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(Den Of Geek)   The problem with Homeland, the show increasingly written by an Excel spreadsheet   (denofgeek.com) divider line 64
    More: Interesting, homeland, Damian Lewis, Claire Danes, speed dial, American television, television shows, Israel Defense Forces, Emmy Awards  
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5620 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 17 Dec 2012 at 9:29 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-12-17 09:22:25 AM
Author is a dick. Well, subby is too, just because that's what subbys are.

If they had waited to watch last night's finale they would have seen one of the best season finale's ever written.

Next season is set up to be a blast.
 
2012-12-17 09:36:44 AM
still ten times better than Walking Dead.

Not as good as Breaking Bad, though.
 
2012-12-17 09:40:09 AM
Am I the only one who has absolutely no problems with the creative direction of the show?
 
2012-12-17 09:46:09 AM

SlothB77: still ten times better than Walking Dead.


You'll probably catch hell for that 'round these parts, but it is nice to see someone else who doesn't think the Walking Dead is the GREATEST SHOW EVAR. I got 4 episodes into the first season and had to turn it off. The zombie stuff was pretty well done, but the "human drama" portions were so hackneyed and heavy-handed that I just couldn't keep watching it.
 
2012-12-17 09:48:19 AM
Great friggin show and good season finale, but no where near as good as Dexter's finale!!!
 
2012-12-17 09:55:03 AM

Teufelaffe: SlothB77: still ten times better than Walking Dead.

You'll probably catch hell for that 'round these parts, but it is nice to see someone else who doesn't think the Walking Dead is the GREATEST SHOW EVAR. I got 4 episodes into the first season and had to turn it off. The zombie stuff was pretty well done, but the "human drama" portions were so hackneyed and heavy-handed that I just couldn't keep watching it.


Fans of it recognize that the the video game of it is better at drama than the show. Season 1 was actually pretty good so if you couldn't get through that then it just wasn't your cup of tea. Season 2 was awful and I couldn't get through it. My gf watched it while I played games on the laptop, but Season 3 brought it back around to good.

/Can't wait to watch homeland. I need to just start it and get the gf hooked.
 
2012-12-17 09:56:05 AM

IamKaiserSoze!!!: If they had waited to watch last night's finale they would have seen one of the best season finale's ever written.


I thought it was terrible.

Every thirty seconds, the wife and I were asking, "Seriously??"

I felt like I was watching an SNL spoof of 24.
 
2012-12-17 09:59:03 AM

Teufelaffe: SlothB77: still ten times better than Walking Dead.

You'll probably catch hell for that 'round these parts, but it is nice to see someone else who doesn't think the Walking Dead is the GREATEST SHOW EVAR. I got 4 episodes into the first season and had to turn it off. The zombie stuff was pretty well done, but the "human drama" portions were so hackneyed and heavy-handed that I just couldn't keep watching it.


Don't worry Sons of Anarchy is still on.
 
2012-12-17 09:59:53 AM
He should've blown up the VP.
 
2012-12-17 10:10:32 AM
 
2012-12-17 10:24:57 AM
I haven't watched the Homeland episode from last night yet, but:

I loved the first season of Homeland. It felt like a very nuanced take on The War on Terror and played out both sides of the argument fairly well... but then the season finale happened and it felt like a show that would've worked well as a miniseries woke up and decided it needed to be a full series. It also proceeded to take a massive shiat on Carrie just so it had somewhere to go the next season.

Maybe it was because of Carrie being massively shiat on, but I've had a bad taste in my mouth about the current season almost the entire time. The show is still good on a very technical level (acting and directing in particular) and it knows how to end each episode interestingly enough for me to continue watching, but it feels like a less low-brow version of 24 or CSI. It feels like it has mostly ditched the nuance of the previous season and I can't really make out why Carrie is still interested in Brody. Despite more or less writing Brody's son out of the show, it also feels like anyone who is not Carrie, Brody or Sal is generally uninteresting.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills by seemingly being the only one who doesn't think this current season is nearly as good as the last one.


Krowdaddy Chixdiggit: but no where near as good as Dexter's finale!!!




Eh, I have mixed feelings about this one.

