check the whole thread to see if this has been brought up yet, but for the love of God:

LEARN TO USE THE WORD WHOM PROPERLY! Go back to 4th grade and review, submitter!!!! Whom is only used for the OBJECT of an action.

GRRRRR I don't know why this bugs me so much, but it does.

It doesn't bug me enough to make me want to become a paranoid survivalist though, so there's that.


It probably bothers you for the same reason it bothers me: it's some schmuck trying to sound smarter than they are. I'd put it up there with "between you and I" for the easiest way to spot a pseudo-intellectual idiot.
 
2012-12-17 02:13:46 PM
Are you farking kidding me???? Multiple 30 round clips and 100's of rounds is an afternoon (very short one) at the shooting range...
 
2012-12-17 02:14:06 PM

Nietzsche Keen: So it's lack of mental health care, teaparty derp and Obama's fault? Thank Jebus it's not the guns!


Maybe we'll get single payer health care after all.
 
2012-12-17 02:14:13 PM

GCD: JunkyJu: Preppers are smart people.
Everyone should have 2-4 weeks of supplies.
Natural disasters happen.

Everyone hopes no doomsday scenario happens in your lifetime, but to bury your head in the sand and act like it's an impossibility is just plain stupid.

I agree with you - natural disasters DO happen and will probably get worse before they get better...but why would I need an AR-15 rifle? Will shooting at the natural disaster somehow stop it?

Your average, run-of-the-mill "prepper" is smart. Take the Canadian Preppers Network for instance. They have a pretty normal list of things that the average person should do to prepare for a long period without power/adequate food sources/etc.

You'll notice that stockpiling weapons, gun, ammo isn't among their lists though.


Don't know if it's still the case, but back when I was flying a light plane through Canada up into Alaska, we were REQUIRED to bring a rifle, ammo, survival gear, and x days for food per person on board.

As others have said, there's common sense prepping, and then there's over-the-top crazy.
 
2012-12-17 02:14:36 PM

Mentat: I also heard that he was wearing a lot of pouches, which means we need to ban Rob Liefeld.


Came for this. Glad to see.

FWIW, once I read the word "pouches", "Liefeld" was my first thought, followed quickly by "Cable", "Deadpool", and" Cyclop's stupid bandoleer thing from Lee's era".
 
2012-12-17 02:15:12 PM

This text is now purple: What the hell is your door frame made from?


Uh... steel? It took me a good 2 minutes to drill through the first sheet with a 535W (like 0.8HP) DeWalt drill. I wanted to install a fish eye. And yes, that was with oil (bits cut metal much faster with oil, somehow; there are a lot of reasons you use oil to drill metal, but if you've ever tried dry you've probably noticed it's a lot slower).

The inside is apparently a high-density plastic foam, but that went easy enough.
 
2012-12-17 02:15:20 PM
Wolf_Blitzer: internut scholar: Wolf_Blitzer: That is my only point: the sole purpose of a firearm is to inflict death. People who advocate walking around with one strapped to your hip should be judged accordingly

Like the police?


What tool would you prefer if you had the unfortunate chance that someone was intent on taking your life?

Policemen are trained in the use of their firearms, and even at that your average beat cop can barely be trusted to hit a cow at ten paces with his service weapon. If you're not at the range 3-4 times a month with it, a handgun is likely to cause more problems than it solves.

Statistically, you or I are far more likely to run into someone having a heart attack than trying to kill us. Do you carry a portable defibrillator?


Does a taser count?
 
2012-12-17 02:15:29 PM
What is the color of "unsurprised"? Because that's what you can color me.

I knew most of these doomsday survivalists were dangerous idiots for some reason.

And no, I'm not talking about people who keep a dozen gallons of water and some soup and granola bars on hand for when the power goes out.
 
2012-12-17 02:15:43 PM

WizardofToast: HotWingConspiracy: There is no such thing as a responsible gun owner.

I'm sure there are people that legally purchase their weapons, know every rule about not showing off with it, treating it like a bullet is in the chamber and lock them away in a safe place where the kids can't find them if they even tried or come across it on accident.

Unfortunately, some people aren't responsible and that has led to unnecessary harm.


Right. But the thing is you don't know ahead of time who is going to be responsible and who is not, someone who is law abiding today might not be tomorrow, and someone who is outwardly sane might go farking nuts next week.

Since you don't know in advance who will be responsible with guns, gun control is necessary.
 
2012-12-17 02:15:49 PM

Zukipilot: Are you farking kidding me???? Multiple 30 round clips and 100's of rounds is an afternoon (very short one) at the shooting range...


If there was a point you were trying to make, you may want to take another swing at it.
 
2012-12-17 02:15:50 PM
Who says she was paranoid?

Got a diagnosis from medical doctor? Or is subby just making stuff up?
 
2012-12-17 02:16:08 PM

NightOwl2255: GCD: I agree with you - natural disasters DO happen and will probably get worse before they get better...but why would I need an AR-15 rifle? Will shooting at the natural disaster somehow stop it?

No, but it will stop the people that will come for your stockpile.


i.chzbgr.com
 
2012-12-17 02:16:24 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: PunGent: My current understanding is he didn't shoot up a random classroom, he shot up HER classroom...although, now that I think about it, was she out sick that day? Not sure on the timing angle. Anyway, afaik, the psychological angle appears to be "she was a teacher, she loved students more than me, I'll show her".

She wasn't a teacher, no one knows (yet) why he went to the school.


Cuz he was batshiat insane?
 
2012-12-17 02:16:41 PM

bluefoxicy: What can a man do when threatened by violence except employ the threat or execution of greater, more effective violence? You grab your wife and child and run into your safe room. The criminal, knowing police will never come (or if they do, they'll come asking politely for surrender and never employ the use of force), takes a high-temperature welding torch to your 18 inch steel door. 36 hours later he's cut through most of it, and a huge chunk falls away. He now strides in, rapes your 15 year old and your wife in front of you, and then uses the torch to melt your head off.


Or, you could call the police, who will arrest him and subject him to trial by a jury of his peers. Like a civilized human being.

If you keep a firearm in your house, its statistically most likely use is against you, either by yourself, by a family member, or by someone breaking in and taking it from you. Everything else is Red Dawn fantasizing.
 
2012-12-17 02:16:41 PM
Oh, frame. Never mind. Frame is wood, and the screws sink deep and have good bite; the dead bolt is a nice, deep deadbolt set securely and you have to take out a lot of wood to rip that part of the door out.

It also helps to have secondary deadbolts that go into the floor.
 
2012-12-17 02:17:13 PM

Colour_out_of_Space: [img836.imageshack.us image 305x660]


Ahem:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/311
 
2012-12-17 02:17:20 PM

Charles Martel: Who says she was paranoid?

Got a diagnosis from medical doctor? Or is subby just making stuff up?


I would say that she was the definition of paranoid.
 
2012-12-17 02:17:23 PM

chuckufarlie: KungFuJunkie: LabGrrl: Just for a fact check on statements up thread (emphasis mine) (cdc 2009 stats):

Motor vehicle traffic deaths

Number of deaths: 34,485
Deaths per 100,000 population: 11.2

All firearm deaths

Number of deaths: 31,347
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.2

By no means at all is that "far more deaths" from cars. Source. It is my understanding the 2012 stats are even tighter, and gun deaths are trending up and car deaths are trending down.

What were car deaths before seatbelt and airbag laws and how many more people own cars now?

lots of things beyond seat belts and airbags have made cars safer. You'd have to track lots of things.

I do know that nobody has ever been shot by a car.


It's almost as if cars are being made safer and guns more lethal.
 
2012-12-17 02:17:31 PM

Zukipilot: Are you farking kidding me???? Multiple 30 round clips and 100's of rounds is an afternoon (very short one) at the shooting range...


20 dead kids is a small price to pay so you don't have to reload as frequently at the range.
 
2012-12-17 02:18:18 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Policemen are trained in the use of their firearms, and even at that your average beat cop can barely be trusted to hit a cow at ten paces with his service weapon. If you're not at the range 3-4 times a month with it, a handgun is likely to cause more problems than it solves.

Statistically, you or I are far more likely to run into someone having a heart attack than trying to kill us. Do you carry a portable defibrillator?


You didn't answer my question. Someone wants to end your life, do you want a firearm or a defibrillator? What tool do you want?
 
2012-12-17 02:18:21 PM
ok, i am from Canada, so granted my view on guns and prepping is different than the majority of the States. We just do it, not have a fetish for it....
My husband and i have 4 guns - a 22, a larger caliber rifle, and two shotguns. they are locked in a gun safe, with a separate ammo safe for storage.
we store food, first aid supplies, and water... enough for a few months i guess, never really figured it out.. but the mean temperature at my place for 6 months is - 15 celcius.. (just about 10 hours south of the Arctic circle here) so it makes sense to have a bunch of extra stuff, and lots of firewood.

i also have a step-son that has been diagnosed with personality disorder, who is difficult to fathom as he is fairly uncommunicative, has extremely low empathy levels, and a severely inappropriate sense of humour... his nickname while working on the rigs was "Columbine"

this weekend we went out and bought 4 new trigger and or cable lock devices. We didn't tell him, and won't be keeping the keys in any known area in the house.. just in case...
 
2012-12-17 02:18:22 PM

Smoky Dragon Dish: OrangeSnapper: Launch Code: [i1253.photobucket.com image 201x251]
It takes a human to commit the act. Do you blame the alcohol or the car for a drunk driving death? Of course the super libtard will reflect on soldiers using guns in battle. Are you then calling the people that defend us murderers?
Wake up leftys, evil people do evil things! Don't blame the tool for the destruction.

Firearm homicides in the US: 11,493
All other homicides in the US: 5,306

Guns are used to murder more than twice as many people in the US as all other weapons combined.
Source: CDC, 2009 statistics

I'm not saying that you're wrong, but the 11,493 includes all homicides, such as people shot by police, people who shoot themselves, etc.


actually there are approximately 30,000 gun deaths in the US each year... about 17,000 of those are suicide.
 
2012-12-17 02:18:37 PM

GCD: Keeping your mouth shut about your stash of supplies will also help keep people from coming from your stockpile.


There was a movie awhile back, The Trigger Effect. It's about how fast society would fall apart in the face of a crisis, in this case a black out. Yes, it's a movie. But, I tend to believe that my law-abiding neighbor is about two weeks of watching his kids starve away from being a stone-cold killer.
 
2012-12-17 02:18:40 PM

Vectron: The state news agency in China, the official voice of the government, has called for the United States to quickly adopt stricter gun controls in the aftermath of the shooting rampage in Connecticut that left 28 people dead, including 20 schoolchildren.

Red Dawn, anyone?


The first one with the Cubans, or the second one with the North Koreans?
I prefer the Cubans. I figure a few of them will be holding cigars.
 
2012-12-17 02:19:02 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: bluefoxicy: What can a man do when threatened by violence except employ the threat or execution of greater, more effective violence? You grab your wife and child and run into your safe room. The criminal, knowing police will never come (or if they do, they'll come asking politely for surrender and never employ the use of force), takes a high-temperature welding torch to your 18 inch steel door. 36 hours later he's cut through most of it, and a huge chunk falls away. He now strides in, rapes your 15 year old and your wife in front of you, and then uses the torch to melt your head off.

Or, you could call the police, who will arrest him and subject him to trial by a jury of his peers. Like a civilized human being.

If you keep a firearm in your house, its statistically most likely use is against you, either by yourself, by a family member, or by someone breaking in and taking it from you. Everything else is Red Dawn fantasizing.


just last week -
MERCER, Pa.-A 7-year-old boy had been buckling himself into his safety seat in the back of his father's truck when he was shot to death after a handgun accidentally went off as his father got in the front seat, police said Sunday.
Joseph V. Loughrey, 44, told police he had been trying to sell the guns Saturday at Twigs Reloading Den in East Lackawannock Township, 60 miles north of Pittsburgh. He unloaded the magazine at home, but didn't realize a bullet was still in the chamber, Lt. Eric Hermick said. His son, Craig Allen Loughrey, was shot in the chest and died at the scene.
 
2012-12-17 02:19:24 PM
"He had a fourth weapon in the trunk of the black Honda he drove to the school. The car belonged to his mother."

BAN ALL HONDAS NOW.
 
2012-12-17 02:20:17 PM

GrizzlyPouch: Did anybody else point out that the "article" is from a website that pays its "reporters" by the amount of traffic the story generates?

Oh yeah those daily mail links. I'm sure it's legit


The original "information" is from an ex-sister in law. While the father's family and the one son may be blameless, their participation may have been critical to the collapse of the family in the first place.

