theorellior: dittybopper: Same with the bison: They weren't wiped out because it was fun to hunt them, they were wiped out because their meat and hides were valuable, and it had a side benefit of screwing over the Plains Indians.LOL WUT. You of all people should know about the wholesale slaughter of buffalo from railway cars for nothing more than horns and hides, if even that. It was sport hunting at its most wasteful.
dittybopper: No, it wasn't about sport hunting. It was unregulated market hunting.
dittybopper: Sport hunting is about hunting because you enjoy it, not wholesale slaughter in the most inexpensive way possible
theorellior: dittybopper: No, it wasn't about sport hunting. It was unregulated market hunting.It was both. "Hunting by rail" was basically a rolling shooting gallery for Eastern dandies. And the sport hunters on those trains didn't take the bones or the meat. They just gunned 'em down and, if the train even stopped, took the head and hides for their wall.
Skarekrough: PETA's role is largely to be unreasonable and garner press in order to raise awareness and cause discussion.
dittybopper: The problem with your statement is you are using loaded language like "canned hunt" in an attempt to divide hunters.
theorellior: I don't understand blowing away birds released from cages. It puts paid to the concept of the "romance" of hunting. It sounds like as decadent an action as you're gonna get, paying big money to blow away tame animals on a lark. It sounds like not-so-sublimated bloodlust, packaged neatly and conveniently.
dittybopper: Like I said, all kinds of valid reasons why one might chose to do that. If my circumstances were different, I'd probably do it myself.
uttertosh: Richard C Stanford: First, First! Oh my god my life is complete. I'm first on a thread. Ahhhhhhhahhahahahahaha!!!!!I feel..... Stupid.Who ARE you?
dittybopper: yves0010: know that, I meant the idea that they only want it as a trophy and leave the rest of the animal to waste. I have heard a few hunters that do this over at my local hunting store. Hunt a buck for its horns and not use the meat. Damn it, deer is so good!Well, from a "preservation of the species" standpoint, one is no worse than the other.I don't like the "I eat it, so it's OK" argument, because many species were hunted into extinction by subsistence hunting.You see, there are 3 main kinds of hunting:1. Subsistence hunting. This is hunting for food, and for other uses like shelter and the like, without an economic motive.2. Market hunting. This is hunting so that you can sell the meat, or the hide, or the tusks, or whatever, for profit.3. Sport hunting. This is hunting primarily for enjoyment. You may eat what you kill, but not necessarily.Of the 3 main kinds of hunting, the only one that hasn't resulted in extinctions is sport hunting. That's because sport hunters want to keep on hunting, and if you wipe out all the game, you can't hunt anymore. It was unregulated market and subsistence hunting in the early US that led to the population of Whitetail deer being so low in 1900. Same with the bison: They weren't wiped out because it was fun to hunt them, they were wiped out because their meat and hides were valuable, and it had a side benefit of screwing over the Plains Indians. Similarly with the tiger: To the extent that hunting was a problem, it wasn't *SPORT* hunters. Chauncy Uppercrust sitting on a howdah with a double rifle wasn't responsible for their decline in India. It was locals hunting them to protect themselves and their livestock (subsistence hunting, albeit one step removed), and to sell their hides and other parts to fashion models and flaccid Chinese men (market hunting).Fact is, regulated sport hunting almost always results in an *INCREASE* in targeted game, not a decrease. At least, that's been the experience here ...
foxtail: No species in the history of life has EVER been made extinct by either sport or subsistinance hunting.
Glitchwerks: You know, if all the apex predators hadn't been killed off, this wouldn't have been a problem in the first place.
Swoop1809: My girlfriend's dad didnt get a deer this year, which is very sad news because that means I wont be getting any deer jerky for Christmas :(And as someone who lived in rural Ohio for most of my life, I wish there werent so many deer here. When it's not hunting season you hit them with your car. When it is hunting season the state fills up with assholes from out of state who hunt dangerously on other people's land. F those guys.
foxtail: This is of course my and a few other's opinion. There is no way to conclusively prove either side.
SewerSquirrels: dittybopper: yves0010: DubyaHater: Glitchwerks: You know, if all the apex predators hadn't been killed off, this wouldn't have been a problem in the first place.But we need the fur for rugs and animal heads to hang on the wall. I need people to see what a man I am for hunting a wolf/panther/etc with a rifle and scope.I know many hunters who do not hunt with a gun but rather use a bow. And they use the entire animal. Not just the head and fur. But they use the meat to eat. Not all hunters do trophy hunting.Actually, trophy hunting is more ecologically defensible than all the other forms of hunting.The guy who won't shoot less than an 8-pointer because "It's too small" likely has a better idea of how balanced the environment he hunts in is than the guy who shoots the first legal deer to cross his path on opening day so he can fill his freezer.I don't hunt because, irony being what it is, I suspect that I'd eventually shoot Dick Cheney in the face, but from my loose understanding of hunting in MN, they only offer a limited number of tags by region depending on the current population of critters in that region.So it doesn't really matter if you are filling your freezer or pissing your spouse off with a new decoration for the living room, hunting isn't going to result in scorched earth of the critter population either way.Wouldn't the trophy hunters over time eliminate the best genes in the deer population?
Spade: Glitchwerks: You know, if all the apex predators hadn't been killed off, this wouldn't have been a problem in the first place.I totally agree that we should bring wolves, bears, and mountain lions back to suburban areas of the east coast.
LeftOfLiberal: Hunter who go out for trophies are assholes who do nothing but harm.
HeadLever: I see no problem with that.
Nogale: Isn't PETA classed as a terror organization? I'd like to start a viral campaign alerting people to the fact that if they donate to PETA, they will be on record as donating to a terrorist group. Forever. The Internet never forgets.Where do they get their funds from?
whatshisname: foxtail: No species in the history of life has EVER been made extinct by either sport or subsistinance hunting.Dodos, Great Auks, most of the giant tortoises from the islands in the Indian Ocean?
RubberBandMan: Passenger pigeons, comment...............
foxtail: That is bullshiat. No species in the history of life has EVER been made extinct by either sport or subsistinance hunting. The ONLY type of hunting that has ever made a species extinct is market hunting.
whatshisname: HeadLever: I see no problem with that.I see a problem with someone who wants to kill the most magnificent creatures so they can cut off their heads and stick them on their wall. But that's just me, I guess.
HeadLever: Most of the time when your scenario happens, it is from poachers that don't want to hang around long enough to process the meat. I think that we all have issues with that.
whatshisname: Yeah, I'm sure the great white hunters are leaving Africa with a plane load of elephant meat.
HeadLever: whatshisname: Yeah, I'm sure the great white hunters are leaving Africa with a plane load of elephant meat.Oh so we are moving from a generalized 'tropy hunter' to a safari hunter? Those goalpost heavy?
whatshisname: HeadLever: whatshisname: Yeah, I'm sure the great white hunters are leaving Africa with a plane load of elephant meat.Oh so we are moving from a generalized 'tropy hunter' to a safari hunter? Those goalpost heavy?What's the difference? (Other than disposable income.)
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