I actually really liked this season, but it was very oddly structured. Normally, the main theme is at the forefront (i.e. Ice Truck Killer, Trinity, Lumen, etc.), but this season's theme (Deb and Dexter's relationship after Deb finds out about Dexter) was in the background while a multitude of subplots (i.e. Hannah, Isaak Sirko, and Laguerta mostly) played out in the foreground. I guess it ended logically, but it felt like a lot was crammed into the last episode. Even though I liked the Sirko plot, it kind of felt like something that wasn't intended to be nearly as dominating on the show as it ended up being, which kind of made the last few post-Sirko episodes feel out of place from the rest of the season. 

I'm interested in where Dexter goes next, though I guess I'm skeptical that it'll be cleaned up well enough for what is suppose to be its final season next year.
 
2012-12-17 10:34:37 AM
Dar Adal did it.
 
2012-12-17 10:50:07 AM

Krowdaddy Chixdiggit: Great friggin show and good season finale, but no where near as good as Dexter's finale!!!


Hahaha. It's the TV show power rankings. All three are excellent and so are Breaking Bad amd Game of Thrones. Like football teams i guess it depends on the week on which is the best.
 
2012-12-17 11:14:14 AM

Slow To Return: IamKaiserSoze!!!: If they had waited to watch last night's finale they would have seen one of the best season finale's ever written.

I thought it was terrible.

Every thirty seconds, the wife and I were asking, "Seriously??"

I felt like I was watching an SNL spoof of 24.


No way it was pretty incredible. If I had Photoshop skills I'd make a million "oh my gerd" meme pictures about it.
 
2012-12-17 11:15:34 AM

elguerodiablo: If I had Photoshop skills I'd make a million "oh my gerd" meme pictures about it.


that's why quickmeme.com was invented.
 
2012-12-17 11:23:08 AM
I could tell before clicking this had to have been written before last night.
 
2012-12-17 11:29:05 AM

StoPPeRmobile: Teufelaffe: SlothB77: still ten times better than Walking Dead.

You'll probably catch hell for that 'round these parts, but it is nice to see someone else who doesn't think the Walking Dead is the GREATEST SHOW EVAR. I got 4 episodes into the first season and had to turn it off. The zombie stuff was pretty well done, but the "human drama" portions were so hackneyed and heavy-handed that I just couldn't keep watching it.

Don't worry Sons of Anarchy is still on.


That has to be the best show, with the weakest lead actors I've ever seen. A great supporting cast, but I cant stand Jax and the doctor lady.
 
2012-12-17 11:35:08 AM

Valacirca: I could tell before clicking this had to have been written before last night.




I haven't seen last night's episode, but TFA was fairly spot-on in how I felt about the current season. I do think this season does excel at having legitimately great scenes, of which I have no doubts last night's episode probably had a couple, but they seem to come at the expense of the rest of the episode or having to give the characters something to do because the writers don't really know what to do with them. I'm not really convinced that one episode will really make up for a fairly subpar season.
 
2012-12-17 12:17:33 PM
i90.photobucket.com

Don't watch the show, but is it the one where Claire Danes is always crying?

That would get old fast.
 
2012-12-17 12:23:27 PM
I actually thought Dexter was a little weak. I thought they could have come up with a more imaginative means of resolving that conflict.

Boardwalk Empire and Treme had great finales. Those show have just gotten stronger and stronger every year. Had to see Treme end next year.
 
2012-12-17 12:29:14 PM
I don't get the recent Homeland hate. I've loved this season. Dexter's the show that has gotten ridiculous.
 
2012-12-17 12:34:24 PM
I liked how both shows ended. Homeland shouldn't be compared to 24. If you watched 24 at all, you know how much of a joke it was. Homeland is nothing like that. They wrapped up a lot of the criticisms of the last few episodes pretty well last night.

Dexter also played on everyone's expectations and turned them around. I didn't really think the ending was that great, and it felt like they're going to go back to the terrible incest theme, but overall, the best season since 4. Loved the issac sirko subplot line.
 
2012-12-17 12:45:31 PM

justtray: I liked how both shows ended. Homeland shouldn't be compared to 24. If you watched 24 at all, you know how much of a joke it was. Homeland is nothing like that. They wrapped up a lot of the criticisms of the last few episodes pretty well last night.