The ex-husband has a multi-million dollar career to protect. He was paying tons of alimony to the deceased woman. It's in his best interest that she be dead, and his best interest that she be trash talked about once she's dead. The asshole hadn't talked to his own son for two years.

Anybody that listened to the ex-sister in law without saying "shut up you lying coont" shouldn't be given any credibility. Yet, here you crowd of droolers are....
 
2012-12-17 02:21:45 PM

internut scholar: Wolf_Blitzer: Policemen are trained in the use of their firearms, and even at that your average beat cop can barely be trusted to hit a cow at ten paces with his service weapon. If you're not at the range 3-4 times a month with it, a handgun is likely to cause more problems than it solves.

Statistically, you or I are far more likely to run into someone having a heart attack than trying to kill us. Do you carry a portable defibrillator?

You didn't answer my question. Someone wants to end your life, do you want a firearm or a defibrillator? What tool do you want?


It would be pretty cool to stop an assailant with a defibrillator but you'd have to be sure you weren't touching them.
 
2012-12-17 02:21:49 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: If you keep a firearm in your house, its statistically most likely use is against you, either by yourself, by a family member, or by someone breaking in and taking it from you.

 

i48.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-17 02:22:04 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Or, you could call the police, who will arrest him and subject him to trial by a jury of his peers. Like a civilized human being


Yes and in my scenario, I suggested that either police wouldn't come or they would come without bearing violence. You know, without the threat of injury or death.

That was the point: Protection is the threat of death. The police come and threaten to shoot these people to death if they don't come along quietly. A man carries a gun "for protection" because a gun is an instrument of death and if you try to hurt him he will kill you so maybe you shouldn't do that.
 
2012-12-17 02:22:06 PM

internut scholar: Wolf_Blitzer: Policemen are trained in the use of their firearms, and even at that your average beat cop can barely be trusted to hit a cow at ten paces with his service weapon. If you're not at the range 3-4 times a month with it, a handgun is likely to cause more problems than it solves.

Statistically, you or I are far more likely to run into someone having a heart attack than trying to kill us. Do you carry a portable defibrillator?

You didn't answer my question. Someone wants to end your life, do you want a firearm or a defibrillator? What tool do you want?


Are those the only two choices? Because my actual choice is a trained police force, democratically answerable to me and my fellow citizens. This isn't the Wild West anymore.
 
2012-12-17 02:23:02 PM

Spare Me: Colour_out_of_Space: [img836.imageshack.us image 305x660]

The citizen population IS the militia, dork.


No, it's not.

Yes, I understand that the S. Ct. held in 2008 that the militia clause of the 2nd Amendment was not a limitation but a descriptor, but I'm skeptical of such a holding given that 200+ years passed between that "understanding" and the ratification of the Constitution. Especially when Scalia led the way - that guy, and a couple of his cohorts, are really "out there" on jurisprudence, to say the least. I could easily see a different Court coming to a different result.

I also happen to believe Heller was decided wrongly on its face anyway.
 
2012-12-17 02:23:39 PM

BeezyBates: Inaccurate news is inaccurate. She was a sharp-shooter who had guns to fire at the range for sport. She wasn't a twisted gun-stocking end-of-the-world nut-job like this article reports. But hey, if your job requires article clicks, this author knows what they're doing.


It's true that we don't know yet, but if your description of her is accurate, why didn't she leave her guns in the care of the people who owned the range where they'd have been out of the reach of her mentally ill kid?
 
2012-12-17 02:23:41 PM

bluefoxicy: Wolf_Blitzer: Or, you could call the police, who will arrest him and subject him to trial by a jury of his peers. Like a civilized human being

Yes and in my scenario, I suggested that either police wouldn't come or they would come without bearing violence. You know, without the threat of injury or death.

That was the point: Protection is the threat of death. The police come and threaten to shoot these people to death if they don't come along quietly. A man carries a gun "for protection" because a gun is an instrument of death and if you try to hurt him he will kill you so maybe you shouldn't do that.


And as I've pointed out, you're far more likely to save your own life carrying a defibrillator or other medical supplies than a gun. Are you advocating that, or do you just dream of killing someone?
 
2012-12-17 02:25:00 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Wolf_Blitzer: If you keep a firearm in your house, its statistically most likely use is against you, either by yourself, by a family member, or by someone breaking in and taking it from you. 

[i48.tinypic.com image 500x271]


37% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
 
2012-12-17 02:25:06 PM
Hopefully all this stupid dies down after the 21st. I think that's the last big "doomsday" prediction. People were talking about that while prepping for Y2K. After that, maybe, the history channel and others will stop scaring the crap out of unstable people for a few extra viewers. If the world ends (which it won't), it will probably be from ww3 or something anyways, which won't exactly sneak up on us, like the armageddon snake-oils salesman seem to insist the end of the world will do.
 
2012-12-17 02:25:31 PM

Trivia Jockey: Yes, I understand that the S. Ct. held in 2008 that the militia clause of the 2nd Amendment was not a limitation but a descriptor, but I'm skeptical of such a holding given that 200+ years passed between that "understanding" and the ratification of the Constitution. Especially when Scalia led the way - that guy, and a couple of his cohorts, are really "out there" on jurisprudence, to say the least. I could easily see a different Court coming to a different result.


Are you saying that the Constitution provides that the citizenry IS the militia; but since it doesn't say so explicitly and it's now convenient to not interpret it that way, that we should change our interpretation?

If it said explicitly that the militia was the well-armed non-conscripted citizenry, would you then surmise that we should arm the citizenry?

Would you proscribe that we can change the definition of terms in the English language over time, and then re-interpret the Constitution and other laws to use the new language and thus have different meaning?
 
2012-12-17 02:25:32 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: bluefoxicy: What can a man do when threatened by violence except employ the threat or execution of greater, more effective violence? You grab your wife and child and run into your safe room. The criminal, knowing police will never come (or if they do, they'll come asking politely for surrender and never employ the use of force), takes a high-temperature welding torch to your 18 inch steel door. 36 hours later he's cut through most of it, and a huge chunk falls away. He now strides in, rapes your 15 year old and your wife in front of you, and then uses the torch to melt your head off.

Or, you could call the police, who will arrest him and subject him to trial by a jury of his peers. Like a civilized human being.

If you keep a firearm in your house, its statistically most likely use is against you, either by yourself, by a family member, or by someone breaking in and taking it from you. Everything else is Red Dawn fantasizing.


What fantasy world do you live in where cops respond in time to divert a crime from occurring? I love how you say "like a civilized human being would do". Excuse me sir, could you please refrain from breaking in and wait here while the cops come that would be most excellent! Let me put on some tea while we wait, pip pip cheerio.

Wow dude. Do you live in an all white gated community where homes are upwards of a million each? Rural town where everyone knows everyone and keeps their doors unlocked and windows open? Have you ever lived or grown up in the real world? Me owning a gun has prevented my neighbor's house being broken into and her assaulted as well as my own home being broken into in broad freaking daylight. I called the cops, they didn't show up until almost 30 minutes later and the station is maybe 5 minutes away. A baseball bat would not have scared off 3 armed assailants. Do I live in a bad area of town? No, my house was $498,000 in a pretty damn good part of town.
 
2012-12-17 02:25:46 PM

imtheonlylp: "He had a fourth weapon in the trunk of the black Honda he drove to the school. The car belonged to his mother."

BAN ALL HONDAS NOW.


Do you honestly think that these puerile statements are actually helping your cause?
 
2012-12-17 02:26:22 PM

inner ted: coco ebert: Rich white people have lost their gotdamn minds!

do you troll like this in every thread, or just the ones relating to mass shootings?


Only gun threads, but to be fair gun nuts make it so easy.
 
2012-12-17 02:27:07 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Vectron: The state news agency in China, the official voice of the government, has called for the United States to quickly adopt stricter gun controls in the aftermath of the shooting rampage in Connecticut that left 28 people dead, including 20 schoolchildren.

Red Dawn, anyone?

The first one with the Cubans, or the second one with the North Koreans?
I prefer the Cubans. I figure a few of them will be holding cigars.



I haven't seen other. I'm just like "The Red Chinese want to disarm us so they can invade, oh my!"
 
2012-12-17 02:27:35 PM
It's pretty cool to find out that I've been in a well regulated militia my whole life and didn't even know it.
 
2012-12-17 02:28:08 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Wolf_Blitzer: If you keep a firearm in your house, its statistically most likely use is against you, either by yourself, by a family member, or by someone breaking in and taking it from you. 

[i48.tinypic.com image 500x271]


Ask and ye shall receive.
 
2012-12-17 02:28:15 PM
From what I read she was shot in her bed, I wonder if she was still asleep when the first round hit her in the head...
 
2012-12-17 02:28:23 PM
Wolf_Blitzer:

...my actual choice is a trained police force, democratically answerable to me and my fellow citizens

i50.tinypic.com
 
GCD
2012-12-17 02:29:04 PM

NightOwl2255: There was a movie awhile back, The Trigger Effect. It's about how fast society would fall apart in the face of a crisis, in this case a black out. Yes, it's a movie. But, I tend to believe that my law-abiding neighbor is about two weeks of watching his kids starve away from being a stone-cold killer.


Maybe I just think differently, but odds are if I found myself in that kind of situation, I would attempt to exhaust all possible avenues of finding food before I went batshiat crazy robbing my neighbors of their food supplies at gunpoint.

Hell, if I had a weapon, I could even actually do something productive and beneficial, like HUNT for my food.
 
2012-12-17 02:30:12 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Vectron: The state news agency in China, the official voice of the government, has called for the United States to quickly adopt stricter gun controls in the aftermath of the shooting rampage in Connecticut that left 28 people dead, including 20 schoolchildren.

Red Dawn, anyone?

The first one with the Cubans, or the second one with the North Koreans?
I prefer the Cubans. I figure a few of them will be holding cigars.


I just watched the older Red Dawn last night, as it is so awesomely horrible.

I was shocked, SHOCKED I SAY to discover that this guy

www.dahr.ru

is also this guy...


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-12-17 02:31:44 PM

bluefoxicy: Trivia Jockey: Yes, I understand that the S. Ct. held in 2008 that the militia clause of the 2nd Amendment was not a limitation but a descriptor, but I'm skeptical of such a holding given that 200+ years passed between that "understanding" and the ratification of the Constitution. Especially when Scalia led the way - that guy, and a couple of his cohorts, are really "out there" on jurisprudence, to say the least. I could easily see a different Court coming to a different result.

Are you saying that the Constitution provides that the citizenry IS the militia; but since it doesn't say so explicitly and it's now convenient to not interpret it that way, that we should change our interpretation?

If it said explicitly that the militia was the well-armed non-conscripted citizenry, would you then surmise that we should arm the citizenry?

Would you proscribe that we can change the definition of terms in the English language over time, and then re-interpret the Constitution and other laws to use the new language and thus have different meaning?



I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. But if you're saying that the "militia" was every person in the United States, I would disagree with you. Some contemporary legal scholars opine (and I agree) that the "militia" is the equivalent to today's National Guard. So no, I'm not trying to "redefine" anything or re-interpert anything, except to the extent that I think the Heller decision was an incorrect interpretation of the militia clause of the 2nd Amendment. I don't think it was merely an 'example', I think the phrase was inserted purposefully to indicate that the citizenry that happened to be part of the milita would be entited to bear arms, but not everyone is the "militia".
 
2012-12-17 02:31:54 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Wolf_Blitzer:

...my actual choice is a trained police force, democratically answerable to me and my fellow citizens

[i50.tinypic.com image 479x356]


The homicide by firearms rate in the U.S. is 2.67 per 100,000 people. In the U.K., its 0.07. Gun control: it works, biatches.
 
2012-12-17 02:31:57 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Wolf_Blitzer: If you keep a firearm in your house, its statistically most likely use is against you, either by yourself, by a family member, or by someone breaking in and taking it from you. 

[i48.tinypic.com image 500x271]

Ask and ye shall receive.


"There is compelling evidence that a gun in the home is a risk factor for intimidation and for killing women in their homes, and it appears that a gun in the home may more likely be used to threaten intimates than to protect against intruders," wrote Hemenway. "On the potential benefit side, there is no good evidence of a deterrent effect of firearms or that a gun in the home reduces the likelihood or severity of injury during an altercation or break-in."

Well that looks like hard evidence to me.

The article is conjecture at best.
 
2012-12-17 02:32:31 PM

dittybopper: dericwater: Being a survivalist is the most expensive and least efficient way to survive a major catastrophe.

I happen to disagree.

Most of what people would call "survivalism" isn't stocking up on X, Y, or Z, but gathering the skills and knowledge to deal with a crisis. For example, describe to me 3 ways to make water potable in an emergency situation. What common food items found in every kitchen can be used for heat, light, and cooking? There is likely a good source of emergency electricity on your property, do you know how to exploit that?

Now, doomsday preppers are one thing, but being prepared for relatively common, but extended disasters isn't a bad thing. And yeah, having some extra canned goods, etc., around doesn't hurt, of course.


Bingo. That's the thing that makes me laugh about so many "doomsday preppers" If you really believe civilization is about to be over you are far better buying a handloading rig and learning how to use it than you are stockpiling ammo, or better yet learn a good recipe for gunpowder, locate a reliable source of sulfur, learn how to extract saltpeter from batshiat, and get a lead mold and a a muzzle loader with a rifled barrel. You'd also better know where some good drinking water is and a working knowledge of what crops will grow in your area and how to get the tasty edible parts out of your local fuana wihout giving yourself e. Coli posioning. And IF you know all that, you might could scratch out a starveling's existence after everything goes south, as long as you are resigned to losing half of everyone you love to diseases that vaccination eradicted decades ago and illnesses you used to be able to make go away with $1 worth of penicillin.

Far beter to put all that energy into keeping civilization from collapsing in the first place it seems to me
 
2012-12-17 02:32:35 PM

LabGrrl: Just for a fact check on statements up thread (emphasis mine) (cdc 2009 stats):

Motor vehicle traffic deaths

Number of deaths: 34,485
Deaths per 100,000 population: 11.2

All firearm deaths

Number of deaths: 31,347
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.2

By no means at all is that "far more deaths" from cars. Source. It is my understanding the 2012 stats are even tighter, and gun deaths are trending up and car deaths are trending down.



I, for one, like it when people draw the comparison between guns and cars.

All operating cars must be registered with the state. And you and I must be trained, certified and licensed to use one on the roadways, under strict penalty of law. And every few years, I need to have my certification renewed by the state. In addition, as a car owner, I am required to buy insurance to cover any damage incurred during its use.

We do all of these things and take these precautions because cars are inherently dangerous things, capable of instant death and destruction.

It's just common sense.
 
2012-12-17 02:33:37 PM
Before you lock up all the preppers in your Fema camps, I hope you will give some thought to first locking up black males.

If you are really upset about gun violence and want to do something about it take a look at black majority communities.
 
2012-12-17 02:33:42 PM

GCD: NightOwl2255: There was a movie awhile back, The Trigger Effect. It's about how fast society would fall apart in the face of a crisis, in this case a black out. Yes, it's a movie. But, I tend to believe that my law-abiding neighbor is about two weeks of watching his kids starve away from being a stone-cold killer.

Maybe I just think differently, but odds are if I found myself in that kind of situation, I would attempt to exhaust all possible avenues of finding food before I went batshiat crazy robbing my neighbors of their food supplies at gunpoint.

Hell, if I had a weapon, I could even actually do something productive and beneficial, like HUNT for my food.


It wouldn't matter what you would do, look at Katrina. The only thing stopping every city looking like Detroit or NO during Katrina is the fear of being killed for their actions. You remove that element and I hope you have a gun and know how to use it because your smugness isn't going to stop someone from taking what is yours.
 
2012-12-17 02:33:43 PM

Heinrich von Eckardt: Colour_out_of_Space: [img836.imageshack.us image 305x660]


[i46.tinypic.com image 305x164] 

Well regulated, as is properly functioning i.e. a citizenry proficient in the use of arms.


"Well regulated" could have that idiomatic use, yes, but when used in the context of militias, "regulated" meant officially controlled and or disciplined.

From the Oxford English Dictionary:

1714 J. Pointer Chronol. Hist. Eng. II. 461 The Muscovite Army was above 100000 Men, and the Swedes but 20000 Regulated Troops.

1769 J. Brown Dict. Holy Bible II. 487/1 What regulated troops of vigilant, active, and courageous ministers, armed with the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

1816 J. Aikin Ann. Reign of George III II. 253 On November 15, the Janissaries, who had massacred the principal officers of the regulated troops, scaled the walls of the seraglio.
 
2012-12-17 02:33:48 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: That is my only point: the sole purpose of a firearm is to inflict death. People who advocate walking around with one strapped to your hip should be judged accordingly.


Am I the only one that after reading that, every post I see from the guy I hear Charlie Brown's mom talking?
 
2012-12-17 02:34:12 PM

Rent Party: occamswrist: Rent Party: Sleeping Monkey: She gets the fail award of the year for believing that having assault weapons in her home would make her safe. Now that entire community is paying for her ignorance.

I've been having this argument with my family for a few months now, but the answer to this isn't legislation restricting access to guns, but legislation placing 100% responsibility for controlling that gun on the person that legally owns it, and making the penalties for not controlling it absolutely draconian.

If your kid gets your gun and robs the 7-11, you're doing 10 years mandatory minimum. If your kid gets your guns and shoots up an elementary school, you're doing life, no parole.

Gun control should start with gun owners, and positive control of the weapon needs to be the primary responsibility that comes along with it. If this lady knew she could be doing hard prison time if her guns got out of her control, she might have taken better care of them and kept them out of the hands of her nutter kid.

Guns belong on your person, or locked up tight. Not in your nightstand or under your bed.

What if someone steals your car and uses it to commit a crime?

If someone could use my car to murder 26 little kids, you might have a point.

But they can't, and you don't.


You don't like the question (not point) I asked because you might be afraid to answer it honestly.

If someone has their property stolen and that property is used in a crime, do you recommend punishing the victim of the theft or is this whipping boy mentality just for stolen guns? and knives? Household chemicals? Cars?

Because guns can kill 26 then their owners should be responsible for aanything bad that happens with them?

A gun owner whose gun is stolen and used to commit a robbery deserve 10 years in prison but if a stolen car is used to kill a person then the owner bears no responsibility? Your argument needs to explain morally why the gun owner deserves jail time but the car owner doesn't. 26 murdered kids is irrelevant to the two scenarios I described above but I'm sure you'll work it in somehow.
 
2012-12-17 02:34:50 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Wolf_Blitzer: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Wolf_Blitzer: If you keep a firearm in your house, its statistically most likely use is against you, either by yourself, by a family member, or by someone breaking in and taking it from you. 

[i48.tinypic.com image 500x271]

Ask and ye shall receive.

"There is compelling evidence that a gun in the home is a risk factor for intimidation and for killing women in their homes, and it appears that a gun in the home may more likely be used to threaten intimates than to protect against intruders," wrote Hemenway. "On the potential benefit side, there is no good evidence of a deterrent effect of firearms or that a gun in the home reduces the likelihood or severity of injury during an altercation or break-in."

Well that looks like hard evidence to me.

The article is conjecture at best.


You are more than welcome to look up the article in the actual journal, which has plenty of statistics to back itself up. Or, you can continue to move the goalposts.
 
2012-12-17 02:35:56 PM

Mr_Fabulous: All operating cars must be registered with the state. And you and I must be trained, certified and licensed to use one on the roadways, under strict penalty of law. And every few years, I need to have my certification renewed by the state. In addition, as a car owner, I am required to buy insurance to cover any damage incurred during its use.

We do all of these things and take these precautions because cars are inherently dangerous things, capable of instant death and destruction.


Well said.
 
2012-12-17 02:36:09 PM

NightOwl2255: Wolf_Blitzer: That is my only point: the sole purpose of a firearm is to inflict death. People who advocate walking around with one strapped to your hip should be judged accordingly.

Am I the only one that after reading that, every post I see from the guy I hear Charlie Brown's mom talking?


I'm sorry if I used too many big words for you.
 
2012-12-17 02:36:47 PM

WhippingBoy: imtheonlylp: "He had a fourth weapon in the trunk of the black Honda he drove to the school. The car belonged to his mother."

BAN ALL HONDAS NOW.

Do you honestly think that these puerile statements are actually helping your cause?


WhippingBoy: imtheonlylp: "He had a fourth weapon in the trunk of the black Honda he drove to the school. The car belonged to his mother."

BAN ALL HONDAS NOW.

Do you honestly think that these puerile statements are actually helping your cause?


welcometofark.jpg :)
 
2012-12-17 02:36:52 PM

GCD: Maybe I just think differently, but odds are if I found myself in that kind of situation, I would attempt to exhaust all possible avenues of finding food before I went batshiat crazy robbing my neighbors of their food supplies at gunpoint.

Hell, if I had a weapon, I could even actually do something productive and beneficial, like HUNT for my food.


Yeah, but when your armed batshiat crazy neighbor comes for what little you have left, you better hope you have more to stop him than fond memories.
 
2012-12-17 02:37:13 PM
Is it really better if these guys (NSFW) are the only ones to possess certain guns or all guns?
 
2012-12-17 02:37:34 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Wah wah woh wah wah.

 
2012-12-17 02:38:33 PM

NightOwl2255: GCD: Maybe I just think differently, but odds are if I found myself in that kind of situation, I would attempt to exhaust all possible avenues of finding food before I went batshiat crazy robbing my neighbors of their food supplies at gunpoint.

Hell, if I had a weapon, I could even actually do something productive and beneficial, like HUNT for my food.

Yeah, but when your armed batshiat crazy neighbor comes for what little you have left, you better hope you have more to stop him than fond memories.


In my pretend fantasies everyone is a bunny rabbit.
 
2012-12-17 02:38:59 PM

Thunderpipes: hammettman: Coco LaFemme: Gee, who would have thought that being a paranoid survivalist stockpiling guns with a mentally disturbed child in the house would end up being a really stupid idea. I wish this woman wasn't dead because if her son hadn't shot her first, I'd be demanding her ass be put on trial for all 26 dead bodies her son racked up. She helped create the monster, she should have been made to pay for it.

THIS

And sadly, it's too soon or too sad to call her a dumbass because polite society says she should be pitied for dying horribly at the hands of her own child. No. fark her. And somebody on teevee no doubt put that B-52 loadfull of weapons grade derp in her pathetic brain. I'd love to know where she acquired that bs.

This is just plain stupid. Dems will just use this as mare ammo to chip away at rights. As terrible as this tragedy is, using it to erode the constitution is a slipper slope.

Cars kill far more people each year. Ban them too?

If you want to fix the problem, start being tough parents again. But liberals don't believe in that. Further left we go, the worse society gets.


False equivalency is, you know, false.

When people gets killed by cars, its an accident, unless you drive your car toward someone on the purpose of killing them. How often does that happen? You can only compare that with when you try to shoot a deer and end up shooting your buddy. It does happen, but no one is talking about that.
 
2012-12-17 02:39:10 PM

Magorn: dittybopper: dericwater: Being a survivalist is the most expensive and least efficient way to survive a major catastrophe.

I happen to disagree.

Most of what people would call "survivalism" isn't stocking up on X, Y, or Z, but gathering the skills and knowledge to deal with a crisis. For example, describe to me 3 ways to make water potable in an emergency situation. What common food items found in every kitchen can be used for heat, light, and cooking? There is likely a good source of emergency electricity on your property, do you know how to exploit that?

Now, doomsday preppers are one thing, but being prepared for relatively common, but extended disasters isn't a bad thing. And yeah, having some extra canned goods, etc., around doesn't hurt, of course.

Bingo. That's the thing that makes me laugh about so many "doomsday preppers" If you really believe civilization is about to be over you are far better buying a handloading rig and learning how to use it than you are stockpiling ammo, or better yet learn a good recipe for gunpowder, locate a reliable source of sulfur, learn how to extract saltpeter from batshiat, and get a lead mold and a a muzzle loader with a rifled barrel. You'd also better know where some good drinking water is and a working knowledge of what crops will grow in your area and how to get the tasty edible parts out of your local fuana wihout giving yourself e. Coli posioning. And IF you know all that, you might could scratch out a starveling's existence after everything goes south, as long as you are resigned to losing half of everyone you love to diseases that vaccination eradicted decades ago and illnesses you used to be able to make go away with $1 worth of penicillin.

Far beter to put all that energy into keeping civilization from collapsing in the first place it seems to me


I think it usually comes down to masturbatory fantasies of getting to take everyone else's crap because they are dead. Most survivalism fiction focuses on scavenging cool crap that a person could never afford before the end-times. That's also why they need huge guns.
/I have always loved learning about bush-craft and I am ashamed to have any similar interests to these nutbags right now.
 
2012-12-17 02:39:32 PM

imtheonlylp: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Wolf_Blitzer: If you keep a firearm in your house, its statistically most likely use is against you, either by yourself, by a family member, or by someone breaking in and taking it from you. 