Dexter also played on everyone's expectations and turned them around. I didn't really think the ending was that great, and it felt like they're going to go back to the terrible incest theme, but overall, the best season since 4. Loved the issac sirko subplot line.


Yeah, Titus Pullo meets Dexter.

Talk about a series that ended too quick.
 
2012-12-17 12:47:48 PM
As much as I liked what the writers did with large portions of the second season, the first season should have ended with Brody finishing the job. It would have been an excellent ending with plenty of aftermath to deal with in the second season. Anyways, one of my biggest gripes about the second season is that Carrie is never wrong and that there's no doubt that Carrie will be right. It seems every episode she breaks the plan with a hunch, Saul and the other guy tell her not to do what she's about to do (why they keep putting her out in the field is beyond me), and then she ends up being right once again. It'd be nice for her to be wrong every once in a while or for the show to at least make us doubt Carrie like in the first season.

/Still curious what Brody's son dark secret is
//Everyone else in the family was hiding something, so I assume he has one as well
 
kab
2012-12-17 01:02:38 PM

cman: Am I the only one who has absolutely no problems with the creative direction of the show?


No... no you aren't. Having Brody die at the end of season 1 would have been all good and well, but then the writers are left to start over with an entirely new premise that could be very hit or miss, when they already had some very good stuff going on.

If I want to see interesting characters get killed prematurely, I'll watch / read Game of Thrones.

/If they come out with the mole being anyone OTHER than Saul at this point, I'll have to yell.
//a better setup for season 3 would have been both Kerry and Brody being on the run, trying to prove innocence.. him being a wanted terrorist, and her being listed as an accomplice.
 
2012-12-17 01:13:26 PM

kab: /If they come out with the mole being anyone OTHER than Saul at this point, I'll have to yell. //a better setup for season 3 would have been both Kerry and Brody being on the run, trying to prove innocence.. him being a wanted terrorist, and her being listed as an accomplice.


Yea, I kind of figure it has to be Saul too at this point. And I also thought they would both be on the run, but I guess we'll have to see where it goes now.
 
2012-12-17 01:26:27 PM
kab: Having Brody die at the end of season 1 would have been all good and well, but then the writers are left to start over with an entirely new premise that could be very hit or miss, when they already had some very good stuff going on.

See: the last the two seasons of this show:

upload.wikimedia.org 

/Bitter like you wouldn't believe
//Wouldn't wish that on any show, including Two and a Half Men
 
2012-12-17 01:32:49 PM
My complaint about Homeland:

1) Too many "had Carrie only gotten there a minute earlier, placed a camera in another room, etc." moments. It's just lazy writing.

2) A lot of the situations are absurdly silly, such as the climax of Season 1.
 
2012-12-17 01:37:03 PM

kab: /If they come out with the mole being anyone OTHER than Saul at this point, I'll have to yell.


How would this be a good? Saul is one of the best characters on the show. That wouldn't even make sense.
 
kab
2012-12-17 01:50:36 PM

Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: kab: /If they come out with the mole being anyone OTHER than Saul at this point, I'll have to yell.

How would this be a good? Saul is one of the best characters on the show. That wouldn't even make sense.


It actually does make sense, unless they brought in some new *surprise!* character to pin it on, which would be incredibly cheap.
 
2012-12-17 01:55:51 PM
To me the weakest part of the show has got to be Brody's family (and why do they all call him Brody, even though his wife is a Brody? Would make a great drinking game. Drink when they say Brody, two drinks if the say Nick, Slam it if they say his full name). Really his family just consists of these broadly drawn stereotypes:

- questioning, bitter, but hot, wife
- angsty teen girl that can't really emote.
- clueless son

/Thought the show ending was weak: should have had them both on the run.
//Would have been CSB (Cool Story Brody)
///Brody
 
2012-12-17 01:58:37 PM

kab: Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: kab: /If they come out with the mole being anyone OTHER than Saul at this point, I'll have to yell.

How would this be a good? Saul is one of the best characters on the show. That wouldn't even make sense.

It actually does make sense, unless they brought in some new *surprise!* character to pin it on, which would be incredibly cheap.