[i48.tinypic.com image 500x271]

37% of all statistics are made up on the spot.


I heard it was 24 percent.
 
2012-12-17 02:39:36 PM
Whom?
 
2012-12-17 02:40:11 PM

dittybopper: For example, describe to me 3 ways to make water potable in an emergency situation.


Boil it, create an inverted tent with some sort of plastic tarp and then let it evaporate, collect on the tarp and drip into a cup, use the chlorine powders to disinfect water?

dittybopper: What common food items found in every kitchen can be used for heat, light, and cooking?


You can use vegetable oil or olive oil and an improvised wick and container to make yourself a rudimentary oil lamp, right?

dittybopper: There is likely a good source of emergency electricity on your property, do you know how to exploit that?


What, you mean your car?

How did I do?
 
2012-12-17 02:40:52 PM

Huck And Molly Ziegler: imtheonlylp: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Wolf_Blitzer: If you keep a firearm in your house, its statistically most likely use is against you, either by yourself, by a family member, or by someone breaking in and taking it from you. 

[i48.tinypic.com image 500x271]

37% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

I heard it was 24 percent.


Dude its more like 90%.
 
2012-12-17 02:41:04 PM

pedrop357: Is it really better if these guys (NSFW) are the only ones to possess certain guns or all guns?


wow...."He's dead, Jim".
 
2012-12-17 02:41:05 PM

Trivia Jockey: I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. But if you're saying that the "militia" was every person in the United States, I would disagree with you. Some contemporary legal scholars opine (and I agree) that the "militia" is the equivalent to today's National Guard. So no, I'm not trying to "redefine" anything or re-interpert anything, except to the extent that I think the Heller decision was an incorrect interpretation of the militia clause of the 2nd Amendment. I don't think it was merely an 'example', I think the phrase was inserted purposefully to indicate that the citizenry that happened to be part of the milita would be entited to bear arms, but not everyone is the "militia".


Ah, okay. I thought you were referring to the "understanding" of the definition 200 years ago (and thus proscribing that this had changed over time), not the "understanding" as the current Judicial decision.

You're wrong.

Miltia, n.: A military force of civilians to supplement a regular army in an emergency.

This is the definition as explained to me in the 90s in grade school. National Guard is not made up of civilians; these people are military, they are cleared, they are accountable under UCMJ, and so on. They are required to salute officers, they have rank, and you are required to salute them if they outrank you and you are military. Civilians do not have rank, nobody is required to salute them, and they aren't required to do anything except not go where the military tells them not to; citizens do not salute officers.

Father was a non-commissioned officer (Master Sargent), grandfather was an NCO, both national guard. Both got military discounts, had military benefits, and carried military rank. Neither was considered a civilian. Neither was part of the Armed Forces of the United States of America.
 
2012-12-17 02:41:06 PM

occamswrist: Rent Party: occamswrist: Rent Party: Sleeping Monkey: She gets the fail award of the year for believing that having assault weapons in her home would make her safe. Now that entire community is paying for her ignorance.

I've been having this argument with my family for a few months now, but the answer to this isn't legislation restricting access to guns, but legislation placing 100% responsibility for controlling that gun on the person that legally owns it, and making the penalties for not controlling it absolutely draconian.

If your kid gets your gun and robs the 7-11, you're doing 10 years mandatory minimum. If your kid gets your guns and shoots up an elementary school, you're doing life, no parole.

Gun control should start with gun owners, and positive control of the weapon needs to be the primary responsibility that comes along with it. If this lady knew she could be doing hard prison time if her guns got out of her control, she might have taken better care of them and kept them out of the hands of her nutter kid.

Guns belong on your person, or locked up tight. Not in your nightstand or under your bed.

What if someone steals your car and uses it to commit a crime?

If someone could use my car to murder 26 little kids, you might have a point.

But they can't, and you don't.

You don't like the question (not point) I asked because you might be afraid to answer it honestly.

If someone has their property stolen and that property is used in a crime, do you recommend punishing the victim of the theft or is this whipping boy mentality just for stolen guns? and knives? Household chemicals? Cars?

Because guns can kill 26 then their owners should be responsible for aanything bad that happens with them?

A gun owner whose gun is stolen and used to commit a robbery deserve 10 years in prison but if a stolen car is used to kill a person then the owner bears no responsibility? Your argument needs to explain morally why the gun owner deserves jail time but the car owner doesn't. 26 murdered kids is irrelevant to the two scenarios I described above but I'm sure you'll work it in somehow.


Because the car has an intended and necessary purpose other than to directly inflict bodily harm.

A card's primary purpose is to get you from point a to point b. that's what a car is for. If a car works as intended, that's what it'll do.

A gun, when used as intended, kills or gravely wounds what it is aimed at.

Not to say I agree or disagree with the other guys point re responsibility for something another does with my possessions, just saying there is a huge fundamental difference between a gun and a car, in terms of responsibility.
 
2012-12-17 02:42:02 PM

meatsack_01:


Okay, put the signs up, but don't actually arm anyone. I'm fine with that.
 
2012-12-17 02:42:22 PM
Gee, how could've this possibly influenced anything?

It was clearly evil video games that are to blame. Right?
 
2012-12-17 02:42:39 PM
So she was a card carrying NRA member then?

Probably a Nugent fan as well...
 
2012-12-17 02:42:49 PM

coco ebert: inner ted: coco ebert: Rich white people have lost their gotdamn minds!

do you troll like this in every thread, or just the ones relating to mass shootings?

Only gun threads, but to be fair gun nuts make it so easy.


well good to know you are just trolling, rather than assuming you are just pants on head tarded

& keeping it classy by limiting your trolling to mass shooting events

win / win
 
2012-12-17 02:42:57 PM

mayIFark: Thunderpipes: hammettman: Coco LaFemme: Gee, who would have thought that being a paranoid survivalist stockpiling guns with a mentally disturbed child in the house would end up being a really stupid idea. I wish this woman wasn't dead because if her son hadn't shot her first, I'd be demanding her ass be put on trial for all 26 dead bodies her son racked up. She helped create the monster, she should have been made to pay for it.

THIS

And sadly, it's too soon or too sad to call her a dumbass because polite society says she should be pitied for dying horribly at the hands of her own child. No. fark her. And somebody on teevee no doubt put that B-52 loadfull of weapons grade derp in her pathetic brain. I'd love to know where she acquired that bs.

This is just plain stupid. Dems will just use this as mare ammo to chip away at rights. As terrible as this tragedy is, using it to erode the constitution is a slipper slope.

Cars kill far more people each year. Ban them too?

If you want to fix the problem, start being tough parents again. But liberals don't believe in that. Further left we go, the worse society gets.

False equivalency is, you know, false.

When people gets killed by cars, its an accident, unless you drive your car toward someone on the purpose of killing them. How often does that happen? You can only compare that with when you try to shoot a deer and end up shooting your buddy. It does happen, but no one is talking about that.


Plus, today cars are essential for most people in terms of getting to work, etc. Take cars away and you would have to radically redesign just about very community in the United States. Take automatic weapons away, and all that happens is that a bunch of mouth breathers get the sads.
 
2012-12-17 02:43:05 PM

Phineas: Wolf_blitzer

Just callin 'em as I sees 'em. This thread (and the article) contain mostly liberals who confuse the tools used to perpetrate the crime with the mental condition of the people who perpetrate them. This kid could've just as easily driven a truck through the side of the building and crushed a classroom. In fact, that would've been easier. But yeah, its easier to blame guns.

I figured you liberals would enjoy knowing how I see you, as hand-wringing hens that flock together and come to irrational conclusions based on the facts at hand. And if there's something you can't quite grasp, you check with other liberals to find out what it is you should be thinking.


What??

Um, you really are not helping others' perception of your politics with this set of predictable stereotypes.

Who is telling you that all liberals think in lockstep like this?
 
2012-12-17 02:43:38 PM

NightOwl2255: Wolf_Blitzer: Wah wah woh wah wah.


Agree with him or not, he's explaining his position in a clear and rational way.
 
2012-12-17 02:44:48 PM

ghare: Zukipilot: Are you farking kidding me???? Multiple 30 round clips and 100's of rounds is an afternoon (very short one) at the shooting range...

20 dead kids is a small price to pay so you don't have to reload as frequently at the range.


Ah. The old "shame them into agreeing with you" defense. How's that working out for you?

/love my 30-round magazines
//plz 2 lrn difference btwn mags and clips, kkthx
 
2012-12-17 02:45:26 PM

Vodka Zombie: Well... The important thing is that her 2nd Amendment rights weren't infringed upon. That would have been the real tragedy here, and we should be thankful that she died free.


+1, and a cookie.
 
2012-12-17 02:46:00 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: NightOwl2255: Wolf_Blitzer: Wah wah woh wah wah.

Agree with him or not, he's explaining his position in a clear and rational way.


Which we all know, has no place on Fark.
 
2012-12-17 02:46:27 PM

occamswrist: Rent Party: occamswrist: Rent Party: Sleeping Monkey: She gets the fail award of the year for believing that having assault weapons in her home would make her safe. Now that entire community is paying for her ignorance.

I've been having this argument with my family for a few months now, but the answer to this isn't legislation restricting access to guns, but legislation placing 100% responsibility for controlling that gun on the person that legally owns it, and making the penalties for not controlling it absolutely draconian.

If your kid gets your gun and robs the 7-11, you're doing 10 years mandatory minimum. If your kid gets your guns and shoots up an elementary school, you're doing life, no parole.

Gun control should start with gun owners, and positive control of the weapon needs to be the primary responsibility that comes along with it. If this lady knew she could be doing hard prison time if her guns got out of her control, she might have taken better care of them and kept them out of the hands of her nutter kid.

Guns belong on your person, or locked up tight. Not in your nightstand or under your bed.

What if someone steals your car and uses it to commit a crime?

If someone could use my car to murder 26 little kids, you might have a point.

But they can't, and you don't.

You don't like the question (not point) I asked because you might be afraid to answer it honestly.


The question itself is patently ridiculous, as are you. Answered honestly, cars are much more highly regulated than guns are. I have to have a license to operate one, that license has to be renewed on a regular basis, I have to have the vehicle itself registered with the state and that registration has to be renewed annually. In short, because a car can be a dangerous thing, they are much more highly regulated than a gun, which is an even more dangerous thing.

But that's kind of irrelevant. You asked a really farking dumb question. You don't like my answer because it exposes just exactly how dumb a question it is.


If someone has their property stolen and that property is used in a crime, do you recommend punishing the victim of the theft or is this whipping boy mentality just for stolen guns?


For things that can be used to kill lots of people. For example, if you had a bunch of explosives laying around and someone got hold of them and blew up a school bus, you would be accountable for that.

Oh wait, explosives storage is already federally regulated.... Damn.


and knives? Household chemicals? Cars?


See above. When someone can commit mass murder with a knife, give me a call.


Because guns can kill 26 then their owners should be responsible for aanything bad that happens with them?


Yes. It is * precisely* because guns have massive potential for death and destruction by even the simplest of minds that their owners need to be held to 100% responsibility for them.


A gun owner whose gun is stolen and used to commit a robbery deserve 10 years in prison but if a stolen car is used to kill a person then the owner bears no responsibility? Your argument needs to explain morally why the gun owner deserves jail time but the ca ...


Because the gun was used to rob the store, not the car. The gun was used to commit the threat, not the car. Because the gun was used to kill 26 people, not the car. That the gun was stolen means it wasn't properly secured. It means that the gun owner left it in some place where it could be stolen. It means it wasn't on his person or locked up tight.

I know you keep yours under your pillow, which means you are exactly the kind of irresponsible gun owner that gives the rest of us a bad name.
 
2012-12-17 02:46:39 PM

bluefoxicy: Miltia, n.: A military force of civilians to supplement a regular army in an emergency.

This is the definition as explained to me in the 90s in grade school.


Ah, well if Mr. Eversfield from third period said so, I guess we can all turn off the lights and go home! Problem solved, everyone!
 
2012-12-17 02:48:02 PM

TerminalEchoes: ghare: Zukipilot: Are you farking kidding me???? Multiple 30 round clips and 100's of rounds is an afternoon (very short one) at the shooting range...

20 dead kids is a small price to pay so you don't have to reload as frequently at the range.

Ah. The old "shame them into agreeing with you" defense. How's that working out for you?

/love my 30-round magazines
//plz 2 lrn difference btwn mags and clips, kkthx


man you gun-nuts sure are sticklers for semantics. 20 dead kids and all you guys can talk about is the technical differences between clips and mags and the phrase "ASSAULT RIFLES/WEAPONS!" please get a better argument.
 
2012-12-17 02:49:04 PM

mayIFark: When people gets killed by cars, its an accident, unless you drive your car toward someone on the purpose of killing them. How often does that happen? You can only compare that with when you try to shoot a deer and end up shooting your buddy. It does happen, but no one is talking about that.


That makes it better?

Guns are allegedly only for killing, are possessed in the hundreds of millions by tens of millions of people, of whom several million carry a gun EVERYDAY without using it to harm a single person. Some people may go to a range and have 3-10 people handle their firearm and shoot hundreds, maybe thousands of rounds through it. So, guns are used potentially thousands of times a day (does each trip to the range count, or is it each round expended) and there's less harm from that then driving a car, less children killed by guns then pools or buckets, etc.

Cars, which are designed to drive people around manage to kill more people by ACCIDENT then guns do on purpose. it's really too bad that cars aren't used as safely as guns.
 
2012-12-17 02:50:07 PM

Vegan Meat Popsicle: HotWingConspiracy: meatsack_01: [causes-prod.caudn.com image 640x636]

Good luck threatening death to people planning to kill themselves in an attack.

Now now. Never in the history of ever has anybody ever intentionally gone into a public space with the intention of being shot to death by police. I mean. If that actually happened there'd be a name for it, I'm sure. "Getting yourself suicided by law enforcement" or something. I dunno. Something snappy. I'm sure someone can come up with something.

And it's not like these people ever armor themselves. No siree. Can't think of any recent shootings where the perp was wearing enough armor to be largely immune to any serious injury from small arms fire.

Besides, what's better than a semi-automatic crossfire in a crowded elementary school hallway full of small children between largely unpracticed people toting deadly weapons!? I'm sure they'll all know to hit the deck and leopard crawl to cover.

The only solution to violence is an exponential retaliatory increase! Nothing could possibly go wrong with that theory.


We must not have a mine shaft gap!
 
2012-12-17 02:50:26 PM

bluefoxicy: Wolf_Blitzer: Do you honestly, sincerely believe that your area is full of people waiting to bust down your door, steal everything you own and rape you, the second they find out there's no guns in your home?

My back door has about 30 or 40 impact marks on it where a battering ram was taken to it in an attempt to force entry.

My home defense system consists of a 2x4. Everyone in my area has steel bars permanently mounted to the windows around the basement and first floor.


Next time let the police in when they knock.
 
2012-12-17 02:51:25 PM

pedrop357: mayIFark: When people gets killed by cars, its an accident, unless you drive your car toward someone on the purpose of killing them. How often does that happen? You can only compare that with when you try to shoot a deer and end up shooting your buddy. It does happen, but no one is talking about that.

That makes it better?

Guns are allegedly only for killing, are possessed in the hundreds of millions by tens of millions of people, of whom several million carry a gun EVERYDAY without using it to harm a single person. Some people may go to a range and have 3-10 people handle their firearm and shoot hundreds, maybe thousands of rounds through it. So, guns are used potentially thousands of times a day (does each trip to the range count, or is it each round expended) and there's less harm from that then driving a car, less children killed by guns then pools or buckets, etc.

Cars, which are designed to drive people around manage to kill more people by ACCIDENT then guns do on purpose. it's really too bad that cars aren't used as safely as guns.


Yea, which is why people have to take tests before they are allowed to drive them, which is why they can lose their license if they don't drive properly, which is why cars have to be inspected, etc. Which is why they are, in short, regulated up the wazoo. Just like guns should be.
 
2012-12-17 02:52:47 PM

El_Frijole_Blanco: So a Teabagger then


===============
My god what you circle jerk idiots know about the Tea Party and what it stands for is absolutely ZERO. Do you ever stop to read anything or do you just watch Bill Maher and Michael Moore for your news?

duuu duuu tea bagger duu duuu fox news duuu duuu glenn beck....
 
2012-12-17 02:53:03 PM

Rent Party: occamswrist: Rent Party: occamswrist: Rent Party: Sleeping Monkey: She gets the fail award of the year for believing that having assault weapons in her home would make her safe. Now that entire community is paying for her ignorance.

I've been having this argument with my family for a few months now, but the answer to this isn't legislation restricting access to guns, but legislation placing 100% responsibility for controlling that gun on the person that legally owns it, and making the penalties for not controlling it absolutely draconian.

If your kid gets your gun and robs the 7-11, you're doing 10 years mandatory minimum. If your kid gets your guns and shoots up an elementary school, you're doing life, no parole.

Gun control should start with gun owners, and positive control of the weapon needs to be the primary responsibility that comes along with it. If this lady knew she could be doing hard prison time if her guns got out of her control, she might have taken better care of them and kept them out of the hands of her nutter kid.

Guns belong on your person, or locked up tight. Not in your nightstand or under your bed.

What if someone steals your car and uses it to commit a crime?

If someone could use my car to murder 26 little kids, you might have a point.

But they can't, and you don't.

You don't like the question (not point) I asked because you might be afraid to answer it honestly.


The question itself is patently ridiculous, as are you. Answered honestly, cars are much more highly regulated than guns are. I have to have a license to operate one, that license has to be renewed on a regular basis, I have to have the vehicle itself registered with the state and that registration has to be renewed annually. In short, because a car can be a dangerous thing, they are much more highly regulated than a gun, which is an even more dangerous thing.

But that's kind of irrelevant. You asked a really farking dumb question. You don't like my answer because it exposes just exactly how dumb a question it is.


If someone has their property stolen and that property is used in a crime, do you recommend punishing the victim of the theft or is this whipping boy mentality just for stolen guns?


For things that can be used to kill lots of people. For example, if you had a bunch of explosives laying around and someone got hold of them and blew up a school bus, you would be accountable for that.

Oh wait, explosives storage is already federally regulated.... Damn.


and knives? Household chemicals? Cars?


See above. When someone can commit mass murder with a knife, give me a call.


Because guns can kill 26 then their owners should be responsible for aanything bad that happens with them?


Yes. It is * precisely* because guns have massive potential for death and destruction by even the simplest of minds that their owners need to be held to 100% responsibility for them.


A gun owner whose gun is stolen and used to commit a robbery deserve 10 years in prison but if a stolen car is used to kill a person then the owner bears no responsibility? Your argument needs to explain morally why the gun owner deserves jail time but the ca ...

Because the gun was used to rob the store, not the car. The gun was used to commit the threat, not the car. Because the gun was used to kill 26 people, not the car. That the gun was stolen means it wasn't properly secured. It means that the gun owner left it in some place where it could be stolen. It means it wasn't on his person or locked up tight.

I know you keep yours under your pillow, which means you are exactly the kind of irresponsible gun owner that gives the rest of us a bad name.


I learned from the best - Sledge Hammer.
 
2012-12-17 02:53:48 PM

Three-Fifty: Oh gawd. This is killing me and I haven't been able to check the whole thread to see if this has been brought up yet, but for the love of God:LEARN TO USE THE WORD WHOM PROPERLY! Go back to 4th grade and review, submitter!!!! Whom is only used for the OBJECT of an action.GRRRRR I don't know why this bugs me so much, but it does.It doesn't bug me enough to make me want to become a paranoid survivalist though, so there's that.


That damn "whom" annoys me more than the gun control thing. Incorrect usage of the "whom" just shows that someone is a pretentious idiot who thinks he knows more about the English language than the people who use the word correctly. We are all laughing at those people.

/gets paid to correct idiots like subby.
//please don't proofread..I'm off the clock.
 
2012-12-17 02:54:04 PM

TheNewJesus: So she was a card carrying NRA member then?

Probably a Nugent fan as well...


Probably not,

Some people think they're gonna die someday - I got news you never got to go.
 
2012-12-17 02:54:10 PM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Agree with him or not, he's explaining his position in a clear and rational way.


Really? He's explained that the sole purpose of a gun is to kill in a clear and rational way?
 
2012-12-17 02:54:27 PM

farkingnotworking: Yea, which is why people have to take tests before they are allowed to drive them, which is why they can lose their license if they don't drive properly, which is why cars have to be inspected, etc. Which is why they are, in short, regulated up the wazoo. Just like guns should be.


Cars, despite being 'more regulated' then guns still manage to kill more people then guns and you think regulation is the answer?
 
2012-12-17 02:54:30 PM

Kittypie070: Phineas: Wolf_blitzer

Just callin 'em as I sees 'em. This thread (and the article) contain mostly liberals who confuse the tools used to perpetrate the crime with the mental condition of the people who perpetrate them. This kid could've just as easily driven a truck through the side of the building and crushed a classroom. In fact, that would've been easier. But yeah, its easier to blame guns.

I figured you liberals would enjoy knowing how I see you, as hand-wringing hens that flock together and come to irrational conclusions based on the facts at hand. And if there's something you can't quite grasp, you check with other liberals to find out what it is you should be thinking.

What??

Um, you really are not helping others' perception of your politics with this set of predictable stereotypes.

Who is telling you that all liberals think in lockstep like this?


It's like... you know... part of the Liberal Agenda!!!!

KellyX's Liberal Agenda for 12/17/2012:

1. Get up

2. Piss

3. Brush teeth (remember to wash hands first!!)

4. Put clothes on

5. Go to work (ughhh again?)

6. Work

7. Come home...

8. Play WoW

9. Go to bed (don't forget to feed the cat or she'll sleep on your face!!!)
 
2012-12-17 02:54:37 PM

pedrop357: mayIFark: When people gets killed by cars, its an accident, unless you drive your car toward someone on the purpose of killing them. How often does that happen? You can only compare that with when you try to shoot a deer and end up shooting your buddy. It does happen, but no one is talking about that.

That makes it better?

Guns are allegedly only for killing, are possessed in the hundreds of millions by tens of millions of people, of whom several million carry a gun EVERYDAY without using it to harm a single person. Some people may go to a range and have 3-10 people handle their firearm and shoot hundreds, maybe thousands of rounds through it. So, guns are used potentially thousands of times a day (does each trip to the range count, or is it each round expended) and there's less harm from that then driving a car, less children killed by guns then pools or buckets, etc.

Cars, which are designed to drive people around manage to kill more people by ACCIDENT then guns do on purpose. it's really too bad that cars aren't used as safely as guns.


Do you ride your bullet to work? You need car as an essential part of your life. One, in today's society, only needs guns to compensate for that small something of theirs.
 
2012-12-17 02:54:55 PM

bluefoxicy: Miltia, n.: A military force of civilians to supplement a regular army in an emergency.


OK, let's go with this then...if this doesn't mean National Guard, what does it mean in today's context? I don't see the Court's reasoning that the 2nd Amendment applies to all citizens gels well with your defitition of militia. Not unless you can confidently state that all 300 million of this country's citizens are part of a "military force" that supplements the U.S. armed forces. I'm a citizen, and I'm certainly not part of a military force supplementing the Army.
 
2012-12-17 02:55:37 PM

Rent Party: I know you keep yours under your pillow, which means you are exactly the kind of irresponsible gun owner that gives the rest of us a bad name.


I know people who do that. Enlighten us to why that's a bad thing.
 
2012-12-17 02:55:50 PM

bluefoxicy


This is the definition as explained to me in the 90s in grade school. National Guard is not made up of civilians; these people are military, they are cleared [1] , they are accountable under UCMJ, and so on. They are required to salute officers, they have rank, and you are required to salute them if they outrank you and you are military. [2] Civilians do not have rank, nobody is required to salute them, and they aren't required to do anything except not go where the military tells them not to; citizens do not salute officers.


[1] Not necessarily. There are a lot of specialties that do not require a clearance.

[2] Enlisted personnel salute officers. Officers salute other officers of greater rank than themselves. No one salutes enlisted personnel. Salutes are not required when personnel are in civilian attire.
 
2012-12-17 02:57:09 PM

kronicfeld: If only she had more guns, she might've been safer.



=====================

We should pressure congress to outlaw killing people!!
 
2012-12-17 02:58:44 PM

mayIFark: Do you ride your bullet to work? You need car as an essential part of your life. One, in today's society, only needs guns to compensate for that small something of theirs.


Aside from this weird obsession that gun controllers have with penises, you didn't really address my point.

Cars 'kill' by accident more people then guns 'kill' on purpose, yet cars are far more regulated and we're supposed to believe that even more regulation will cause gun deaths to drop. Again, it really too bad that (supposedly) more regulated cars aren't used as safely as the (again supposedly) less regulated guns. Just imagine if cars killed as many people on purpose and as many people on accident as guns. We'd have at least 20,000 or so fewer deaths each year.
 