In that respect I don't think either make sense. Nothing in Saul's character or actions has even hinted at him being a mole (unless I'm missing something). Revealing him to be the mole would come out of no where in the same sense as pinning it on some character we're unaware of at this point. They could possibly still tie it to Brody. Or maybe Dar Adal and his black ops background. Or maybe the writers have written themselves into a corner in regards to the mole. I just don't see a way they could make it Saul without it being an f you to everything we've seen so far.
 
2012-12-17 02:10:53 PM
I didn't even like season 1, except for seeing Morena Baccarin's boobs.
 
kab
2012-12-17 02:27:32 PM

Joey Jo Jo Jr Shabadu: In that respect I don't think either make sense. Nothing in Saul's character or actions has even hinted at him being a mole (unless I'm missing something). Revealing him to be the mole would come out of no where in the same sense as pinning it on some character we're unaware of at this point.


Among some other details, he was present for the suicides of 2 witnesses (for one it was never revealed who passed him the metal), and who else would have had the combination to the safe in David's office?

If it turns out to indeed be him, it would make sense for him to want Carrie close to him, since he knows she has the intuition to eventually figure out what's going on.

RyansPrivates: - questioning, bitter, but hot, wife


Bolded for truthiness.
 
2012-12-17 02:36:57 PM
Sophomore attempt not as good as freshman?

Also, that finale was 100% unexpected and the final scenes were like "whoa"

The only complaint I have about this season is the annoying daughter and her whole story line. I started to skip forward through her scenes. Pointless. 24 had the same thing in season 1, but it turned out integral to the whole story line. Plus Elisha Cuthbert > whatsername.

Also, the wife character is getting a little tiresome. But, you know - boobies.
 
2012-12-17 02:37:20 PM
There are no problems with Homeland! Don't ruin it for me!
 
2012-12-17 02:40:35 PM

hammettman: [i90.photobucket.com image 510x317]

Don't watch the show, but is it the one where Claire Danes is always crying?


No, it's the show where Claire Danes opens her eyes REAL wide, and looks like somebody just farted directly in her face, in order to convey every emotion from surprise, to shock, to sadness, to bewilderment, and even caring affection at one point, I think. I blame the director for not telling her to stop looking like that.

Best line so far (Saul to Carrie): "You are the smartest and dumbest farking person I've ever met."


Oh, and Dexter? (mostly spoiler-free) - they better have disposed of both bodies at the end of the episode...because if they try to pretend that even the simplest forensics would not immediately put both their asses in prison next season then they have badly jumped the shark.
 
2012-12-17 02:42:23 PM

burndtdan: I didn't even like season 1, except for seeing Morena Baccarin's boobs.


They're real and they're spectacular.
 
2012-12-17 02:47:03 PM

DontMakeMeComeBackThere: Oh, and Dexter? (mostly spoiler-free) - they better have disposed of both bodies at the end of the episode...because if they try to pretend that even the simplest forensics would not immediately put both their asses in prison next season then they have badly jumped the shark.


(There be spoilers here):
I can think of one plausible theory that would keep them free without having to chop 'em:



Deb called for LaGuerta's whereabouts, merely to find out why she wasn't at the party.
She finds out where she is going and goes to intercept, thinking she is still trying to frame one of her officers (Dexter)
Comes upon Laguerta killing Estrada (to set up a scene to frame Dexter) and has to fire her own gun in defense after Laguerta turns toward her
 
2012-12-17 02:56:42 PM

kab: Among some other details, he was present for the suicides of 2 witnesses (for one it was never revealed who passed him the metal), and who else would have had the combination to the safe in David's office?

If it turns out to indeed be him, it would make sense for him to want Carrie close to him, since he knows she has the intuition to eventually figure out what's going on.


I don't really put much stock into the Aileen suicide. In the big picture she was a lowly pawn with no real information. I think you can pin the first on on Brody. He was still a soldier for the cause at that point.

Regardless, has there been any other evidence whatsoever that Saul could be a mole? Have we been privy to any motivation as to why he would be helping the other side? In order to pull that off, then the writers will have to invent some backstory that we haven't heard anything about yet. And to do that to a main character that we've known for 2 full seasons would be cheap.
 
2012-12-17 03:14:10 PM

RyansPrivates: DontMakeMeComeBackThere: Oh, and Dexter? (mostly spoiler-free) - they better have disposed of both bodies at the end of the episode...because if they try to pretend that even the simplest forensics would not immediately put both their asses in prison next season then they have badly jumped the shark.