2012-12-17 02:59:06 PM

Trivia Jockey: bluefoxicy: Miltia, n.: A military force of civilians to supplement a regular army in an emergency.

OK, let's go with this then...if this doesn't mean National Guard, what does it mean in today's context? I don't see the Court's reasoning that the 2nd Amendment applies to all citizens gels well with your defitition of militia. Not unless you can confidently state that all 300 million of this country's citizens are part of a "military force" that supplements the U.S. armed forces. I'm a citizen, and I'm certainly not part of a military force supplementing the Army.


No no, you were right the first time, Trivia. In the 18th century it meant a governmentally regulated armed force. Here are the representative entries from the Oxford English Dictionary for "militia.":

1706 Phillips's New World of Words (ed. 6) , "Militia," a certain Number of the Inhabitants of the City and Country formed into Regular Bodies, and train'd up in the Art of War, for the Defence and Security of the Kingdom.

1776 A. Smith Inq. Wealth of Nations II. v. i. 300 It [sc. the state] may..oblige either all the citizens of the military age, or a certain number of them, to join in some measure the trade of a soldier to whatever other trade or profession they may happen to carry on... Its military force is [then] said to consist in a militia.

1777 W. Heath in J. Sparks Corr. Amer. Revol. (1853) I. 329 Our troops are all militia, and, although perhaps as good as any militia, yet they are not disciplined.
 
2012-12-17 02:59:12 PM

PreMortem: Court ordered mandatory psychological exams, then involuntary institutionalisation.

We are allowing too many whack jobs to roam freely.


if you are not tied to workplace responsibilities and are free to see what wonders the streets of your community day after day you would be lobbying in DC. it's rather incredible how many adults are in need of supervision. there are mentally ill, substance abusers and recidivists all over the streets of America. if more people really knew what/who was walking past them on a crowded sidewalk or in a busy mall their next trip would require careful consideration.
 
2012-12-17 02:59:34 PM
 
2012-12-17 02:59:37 PM
There's a curious thing about guns; many folks who own them have this urge to use them.

I have no problem with people owning guns. I own a few myself. However, it's been years since I fired any and a couple are gathering dust. I know folks who own guns, know gun safety, secure their weapons and ammo and who either like target shooting or do a bit of hunting.

Most have no desire or need for a military style weapon. I have been to gun shows, where at one end you can buy a civilian version of a military rifle and at the other end, you can buy a kit and instructions on how to convert it back into full automatic. They sell them under various names to get past the weak laws. Like 'spare parts'.

I usually see mounds of heavy, clear plastic bags holding masses of bright, shiny ammunition. 90% of the sellers have carry permits and wear their weapons in plain sight. The shows are always secured by the cops, who greet you entering and exiting, make sure any weapon you're bringing in is empty and secured and the same with any you're taking out. The cops are armed.

You can pick out the nutcases nearly the moment you enter the hall. They're usually festooned with assorted weapon related sayings and copies of the Bill of Rights. All are armed.

Still, you can find similar folks at a knife and sword show.

Every generation has it's Lunatic Fringe. The survivalists. They tend to consist of folks mainly resentful of any government but one they conceive. Paramilitary. Some are ex-military, who just loved the military too much -- even for the military.

I have no problem with teaching kids to shoot, provided you do it right. Many farm kids just about grow up teething on a shotgun, which they use to protect the farm from predators and for hunting. They almost never wind up going out and blasting holes in strangers or stop signs.

However, if you're a paranoid nutcase, you're gonna make your kids nuts. During puberty, teens have conflicting emotions and face a host of realizations and realities to sort out. Their youth acts against them here because they're chock full of energy and curiosity, though a bit short on common sense. Plus, for some unknown reason, many teens don't talk to their parents about their problems.

The reasons vary, according to those skilled in mental health and human nature, but it all boils down to them keeping a whole lot inside. It seems to be nature.

If you wind up having to live in a paranoid society, you become paranoid. If that society consistently expresses the 'kill or be killed' philosophy, then eventually you'll agree. Especially if you can't just leave.
 
2012-12-17 03:02:16 PM
Has anyone checked to see if this woman was a registered Rebublican or Democrat?

Seems like a lot off ass-umptions going around.

www.cwfa.org
 
2012-12-17 03:03:51 PM

JRoo: NightOwl2255: GCD: Maybe I just think differently, but odds are if I found myself in that kind of situation, I would attempt to exhaust all possible avenues of finding food before I went batshiat crazy robbing my neighbors of their food supplies at gunpoint.

Hell, if I had a weapon, I could even actually do something productive and beneficial, like HUNT for my food.

Yeah, but when your armed batshiat crazy neighbor comes for what little you have left, you better hope you have more to stop him than fond memories.

In my pretend fantasies everyone is a bunny rabbit.


Fourth post down:

http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=48999
 
2012-12-17 03:04:21 PM

KrispyKritter: PreMortem: Court ordered mandatory psychological exams, then involuntary institutionalisation.

We are allowing too many whack jobs to roam freely.

if you are not tied to workplace responsibilities and are free to see what wonders the streets of your community day after day you would be lobbying in DC. it's rather incredible how many adults are in need of supervision. there are mentally ill, substance abusers and recidivists all over the streets of America. if more people really knew what/who was walking past them on a crowded sidewalk or in a busy mall their next trip would require careful consideration.


What do you propose as a solution to this? How do you find, evaluate, and remove these people from society in order to give them treatment against their will? Then how do you keep tabs on them 24/7? There is a guy in my gf's complex that is literally bananas. He flooded his apartment and locked himself in and confronted me one day yelling about some fictitious person that he has a restraining order against that he thinks lives in my gf's apartment. He has to check in with a guardian every so often and take his meds, of which sometimes he skips out on and they are unable to locate the guy. The guy is unstable and who is to say what he is capable of. All I know is that he scares me well enough and that if he wanted to do something and he just snapped he would. You cannot eliminate mental health issues.
 
2012-12-17 03:05:11 PM

Vectron: Before you lock up all the preppers in your Fema camps, I hope you will give some thought to first locking up black males.

If you are really upset about gun violence and want to do something about it take a look at black majority communities.


What a thoughtfull and totally non-racist comment. Get back to me when all those street thugs that haunt your dreams engage in mass shootings of innocents. Shootings are high in those communities because they tend to t be the economically poorest and usually the worst-policed which makes them the place where the highly lucrative drug trade takes place. . An illegal activity worth that much money virtually gurantees violence, as it has since the days of prohibition. But ost of those that get got were "in the game" themselves, not 5-year old school children. That's pretty exclusively the domain of white males (and one very disturbed girl Bob Geldoff wrote a song about)
 
2012-12-17 03:06:20 PM
Old adage: "You breed thoroughbreds, you get thoroughbreds; you breed jackasses, you get jackasses.

/You breed nuts, you get nuts!
 
2012-12-17 03:08:21 PM

clane: We should pressure congress to outlaw killing people!!


Do you read at a 5th grade level too, or is it strictly just a logical reasoning handicap?
 
2012-12-17 03:08:22 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: PunGent: My current understanding is he didn't shoot up a random classroom, he shot up HER classroom...although, now that I think about it, was she out sick that day? Not sure on the timing angle. Anyway, afaik, the psychological angle appears to be "she was a teacher, she loved students more than me, I'll show her".

She wasn't a teacher, no one knows (yet) why he went to the school.


Oh...either I missed that, or I'm a news cycle behind. Carry on.
 
2012-12-17 03:08:35 PM

pedrop357: Rent Party: I know you keep yours under your pillow, which means you are exactly the kind of irresponsible gun owner that gives the rest of us a bad name.

I know people who do that. Enlighten us to why that's a bad thing.


Because your kids can come in and get it, and shoot their little sister. Because under your pillow is not positive control of the weapon. Because it leads to exactly the same kind of unauthorized access to the weapon that I am talking about.
 
2012-12-17 03:09:21 PM

GCD: Hell, if I had a weapon, I could even actually do something productive and beneficial, like HUNT for my food.


uploads.neatorama.com
 
2012-12-17 03:10:02 PM

Englebert Slaptyback:
[2] Enlisted personnel salute officers. Officers salute other officers of greater rank than themselves. No one salutes enlisted personnel. Salutes are not required when personnel are in civilian attire.


A salute is an exchange initiated by the lower ranking member. Officers are just as required to return an enlisted salute as the enlisted are to initiate it.
 
2012-12-17 03:10:54 PM

probesport: JRoo: probesport: "Mrs Lanza, 52, was a 'prepper' - so called because they are preparing for a breakdown in civilized society - who apparently became obsessed with guns and taught Adam and his older brother, Ryan, how to shoot, even taking them to local ranges."

Oh my what a horrible, horrible person. She even took them to shooting ranges? Why not puppy farms with bounce houses?

Why not puppy farms with bounce houses?

Maybe he would rather have gone there but she wouldn't take him and made him learn how to be an efficient killer instead.

I think most people are pretty crazy until they reach about their upper twenties.

Crazy raises crazy, I was in my career and just bought a house at 20 with little to no crazy. Teaching kids how to plink paper targets does not make them efficient killers anymore than teaching someone how to cut a steak makes them a coroner.


I love how all the gun nuts keep using the term plink. Is that the sound of a .223 round tearing a hole in the skull of a 6-year-old child?
 
2012-12-17 03:11:00 PM

Generation_D: Coco LaFemme: Gee, who would have thought that being a paranoid survivalist stockpiling guns with a mentally disturbed child in the house would end up being a really stupid idea. I wish this woman wasn't dead because if her son hadn't shot her first, I'd be demanding her ass be put on trial for all 26 dead bodies her son racked up. She helped create the monster, she should have been made to pay for it.

This 1000x times this.

The whole media "tragedy" angle is missing one fundamental fact: This family spawned this effed up asswit kid, and probably fought to keep him out of treatment or custody. Every damn one of them should be held accountable. But since justice happened to the mom, I guess we can start with the Ernst and Young VP dad. The one dumping the mom in 2009, the same year she quit her job to homeschool lil shooter Adam.


It's also missing the fundamental fact that mental health professionals have a spotty, questionable record in dealing with mental health. We all want to believe that we can hand our troubled members of society over to some professional to fix them, but that is wishful thinking at best.
 
2012-12-17 03:11:02 PM
Thanks to those of you who contributed to the discussion of what constitutes a "well regulated militia." I got some good links and good info.
Except for Spare Me, who called me a dork.
 
2012-12-17 03:11:50 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: maybe the press can stop covering stupid stories like the Mayan apocalypse.

get rid of shows like the Walking Dead too while you are at it.


I think this is the first time I have ever agreed with you.
 
2012-12-17 03:11:59 PM

Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: I love how all the gun nuts keep using the term plink. Is that the sound of a .223 round tearing a hole in the skull of a 6-year-old child?


Is the sound "hurr durr" the one made when you tried to come up with a rational thought?
 
2012-12-17 03:12:10 PM

Phineas: Wolf_blitzer

Just callin 'em as I sees 'em. This thread (and the article) contain mostly liberals who confuse the tools used to perpetrate the crime with the mental condition of the people who perpetrate them. This kid could've just as easily driven a truck through the side of the building and crushed a classroom. In fact, that would've been easier. But yeah, its easier to blame guns.

I figured you liberals would enjoy knowing how I see you, as hand-wringing hens that flock together and come to irrational conclusions based on the facts at hand. And if there's something you can't quite grasp, you check with other liberals to find out what it is you should be thinking.


Sure he could have used a truck, but he didn't. He used guns. The guy at the Batman movie could have used a tuck too, but what did he use...oh yeah, guns.

As a matter of fact, just how many cases have there been of the willful use of a vehicle for spree killing? I'll wait.

Now that you've come up with a no doubt copious list, I'll come up with a list of spree killings that use guns, who's list will be longer?

I'm a liberal, but I don't want to take anybody's guns. But the idea that guns somehow make us safer is just plain derpy.
 
2012-12-17 03:12:13 PM
Turns out she misidentified the threat.
 
2012-12-17 03:12:17 PM

Trivia Jockey: bluefoxicy: Miltia, n.: A military force of civilians to supplement a regular army in an emergency.

OK, let's go with this then...if this doesn't mean National Guard, what does it mean in today's context? I don't see the Court's reasoning that the 2nd Amendment applies to all citizens gels well with your defitition of militia. Not unless you can confidently state that all 300 million of this country's citizens are part of a "military force" that supplements the U.S. armed forces. I'm a citizen, and I'm certainly not part of a military force supplementing the Army.


Again, ahem:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/311
 
2012-12-17 03:14:14 PM

pedrop357: mayIFark: Do you ride your bullet to work? You need car as an essential part of your life. One, in today's society, only needs guns to compensate for that small something of theirs.

Aside from this weird obsession that gun controllers have with penises, you didn't really address my point.

Cars 'kill' by accident more people then guns 'kill' on purpose, yet cars are far more regulated and we're supposed to believe that even more regulation will cause gun deaths to drop. Again, it really too bad that (supposedly) more regulated cars aren't used as safely as the (again supposedly) less regulated guns. Just imagine if cars killed as many people on purpose and as many people on accident as guns. We'd have at least 20,000 or so fewer deaths each year.


Well, first off, it is "than" not "then". Makes it harder to follow your logic, not that I could still see it. I think what you are trying to say is, because regulated cars causes accidents, regulating guns will do nothing (aka, regulations do not work). Two things: 1) Why regulate the nuclear bombs then? 2) What do you suggest? Just because we let cars on the street does not mean we have to keep guns as well. For the last time, guns do not have an essential purpose, cars do. Without the regulations cars would kill even more people. If you impose regulations on guns, it will kill less people.

/I might have completely missed your point.
 
2012-12-17 03:14:45 PM

farkingnotworking: bluefoxicy: Miltia, n.: A military force of civilians to supplement a regular army in an emergency.

This is the definition as explained to me in the 90s in grade school.

Ah, well if Mr. Eversfield from third period said so, I guess we can all turn off the lights and go home! Problem solved, everyone!


Point on public schools, but you could punch the definition into Google or ask Merriam-Webster. The fact that this occurred two decades ago is important for historical reasons--if the meaning of "militia" in 1780 was "armed civilians" but in 2008 was "commissioned armed forces," then the interpretation at the time would differ. Likewise the opposite, if the definition of "militia" had been updated to its current form. Thus the meaning of the law depends on the historical meaning. I can give primary source citation--myself--back to the 90s.
 
2012-12-17 03:15:45 PM
meatsack_01:arm the teachers and train them like navy seals.jpg [causes-prod.caudn.com image 640x636]


Oh good idea, let's spend billions (maybe even trillions?) arming and training teachers perpetually. Oh but you also want massive budget cuts because ... socialism?

Seriously, there's no talking to some of these people. They just can't hold more than 1 thought in their head at once.
 
2012-12-17 03:15:46 PM

clane: El_Frijole_Blanco: So a Teabagger then

===============
My god what you circle jerk idiots know about the Tea Party and what it stands for is absolutely ZERO. Do you ever stop to read anything or do you just watch Bill Maher and Michael Moore for your news?

duuu duuu tea bagger duu duuu fox news duuu duuu glenn beck....


To be fair, the Tea Party brings a lot of that on themselves.

Consider that the ORIGINAL Tea Party was protesting LOWER taxes, for one thing...

/Why yes, my country was founded by smugglers, what of it?
 
2012-12-17 03:18:48 PM

bluefoxicy: farkingnotworking: bluefoxicy: Miltia, n.: A military force of civilians to supplement a regular army in an emergency.

This is the definition as explained to me in the 90s in grade school.

Ah, well if Mr. Eversfield from third period said so, I guess we can all turn off the lights and go home! Problem solved, everyone!

Point on public schools, but you could punch the definition into Google or ask Merriam-Webster. The fact that this occurred two decades ago is important for historical reasons--if the meaning of "militia" in 1780 was "armed civilians" but in 2008 was "commissioned armed forces," then the interpretation at the time would differ. Likewise the opposite, if the definition of "militia" had been updated to its current form. Thus the meaning of the law depends on the historical meaning. I can give primary source citation--myself--back to the 90s.


But it wasn't "armed civilians" in 1780. It was "civilians drafted to be part of a governmentally controlled military force." In other words, not career soldiers, but soldiers drafted temporarily. In other words, the Framers didn't think it was important to put a gun in all civilians hands. They thought arming civilians should be legal, when it was done as part of a regulated force. I agree that meanings chance, but let's just be clear on what the meaning was originally when the authors wrote it.
 
2012-12-17 03:18:57 PM

probesport: Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: I love how all the gun nuts keep using the term plink. Is that the sound of a .223 round tearing a hole in the skull of a 6-year-old child?

Is the sound "hurr durr" the one made when you tried to come up with a rational thought?


No that is the sound a 4 cylinder Mazda makes when a loser puts a huge muffler on it so that he can pretend it is a racecar.
 
2012-12-17 03:19:19 PM

NightOwl2255: Abe Vigoda's Ghost: Agree with him or not, he's explaining his position in a clear and rational way.

Really? He's explained that the sole purpose of a gun is to kill in a clear and rational way?


When you stop and think about it; it pretty much is the sole purpose of a gun.

Some people may use them for recreational purposes, but at the end of the day, they are primarily a weapon that's designed to kill its target.
 
2012-12-17 03:19:40 PM

PunGent: Again, ahem:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/311


Either way, it's clearly not "all U.S. citizens".
 
2012-12-17 03:20:05 PM
"Meanings change." "Change," I meant to say earlier. Not "meanings chance." Ugh.
 
2012-12-17 03:20:11 PM
i46.tinypic.com
 
2012-12-17 03:20:45 PM

kevinfra: Phineas: Wolf_blitzer

Just callin 'em as I sees 'em. This thread (and the article) contain mostly liberals who confuse the tools used to perpetrate the crime with the mental condition of the people who perpetrate them. This kid could've just as easily driven a truck through the side of the building and crushed a classroom. In fact, that would've been easier. But yeah, its easier to blame guns.

I figured you liberals would enjoy knowing how I see you, as hand-wringing hens that flock together and come to irrational conclusions based on the facts at hand. And if there's something you can't quite grasp, you check with other liberals to find out what it is you should be thinking.

Sure he could have used a truck, but he didn't. He used guns. The guy at the Batman movie could have used a tuck too, but what did he use...oh yeah, guns.

As a matter of fact, just how many cases have there been of the willful use of a vehicle for spree killing? I'll wait.

Now that you've come up with a no doubt copious list, I'll come up with a list of spree killings that use guns, who's list will be longer?

I'm a liberal, but I don't want to take anybody's guns. But the idea that guns somehow make us safer is just plain derpy.


I'll add that, driving a car into a building like that would not work the same way it works in the movies. Most school buildings are brick-made with steel frames. You would not be able to do 1/4th of the damage with a truck.
 
2012-12-17 03:20:49 PM

Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: probesport: Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: I love how all the gun nuts keep using the term plink. Is that the sound of a .223 round tearing a hole in the skull of a 6-year-old child?

Is the sound "hurr durr" the one made when you tried to come up with a rational thought?

No that is the sound a 4 cylinder Mazda makes when a loser puts a huge muffler on it so that he can pretend it is a racecar.


I think I love you.
 
2012-12-17 03:21:01 PM

Thunderpipes: Further left we go, the worse society gets.


If Obama and Boehner had struck a deal to cut Social Security sooner, this wouldn't have happened.
 
2012-12-17 03:21:19 PM

tenpoundsofcheese: People claim that an organization like the NRA is partly responsible even though they are promoting gun safety, training, etc. but somehow other things that have contributed to our culture of violence - the media, gets a complete pass.


That's an excellent point -- I see what you are saying now.

Although, I'd point less of a finger at zombies and Ah-nold and such, and more of a finger at the news media. When did feasting on barely cooling dead carcasses start qualifying as journalism? And, why *is* it okay for 'reporters' to shove microphones into the faces of scarred little children to get every little titillating, salacious detail? I can see where for someone mentally imbalanced who is that kind of angry and wants to be heard why this kind of thing looks attractive. Everybody's paying attention now, aren't they?

Also, the correct answer to the question, "Can I interview your elementary school kid to drag out some violence porn for the salivating masses to chew on?" should indeed be 'EAD'. When did it become okay for parents to feed their scared and scarred children to the beast?
 
2012-12-17 03:22:49 PM

Trivia Jockey: OK, let's go with this then...if this doesn't mean National Guard, what does it mean in today's context? I don't see the Court's reasoning that the 2nd Amendment applies to all citizens gels well with your defitition of militia. Not unless you can confidently state that all 300 million of this country's citizens are part of a "military force" that supplements the U.S. armed forces. I'm a citizen, and I'm certainly not part of a military force supplementing the Army.


Actually, that's exactly what I just said. The National Guard is not a civilian force; a Militia is a civilian force. Essentially a Militia is what happens when some guy mounted on horseback comes racing into town and shouts, "Hey you farkers! The British are coming and they brought 5000 men and we only brought 500 and they're all dead! Better get your guns or get as far away as you can!" and there's 80,000 people in your city and half of them have guns.

We tried. We failed. We're sending re-enforcements. They probably won't get here before you're invaded so.. good luck.

This is how the country was forged. Don't forget that we broke off from a tyranny that was damned determined to keep us. They kept invading our country long after we told them to shove it. Recognizing the very real threat of invasion (and many argue, the very real threat of your own government becoming a tyranny), the need for a well-armed civilian population was assumed.

Today we essentially argue on the basis that the Militia supports the police force by way of defense of self and neighbor from threat to life and limb. That's what it means when someone says the police will not respond in 3 seconds. It means they intend to take action up to and including lethal action if someone threatens them or their neighbor.
 
2012-12-17 03:23:23 PM
And for those of you who are saying the teachers need to be armed, what happened when a teacher is about to get fired, or harassed by the class and decides to take it on the class? And with the pay level republicans want them to be on, they might even slap for no reason. Who protects the students then from the teacher? Arm the 5 year old?
 
2012-12-17 03:23:29 PM

GQueue: Launch Code: It takes a human to commit the act. Do you blame the alcohol or the car for a drunk driving death? Of course the super libtard will reflect on soldiers using guns in battle. Are you then calling the people that defend us murderers?
Wake up leftys, evil people do evil things! Don't blame the tool for the destruction

The point of gun control for things like the AR-15 isn't that someone can't kill someone. If someone is determined to kill a person there's plenty of ways they can do it without a gun. However, it's really really really hard for someone to kill 26 people in one place without certain types of guns. The other ways you can do it? All heavily restricted if not flat-out illegal.

Not to point out too much of your derp but I'm pretty sure that all ways you kill 26 people are illegal, I mean, killing is illegal right? Yes, there are a billion other ways... I'm surprised more people haven't used them at this point and I'm thankful they haven't!

/Things like Tannerite (easy to make and a legal material) would be FAR FAR more effective.
 
2012-12-17 03:23:39 PM

Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: probesport: Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: I love how all the gun nuts keep using the term plink. Is that the sound of a .223 round tearing a hole in the skull of a 6-year-old child?

Is the sound "hurr durr" the one made when you tried to come up with a rational thought?

No that is the sound a 4 cylinder Mazda makes when a loser puts a huge muffler on it so that he can pretend it is a racecar.


That's more of a farting or braaaaap sound. Not too good with associations are you?
 
2012-12-17 03:23:53 PM

Trivia Jockey: bluefoxicy: Miltia, n.: A military force of civilians to supplement a regular army in an emergency.

OK, let's go with this then...if this doesn't mean National Guard, what does it mean in today's context? I don't see the Court's reasoning that the 2nd Amendment applies to all citizens gels well with your defitition of militia. Not unless you can confidently state that all 300 million of this country's citizens are part of a "military force" that supplements the U.S. armed forces. I'm a citizen, and I'm certainly not part of a military force supplementing the Army.


The militia argument is a red herring. Even if you read the 2nd in the most expansive possible way, as an individual right guaranteed to everybody, you still have this bit of law that applies to ALL our rights: namely that the exercise of any right is lawfully subject to reasonable restrictions on "time, place and Manner" of exercising that right, where such restrictions support a compelling governmental interest and are the least restrictive way to vindicate that interest.

Keeping people from being randomly murderer is obviously a very compleeling interests so restriction on guns desgigned to make that hppen would probably pass constitutional muster
 
2012-12-17 03:25:03 PM

Launch Code: Don't blame the tool for the destruction.


No one's blaming you, dude.
 
2012-12-17 03:25:15 PM

NightOwl2255: As she laid there in bed with her son pointing a rifle at her, I wonder what the last thing that went through her mind was.


"Abortion might have been a better idea. Damn! Too late."
 
2012-12-17 03:25:57 PM

KellyX:
KellyX's Liberal Agenda for 12/17/2012:

1. Get up

2. Piss

3. Brush teeth (remember to wash hands first!!)

4. Put clothes on

5. Go to work (ughhh again?)

6. Work

7. Come home...

8. Play WoW

9. Go to bed (don't forget to feed the cat or she'll sleep on your face!!!)



Well crap.