(There be spoilers here):
I can think of one plausible theory that would keep them free without having to chop 'em:



Deb called for LaGuerta's whereabouts, merely to find out why she wasn't at the party.
She finds out where she is going and goes to intercept, thinking she is still trying to frame one of her officers (Dexter)
Comes upon Laguerta killing Estrada (to set up a scene to frame Dexter) and has to fire her own gun in defense after Laguerta turns toward her


Ehh, except it looked like Deb went back to the party to establish an alibi rather than call for backup to the scene.

/Homeland is awesome
//Damien Lewis doesn't get enough credit
 
2012-12-17 03:54:31 PM
Homeland is excellent - even if it stretches credibility at times, it remains incredibly compelling. The interrogation in "Q&A" is one of the best things shown on TV, not just this year but maybe for the past decade.
 
2012-12-17 04:12:47 PM
Galvez is still the mole.
 
2012-12-17 04:13:47 PM

RyansPrivates: DontMakeMeComeBackThere: Oh, and Dexter? (mostly spoiler-free) - they better have disposed of both bodies at the end of the episode...because if they try to pretend that even the simplest forensics would not immediately put both their asses in prison next season then they have badly jumped the shark.

(There be spoilers here):
I can think of one plausible theory that would keep them free without having to chop 'em:



Deb called for LaGuerta's whereabouts, merely to find out why she wasn't at the party.
She finds out where she is going and goes to intercept, thinking she is still trying to frame one of her officers (Dexter)
Comes upon Laguerta killing Estrada (to set up a scene to frame Dexter) and has to fire her own gun in defense after Laguerta turns toward her


Hmm. I was wondering how they'd get around the obvious forensics report issue. This could be plauable. Seems the most likely at the moment.
 
2012-12-17 04:44:34 PM

Teufelaffe: SlothB77: still ten times better than Walking Dead.

You'll probably catch hell for that 'round these parts, but it is nice to see someone else who doesn't think the Walking Dead is the GREATEST SHOW EVAR. I got 4 episodes into the first season and had to turn it off. The zombie stuff was pretty well done, but the "human drama" portions were so hackneyed and heavy-handed that I just couldn't keep watching it.


As someone who's been in every TWD thread ever... No one thinks it's the GREATEST SHOW EVAR. In fact, it's universally complained about, there are gripes about everything, yet we can't stop watching it. So, I don't know what you're talking about.
 
2012-12-17 05:05:51 PM
Warning: herein be spoilers for last night's finale:

Season 1 was terrific. The "is he or isn't he a terrorist" tension was the heart of the show. Part of what has made Season 2 increasingly, well, dull (and you know the Dana hit-and-run subplot is partly a distraction from the weakening central core of the show) is that we seemed to have our answer. After a profoundly ho-hum first half, last night's finale was brilliant because it threw us right back to square one. Oh, and cause it got rid of Estes. Fark that guy.
 
2012-12-17 05:20:19 PM
Quinn was such a bad ass last night.
 
2012-12-17 05:46:20 PM
Homeland can be great but it has the same problem as Sons of Anarchy and OZ, back in the day. You're cruising along, invested in the characters and the situation, then the writers just pull some ridiculous BS out of their ass and you can either accept it and move on or throw a beer can at your TV. I'm quite sure I know nothing more about real-life biker gangs or prisoners or CIA terrorism analysts from watching any of these shows.

I still watch though, cause sometimes it's terrific. They should have killed Brody ages ago though.
 
2012-12-17 05:48:32 PM

Popcorn Johnny: Quinn was such a bad ass last night.


Great scene with Estes.

He''ll be back in a big way next season.

I'm assuming Saul already knows this was a setup and am wondering if Quinn will come to that conclusion quickly as well.

OTOH, I could be full of shiate and both Saul and Quinn will go after Brody big time.

Either way, I hope we can drop brody's family altogether.

and no more cabin scenes please.
 
2012-12-17 05:49:37 PM

IamKaiserSoze!!!: Either way, I hope we can drop brody's family altogether.


I'm still okay with the occasional Morena Baccarin nude scene
 
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