All this time I thought I was a Conservative, and it turns out I have the same agenda as a Liberal.
 
2012-12-17 03:28:30 PM

clane: El_Frijole_Blanco: So a Teabagger then

===============
My god what you circle jerk idiots know about the Tea Party and what it stands for is absolutely ZERO. Do you ever stop to read anything or do you just watch Bill Maher and Michael Moore for your news?

duuu duuu tea bagger duu duuu fox news duuu duuu glenn beck....



Give it up. This is Fark, A hive of liberal villiany. Like most libbys, they don't assign personal responsibility, they'd rather blame an inanimate obeject for evil in the world.
 
2012-12-17 03:28:52 PM

bluefoxicy: Oh, frame. Never mind. Frame is wood, and the screws sink deep and have good bite; the dead bolt is a nice, deep deadbolt set securely and you have to take out a lot of wood to rip that part of the door out.

It also helps to have secondary deadbolts that go into the floor.


That would do it.

A couple of good kicks may not break a door, but it will usually take it off the frame.

Your house seems to have a door that a submarine would admire.
 
2012-12-17 03:31:41 PM

Magorn: Trivia Jockey: bluefoxicy: Miltia, n.: A military force of civilians to supplement a regular army in an emergency.

OK, let's go with this then...if this doesn't mean National Guard, what does it mean in today's context? I don't see the Court's reasoning that the 2nd Amendment applies to all citizens gels well with your defitition of militia. Not unless you can confidently state that all 300 million of this country's citizens are part of a "military force" that supplements the U.S. armed forces. I'm a citizen, and I'm certainly not part of a military force supplementing the Army.

The militia argument is a red herring. Even if you read the 2nd in the most expansive possible way, as an individual right guaranteed to everybody, you still have this bit of law that applies to ALL our rights: namely that the exercise of any right is lawfully subject to reasonable restrictions on "time, place and Manner" of exercising that right, where such restrictions support a compelling governmental interest and are the least restrictive way to vindicate that interest.

Keeping people from being randomly murderer is obviously a very compleeling interests so restriction on guns desgigned to make that hppen would probably pass constitutional muster


Not to mention, restricting some guns does not restrict your ability to own *a* gun, meaning the 2nd amendment is still upheld. I'd like to see revolvers only, shotguns, and low capacity bolt and lever action hunting rifles. You'd still be able to hunt any game, protect your home and target shoot, but killing sprees would most likely have lower body counts.
 
2012-12-17 03:32:03 PM

Thunderpipes: Further left we go, the worse society gets.


Because Scandinavia and Western Europe is a hellhole and Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Egypt are veritable paradises.
 
2012-12-17 03:32:11 PM

bluefoxicy: Trivia Jockey: OK, let's go with this then...if this doesn't mean National Guard, what does it mean in today's context? I don't see the Court's reasoning that the 2nd Amendment applies to all citizens gels well with your defitition of militia. Not unless you can confidently state that all 300 million of this country's citizens are part of a "military force" that supplements the U.S. armed forces. I'm a citizen, and I'm certainly not part of a military force supplementing the Army.

Actually, that's exactly what I just said. The National Guard is not a civilian force; a Militia is a civilian force. Essentially a Militia is what happens when some guy mounted on horseback comes racing into town and shouts, "Hey you farkers! The British are coming and they brought 5000 men and we only brought 500 and they're all dead! Better get your guns or get as far away as you can!" and there's 80,000 people in your city and half of them have guns.

We tried. We failed. We're sending re-enforcements. They probably won't get here before you're invaded so.. good luck.

This is how the country was forged. Don't forget that we broke off from a tyranny that was damned determined to keep us. They kept invading our country long after we told them to shove it. Recognizing the very real threat of invasion (and many argue, the very real threat of your own government becoming a tyranny), the need for a well-armed civilian population was assumed.


No, no that isn't what it meant. You're just ignoring all the specific citations and facts offered to you in previous posts and replacing them with dopey fantasies of American revolutionary authenticity. Read the farking definitions.
 
2012-12-17 03:32:14 PM

farkingnotworking: No no, you were right the first time, Trivia. In the 18th century it meant a governmentally regulated armed force. Here are the representative entries from the Oxford English Dictionary for "militia.":

1706 Phillips's New World of Words (ed. 6) , "Militia," a certain Number of the Inhabitants of the City and Country formed into Regular Bodies, and train'd up in the Art of War, for the Defence and Security of the Kingdom.

1776 A. Smith Inq. Wealth of Nations II. v. i. 300 It [sc. the state] may..oblige either all the citizens of the military age, or a certain number of them, to join in some measure the trade of a soldier to whatever other trade or profession they may happen to carry on... Its military force is [then] said to consist in a militia.

1777 W. Heath in J. Sparks Corr. Amer. Revol. (1853) I. 329 Our troops are all militia, and, although perhaps as good as any militia, yet they are not disciplined.



Interesting historical definitions.

The second and third are actually iffy. The second in particular basically says that people are obligated to go through JROTC training--military training without military conscription. That means they're citizens, they're trained to be soldiers, but they are not enlisted soldiers. They have joined in the trade of a soldier--they've learned to fight in war.

The third doesn't describe the meaning of militia. It just states that the soldiers are militia, and not disciplined. If they're not disciplined, we may infer that they are hillbillies collected from their homes, but that is a reaching assumption. What is obvious is they are not trained, therefor they were not enlisted in a time when the need for soldiers was sufficiently smaller than the supply of soldiers to allow for adequate training--that is, they weren't enlisted, sent to basic training, and then deployed. They may be conscripted, or volunteers from the citizenry not conscripted into enlistment; and really, sudden conscription is a grey area--"You're in the army now, that makes you military. Let's go, the British are just over that hill." What? I wasn't in the army 5 minutes ago, does that make me a citizen or a part of the standing enlisted military?

The first is a stretch. It's the definition of a standing military. Like the third, it lacks an explicit specification that these people are enlisted into service or not--knights are enlisted into service, as they remain in barracks and are in the castle and assigned duty; and even those not assigned duty are explicitly on call. It would still, however, be a stretch to make that assumption: this account more indicates a standing, enlisted military force; while the last obviously shows a collection of citizenry which may or may not have been suddenly conscripted into enlistment, but which was nonmilitary before.

So now we have a grey area. It seems the definition was historically vague, and potentially variable. That calls the intended meaning into question. The constitution does, however, explicitly proscribe the standing Military of the United States.
 
2012-12-17 03:32:21 PM

bluefoxicy: Today we essentially argue on the basis that the Militia supports the police force by way of defense of self and neighbor from threat to life and limb. That's what it means when someone says the police will not respond in 3 seconds. It means they intend to take action up to and including lethal action if someone threatens them or their neighbor.


I still can't tell if you believe that every man, woman and child is part of the "militia" and therefore is entitled by the 2nd Amendment to have guns. I'm talking about now, the present. Are we all part of the militia?
 
drp
2012-12-17 03:33:26 PM

BizarreMan: To those people calling his mother out on not having a gun safe. There is nothing to say she didn't have one. She may have had trigger locks on them. But a 20 year old who lives in the house with her, who has gone to the gun range with her, will most likely know the combination to the safe and where the trigger lock key is.


It doesn't matter. The only gun safes that can stop a person with a screwdriver and a crowbar cost THOUSANDS of dollars.

99% of gun safes are better termed "residential security containers" ... they're made with 12 or 14 ga steel. They keep out children and people with less than 3 minutes to spend breaking in.
 
2012-12-17 03:33:45 PM

PunGent: JRoo: NightOwl2255: GCD: Maybe I just think differently, but odds are if I found myself in that kind of situation, I would attempt to exhaust all possible avenues of finding food before I went batshiat crazy robbing my neighbors of their food supplies at gunpoint.

Hell, if I had a weapon, I could even actually do something productive and beneficial, like HUNT for my food.

Yeah, but when your armed batshiat crazy neighbor comes for what little you have left, you better hope you have more to stop him than fond memories.

In my pretend fantasies everyone is a bunny rabbit.

Fourth post down:

http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=48999


Nice.
 
2012-12-17 03:34:17 PM

Magorn: The militia argument is a red herring


I disagree. Well, I disagree in the sense that I think the S. Ct. improperly turned it into a red herring. As the law currently stands, it's not an important part of the meaning and import of the amendment. I just think it ought to be.
 
2012-12-17 03:34:34 PM

utahraptor2: If a teacher would have been armed, he wouldn't have gotten very far.


perhaps you are right.... until of course one day you hear in the news of a teacher that goes on some crazy rampage himself and kills 40 students in his school.
 
2012-12-17 03:34:39 PM

Graffito: It's also missing the fundamental fact that mental health professionals have a spotty, questionable record in dealing with mental health. We all want to believe that we can hand our troubled members of society over to some professional to fix them, but that is wishful thinking at best.


QFT. I've known a number of mental health professionals. Some of them are quite good, and counseling and therapy can be a lifesaver for some people. And some of them suck. They are the sort of authority figures, like medical doctors, where the average person just trusts them to "fix" whatever's wrong, and get it right. And they often don't get it right. Sometimes because they're not that good, and sometimes just because the human mind is a weird thing, and isn't predictable.

In addition, therapists, even very good ones, are not miracle workers. They can't treat someone who doesn't want help, who believes that there's nothing wrong with them. And the sort of crazies who shoot up public places are usually those types of people. What are we supposed to do--lock them up by force and drug them? for how long? Just put them in a warehouse for life?

When my psycho ex was going to shoot me and our son, he had two very good PhDs monitoring him--because they knew he was like that. They warned me---to move out of town. There really wasn't anything else they could do, and to one guy's credit, he really tried. But if you're dealing with an angry, seriously nutty individual, the last thing you do is tell them that they're a nutcase and should be institutionalized. it's a good way to get shot too.
 
2012-12-17 03:35:12 PM

Trivia Jockey: bluefoxicy: Today we essentially argue on the basis that the Militia supports the police force by way of defense of self and neighbor from threat to life and limb. That's what it means when someone says the police will not respond in 3 seconds. It means they intend to take action up to and including lethal action if someone threatens them or their neighbor.

I still can't tell if you believe that every man, woman and child is part of the "militia" and therefore is entitled by the 2nd Amendment to have guns. I'm talking about now, the present. Are we all part of the militia?


I can name a few who aren't: everyone in my immediate family, providing the effective counter-example rendering the argument false. It also happens to be rather stupid.
 
2012-12-17 03:37:10 PM

Carn: It also happens to be rather stupid.


I agree. It's why I think the S. Ct. got this one wrong. And their credibility is not bolstered by the fact the majority opinion was written by Scalia, who is a lunatic.
 
2012-12-17 03:38:23 PM

Wolf_Blitzer: Because my actual choice is a trained police force, democratically answerable to me and my fellow citizens. This isn't the Wild West anymore.


It's also not some magical fantasy world.
 
2012-12-17 03:39:35 PM

farkingnotworking: How about a publicly accessible database of gun ownership as part of gun reform? Everyone should get to know who owns what. And if you are proud of your guns, you shouldn't have a problem with this. It's like keeping your muscle car in the driveway.


That makes a good shopping list for the gangs in our area (stealing and running them to Mexico). Terrible idea! It's like saying "I have these 100 pieces of quality diamond/gold/platinum jewelry secured in a crappy safe, please come steal at {insert address}".
 
2012-12-17 03:39:52 PM

Trivia Jockey: I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. But if you're saying that the "militia" was every person in the United States, I would disagree with you. Some contemporary legal scholars opine (and I agree) that the "militia" is the equivalent to today's National Guard. So no, I'm not trying to "redefine" anything or re-interpert anything, except to the extent that I think the Heller decision was an incorrect interpretation of the militia clause of the 2nd Amendment. I don't think it was merely an 'example', I think the phrase was inserted purposefully to indicate that the citizenry that happened to be part of the milita would be entited to bear arms, but not everyone is the "militia".


Considering the National Guard is a federalized force, it cannot be the state-level or local-level militia discussed by the 2nd Amendment. In nature, it is closer to the standing army the 2nd exists to remedy.
 
2012-12-17 03:41:15 PM

bluefoxicy: farkingnotworking: No no, you were right the first time, Trivia. In the 18th century it meant a governmentally regulated armed force. Here are the representative entries from the Oxford English Dictionary for "militia.":

1706 Phillips's New World of Words (ed. 6) , "Militia," a certain Number of the Inhabitants of the City and Country formed into Regular Bodies, and train'd up in the Art of War, for the Defence and Security of the Kingdom.

1776 A. Smith Inq. Wealth of Nat